2017-10-01T00:04:33Z n_blownapart joined #scheme 2017-10-01T00:04:53Z n_blownapart is now known as crucify_me 2017-10-01T00:28:31Z daviid joined #scheme 2017-10-01T00:29:31Z ZombieChicken quit (Disconnected by services) 2017-10-01T00:29:38Z forgottenwizard joined #scheme 2017-10-01T00:39:35Z reich_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-01T01:03:02Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-01T01:27:59Z Steverman quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-01T01:28:59Z crucify_me quit 2017-10-01T01:46:39Z hotbobby joined #scheme 2017-10-01T01:50:21Z groovy2shoes joined #scheme 2017-10-01T02:11:46Z ArneBab_ joined #scheme 2017-10-01T02:15:52Z ArneBab quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-01T02:17:25Z hel-io_ joined #scheme 2017-10-01T02:20:19Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-10-01T02:21:17Z hotbobby: how can i define a local variable and increment it? 2017-10-01T02:21:34Z hotbobby: im looking to keep track of a result and ++ it when something happens 2017-10-01T02:23:11Z hotbobby: i guess i can just (+ 1 var) but looking online things like incf and add1 dont work 2017-10-01T02:24:35Z ertes joined #scheme 2017-10-01T02:26:35Z pjb: in r5rs, it would be: (let ((i 1)) (set! i (+ i 1)) i) 2017-10-01T02:27:15Z pjb: hotbobby: type /topic 2017-10-01T02:31:26Z hel-io_ quit 2017-10-01T02:36:22Z hotbobby: thank you! very helpful ! i will never need to ask anything else! i just need to sit through all these lectures my answers in there somewhere~ 2017-10-01T02:37:54Z hel-io joined #scheme 2017-10-01T02:46:04Z jcowan__ joined #scheme 2017-10-01T02:49:01Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-01T03:25:56Z hotbobby: I am trying to sum the third "column" of list test1, can someone help me see the error in my (patients-with-test1) function? 2017-10-01T03:26:09Z hotbobby: https://pastebin.com/raw/Ap7fpY3E the answer should be 4, but i'm getting 1 2017-10-01T03:33:42Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-01T03:57:27Z jcowan__: hotbobby: How do you invoke patients-with-test1 2017-10-01T03:57:40Z hotbobby: (patients-with-test1 (test1)) 2017-10-01T03:57:41Z hotbobby: jcowan__: 2017-10-01T03:57:48Z jcowan__ is now known as jcowan 2017-10-01T03:58:50Z hotbobby: my main goal is to sum all of column 3 of the list test1, so i should return 4 2017-10-01T03:59:01Z hotbobby: i am curious if there are any better ways to do this without a golbal variable or something of the like 2017-10-01T04:00:20Z jcowan: Oh yes. But I'm trying to figure out why the code you are using doesn't work, and I don't know how you call it. 2017-10-01T04:02:45Z hotbobby: yeah i just call it (patients-with-test1 (test1)) 2017-10-01T04:05:41Z jcowan: okay. Your problem is that in the second arm of the cond, you increment the global variable but you don't reinvoke the procedure, so it falls out the bottom of the cond and terminates without ever examining any more of L. 2017-10-01T04:06:24Z hotbobby: i thought all i needed to do was the recursive else step to recall the function with the remainder of the list 2017-10-01T04:06:35Z hotbobby: where do i recall the procedure? 2017-10-01T04:06:58Z jcowan: You need to make sure that the procedure is reinvoked in both arms of the conditional (not counting the termination case, of course) 2017-10-01T04:07:29Z hotbobby: oh, so im missing the false condition 2017-10-01T04:07:39Z hotbobby: where i just do not increment the variable 2017-10-01T04:07:57Z jcowan: No, that part is actually correct. It's the true condition where you don't iterate. 2017-10-01T04:08:46Z jcowan: So you execute the true condition just once and then exit. 2017-10-01T04:09:21Z jcowan: Hence the global variable can never be more than 1 2017-10-01T04:11:19Z hotbobby: i dont understand why the true condition isnt built into the else 2017-10-01T04:11:43Z hotbobby: can you help me understand at what state it is at when it sets the global var = 1 and then exits 2017-10-01T04:12:11Z jcowan: You enter the procedure. Then you do a cond test: is L null? No, so carry on with the next arm. 2017-10-01T04:12:45Z jcowan: Is (listref (car L) 2) = to 1? Yes. So increment the global and that's all for the cond. 2017-10-01T04:12:55Z jcowan: And there is nothing else to do, so the procedure exits. 2017-10-01T04:14:02Z hotbobby: should i call (patients-with-test1 (cdr L)) right after i increment the global variable then? 2017-10-01T04:14:09Z jcowan: Yes. 2017-10-01T04:14:22Z hotbobby: i see! thank you for your help 2017-10-01T04:14:30Z hel-io quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-01T04:15:05Z hel-io joined #scheme 2017-10-01T04:16:14Z jcowan: However, this is not only not very Schemey, it also will give the wrong answer if you call patients-with-test1 more than once. 2017-10-01T04:16:27Z jcowan: Are you familiar with (let loop ...) yet? 2017-10-01T04:16:37Z hotbobby: i can look up the construct 2017-10-01T04:17:02Z hotbobby: i also had that concern, i would have to keep resetting hte global variable 2017-10-01T04:17:08Z jcowan: Well, let's use an auxiliary procedure instead: it's equivalent and it's easier to understand. 2017-10-01T04:18:36Z jcowan: We can write a procedure called patients-with-test1-helper. 2017-10-01T04:18:49Z jcowan: This will take two arguments, L and the number of patients seen so far. 2017-10-01T04:18:51Z jcowan: so 2017-10-01T04:19:03Z jcowan: (define (patients-with-test1-helper L count) 2017-10-01T04:19:15Z jcowan: ; and then it will have a similar three-way conditional 2017-10-01T04:19:17Z jcowan: (cond 2017-10-01T04:19:34Z jcowan: ((null? L) count) ; returns the current count, no iteration 2017-10-01T04:20:02Z hel-io quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-01T04:20:20Z jcowan: ((= (list-ref (car L) 2) 1) (patients-with-test-helper (cdr L) (+ 1 count))) ; true conditional, adds 1 to count argument 2017-10-01T04:20:39Z jcowan: (else (patients-with-test-helper (cdr L) count)))) 2017-10-01T04:20:46Z jcowan: Okay, you see how that works? 2017-10-01T04:21:12Z hotbobby: oh yes! that is much simpler 2017-10-01T04:21:18Z MrBismuth joined #scheme 2017-10-01T04:21:19Z jcowan: THen you invoke it with: 2017-10-01T04:21:27Z hotbobby: you are using a local variable so it doesnt have to be reset, as well 2017-10-01T04:21:33Z jcowan: (define (patients-with-test1 (patients-with-test-helper L 0)) 2017-10-01T04:21:35Z jcowan: ) 2017-10-01T04:22:06Z jcowan: In Scheme we never put ) on a line by itself (except when we make a typo, like I just did) 2017-10-01T04:23:13Z jcowan: You can also generalize it by adding a third argument test-number and using (- test-number 1) instead of a literal value 2 2017-10-01T04:24:05Z MrBusiness quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-01T04:29:57Z hotbobby: so im supposed to have my original function, too? 2017-10-01T04:31:44Z jcowan: See definition of patients-with-test1 a few lines back 2017-10-01T04:32:19Z hotbobby: OH that explains the error 2017-10-01T04:32:24Z hotbobby: i didnt realize it was being defined twice 2017-10-01T04:32:46Z jcowan: you can scrap increment, decrement, and the global variable too 2017-10-01T04:33:10Z hotbobby: sorry this is my first go at this stuff i really appreciate your help 2017-10-01T04:35:05Z jcowan: `Sure, no problem. It's a new way of thinking. 2017-10-01T04:35:12Z marvin2 quit 2017-10-01T04:38:51Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-01T04:46:31Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-01T05:01:39Z hotbobby: jcowan: sorry to bother you ive been messing with it since and i havent been able to get it to work 2017-10-01T05:01:41Z hotbobby: https://pastebin.ca/raw/3880539 2017-10-01T05:01:53Z hotbobby: syntax-violation: ill-formed definition [syntax-rules] 2017-10-01T05:01:54Z hotbobby: (#{name define} (patients-with-test1 (patients-with-test1-helper l 0))) 2017-10-01T05:02:24Z jcowan: "invalid post ID"; you screwed up the URL 2017-10-01T05:02:40Z hotbobby: hmm really? 2017-10-01T05:02:44Z hotbobby: https://pastebin.ca/3880539 works for me 2017-10-01T05:03:04Z jcowan: okay, works now 2017-10-01T05:03:29Z jcowan: Yeah, when I wrote that I had a brain fart (it's 1 AM here) 2017-10-01T05:03:49Z jcowan: should be, of course (define (patients-with-test1 L) (patients-with-test1-helper L 0)) 2017-10-01T05:04:39Z ddp joined #scheme 2017-10-01T05:04:53Z hotbobby: is there something wrong with the test1-helper definition as well? 2017-10-01T05:04:59Z hotbobby: i cant see anything but i get the same error for line 3 2017-10-01T05:05:47Z jcowan: missing left paren before patients-with-test1-helper 2017-10-01T05:05:55Z jcowan: and redundant right paren in line 8 2017-10-01T05:06:01Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-01T05:06:24Z hotbobby: you dont need to close cond statements? 2017-10-01T05:08:38Z ddp quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-01T05:17:00Z hotbobby: wow it took a while but ive got it working 2017-10-01T05:17:02Z jcowan: Oh, you do. 2017-10-01T05:17:21Z hotbobby: yeah i didnt realize which parenthesis you were talking about until i went through it some more 2017-10-01T05:17:24Z jcowan: But just because your parens are balanced doesn't mean they are in the right places. 2017-10-01T05:18:57Z hotbobby: i was wondering if you could elaborate on the idea of a helper function really quickly, from my understanding the "regular" patients-with-test1 function serves only as a way to call the helper with specified bounds (start count at 0)? 2017-10-01T05:20:08Z taof joined #scheme 2017-10-01T05:23:14Z hotbobby: how would i express a condition where i wanted to check two tests at the same time? like if test1 && test2? sorry for all the questions ;( 2017-10-01T05:24:32Z taof quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-01T05:30:07Z Blukunfando quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-01T05:31:56Z saki joined #scheme 2017-10-01T05:37:43Z Blukunfando joined #scheme 2017-10-01T05:46:02Z saki quit (Quit: saki) 2017-10-01T05:55:36Z saki joined #scheme 2017-10-01T06:06:16Z wasamasa: hotbobby: you use (and (test1) (test2)) 2017-10-01T06:06:47Z jmd joined #scheme 2017-10-01T06:12:06Z hotbobby: yes ! thank you wasa masa 2017-10-01T06:14:50Z lritter joined #scheme 2017-10-01T06:27:39Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-01T06:32:57Z ertes quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-01T06:48:45Z ertes joined #scheme 2017-10-01T06:48:47Z jcowan: hotbobby: The point is that you don't want the user to have to know about the second argument. 2017-10-01T07:04:51Z hotbobby: with scheme i am aware there is a difference between "abcd" (abcd) and abcd when considering these if statements i wrote, how can i get just abcd no "" or () 2017-10-01T07:04:52Z hotbobby: https://pastebin.com/raw/PNBr5XTt 2017-10-01T07:05:36Z hotbobby: when i say `(test1) , it gets (list . .)'d together with a bunch of other stuff and becomes ( . . (test1)) 2017-10-01T07:05:52Z hotbobby: i just want ( . . test1 ), is there any way to specify that? 2017-10-01T07:10:15Z hotbobby: apparently what i am looking for is (quote abcd) 2017-10-01T07:10:23Z hotbobby: but how is that any different than `(abcd) !! 2017-10-01T07:10:33Z hotbobby: thanks for the help all. i learned a lot here. 2017-10-01T07:22:24Z lambda-11235 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9) 2017-10-01T07:38:09Z saki quit (Quit: saki) 2017-10-01T08:32:26Z jmd left #scheme 2017-10-01T08:51:00Z jcowan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-01T08:51:33Z jcowan joined #scheme 2017-10-01T09:08:00Z jcowan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-01T09:08:32Z jcowan joined #scheme 2017-10-01T09:17:52Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-01T09:19:59Z jcowan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-01T09:20:24Z jcowan joined #scheme 2017-10-01T09:22:00Z jcowan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-01T09:22:39Z tessier quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 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`x). in these cases, the procedure "list" is applied to the symbol x, again yielding a linked-list with the element x 2017-10-01T10:52:34Z taylan: hotbobby: if you know other programming languages, imagine that "quote" (and the shorthands ' and `) let you write a literal list expression, similar to e.g. [x, y, z] in other languages, whereas calling the procedure "list" is like calling an object constructor, like make_list(x, y, z) 2017-10-01T10:53:46Z taylan: "quote" is not a procedure (or "function" as other languages would call it) but rather a so-called "special form" in Scheme. part of the core syntax of the language. 2017-10-01T10:54:53Z pjb: ` doesn't produce a literal! 2017-10-01T10:55:06Z pjb: (let ((a 1) (b 2)) `(,a ,b)) #| --> (1 2) |# 2017-10-01T10:55:29Z pjb: never use ` unless you want to use comma (or comma-at). 2017-10-01T10:55:47Z pjb: (let ((a 1) (b 2) (c '(a b c))) `(,a ,@c ,b)) #| --> (1 a b c 2) |# 2017-10-01T11:07:39Z carleos joined #scheme 2017-10-01T11:17:02Z 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A record type you can put n the calling position? 2017-10-01T22:06:00Z wasamasa: http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/callable-data-structures 2017-10-01T22:06:14Z wasamasa: »"Callable" data structures are actually special procedures that internally hold a data structure.« 2017-10-01T22:06:41Z wasamasa: if you use something along the lines of srfi-99 records, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to do that 2017-10-01T22:08:14Z vicenteH joined #scheme 2017-10-01T22:08:48Z Niinanmustakyrpa: wasamasa, well yeah you can alays just make a lambda itself but mymain thing is the tag, like that (foo-record? x) works on it and (x bar) works as well 2017-10-01T22:09:05Z Niinanmustakyrpa: If you wrap itin a lambda then only (procedure? x) orks on it 2017-10-01T22:09:29Z wasamasa: I still don't see the issue with that 2017-10-01T22:09:39Z wasamasa: the callable-data-structures egg proves it's possible 2017-10-01T22:10:07Z wasamasa: how you do the internal representation to allow for a smarter predicate is up to you 2017-10-01T22:10:39Z Niinanmustakyrpa: Hmm, I guess I can create a unique datum in memory and have the function respond in someway by it being passed as argument and not exporting it 2017-10-01T22:10:42Z Niinanmustakyrpa: Yeah that orks I guess 2017-10-01T22:10:55Z wasamasa: if your requirement is for the self-callable record type to be a distinct type from all the others, no, that won't work without ugly hacks 2017-10-01T22:13:29Z Niinanmustakyrpa: Nono,you actually convincedmealready. 2017-10-01T22:17:46Z fadein joined #scheme 2017-10-01T22:19:02Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-01T22:22:48Z jcowan__ joined #scheme 2017-10-01T22:24:28Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-01T22:32:19Z Niinanmustakyrpa left #scheme 2017-10-01T22:44:54Z wigust joined #scheme 2017-10-01T22:48:36Z ddp quit (Quit: ddp) 2017-10-01T22:53:50Z reich joined #scheme 2017-10-01T22:58:48Z ddp joined #scheme 2017-10-01T22:59:04Z ddp quit (Client Quit) 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2017-10-02T11:26:21Z Niinanmustakyrpa: Is there some procedure that can be used to check if an identifier syntax object is bound to anything at all within a given context? 2017-10-02T11:27:18Z ecraven: not in the standard 2017-10-02T11:27:43Z ecraven: you might try (with-exception-handler ... (lambda () (eval 'symbol ..environment..))) and check whether you get back an error 2017-10-02T11:27:49Z ecraven: but that's quite a convoluted way of checking :-/ 2017-10-02T11:28:21Z Niinanmustakyrpa: I don't think that orks at macro time either hmm 2017-10-02T12:08:15Z groovy2shoes quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-02T12:46:38Z acarrico joined #scheme 2017-10-02T13:12:19Z Riastradh: Niinanmustakyrpa: What would you do with such a thing? 2017-10-02T13:13:38Z Steverman joined #scheme 2017-10-02T13:14:21Z Niinanmustakyrpa: Riastradh, base case for recursion esentially. I have a macro which redefines a bindng in termsof what the binding already has but f the binding doesn't yet exit it should just treat it as if it werebound to the identity functionbasically 2017-10-02T13:14:50Z Riastradh: Can you be more specific? 2017-10-02T13:15:06Z Riastradh: What do you hope to accomplish with this macro? 2017-10-02T13:17:02Z Niinanmustakyrpa: Riastradh, inthis case implementing a CLOS like multiple dispatch system for fun. 2017-10-02T13:17:38Z Niinanmustakyrpa: My version of (define-method ...) just rebinds the identifier to which themethod is bound to a new vesion that internally references the oldone 2017-10-02T13:17:40Z Riastradh: OK. The standard toy one version of that is Tiny-CLOS, which uses no macros at all. Can you connect this CLOS-like multiple dispatch system to the problem you're encountering with macros? 2017-10-02T13:21:17Z ecraven: Niinanmustakyrpa: every Scheme has a way to find what is bound. if you don't want to write portable code, it shouldn't be hard 2017-10-02T13:21:44Z Riastradh: I'm a little more concerned that this is a nonsensical operation that will lead you into the weeds. 2017-10-02T13:25:02Z Niinanmustakyrpa: Riastradh,it seemsrather sensible during macro expansion if only to provide clearer error reporting during expansion time. 2017-10-02T13:25:25Z Niinanmustakyrpa: Elseyou get the "unbound identifier" from the expandedform which often nolonger resembles the original. 2017-10-02T13:30:50Z forgottenwizard quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-02T13:31:29Z forgottenwizard joined #scheme 2017-10-02T13:31:42Z ecraven: Niinanmustakyrpa: the question here is whether it is actually a good idea to write macros that conditionally introduce new names 2017-10-02T13:31:54Z ecraven: historically, Scheme has answered this question with "no" 2017-10-02T13:32:19Z Riastradh: Niinanmustakyrpa: You should have one operation that *introduces* a definition of a name, and separate operations to modify the object that it refers to. 2017-10-02T13:33:33Z jcowan: ecraven: I don't think Larceny has any such hack 2017-10-02T13:35:10Z Niinanmustakyrpa: ecraven, well this is exactly what GOOPS does. If you (define-method (name ...)) there and it is unbod it introduces the binding 2017-10-02T13:35:17Z Niinanmustakyrpa: Else it modifies the one in scope 2017-10-02T13:35:30Z ecraven: Niinanmustakyrpa: indeed, that is very CLish, imho 2017-10-02T13:35:46Z ecraven: Scheme systems have to my knowledge preferred (define-generic-function name) (define-method ...) 2017-10-02T13:35:58Z Niinanmustakyrpa: But it uses set!, I want to shadow it I guess. 2017-10-02T13:36:05Z ecraven: not saying it isn't more convenient, just that Scheme has not done this a lot in the past 2017-10-02T13:36:11Z Niinanmustakyrpa: Well that's what I currently use, I mean it s no big deal, just a quality of life thing 2017-10-02T13:36:23Z Niinanmustakyrpa: THat it's required that you bind it first. 2017-10-02T13:36:56Z ecraven: jcowan: surely larceny must have a method that checks whether some name is bound in the global environment? 2017-10-02T13:37:04Z ecraven: probably not exposed by default 2017-10-02T13:38:28Z ecraven: lib/R6Rs/r6rs-expander.sch, line 570 defines (binding id), ;; Returns | #f if unbound. 2017-10-02T13:41:36Z jcowan: That must refer to identifiers in macros 2017-10-02T13:42:05Z jcowan: But there does seem to be an (unexposed) proc `environment-variable?` 2017-10-02T13:42:40Z jim quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-02T13:42:44Z jcowan: @#$* and again !#$@. 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right? 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2017-10-03T05:30:27Z Ober: you could thread-create inside the lambda to map 2017-10-03T05:39:19Z ecraven: Niinanmustakyrpa: not portably, I think 2017-10-03T05:50:35Z lambda-11235 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-03T05:51:26Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2017-10-03T05:56:49Z turbofail quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T05:58:28Z nilg: thanks Ober 2017-10-03T06:00:13Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-03T06:05:45Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2017-10-03T06:12:46Z saki joined #scheme 2017-10-03T06:27:56Z pjb joined #scheme 2017-10-03T06:31:04Z arbv quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-03T06:31:14Z arbv_ joined #scheme 2017-10-03T06:31:30Z arbv_ is now known as arbv 2017-10-03T06:33:08Z sz0 joined #scheme 2017-10-03T06:36:34Z lambda-11235 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-03T06:47:57Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-03T06:51:45Z murii joined #scheme 2017-10-03T07:00:05Z murii quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-03T07:11:57Z Niinanmustakyrpa left #scheme 2017-10-03T07:16:17Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-03T07:22:53Z nilg: actually there par-map, see https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Parallel-Forms.html 2017-10-03T07:34:24Z joast quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-03T07:40:39Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-03T07:45:47Z pie_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-03T07:51:53Z lritter joined #scheme 2017-10-03T08:05:37Z murii joined #scheme 2017-10-03T08:37:13Z arbv quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-03T08:44:54Z arbv joined #scheme 2017-10-03T08:47:35Z ejt: is there a srfi that has all?, some? and none? list predicates in? 2017-10-03T08:47:50Z ejt: (I know they're trivial to write) 2017-10-03T09:03:15Z wasamasa: all and some should be part of srfi-1 2017-10-03T09:03:51Z wasamasa: they're known as every/any 2017-10-03T09:04:12Z wasamasa: not nearly as trivial to write for the generalized case of multiple lists 2017-10-03T09:12:56Z ejt: thx 2017-10-03T09:13:26Z wasamasa: as for none, isn't that negation of any? 2017-10-03T09:13:47Z ejt: indeed 2017-10-03T09:18:30Z nilg quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T09:21:17Z jmd joined #scheme 2017-10-03T09:29:27Z civodul joined #scheme 2017-10-03T09:30:14Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2017-10-03T09:32:35Z terpri joined #scheme 2017-10-03T09:45:40Z arbv quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-03T09:48:35Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-03T09:54:51Z saki quit (Quit: saki) 2017-10-03T09:55:01Z arbv joined #scheme 2017-10-03T09:55:02Z terpri joined #scheme 2017-10-03T10:00:26Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-03T10:01:34Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-03T10:12:56Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-03T10:14:08Z araujo joined #scheme 2017-10-03T10:14:08Z araujo quit (Changing host) 2017-10-03T10:14:08Z araujo joined #scheme 2017-10-03T10:27:16Z terpri joined #scheme 2017-10-03T10:27:29Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T10:27:44Z terpri joined #scheme 2017-10-03T10:34:11Z Steverman joined #scheme 2017-10-03T10:38:41Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-03T10:55:27Z araujo joined #scheme 2017-10-03T10:55:27Z araujo quit (Changing host) 2017-10-03T10:55:27Z araujo joined #scheme 2017-10-03T11:09:08Z leppie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-03T11:13:33Z leppie joined #scheme 2017-10-03T11:15:16Z DKordic quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2017-10-03T11:23:56Z lolcow joined #scheme 2017-10-03T11:24:15Z leppie quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-03T11:27:20Z marvin2 joined #scheme 2017-10-03T11:57:19Z pie_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-03T12:07:28Z LeoNerd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T12:07:29Z Steverman quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-03T12:12:19Z cemerick joined #scheme 2017-10-03T12:13:44Z jcowan joined #scheme 2017-10-03T12:16:17Z BitPuffin|osx joined #scheme 2017-10-03T12:33:47Z LeoNerd joined #scheme 2017-10-03T12:42:48Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-03T12:48:05Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-03T12:48:16Z jcob joined #scheme 2017-10-03T12:49:41Z jcowan joined #scheme 2017-10-03T12:49:53Z drduck quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-03T12:55:18Z acarrico joined #scheme 2017-10-03T13:03:48Z joast joined #scheme 2017-10-03T13:07:14Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T13:09:29Z hel-io joined #scheme 2017-10-03T13:26:05Z owickstrom quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-03T13:27:54Z owickstrom joined #scheme 2017-10-03T13:28:40Z murii quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T13:32:02Z hel-io quit 2017-10-03T13:35:56Z Steverman joined #scheme 2017-10-03T13:39:26Z Lowl3v3l quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2017-10-03T13:47:35Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-03T13:54:45Z benq joined #scheme 2017-10-03T14:06:53Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-03T14:10:03Z jcob quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T14:10:31Z terpri joined #scheme 2017-10-03T14:15:27Z dbmikus joined #scheme 2017-10-03T14:16:31Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-03T14:16:46Z Tirisler joined #scheme 2017-10-03T14:16:56Z jcob joined #scheme 2017-10-03T14:19:54Z terpri joined #scheme 2017-10-03T14:20:51Z jcob quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T14:24:08Z Murii|linux joined #scheme 2017-10-03T14:25:24Z jcob joined #scheme 2017-10-03T14:31:26Z black_13 joined #scheme 2017-10-03T14:33:20Z black_13: is there a channel that would discuss lambda functions and church's theory 2017-10-03T14:35:21Z wasamasa: only one way to find out 2017-10-03T14:36:37Z black_13: i want to better understand what lambda is or church's lambda is can a language (lisp/scheme) demonstrate that 2017-10-03T14:37:00Z wasamasa: scheme just happens to be an implementation of lambda calculus :> 2017-10-03T14:38:27Z black_13: crap 2017-10-03T14:40:26Z Tirisler quit (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) 2017-10-03T14:44:49Z dbmikus quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-03T14:45:10Z dbmikus joined #scheme 2017-10-03T14:48:05Z aeth: keywords to look for are 'programming language theory' and 'comp sci' 2017-10-03T14:48:32Z aeth: There is a ##cs 2017-10-03T14:48:46Z wasamasa: there are papers 2017-10-03T14:50:25Z wasamasa: I can recommend against ##programming 2017-10-03T14:50:26Z jcob quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.0.50)) 2017-10-03T14:51:13Z jcob joined #scheme 2017-10-03T14:53:55Z jcob quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-03T14:55:22Z edgar-rft doesn't go to church and that's not a theory 2017-10-03T14:55:31Z jcob joined #scheme 2017-10-03T14:55:55Z jcob quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-03T14:58:23Z jcob joined #scheme 2017-10-03T15:00:33Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-03T15:02:33Z pie_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T15:02:52Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-03T15:06:39Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-03T15:07:13Z black_13: wasamasa: thanks 2017-10-03T15:08:05Z black_13: can an existing language be used as a companion to demonstrate lamba if that makes sense 2017-10-03T15:08:27Z wasamasa: no, we just use lambdas in our code for fun 2017-10-03T15:08:36Z black_13: ha! 2017-10-03T15:08:45Z wasamasa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FITJMJjASUs 2017-10-03T15:09:00Z spudinski: (lamda (llama) duck) 2017-10-03T15:09:16Z wasamasa: lambada 2017-10-03T15:10:24Z wasamasa: I think the above talk demostrates just what you can do with lambdas, even in a language like ruby 2017-10-03T15:10:25Z pie_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-03T15:11:51Z wasamasa: it also explains turing machines and all that stuff 2017-10-03T15:12:36Z Tirisler joined #scheme 2017-10-03T15:17:27Z NingaLeaf joined #scheme 2017-10-03T15:27:23Z jcowan_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-03T15:27:59Z jcob quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T15:28:24Z jcowan_ joined #scheme 2017-10-03T15:35:09Z teurastaja joined #scheme 2017-10-03T15:36:44Z smazga joined #scheme 2017-10-03T15:38:26Z danly joined #scheme 2017-10-03T15:41:53Z jcob joined #scheme 2017-10-03T15:45:29Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-03T15:53:59Z stee_3 joined #scheme 2017-10-03T15:56:57Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-03T15:57:35Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.3.1)) 2017-10-03T16:07:20Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2017-10-03T16:17:03Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-03T16:22:29Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-03T16:29:04Z marcux joined #scheme 2017-10-03T16:37:48Z marcux quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T16:57:58Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-03T17:07:45Z acarrico quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-03T17:13:04Z Tirisler quit (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) 2017-10-03T17:17:03Z alezost joined #scheme 2017-10-03T17:21:20Z marcux joined #scheme 2017-10-03T17:28:41Z marcux quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2017-10-03T17:32:21Z qu1j0t3: black_13 | can an existing language be used as a companion to demonstrate lamba if that makes sense // just about any functional language can/ Haskell, Ocaml, Scheme, etc 2017-10-03T17:32:34Z wasamasa: and even ruby! 2017-10-03T17:33:13Z teurastaja quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-03T17:33:25Z qu1j0t3: wouldn't be my first choice, but sure 2017-10-03T17:34:16Z ecraven: JS :P 2017-10-03T17:35:37Z wasamasa: I expect the above talk to get recreated in JS 2017-10-03T17:38:32Z stratotanker joined #scheme 2017-10-03T17:39:17Z arbv quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2017-10-03T17:41:17Z stratotanker: Hello, A tip on how to define procedure names to access class members. Is it more common to use CLASS-NAME-get-SLOT-NAME or CLASS-NAME:SLOT-NAME? 2017-10-03T17:41:46Z lambda-11235 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-03T17:42:57Z arbv joined #scheme 2017-10-03T17:43:58Z mrm: http://matt.might.net/articles/compiling-up-to-lambda-calculus/ is also a nice discussion of the subject. 2017-10-03T17:44:31Z gwatt: stratotanker: using the rnrs records, it generates accessors of the form $RECORDNAME-$SLOTNAME 2017-10-03T17:44:40Z ecraven: stratotanker: I've seen - and / used for that 2017-10-03T17:44:44Z ecraven: -get- I've never seen 2017-10-03T17:46:20Z stratotanker: uh, so for example: I have a class named and a slot bar. So the #:getter can be foo-bar or foo/bar, right? 2017-10-03T17:46:33Z ecraven: it can be anything you want 2017-10-03T17:46:50Z gravicappa joined #scheme 2017-10-03T17:46:52Z ecraven: but traditionally, it's foo-bar or foo/bar, from what I've seen so far 2017-10-03T17:47:00Z ecraven: also, just bar is common in CL CLSO 2017-10-03T17:47:02Z ecraven: CLOS code 2017-10-03T17:47:54Z stratotanker: Yea, I like the form CLASS/SLOT, like a path :) 2017-10-03T17:48:17Z ecraven: sometimes means "with" 2017-10-03T17:48:47Z gwatt: like call/cc instead of call-with-current-continuation 2017-10-03T17:49:12Z gwatt: but it's your system. you do you :-p 2017-10-03T17:49:30Z stratotanker: It's public code, GPL 2017-10-03T17:50:05Z gwatt: But you're writing it. You can do what you want. 2017-10-03T17:51:32Z wasamasa: welp, hacking a lexer into this parser added a hundred more lines 2017-10-03T17:51:45Z stratotanker: Yes, I'm writing it, but it's an official GNU Project 2017-10-03T17:51:48Z wasamasa: all just to recognize line comments 2017-10-03T17:53:50Z mrm: Someone should tell rms to include code style restrictions on GPL-4. Is the user really free if you have terrible taste when writing it? 2017-10-03T17:54:10Z stratotanker: ahahahahhahahah mrm 2017-10-03T17:54:12Z stratotanker: :p 2017-10-03T17:54:18Z wasamasa: mrm: that would render the entirety of their works unusable 2017-10-03T17:54:40Z gwatt: mrm: given the GNU C style of indents, I don't think I would want RMS' style guide. 2017-10-03T17:54:50Z mrm: wasamasa: I didn't think practicality was a suitable defense against freedom for him. 2017-10-03T17:54:57Z wasamasa: mrm: ever looked at glibc code? 2017-10-03T17:55:19Z stratotanker: I want to make a clean, understandable code so it's easy to expand it 2017-10-03T17:55:57Z stratotanker: okay, at this point I can share the link :) 2017-10-03T17:56:39Z stratotanker: https://bitbucket.org/_Christian/gnufdisk/ 2017-10-03T17:57:22Z wasamasa: you are the fdisk maintainer? 2017-10-03T17:57:49Z stratotanker: yes I am 2017-10-03T17:57:53Z wasamasa: or wait, perhaps I'm confusing it with fdisk from linux-utils 2017-10-03T17:58:10Z wasamasa: https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/util-linux/v2.31/libfdisk-docs/ 2017-10-03T17:58:19Z stratotanker: No, we maintain a different package, based on GNU parted 2017-10-03T17:58:29Z wasamasa: why would you name it the same? 2017-10-03T17:58:41Z mrm: wasamasa: I wish GNU had 1/10th of the zeal for technical excellence as they seem to have for alienating people. 2017-10-03T17:58:48Z wasamasa: mrm: amen 2017-10-03T18:00:37Z stratotanker: I did not choose the name, and you are not the first person to ask this question. I'm trying to finish this version, then I'll try to discuss if it's the case to change the name. 2017-10-03T18:00:46Z ecraven: for the love of ,deity, please name it something different :-/ 2017-10-03T18:00:48Z wasamasa: it would make for less confusion 2017-10-03T18:01:26Z wasamasa: I assumed for a moment I'd have to fear for my next arch install if there was a breaking change because someone decided to change the implementation language 2017-10-03T18:01:43Z jcob quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T18:01:48Z wasamasa: likewise, it's annoying to speak of linux fdisk and GNU fdisk which do completely different things 2017-10-03T18:04:18Z stratotanker: in fact they do not do different things, GNU fdisk is a parted library frontend. So use the parted library and "theoretically" can offer more functionalities 2017-10-03T18:04:51Z ecraven: stratotanker: it is still highly ambiguous 2017-10-03T18:06:23Z stratotanker: I also think that having the same name creates ambiguity. But I came when the project had already started. One thing at a time :) 2017-10-03T18:11:10Z stratotanker: since we are talking about it, what could be a good name for this package? 2017-10-03T18:15:36Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-03T18:23:11Z logicmoo is now known as dmiles 2017-10-03T18:25:39Z jcob joined #scheme 2017-10-03T18:26:21Z teurastaja joined #scheme 2017-10-03T18:26:59Z groovy2shoes quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T18:33:58Z jcob quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-03T18:37:22Z webshinra quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T18:37:58Z gwatt: stratotanker: GNU Disk Manager? 2017-10-03T18:38:10Z gwatt: or GDM for short. =p 2017-10-03T18:38:18Z hooman: what about gnome desktop manager =P 2017-10-03T18:38:45Z gwatt: or gdisk for that short name. 2017-10-03T18:39:15Z wasamasa: gdisk is owned by gptfdisk 2017-10-03T18:39:45Z wasamasa: let me guess, gparted is already a thing 2017-10-03T18:39:51Z wasamasa: so why not cparted 2017-10-03T18:40:29Z gwatt: isn't that already a thing? 2017-10-03T18:40:36Z gwatt: or am I thinking of cfdisk? 2017-10-03T18:40:57Z stratotanker: I like the idea of maintain "parted" in the name. I want ephatize their work 2017-10-03T18:40:58Z wasamasa: cfdisk and fdisk belong to util-linux, yes 2017-10-03T18:41:13Z wasamasa: whereas gdisk and cgdisk are from gptfdisk 2017-10-03T18:41:17Z stratotanker: maybe sfdisk to? 2017-10-03T18:41:54Z wasamasa: cparted is the most logical choice to me because there's already parted and gparted 2017-10-03T18:42:26Z gwatt: what would the c stand for? 2017-10-03T18:42:32Z stratotanker: I like the name, but: whath mean the 'c' in cparted 2017-10-03T18:42:43Z wasamasa: curses 2017-10-03T18:42:57Z stratotanker: cfdisk 2017-10-03T18:43:10Z stratotanker: is curses based fdisk 2017-10-03T18:43:53Z gwatt: gahnoo+parted! 2017-10-03T18:44:10Z wasamasa: partedx 2017-10-03T18:44:15Z stratotanker: (parted)? 2017-10-03T18:44:37Z stratotanker: as scheme is list processing? 2017-10-03T18:46:48Z acarrico joined #scheme 2017-10-03T18:56:35Z sleffy quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-03T18:56:56Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-03T18:58:28Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2017-10-03T19:00:22Z TCZ joined #scheme 2017-10-03T19:01:03Z kiriikp_ joined #scheme 2017-10-03T19:15:18Z civodul joined #scheme 2017-10-03T19:21:01Z daviid joined #scheme 2017-10-03T19:27:40Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-03T19:33:21Z acarrico quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-03T19:40:44Z jaseemabid joined #scheme 2017-10-03T19:40:47Z jaseemabid quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2017-10-03T19:41:17Z jaseemabid joined #scheme 2017-10-03T19:42:06Z jaseemabid quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2017-10-03T19:44:07Z jaseemabid joined #scheme 2017-10-03T19:44:27Z jcob joined #scheme 2017-10-03T19:52:33Z jaseemabid quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-03T19:53:10Z lambda-11235 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-03T19:56:01Z lritter quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-03T19:56:39Z emacsomancer joined #scheme 2017-10-03T19:57:29Z jaseemabid joined #scheme 2017-10-03T19:58:00Z jaseemabid quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2017-10-03T19:59:06Z jaseemabid joined #scheme 2017-10-03T19:59:49Z jaseemabid quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2017-10-03T20:00:23Z jaseemabid joined #scheme 2017-10-03T20:01:52Z jaseemabid quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T20:03:58Z jaseemabid joined #scheme 2017-10-03T20:07:20Z webshinra joined #scheme 2017-10-03T20:18:38Z jaseemabid quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-03T20:22:06Z acarrico joined #scheme 2017-10-03T20:23:21Z teurastaja quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T20:29:35Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2017-10-03T20:31:42Z acarrico quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-03T20:33:05Z jcowan_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-03T20:36:41Z jcob quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-03T20:36:51Z alezost quit (Quit: I live in GuixSD and Emacs ) 2017-10-03T20:38:43Z acarrico joined #scheme 2017-10-03T20:41:30Z groovy2shoes joined #scheme 2017-10-03T20:44:50Z bars0 joined #scheme 2017-10-03T20:54:51Z cemerick_ joined #scheme 2017-10-03T20:58:07Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-03T20:58:39Z benq quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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If delimited continuations make it in, at least :) 2017-10-04T17:45:07Z vicenteH quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-04T17:53:51Z terpri joined #scheme 2017-10-04T17:56:34Z dsp joined #scheme 2017-10-04T17:59:05Z weltung joined #scheme 2017-10-04T18:03:41Z jcowan: manumanumanu: It's not a working document any more: the color dockets indicate the current plans 2017-10-04T18:03:55Z jcowan: I should go through it and shift everything to its proper color 2017-10-04T18:06:23Z danly joined #scheme 2017-10-04T18:22:38Z alezost joined #scheme 2017-10-04T18:26:52Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-04T18:29:17Z pilne joined #scheme 2017-10-04T18:32:22Z Murii|linux joined #scheme 2017-10-04T18:32:30Z Murii joined #scheme 2017-10-04T18:34:41Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-04T18:36:23Z terpri quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-04T18:39:33Z manumanumanu: jcowan: delimited continuations is where it is at, really. shift+reset or call-with-prompt would be neat to have in all schemes. it is a really really powerful tool 2017-10-04T18:39:44Z manumanumanu: but they can be a bit fiddly to implement 2017-10-04T18:40:27Z manumanumanu: but otoh: so can macro hygiene 2017-10-04T18:40:39Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-04T18:41:16Z jcowan quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-04T18:42:00Z webshinra quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-04T18:43:22Z stratotanker joined #scheme 2017-10-04T18:44:15Z webshinra joined #scheme 2017-10-04T18:48:37Z stratotanker quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2017-10-04T18:48:52Z stratotanker joined #scheme 2017-10-04T18:48:57Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-04T18:50:12Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2017-10-04T18:56:01Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-04T18:59:07Z weltung_ joined #scheme 2017-10-04T18:59:35Z reich quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2017-10-04T19:00:01Z weltung quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-04T19:01:08Z pie_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-04T19:02:04Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-04T19:07:16Z jmd quit (Remote host 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Im curious to know is there any nice list library for chicken scheme 2017-10-05T16:12:45Z wasamasa: you mean other than srfi-1? 2017-10-05T16:13:20Z jcob: Yeah, something that has CL goodies like remove-if-not 2017-10-05T16:13:35Z wasamasa: the rest of the world calls it filter 2017-10-05T16:13:41Z jcob: >< 2017-10-05T16:13:59Z jcob: Thank you very much wasamasa 2017-10-05T16:14:00Z wasamasa: ok, not entirely true, smalltalk calls it select 2017-10-05T16:14:26Z qu1j0t3: as does Ruby 2017-10-05T16:14:33Z wasamasa: ruby has a filter alias though 2017-10-05T16:15:06Z wasamasa: or wait, did I just imagine things? 2017-10-05T16:15:15Z wasamasa: must have been dash.el 2017-10-05T16:16:15Z wasamasa: the ruby alias is find_all, for whatever reason 2017-10-05T16:16:34Z crucify_me quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-05T16:20:20Z tonton quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-05T16:21:53Z tonton joined #scheme 2017-10-05T16:27:39Z smazga joined #scheme 2017-10-05T16:27:58Z crucify_me joined #scheme 2017-10-05T16:28:34Z emacsomancer joined #scheme 2017-10-05T16:36:29Z crucify_me quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-05T16:39:55Z greatscottttt quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9) 2017-10-05T16:40:37Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-05T16:42:52Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-05T16:43:15Z gravicappa joined #scheme 2017-10-05T16:48:37Z alezost joined #scheme 2017-10-05T16:52:57Z crucify_me joined #scheme 2017-10-05T16:54:25Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-05T16:57:35Z crucify_me quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-05T16:58:41Z pie_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-05T17:04:00Z crucify_me joined #scheme 2017-10-05T17:06:27Z sz0 joined #scheme 2017-10-05T17:08:15Z crucify_me quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-05T17:14:15Z jmd joined #scheme 2017-10-05T17:14:45Z crucify_me joined #scheme 2017-10-05T17:20:35Z crucify_me quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-05T17:26:37Z ejt quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2017-10-05T17:26:46Z murii quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-05T17:26:54Z crucify_me joined #scheme 2017-10-05T17:29:32Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-05T17:32:27Z cemerick joined #scheme 2017-10-05T17:34:41Z yottabyte joined #scheme 2017-10-05T17:38:51Z crucify_me quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-05T17:40:57Z crucify_me joined #scheme 2017-10-05T17:41:29Z cemerick_ joined #scheme 2017-10-05T17:44:28Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-05T17:45:01Z crucify_me quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-05T17:46:32Z cemerick_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-05T17:57:16Z nckx quit (Quit: Restarting my GuixSD server — https://gnu.org/s/guix) 2017-10-05T17:58:45Z nckx joined #scheme 2017-10-05T18:07:04Z yottabyte: is chez scheme so fast because it's compiled? 2017-10-05T18:09:58Z crucify_me joined #scheme 2017-10-05T18:12:18Z gwatt: That's certainly part of the reason 2017-10-05T18:12:59Z gwatt: I think another is that it's been around since the mid 80s with the same person running it. 2017-10-05T18:14:32Z crucify_me quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-05T18:20:57Z crucify_me joined #scheme 2017-10-05T18:23:04Z yottabyte: this is a cool chart: https://ecraven.github.io/r7rs-benchmarks/ 2017-10-05T18:25:37Z crucify_me quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-05T18:26:02Z daviid joined #scheme 2017-10-05T18:29:08Z crucify_me joined #scheme 2017-10-05T18:48:40Z wasamasa: no, it's fast because it's been carefully designed 2017-10-05T18:48:52Z wasamasa: compilation merely allows for that kind of speed 2017-10-05T19:01:06Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-05T19:03:32Z ertes joined #scheme 2017-10-05T19:06:34Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-05T19:15:34Z taylan: yottabyte: Chicken, Gambit, Bigloo, and MIT are also all compiled (if I remember correctly) 2017-10-05T19:15:47Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2017-10-05T19:16:05Z civodul joined #scheme 2017-10-05T19:18:48Z taylan: usually, in terms of "core" speed, the order goes like: interpreted -> byte-code compiler/VM -> native compilation. but the exact design makes massive differences, to the point where e.g. a very well-optimized interpreter could outperform a VM executing byte-code. 2017-10-05T19:20:12Z wasamasa: like, racket 2017-10-05T19:20:44Z taylan: wasamasa: I thought Racket has good speed. which interpreter outperforms it? 2017-10-05T19:20:48Z wasamasa: it does extremely well in benchmarks despite being a byte-code interpreter 2017-10-05T19:21:01Z wasamasa: taylan: no, silly, it outperforms some compilers 2017-10-05T19:21:09Z taylan: oh ok 2017-10-05T19:21:59Z taylan: that r7rs benchmarks page really needs averages 2017-10-05T19:22:36Z ecraven: taylan: working on it, some people sent me great ideas on how to better show the data 2017-10-05T19:22:37Z taylan: "times faster than any other" is nice but it doesn't help tell the difference between the "lower" implementations :P 2017-10-05T19:22:47Z akkad: larceny, gerbil, cyclone compile as well 2017-10-05T19:22:50Z ecraven: I'll try to update it within the next week 2017-10-05T19:23:13Z akkad: and the wins are soo close it almost does not matter among the small end of the z-tail 2017-10-05T19:23:18Z taylan: ecraven: in any case, thank you for that page! 2017-10-05T19:23:53Z wasamasa: taylan: so, what's the status of r7rs for guile? 2017-10-05T19:24:16Z wasamasa: taylan: I have tried very hard, but didn't find any switch to make it run r7rs programs 2017-10-05T19:24:36Z taylan: wasamasa: the status for r7rs in guile is "I haven't done any free software stuff in months" 2017-10-05T19:24:37Z akkad: is r7rs generally disliked? seems to get a lot of downvotes 2017-10-05T19:25:01Z taylan: akkad: IMO r7rs-small good (don't get the hate), r7rs-large bad very bad 2017-10-05T19:25:05Z wasamasa: taylan: um, isn't that your status? 2017-10-05T19:25:12Z taylan: wasamasa: type error 2017-10-05T19:25:32Z taylan: at least I can write C# and Java now! 2017-10-05T19:25:37Z wasamasa: .____. 2017-10-05T19:25:47Z taylan: and terrible XSLT 1.0 templates 2017-10-05T19:25:59Z taylan: long live SAP Business One 2017-10-05T19:26:12Z taylan: oh also: Visual Basic 2017-10-05T19:26:18Z taylan: the bestest of the best 2017-10-05T19:26:29Z wasamasa shudders 2017-10-05T19:27:42Z taylan: jokes aside though C# is a very nice language, Visual Studio is a great IDE, and writing Android apps in Java 7 with Android Studio is a pretty nice experience save for some terrible idiosyncracies of Android like having to serialize/deserialize data structures to pass them around WITHIN THE SAME FUCKING PROCESS sorry 2017-10-05T19:30:00Z gwatt: that's weird 2017-10-05T19:31:13Z taylan: well apparently they did it so the state of backgrounded applications can be serialized to disk when memory is tight 2017-10-05T19:32:35Z taylan: and any "screen" you program (independent UI chunk) can be called from third party applications as well as from within the same application, through the same interface. 2017-10-05T19:33:50Z Steverman quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-05T19:33:58Z taylan: but you don't want that in 99% of cases, so iOS is definitely ahead in that aspect, just dumping the memory of your app to disk and reviving it without the program needing to serialize/deserialize or otherwise notice anything. 2017-10-05T19:40:41Z yottabyte quit 2017-10-05T20:12:17Z Steverman joined #scheme 2017-10-05T20:18:41Z qu1j0t3 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-05T20:20:25Z qu1j0t3 joined #scheme 2017-10-05T20:21:51Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-05T20:23:45Z crucify_me quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-05T20:23:51Z crucify__ joined #scheme 2017-10-05T20:24:53Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-05T20:27:06Z yottabyte joined #scheme 2017-10-05T20:32:10Z jcob: Hey guys I wrote a function that works now for what I want it to do, but as an inexperienced schemer, I dont know if I covered all the cases 2017-10-05T20:32:22Z jcob: Does this look right: https://hastebin.com/tojocodiqa.lisp ? 2017-10-05T20:33:21Z wasamasa: this looks like a less elegant version of SICP's tree-map 2017-10-05T20:34:45Z wasamasa: or rather, enumerate-tree 2017-10-05T20:36:15Z wasamasa: https://github.com/wasamasa/sicp/blob/master/exercises/2.2.2.scm#L189-L194 2017-10-05T20:49:48Z jcob: Hmm I may be wrong, but I dont think either enumerate-tree nor tree-map are what I want. I'm looking for a function such that: (my-function reverse '((10 1) (2323 3 4) (59 76))) would evaluate to '((1 10) (4 3 2323) (76 59)) 2017-10-05T20:50:12Z wasamasa: why not just map? 2017-10-05T20:50:46Z wasamasa: or not quite, hm 2017-10-05T20:50:58Z wasamasa: I have a deep-reverse above 2017-10-05T20:52:04Z wasamasa: rudybot: eval (map reverse '((10 1) (2323 3 4) (59 76))) 2017-10-05T20:52:16Z rudybot: wasamasa: error: with-limit: out of time 2017-10-05T20:52:25Z wasamasa: tsk tsk 2017-10-05T20:58:47Z jcob: Hmm yes. I gave a bad example. Here's kinda what I meant: (my-func reverse '((10 2) (20 (3 2)))) => ((2 10) ((2 3) 20)) 2017-10-05T20:58:54Z jcob: So that its applied to all lists 2017-10-05T20:59:02Z jcob: & inner lists 2017-10-05T21:02:01Z alezost quit (Quit: I live in GuixSD and Emacs ) 2017-10-05T21:05:25Z crucify__ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-05T21:05:56Z crucify_me joined #scheme 2017-10-05T21:06:53Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.3.1)) 2017-10-05T21:18:22Z crucify_me quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-05T21:18:51Z jcob: Alright so I made a thing that makes lists of lists into vectors of vectors, but I think it could be prettier: https://hastebin.com/qoticeqaho.lisp 2017-10-05T21:19:01Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2017-10-05T21:20:51Z crucify_me joined #scheme 2017-10-05T21:20:56Z wasamasa: it should be a matter of generalizing deep-reverse 2017-10-05T21:29:05Z crucify_me quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-05T21:31:06Z crucify_me joined #scheme 2017-10-05T21:36:42Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-05T21:39:05Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-05T21:40:21Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-05T21:58:03Z benq joined #scheme 2017-10-05T22:11:56Z jmd joined #scheme 2017-10-05T22:23:04Z benq quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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Does that mean that syntax-rules allows for computation at compile-time in that expression, and does that mean I need a separate evaluation system at that point? 2017-10-05T23:53:11Z Vermie: Because if so, does that mean that an implementation should have at least a two-high "tower of evaluators/expanders?" 2017-10-05T23:53:31Z Vermie: I also noticed -- is it possible to alias `syntax-case` into another keyword for use from that keyword at compile time? 2017-10-06T00:01:01Z cromachina joined #scheme 2017-10-06T00:01:48Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-06T00:02:41Z Vermie: Anyone? 2017-10-06T00:03:55Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-06T00:06:48Z Kristof_HT joined #scheme 2017-10-06T00:07:14Z Vermie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-06T00:13:52Z danly quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-06T00:21:07Z crucify_me quit 2017-10-06T00:25:05Z pjb joined #scheme 2017-10-06T00:26:29Z grublet joined #scheme 2017-10-06T00:28:19Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-06T00:30:55Z grublet quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-06T00:42:17Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-06T00:43:46Z Riastradh: jcowan: Someone asked me about an RSS feed, and I see now that ccil.org/~cowan no longer works. What am I to do? 2017-10-06T00:49:28Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-06T00:53:02Z nicklaf quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-06T00:54:27Z nicklaf joined #scheme 2017-10-06T00:59:01Z jcowan: Riastradh: vrici.lojban.org/~cowan 2017-10-06T00:59:06Z jcowan: ccil.org is permadown 2017-10-06T00:59:18Z jcowan: (except as an email domain) 2017-10-06T01:00:10Z jcowan: Vermie: syntax-rules does *not* provide evaluation at compile-time, though syntax-case and friends do. 2017-10-06T01:00:30Z Riastradh: jcowan: I guess your RSS copy of my blag doesn't update any more? 2017-10-06T01:07:11Z marvin2 quit 2017-10-06T01:11:04Z jcowan: Hmm, I can probably fix that 2017-10-06T01:13:19Z jcowan: there was a hard-coded path that had become wrong 2017-10-06T01:13:40Z jcowan: it updates daily at 23:59 New York time 2017-10-06T01:16:31Z pierpa joined #scheme 2017-10-06T01:25:41Z ohama quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-06T01:26:34Z ArneBab_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 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scheme internally? or do they just hire dybvig to develop it for fun? 2017-10-06T13:55:37Z qu1j0t3: yottabyte: I believe they do or did, and that is why they invested in it. But somebody with primary sources can chime in 2017-10-06T13:57:40Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-06T14:05:15Z dbmikus joined #scheme 2017-10-06T14:15:49Z jcob joined #scheme 2017-10-06T14:42:42Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2017-10-06T14:43:01Z gwatt: I don't think any of the cisco employees working on chez hang out here, or even in #chez 2017-10-06T14:43:46Z gwatt: You might have some luck asking on the google group as Andy Keep seems to respond to questions there. 2017-10-06T14:44:37Z gwatt: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/chez-scheme 2017-10-06T14:44:58Z jcowan_ joined #scheme 2017-10-06T14:45:30Z yottabyte: who is Andy Keep? 2017-10-06T14:46:18Z gwatt: One of the people working on Chez at Cisco 2017-10-06T14:46:33Z gwatt: He developed nanopass as his phd thesis 2017-10-06T14:47:36Z benq is now known as benqq 2017-10-06T14:47:50Z yottabyte: cool 2017-10-06T14:48:02Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-06T14:50:05Z benqq quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2017-10-06T15:00:34Z yottabyte: what are the implications of racket going forward to use chez as their vm? 2017-10-06T15:11:49Z gwatt: o you mean that in the sense of "what will happen to chez?" or something else? 2017-10-06T15:19:29Z jcob quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-06T15:21:14Z jcob joined #scheme 2017-10-06T15:23:56Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-06T15:42:59Z ZombieChicken quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-06T15:44:36Z ZombieChicken joined #scheme 2017-10-06T15:51:22Z renopt quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-06T15:52:40Z ertes joined #scheme 2017-10-06T15:55:29Z smazga joined #scheme 2017-10-06T16:00:27Z jcowan_: yottabyte: Probably no real effect on Chez except that Racket will probably need a few new primitives, and some of these may make it upstream to Chez. 2017-10-06T16:03:08Z jcowan_: Although there are some mismatches between the primitive 2017-10-06T16:03:08Z jcowan_: features that Chez and Racket provide, it will mostly work; in rare 2017-10-06T16:03:09Z jcowan_: cases where there's no other solution, we can contribute pull requests 2017-10-06T16:03:09Z jcowan_: to Chez. 2017-10-06T16:03:20Z jcowan_: --His Flattness 2017-10-06T16:03:22Z jcob: Style wise, is it better to return '() or #f for a function that looks for something and finds nothing 2017-10-06T16:03:29Z jcowan_: #f, definitely 2017-10-06T16:03:52Z wasamasa: '() might be better if it otherwise returns a non-null list 2017-10-06T16:04:15Z jcowan_: Even so, I think it's better to return #f so it can be used as a quasi-predicate 2017-10-06T16:04:26Z wasamasa: yeah, that makes it easier to test for failure 2017-10-06T16:04:31Z jcowan_: assoc normally returns a pair, but still returns #f for failure 2017-10-06T16:04:53Z jcowan_: vs. the Common Lisp version that returns () -- which is the same as false in CL 2017-10-06T16:28:14Z pjb joined #scheme 2017-10-06T16:40:58Z jcowan_: Later, Flatt said: 2017-10-06T16:41:00Z jcowan_: Single-precision floats, extended-precision floats, incremental GC, and 2017-10-06T16:41:00Z jcowan_: memory accounting are still off the table, for now. 2017-10-06T16:46:57Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.3.1)) 2017-10-06T16:55:42Z yottabyte: jcowan_: thanks. how are you talking to flatt? 2017-10-06T16:56:12Z Riastradh: Peanut butter ansible, I bet. 2017-10-06T16:56:26Z danly joined #scheme 2017-10-06T16:58:35Z jcowan_: reading racket-dev archives at google groups 2017-10-06T16:58:58Z jcowan_: btw, "ansible" turns out to be short for "answerable", per UKL 2017-10-06T16:59:23Z Riastradh: Unanswerable peanut butter is the worst. 2017-10-06T17:01:21Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-06T17:24:31Z jmd joined #scheme 2017-10-06T17:43:08Z vicenteH quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-06T18:08:59Z alezost joined #scheme 2017-10-06T18:16:36Z profan joined #scheme 2017-10-06T18:51:50Z lritter joined #scheme 2017-10-06T18:54:20Z c0dehero is now known as PyroLagus 2017-10-06T19:08:17Z ertes quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-06T19:09:00Z arbv quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2017-10-06T19:10:31Z arbv joined #scheme 2017-10-06T19:12:38Z arbv quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-06T19:13:59Z arbv joined #scheme 2017-10-06T19:16:37Z wigust quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-06T19:24:13Z akkad: Riastradh: after Ansible tried to delete all my instances at a new company week 1, I never let it touch AWS again. https://github.com/ansible/ansible/issues/9431 this bit someone recently 2017-10-06T19:30:57Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-06T19:33:40Z Murii|linux joined #scheme 2017-10-06T19:39:38Z arbv quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2017-10-06T19:42:48Z pie_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-06T19:46:06Z wasamasa: I like that the first reply is by the oh so friendly bot 2017-10-06T19:48:34Z arbv joined #scheme 2017-10-06T19:49:25Z gwatt: It's not like anyone was going to beat the bot to a response 2017-10-06T19:50:31Z Chrono quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2017-10-06T19:53:53Z pierpa joined #scheme 2017-10-06T19:58:15Z stux|work quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-06T20:08:58Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-06T20:11:37Z sethalves quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-06T20:15:06Z sethalves joined #scheme 2017-10-06T20:17:24Z stratotanker joined #scheme 2017-10-06T20:24:10Z stratotanker: Hello, someone can help me with guile and gettext? I'm getting in a wrong way with a lot of format params that maps to (gettext "str") 2017-10-06T20:24:58Z wasamasa: I'll assume you already looked at the docs 2017-10-06T20:25:04Z wasamasa: do the sources make more sense to you? 2017-10-06T20:26:08Z stratotanker: I looked at guile gettext documentation, they make simple examples. It's not my case. 2017-10-06T20:27:02Z wasamasa: btw, if you have problems with code and don't post a code example... 2017-10-06T20:27:05Z stratotanker: I have complex format strings made up from text and numbers 2017-10-06T20:27:56Z stratotanker: wasamasa You're right! :) Let me time to get a pasted example 2017-10-06T20:28:10Z wasamasa: only psychics can help you 2017-10-06T20:28:18Z gravicappa joined #scheme 2017-10-06T20:30:06Z stratotanker: https://pastebin.com/42R2xUyC 2017-10-06T20:30:54Z stratotanker: the _ is an alias of gettext 2017-10-06T20:33:35Z stratotanker: I cannot use gettext on the format string because simple-format want a literal string 2017-10-06T20:33:58Z stratotanker: I suppose the behaviour is the same with format procedure 2017-10-06T20:35:06Z wasamasa: so, do you get the same error if you remove the gettext usage? 2017-10-06T20:35:55Z stratotanker: No, without gettext (using literal string) there are no errors. 2017-10-06T20:36:43Z stratotanker: es: (simple-format #t "bla bla ~a blu bla" param) it's okay 2017-10-06T20:37:20Z stratotanker: using (simple-format #t (gettext "abla ble blu ble ~a bla") param) i get errors 2017-10-06T20:38:22Z wasamasa: I mean by replacing the (_ ...) with whatever it would return 2017-10-06T20:38:32Z wasamasa: because I don't see why format would be important here 2017-10-06T20:40:21Z stratotanker: If there is another way to get the same output without a lot of code, it's okay to me 2017-10-06T20:40:59Z wasamasa: the idea is to simplify the code as much as you can until taking anything away makes the error disappear 2017-10-06T20:42:22Z wasamasa: also, your example isn't self-contained 2017-10-06T20:42:30Z wasamasa: I cannot reproduce the error this way 2017-10-06T20:46:07Z stratotanker: Sorry, my error! 2017-10-06T20:47:51Z stratotanker: I get confused, sorry! 2017-10-06T20:52:36Z renopt joined #scheme 2017-10-06T21:12:43Z yottabyte quit 2017-10-06T21:16:20Z mejja joined #scheme 2017-10-06T21:21:05Z 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The else statement? 2017-10-10T21:31:46Z teurastaja: if the initial program is just (list 'x 'y 'z) then (list 'x 'y 'z) is returned 2017-10-10T21:32:03Z DeeEff: I would also suspect your problem has something to do with the `(let* (x (compile!)) (y (compile!)) (z (compile!))) ... )` 2017-10-10T21:32:15Z DeeEff: is that supposed to be a let*? 2017-10-10T21:32:22Z DeeEff: do you really need x defined in order to define y and z? 2017-10-10T21:32:29Z teurastaja: yes 2017-10-10T21:32:59Z stratotanker joined #scheme 2017-10-10T21:33:03Z stratotanker: Hi 2017-10-10T21:33:22Z teurastaja: or maybe its the [else program] of the cond statement not freeing the leftmost expression? 2017-10-10T21:33:32Z stratotanker: I'm back with another question! :) 2017-10-10T21:34:09Z teurastaja: ill try setting program to (cdr program) and return the previous program 2017-10-10T21:34:25Z DeeEff: teurastaja: I am unsure what your else statement does, it should just end that call. 2017-10-10T21:34:30Z DeeEff: which would return the previous program 2017-10-10T21:34:48Z DeeEff: I guess the fact that this is pretty stateful is the first reason why it's confusing :X 2017-10-10T21:34:56Z teurastaja: yes but i rely on state to consume the program list 2017-10-10T21:36:35Z teurastaja: i wasnt able to think it through functionally. maybe with call-with-current-continuation but state makes it easier 2017-10-10T21:37:15Z DeeEff: well if i knew what an SK combinator was I could attempt to help, but I'm afraid I can't 2017-10-10T21:37:20Z teurastaja: also, im doing it to create a successor to the neural turing machine: the lambda calculus neural machine :P 2017-10-10T21:37:23Z stratotanker: I'm writing a program which can run both in script and interactive mode. If run in interactive mode the program can print messages, otherwise it should not print. I have a global flag to keep mode, but i don't want to make the program check this flag each time. One solution can be define a wrapper print procedure, there is a better one? 2017-10-10T21:37:44Z teurastaja: and state is essential to reason with recurrent neural networks 2017-10-10T21:39:20Z teurastaja: stratotanker: you run linux? 2017-10-10T21:40:12Z stratotanker: teurstaja yes but It's not a prerequisite 2017-10-10T21:41:11Z dbmikus quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-10T21:45:42Z teurastaja: stratotanker: dont you have a startup file? 2017-10-10T21:45:46Z dbmikus joined #scheme 2017-10-10T21:46:17Z dbmikus quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-10T21:46:44Z stratotanker: teurastaja: no 2017-10-10T21:47:13Z stratotanker: I'm doing with a wrapper, let me paste and link it 2017-10-10T21:47:51Z teurastaja: (when has-run (set! has-run #t) (display your-message)) 2017-10-10T21:48:02Z teurastaja: oops 2017-10-10T21:48:20Z teurastaja: (unless has-run (set! has-run #t) (display your-message)) 2017-10-10T21:48:45Z stratotanker: https://pastebin.com/6Min6peg 2017-10-10T21:50:17Z teurastaja: stratotanker: just bootstrap your compiler from a scheme script, defining your flag 2017-10-10T21:50:44Z teurastaja: not even need a flag 2017-10-10T21:51:56Z teurastaja: just write a file which has (display "blabla") then loads the compiler 2017-10-10T21:53:28Z stratotanker: Sorry I don't understand. What you mean with "load the compiler"? 2017-10-10T21:57:45Z teurastaja quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-10T22:07:40Z emacsomancer quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-10T22:10:30Z emacsomancer joined #scheme 2017-10-10T22:12:01Z joaj joined #scheme 2017-10-10T22:14:25Z CESSMASTER joined #scheme 2017-10-10T22:19:41Z stratotanker quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-10T22:20:19Z Murii|linux quit (Quit: Time to go!) 2017-10-10T22:20:44Z alezost quit (Quit: I live in GuixSD and Emacs ) 2017-10-10T22:23:51Z daviid joined #scheme 2017-10-10T22:29:46Z smazga quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-10T22:37:56Z marcux joined #scheme 2017-10-10T22:56:31Z vicenteH quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-10T23:08:30Z klovett quit 2017-10-10T23:21:07Z cromachina joined #scheme 2017-10-10T23:33:09Z lritter quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-10T23:38:29Z javmx joined #scheme 2017-10-10T23:38:57Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-10T23:49:53Z kvda joined #scheme 2017-10-10T23:57:21Z Khisanth joined #scheme 2017-10-11T00:04:53Z benq quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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It's a bad idea all around! 2017-10-11T15:21:42Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-11T15:22:18Z gwatt: I just mean that it's not a problem specific to npm 2017-10-11T15:24:00Z gwatt: Also, I would argue it's a problem shared by OS package managers 2017-10-11T15:24:13Z gwatt: Who knows how much code auditing goes into that. 2017-10-11T15:25:01Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-11T15:26:24Z terpri joined #scheme 2017-10-11T15:27:59Z emacsomancer quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-11T15:29:25Z cemerick_ joined #scheme 2017-10-11T15:32:48Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-11T15:33:24Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2017-10-11T15:39:45Z greatscottttt quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9) 2017-10-11T15:43:38Z jcowan joined #scheme 2017-10-11T15:47:57Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-11T15:48:15Z vicenteH quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-11T15:49:20Z smazga joined #scheme 2017-10-11T15:56:04Z Steverman quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-11T16:08:15Z alezost joined #scheme 2017-10-11T16:21:28Z cemerick_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-11T16:21:52Z wigust quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-11T16:21:55Z cemerick_ joined #scheme 2017-10-11T16:25:10Z Murii|linux joined #scheme 2017-10-11T16:42:44Z sethalves joined #scheme 2017-10-11T16:48:16Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-11T16:55:08Z tax joined #scheme 2017-10-11T16:57:57Z Steverman joined #scheme 2017-10-11T16:58:03Z alezost quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-11T16:59:19Z alezost joined #scheme 2017-10-11T17:08:31Z alezost quit (Quit: I live in GuixSD and Emacs ) 2017-10-11T17:24:21Z hive-mind quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-11T17:26:56Z hive-mind joined #scheme 2017-10-11T17:34:27Z jcowan_ joined #scheme 2017-10-11T17:36:31Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-11T17:43:57Z hive-mind quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-11T17:45:09Z hive-mind joined #scheme 2017-10-11T17:54:07Z emacsomancer joined #scheme 2017-10-11T18:02:14Z webshinra: ecraven, done: https://framapic.org/wjgq1wbGOW3M/eVOrofLWoIoU.jpg 2017-10-11T18:03:57Z ecraven: now I'm envious! 2017-10-11T18:04:06Z ecraven: how do you like them? 2017-10-11T18:05:26Z webshinra: like what? 2017-10-11T18:06:54Z ecraven: the keys and the keyboard in general? 2017-10-11T18:07:14Z webshinra: hum… 2017-10-11T18:08:19Z webshinra: in working condition :P 2017-10-11T18:08:40Z vicenteH joined #scheme 2017-10-11T18:10:06Z webshinra: (i need to re-wire my brain before being able to type faster than my grand 2017-10-11T18:10:39Z webshinra: ma) 2017-10-11T18:10:44Z ecraven: ;) 2017-10-11T18:11:40Z gwatt: reminds me of the datahand 2017-10-11T18:11:54Z gwatt: I wish I could get mine working with my macbook 2017-10-11T18:13:48Z jmd joined #scheme 2017-10-11T18:16:13Z ecraven: I wish I had a DataHand :-/ 2017-10-11T18:16:30Z ecraven: I saw one on ebay for about $1k years ago, should have bought it :-/ 2017-10-11T18:16:45Z webshinra: I did not know of the datahand, the concept is cool 2017-10-11T18:17:04Z ecraven: some day, I'll have to build one 2017-10-11T18:18:13Z webshinra: it's seems hard to type non-ansi char thought 2017-10-11T18:18:40Z ecraven: webshinra: harder than on any other keyboard? 2017-10-11T18:18:52Z ecraven: I'd love a combination of the DataHand and chording keyboards 2017-10-11T18:18:57Z ecraven: like the veyboard 2017-10-11T18:19:41Z webshinra: it's pretty easy with adapted keymap 2017-10-11T18:19:49Z webshinra: to write french, 2017-10-11T18:19:52Z ecraven: webshinra: same thing with a datahand ;) 2017-10-11T18:20:00Z ecraven: especially a custom one where you control the firmware 2017-10-11T18:20:07Z tmc quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-11T18:20:25Z webshinra: you need more key 2017-10-11T18:20:53Z webshinra: so chording seems inevitable 2017-10-11T18:21:12Z ecraven: webshinra: the datahand has so many keys 2017-10-11T18:21:15Z ecraven: each finger has 5 2017-10-11T18:21:42Z ecraven: webshinra: did you notice that there's one down, one left, one up, one right and one "into" the keyboard? 2017-10-11T18:21:56Z ecraven: so you have 8*5 plus all the thumb keys 2017-10-11T18:22:13Z ecraven: also, I'd mod it with a trackball for the thumb 2017-10-11T18:24:22Z webshinra: It would be tight but the bépo letter would fit 2017-10-11T18:24:48Z ecraven: well, I use an iso-level3-shift for öäüß when typing german. put it on a thumb, and it's no problem at all 2017-10-11T18:25:14Z ecraven: I even have {}()[] with a thumb modifier, but on the right index/middle fingers ;) 2017-10-11T18:25:22Z ecraven: makes typing scheme so much easier 2017-10-11T18:25:35Z webshinra: ça, c'est sur. 2017-10-11T18:36:00Z daviid joined #scheme 2017-10-11T18:37:35Z benq quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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See https://goo.gl/U9nccp 2017-10-12T08:31:46Z ebzzry: Scsh runs on top of Scheme48, which uses the structure `tables`, which contains `make-table` 2017-10-12T08:32:54Z ebzzry: There is `make-table` from Scheme48. There is also `make-hash-table` from srfi-69. However, srfi-69 is not included with Scsh 0.7. 2017-10-12T08:38:54Z civodul joined #scheme 2017-10-12T08:45:41Z dmiles quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-12T09:01:52Z dmiles joined #scheme 2017-10-12T09:08:13Z ssake quit (Quit: leaving) 2017-10-12T09:22:05Z qu1j0t3 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-12T09:43:20Z [X-Scale] joined #scheme 2017-10-12T09:44:57Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-12T09:44:58Z [X-Scale] is now known as X-Scale 2017-10-12T10:15:09Z rmrfchik- joined #scheme 2017-10-12T10:16:10Z rmrfchik-: Hi, from some previous life I remember smth like "rnrs.org" for the next upcoming standard and discussion. 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I don't want to use mutation, `reverse' or `append'. https://paste.debian.net/hidden/13412fd9 is the best I could do. Any ideas? 2017-10-12T20:19:08Z DeeEff: didi: is this for learning or you just need a procedure to do it? 2017-10-12T20:19:25Z DeeEff: because `partition` from srfi-1 will do what you need 2017-10-12T20:19:27Z didi: DeeEff: Just for fun. 2017-10-12T20:19:46Z didi: DeeEff: Thank you, but it is just a fun exercise in my head. 2017-10-12T20:19:52Z DeeEff: e.g. `(define-values (x y) (partition odd? 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ZZZzzz…) 2017-10-13T05:35:13Z pie___ joined #scheme 2017-10-13T05:35:50Z pie_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-13T05:46:42Z ecraven: nice, mit-scheme git is moving steadily towards r7rs ;) 2017-10-13T05:46:51Z ecraven: though that breaks all my existing code :-/ 2017-10-13T05:47:20Z wasamasa: I feel the same about the library reorganization in C5 which suspiciously looks like the R7RS library hierarchy 2017-10-13T05:52:12Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-13T06:03:21Z yadzi joined #scheme 2017-10-13T06:12:17Z ecraven: in the end, it's a good thing, just not yesterday... my web hoster is still running kernel 2.6.32 on openvz, so after upgrading arch linux, the only thing I got was FATAL: kernel too old... so reinstall ubuntu, and make everything run on the newest mit-scheme-git (the last release is way too old)... not a fun evening ;) 2017-10-13T06:12:34Z ecraven: also, I'm looking for a new vps provider ;) 2017-10-13T06:13:21Z Anthaas_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-13T06:13:21Z ebzzry: Aside from SRFI 69 and 125, are there other ways to create hash tables? 2017-10-13T06:14:00Z marvin2 joined #scheme 2017-10-13T06:21:49Z pie___ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-13T06:31:24Z grublet quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-13T06:33:31Z caseyowo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-13T06:35:38Z yadzi quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-13T06:36:10Z yadzi joined #scheme 2017-10-13T06:45:25Z lambda-11235 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-13T06:50:09Z murii_ joined #scheme 2017-10-13T06:51:59Z yadzi_ joined #scheme 2017-10-13T06:52:56Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-13T06:53:19Z yadzi quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-13T06:53:20Z yadzi_ is now known as yadzi 2017-10-13T06:53:20Z cromachina joined #scheme 2017-10-13T07:04:41Z excelsior quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-13T07:05:53Z excelsior joined #scheme 2017-10-13T07:08:46Z ertes quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-13T07:22:32Z takitus quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-13T07:38:07Z jcowan joined #scheme 2017-10-13T07:40:25Z civodul joined #scheme 2017-10-13T07:40:47Z jcowan_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-13T07:43:38Z hive-mind quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-13T07:44:42Z wasamasa: ecraven: I switched back to tilaa after my previous provider went up in a puff of some 2017-10-13T07:44:47Z wasamasa: *smoke 2017-10-13T07:45:15Z ecraven: unfortunately I need it to be on .at soil ;) 2017-10-13T07:45:24Z ecraven: which narrows down the choice considerably 2017-10-13T07:46:17Z wasamasa: ouch 2017-10-13T07:46:34Z wasamasa: they're in the Netherlands, so that's out 2017-10-13T07:46:43Z ecraven: yea.. DSGVO problems 2017-10-13T07:47:17Z wasamasa: my previous one used German data centers 2017-10-13T07:48:19Z wasamasa: and the last one turned out to be a dodgy one 2017-10-13T07:48:55Z ecraven: I've even considered funkfeuer.at, but I don't want to worry about hardware :-) 2017-10-13T07:50:18Z wasamasa: I could imagine alis to know about a hosting channel 2017-10-13T07:50:37Z excelsior quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-13T07:50:49Z excelsior joined #scheme 2017-10-13T07:51:01Z hive-mind joined #scheme 2017-10-13T07:53:38Z wasamasa: this Funkfeuer thing reminds me of the Freifunk project 2017-10-13T07:54:00Z ecraven: probably similar. if this were just private, and not for a paying customer, I might even consider it 2017-10-13T07:55:58Z pjb joined #scheme 2017-10-13T07:56:27Z wasamasa: ah, so they're not having the issue of explaining the other meaning of free? 2017-10-13T07:56:44Z wasamasa: what a luxury :D 2017-10-13T08:08:28Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-13T08:20:11Z greatscottttt joined #scheme 2017-10-13T08:32:52Z klovett joined #scheme 2017-10-13T08:52:21Z bwv joined #scheme 2017-10-13T09:04:27Z bwv quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-13T09:07:33Z bwv joined #scheme 2017-10-13T09:16:57Z ecraven: ah, the fun... to get mit-scheme-git running on ubuntu, I need to install the mit-scheme package, then build the binary 9.2 distribution, install that, and use it to actually build -git ;) 2017-10-13T09:27:51Z ebzzry left #scheme 2017-10-13T09:54:05Z klovett quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-13T09:56:16Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-13T09:58:12Z jcowan_ joined #scheme 2017-10-13T10:01:05Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-13T10:04:48Z klovett joined #scheme 2017-10-13T10:08:56Z klovett quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-13T10:10:09Z brendyn quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-13T10:15:01Z klovett joined #scheme 2017-10-13T10:19:09Z brendyn joined #scheme 2017-10-13T10:49:48Z klovett quit 2017-10-13T10:52:37Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-13T10:53:11Z terpri joined #scheme 2017-10-13T11:00:04Z joast quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-13T11:05:36Z Anthaas_ joined #scheme 2017-10-13T11:23:32Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-13T11:40:50Z joast joined #scheme 2017-10-13T11:43:38Z mejja joined #scheme 2017-10-13T11:54:16Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-13T12:04:40Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-13T12:10:57Z marcux joined #scheme 2017-10-13T12:14:33Z gwatt: chez scheme 9.5(.1)! 2017-10-13T12:15:21Z cemerick_ joined #scheme 2017-10-13T12:23:01Z cemerick joined #scheme 2017-10-13T12:25:42Z cemerick_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-13T12:27:53Z ecraven: gwatt: build errors, I don't seem to have xlocale.h 2017-10-13T12:28:55Z ecraven: hm.. maybe linking /usr/include/locale.h to /usr/include/xlocale.h works ;) 2017-10-13T12:30:26Z ecraven: yep, that seems to do it 2017-10-13T12:38:16Z leppie quit 2017-10-13T12:42:07Z brendyn quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-13T12:44:57Z leppie joined #scheme 2017-10-13T12:45:55Z murii_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-13T12:53:23Z DGASAU joined #scheme 2017-10-13T12:55:28Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-13T13:09:34Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2017-10-13T13:27:27Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-13T13:32:31Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-13T13:35:17Z h3r3tek quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-13T13:35:38Z arbv quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-13T13:35:38Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-13T13:37:51Z arbv joined #scheme 2017-10-13T13:39:26Z cemerick_ joined #scheme 2017-10-13T13:43:03Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-13T13:50:33Z greatscottttt quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9) 2017-10-13T13:51:49Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-13T14:12:53Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-13T14:17:09Z leppie quit 2017-10-13T14:24:04Z tax joined #scheme 2017-10-13T14:30:20Z xzd_ joined #scheme 2017-10-13T14:31:12Z alezost joined #scheme 2017-10-13T14:31:45Z sz0 joined #scheme 2017-10-13T14:32:32Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-13T14:47:48Z yadzi quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-13T15:02:53Z cross joined #scheme 2017-10-13T15:08:53Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-13T15:17:02Z murii_ joined #scheme 2017-10-13T15:21:52Z mejja quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 56.0/20171003100843]) 2017-10-13T15:23:32Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-13T15:28:05Z araujo joined #scheme 2017-10-13T15:34:30Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-13T15:35:52Z wingo quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.1+deb1 - 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Some of the talks seem very interesting and it doesn't seem they were recorded as with the main talks. 2017-10-13T23:33:02Z wasamasa: I wish ICFP would spam us with links to their video recordings as much as they do with invitations and reminders to hand in talks 2017-10-13T23:35:38Z cromachina joined #scheme 2017-10-13T23:40:34Z deuill: Hah, hope I didn't hit a nerve. I'll take it that, since I'm having a hard time finding videos or slides for ICFP 2016 (outside of a list of papers at http://scheme2016.snow-fort.org), that it's a "no". 2017-10-13T23:45:35Z wasamasa: most of the activity on chicken-users are such emails :< 2017-10-13T23:52:34Z X-Scale: deuill: there's also #icfp-context 2017-10-13T23:55:55Z deuill: Not on Freenode, I assume? 2017-10-13T23:59:44Z X-Scale: Precisely on Freenode 2017-10-14T00:01:27Z deuill quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-14T00:02:26Z jim quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-14T00:05:16Z jim joined #scheme 2017-10-14T00:13:33Z cemerick joined #scheme 2017-10-14T00:16:24Z marvin2 quit (Quit: quit) 2017-10-14T00:18:40Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-14T00:30:22Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-14T00:32:48Z pjb joined #scheme 2017-10-14T00:36:10Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-14T00:53:04Z leppie joined #scheme 2017-10-14T00:59:27Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-14T01:34:21Z vicenteH` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-14T01:49:34Z excelsior quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-14T01:49:43Z excelsior joined #scheme 2017-10-14T01:52:33Z jcowan joined #scheme 2017-10-14T01:55:46Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-14T02:07:28Z ArneBab_ joined #scheme 2017-10-14T02:11:45Z ArneBab quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-14T02:22:57Z enderby joined #scheme 2017-10-14T02:26:48Z snits quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-14T02:34:42Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-14T02:36:44Z lritter joined #scheme 2017-10-14T02:46:03Z ertes joined #scheme 2017-10-14T02:54:23Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-10-14T03:00:54Z lritter_ joined #scheme 2017-10-14T03:04:21Z lritter quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-14T03:14:57Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-14T03:16:42Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-14T03:39:41Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-14T03:44:50Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Ex Chat) 2017-10-14T04:11:43Z dtornabene quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-14T04:17:24Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-14T04:22:22Z pilne quit (Quit: Quitting!) 2017-10-14T04:27:23Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-14T04:49:56Z snits joined #scheme 2017-10-14T04:53:53Z fgudin quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-14T04:53:53Z mlaine quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-14T04:54:48Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2017-10-14T05:04:50Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-14T05:10:16Z lritter_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-14T05:12:53Z jmd joined #scheme 2017-10-14T05:23:30Z jcowan joined #scheme 2017-10-14T05:32:37Z Fare joined #scheme 2017-10-14T05:39:06Z Murii|linux joined #scheme 2017-10-14T05:48:00Z bwv quit (Quit: bwv) 2017-10-14T05:50:09Z ecraven: gwatt: the xlocale.h problem should be fixed, a commit from yesterday ;) 2017-10-14T06:06:23Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-14T06:07:02Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-14T06:09:29Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-14T06:13:27Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-14T06:13:34Z pie_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-14T06:47:14Z muelleme joined #scheme 2017-10-14T06:47:37Z h3r3tek quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-14T06:47:56Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-14T06:51:22Z h3r3tek quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-14T06:51:32Z brendyn quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-14T06:51:42Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-14T06:51:54Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-14T06:55:48Z webshinra quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-14T06:58:57Z Murii|linux quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-14T07:00:44Z lambda-11235 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-14T07:06:55Z webshinra joined #scheme 2017-10-14T07:12:52Z Murii|linux joined #scheme 2017-10-14T07:39:20Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-14T07:42:36Z muelleme joined #scheme 2017-10-14T07:48:22Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-14T07:49:13Z DKordic joined #scheme 2017-10-14T07:54:39Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-14T07:54:41Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-14T07:58:25Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-14T08:07:47Z Khisanth joined #scheme 2017-10-14T08:42:39Z grublet joined #scheme 2017-10-14T09:05:28Z pjb joined #scheme 2017-10-14T09:25:16Z trux joined #scheme 2017-10-14T09:26:12Z trux: is it possible to see process generated by a function call in scheme, help me 2017-10-14T09:28:52Z qu1j0t3 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-14T09:34:00Z pjb: trux: there may be implementation specific tools, debuggers, tracers, steppers, etc. 2017-10-14T09:34:16Z pjb: trux: you may also write one. I wrote one for Common Lisp. 2017-10-14T09:35:56Z pjb: https://github.com/informatimago/lisp/tree/master/common-lisp/lisp 2017-10-14T09:43:28Z wasamasa: trux: the point of that exercise is to create one yourself by applying a particular evaluation strategy on paper 2017-10-14T09:47:08Z trux: wasamasa: how you get to know I'm solving exercise, btw I'm solving sicp, I'm following the paper approach, but sometime you know this is the process, but you too lazy to write multiple recursive processes for that case I want to see function evaluation 2017-10-14T09:47:49Z wasamasa: it's because SICP is the only thing calling it a process 2017-10-14T09:49:29Z trux: wasamasa: what other books & other people call ? I want to know ? 2017-10-14T09:49:39Z wasamasa: I haven't seen any name for it before 2017-10-14T09:50:05Z wasamasa: there's tracing, call chains, call frames, but none of these actually name it 2017-10-14T09:51:37Z trux: wasamasa: impostor syndrome I don't know anything about call chains, call frames, tracing, there is lot to learn ! 2017-10-14T09:51:47Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-14T09:52:29Z wasamasa: call chains/frames/stacks are mostly an implementation detail 2017-10-14T09:54:11Z trux: implementation details of what? please let me know 2017-10-14T09:54:25Z wasamasa: programming languages obviously 2017-10-14T09:56:27Z wasamasa: if you ever looked at a backtrace or calltrace, you've seen them 2017-10-14T10:25:21Z stratotanker joined #scheme 2017-10-14T10:37:00Z qu1j0t3 joined #scheme 2017-10-14T10:48:51Z marvin2 joined #scheme 2017-10-14T10:55:07Z stratotanker: Hi, someone can help with format? I need to print a string with a max-width... 2017-10-14T11:00:29Z jackdaniel: (format t "~A" (subseq my-string :start 0 :end (min max-width (length my-string)))) 2017-10-14T11:01:36Z jackdaniel: ah, not this channel 2017-10-14T11:01:47Z jackdaniel: sorry, it's probably about some other format 2017-10-14T11:11:05Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-14T11:11:57Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-14T11:12:58Z Murii|linux quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-14T11:16:41Z h3r3tek quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-14T11:19:00Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-14T11:19:31Z trux quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-14T11:41:48Z JuanDaugherty joined #scheme 2017-10-14T11:44:54Z trux joined #scheme 2017-10-14T11:46:29Z mlaine joined #scheme 2017-10-14T11:50:37Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-14T11:52:28Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-14T11:58:10Z vicenteH joined #scheme 2017-10-14T12:08:44Z jmd joined #scheme 2017-10-14T12:13:36Z bwv joined #scheme 2017-10-14T12:19:45Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-14T12:19:54Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-14T12:22:57Z acarrico quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-14T12:23:25Z trux: I'm running a function that will respectively compute 2^2^… (n-1 times), n is positive integer, can somebody explain me this mathematical formula? 2017-10-14T12:24:40Z LeoNerd: Isn't that the n-fold of exponentiation? 2017-10-14T12:24:46Z trux: btw this procedure is part of sicp exersise 1.10 2017-10-14T12:24:57Z LeoNerd: I don't know as if it has a name, partly because it isn't associative 2017-10-14T12:25:28Z LeoNerd: The n-fold of addition is called multipilcation. The n-fold of multiplication is called exponentiation. But the n-fold of that isn't well-named or well-defined due to nonassociativity 2017-10-14T12:26:25Z weinholt: look up Knuth's up-arrow notation 2017-10-14T12:28:47Z pjb: trux: 2^3 = 2*2*2 (a product of 3 occurences of 2). 2^2= 2*2 = 4 2^2^2 = 2^(2^2) = 2^4 = 2*2*2*2 (4 occurences of 2). 2017-10-14T12:29:35Z pjb: trux: 2^2^2^2 = 2^(2^(2^2)) = 2^16 = 2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2 = 65536, etc. 2017-10-14T12:30:21Z trux: pjb: you're right, I think I have to work on my maths skills to be a good programmer 2017-10-14T12:30:44Z pjb: trux: not really: these questions never occurs when you're a professional programmer. Never. 2017-10-14T12:30:50Z pjb: Whatever the kind of programming you do. 2017-10-14T12:31:19Z pjb: On the other hand, being able to think about those questions is a good thing for programmers: your brains need to be able to do it. 2017-10-14T12:32:26Z trux: but i have to study math to understand various mathematical notations that comes in books or cs research papers 2017-10-14T12:34:20Z pjb: The point here is to be able to decompose the formula in an abstract recursive definition. 2^…^2 (n occurences of 2) = 2^(2^…^2) = 2^( n-1 occurences of 2). so you can write (define (up-arrow factor n) (if (= 0 n) 1 (expt factor (up-arrow factor (- n 1))))) 2017-10-14T12:34:43Z pjb: Then try: (up-arrow 2 2) (up-arrow 2 3) (up-arrow 2 4) and prepare to be surprised by (up-arrow 2 5) 2017-10-14T12:35:04Z kori: oh heh I implemented up once, that was fun 2017-10-14T12:35:15Z pjb: This is the lesson for a programmer. You have to be aware of this kind of functions, to avoid programming code that will require more than the age of billions of universes to complete. 2017-10-14T12:37:32Z pjb: trux: try to evaluate how many times this universe will have to live before a procedure that would require (up-arrow 2 5) operations would complete… 2017-10-14T12:38:07Z pjb: (hint: it is estimated the life expectancy of this universe to be between 15 billion years and 200 billion years). 2017-10-14T12:40:07Z kori: https://github.com/kori/grund/blob/master/up.rkt 2017-10-14T12:40:16Z kori: here's a version that allows you to pick both numbers 2017-10-14T12:40:36Z kori: a^b, a^^b, etc. d times the number of arrows 2017-10-14T12:40:48Z trux: pjb: I don't know about Big-O notation also, time complexity, I have to study more to be a efficient programmer 2017-10-14T12:45:26Z trux: pjb: are you there 2017-10-14T12:46:38Z JuanDaugherty: knuth is only 79, i'd have guessed older 2017-10-14T12:49:36Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-14T12:55:45Z deuill joined #scheme 2017-10-14T12:56:02Z marcux quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-14T13:02:45Z pjb: I am. 2017-10-14T13:06:02Z trux: I don't know about Big-O notation also, time complexity, I have to study more to be a efficient programmer 2017-10-14T13:06:15Z trux: pjb: please answer 2017-10-14T13:06:43Z pjb: Where is the question? 2017-10-14T13:07:07Z trux: I don't know about Big-O notation also, time complexity, I have to study more to be a efficient programmer 2017-10-14T13:07:23Z pjb: I see no question there. 2017-10-14T13:08:09Z trux: pjb: i'm asking about big-o notation, & time & space complexity of programs? 2017-10-14T13:08:19Z pjb: What are you asking about them? 2017-10-14T13:08:38Z JuanDaugherty: i think he wants to know the complexity of the power function 2017-10-14T13:08:39Z pjb: the answer to that question is no. 2017-10-14T13:08:49Z pjb: A negation and an affirmation doesn't make a question. 2017-10-14T13:09:04Z JuanDaugherty: in scheme/lisp presumably 2017-10-14T13:09:25Z JuanDaugherty: *he or she 2017-10-14T13:09:25Z pjb: Adding a question mark to a negation or an affirmation may transform it into a question, but that calls for a yes or no answer only. 2017-10-14T13:10:58Z kori: JuanDaugherty: they, for brevity 2017-10-14T13:11:16Z JuanDaugherty: well i generally use the spivak(ish) ihr 2017-10-14T13:11:41Z JuanDaugherty: but only works well in direct not indirect 2017-10-14T13:12:26Z JuanDaugherty: generic/plural works too, again in specific contexts 2017-10-14T13:12:37Z marcux joined #scheme 2017-10-14T13:13:07Z JuanDaugherty: there are better ways to cheat on course work than irc, the complexity of the power function is easy to look up 2017-10-14T13:13:09Z marcux quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-14T13:13:27Z kori: JuanDaugherty: singular they is a-ok in my books but w/e i realize it can sound odd 2017-10-14T13:13:42Z pjb: One good way to cheat it, is to learnabout big-O and time complexity and to study more… 2017-10-14T13:13:42Z marcux joined #scheme 2017-10-14T13:13:55Z JuanDaugherty: gah, that would be the hard 2017-10-14T13:13:57Z JuanDaugherty: don't want 2017-10-14T13:15:42Z marcux quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-14T13:15:45Z JuanDaugherty: just wanna get my degree/cert/whatever, the standard 5-10 year doer burnout, then move on 2017-10-14T13:16:04Z JuanDaugherty: to mgmt 2017-10-14T13:16:42Z pjb: Well, it's already bad that with a given degree, you would try to compete with us, professional programmers, but if you want to become our bosses eventually, just go fuck yourself! 2017-10-14T13:16:52Z JuanDaugherty: or maybe jus 2-3 yrs 2017-10-14T13:17:21Z JuanDaugherty: well somebody got fucked, en masse 2017-10-14T13:17:43Z JuanDaugherty: not me, i stayed a doer till pension time 2017-10-14T13:17:54Z JuanDaugherty: pension = fuck you back money 2017-10-14T13:18:58Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-14T13:19:08Z JuanDaugherty: is racket still the most popular scheme these days? 2017-10-14T13:19:57Z JuanDaugherty: *stayed a rude, stiff necked doer 2017-10-14T13:20:26Z JuanDaugherty: btw, saw an exon mobile oder commercial the other day that was all about "doers" 2017-10-14T13:20:40Z JuanDaugherty: maybe some financial entity 2017-10-14T13:21:07Z JuanDaugherty: goldman sucks perhaps 2017-10-14T13:22:03Z trux: pjb: I was not cheating, I do not understand mathematical notation, that's why i ask you guys, I feel I lack in Big-O notation that's why I raise those points?, I want to become a good programmer! 2017-10-14T13:22:30Z JuanDaugherty: also "competing" is internalizing your masters logic 2017-10-14T13:22:39Z pjb: trux: you need to learn the grammar to ask question. You still haven't asked any question! 2017-10-14T13:22:52Z pjb: "I feel I lack in Big-O notation that's why I raise those points?" answer is: "No." 2017-10-14T13:23:18Z pjb: But really, just adding a question mark to an affirmation doesn't make it a question. 2017-10-14T13:23:22Z JuanDaugherty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EECbytMciDs (it was exon mobil, pleasing to see memory working right) 2017-10-14T13:23:36Z trux: pjb: sorry 2017-10-14T13:23:57Z JuanDaugherty: you wanna know the complexity of the power form you gave, don't you? 2017-10-14T13:23:57Z pjb: trux: try: https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/en/quick-grammar/question-forms-subjectobject-questions 2017-10-14T13:24:48Z trux: JaunDaugherty: ? 2017-10-14T13:25:44Z pjb: trux: if you google for big-o you will find a lot of tutorials and deeper information to learn about it. 2017-10-14T13:25:54Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-14T13:26:10Z trux: pjb: ok 2017-10-14T13:28:51Z trux: pjb: I'm confuse on math part, from where should i start in mathematics for cs? 2017-10-14T13:29:01Z stratotanker: jackdaniel tanx 2017-10-14T13:33:28Z trux quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-14T13:33:30Z JuanDaugherty: trux, the mentioned Don Knuth's books would be one way 2017-10-14T13:33:52Z grublet quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-14T13:34:04Z JuanDaugherty: (the Art of Computer Programming) 2017-10-14T13:34:34Z JuanDaugherty: but there's not easy gloss 2017-10-14T13:34:39Z JuanDaugherty: *no easy 2017-10-14T13:35:05Z JuanDaugherty: should be a wiki article on O notation 2017-10-14T13:35:47Z JuanDaugherty: oh, didn see left 2017-10-14T13:42:07Z JuanDaugherty: maybe the topic needs the standard thing advising irc noobies, second time I've seen that today 2017-10-14T13:52:27Z enderby quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-14T13:53:28Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-14T13:55:25Z deuill: wasamasa, read through the "CHICKEN in the Forest" slides, really interesting. 2017-10-14T14:03:47Z deuill: Wondering if Bones was evaluated? It seems fairly unique in that it produces assembly without using C as an intermediate language, and allows for linking against a basic library without the need of libc. 2017-10-14T14:04:36Z deuill: Also is fairly minimal, (apparently) self-hosting, and somewhat fast (if the benchmarks are of any indication), albeit being unmaintained for some time now. 2017-10-14T14:05:28Z bwv quit (Quit: bwv) 2017-10-14T14:11:26Z Murii|linux joined #scheme 2017-10-14T14:26:41Z ertes quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-14T14:27:48Z wasamasa: deuill: I'm fairly sure BONES isn't r7rs 2017-10-14T14:28:06Z wasamasa: deuill: but funnily enough, we talked a bit about it, mostly how it's worth playing around with 2017-10-14T14:28:47Z deuill: Apparently it's R5RS with some R7RS parts (enough to appear on https://github.com/ecraven/r7rs-benchmarks, I presume) 2017-10-14T14:29:15Z wasamasa: yeah, r7rs-benchmarks doesn't really leverage r7rs support and just mocks out enough for the tests to run 2017-10-14T14:29:56Z deuill: Ah, interesting, makes sense. 2017-10-14T14:30:00Z wasamasa: felix says that the big issue with BONES is that while it's pretty fast and he gets to fixing bugs people report, its backend isn't abstracted away nearly enough 2017-10-14T14:30:33Z X-Scale quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!) 2017-10-14T14:31:19Z qu1j0t3: x86 only? 2017-10-14T14:31:21Z deuill: I assume Chicken takes most of his time/attention anyways. 2017-10-14T14:31:47Z qu1j0t3: JuanDaugherty | but there's not easy gloss || Skiena's The Algorithm Design Manual might qualify 2017-10-14T14:31:53Z deuill: It produces x86_64 assembly instructions, which are then fed through NASM. 2017-10-14T14:32:19Z wasamasa: qu1j0t3: yes 2017-10-14T14:34:08Z civodul joined #scheme 2017-10-14T14:41:19Z JuanDaugherty: qu1j0t3, sure, there's a lot more concise than AoP, and at roughly same quality but a gloss is like a cheat sheet 2017-10-14T14:42:53Z JuanDaugherty: 700 pages isn't a gloss 2017-10-14T14:45:08Z JuanDaugherty: also knuth introduces O notation on p 100 of v 1 2017-10-14T14:45:43Z JuanDaugherty: (c. p 100) 2017-10-14T14:47:12Z qu1j0t3: JuanDaugherty: the Big-Oh stuff in ADM is only a dozen pages, but sure, not a cheat sheet. Pretty sure such things exist though. 2017-10-14T14:48:00Z JuanDaugherty: prolly somekina something 2017-10-14T14:59:11Z Riastradh: What pjb said -- that `these questions never occur when you're a professional programmer' -- is not quite true. Software companies today still ask you to do inane whiteboard coding to solve questions like these in interviews, even software companies that should know better. 2017-10-14T15:07:32Z qu1j0t3: i'd be pretty concerned about what somebody with no knowledge of time complexity would do if hired 2017-10-14T15:07:53Z qu1j0t3: unless there were thorough code review and mentoring systems in place... 2017-10-14T15:14:23Z Riastradh: I mean inane whiteboard coding things like `implement tetration'. 2017-10-14T15:15:12Z Murii|linux quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-14T15:22:30Z arbv quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-14T15:23:05Z JuanDaugherty: gotta compete, right? 2017-10-14T15:38:12Z JuanDaugherty: i imagine that's more of a US thing than EU 2017-10-14T15:39:40Z JuanDaugherty: but maybe not, didn used to be as much of a thing here, initially not at all 2017-10-14T15:40:58Z JuanDaugherty: initially meaning before the 90s, the first whiteboard interview I remember was at dunn and bradstreet in basking ridge nj, spring of 91 2017-10-14T15:41:24Z Murii|linux joined #scheme 2017-10-14T15:44:19Z JuanDaugherty: but things were still pretty collegiate at that point, the last at shitty valley thing called bitcasa c. 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2017-10-16T09:25:12Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-16T09:40:43Z wigust joined #scheme 2017-10-16T09:42:20Z Anthaas_ quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-16T09:51:01Z excelsior quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-16T09:51:19Z excelsior joined #scheme 2017-10-16T09:52:01Z hicoleri: Why can't I set the value of a local variable inside a function to a global variable using define? 2017-10-16T09:55:42Z hicoleri: for example:(define a 1) (define (b c) ((define d a)) a) 2017-10-16T09:56:40Z DKordic: hicoleri: Simply because the purpose of `define' is not "destructive" change. Use `set!'! 2017-10-16T09:57:01Z DKordic: hicoleri: Nonsense!! 2017-10-16T09:59:54Z hicoleri: oh wait it was a syntax error sorry 2017-10-16T09:59:59Z Steverman joined #scheme 2017-10-16T10:00:37Z hicoleri left #scheme 2017-10-16T10:02:55Z hicoleri joined #scheme 2017-10-16T10:11:17Z hicoleri: so this may be also be a syntax error, but what am I doing wrong over here: https://hastebin.com/loxuzulika.pas? 2017-10-16T10:14:29Z Steverman quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-16T10:17:25Z marvin2 joined #scheme 2017-10-16T10:22:05Z DKordic: hastebin.com doesn't work for me. http://termbin.com/ is reasonable. 2017-10-16T10:24:16Z hicoleri: http://termbin.com/7dtc 2017-10-16T10:34:10Z DKordic: hicoleri: Won't work for ``(cons whatever circular-list)''? What is opening paren on the end of lines 7, 10, 19 and 21?! 2017-10-16T10:40:47Z hicoleri: I went into an editor and didn't see any misplaced parantheses. I know that these procedures will not work with the case you described but still, what is causing the error? 2017-10-16T10:42:03Z mejja joined #scheme 2017-10-16T10:42:58Z DKordic: What is on line 7? 2017-10-16T10:43:30Z hicoleri: the procedure declaration? 2017-10-16T10:44:16Z DKordic: What is the purpose of ``('' at the end of it!? 2017-10-16T10:45:07Z hicoleri: AH okay, okay. I'm really sorry 2017-10-16T10:46:37Z mejja: quick fix: https://hastebin.com/wibayuxuwa.vbs 2017-10-16T10:49:07Z hicoleri: thanks 2017-10-16T11:00:53Z wigust quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-16T11:04:20Z wigust joined #scheme 2017-10-16T11:10:05Z wigust quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-16T11:14:38Z DKordic quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-16T11:49:42Z hicoleri left #scheme 2017-10-16T12:09:21Z brendyn quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-16T12:14:27Z brendyn joined #scheme 2017-10-16T12:21:01Z wigust joined #scheme 2017-10-16T12:31:57Z Steverman joined #scheme 2017-10-16T12:37:33Z leppie quit 2017-10-16T12:37:45Z DKordic joined #scheme 2017-10-16T12:43:59Z civodul joined #scheme 2017-10-16T12:47:07Z jcowan joined #scheme 2017-10-16T13:06:22Z ecraven: Riastradh: have you kept up to date with current MIT/GNU Scheme git port changes? it seems port/state returns textual-port-type instead of textual-port-state. (I haven't understood yet where port/state is defined, so I can't offer a fix) 2017-10-16T13:15:11Z Steverman quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-16T13:31:33Z brendyn quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-16T13:36:07Z sz0 joined #scheme 2017-10-16T13:37:00Z Steverman joined #scheme 2017-10-16T13:39:03Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-16T13:40:14Z brendyn joined #scheme 2017-10-16T13:40:37Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-16T13:44:38Z mejja: ecraven: look in runtime.pkg ;-) 2017-10-16T13:45:31Z brendyn quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-16T13:48:15Z marvin2 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-16T14:01:05Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-16T14:03:45Z brendyn joined #scheme 2017-10-16T14:11:14Z jao joined #scheme 2017-10-16T14:16:26Z daviid joined #scheme 2017-10-16T14:22:25Z murii_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-16T14:29:10Z emacsomancer quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-16T14:32:12Z klovett joined #scheme 2017-10-16T14:35:05Z Steverman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-16T14:35:27Z Riastradh: ecraven: Fixed. 2017-10-16T14:37:42Z bwv joined #scheme 2017-10-16T14:38:40Z mejja: Riastradh: comment out the string-fill! in trace-display in advice.scm while you're at it.. 2017-10-16T14:39:30Z mejja: "..." is a bit silly in a post hardware terminal world 2017-10-16T14:51:13Z brendyn quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-16T14:58:59Z Murii joined #scheme 2017-10-16T15:06:03Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-16T15:09:29Z brendyn joined #scheme 2017-10-16T15:10:23Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-16T15:14:09Z brendyn quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-16T15:16:17Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-16T15:18:28Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-16T15:24:41Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-16T15:25:27Z wigust quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-16T15:27:31Z wigust joined #scheme 2017-10-16T15:38:39Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-16T15:57:49Z nckx quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-16T15:58:58Z nckx joined #scheme 2017-10-16T16:00:34Z greatscottttt quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9) 2017-10-16T16:01:47Z cemerick joined #scheme 2017-10-16T16:10:52Z manualcrank joined #scheme 2017-10-16T16:14:20Z danly joined #scheme 2017-10-16T16:16:04Z _bob_ joined #scheme 2017-10-16T16:17:30Z muelleme joined #scheme 2017-10-16T16:19:32Z mejja quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 56.0/20171003100843]) 2017-10-16T16:22:56Z _bob_ left #scheme 2017-10-16T16:23:20Z smazga joined #scheme 2017-10-16T16:34:05Z sethalves quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-16T16:38:14Z sethalves joined #scheme 2017-10-16T16:38:18Z jmd joined #scheme 2017-10-16T16:39:35Z civodul quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-16T16:43:45Z ecraven: Riastradh: thanks 2017-10-16T16:44:20Z ecraven: also, string-trim is broken, (string-trim "\"\"" (char-set-invert (char-set #\"))) fails (calls something like (substring str 2 0)). I'll debug later and send a fix to the mailing list 2017-10-16T16:44:34Z ecraven: and http-client is broken too, I already sent an email about that. I'm not sure how to fix it :-/ 2017-10-16T16:46:05Z Murii quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-16T16:55:30Z ecraven: (string-trim "\"\"" (char-set-invert (char-set #\"))) -> The object 2, passed as an argument to substring, is not in the correct range. 2017-10-16T17:06:55Z Steverman joined #scheme 2017-10-16T17:10:43Z cemerick_ joined #scheme 2017-10-16T17:14:09Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-16T17:16:02Z leppie joined #scheme 2017-10-16T17:19:48Z ecraven: Riastradh: I've sent a possible patch for the string-trim problem to the mailing list, if it's not too much trouble, maybe you could take a look later 2017-10-16T17:19:54Z ecraven: it's a trivial problem and fix 2017-10-16T17:30:10Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-16T17:35:28Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-16T17:37:02Z leppie quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-16T17:41:44Z klovett quit 2017-10-16T17:44:11Z leppie joined #scheme 2017-10-16T17:50:00Z cemerick joined #scheme 2017-10-16T17:52:34Z cemerick_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-16T17:53:03Z bwv quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-16T17:53:36Z black_hat_cross joined #scheme 2017-10-16T17:53:56Z bwv joined #scheme 2017-10-16T17:56:44Z black_hat_cross: Hi I'm new to scheme is there anyway to do a new line in the scheme interpreter? 2017-10-16T18:03:42Z ketralnis: Which scheme? 2017-10-16T18:06:30Z pjb: (newline) 2017-10-16T18:06:34Z pjb: it's standard IIRC. 2017-10-16T18:07:14Z pjb: yes, it's in r5rs. 2017-10-16T18:07:52Z pjb: and r5rs is not even 50 pages! 2017-10-16T18:08:56Z wasamasa: black_hat_cross: (newline) 2017-10-16T18:09:24Z black_hat_cross: thanks! 2017-10-16T18:09:36Z wasamasa: I'd generally welcome to study whatever standard you're targetting 2017-10-16T18:09:48Z black_hat_cross: 9.2 2017-10-16T18:09:53Z wasamasa: r5rs is the most common one and like 50 pages, once you're done with that you can explore your implementation's extensions 2017-10-16T18:10:01Z wasamasa: 9.2 sounds like a mit-scheme version :D 2017-10-16T18:10:11Z black_hat_cross: yeah that one 2017-10-16T18:10:28Z wasamasa: err, recommend, not welcome 2017-10-16T18:10:34Z wasamasa is too sleepy these days 2017-10-16T18:11:14Z black_hat_cross: I'm actually going through the SICP book 2017-10-16T18:11:30Z wasamasa: good idea, that 2017-10-16T18:23:07Z cemerick_ joined #scheme 2017-10-16T18:26:01Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-16T18:28:15Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-16T18:30:14Z Murii joined #scheme 2017-10-16T18:31:34Z kilimanjaro quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-16T18:31:59Z kilimanjaro joined #scheme 2017-10-16T18:34:32Z trux joined #scheme 2017-10-16T18:41:06Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-16T18:45:35Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-16T18:50:24Z vicenteH` joined #scheme 2017-10-16T18:51:45Z vicenteH quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-16T18:52:01Z vicenteH` is now known as vicenteH 2017-10-16T18:55:56Z jaseemabid joined #scheme 2017-10-16T18:58:41Z terpri joined #scheme 2017-10-16T18:59:06Z jaseemabid: Is getprop and putprop a chez specific thing? I'm trying to make my code work on various interpreters just out of curiosity and guile and chicken seems to not understand prop lists on symbols. 2017-10-16T18:59:45Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-16T19:01:12Z jaseemabid: Should I write code as per some standard (r6rs or r7rs) to make it compatible with various compilers? I cant find much info about this online. 2017-10-16T19:07:48Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-16T19:12:14Z alezost joined #scheme 2017-10-16T19:14:21Z klovett joined #scheme 2017-10-16T19:14:23Z cemerick_ is now known as cemerick 2017-10-16T19:14:46Z trux quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-16T19:19:02Z h3r3tek joined #scheme 2017-10-16T19:20:27Z wasamasa: uh, yes 2017-10-16T19:20:50Z wasamasa: the problem is just that r6rs is incompatible to both r5rs and r7rs 2017-10-16T19:22:22Z wasamasa: so you're screwed either way 2017-10-16T19:22:22Z wasamasa: r5rs is portable if you don't use any libraries whatsoever, r7rs-small is with libraries, but even then requires special care when actually loading custom ones 2017-10-16T19:22:33Z wasamasa: because loading was intentionally left unspecified 2017-10-16T19:23:40Z Riastradh: ecraven: Can you write some automatic tests for this string-trim thing? 2017-10-16T19:27:13Z Menche quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-16T19:28:27Z wasamasa: jaseemabid: FWIW, property lists are a CL thing, I'd stick to alists in some variable 2017-10-16T19:28:53Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-16T19:33:42Z Menche joined #scheme 2017-10-16T19:36:51Z mejja joined #scheme 2017-10-16T19:40:54Z jaseemabid: wasamasa, Riastradh I don't think I'd need many libraries for my current app, so I'll stick with maybe r7 small and see if 2017-10-16T19:42:09Z jaseemabid: I can make it work with multiple scheme implementations. I was looking for chez alternatives because 1) bad error messages (no linum for example), 2) non existent docs, 3) no linters, compile time warnings etc 2017-10-16T19:43:08Z civodul joined #scheme 2017-10-16T19:45:06Z aeth: What I generally see in portable Scheme libraries is that they have a file that implements what's missing in each implementation. 2017-10-16T19:45:38Z aeth: (or at least those files give things a consistent API) 2017-10-16T19:46:41Z jaseemabid quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-16T19:59:27Z ecraven: Riastradh: yes, a few minutes 2017-10-16T20:21:32Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-16T20:22:28Z n_blownapart joined #scheme 2017-10-16T20:27:54Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-16T20:30:35Z Murii quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-16T20:38:30Z alezost quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-16T20:41:44Z n_blownapart quit 2017-10-16T20:54:57Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-16T20:56:15Z terpri joined #scheme 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quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-17T02:58:52Z serhart joined #scheme 2017-10-17T03:01:00Z serhart quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-17T03:10:26Z klovett joined #scheme 2017-10-17T03:22:35Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-17T03:38:52Z dpk quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-17T03:40:12Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-17T03:45:34Z dpk joined #scheme 2017-10-17T03:59:59Z aoh quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-17T04:06:32Z nicklaf joined #scheme 2017-10-17T04:07:50Z aoh joined #scheme 2017-10-17T04:08:33Z nicklaf: Does anybody have a recommended Scheme for learning the language? Especially one with good debugging and interactivity. I am not particuarly keen on Racket. I have Chicken but it seems to be more geared toward compiling to C 2017-10-17T04:08:51Z nicklaf: i'm thinking Guile or MIT scheme but i'm not sure 2017-10-17T04:10:32Z mrm: nicklaf: If you're not particularly keen on Racket, you could still try something like #lang sicp in Racket. 2017-10-17T04:11:55Z nicklaf: mrm: that's not a bad idea. It's certainly worth playing around in. I'll probably still look for other implementations as well though. 2017-10-17T04:12:41Z nicklaf: i've read that Guile is still somewhat incomplete 2017-10-17T04:13:23Z nicklaf: to be honest i might just default to chicken since it seems to be pretty solid 2017-10-17T04:15:27Z mrm: Fair. Cheney on the MTA is really cool. 2017-10-17T04:19:30Z pie_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-17T04:22:36Z Vermie joined #scheme 2017-10-17T04:22:39Z Vermie: Hello? 2017-10-17T04:27:17Z dtornabene joined #scheme 2017-10-17T04:31:48Z Vermie: soegard: ? 2017-10-17T04:33:54Z bwv quit (Quit: bwv) 2017-10-17T04:40:50Z jaseemabid joined #scheme 2017-10-17T04:47:08Z jaseemabid quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-17T04:47:26Z jaseemabid joined #scheme 2017-10-17T04:51:09Z klovett quit 2017-10-17T04:56:05Z nicklaf: Gerbil looks interesting. Maybe a reason to learn about the Racket way of doing things since it seems to draw from its features 2017-10-17T04:57:27Z Vermie: nicklaf: Wait, it's Scheme in Scheme? 2017-10-17T04:57:56Z nicklaf: i'm not sure about that 2017-10-17T04:58:45Z nicklaf: it says it runs on top of gambit 2017-10-17T04:59:07Z Vermie: nicklaf: Isn't Gambit... Gambit Scheme? 2017-10-17T04:59:20Z nicklaf: oops my mistake 2017-10-17T04:59:29Z nicklaf: i meant to say that Gerbil runs on gambit 2017-10-17T04:59:45Z nicklaf: i don't know the implementation details 2017-10-17T05:00:02Z Vermie: I'm so confused -- how can it be its own macro implementation if it is Scheme? Hmmm... 2017-10-17T05:00:12Z Vermie: ...wait that's a dumb question 2017-10-17T05:00:48Z nicklaf: you may be overthinking my remarks. i know hardly anything about this schem :) 2017-10-17T05:03:41Z Vermie: Oh, are you also interested in Racket? 2017-10-17T05:04:12Z nicklaf: mildly 2017-10-17T05:04:27Z nicklaf: actually Gerbil says it borrows modules from PLT Scheme and not Racket 2017-10-17T05:04:40Z Vermie: nicklaf: PLT Scheme __is__ Racket 2017-10-17T05:04:48Z Vermie: PLT Scheme changed its name to Racket a bit ago 2017-10-17T05:04:51Z nicklaf: yeah i know 2017-10-17T05:05:00Z Vermie: ?? hm... 2017-10-17T05:05:14Z Vermie: Was there a difference? I don't really know actually... 2017-10-17T05:05:24Z nicklaf: https://github.com/vyzo/gerbil 2017-10-17T05:05:38Z nicklaf: " It also provides a full-blown module system, similar to PLT Scheme's (sorry, Racket) modules." 2017-10-17T05:05:45Z Vermie: > single instantiation 2017-10-17T05:05:48Z Vermie: I wonder what that means... 2017-10-17T05:05:56Z nicklaf: so maybe the module system changed between the PLT and Racket name change 2017-10-17T05:06:08Z Vermie: And how does that work? Does he restrict importing of macros? 2017-10-17T05:06:19Z Vermie: My god macros suck 2017-10-17T05:06:30Z Vermie: Or, I mean, they're great but also really hard to implement 2017-10-17T05:08:23Z nicklaf: i wonder if scheme48 is worth playing with 2017-10-17T05:08:51Z nicklaf: people are saying it's not really maintained at this point 2017-10-17T05:10:22Z Vermie: What is that? 2017-10-17T05:10:58Z nicklaf: oh, just another scheme implementation ;) 2017-10-17T05:11:10Z nicklaf: s48.org 2017-10-17T05:13:20Z Vermie: i see 2017-10-17T05:13:41Z Vermie: Im actually building one too :) 2017-10-17T05:13:48Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-17T05:14:00Z nicklaf: i wonder how many scheme implementations there are out there 2017-10-17T05:15:26Z Vermie: nicklaf: There's a ton! http://community.schemewiki.org/?scheme-faq-standards#implementations 2017-10-17T05:15:39Z Vermie: oh my gosh there's a ton O.O 2017-10-17T05:16:34Z nicklaf: Stalin Scheme heh 2017-10-17T05:17:28Z Vermie: oh boy 2017-10-17T05:18:29Z hive-mind quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-17T05:21:06Z nicklaf: is racket the only scheme that is written in itself and doesn't rely on C 2017-10-17T05:22:51Z ecraven: how would you bootstrap such a thing? 2017-10-17T05:23:29Z nicklaf: i think they started with a C implementation 2017-10-17T05:23:43Z ecraven: so it *does* rely on C :P 2017-10-17T05:23:55Z nicklaf: i think they rewrote it in racket though 2017-10-17T05:24:04Z nicklaf: and compiled it with the original C implementation 2017-10-17T05:24:14Z nicklaf: but it can presumably compile itself now 2017-10-17T05:24:31Z nicklaf: so technically yes i guess :) 2017-10-17T05:26:08Z hive-mind joined #scheme 2017-10-17T05:28:28Z Vermie: nicklaf: It's still a core C implementation 2017-10-17T05:28:43Z nicklaf: oh it is? hmm 2017-10-17T05:28:53Z nicklaf: i'm reading an interesting article on guile bootstrapping 2017-10-17T05:28:59Z nicklaf: http://wingolog.org/archives/2016/01/11/the-half-strap-self-hosting-and-guile 2017-10-17T05:29:00Z Vermie: Racket's garbage collection is written in C, as well as its core variant types 2017-10-17T05:29:29Z nicklaf: ah ok. so maybe it was just the compiler that was rewritten in racket 2017-10-17T05:29:29Z Vermie: > the bytecode interpreter 2017-10-17T05:29:47Z Vermie: Probably. In fact, Racket is currently being converted to run on Chez Scheme, acquired by Cisco 2017-10-17T05:30:01Z nicklaf: ah yes i read about that 2017-10-17T05:30:09Z nicklaf: "nd although the performance of Guile is pretty great these days, a user's first experience with it will probably be building it, which is a process that takes approximately forever." 2017-10-17T05:30:12Z Vermie: Matthew is a boss 2017-10-17T05:30:22Z Vermie: He's awesome. He even responds to my emails :) 2017-10-17T05:34:36Z nicklaf: since all these scheme implementations depend on C in some way, it seems to make sense to think about a functional dialect of C 2017-10-17T05:34:42Z nicklaf: scheme48 has something called pre-scheme 2017-10-17T05:34:58Z nicklaf: you can convert it to C or even just execute it in scheme48 2017-10-17T05:35:36Z nicklaf: i'm looking at a book that teaches C to people who already know SML 2017-10-17T05:35:43Z nicklaf: maybe good to eliminate bad habits 2017-10-17T05:36:25Z kvda joined #scheme 2017-10-17T05:36:39Z nicklaf: i wonder if anybody thought to implement scheme in ML, and just skip C altogether 2017-10-17T05:37:37Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-17T05:37:47Z Vermie: nicklaf: What do you mean by "skip C?" 2017-10-17T05:38:09Z nicklaf: fair point 2017-10-17T05:38:20Z nicklaf: at any rate if it runs on Unix C code is running at some point 2017-10-17T05:38:33Z nicklaf: but maybe better to write as much code in a functional language as possible 2017-10-17T05:38:44Z nicklaf: MLton is a fast optimizing compiler for such a language, for example 2017-10-17T05:39:01Z nicklaf: and i'd imagine that most scheme implementaitons try to stick to functional dialicts of C anyway 2017-10-17T05:39:27Z nicklaf: for example there's this 2017-10-17T05:39:29Z nicklaf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PreScheme 2017-10-17T05:39:36Z nicklaf: which Scheme48 is implemented in AFAIK 2017-10-17T05:40:03Z Vermie: Meh. I'm still waiting for a simple, low-level functional language 2017-10-17T05:40:35Z nicklaf: i think the haskell people have done work here 2017-10-17T05:50:41Z Khisanth joined #scheme 2017-10-17T05:58:57Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-17T06:00:44Z Vermie: nicklaf: Haskell is not low level lol 2017-10-17T06:01:04Z nicklaf: not Haskell itself 2017-10-17T06:01:10Z nicklaf: the work had to do with GHC 2017-10-17T06:01:16Z Vermie: ??? 2017-10-17T06:01:19Z nicklaf: for example there was C-- led by SPJ 2017-10-17T06:01:19Z Vermie: confused 2017-10-17T06:01:41Z nicklaf: it's not human readable 2017-10-17T06:01:59Z nicklaf: but it fills the role that C provides 2017-10-17T06:02:22Z nicklaf: actually i can't help but wonder if the reason C is so necessary even today is because C's semantics aren't well defined 2017-10-17T06:03:23Z nicklaf: "However, C is a poor choice for functional languages: it does not support tail call optimization, accurate garbage collection or efficient exception handling. C-- is a simpler, tightly-defined alternative to C which does support all of these things." 2017-10-17T06:03:37Z nicklaf: I guess i better read the Cheney on the MTA paper to see how chicken gets around this limitation of C 2017-10-17T06:05:13Z nicklaf: "Unix and C are the ultimate computer viruses." 2017-10-17T06:07:11Z kvda quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2017-10-17T06:10:30Z Vermie quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-17T06:11:25Z wasamasa: nicklaf: there's always the occasional discussion of switching out backends for CHICKEN 2017-10-17T06:12:07Z dmiles quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-17T06:12:14Z nicklaf: interesting 2017-10-17T06:13:07Z wasamasa: but it's too hard at this point because there is no proper abstraction around them 2017-10-17T06:14:16Z nicklaf: abstraction around the existing chicken code? Or... 2017-10-17T06:14:33Z wasamasa: around the parts emitting C code 2017-10-17T06:14:43Z nicklaf: i see 2017-10-17T06:17:33Z wasamasa: also, such a change would ruin the ability to just embed arbitrary C code in your compiled modules 2017-10-17T06:18:28Z wasamasa: then there's the question what backend would be worth switching to 2017-10-17T06:19:00Z wasamasa: LLVM is the obvious choice, but it's huge, complicated, written in C++ and they keep breaking API 2017-10-17T06:20:01Z wasamasa: emitting x64 assembly has been done in BONES, but good luck doing that for all other supported platforms 2017-10-17T06:20:15Z wasamasa: qbe might be interesting, but I suspect it's too immature 2017-10-17T06:20:28Z nicklaf: what about emitting common lisp? 2017-10-17T06:21:03Z nicklaf: although i'm not sure what that buys you since you don't know how it will be compiled 2017-10-17T06:21:25Z wasamasa: well, it doesn't buy you anything 2017-10-17T06:21:28Z nicklaf: heh 2017-10-17T06:21:49Z nicklaf: i was under the impression that there were good backends for common lisp compilers 2017-10-17T06:22:04Z wasamasa: quite a bunch of them do their own native codegen 2017-10-17T06:22:59Z nicklaf: i guess it doesn't quite make sense though to talk about because surely the common lisp system will have its own garbage collector 2017-10-17T06:23:27Z nicklaf: maybe it can be turned off though 2017-10-17T06:23:30Z wasamasa: well, that would make one less thing to worry about 2017-10-17T06:23:43Z wasamasa: because you'd need to also port the runtime bits for the new backend, including GC 2017-10-17T06:23:52Z nicklaf: right 2017-10-17T06:24:08Z nicklaf: the GC seems to be something that is usually implemented in C in scheme implementations 2017-10-17T06:24:34Z wasamasa: however CL and POSIX doesn't look so good, so I wouldn't bet on that :P 2017-10-17T06:26:05Z nicklaf: apparently scheme48 was bootstrapped using a scheme to common lisp compiler 2017-10-17T06:26:11Z nicklaf: http://mumble.net/~jar/pseudoscheme/ 2017-10-17T06:26:35Z nicklaf: but now we are going back in history rather than forward 2017-10-17T06:26:46Z wasamasa: there's a more recent effort for such a thing 2017-10-17T06:28:05Z nicklaf: i'd be curious to read about it 2017-10-17T06:28:32Z lritter_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-17T06:29:05Z ecraven: nicklaf: I don't think *anything* can claim to bootstrip without C 2017-10-17T06:29:09Z wasamasa: nicklaf: someone in here occasionally posts about it 2017-10-17T06:29:16Z wasamasa: ecraven: but what about the assembly based things?? 2017-10-17T06:29:24Z ecraven: wasamasa: how do you write the assembler? 2017-10-17T06:29:29Z nicklaf: Oberon :) 2017-10-17T06:29:49Z dmiles joined #scheme 2017-10-17T06:29:59Z jaseemabid quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-17T06:30:12Z ecraven: you run into the same thing as MIT/GNU Scheme then, you need an existing mit-scheme installed in order to build mit-scheme... 2017-10-17T06:30:23Z wasamasa: an existing assembler sounds fine to me 2017-10-17T06:30:29Z ecraven: (yes, there is a C backend, it's just not trivial to build :) 2017-10-17T06:30:31Z wasamasa: also, don't forget the things bootstrapped with C++ 2017-10-17T06:30:49Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-17T06:30:49Z dmiles quit (Excess Flood) 2017-10-17T06:30:55Z ecraven: well, you could argue that C++ was bootstrapped with C, just for the sake of argument :P 2017-10-17T06:31:17Z nicklaf: if we want to argue this point, anything that runs on unix uses C at runtime 2017-10-17T06:31:57Z nicklaf: what's interesting to me is reducing the amount of C in the meaningful parts of the program 2017-10-17T06:32:17Z wasamasa: ecraven: it is no longer these days 2017-10-17T06:32:25Z wasamasa: ecraven: even the C compilers are written in C++ 2017-10-17T06:32:29Z dmiles joined #scheme 2017-10-17T06:32:37Z nicklaf: cfront was a pretty different language anyway 2017-10-17T06:32:40Z ecraven: nicklaf: well, many schemes generate native code, not C 2017-10-17T06:32:44Z ecraven: chez for example, or mit 2017-10-17T06:32:45Z wasamasa: also, the windows libc is C++ 2017-10-17T06:33:02Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-17T06:33:14Z nicklaf: ecraven: i know. but if you run the program on unix and call libc functions... 2017-10-17T06:33:23Z ecraven: nicklaf: look into bones scheme 2017-10-17T06:33:28Z ecraven: you can run it without the standard library 2017-10-17T06:33:48Z ecraven: also, everything that compiles to C could theoretically be made to not use the standard libraries 2017-10-17T06:34:14Z nicklaf: that's true. what libc does to access syscalls is quite simple in most cases 2017-10-17T06:34:21Z nicklaf: AFAIK 2017-10-17T06:34:38Z ecraven: libc is definitely not simple, but making syscalls directly is trivial 2017-10-17T06:36:13Z jonaslund: apart from emulating old C api's and memory management is it much that isn't shims over syscalls ? 2017-10-17T06:36:42Z ecraven: well, there's all that file abstraction, for example 2017-10-17T06:36:52Z jonaslund: schemes usually has their own memory management anyhow so 2017-10-17T06:36:57Z jonaslund: ecraven: "old C api's" :) 2017-10-17T06:37:43Z ecraven: jonaslund: one of my long-term plans is writing a JIT-ing scheme that can be made to only use syscalls 2017-10-17T06:37:51Z wasamasa: lol 2017-10-17T06:38:13Z wasamasa: maybe you'll drop the project after finding out that you need to write your own crappy string functions 2017-10-17T06:38:36Z nicklaf: have you guys looked at s9fes 2017-10-17T06:38:37Z ecraven: ropes! 2017-10-17T06:38:43Z wasamasa: "heavy-weight strings" 2017-10-17T06:38:46Z ecraven: nicklaf: not closely, I think it is exceedingly slow ;) 2017-10-17T06:38:46Z wasamasa: nothx 2017-10-17T06:38:54Z nicklaf: i guess i'm not suprised 2017-10-17T06:38:55Z ecraven: wasamasa: unicode on the other hand is a beast 2017-10-17T06:38:58Z wasamasa: yup 2017-10-17T06:39:13Z ecraven: mind, speed is not everything, but s9fes seems to be very slow even for an interpreter 2017-10-17T06:39:14Z wasamasa: generally, making it work in a way that you can think of strings as literals 2017-10-17T06:39:32Z wasamasa: nicklaf, ecraven: the point of s9fes isn't speed I suspect 2017-10-17T06:39:33Z nicklaf: i think the author went for a simple and direct approach to implementation 2017-10-17T06:39:41Z jonaslund: ecraven: I actually started on a small JIT'ing runtime last year but it's been a bit on the slow side since JIT'ing isn't super fun if you plan to support call-cc 2017-10-17T06:40:17Z jaseemabid joined #scheme 2017-10-17T06:40:19Z jonaslund: (although maybe it would've been easier if i had decided not to support easy C++ embedding at the same time) 2017-10-17T06:40:36Z ecraven: jonaslund: hehe, that is another long-term project ;) 2017-10-17T06:40:42Z ecraven: using llvm would help there, like clasp does 2017-10-17T06:40:50Z jonaslund: *shrugs* 2017-10-17T06:41:01Z jonaslund: not entirely sure of that 2017-10-17T06:41:50Z jonaslund: isn't CL much more "loopy" ? 2017-10-17T06:42:21Z ecraven: sorry, there as in C++ embedding, not for continuations 2017-10-17T06:43:49Z jonaslund: overkill 2017-10-17T06:44:28Z jonaslund: if you have a simple C api that can inspect the inputs making a simple and fairly efficient C++ embedding can be done with template expansion 2017-10-17T06:44:49Z jonaslund: (the features of C++11 changed the embedding game entirely imho) 2017-10-17T06:45:40Z ecraven: you have to replicate name mangling and object layout, right? 2017-10-17T06:46:27Z jonaslund: no, that's the thing. C++11 with vararg templates and lambdaes makes it far more natural for the template system to do the heavy work 2017-10-17T06:46:36Z jonaslund: from the C++ side you just want to do: environment.register("printstring",[](const char* str){ printf("%s"); }); 2017-10-17T06:47:14Z jonaslund: register is a template, that template will accept the lambda and then iterate on the lambdas argument types 2017-10-17T06:47:28Z ecraven: jonaslund: yea, but this implies writing C++ code 2017-10-17T06:47:35Z ecraven: if I just want to use a C++ library, I don't want to do that 2017-10-17T06:48:07Z jonaslund: then you do specializations for the types, and the specialization can do runtime checking of the incomming type (either convert or produce an error on non-string inputs) 2017-10-17T06:48:09Z ecraven: ideally, scheme would read the header files, and generate the correct code for interfacing with it :D 2017-10-17T06:48:18Z jonaslund: god no 2017-10-17T06:48:26Z jonaslund: you'd basically be writing a C++ compiler 2017-10-17T06:48:58Z ecraven: that is the problem, I guess :-/ 2017-10-17T06:49:32Z jonaslund: with the above, you could with a small bit of C++ code automate the C++ side memory management and add function stubs (C++ template expansion could easily connect member functions,etc) 2017-10-17T06:49:32Z ecraven: some day I'll need to look into how CLASP does it 2017-10-17T06:50:20Z jonaslund: the thing is, if you do header parsing and interpreting you then need to program your scheme code in a way that mimics the C++ semantics for memory management,etc 2017-10-17T06:50:45Z jonaslund: and this often differs between libraries 2017-10-17T06:50:54Z ecraven: well, you also need to implement the entire preprocessor, so I don't think that is a viable option at all 2017-10-17T06:51:06Z jonaslund: preprocessors is the easy part :D 2017-10-17T06:52:04Z ecraven: not sure, I read that 4 of the 21 phases of a c++ compiler are the preprocessor alone 2017-10-17T06:53:00Z jonaslund: anyhow, my point is that yes, you'd need a bit of C++ code but the upside is that the C++ code can handle things in a native way and if you design the bindings in a good way the handles/objects can be "native" to the scheme world (in terms of GC) and thanks to templates you can also write the code naturally on both sides and let the automatic bindings take care of the error prone work of... 2017-10-17T06:53:01Z jonaslund: ...type conversions/checking,etc 2017-10-17T06:53:54Z ecraven: jonaslund: this might be interesting if the c++ code generation could somehow be automated :-) 2017-10-17T06:54:01Z ecraven: or "more interesting" 2017-10-17T06:54:08Z ecraven: or maybe "even more interesting" ;) 2017-10-17T06:56:20Z jonaslund: well that's the thing why i think this is a good idea. since C++11 makes templates so much more powerful about 80-90% of the code you'd have in old school bindings would be genererated by the templates and the rest would be converting things with a semantic mismatch 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2017-10-17T11:29:43Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-17T11:36:00Z greatscottttt joined #scheme 2017-10-17T11:49:55Z h3r3tek quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-17T11:49:59Z DGASAU: nicklaf: the joke about virus has become boring long ago. :) 2017-10-17T11:50:29Z DGASAU: nicklaf: being serious though, C cannot be compared to virus since it isn't parasite-only thing. 2017-10-17T11:51:56Z leppie quit 2017-10-17T11:53:51Z nicklaf: as far as analogies go, "something that spreads" often seems to be good enough for a lot of people ("viral video" <- wtf?) 2017-10-17T11:54:31Z DGASAU: Mongols must be viruses too. 2017-10-17T11:54:39Z jcowan_: some viruses are beneficial 2017-10-17T11:54:54Z jcowan_: bacteriophages, e.g. 2017-10-17T11:55:14Z DGASAU: They have history of spreading from Mongolia to Hungary within few year. 2017-10-17T11:55:32Z nicklaf: heh 2017-10-17T11:56:47Z jcowan_: The meme for "nomadic army" is definitely viral 2017-10-17T11:57:39Z DGASAU: Strictly speaking the organisation of nomad invasions does have similar features to epidemies. 2017-10-17T11:58:07Z DGASAU: (All of them, including Mongolian.) 2017-10-17T11:58:57Z jcowan_: "Normal" and "invasive" nomad modes are something like grasshopper/locust switch 2017-10-17T11:59:13Z Steverman joined #scheme 2017-10-17T11:59:16Z leppie joined #scheme 2017-10-17T11:59:44Z jcowan_: Also, nomadic armies are typically referred to by just one of the nations involved, but are actually multi-ethnic/multilingual groups 2017-10-17T12:00:08Z jcowan_: Attila the Hun is known to us by a Gothic name, 'little father' 2017-10-17T12:00:48Z jcowan_: And "Mongol" armies had lots of Turkics with them 2017-10-17T12:01:18Z jcowan_: Magyars were accompanied by Szeklers, although they have forgotten whatever their original language was and now speak Hungarian 2017-10-17T12:02:18Z DGASAU: Mongolian army had a lot of people of Iranian descent too. 2017-10-17T12:03:18Z DGASAU: Besides, it is called by ethnicity of "top management." 2017-10-17T12:04:37Z jcowan_: Just so 2017-10-17T12:05:31Z nicklaf: is software bloat a virus? :p 2017-10-17T12:07:43Z jcowan_: A memetic one, yes 2017-10-17T12:08:30Z jcowan_: Zawinski's law: Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can. 2017-10-17T12:08:49Z nicklaf: ah yes 2017-10-17T12:09:11Z DGASAU wonders what happens when e-mail dies out. 2017-10-17T12:09:29Z jcowan_: At one point, GNU hello had an -m switch that dumped your whole mailbox to stdout instead of printing "hello world" 2017-10-17T12:09:40Z marvin2 joined #scheme 2017-10-17T12:10:08Z jcowan_: When I reported a bug in the mailbox-finding logic, the maintainer decided to remove it 2017-10-17T12:10:17Z jcowan_: (the feature, I mean) 2017-10-17T12:10:20Z nicklaf: nice 2017-10-17T12:10:59Z nicklaf: i wish i could report a few bugs to microsoft 2017-10-17T12:11:06Z nicklaf: maybe they'll delete the entire OS 2017-10-17T12:12:06Z nicklaf: i admit the microsoft jokes feel pretty dated by now 2017-10-17T12:12:24Z jcowan_: yeah, especially in the Linux-on-Windows world 2017-10-17T12:12:26Z civodul quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-17T12:13:23Z civodul joined #scheme 2017-10-17T12:15:19Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-17T12:16:49Z DGASAU: nicklaf: if you compare kernel API, linux is a joke when compared to NT. 2017-10-17T12:16:59Z DGASAU: Linux lacks a lot of functionality. 2017-10-17T12:17:22Z C-Keen: yeah not font rendering for example 2017-10-17T12:18:40Z DGASAU: BTW, has linux grown anything to lock files at last? 2017-10-17T12:18:59Z ecraven: plenty of competing solutions :P 2017-10-17T12:19:25Z C-Keen: and grown is the right term 2017-10-17T12:20:34Z ecraven: ah.. why can syntax-rules not expand the parameter list of a lambda :-/ 2017-10-17T12:20:51Z ecraven: (define-syntax foo (syntax-rules () ((foo a b) (lambda a b)))) does not do what I want :-/ 2017-10-17T12:21:55Z jcowan_: Because it is not an expression or definition 2017-10-17T12:22:11Z ecraven: jcowan_: I don't really care about that, there are legitimate cases for this, I would say ;) 2017-10-17T12:22:24Z DGASAU: ecraven: Hm. Really? Is there a name for any? I'd like to look at them, actually. 2017-10-17T12:23:09Z jcowan_: similarly a macro cannot expand into a cond or case arm 2017-10-17T12:23:10Z DGASAU: (Only don't tell about "flock" and friends, they don't lock anything.) 2017-10-17T12:23:23Z ecraven: of course, just not using syntax-rules would solve this :-/ 2017-10-17T12:23:39Z ecraven: jcowan_: but isn't this an arbitrary restriction? 2017-10-17T12:24:03Z ecraven: I mean, wouldn't things work just as well if the definition were different 2017-10-17T12:24:56Z pjb joined #scheme 2017-10-17T12:25:58Z ecraven: DGASAU: https://gavv.github.io/blog/file-locks/ looks like sort of an overview 2017-10-17T12:28:25Z DGASAU: "Linux has limited support for mandatory file locking." 2017-10-17T12:28:35Z DGASAU: So, no file locking still... 2017-10-17T12:28:54Z ecraven: no mandatory file locking, from how I read it 2017-10-17T12:29:02Z nicklaf: does solaris have this kind of thing? 2017-10-17T12:29:14Z nicklaf: or Ilumos 2017-10-17T12:30:33Z DGASAU: ecraven: it is funny that even under all their restriction, their locks are racy. :D 2017-10-17T12:32:38Z jcowan_: Linux has mandatory locking, but it must be enabled on both a filesystem level (mount -o mand) and a file level (g-x,g+s). 2017-10-17T12:33:02Z DGASAU: jcowan_: the overview above tells that they are broken. 2017-10-17T12:33:19Z DGASAU: Effectively, they don't work. 2017-10-17T12:33:28Z DGASAU: Whom should I believe? 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your keyboard when the monitor is off :-) 2017-10-18T20:46:51Z pierpa joined #scheme 2017-10-18T20:49:22Z lritter joined #scheme 2017-10-18T20:50:40Z stratotanker joined #scheme 2017-10-18T20:52:43Z stratotanker: Hello, someone can help me conditionally define some parts of scheme code, like #ifdef in C? 2017-10-18T20:54:18Z S1ohy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-18T20:54:56Z pjb: stratotanker: it would be strictly implementation dependent. Perhaps some implementations have something like #+/#- from Common Lisp? In racket there's #lang and perhaps some other options. 2017-10-18T20:55:58Z stratotanker: pjb: I'll explain my situation, maybe there is a good way to solve my problem. I have a pro 2017-10-18T20:57:42Z Kooda: You have cond-expand that is often available. You can also use a plain old if. :Þ 2017-10-18T20:58:21Z pjb: Well you could with some restriction define macros (syntax) to do that. 2017-10-18T20:58:55Z stratotanker: program using a C library. In the current version this library lack's some features but they will be available in the future. I'm using another library to cover this missing functionalities. But In the future I need to handle to use or not this library 2017-10-18T20:59:02Z pjb: It would be better than if with dead code. I don't know about all scheme compilers, but some CL compilers issue warnings when they eliminate dead code, so it wouldn't be nice to use just IF. 2017-10-18T21:01:08Z pie_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-18T21:05:35Z stratotanker quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-18T21:05:54Z azahi quit (Quit: ded) 2017-10-18T21:14:10Z turbofail quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-18T21:16:40Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-18T21:32:34Z Murii quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-18T21:36:55Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.3.1)) 2017-10-18T21:59:13Z daviid joined #scheme 2017-10-18T22:06:32Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-18T22:18:30Z bzmansurov quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2017-10-18T22:19:47Z bmansurov joined #scheme 2017-10-18T22:20:09Z bmansurov quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-18T22:22:20Z bmansurov joined #scheme 2017-10-18T22:40:38Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-18T22:45:49Z 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timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-20T19:04:17Z ertes quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-20T19:08:53Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-20T19:09:05Z cemerick_ joined #scheme 2017-10-20T19:12:31Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-20T19:17:46Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-20T19:22:51Z ecraven: arcfide on APL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xCJ3BCIudI 2017-10-20T19:34:57Z mejja: 42:48 (parser combinator library) :) :) :) 2017-10-20T19:34:57Z cemerick_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-20T19:40:34Z cemerick_ joined #scheme 2017-10-20T19:44:59Z cemerick joined #scheme 2017-10-20T19:45:05Z dbmikus quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-20T19:45:18Z ecraven: mejja: unfortunately, my APL- 2017-10-20T19:45:28Z ecraven: APL-fu is much too weak to have even a remote idea of what it does 2017-10-20T19:47:35Z cemerick_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-20T19:47:49Z DeeEff: ecraven: thanks for the link! I will have to give this a watch to see if there's anything that might apply to my implementation of arrayscowan 2017-10-20T19:48:59Z ecraven: DeeEff: I find the arcfide's video about his compiler very interesting (though above my comprehension level) 2017-10-20T19:49:50Z JuanDaugherty only saw apl used once, inside ibm, c. 1980 2017-10-20T19:51:17Z ecraven: I think it's one of the most interesting languages I've ever seen, however one of the most "alien" to me too... 2017-10-20T19:55:48Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-20T19:56:34Z DeeEff: It takes short notation to a bit of an extreme which is why so many people are befuddled by it 2017-10-20T19:56:37Z DeeEff: At least that's my impression 2017-10-20T19:57:52Z ecraven: for me, it's not just that. they have "idioms" that would be functions in other languages, so the brevity of syntax is certainly an asset, once you actually know APL well enough ;) 2017-10-20T19:57:57Z ecraven: +/ is even shorter to write than "sum" 2017-10-20T19:58:20Z civodul joined #scheme 2017-10-20T20:01:08Z aeth: What I like about the Lisp family is that conciseness is valued at the token level, not at the character level. 2017-10-20T20:01:28Z ecraven: aeth: I always liked that too, but learning a bit of APL shows a different side 2017-10-20T20:01:40Z aeth: I don't have to learn that 'm.' means 'map' or whatever random shorthand someone wants to think up in whatever random concise language that they want to write. 2017-10-20T20:01:54Z ecraven: +/ is certainly easier to read and understand once you saw it often enough.. 2017-10-20T20:01:54Z aeth: (I'm not sure if there's a language where that's true, but I hope you get the point) 2017-10-20T20:02:15Z aeth: ecraven: The thing is, we don't read one character at a time, we read one word at a time 2017-10-20T20:02:42Z ecraven: aeth: yes, I think as an APLer you read +/ as one "word" 2017-10-20T20:02:47Z ecraven: or even longer pieces 2017-10-20T20:02:50Z aeth: If you're a touch typist, it's only a bit longer to type define-foo-bar over dfb but define-foo-bar takes about the same amount of time to read, and everyone who knows what a foo-bar is can understand your code without having to learn yet another syntax 2017-10-20T20:02:54Z aeth: I hate syntax. 2017-10-20T20:03:05Z aeth: I know the basic programming concepts, but I have to learn like 10 different syntaxes for them. 2017-10-20T20:03:12Z ecraven: aeth: there's not much syntax in APL ;) 2017-10-20T20:03:22Z ecraven: it just looks that way if you are unfamiliar with it 2017-10-20T20:03:55Z aeth: I hate most syntactic sugar, too. 2017-10-20T20:05:04Z aeth: "++" makes no sense to the uninitiated. "incf" in CL at least explains it a bit. "inc!" would make even more sense. "increment!" would make the most sense but if you're incrementing a lot, that might be too much. A few things do need to be shorthand, unfortunately. 2017-10-20T20:05:18Z ecraven: it's not that either ;) APL is just right-to-left functions (with a few operators in between) 2017-10-20T20:05:39Z vicenteH joined #scheme 2017-10-20T20:05:55Z aeth: APL is a vomit of cryptic symbols that need to be learned. 2017-10-20T20:06:04Z ecraven: aeth: but there's a trade-off here, the longer things are, the more screen-space you need (which is related to how long it takes to read them) 2017-10-20T20:06:07Z aeth: Maybe that's okay if it's literally the only programming language, but it adds up when there's dozens. 2017-10-20T20:06:12Z LeoNerd: APL is to my knowledge the only programming language to get its own Unicode block 2017-10-20T20:06:19Z LeoNerd: All the others make do with existing symbols :) 2017-10-20T20:06:37Z ecraven: aeth: yes, but so is Scheme. you can *read* call-with-current-continuation, but it won't help you with understanding it at all, unless you already know what it does 2017-10-20T20:06:46Z aeth: LeoNerd: Perl 6! 2017-10-20T20:07:09Z LeoNerd: Especially Perl 6. That uses lots of existing Unicode symbols, it doesn't have to invent new ones 2017-10-20T20:07:11Z aeth: LeoNerd: A lot of Perl 6 examples heavily use Unicode, and if you can use arbitrary Unicode, you can of course make up your own stuff too 2017-10-20T20:07:20Z aeth: private use area, though. 2017-10-20T20:07:29Z ecraven: well, to be fair, APL used all those symbols way before unicode was even thought of 2017-10-20T20:08:18Z aeth: ecraven: The thing is, there are n concepts and most languages support m < n concepts, but most of those m concepts that are supported are in common, and they just *look* different, or have slightly different names. 2017-10-20T20:09:05Z aeth: So usually you know what something is, and you just don't know how to say it when you're going to another language, especially if you're familiar with the different paradigms (e.g. a C++ programmer might get lost in a functional language) 2017-10-20T20:09:11Z ecraven: aeth: yes, but some (few) languages actually have different concepts 2017-10-20T20:09:27Z ecraven: but I agree with you that python is easier to read for me than perl, even though I know neither well 2017-10-20T20:09:32Z aeth: very few, e.g. SQL, have different concepts 2017-10-20T20:09:50Z aeth: Most just have different subsets of procedural, OOP (procedural), FP, etc. 2017-10-20T20:10:39Z aeth: even programming based on e.g. matrices has like 10 different fairly major implementations... if you count libraries like Numpy in addition to languages like Matlab/Octave 2017-10-20T20:11:28Z aeth: I think in 2017 a language designer can assume that the user will know most of the concepts already, at least for most languages. 2017-10-20T20:12:00Z aeth: So I think readability, including readability for people who understand the concepts in other language but not the current language yet, is a key goal 2017-10-20T20:12:20Z ecraven: aeth: only if you don't plan to support concepts that the main languages now don't have 2017-10-20T20:12:30Z ecraven: otherwise, it doesn't matter that much 2017-10-20T20:13:27Z aeth: I wouldn't restrict it to just 'the main languages' because e.g. the people who seek out obscure functional programming concepts in less popular languages probably have learned those concepts already 5 times. 2017-10-20T20:15:44Z ecraven: from my (limited) exposure to APL, I find that APL has different concepts than the mainstream languages 2017-10-20T20:16:05Z ecraven: most APL programs never use a single if 2017-10-20T20:16:18Z ecraven: (from what I've seen, granted, that isn't much ;) 2017-10-20T20:16:39Z ecraven: or at least not in the sense most languages use `if' 2017-10-20T20:17:58Z aeth: That's not a high bar, though. Even Lisps generally don't use if as normal languages do. It's closer to the ternary operator. And cond, heh. 2017-10-20T20:18:57Z ecraven: well, cond is just nested ifs, that's trivial to understand for most programmers 2017-10-20T20:19:08Z ecraven: and expression if vs. statement if is not that hard either 2017-10-20T20:19:31Z ecraven: but APL uses array selection with an array of boolean values, that is something quite different, imho 2017-10-20T20:19:54Z aeth: But what I mean is, if I'm writing C++, I'm doing an if then block with "do_something();" or maybe "return do_something();", but that's not how I use if or cond in a Lisp language. 2017-10-20T20:20:17Z ecraven: DeeEff: I started on arraysjcowan some time ago, but never got very far. is your code public? 2017-10-20T20:21:44Z brendyn joined #scheme 2017-10-20T20:21:59Z aeth: ecraven: what do you mean by an array of boolean values? 2017-10-20T20:22:41Z ecraven: (1 2 3) < 2 -> 1 0 0 (which is #t #f #f) 2017-10-20T20:25:04Z ecraven: then you can do (1 0 0) / ("A" "B" "C") -> "A" 2017-10-20T20:25:17Z ecraven: so you "select" only those elements that are "true" 2017-10-20T20:26:01Z ecraven: R has similar concepts, but strangely muddled up 2017-10-20T20:27:15Z aeth: The first one seems very similar to (map (lambda (x) (< x 2)) '(1 2 3)) 2017-10-20T20:27:32Z ecraven: it is 2017-10-20T20:27:50Z aeth: well, no, it's a vector map probably. 2017-10-20T20:28:13Z ecraven: primitive functions in apl implicitly expand across arrays 2017-10-20T20:32:21Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-20T20:36:39Z cemerick joined #scheme 2017-10-20T20:54:02Z Psybur quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-20T20:56:48Z alezost quit (Quit: I live in GuixSD and Emacs ) 2017-10-20T21:19:51Z muelleme joined #scheme 2017-10-20T21:23:58Z DeeEff: ecraven: sorry I got busy at work 2017-10-20T21:24:12Z DeeEff: Mine is public and I'm almost done save for inner and outer product 2017-10-20T21:25:11Z DeeEff: ecraven: https://bitbucket.org/ThatGeoGuy/chicken-generalized-arrays 2017-10-20T21:25:57Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 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I see the last call in the stack is invoke_finalizers so I'm thinking about an invalid pointer. I think it is related to (string->pointer) and (pointer->string). I read that string->pointer free the string when the object becomes unreacheable. But I don't read anithing about pointer->string. Someone can tell if the resulting string is dependent on pointer data? 2017-10-21T08:01:05Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-21T08:04:29Z dmiles joined #scheme 2017-10-21T08:13:02Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-21T08:16:35Z brendyn joined #scheme 2017-10-21T08:41:35Z nikivi quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.5 - http://znc.in) 2017-10-21T08:44:37Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-21T08:46:46Z cmatei joined #scheme 2017-10-21T08:53:46Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-21T09:02:03Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-21T09:03:40Z Menche quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-21T09:03:58Z Menche joined #scheme 2017-10-21T09:27:21Z nikivi joined #scheme 2017-10-21T09:39:57Z qu1j0t3 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-21T09:44:10Z rotty quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-21T09:54:10Z rotty joined #scheme 2017-10-21T10:09:46Z mauritslamers joined #scheme 2017-10-21T10:10:38Z mauritslamers: hey all, is there a simple prefab method to convert an alist to a string exactly like display is doing to screen? 2017-10-21T10:11:04Z mauritslamers: so (4. 3) => "(4 . 3)" ? 2017-10-21T10:13:06Z weinholt: you can use call-with-string-output-port together with display 2017-10-21T10:13:31Z Kooda: (with-output-to-string (lambda () (write alist))) 2017-10-21T10:15:37Z mauritslamers: let me a bit more clear :) There is an existing procedure which sends things to an open file. This uses (format "~a" item) 2017-10-21T10:16:32Z mauritslamers: when I send an alist into this function, it gives "unsupported SCM value for format" 2017-10-21T10:17:12Z mauritslamers: so, I am trying to convert the alist into a string which is usable by format, and which gives me in a string the exact same layout as display is giving when it sends things to the console 2017-10-21T10:21:14Z daviid joined #scheme 2017-10-21T10:26:05Z pie_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-21T10:27:06Z Kooda: Yes. Our answers are correct then. 2017-10-21T10:27:48Z mauritslamers: Kooda: ok, great... Then I didn't understand exactly what you were saying. Thanks a lot1 2017-10-21T10:28:27Z Kooda: These calls return a string, that you can give to format. :) 2017-10-21T10:28:37Z Murii|osx quit (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2017-10-21T10:29:50Z mauritslamers: Kooda: now indeed looked up the method, that's indeed exactly what I need. Thanks again! 2017-10-21T10:30:26Z Kooda: No problem :) 2017-10-21T10:41:34Z qu1j0t3 joined #scheme 2017-10-21T10:48:31Z muelleme joined #scheme 2017-10-21T10:57:50Z nckx joined #scheme 2017-10-21T11:02:50Z Murii|osx joined #scheme 2017-10-21T11:06:41Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-21T11:28:33Z lritter_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-21T11:29:29Z Kkiro quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.1 - http://znc.in) 2017-10-21T11:32:38Z Kkiro joined #scheme 2017-10-21T11:32:39Z Kkiro quit (Changing host) 2017-10-21T11:32:39Z Kkiro joined #scheme 2017-10-21T11:34:09Z muelleme joined #scheme 2017-10-21T11:51:27Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-21T11:56:17Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-21T12:28:20Z pjb joined #scheme 2017-10-21T12:28:55Z excelsior quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-21T12:29:10Z excelsior joined #scheme 2017-10-21T12:33:17Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-21T12:33:21Z muelleme joined #scheme 2017-10-21T12:41:38Z cemerick joined #scheme 2017-10-21T12:49:05Z aeth quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-21T12:53:31Z pie_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-21T12:54:17Z aeth joined #scheme 2017-10-21T12:57:59Z goreye joined #scheme 2017-10-21T12:59:43Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-21T13:02:27Z mauritslamers quit (Read error: No route to host) 2017-10-21T13:03:11Z mauritslamers joined #scheme 2017-10-21T13:05:10Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-21T13:20:13Z shiyaz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-21T13:20:39Z shiyaz joined #scheme 2017-10-21T13:34:04Z cemerick joined #scheme 2017-10-21T13:37:03Z muelleme joined #scheme 2017-10-21T13:38:39Z stratotanker quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-21T13:41:28Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-21T13:45:05Z goreye quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-21T13:45:58Z brendyn quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-21T13:55:06Z mejja joined #scheme 2017-10-21T14:07:30Z wasamasa is now known as masa-kun 2017-10-21T14:10:24Z pilne joined #scheme 2017-10-21T14:14:09Z dbmikus joined #scheme 2017-10-21T14:36:57Z sethalves quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2017-10-21T14:40:17Z mauritslamers_ joined #scheme 2017-10-21T14:41:21Z mauritslamers quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-21T14:41:21Z mauritslamers_ is now known as mauritslamers 2017-10-21T14:41:29Z bwv joined #scheme 2017-10-21T15:01:07Z JuanDaugherty joined #scheme 2017-10-21T15:11:31Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-21T15:13:51Z mejja quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 56.0/20171003100843]) 2017-10-21T15:24:51Z stratotanker joined #scheme 2017-10-21T15:25:06Z stratotanker: Hi, I'm getting fault with GUILE FFI. I see the last call in the stack is invoke_finalizers so I'm thinking about an invalid pointer. I think it is related to (string->pointer) and (pointer->string). I read that string->pointer free the string when the object becomes unreacheable. But I don't read anithing about pointer->string. Someone can tell if the resulting string is dependent on pointer data? 2017-10-21T15:41:46Z stratotanker: Or help me debug this case? 2017-10-21T15:43:25Z Kooda: Sorry, I have no knowledge of Guile. 2017-10-21T15:44:50Z Kooda: You’re probably better off asking on #guile 2017-10-21T15:45:21Z aeth: For questions about a specific implementation, the specific channel is usually better, unless the implementation is too small to have an active channel. (Racket, Guile, and Chicken all have large channels.) 2017-10-21T15:57:00Z masa-kun: stratotanker: also, if you don't provide any code, people are unlikely to help you 2017-10-21T15:57:58Z stratotanker: masa-kun: I'ts hard to provide code since I have a complete program but I don't say wich part cause this fault 2017-10-21T15:58:17Z masa-kun: that's a sign that you'll have to minimize the problem 2017-10-21T15:58:28Z stratotanker: yes Im'doing 2017-10-21T15:59:47Z stratotanker: Maybe there is some way to debug program like within gdb? 2017-10-21T16:00:08Z masa-kun: unless you're debugging guile itself, unlikely 2017-10-21T16:00:16Z masa-kun: even less so if it's FFI issues 2017-10-21T16:01:55Z stratotanker: That's my error: https://pastebin.com/2cTa83aE 2017-10-21T16:02:21Z tonton quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-21T16:03:05Z stratotanker: And I'm pretty sure is related to this procedure: https://pastebin.com/YyRyX6nT 2017-10-21T16:03:25Z daviid: stratotanker: using pastebin.com, most of us won't look at it, prefer lisppaste.org instead (allowed using tor and which respect privacy...) 2017-10-21T16:04:00Z stratotanker: If I remove the last line (make-pointer) I don't get the error. But maybe some memory leak's 2017-10-21T16:04:20Z stratotanker: daviid: sorry I don't know about 2017-10-21T16:04:28Z tonton joined #scheme 2017-10-21T16:04:46Z stratotanker: Should I repost? 2017-10-21T16:05:16Z masa-kun: reupload and send it to #guile 2017-10-21T16:05:56Z daviid: stratotanker: you should talk to #guile really, which is not a guarantee someone will answer, but better then here :), here is for general scheme chat... 2017-10-21T16:06:32Z stratotanker: One last question: How the memory is managed when I use (pointer->string p) ? 2017-10-21T16:06:38Z masa-kun: ... 2017-10-21T16:07:00Z masa-kun: how likely is it that a random person in here knows about guile than on #guile? 2017-10-21T16:08:28Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-21T16:08:44Z Psybur quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-21T16:09:01Z stratotanker: masa-kun: okay, I'm sending 2017-10-21T16:09:41Z kjak quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-21T16:21:31Z nickdaly joined #scheme 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What would be the best way to create a string filled with a certain number of one given string? let's say I have "a" as source and I need to have a new string "aaa" 2017-10-22T13:21:25Z mauritslamers: reading the guile reference manual, but I cannot find something which works as a function (string-fill! says its return value is unspecified) 2017-10-22T13:27:12Z weinholt: (make-string 3 #\a) if it's a repeated character, or e.g. xsubstring from srif-13 if you want to repeat a string 2017-10-22T13:43:23Z marvin2 joined #scheme 2017-10-22T13:45:20Z mauritslamers: weinholt: does that also work when I have an assoc list like '( (1 . "a") (2 . "b")) => (make-string 3 (assoc-get 1 mylist)) ? 2017-10-22T13:48:05Z mauritslamers: tried executing it but it complains that it wants a character 2017-10-22T13:48:40Z mauritslamers: I am afraid to use #\a because of code table problems 2017-10-22T13:48:59Z mauritslamers: (but perhaps I am mistaken?) 2017-10-22T13:55:16Z wasamasa: what are "code table problems"? 2017-10-22T13:56:48Z mauritslamers: the result is going to be printed to ascii text files 2017-10-22T13:57:24Z mauritslamers: and I need to know for sure that the character I have defined is also the character that will be written to disk 2017-10-22T13:58:11Z pjb: mauritslamers: are you working on a POSIX system? 2017-10-22T13:58:35Z mauritslamers: pjb: I am now, but the result should also work in Windows 2017-10-22T13:58:45Z pjb: Windows is POSIX too. 2017-10-22T13:58:59Z pjb: On POSIX systems, files are sequences of octets. You cannot store characters to files. 2017-10-22T13:59:10Z mauritslamers: To make the context clear: I am writing code which runs in the music notation system Lilypond (which is written in Scheme) 2017-10-22T13:59:27Z pjb: The context doesn't matter. You have a problem of fundamental understanding. 2017-10-22T13:59:40Z mauritslamers: ah, great :) please help me fix it :) 2017-10-22T14:00:00Z pjb: Check: http://www.cliki.net/CloserLookAtCharacters 2017-10-22T14:01:09Z mauritslamers: ah of course, because the basic set is always ascii (in a way) there is no such worries? 2017-10-22T14:01:10Z pjb: mauritslamers: now, the standard r5rs has a function to read and write characters to files. Obviously, on POSIX systems, this implies an implicit encoding and decoding of the characters, with an implicit coding system. 2017-10-22T14:01:20Z pjb: Therefore you cannot ensure anything, by using read-char and write-char! 2017-10-22T14:01:48Z pjb: You have to redefine your problem taking into account the coding system you want for your file, and writing the octets yourself, doing the encoding and decoding explicitely. 2017-10-22T14:02:03Z mauritslamers: ok, clear :) 2017-10-22T14:02:31Z pjb: If you specify ASCII, you're in luck, since it's easy to encode and decode to ascii (you only need a 96-character string, and lookup the position of a character into it (+ 32)). 2017-10-22T14:05:03Z pjb: mauritslamers: on older systems, the OS provided structured files. You had then actual text files, where you could store characters and lines of text. Of course, since the hard disks or the tapes still provided only sequences of bytes (octets or sometimes 6-bit bytes), the OS had to perform this encoding. But it was the OS who took charge of it. 2017-10-22T14:05:11Z ecraven: mauritslamers: if you confine yourself to the usual letters and numbers, I don't know of any Scheme that doesn't write the given characters to file literally as their ascii equivalent 2017-10-22T14:05:18Z pjb: Each OS had its own encoding! 2017-10-22T14:05:29Z ecraven: so #\a is always be #x61 2017-10-22T14:05:45Z pjb: This is why ASCII American Standard Code for Information INTERCHANGE. 2017-10-22T14:06:13Z ecraven: hm.. though I never use macOS or windows, so my experience here is actually limited 2017-10-22T14:06:25Z mauritslamers: great... the point is that the characters represent braille signs... which are defined to be ASCII 2017-10-22T14:06:33Z pjb: example in CL: https://github.com/informatimago/lisp/blob/master/common-lisp/cesarum/ascii.lisp#L300 2017-10-22T14:06:49Z ecraven: maybe doing what pjb says, and using binary-files and bytevectors and character->integer from r7rs are the way to go 2017-10-22T14:06:53Z jackdaniel: but, given aliens put their green hands on our human software and get the language specification, they may have some troubles with guessing, which character should be assigned to which code 2017-10-22T14:07:24Z jackdaniel: even if they implement the interpreter (based on the spec) 2017-10-22T14:08:12Z pjb: You cannot use r7rs char->integer since it uses the internal encoding. This is not an interchange encoding you can use in files! 2017-10-22T14:08:26Z pjb: Instead, use char->ucs if you want the UCS coding system. 2017-10-22T14:08:41Z Riastradh: mauritslamers: #\a and (string-ref "a" 0) will give the same result. 2017-10-22T14:09:03Z pjb: Now, happily, if (< (char->ucs c) 128) then (= (char->ascii c) (char->ucs c)) since ASCII is a subset of UCS :-) 2017-10-22T14:09:24Z pjb: So you can use use char->ucs, and check for <128 to ensure you're writing an ASCII encoded file. 2017-10-22T14:09:58Z mauritslamers: pjb: thanks for this extremely clear explanation! Totally clear now :) 2017-10-22T14:10:20Z pjb: Err, Oops, I'm reading gauche doc, check with r7rs, it's possible they defined char->integer to use UCS… 2017-10-22T14:11:17Z ecraven: pjb: string->utf8 from r7rs will work 2017-10-22T14:11:21Z pjb: Yes, right, r7rs defines char->integer to use UCS. 2017-10-22T14:11:23Z ecraven: it will give you a bytevector of utf-8 2017-10-22T14:12:02Z ecraven: of course, guile is not r7rs, so many of the things in r7rs will just not work (yet) 2017-10-22T14:12:29Z pjb: Yes, string->utf8 and checking for you indeed only have octets<128 should do. 2017-10-22T14:12:47Z pjb: s/for/ 2017-10-22T14:13:06Z ecraven: well, you could also use string-for-each and have your own mapping from characters to octets 2017-10-22T14:13:40Z ecraven: mauritslamers: you mean unicode braille? or some custom encoding via ASCII? 2017-10-22T14:14:03Z Riastradh: mauritslamers: Lilypond uses GNU Guile. If you write-char to a file you opened with open-output-file, or with call-with-output-file, the sequence of octets you get as a result is determined by the Unix locale, unless you specify an encoding for open-output-file/call-with-output-file/&c.: . 2017-10-22T14:14:28Z pjb: ^ locale! 2017-10-22T14:15:27Z Riastradh: mauritslamers: If you want to specify the octets to output, instead of specifying Unicode code points (via Scheme characters/strings) for Guile to encode into octets, you can use binary ports: . 2017-10-22T14:15:41Z pjb: unix and locale were specified at a time where computer systems were isolated planets. There was no significant network. So local consistency was important. Nowadays with network, planetary consistency is important. Hence ascii and then unicode. 2017-10-22T14:15:44Z mauritslamers: ecraven: it _should_ be ASCII afaik... as it is music braille 2017-10-22T14:16:18Z pjb: (But notice how unicode rather foolishly, rejects extraterrestrial alphabets (but allows for private pages, so you can still include them in a way). 2017-10-22T14:16:19Z pjb: ) 2017-10-22T14:16:55Z pjb: mauritslamers: the question is whether there is already a standard to encode music braille into 0-127 codes? 2017-10-22T14:17:01Z Riastradh: mauritslamers: If you want to specify Unicode code points, but request a particular encoding instead of using the Unix locale, you can pass additional arguments to call-with-output-file: . 2017-10-22T14:17:08Z mauritslamers: pjb: yes 2017-10-22T14:17:10Z pjb: mauritslamers: if not, it may be a better idea to find code points in the unicode code set. 2017-10-22T14:18:11Z mauritslamers: pjb: I said yes... but actually it might not be the case 2017-10-22T14:18:21Z pjb: check the specs! :-) 2017-10-22T14:18:44Z mauritslamers: music braille only defines the encoding of the dots, not the translation into ASCII or whatever code table 2017-10-22T14:19:26Z mauritslamers: In any case, for the moment I can try to continue and later on change the file writing to map every character used in the program to Unicode 2017-10-22T14:19:32Z Riastradh: mauritslamers: If you're working entirely in US-ASCII, then you can specify "US-ASCII" as the encoding, e.g. (open-output-file "foo.music" #:encoding "US-ASCII"). Then, if the result is port, when you (write-char #\a port) the effect will be to write the octet #x61 to the file foo.music. 2017-10-22T14:19:36Z pjb: mauritslamers: in unicode you have all the braille characters. 2017-10-22T14:19:54Z pjb: mauritslamers: perhaps you would rather want to save the file in unicode, using those braille code points? 2017-10-22T14:19:56Z dbmikus joined #scheme 2017-10-22T14:20:08Z pjb: Then the file could be read directly by unicode braille readers. 2017-10-22T14:20:15Z mauritslamers: pjb: yes, but that would mean that certain people wouldn't be able to use their printers 2017-10-22T14:20:26Z pjb: Oh, right. 2017-10-22T14:20:59Z mauritslamers: so, I better keep it ASCII for the moment, then leave them an option to specify unicode, and then convert the ascii output to unicode braille points 2017-10-22T14:21:11Z pjb: mauritslamers: I would avoid strings. Just map directly musical objects to the braille music codes. 2017-10-22T14:21:37Z mauritslamers: pjb: that is actually what I am doing, now you mention it 2017-10-22T14:22:36Z mauritslamers: because redefining the asoc lists providing the braille symbols with unicode symbols will make the output unicde 2017-10-22T14:22:40Z mauritslamers: *unicode 2017-10-22T14:23:25Z mauritslamers: but it is true that I can do one better 2017-10-22T14:24:39Z pjb: If you have a map between your musical symbols and a LIST of codes, then you can have lists of 1 code for 8-bit braille used by the old printers, and you can switch to lists of multiple code for UTF-8 braille. So you can give the option to save the files in either format. 2017-10-22T14:25:22Z bwv joined #scheme 2017-10-22T14:30:46Z mauritslamers: pjb: that is what I meant with "do one better", first make a map from braille points to characters, then a map from musical symbols to braille points 2017-10-22T14:31:08Z mauritslamers: thanks for reminding me :) 2017-10-22T14:31:12Z pjb: no character. 2017-10-22T14:32:04Z pjb: #\a or #\⠅ vs. #x61 or 10245. 2017-10-22T14:33:03Z pjb: The problem is the mapping from character to code may give different results, depending on the encoding used, and if you do it yourself explicitely, then there's no reason to use the intermediate step. 2017-10-22T14:33:32Z pjb: For example, the implementation may be incapable of representing #\⠅ ! 2017-10-22T14:33:41Z pjb: But you can still use 10245. 2017-10-22T14:33:51Z mauritslamers: ah, yes... very good 2017-10-22T14:34:17Z pjb: or actually (226 160 133) 2017-10-22T14:34:32Z mauritslamers: pjb: that is what you get when you start writing Scheme when JS is your main language... too much used to having everything as UTF strings 2017-10-22T14:52:57Z dbmikus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-22T15:09:21Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-22T15:15:23Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-22T15:29:34Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-22T15:30:41Z jmd joined #scheme 2017-10-22T15:48:16Z jmd` joined #scheme 2017-10-22T15:49:23Z TonCherAmi joined #scheme 2017-10-22T15:50:56Z dbmikus joined #scheme 2017-10-22T16:06:44Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-22T16:11:56Z Psybur quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-22T16:22:24Z pilne joined #scheme 2017-10-22T16:24:05Z dbmikus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-22T16:26:51Z Murii|osx quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2017-10-22T16:28:05Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-22T16:28:22Z gacepa joined #scheme 2017-10-22T16:36:41Z jmd` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-22T16:39:18Z jmd` joined #scheme 2017-10-22T16:39:46Z jmd` is now known as jmd 2017-10-22T16:46:29Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2017-10-22T16:51:32Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-22T16:52:28Z ecraven: mauritslamers: well, braille is unicode, definitely not ascii 2017-10-22T16:52:56Z mauritslamers: ecraven: while that is true, many old braille printers are using ascii 2017-10-22T16:54:08Z mauritslamers: and those embossers are rather pricey IIRC 2017-10-22T16:54:30Z ecraven: mauritslamers: for my guile, #\x2813 works fine to show #\⠓ 2017-10-22T16:55:08Z ecraven: well, if you only need ascii, then you probably don't need to convert between characters and octets at all (except for the trivial conversion) 2017-10-22T16:55:53Z mauritslamers: blind people also read normal text as braille, so just keeping to the unicode braille signs probably won't work anyhow 2017-10-22T16:55:54Z muelleme joined #scheme 2017-10-22T16:56:21Z mauritslamers: ecraven: and I am just wondering whether that is 6 or 8 point braille 2017-10-22T16:56:39Z mauritslamers: on my screen it looks like it might be 8 point 2017-10-22T17:01:51Z ecraven: BRAILLE PATTERN DOTS-125 2017-10-22T17:02:04Z ecraven: looks like it is 8 point 2017-10-22T17:02:55Z ecraven: it seems unicode does not differentiate, you have only 8 point codepoints 2017-10-22T17:03:39Z ecraven: all dots: ⣿ 2017-10-22T17:13:58Z webshinra quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-22T17:16:14Z webshinra joined #scheme 2017-10-22T17:19:02Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-22T17:20:01Z pjb: ecraven: fonts represent absent dots with small dots, and present dots with fat dots. 2017-10-22T17:20:40Z dbmikus joined #scheme 2017-10-22T17:21:41Z pjb: and indeed, there are 8 bits, even if the usual characters use only 6 bits. 2017-10-22T17:22:06Z pjb: Hey! My font uses little circles for absent dots, and filled circles for present dots! :-) 2017-10-22T17:22:43Z pjb: #x0283F is displayed with 6 circles, while #x028FF is displaed with 8 circles. 2017-10-22T17:23:15Z pjb: http://8dotbraille.com 2017-10-22T17:23:44Z pjb: So 2 different braille codes… 2017-10-22T17:25:14Z pjb: ok, it's as messy as anything we've done with other character sets and encodings… 2017-10-22T17:33:43Z mauritslamers quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-22T17:33:56Z mauritslamers joined #scheme 2017-10-22T17:39:22Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-22T17:42:24Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-22T17:53:37Z dbmikus quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-22T17:55:35Z fantazo joined #scheme 2017-10-22T17:57:50Z fantazo quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-22T17:58:20Z hazyPurple joined #scheme 2017-10-22T18:11:28Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-22T18:31:11Z manumanumanu: So, I am thinking about implementing something like a simple lazy list (something like a mixture of generator lists and streams), and I just started thinking about the semantics. I want a list that consists of a known car and a delayed cdr, but the problem is then: how to I represent the initial state? Should I always force the initial car? That is what srfi 127 does, and that simplifies things quite a bit 2017-10-22T18:31:41Z manumanumanu: I could rely on that, but most of my usage would be the coroutine-generator, and that has all the overhead of call/cc 2017-10-22T18:32:33Z wasamasa: simple solution: pick a scheme where call/cc has close to no overhead 2017-10-22T18:32:49Z manumanumanu: wasamasa: haha :) 2017-10-22T18:32:50Z ecraven: are there such schemes? 2017-10-22T18:32:54Z manumanumanu: ecraven: chicken 2017-10-22T18:32:54Z wasamasa: CHICKEN 2017-10-22T18:33:32Z manumanumanu: or pick a scheme with proper delimited continuations :D 2017-10-22T18:34:45Z manumanumanu: which would be the one I currently use (guile), scheme48 or racket (if that counts). 2017-10-22T18:35:24Z wasamasa: I'm kind of shocked you abandoned us 2017-10-22T18:36:35Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-22T18:37:50Z alezost joined #scheme 2017-10-22T18:38:04Z manumanumanu: wasamasa: I am actually working on porting my racket-style for-loops to chicken this very minute. then my whole prelude will work in guile and chicken. I finally grokked ir/er-macro-transformers :D :D 2017-10-22T18:38:10Z gacepa quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2017-10-22T18:38:14Z wasamasa: meh 2017-10-22T18:38:21Z wasamasa: just use named let 2017-10-22T18:39:07Z manumanumanu: I am not so sure. especially for*-style loops become somewhat of a hassle using named lets 2017-10-22T18:40:02Z manumanumanu: I don't know what chickens optimizer does, but for guile my loops have no runtime overhead. 2017-10-22T18:42:00Z TonCherAmi quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-22T18:47:35Z DeeEff quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-22T18:47:42Z l04m33[m] quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-22T18:50:52Z hazyPurple quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-22T18:51:26Z M-krsiehl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-22T18:51:56Z ArthurAGleckler[ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2017-10-22T18:51:58Z astronavt[m] quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-22T18:52:34Z happy_gnu[m] quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-22T18:52:53Z Kooda quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-22T18:58:39Z nikivi quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-22T19:20:49Z alezost quit (Quit: I live in GuixSD and Emacs ) 2017-10-22T19:24:07Z mauritslamers quit (Quit: mauritslamers) 2017-10-22T19:25:59Z mauritslamers joined #scheme 2017-10-22T19:32:26Z dbmikus joined #scheme 2017-10-22T19:33:03Z muelleme joined #scheme 2017-10-22T19:37:46Z l04m33[m] joined #scheme 2017-10-22T19:37:50Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-22T19:39:23Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-22T19:46:24Z mauritslamers: question about assoc lists: I am now defining all my braille points through musical symbols, which I think will work out great as I can see how this will generate one big list of braille code points by doing mostly lookups in assoc lists. 2017-10-22T19:47:42Z mauritslamers: However, there are certain situations where I would like to get back nothing from the assoc list. When I work with strings in for example Javascript, I can define a property to be an empty string... 2017-10-22T19:48:17Z mauritslamers: so if I then generate everything, I have a single approach (look everything up in the lookup table) which will even generate "nothing" 2017-10-22T19:48:37Z mauritslamers: however, I don't know of a way to do this with scheme. 2017-10-22T19:49:26Z mauritslamers: currently most of my alists are like (1 . 124) or (1 . '(3456 1)) 2017-10-22T19:49:46Z mauritslamers: (perhaps I am answering my own question if I would suggest an empty list ?) 2017-10-22T19:50:13Z mauritslamers: but would there be something like 'void' or 'empty string' which could be used? 2017-10-22T19:50:49Z mauritslamers: I can of course create something 'magic' which then is removed in the end list, but if there is a language construct for this, I rather use that 2017-10-22T19:51:05Z mauritslamers: my best guess atm is an empty list... 2017-10-22T19:52:12Z wasamasa: you can also use #f as the value 2017-10-22T19:55:09Z pierpa joined #scheme 2017-10-22T19:56:31Z nullcone quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2017-10-22T19:59:39Z M-krsiehl joined #scheme 2017-10-22T19:59:40Z astronavt[m] joined #scheme 2017-10-22T19:59:41Z ArthurAGleckler[ joined #scheme 2017-10-22T19:59:42Z Kooda joined #scheme 2017-10-22T19:59:42Z happy_gnu[m] joined #scheme 2017-10-22T19:59:47Z DeeEff joined #scheme 2017-10-22T20:09:03Z mauritslamers quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-22T20:09:26Z mauritslamers joined #scheme 2017-10-22T20:10:32Z muelleme joined #scheme 2017-10-22T20:21:20Z gwatt: mauritslamers: What about not putting the item you don't want to retrieve into your alist? 2017-10-22T20:36:55Z mauritslamers: because that would lead to a #f in the generated list 2017-10-22T20:37:12Z mauritslamers: it would be great if it would be simply disappear by itself 2017-10-22T20:37:40Z wasamasa: you could, you know, check the value 2017-10-22T20:38:06Z wasamasa: (let ((foo (alist-ref bar bars))) (if foo ...)) 2017-10-22T20:38:25Z mauritslamers: I know :) 2017-10-22T20:38:33Z mauritslamers: but this might happen a lot 2017-10-22T20:38:40Z wasamasa: write a when-let macro 2017-10-22T20:38:44Z mauritslamers: and in the end I need a single dimension list 2017-10-22T20:39:16Z mauritslamers: which is generated out of nested lists... so in flattening the lists the empty lists disappear automatically 2017-10-22T20:39:51Z nullcone joined #scheme 2017-10-22T20:39:56Z wasamasa: write a procedure that does such flattening 2017-10-22T20:40:03Z sethalves joined #scheme 2017-10-22T20:42:45Z mauritslamers: append does miracles already :) point is that sometimes things are empty, sometimes they are not 2017-10-22T20:43:16Z mauritslamers: so, if I have an empty list instead of #f I can always use append to have a simple list 2017-10-22T20:43:37Z mauritslamers: and if it has some data in it, it also works nicely 2017-10-22T20:51:58Z dbmikus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-22T20:56:04Z dbmikus joined #scheme 2017-10-22T20:58:20Z lambda-11235 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-22T21:02:52Z ecraven: mauritslamers: just run (filter true? ...) over the result 2017-10-22T21:03:03Z ecraven: (where you define true? to be whatever you want to filter) 2017-10-22T21:06:17Z mauritslamers: I am just contemplating whether that might be necessary anyhow later on... I will keep it in mind :) 2017-10-22T21:06:27Z dbmikus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-22T21:13:39Z jao joined #scheme 2017-10-22T21:18:03Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Ex Chat) 2017-10-22T21:18:08Z ecraven: may filter-map is useful 2017-10-22T21:18:25Z ecraven: srfi-1, I think 2017-10-22T21:21:47Z vicenteH` is now known as vicenteH 2017-10-22T21:22:35Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-22T21:28:01Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-22T21:39:08Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-22T21:43:38Z bars0 joined #scheme 2017-10-22T21:46:05Z jackdaniel quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-22T21:47:51Z wasamasa: "BiwaScheme does not have syntax-ruels or syntax-case, but has define-macro." 2017-10-22T21:47:59Z wasamasa: reading "syntax-ruels" is grueling 2017-10-22T21:55:05Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2017-10-22T22:01:05Z Riastradh: syntax-ruella-devil 2017-10-22T22:02:22Z bars0 quit (Quit: leaving) 2017-10-22T22:14:14Z kjak: nice 2017-10-22T22:22:04Z civodul joined #scheme 2017-10-22T22:28:47Z civodul quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-22T22:30:13Z daviid joined #scheme 2017-10-22T22:31:20Z civodul joined #scheme 2017-10-22T22:49:45Z pierpa: Does somebody have a copy of: Eric Thivierge and Marc Feeley. Efficient Compilation of Tail Calls and Continuations to JavaScript. In Scheme and Functional Programming Workshop (SFPW'12), September 2012. ? 2017-10-22T22:50:13Z wasamasa: is it a paper? 2017-10-22T22:50:17Z pierpa: yes 2017-10-22T22:50:29Z wasamasa: then there might be a chance to find it on the internets 2017-10-22T22:50:57Z pierpa: it was available from http://users-cs.au.dk/danvy/sfp12/papers/thivierge-feeley-paper-sfp12.pdf but this is gone 2017-10-22T22:51:09Z pierpa: if it's available, goggle can't find it 2017-10-22T22:51:41Z wasamasa: too easy: https://web.archive.org/web/20160402084454/http://users-cs.au.dk/danvy/sfp12/papers/thivierge-feeley-paper-sfp12.pdf 2017-10-22T22:51:42Z rudybot: http://teensy.info/OiSWMfsOAx 2017-10-22T22:51:47Z pierpa: Marc Feeley has another link in his home page but that's gone too 2017-10-22T22:51:55Z pierpa: aha! 2017-10-22T22:51:57Z pierpa: Thank you! 2017-10-22T22:52:30Z wasamasa: I didn't even need to bust out my paper-specific resources 2017-10-22T22:53:14Z pierpa must learn to trust more archive.org... 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ZZZzzz…) 2017-10-23T17:27:02Z nur0n joined #scheme 2017-10-23T17:27:08Z jcob joined #scheme 2017-10-23T17:27:43Z jcob: Anyone have a good intro to scheme macros? I'm having a hard time understanding them. 2017-10-23T17:28:20Z Riastradh: jcob: Which part of them? What are you trying to figure out and having a hard time with? 2017-10-23T17:28:38Z nur0n: jcob: I just came across this: http://www.greghendershott.com/fear-of-macros/ 2017-10-23T17:28:51Z Riastradh: Are you just trying to figure out basic syntax-rules macros, or are you studying how hygienic macros work under the hood, or are you studying really elaborate applications of complex macros, or...? 2017-10-23T17:29:02Z jcob: Just getting started. Like the very very basic, eg a reverse like: (reverse (1 2 +)) => (+ 1 2) 2017-10-23T17:29:37Z jcob: just because I find myself repeating a pattern that I want to turn into a macro 2017-10-23T17:29:45Z Riastradh: jcob: Well... Writing that requires a little bit of work either with syntax-rules or with the more complex macro tools. 2017-10-23T17:30:18Z jcob: Its alright, I just want to get started and get there eventually 2017-10-23T17:31:54Z Riastradh: jcob: If you just want to get started with syntax-rules macros, you might start with Joe Marshall's syntax-rules primer for the merely eccentric. (The title is a reference to an article on more esoteric uses of macros, a syntax-rules primer for the mildly insane.) 2017-10-23T17:34:46Z jcob: Thank you. PS: Does the basic implementation of macros vary widely? A lot of times when I try things out in my chicken repl they just dont work >:( 2017-10-23T17:35:09Z Riastradh: jcob: syntax-rules is widely available. Fancier macro tools are less so. 2017-10-23T17:35:46Z theLambda left #scheme 2017-10-23T17:36:41Z ertes joined #scheme 2017-10-23T17:38:38Z nur0n: While on the topic of macros, can anyone verify I am not going crazy? I'm trying out a not-stable release of some scheme and I'm getting weird output. I'm not sure if the compiler has a bug, or I'm missing something obvious. 2017-10-23T17:38:54Z nur0n: The pastebin: https://pastebin.com/AZfjj5ig 2017-10-23T17:40:01Z Riastradh: nur0n: When you invoke it with (test-mac (1)), what kind of object is xs? 2017-10-23T17:40:32Z jcob quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-23T17:42:55Z nur0n: Riastradh: thank you! I was trying to splice in a syntax object -_- 2017-10-23T17:43:25Z nur0n: When will I learn to stop doubting the compiler? 2017-10-23T17:44:09Z nur0n: A call to 'syntax->datum' fixed it 2017-10-23T17:49:05Z gwatt: nur0n: what scheme are you running this in? 2017-10-23T17:55:50Z mauritslamers_ joined #scheme 2017-10-23T17:55:51Z nur0n: gwatt: Gerbil https://github.com/vyzo/gerbil 2017-10-23T17:55:58Z alezost joined #scheme 2017-10-23T17:56:25Z mauritslamers quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-23T17:56:25Z mauritslamers_ is now known as mauritslamers 2017-10-23T18:10:25Z turbofail joined #scheme 2017-10-23T18:11:23Z weinholt quit 2017-10-23T18:13:38Z stee_3_ joined #scheme 2017-10-23T18:17:35Z stee_3 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-23T18:36:58Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-23T18:37:18Z mejja joined #scheme 2017-10-23T18:38:59Z shiyaz joined #scheme 2017-10-23T18:42:16Z mauritslamers quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-23T18:42:32Z mauritslamers_ joined #scheme 2017-10-23T18:46:55Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-23T18:49:39Z hapticFeels joined #scheme 2017-10-23T18:55:36Z Fare joined #scheme 2017-10-23T19:07:59Z jmd left #scheme 2017-10-23T19:10:47Z manualcrank joined #scheme 2017-10-23T19:23:19Z mauritslamers_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-23T19:23:39Z mauritslamers joined #scheme 2017-10-23T19:26:32Z hapticFeels quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-23T19:34:41Z gravicappa joined #scheme 2017-10-23T19:42:59Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-23T19:43:36Z DGASAU joined #scheme 2017-10-23T19:58:05Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-23T19:58:16Z ngz joined #scheme 2017-10-23T20:00:32Z Murii|osx joined #scheme 2017-10-23T20:44:59Z Murii|osx quit (Quit: Leaving ya!) 2017-10-23T20:45:58Z n_blownapart joined #scheme 2017-10-23T21:00:01Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-23T21:02:28Z n_blownapart quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-23T21:02:57Z n_blownapart joined #scheme 2017-10-23T21:10:19Z n_blownapart quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-23T21:10:25Z n_blowna_ joined #scheme 2017-10-23T21:12:36Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-23T21:19:46Z alezost quit (Quit: I live in GuixSD and Emacs ) 2017-10-23T21:20:02Z n_blowna_ is now known as crucify_me 2017-10-23T21:23:08Z marvin2 quit 2017-10-23T21:24:30Z ngz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-23T21:29:51Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-23T21:36:38Z crucify_me quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-23T21:37:04Z crucify_me joined #scheme 2017-10-23T21:40:14Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-23T21:44:33Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-23T21:51:01Z nur0n quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - 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Like, if I use Racket, is there value in breaking out the mostly self-contained bits into r6rs and only use #lang racket for the pieces that need it? 2017-10-24T04:18:21Z ketralnis: Or is that more pain than it's worth? 2017-10-24T04:21:40Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-24T04:21:40Z shpx quit (Changing host) 2017-10-24T04:21:40Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-24T04:25:35Z lambda-11235 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-24T04:26:17Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2017-10-24T04:30:05Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-24T04:33:03Z jcowan joined #scheme 2017-10-24T04:47:21Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-24T04:53:54Z mauritslamers quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-24T04:54:06Z mauritslamers joined #scheme 2017-10-24T05:00:05Z takitus: ketralnis: If the Racket sections can be easily isolated, that would be good for portability. 2017-10-24T05:04:57Z shpx quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-24T05:15:58Z wasamasa: ketralnis: I picked up my second one now because I needed the java interop 2017-10-24T05:18:53Z lambda-11235 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-24T05:20:03Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-24T05:25:18Z pilne quit (Quit: Quitting!) 2017-10-24T05:32:47Z cemerick_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-24T05:38:44Z dtornabene joined #scheme 2017-10-24T05:54:14Z cemerick_ joined #scheme 2017-10-24T06:09:35Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-24T06:24:52Z cemerick joined #scheme 2017-10-24T06:27:27Z cemerick_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-24T06:32:40Z takitus quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-24T06:40:05Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-24T06:41:36Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-24T06:51:31Z GreaseMonkey joined #scheme 2017-10-24T07:05:01Z excelsior quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-24T07:06:06Z ertes quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-24T07:12:04Z bwv quit (Quit: bwv) 2017-10-24T07:12:07Z excelsior joined #scheme 2017-10-24T07:14:11Z murii 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nomicflux joined #scheme 2017-10-24T12:26:46Z ertes-w joined #scheme 2017-10-24T12:27:47Z ertes-w: hi… is there a scheme with a high-level text UI library ("widgets")? 2017-10-24T12:28:17Z ertes-w: guile-ncurses is rather low-level 2017-10-24T12:29:16Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-24T12:29:21Z mario-goulart: ertes-w: CHICKEN has termbox and ncurses (I've never used them). 2017-10-24T12:30:44Z ertes-w: looks like termbox is on the same level as guile-ncurses… still too low-level 2017-10-24T12:31:40Z mario-goulart: You want something like dialog? 2017-10-24T12:31:59Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-24T12:33:06Z mario-goulart: ertes-w: also http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/mojo 2017-10-24T12:33:11Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-24T12:33:11Z shpx quit (Changing host) 2017-10-24T12:33:11Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-24T12:34:54Z dbmikus joined #scheme 2017-10-24T12:35:02Z ertes-w: mario-goulart: something like dialog, but composable… something like haskell's 'brick' library 2017-10-24T12:35:37Z ertes-w: i need at least an interactive list and an edit box 2017-10-24T12:47:55Z nomicflux quit (Quit: nomicflux) 2017-10-24T12:52:42Z excelsior joined #scheme 2017-10-24T12:54:41Z shpx quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-24T12:55:42Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-24T12:55:42Z shpx quit (Changing host) 2017-10-24T12:55:42Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-24T13:01:33Z wasamasa: time to write a binding to stfl I guess 2017-10-24T13:03:12Z C-Keen: stfl? 2017-10-24T13:03:58Z pie_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-24T13:05:54Z dbmikus quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-24T13:07:47Z excelsior quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-24T13:22:39Z lritter__ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-24T13:25:38Z brendyn quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-24T13:25:44Z excelsior joined #scheme 2017-10-24T13:27:56Z dtornabene quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-24T13:34:50Z wasamasa: the thing newsbeuter uses 2017-10-24T13:34:58Z wasamasa: 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manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-25T04:27:40Z ebzzry joined #scheme 2017-10-25T04:27:49Z ebzzry: Is anyone familiar with Scheme48, here? 2017-10-25T04:28:19Z Riastradh: A little bit, why? 2017-10-25T04:42:50Z ebzzry: Is there a way to load a specific procedure from a structure. For example, can I load only make-table from the tables structure? 2017-10-25T04:43:42Z jim quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-25T04:43:43Z ebzzry: When I open the tables structure, it warns me that one of the provided procedures, string-hash, conflicts with the one in srfi-13. 2017-10-25T04:46:00Z jim joined #scheme 2017-10-25T04:47:07Z Riastradh: Instead of using (open tables) in define-structure, you can use (open (subset tables (make-table))). 2017-10-25T04:53:14Z ebzzry: Riastradh: I forgot to mention that I’m using Scheme48 within Scsh. 2017-10-25T04:53:20Z ebzzry: Riastradh: Does that still apply? 2017-10-25T04:53:29Z dtornabene quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-25T05:04:36Z Riastradh: ebzzry: Yes. 2017-10-25T05:07:48Z ebzzry: Riastradh: scsh complains with (open (subset tables (make-table))) 2017-10-25T05:07:54Z ebzzry: assertion-violation: undefined variable [global] 2017-10-25T05:07:56Z ebzzry: tables 2017-10-25T05:07:57Z Riastradh: ebzzry: Full example? 2017-10-25T05:07:58Z ebzzry: scsh-user 2017-10-25T05:08:15Z ebzzry: Riastradh: that one 2017-10-25T05:08:35Z Riastradh: ebzzry: No, I mean, can you show me the whole input to scsh that led to this, and how you invoked scsh? 2017-10-25T05:10:15Z ebzzry: Riastradh: I’m using `-o tables` with https://github.com/ebzzry/usync/blob/master/usync 2017-10-25T05:10:33Z ebzzry: Riastradh: the program works, but emits a warning. 2017-10-25T05:10:49Z ebzzry: I use '2> /dev/null' to mask the warning 2017-10-25T05:10:59Z Riastradh: ebzzry: OK. In order to use the subset operation with open, you'll need to lay it out as a structure definition for scsh to invoke a top-level entry point from. 2017-10-25T05:11:34Z ebzzry: Riastradh: Oh. I’m sorry, I don’t know to do that. 2017-10-25T05:11:45Z ebzzry: Riastradh: How should I do it? 2017-10-25T05:12:43Z Riastradh: You can do this with the `-dm' option. See the sort example at , though define-structures is unnecessary -- all you need is one define-structure that exports the entry point for use with `-e'. 2017-10-25T05:13:04Z ebzzry: Let me read that 2017-10-25T05:13:05Z Riastradh: Where it says (open scheme), you'll want to do (open scheme-with-scsh) and (open (subset tables (make-table))). 2017-10-25T05:13:06Z shdeng joined #scheme 2017-10-25T05:14:56Z ebzzry: Is scheme-with-scsh a special symbol? 2017-10-25T05:15:34Z Riastradh: It's a `structure' in the Scheme48 configuration language. See for an explanation of scheme-with-scsh. 2017-10-25T05:15:48Z ebzzry: Ok. Let me read all those. 2017-10-25T05:20:47Z jim quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-25T05:22:57Z wigust joined #scheme 2017-10-25T05:24:07Z jim joined #scheme 2017-10-25T05:25:02Z shpx quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-25T05:37:37Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-25T05:38:10Z ebzzry: Riastradh: I used it with https://github.com/ebzzry/usync/blob/structs/usync 2017-10-25T05:38:15Z ebzzry: Riastradh: However I got this: 2017-10-25T05:38:32Z ebzzry: assertion-violation [package-source] with no handler in place: unrecognized define-structure keyword(...) 2017-10-25T05:38:34Z ebzzry: stack template id's: 3016 <- 1720 <- 3015 <- 1299 <- 7044 <- 7077 <- 7086 <- 7152 <- 1720 <- 7151 <- 1258 <- 1720 <- <- <- 1720 <- <- 1720 <- 6625 <- 3309 <- 2017-10-25T05:38:34Z Riastradh: ebzzry: Need to wrap the Scheme code in a (begin ...). 2017-10-25T05:38:36Z ebzzry: y 2017-10-25T05:39:12Z ebzzry: Riastradh: oh 2017-10-25T05:39:15Z Riastradh: (define-structure usync (export main) (open scheme-with-scsh) (open (subset tables (make-table))) (begin (define version "0.0.2") (define debug #f) ...)) 2017-10-25T05:39:25Z Riastradh: [define-structures works too, just more verbose than you need.] 2017-10-25T05:41:32Z ebzzry: Riastradh: the program loads now. I committed the changes. Now, I need to correct this: 2017-10-25T05:41:34Z ebzzry: warning: undefined variables [print-undefined-names] 2017-10-25T05:41:36Z ebzzry: #{package 374 usync} 2017-10-25T05:41:38Z ebzzry: string-null? 2017-10-25T05:41:40Z ebzzry: remove 2017-10-25T05:41:42Z ebzzry: last 2017-10-25T05:41:59Z Riastradh: ebzzry: Probably also want to open srfi-1 and srfi-13! 2017-10-25T05:42:43Z ebzzry: Is the syntax (open srfi-1) and (open srfi-13) 2017-10-25T05:42:47Z Riastradh: Yep. 2017-10-25T05:43:10Z ebzzry: Let me do it. 2017-10-25T05:47:22Z ebzzry: Riastradh: It works now! 2017-10-25T05:47:30Z ebzzry: Riastradh: https://github.com/ebzzry/usync/blob/master/usync 2017-10-25T05:47:40Z ebzzry: Thanks, TC! 2017-10-25T05:47:57Z Riastradh: ebzzry: Cool! 2017-10-25T05:49:13Z wasamasa: hm, I'd have expected scsh to have an argparse thing built in 2017-10-25T05:51:16Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T05:51:16Z shpx quit (Changing host) 2017-10-25T05:51:16Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T05:56:05Z shpx quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-25T06:04:48Z Menche joined #scheme 2017-10-25T06:15:10Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-25T06:21:06Z pilne quit (Quit: Quitting!) 2017-10-25T06:24:26Z ebzzry: Riastradh: Is github.com/riastradh yours? 2017-10-25T06:24:50Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T06:24:50Z shpx quit (Changing host) 2017-10-25T06:24:50Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T06:25:33Z ebzzry: Riastradh: I don’t think so. Should I use http://community.schemewiki.org/?Riastradh to refer to you? 2017-10-25T06:29:21Z shpx quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-25T06:30:09Z GreaseMonkey: for speculation i think "he is a sophisticated AI written in Common Lisp" would work 2017-10-25T06:30:44Z GreaseMonkey: ...which is probably not a good first line for me to write. hi. i'm recent to this scheme thing and i use chicken. 2017-10-25T06:52:50Z wigust quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-25T06:55:49Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T06:55:49Z shpx quit (Changing host) 2017-10-25T06:55:50Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T06:56:58Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-25T06:58:46Z wasamasa: he? 2017-10-25T07:00:53Z shpx quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-25T07:03:35Z ertes quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-25T07:13:31Z ebzzry: wasamasa: Riastradh 2017-10-25T07:13:58Z wasamasa: nah, an AI can't replace a good writer: http://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/style.txt 2017-10-25T07:22:13Z GreaseMonkey: "Affix asterisks to the beginning and end of a globally mutable variable. This allows the reader of the program to recognize very easily that it is badly written!" <-- i like this already 2017-10-25T07:22:57Z GreaseMonkey: with that said, i'd say globals are important to have from the perspective of hackability from a REPL 2017-10-25T07:31:28Z ertes-w joined #scheme 2017-10-25T07:31:40Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T07:31:40Z shpx quit (Changing host) 2017-10-25T07:31:40Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T07:36:28Z shpx quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-25T07:37:20Z JuanDaugherty joined #scheme 2017-10-25T07:44:56Z mauritslamers joined #scheme 2017-10-25T07:47:33Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Ex Chat) 2017-10-25T07:48:04Z JuanDaugherty joined #scheme 2017-10-25T07:48:41Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-25T07:49:55Z ebzzry: wasamasa: :) 2017-10-25T07:50:23Z ebzzry: GreaseMonkey: yes. That is also the convention in CL. 2017-10-25T07:56:41Z GreaseMonkey: also, need an expert opinion on this, which feels better here? https://gist.github.com/iamgreaser/a3a8e0216d155384f740fb46494a6c3a 2017-10-25T07:57:19Z GreaseMonkey: extensions of classes are done by putting symbols at the front of the class name list thing 2017-10-25T07:58:16Z GreaseMonkey: i did NOT want to define it as 'new-object!, because, well, that's almost guaranteed to clash 2017-10-25T07:59:18Z GreaseMonkey: here i'm going for something closely related to BYOND's class system where you have names like e.g. /obj/item/table/reinforced 2017-10-25T07:59:34Z GreaseMonkey: except, well, extending from the left makes so much more sense with lisp's list system 2017-10-25T08:00:45Z GreaseMonkey: as if i want information on any superclasses i can just use cdr a few times 2017-10-25T08:01:06Z GreaseMonkey: e.g. (assoc (cdr thing-class) class-table) 2017-10-25T08:01:26Z brendyn joined #scheme 2017-10-25T08:03:21Z 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quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-25T14:26:08Z pjb joined #scheme 2017-10-25T14:28:46Z daviid joined #scheme 2017-10-25T14:47:18Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T14:47:18Z shpx quit (Changing host) 2017-10-25T14:47:18Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T14:48:28Z hooverville joined #scheme 2017-10-25T14:52:05Z shpx quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-25T14:57:50Z shiyaz joined #scheme 2017-10-25T15:00:13Z shiyas quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-25T15:16:22Z ebrasca joined #scheme 2017-10-25T15:16:38Z ebrasca: How is guile compared to common lisp? 2017-10-25T15:17:50Z shiyas joined #scheme 2017-10-25T15:19:46Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T15:19:46Z shpx quit (Changing host) 2017-10-25T15:19:46Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T15:19:53Z pjb: ebrasca: orange to architectural plan. 2017-10-25T15:20:23Z shiyaz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-25T15:20:33Z pjb: ebrasca: you can compare two fruits, such as an orange and an apple (guile and racket) or even an orange and a pineapple (guile and sbcl). 2017-10-25T15:20:49Z pjb: ebrasca: but you cannot compare things that are in different categories, such as 3 and the Sun. 2017-10-25T15:21:15Z pjb: ebrasca: perhaps you want to compare r7rs with Common Lisp? 2017-10-25T15:23:34Z ebrasca: pjb: yea 2017-10-25T15:23:53Z ebrasca: pjb: r7rs with Common Lisp 2017-10-25T15:24:49Z shpx quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-25T15:25:28Z pjb: Well, you will have to start reading both: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index.htm and r7rs, but r7rs is not finished yet. 2017-10-25T15:26:07Z pjb: http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/ 2017-10-25T15:26:10Z ebrasca: pjb: do you have someting like quicklisp ? 2017-10-25T15:26:43Z pjb: There are libraries and modules (and SRFIs), but I don't know anything like quicklisp. 2017-10-25T15:27:22Z ebrasca: pjb: how do you load your libraries? 2017-10-25T15:28:13Z pjb: Well, I don't know precisely. Check the user manual. (I know more r5rs, and there's no standard mechanism in r5rs). 2017-10-25T15:30:10Z ebrasca: I have read in scheme you need to rewrite you code. 2017-10-25T15:30:44Z pjb: https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/libraries/ 2017-10-25T15:31:06Z gwatt: ebrasca: what do you mean by that? 2017-10-25T15:32:14Z pjb: There are libraries for guile. 2017-10-25T15:32:15Z ebrasca: gwatt: you can get broken libraries from old scheme to new. like from 5 to 7 2017-10-25T15:32:31Z pjb: There's also #guile ; they probably know better there. 2017-10-25T15:32:40Z gwatt: well, r5rs didn't have the concept of libraries. 2017-10-25T15:33:00Z gwatt: and the library forms changed slightly from r6rs to r7rs, for some reason 2017-10-25T15:33:44Z gwatt: So yes, different versions of the scheme reports have changed fundamentals of the language. 2017-10-25T15:36:28Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2017-10-25T15:37:54Z ebrasca: Is it true scheme is only for university coding? 2017-10-25T15:38:35Z cmaloney: #f 2017-10-25T15:38:36Z pjb: It is false. 2017-10-25T15:38:58Z pjb: But I would say that Common Lisp is more of an industry-strong programming language than scheme. 2017-10-25T15:39:25Z pjb: There are application written in some implementation of scheme, and several implementations of scheme are good enough to do that too. 2017-10-25T15:40:03Z LeoNerd: "Scheme" is just a language spec, and before r7 doesn't really contain enough useful stuff on its own to have any real-world utility; so in practice people don't write "Scheme" they write for some specific dialect of scheme that their implementation provides 2017-10-25T15:40:53Z LeoNerd: Much similar can be said of e.g. C; that in reality hardly anyone ever writes plain C programs, but maybe they'd write a program on C+POSIX+Linux or whatever. It's just that for some reason those people still say and are considered to be "writing C", whereas in Scheme it's much more usual to talk about the name of the specific implementation 2017-10-25T15:43:07Z ebrasca: Common lisp have hunchentoot. ( http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/ ) 2017-10-25T15:44:45Z ebrasca: Is there some good web server in scheme? 2017-10-25T15:47:33Z greatscottttt quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9) 2017-10-25T15:52:08Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T15:52:08Z shpx quit (Changing host) 2017-10-25T15:52:08Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T15:54:29Z wasamasa: racket has one, CHICKEN, too 2017-10-25T15:55:07Z ebrasca: wasamasa: some name? 2017-10-25T15:56:35Z shpx quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-25T15:57:31Z wasamasa: everyone refers to the racket thing as the built-in webserver 2017-10-25T15:57:41Z wasamasa: the one for CHICKEN is spiffy 2017-10-25T16:00:12Z wasamasa: there's certainly more, but the two are from scheme implementations with hundreds of libraries 2017-10-25T16:01:42Z ebrasca: wasamasa: firt read of spiffy lock good 2017-10-25T16:02:04Z wasamasa: there's an upcoming book for racket: http://serverracket.com/ 2017-10-25T16:02:20Z manualcrank joined #scheme 2017-10-25T16:03:11Z wasamasa: http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/awful is a thing, but I never used it 2017-10-25T16:03:18Z wasamasa: I'm more a fan of libraries than frameworks 2017-10-25T16:04:35Z ertes-w quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-25T16:05:10Z ebrasca: Do you have some operative system in scheme? 2017-10-25T16:05:18Z ebrasca: common lisp have mezzano 2017-10-25T16:06:05Z wasamasa: there's dreamos 2017-10-25T16:08:38Z ebrasca is reading if it can start in bare metal. 2017-10-25T16:12:58Z ebrasca: I read it is in assembly. 2017-10-25T16:13:05Z shiyas quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-25T16:13:08Z ebrasca: "Dream is an R4RS Scheme interpreter written in assembly language" 2017-10-25T16:16:13Z LeoNerd: r4? Wow 2017-10-25T16:18:30Z ebrasca: LeoNerd: Is r4 bad? 2017-10-25T16:19:11Z LeoNerd: Just rather old 2017-10-25T16:19:33Z LeoNerd: Generally people either look at r5 or r7 2017-10-25T16:19:55Z alezost joined #scheme 2017-10-25T16:20:21Z ebrasca like 1 lisp for all. 2017-10-25T16:20:59Z ebrasca he think common lisp is good. 2017-10-25T16:21:23Z jao joined #scheme 2017-10-25T16:21:52Z LeoNerd: If *frightfully* common, what what 2017-10-25T16:22:12Z ebrasca: yea it is common 2017-10-25T16:22:32Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T16:22:32Z shpx quit (Changing host) 2017-10-25T16:22:32Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T16:22:40Z ebrasca: Thanks you for help. 2017-10-25T16:22:58Z ebrasca: Maybe some day I learn guile. 2017-10-25T16:23:51Z ebrasca: Why you need to say scheme and not lisp? 2017-10-25T16:24:41Z jcowan: I haven't been able to build dream for years 2017-10-25T16:25:36Z jcowan: We say "Scheme" because it's many Schemes for many people, and not one Lisp for all. 2017-10-25T16:25:59Z jcowan: John McCarthy made sure that plain "Lisp" would never be the name of a standard 2017-10-25T16:26:09Z ebrasca: But you are lisp. 2017-10-25T16:26:27Z jcowan: Yes, Scheme is a Lisp, just as Chicken or Guile or even Racket are Schemes 2017-10-25T16:26:48Z ebrasca: mmm 2017-10-25T16:27:05Z shpx quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-25T16:27:11Z ebrasca: it is lisp family vs fortran family. 2017-10-25T16:28:16Z jcowan: There are about five Lisps still functional: Scheme, Common Lisp, AutoLisp, Elisp, Clojure 2017-10-25T16:28:31Z jcowan: ISLisp is basically dead, which I keep meaning to fix but never getting to 2017-10-25T16:29:03Z ebrasca: what about emacs lisp? 2017-10-25T16:29:09Z jcowan: Dylan and EuLisp are dead, so is Interlisp, so are MacLisp and its relatives and descendants (except for Common Lisp) 2017-10-25T16:29:13Z jcowan: Elisp = Emacs Lisp 2017-10-25T16:31:10Z ebrasca: is chojure runing in java virtual machine? 2017-10-25T16:31:43Z ebrasca: yes it is 2017-10-25T16:43:35Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T16:43:35Z shpx quit (Changing host) 2017-10-25T16:43:35Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T16:47:18Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2017-10-25T16:48:33Z shpx quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-25T16:55:47Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T16:55:47Z shpx quit (Changing host) 2017-10-25T16:55:47Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T16:57:20Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-25T17:00:58Z shpx quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-25T17:13:26Z takitus: LeoNerd: Heh, Common(ers') Lisp. Thanks for that. 2017-10-25T17:15:17Z lritter quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-25T17:16:06Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T17:16:06Z shpx quit (Changing host) 2017-10-25T17:16:06Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T17:26:35Z alezost quit (Quit: I live in GuixSD and Emacs ) 2017-10-25T17:33:14Z vicenteH quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-25T18:00:14Z takitus quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-25T18:05:02Z takitus joined #scheme 2017-10-25T18:05:54Z wigust quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-25T18:11:00Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-25T18:18:08Z webshinra quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-25T18:20:43Z webshinra joined #scheme 2017-10-25T18:28:28Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-25T18:39:39Z pie_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-25T18:39:53Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-25T18:41:15Z lambda-11235 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-25T18:57:00Z edgar-rft joined #scheme 2017-10-25T19:04:00Z jmd joined #scheme 2017-10-25T19:32:10Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-25T19:34:15Z Steverman joined #scheme 2017-10-25T19:35:50Z Murii|osx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T19:39:01Z nilg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-25T19:52:37Z cemerick joined #scheme 2017-10-25T19:55:47Z shpx quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-25T20:00:12Z nullcone joined #scheme 2017-10-25T20:09:36Z arbv quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-25T20:09:50Z arbv joined #scheme 2017-10-25T20:12:57Z marcux joined #scheme 2017-10-25T20:23:06Z peterhil joined #scheme 2017-10-25T20:45:48Z renopt quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-25T20:46:05Z turbofail quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-25T20:47:56Z renopt joined #scheme 2017-10-25T20:54:07Z Murii|osx quit (Quit: Leaving ya!) 2017-10-25T20:59:25Z shpx joined #scheme 2017-10-25T21:09:32Z turbofail joined #scheme 2017-10-25T21:16:15Z marcux quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-25T21:26:22Z smazga quit (Quit: leaving) 2017-10-25T21:26:57Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-25T21:30:09Z Steverman quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-25T21:33:30Z ertes joined #scheme 2017-10-25T21:48:05Z civodul joined #scheme 2017-10-25T21:54:21Z civodul` joined #scheme 2017-10-25T21:54:47Z civodul quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-25T21:57:42Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-25T21:59:01Z civodul` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-25T22:01:55Z civodul joined #scheme 2017-10-25T22:03:58Z hooverville quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-25T22:26:10Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-25T22:33:29Z YottaByte joined #scheme 2017-10-25T22:34:02Z YottaByte: hi, what's the easiest scheme to setup on windows? I wish there was like homebrew for windows or something. it's looking like chez, but I still have to clone the repo and build it it seems 2017-10-25T22:44:29Z vicenteH joined #scheme 2017-10-25T22:45:49Z Steverman joined #scheme 2017-10-25T22:48:52Z gwatt: THere's IronScheme which is a .NET implementation 2017-10-25T22:52:55Z gwatt: Though if you don't need the compiler and are ok with something pretty out-of-date, you can get petite chez scheme 8.4 2017-10-25T22:55:09Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Ex Chat) 2017-10-25T22:55:11Z gwatt: wait, nevermind. There's an installer on the cisco.github.io page 2017-10-25T22:55:13Z gwatt: https://github.com/cisco/ChezScheme/releases/download/v9.5/ChezScheme9.5.exe 2017-10-25T22:55:41Z gwatt: YottaByte: ^^ 2017-10-25T22:59:52Z pjb: YottaByte: I don't know much MS-Windows, but I would guess Racket would be the easiest to run on MS-Windows. Then I would try to use MIT-scheme (with a X11 window server for edwin). 2017-10-25T22:59:53Z brendyn joined #scheme 2017-10-25T23:01:20Z Kooda: YottaByte: CHICKEN has a windows installer with batteries included http://www.kiatoa.com/cgi-bin/fossils/chicken-iup/index 2017-10-25T23:01:25Z Kooda: Never tried it though. 2017-10-25T23:12:16Z daviid joined #scheme 2017-10-25T23:15:32Z mejja: YottaByte: vmware player https://www.vmware.com/ + linux of your choice http://www.osboxes.org/ and you are up and running in half an hour or less 2017-10-25T23:17:51Z dbmikus quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-25T23:25:14Z shpx quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2017-10-25T23:32:04Z takitus: Ugh... We need SchemeOS :) 2017-10-25T23:33:04Z theta2 joined #scheme 2017-10-25T23:38:02Z pie_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-25T23:38:09Z YottaByte quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-25T23:38:23Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-25T23:54:37Z pie___ joined #scheme 2017-10-25T23:54:43Z pie_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-26T00:06:08Z YottaByte joined #scheme 2017-10-26T00:06:08Z YottaByte quit (Changing host) 2017-10-26T00:06:09Z YottaByte joined #scheme 2017-10-26T00:06:32Z YottaByte: gwatt ooo trying this now 2017-10-26T00:09:26Z YottaByte: gwatt worked like a charm 2017-10-26T00:10:29Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-26T00:10:57Z pie___ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-26T00:11:28Z YottaByte: who is Andy Keep? he seems to be involved with Chez 2017-10-26T00:11:31Z YottaByte: does he work on the compiler? 2017-10-26T00:11:34Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-26T00:12:01Z YottaByte: oh, he was a student of dybvig 2017-10-26T00:12:50Z 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I am getting a string which I have to map each character to a different one (mapping to braille dots). The problem I have is that I get what looks like a multi-byte character, but which the string->list and string-ref function interpret as two chars 2017-10-26T12:14:24Z mauritslamers: How can I avoid this? 2017-10-26T12:14:52Z mauritslamers: Because of the environment I am unable to load ice9 unicode, as it is not provided in that environment, and it has to fit that environment 2017-10-26T12:31:19Z pie___ joined #scheme 2017-10-26T12:41:39Z nomicflux quit (Quit: nomicflux) 2017-10-26T12:46:54Z gwatt: This is guile? 2017-10-26T12:49:21Z mauritslamers: gwatt: yes 2017-10-26T12:49:25Z jao joined #scheme 2017-10-26T12:49:31Z mauritslamers: and an embedded, restricted guile 2017-10-26T12:49:42Z gwatt: well, that probably doesn't help 2017-10-26T12:49:45Z mauritslamers: because it is the environment in which Lilypond source code runs 2017-10-26T12:50:08Z gwatt: and that means I probably can't help you, because the normal guile repl seems to be fine with unicode 2017-10-26T12:50:12Z gwatt: also, which version of guile? 2017-10-26T12:50:22Z mauritslamers: 1.8.4 IIRC 2017-10-26T12:51:01Z gwatt: That's pretty old. 2017-10-26T12:53:07Z mauritslamers: eh, 1.8.7 2017-10-26T12:53:20Z mauritslamers: also not too young 2017-10-26T12:57:18Z gwatt: like 10 years old 2017-10-26T12:58:37Z jmd joined #scheme 2017-10-26T13:01:04Z mauritslamers: I also have a guile REPL running from that package, and it gives me an error when I do (integer->char 8217) => value out of range 0 to 255 2017-10-26T13:03:33Z badkins joined #scheme 2017-10-26T13:04:05Z excelsior quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-26T13:06:18Z excelsior joined #scheme 2017-10-26T13:10:41Z excelsior quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-26T13:17:41Z nullcone quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2017-10-26T13:21:16Z brendyn quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-26T13:25:58Z hooverville joined #scheme 2017-10-26T13:26:07Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-26T13:40:57Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-26T13:41:20Z badkins joined #scheme 2017-10-26T14:03:45Z pie___ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-26T14:15:07Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-26T14:23:09Z Steverman joined #scheme 2017-10-26T14:23:46Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-26T14:28:26Z badkins joined #scheme 2017-10-26T14:50:39Z gwatt: Does that version of guile support bytevectors? 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2017-10-26T19:56:25Z mauritslamers: takitus: yes 2017-10-26T19:56:55Z mauritslamers: There is a excellent music notation program Lilypond, which is written in Scheme (Guile to be exact) 2017-10-26T19:57:30Z mauritslamers: because of the way it approaches music notation (the LaTeX way), it solves many issues, especially also for blind people. 2017-10-26T19:57:58Z mauritslamers: but it still lacks music braille support, but it is rather suited to support it 2017-10-26T19:58:19Z takitus: mauritslamers: Yeah, I'm familiar with it. Braille support is a cool idea. 2017-10-26T19:58:32Z mauritslamers: I have a working implementation for single voice music 2017-10-26T19:58:55Z mauritslamers: but it suffers from one specific problem: lack of multi-byte character support in the used Guile version 2017-10-26T19:58:59Z mauritslamers: 1.8.7 2017-10-26T19:59:23Z takitus: mauritslamers: Are you able to do that at the Scheme level, or have you had to dive into the C++ slurry? 2017-10-26T19:59:27Z mauritslamers: scheme 2017-10-26T19:59:37Z mauritslamers: everything currently in a single .ly file that you can simply include 2017-10-26T19:59:44Z takitus: Nice. 2017-10-26T20:00:06Z mauritslamers: it is derived from the event-listener.ly example which is part of the default distribution of Lilypond 2017-10-26T20:00:10Z takitus: But I believe current Lilypond can be built with Guile 2 support? 2017-10-26T20:00:24Z mauritslamers: People have been saying that on the mailing list indeed 2017-10-26T20:00:33Z mauritslamers: but that doesn't bring braille to the people now 2017-10-26T20:00:45Z Riastradh: How much do you need native multi-byte character support? Can you just work in Unicode code points and write their UTF-8 encoding using binary I/O yourself? 2017-10-26T20:00:47Z daviid: mauritslamers: there is a branch that works with 2.0.14, i thnk there is you should ask them 2017-10-26T20:00:51Z mauritslamers: Optimally it should be able to be used with the current lilypond versions 2017-10-26T20:01:36Z mauritslamers: my way of working currently is that I have a assoc list which contains the mapping from characters to braille dots 2017-10-26T20:02:02Z mauritslamers: because of the peculiar way braille embossers work, there is no concensus on the ascii layout of the dots 2017-10-26T20:02:31Z mauritslamers: So, I am trying to define everything into braille dots, so also lyrics 2017-10-26T20:02:44Z mauritslamers: these lyrics arrive in events, with short strings 2017-10-26T20:02:55Z Riastradh: UTF-8 encoding and decoding is easy. If all you need in Braille is output, then you could also just store the pre-encoded octet sequences. 2017-10-26T20:02:58Z mauritslamers: I have to map these strings to braille dots 2017-10-26T20:03:39Z mauritslamers: I need to be able to map an input character (possibly multi-byte) to dots 2017-10-26T20:03:46Z mauritslamers: and in this case I have an inverted comma 2017-10-26T20:03:55Z mauritslamers: which is code point 8217 IIRC 2017-10-26T20:04:03Z Riastradh: OK. Still, encoding and decoding UTF-8 is easy. 2017-10-26T20:04:21Z mauritslamers: in UTF8 that looks as å 2017-10-26T20:04:21Z takitus: Seems like something that could be abstracted as a library. 2017-10-26T20:04:34Z mauritslamers: which could be a separate character by itself 2017-10-26T20:05:37Z mauritslamers: even trying to get this two byte character as a string doesn't seem to work (string-copy src 0 2) 2017-10-26T20:05:51Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-26T20:06:13Z Riastradh: Near the bottom of this code there's a UTF-8 decoder that fits on a single page of C code: https://mumble.net/~campbell/hg/picopb/lib/libpicopb/pb.c Adapting to Scheme should be pretty easy. 2017-10-26T20:06:16Z mauritslamers: I tried to map that one in the assoc list, then retrieve it through assoc-ref, but still it returned #f 2017-10-26T20:06:45Z mauritslamers: Riastradh: in the lilypond context I have a wide-char->utf-8 function 2017-10-26T20:06:50Z mauritslamers: which is implemented in C 2017-10-26T20:07:29Z gwatt: do you have something like utf-8->list which gives you a list of wide-chars? 2017-10-26T20:07:44Z mauritslamers: I am very likely very innocent in this matters, and unknowing, but I don't see what converting to utf8 will bring me at the moment 2017-10-26T20:07:53Z mauritslamers: gwatt: don't think so, but checking 2017-10-26T20:09:00Z mauritslamers: (thanks by the way for all the help, it really is great :) ) 2017-10-26T20:09:08Z Riastradh: mauritslamers: Maybe I misunderstood what your goal was, but it sounded like you have Unicode inputs (which I was guessing are encoded in UTF-8), and you need to produce Unicode outputs (which again I'm guessing you wanted to encode in UTF-8), and you want to do some transformation on them in terms of their code point values. 2017-10-26T20:09:28Z Riastradh: And it sounds like you're doing this in a conext where the notion of `string' and `character' is limited to US-ASCII or to 8-bit character sets or something. 2017-10-26T20:10:29Z mauritslamers: Riastradh: sort of: Lilypond uses old versions of Guile (1.8.7) in which a char is limited to a byte, and which doesn't carry the ice-9 unicode module. 2017-10-26T20:10:46Z mauritslamers: Point is that the input contains a single multi-byte character 2017-10-26T20:10:54Z mauritslamers: (inverted comma) 2017-10-26T20:11:33Z mauritslamers: in order to translate a character to a braille representation, I made a large assoc list, which maps for every character the braille dots 2017-10-26T20:12:04Z mauritslamers: I then create a symbol out of the char and then use assoc-ref to look up the value 2017-10-26T20:12:22Z mauritslamers: (if there are better ways to do this, please tell me!) 2017-10-26T20:12:31Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-26T20:13:02Z mauritslamers: I cannot convert this multi-byte character to something that I can use 2017-10-26T20:13:33Z gwatt: What encoding is the input you're processing? 2017-10-26T20:13:42Z mauritslamers: because I think I cannot know whether that it is a multi-byte character or something simply missing from my list 2017-10-26T20:14:02Z Riastradh: Symbol? 2017-10-26T20:14:15Z Riastradh: You probably don't want to involve symbols here. 2017-10-26T20:14:21Z cmaloney quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-26T20:14:32Z mauritslamers: that might well be my main problem 2017-10-26T20:14:42Z mauritslamers: Though i also tried it with strings, and that didn't work either 2017-10-26T20:15:28Z mauritslamers: The input is "’s He" 2017-10-26T20:16:21Z mauritslamers: if I define an assoc list like (define mylist '("’" . 3)) 2017-10-26T20:16:58Z mauritslamers: and I then try to use (assoc-ref mylist (string-copy src 0 2)) it returns #f 2017-10-26T20:16:59Z Riastradh: Can you show the code you're using? 2017-10-26T20:18:16Z mauritslamers: Riastradh: yes, that is not so much of a problem, but it is rather a large file, what are the bits that you specifically want to see? 2017-10-26T20:22:11Z mauritslamers: Riastradh: http://paste.lisp.org/display/359541 2017-10-26T20:22:38Z mauritslamers: The code to the transformation of a list of lyric events to braille dots 2017-10-26T20:22:48Z Riastradh: guile> (define mylist '(("’" . 3))) 2017-10-26T20:22:48Z Riastradh: guile> (define src "’s He") 2017-10-26T20:22:48Z Riastradh: guile> (assoc-ref mylist (string-copy src 0 3)) 2017-10-26T20:22:48Z Riastradh: 3 2017-10-26T20:23:13Z mauritslamers: ahhh... 2017-10-26T20:23:40Z mauritslamers: I tried something like that, but I never got to 3 as there were other lyrics that were only 2 long 2017-10-26T20:24:15Z Riastradh: What a UTF-8 decoder will tell you is how long you need to scan. 2017-10-26T20:25:09Z mauritslamers: question: I have the function ly:encode-string-for-pdf 2017-10-26T20:25:27Z mauritslamers: description is: Encode the given string to either Latin1 (which is a subset of the PDFDocEncoding) or if that’s not possible to full UTF-16BE with Byte-Order-Mark (BOM). 2017-10-26T20:25:51Z mauritslamers: (let me quickly show what the result of that function is) 2017-10-26T20:26:01Z ngz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-26T20:26:10Z Riastradh: You can get that even without a full UTF-8 decoder too: examine how many high-order 1 bits before the first 0 bit in an octet. Say that's n; the whole code point is encoded in min(1, n) octets. 2017-10-26T20:26:10Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2017-10-26T20:26:55Z carleos joined #scheme 2017-10-26T20:26:58Z cmaloney joined #scheme 2017-10-26T20:27:40Z mauritslamers: Riastradh: "þÿ \x19\x00s\x00 \x00H\x00e" 2017-10-26T20:27:43Z Riastradh: 0xxxxxxx is US-ASCII, 1-octet; 110xxxxx is the first of two octets; 1110xxxx is the first of three octets; and 11110xxx is the first of four octets. 2017-10-26T20:29:12Z mauritslamers: wonderful! that should help a lot 2017-10-26T20:35:23Z Riastradh: er 2017-10-26T20:35:24Z Riastradh: max(1, n) 2017-10-26T20:35:56Z carleos quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-26T20:39:47Z manualcrank joined #scheme 2017-10-26T20:46:44Z mauritslamers quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-26T20:48:21Z mauritslamers joined #scheme 2017-10-26T20:49:57Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-26T21:00:17Z Riastradh: mauritslamers: http://paste.lisp.org/+7PFB 2017-10-26T21:00:29Z Riastradh: (Written for MIT Scheme; translating to Guile 1.8 left as an exercise for the reader.) 2017-10-26T21:01:16Z mauritslamers: Riastradh: Thanks a LOT! 2017-10-26T21:03:40Z Riastradh: Expansion of acronyms: CLZ = Count Leading Zeros; ANDC1 = AND with Complement of first operand; IOR = Inclusive OR; bit-count is also called population count, the number of 1 bits that are set. 2017-10-26T21:03:54Z Riastradh: ...er, the number of 1 bits, a.k.a. the number of bits that are set. 2017-10-26T21:04:31Z Riastradh: The loop in clz rounds up to a power of two minus 1, up to 2^n - 1; x is assumed to be a nonnegative integer below 2^n. 2017-10-26T21:05:28Z mauritslamers: Riastradh: is bitwise-andc1 provided in mit scheme? 2017-10-26T21:05:35Z Riastradh: Think so. 2017-10-26T21:05:42Z Riastradh: If not, it's (bitwise-and (bitwise-not x) y). 2017-10-26T21:06:00Z mauritslamers: guile complains about it 2017-10-26T21:09:20Z mauritslamers: (guile complains about a lot ;-) ) 2017-10-26T21:10:13Z wasamasa: lol 2017-10-26T21:10:28Z wasamasa: I have this impression for everything that throws you into a debugger when you dare making an error 2017-10-26T21:10:33Z wasamasa: including sbcl 2017-10-26T21:11:29Z mauritslamers: shift-left doesn't exist ... for example 2017-10-26T21:16:08Z mauritslamers quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-26T21:16:19Z mauritslamers joined #scheme 2017-10-26T21:18:45Z smazga_ joined #scheme 2017-10-26T21:21:21Z smazga quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-26T21:21:49Z Riastradh: mauritslamers: (shift-left x n) may be spelled (arithmetic-shift x n), and (shift-right x n) as (arithmetic-shift x (- 0 n)). 2017-10-26T21:22:21Z mauritslamers: Riastradh: I found that in Guile, shift-left is actually ash 2017-10-26T21:22:31Z Riastradh: Well, OK, then. 2017-10-26T21:23:11Z mauritslamers: it does also exist as arithmetic-shift x n, but that requires importing srfi-60 2017-10-26T21:23:13Z smazga_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-26T21:23:20Z mauritslamers: and that just provides aliases 2017-10-26T21:23:41Z smazga joined #scheme 2017-10-26T21:23:49Z mauritslamers: I was missing shift-right, but you now provided that... thanks a million 2017-10-26T21:24:42Z mauritslamers: This is my first real work in scheme... had a bit of scheme and lisp lessons before, and dabbled a bit with Clojure 2017-10-26T21:30:35Z pie_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-26T21:35:46Z hooverville quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-26T21:43:31Z brendyn joined #scheme 2017-10-26T21:44:21Z JuanDaugherty joined #scheme 2017-10-26T21:50:35Z motersen joined #scheme 2017-10-26T22:03:32Z mauritslamers: Riastradh: thank you so much, this works perfectly now! :D 2017-10-26T22:12:28Z bentaisan joined #scheme 2017-10-26T22:15:17Z Riastradh: I just added clz to MIT Scheme (along with ffs, fls, and ctz, which are aliases or fencepost adjustments of existing functions). 2017-10-26T22:23:29Z civodul joined #scheme 2017-10-26T22:35:18Z motersen quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 25.3.1) 2017-10-26T22:36:16Z civodul` joined #scheme 2017-10-26T22:38:25Z civodul quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-26T22:42:34Z Murii|osx quit (Quit: Leaving ya!) 2017-10-26T22:43:29Z civodul` is now known as civodul 2017-10-26T22:46:37Z cromachina joined #scheme 2017-10-26T22:49:27Z brendyn quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-26T22:51:08Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.3.1)) 2017-10-26T22:56:46Z ertes joined #scheme 2017-10-26T23:05:12Z smazga quit (Quit: leaving) 2017-10-26T23:06:37Z Steverman quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-26T23:08:38Z Steverman joined #scheme 2017-10-26T23:15:28Z vicenteH quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-26T23:22:09Z cmatei quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-26T23:22:38Z mejja joined #scheme 2017-10-26T23:34:00Z teurastaja joined #scheme 2017-10-27T00:31:21Z MrBusiness quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-27T00:32:54Z cemerick joined #scheme 2017-10-27T00:36:59Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-27T00:37:07Z Menche quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-27T00:38:25Z teurastaja quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-27T00:40:28Z Menche joined #scheme 2017-10-27T00:42:54Z jao joined #scheme 2017-10-27T00:58:27Z pierpa joined #scheme 2017-10-27T01:02:41Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-27T01:05:40Z mauritslamers quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-27T01:06:13Z mauritslamers joined #scheme 2017-10-27T01:08:17Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-27T01:09:18Z takitus: I've seen defines of the form (define ((foo x) y) ...) in various programs, but it doesn't seem to be documented in R7RS or anywhere else. Is it semi-standard? 2017-10-27T01:12:43Z Riastradh: takitus: Semi-standard. Expand it recursively: (define (foo x) (lambda (y) ...)) => (define foo (lambda (x) (lambda (y) ...))) 2017-10-27T01:13:23Z takitus: Riastradh: Ah, thanks. 2017-10-27T01:19:30Z pjb: it's perfectly specified in r5rs. Is it not in r7rs? 2017-10-27T01:24:22Z takitus: pjb: Which section of R5? 2017-10-27T01:27:03Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-27T01:27:31Z takitus: I see S 5.2 specifies the (define (...) ...) form, but there's nothing about recursively expanding (define (..(...)..)..) into nested lambdas. 2017-10-27T01:27:43Z takitus: But I might be thick. 2017-10-27T01:28:15Z Riastradh: pjb: It is not in the R5RS. 2017-10-27T01:39:58Z excelsior quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-27T01:40:43Z excelsior joined #scheme 2017-10-27T01:43:20Z Menche_ joined #scheme 2017-10-27T01:46:05Z Menche quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-27T01:46:39Z terpri joined #scheme 2017-10-27T01:47:42Z Menche_ is now known as Menche 2017-10-27T01:49:58Z brendyn joined #scheme 2017-10-27T01:52:59Z excelsior quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-27T02:05:17Z nomicflux joined #scheme 2017-10-27T02:16:38Z MrBusiness joined #scheme 2017-10-27T02:21:03Z excelsior joined #scheme 2017-10-27T02:22:12Z Steverman quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-27T02:41:01Z mejja quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 56.0/20171003100843]) 2017-10-27T02:52:14Z ArneBab_ joined #scheme 2017-10-27T02:56:33Z ArneBab quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-27T02:57:18Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-10-27T03:03:05Z lambda-11235 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-27T03:16:07Z ebzzry joined #scheme 2017-10-27T03:23:01Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-27T03:23:16Z nomicflux quit (Quit: nomicflux) 2017-10-27T03:47:24Z zod_ left #scheme 2017-10-27T03:50:57Z brendyn quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-27T03:52:43Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Ex Chat) 2017-10-27T03:52:46Z civodul joined #scheme 2017-10-27T04:08:55Z brendyn joined #scheme 2017-10-27T04:20:57Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-27T04:35:30Z mauritslamers quit (Read error: No route to host) 2017-10-27T04:35:35Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-27T04:35:50Z mauritslamers joined #scheme 2017-10-27T04:44:18Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-27T04:46:23Z pjb joined #scheme 2017-10-27T04:51:22Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-27T04:56:05Z mauritslamers quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-27T04:56:42Z mauritslamers joined #scheme 2017-10-27T04:58:41Z emacsomancer joined #scheme 2017-10-27T05:16:39Z akkad: seems r7rs gets a lot of hate, but seems like non-trivial packages are now portable using it 2017-10-27T05:21:27Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-27T05:42:31Z MrBismuth joined #scheme 2017-10-27T05:45:32Z MrBusiness quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-27T05:50:30Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-27T05:50:42Z jp joined #scheme 2017-10-27T06:02:42Z nullcone joined #scheme 2017-10-27T06:44:29Z mauritslamers quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-27T06:46:23Z mauritslamers joined #scheme 2017-10-27T06:50:27Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.3.1)) 2017-10-27T06:57:35Z ertes quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-27T07:18:19Z mauritslamers_ joined #scheme 2017-10-27T07:18:19Z mauritslamers quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-27T07:18:19Z mauritslamers_ is now known as mauritslamers 2017-10-27T07:18:57Z ertes-w joined #scheme 2017-10-27T07:28:36Z GreaseMonkey: from a noob's perspective: r6rs seems to have gotten a lot of hate from being "no longer a nice simple language"... r7rs seems to get the hate from "throwing out a lot of r6rs" - r7rs-small reads more like a logical extension of r5rs, providing a lot of much-needed gap-fillers 2017-10-27T07:32:17Z GreaseMonkey: considering that r7rs didn't introduce something as weird as r5rs's dynamic-wind, or complex as adding macros in r4rs... trying to scrape around though it seems call/cc has been there since at least r3rs 2017-10-27T07:48:04Z GreaseMonkey: ...seems the original scheme report also covers macros to an extent 2017-10-27T07:53:55Z shiyaz joined #scheme 2017-10-27T08:07:10Z murii joined #scheme 2017-10-27T08:08:00Z akkad: scheme has lexical scope? 2017-10-27T08:09:28Z ventonegro: yep 2017-10-27T08:10:16Z akkad: ok cool (def (baz num) (displayln "num is " num)) (def (foo) (let ((bar 1)) (baz 1))) 2017-10-27T08:10:24Z akkad: worked as expected 2017-10-27T08:10:59Z Kooda: That was one of Scheme’s distinctive features back in the days ^^ 2017-10-27T08:11:05Z akkad: I see 2017-10-27T08:11:50Z GreaseMonkey: i'm reading the old reports and apparently (let ((x 2) (y 3)) expr1 expr2) is the same thing as ((lambda (x y) expr1 expr2) 2 3) 2017-10-27T08:12:19Z GreaseMonkey: R2RS is probably the first report that looks like modern scheme 2017-10-27T08:12:57Z GreaseMonkey: RRS and "Scheme" look more like i guess you could say "middle LISP" 2017-10-27T08:13:29Z GreaseMonkey: i think RRS introduced the "let" form though... and named let apparently used to use "iterate" instead of "let" 2017-10-27T08:13:59Z GreaseMonkey: actually if you ignore the fact that it's ALL!IN!CAPS!WITH!BANGS!INSTEAD!OF!DASHES then RRS is nearly there 2017-10-27T08:15:16Z GreaseMonkey: call/cc appeared in R2RS apparently 2017-10-27T08:15:30Z GreaseMonkey: but continuations were discussed i think in the first report 2017-10-27T08:16:22Z GreaseMonkey: oh right, at least RRS had CATCH 2017-10-27T08:21:50Z GreaseMonkey: also, dunno why but the scheme specifications, even the old ones, still feel easier to read than SICP 2017-10-27T08:28:12Z greatscottttt joined #scheme 2017-10-27T08:30:35Z lloda joined #scheme 2017-10-27T08:33:01Z mauritslamers quit (Quit: mauritslamers) 2017-10-27T08:34:36Z vicenteH joined #scheme 2017-10-27T08:37:16Z vicenteH` joined #scheme 2017-10-27T08:39:20Z vicenteH quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-27T08:40:49Z vicenteH` is now known as vicenteH 2017-10-27T08:54:28Z mauritslamers joined #scheme 2017-10-27T09:22:01Z jcowan joined #scheme 2017-10-27T09:22:52Z jcowan__ joined #scheme 2017-10-27T09:23:45Z jcowan_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-27T09:26:28Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-27T09:28:38Z jcowan_ joined #scheme 2017-10-27T09:31:50Z jcowan__ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-27T09:31:56Z jcowan joined #scheme 2017-10-27T09:33:38Z Steverman joined #scheme 2017-10-27T09:34:53Z jcowan_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-27T09:40:09Z cmatei joined #scheme 2017-10-27T09:41:29Z lritter joined #scheme 2017-10-27T09:46:00Z jmd joined #scheme 2017-10-27T09:53:27Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-27T10:04:55Z araujo joined #scheme 2017-10-27T10:04:55Z araujo quit (Changing host) 2017-10-27T10:04:55Z araujo joined #scheme 2017-10-27T10:31:46Z vicenteH quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.2.2)) 2017-10-27T10:32:08Z vicenteH joined #scheme 2017-10-27T10:42:12Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-27T10:46:57Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-27T11:05:05Z pie_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-27T11:05:21Z pie_ joined #scheme 2017-10-27T11:15:25Z mario-goulart quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-27T11:15:56Z mario-goulart joined #scheme 2017-10-27T11:16:06Z ebzzry quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-27T11:23:10Z r0kc4t quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-27T11:24:25Z pie___ joined #scheme 2017-10-27T11:24:32Z r0kc4t joined #scheme 2017-10-27T11:25:27Z pie_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-27T11:27:07Z arbv_ joined #scheme 2017-10-27T11:28:11Z arbv quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-27T11:28:12Z arbv_ is now known as arbv 2017-10-27T11:29:00Z mauritslamers: hey all, I have a question regarding recursively flattening a list 2017-10-27T11:29:28Z mauritslamers: I have a list containing either elements that are lists or numbers, and the lists could exists of another layer of lists 2017-10-27T11:31:30Z gwatt: sure 2017-10-27T11:31:41Z gwatt: pretty straightforward 2017-10-27T11:31:49Z mauritslamers: I have already tried many solutions, including append, map, fold, but nothing seems to do what I think it should do 2017-10-27T11:31:50Z mauritslamers: http://paste.lisp.org/display/359596 2017-10-27T11:32:11Z mauritslamers: gwatt: that is what I expected, but for some reason I am just not succeeding 2017-10-27T11:32:39Z mauritslamers: The procedure should return a single list with one character strings 2017-10-27T11:33:51Z gwatt: You're going to need to handle the recursion yourself here 2017-10-27T11:34:40Z mauritslamers: gwatt: I expected that when I would use the function as a parameter to map, fold or reduce it would give me back a list, which I should be able to append to the existing list 2017-10-27T11:35:47Z gwatt: actually, you may be able to do what you want via fold, but I still don't think map will take you all the way 2017-10-27T11:36:14Z mauritslamers: the funny thing is that when I adjusted the function to use fold, it didn't return any of the changed data 2017-10-27T11:36:31Z gwatt: what was your fold attempt? 2017-10-27T11:36:40Z mauritslamers: moment, will paste 2017-10-27T11:37:35Z mauritslamers: ah, wait I think that I know what went wrong in fold 2017-10-27T11:38:34Z mauritslamers: parameter order for the function 2017-10-27T11:39:12Z mauritslamers: when using the function as a proc for fold, the order is current-value, previous-value 2017-10-27T11:39:34Z mauritslamers: and I probably messed that up... 2017-10-27T11:39:42Z gwatt: depends on fold-left vs fold-right 2017-10-27T11:40:23Z gwatt: fold-left is (acc current-value) fold-right is (current-value acc) 2017-10-27T11:40:58Z mauritslamers: gwatt: also for guile? 2017-10-27T11:42:07Z mauritslamers: reading the docs of fold suggests that it is current-value acc for both..., but then it doesn't mention fold-left 2017-10-27T11:42:56Z gwatt: I was assuming guile 1.8 followed srfi-1 2017-10-27T11:43:53Z mauritslamers: yes, me too... 2017-10-27T11:44:48Z gwatt: so it works now? 2017-10-27T11:45:24Z mauritslamers: https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/SRFI_002d1-Fold-and-Map.html#SRFI_002d1-Fold-and-Map 2017-10-27T11:45:33Z mauritslamers: (working on it...) 2017-10-27T11:48:14Z mauritslamers: (having issues with finding a #f value in the list, which should not happen... ) 2017-10-27T11:49:12Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-27T11:50:14Z gwatt: I meant the list flattening. Is that all good to go? 2017-10-27T11:52:23Z mauritslamers: gwatt: I know that you meant that, I cannot test, because the core procedure of looking up the strings fails somehow... :) 2017-10-27T11:52:38Z mauritslamers: I could bypass that for a sec 2017-10-27T11:55:52Z gwatt: Ah, I feel like you should separate the character loopkups and list flattening so that you can test those independently 2017-10-27T12:00:14Z mauritslamers: gwatt: yes, trying that now... and failing... my scheme is rather rusty I guess... haven't done this in years :) 2017-10-27T12:01:25Z mauritslamers: ah, some kind of success, but it looks now that I have some duplication goingon 2017-10-27T12:02:15Z mauritslamers: and now it is working... jeuj :) 2017-10-27T12:06:27Z jao joined #scheme 2017-10-27T12:07:59Z Steverman quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-27T12:10:31Z mauritslamers: gwatt: thank you for listening to / reading my beginners ramblings 2017-10-27T12:10:53Z mauritslamers: it (sort of) works now... I just have to figure out where the # comes from 2017-10-27T12:15:07Z nomicflux joined #scheme 2017-10-27T12:29:13Z cky quit (K-Lined) 2017-10-27T12:29:13Z GreaseMonkey quit (K-Lined) 2017-10-27T12:29:50Z cky joined #scheme 2017-10-27T12:30:36Z greaser|q joined #scheme 2017-10-27T12:36:07Z gwatt: probably from a one-sided if or a cond without an else 2017-10-27T12:39:59Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-27T12:44:40Z terpri joined #scheme 2017-10-27T12:44:45Z nomicflux quit (Quit: nomicflux) 2017-10-27T12:46:23Z murii quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-27T12:49:37Z excelsior quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-27T12:58:25Z nomicflux joined #scheme 2017-10-27T13:02:45Z nomicflux quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-27T13:08:17Z ebzzry_ joined #scheme 2017-10-27T13:09:01Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-27T13:15:30Z badkins joined #scheme 2017-10-27T13:15:36Z pie___ is now known as pie_ 2017-10-27T13:16:27Z ebzzry_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 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#scheme 2017-10-28T09:06:10Z manualcrank quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-28T09:23:39Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2017-10-28T10:08:38Z qu1j0t3 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-28T10:12:55Z qu1j0t3 joined #scheme 2017-10-28T10:33:18Z dmiles quit 2017-10-28T10:34:37Z dmiles joined #scheme 2017-10-28T10:37:29Z excelsior quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-28T10:38:21Z GreaseMonkey: started writing my own scheme 2017-10-28T10:38:25Z GreaseMonkey: by the way, this is a fun thing to try: 2017-10-28T10:38:28Z GreaseMonkey: '(lambda (x y) `(,x . ,y)) 2017-10-28T10:38:54Z GreaseMonkey: with no special treatment (e.g. Chibi, CHICKEN, Guile) you get (quasiquote ((unquote x) unquote y)) 2017-10-28T10:39:04Z bars0 joined #scheme 2017-10-28T10:39:05Z GreaseMonkey: with basic special treatment (e.g. Racket) you get '(lambda (x y) `(,x unquote y)) 2017-10-28T10:39:23Z GreaseMonkey: oh yeah i'm also writing this interpreter in lua 2017-10-28T10:39:33Z GreaseMonkey: my interpreter will actually handle that special case correctly when printing 2017-10-28T10:40:03Z GreaseMonkey: but of course, all 5 (well, assuming mine supports lambdas, whereas right now it sadly does not) will happily evaluate it to (3 . 4) 2017-10-28T10:40:11Z GreaseMonkey: erm, if you give it x=3 and y=4 2017-10-28T10:49:37Z excelsior joined #scheme 2017-10-28T10:59:34Z GreaseMonkey: ...what the fuck, i just got lambdas working 2017-10-28T10:59:45Z GreaseMonkey: typed some code, expected it to fail... oh wait it was too busy actually working 2017-10-28T10:59:56Z GreaseMonkey: ((lambda (x y) `(,x . ,y)) 3 4) 2017-10-28T10:59:56Z GreaseMonkey: ((3 . 4)) 2017-10-28T11:00:08Z GreaseMonkey: oh right actually that is kinda wrong, but still 2017-10-28T11:01:29Z GreaseMonkey: now it works, returning (3 . 4) 2017-10-28T11:02:03Z GreaseMonkey: next thing to try would be to get (read) working... until then, happy tomorrow and good night 2017-10-28T11:02:57Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 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2017-10-29T02:47:59Z acarrico quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-29T03:00:35Z joecound joined #scheme 2017-10-29T03:21:01Z turtleman quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-29T03:26:47Z ArneBab joined #scheme 2017-10-29T03:31:06Z ArneBab_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-29T03:36:05Z joecound quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-29T03:53:03Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-29T03:54:09Z excelsior quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-29T03:55:12Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-29T04:26:57Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-29T04:30:56Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-29T05:03:06Z GreaseMonkey: what's the most horrible "named let" implementation you've seen in a scheme? 2017-10-29T05:03:25Z GreaseMonkey: i did one in my lua scheme and it hacks a lambda's internal structure to inject another closure in 2017-10-29T05:10:22Z GreaseMonkey: it *is* a small implementation of it though 2017-10-29T05:10:32Z GreaseMonkey: with that said i really should add macro support 2017-10-29T05:19:29Z sleffy quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-29T05:20:02Z aeth: GreaseMonkey: what's your Lua Scheme called? 2017-10-29T05:20:15Z aeth: Coincidentally, I just read this thread which has this post in it. https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/7961z9/are_there_any_new_interesting_lisps_being/dozybcf/ 2017-10-29T05:20:32Z aeth: It's not (afaik) a Scheme so it's a different one 2017-10-29T05:20:48Z GreaseMonkey: i've not properly release it, it's just called shitscm because i'm writing it in a hurry 2017-10-29T05:21:03Z GreaseMonkey: and i have no idea of the quality it's going to have 2017-10-29T05:21:39Z GreaseMonkey: basically, there's a minecraft mod which lets you code in lua... actually there's two, but one sucks and the other one is not called computercraft 2017-10-29T05:21:48Z GreaseMonkey: (opencomputers is the one we're using) 2017-10-29T05:22:23Z GreaseMonkey: to be honest i'd rather code it in lua than attempt to mess with minecraft modding yet again 2017-10-29T05:23:28Z GreaseMonkey: one of those names ring a bell 2017-10-29T05:23:58Z GreaseMonkey: ah yes, SquidDev hangs out in the opencomputers IRC channel (#oc @ espernet) 2017-10-29T05:40:56Z terpri quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-29T05:55:28Z pie_: GreaseMonkey, you also name all your projects shit and asd? 2017-10-29T05:59:43Z GreaseMonkey: pie_: shit sometimes, asd never 2017-10-29T06:00:02Z pie_: ok me too 2017-10-29T06:01:51Z GreaseMonkey: anyhow, having some fun working out how to implement macros 2017-10-29T06:01:55Z GreaseMonkey: these are NOT the hygienic ones 2017-10-29T06:03:19Z pie_: heh heh heh 2017-10-29T06:03:53Z GreaseMonkey: https://gist.github.com/iamgreaser/adc033d021d3cfd3e4ed77983f0cb114 - that's my first decent one 2017-10-29T06:15:28Z GreaseMonkey: cond works well enough that i can implement fizzbuzz in it 2017-10-29T06:16:43Z GreaseMonkey: it's now a built-in under the name (/g/dpt/) - it returns a list 2017-10-29T06:32:20Z pilne quit (Quit: Quitting!) 2017-10-29T06:32:41Z brendyn quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-29T06:58:47Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-29T07:21:29Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Ex Chat) 2017-10-29T07:21:53Z takitus quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-29T07:31:51Z brendyn joined #scheme 2017-10-29T08:36:07Z Murii|osx joined #scheme 2017-10-29T09:04:18Z zaoqi joined #scheme 2017-10-29T09:06:38Z zaoqi implemented a Pure Value Pure Functional Sized Lazy Language 2017-10-29T09:07:59Z wasamasa: zaoqi: so, what's this MAL thing you work on? 2017-10-29T09:08:23Z wasamasa: zaoqi: is it a scheme interpreter, a compiler from scheme to MAL or something entirely else? 2017-10-29T09:09:15Z zaoqi: I implemented a compiler from scheme to MAL to compile that language 2017-10-29T09:09:51Z wasamasa: so it takes scheme code and emits MAL code 2017-10-29T09:10:37Z zaoqi: : https://github.com/zaoqi/zscheme/ 2017-10-29T09:13:58Z lritter joined #scheme 2017-10-29T09:52:41Z 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The links in www.scheme-reports.org/2015/working-group-1.html all seem to 404 2017-10-29T14:55:12Z wasamasa: on my ssd 2017-10-29T14:56:04Z wasamasa: tried https://bitbucket.org/cowan/r7rs-wg1-infra/raw-attachment/wiki/WikiStart/r7rs.pdf yet? 2017-10-29T14:56:10Z sethalves quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-29T14:56:44Z wasamasa: hm, doesn't work, that one 2017-10-29T14:57:23Z ZombieChicken: yeah. That is the one linked on the aforementioned page 2017-10-29T14:57:40Z wasamasa: jcowan only had markdown files in the repository 2017-10-29T15:00:36Z terpri joined #scheme 2017-10-29T15:00:46Z wasamasa: https://web.archive.org/web/20170606034308/http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/raw-attachment/wiki/WikiStart/r7rs.pdf 2017-10-29T15:01:07Z ZombieChicken: ty. One of these days I'll learn to actually use the WBM 2017-10-29T15:02:11Z ZombieChicken: any word on how r7 big is doing? Is it likely you could implement it entirely in r7 small? 2017-10-29T15:02:39Z wasamasa: unlikely 2017-10-29T15:02:45Z wasamasa: one of the dockets is about unportable stuff :P 2017-10-29T15:03:05Z wasamasa: r7rs-large is going on, slowly 2017-10-29T15:03:09Z wasamasa: mostly a one person effort 2017-10-29T15:03:11Z klovett joined #scheme 2017-10-29T15:03:24Z ZombieChicken: That's a shame. Thanks for the help and info. 2017-10-29T15:03:31Z ZombieChicken left #scheme 2017-10-29T15:08:29Z nomicflux joined #scheme 2017-10-29T15:14:10Z nomicflux quit (Quit: nomicflux) 2017-10-29T15:30:38Z sethalves joined #scheme 2017-10-29T15:44:03Z jonaslund_ joined #scheme 2017-10-29T15:46:28Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-29T15:46:41Z jonaslund_ is now known as jonaslund 2017-10-29T16:02:57Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-29T16:11:38Z turtleman quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-29T16:13:04Z jonaslund_ joined #scheme 2017-10-29T16:14:24Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-29T16:14:27Z jonaslund_ is now known as jonaslund 2017-10-29T16:16:11Z Khisanth joined #scheme 2017-10-29T16:27:44Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-29T16:41:24Z nullcone joined #scheme 2017-10-29T16:43:18Z lritter quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-29T16:56:50Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-10-29T17:00:38Z cromachina_ joined #scheme 2017-10-29T17:02:56Z cromachina quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-29T17:03:01Z nomicflux joined #scheme 2017-10-29T17:20:38Z nomicflux quit (Quit: nomicflux) 2017-10-29T17:32:02Z daviid joined #scheme 2017-10-29T17:32:51Z nomicflux joined #scheme 2017-10-29T17:36:26Z nckx quit (Quit: Restarting my GuixSD server — https://gnu.org/s/guix) 2017-10-29T17:37:49Z nckx joined #scheme 2017-10-29T17:38:55Z nomicflux quit (Quit: nomicflux) 2017-10-29T17:49:38Z joecound joined #scheme 2017-10-29T17:56:11Z muelleme joined #scheme 2017-10-29T18:03:57Z joecound quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-29T18:06:09Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-10-29T18:09:00Z joecound joined #scheme 2017-10-29T18:29:23Z joecound quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-29T18:31:36Z alezost joined #scheme 2017-10-29T19:16:41Z pie_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-29T19:23:15Z takitus joined #scheme 2017-10-29T19:27:38Z jao joined #scheme 2017-10-29T19:39:41Z klovett quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-29T19:40:18Z klovett joined #scheme 2017-10-29T19:43:29Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-29T19:52:32Z LeoNerd: wr 2017-10-29T19:52:38Z LeoNerd removes cat 2017-10-29T19:58:27Z jcob joined #scheme 2017-10-29T19:59:58Z jcob quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-29T20:00:47Z jcob joined #scheme 2017-10-29T20:01:22Z jcob: Is `the little schemer` available for free online anywhere? 2017-10-29T20:04:38Z C-Keen: not legally 2017-10-29T20:05:02Z C-Keen: otherwise libgen.io might have a copy 2017-10-29T20:07:16Z acarrico joined #scheme 2017-10-29T20:08:43Z pjb joined #scheme 2017-10-29T20:20:43Z jcob: stupid book authors trying to make a profit so they can sustain themselves >:( arghh 2017-10-29T20:22:17Z wasamasa: lol 2017-10-29T20:22:36Z wasamasa: how are they any different from programmers writing software for questionable companies to sustain themselves? 2017-10-29T20:22:56Z wasamasa: oh right, writing books is somewhat more acceptable :P 2017-10-29T20:23:43Z jcob: Im complaining but all I gotta do is walk to the library. 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I think you can also call if and cond special forms, but you can make one the 'special' one and the other one a macro in terms of it i think? 2017-10-30T00:23:13Z ajp: yep, you can make “if” a special form and make “cond” a macro in terms of “if” 2017-10-30T00:24:54Z aeth: lambda is listed as "syntax" on page 13 of r7rs.pdf 2017-10-30T00:25:19Z ajp: strange, lambda is listed as a special form in the gnu/mit scheme manual 2017-10-30T00:25:39Z ajp: although i guess “syntax” counts as special forms 2017-10-30T00:28:57Z aeth: I guess it covers both macros and special forms 2017-10-30T00:29:54Z aeth: ah, "primitive expression types" is the term used for forms like "lambda" in r7rs.pdf, as opposed to "derived expression types" 2017-10-30T00:31:12Z ajp: aha, makes sense. thanks for clearing that up aeth :) i was thinking it was left up to the implementation for a moment there. 2017-10-30T00:32:24Z cemerick_ joined #scheme 2017-10-30T00:35:23Z ajp: now i’m curious about “lazy library syntax” and “lazy library procedure”. i’ve never gone through r7rs before, and i’m wondering how those would be implemented 2017-10-30T00:57:47Z cemerick_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-30T01:00:32Z muelleme joined #scheme 2017-10-30T01:00:55Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-10-30T01:05:37Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-30T01:08:41Z acarrico quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-30T01:08:49Z jcowan: ajp: It *is* left up to the implementation. In principle, if can be defined in terms of cond, although the other way around is more usual. 2017-10-30T01:09:21Z ajp: jcowan: i see, thanks 2017-10-30T01:09:42Z jcowan: Because there is no portable way to get access to the macroexpanded form of source code, an implementation can do whatever it wants. 2017-10-30T01:10:44Z jcowan: ajp: "lazy library procedure" means a procedure that belongs to the (scheme lazy) library. 2017-10-30T01:11:05Z jcowan: similarly with lazy library syntax, inexact library procedure, etc. etc. 2017-10-30T01:12:01Z jcowan: lambda is just marked "syntax" because it belongs to the (scheme base) library, and "base library syntax" seemed verbose 2017-10-30T01:15:31Z acarrico joined #scheme 2017-10-30T01:15:47Z ajp: jcowan: oh! i didn’t realize that “syntax” denoted a package. thanks for clarifying 2017-10-30T01:16:13Z jcowan: no, "syntax" denotes a macro or special form 2017-10-30T01:16:31Z jcowan: "library" denotes a package, as that is the term we use in R7RS. 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#scheme 2017-10-31T07:33:43Z manumanumanu: What's up with the wg2 dockets website? 2017-10-31T07:39:49Z wasamasa: I'm sure jcowan_ can explain 2017-10-31T07:39:54Z takitus is now known as takitus|afk 2017-10-31T07:53:04Z parsnip joined #scheme 2017-10-31T07:58:06Z shiyaz joined #scheme 2017-10-31T08:01:28Z murii joined #scheme 2017-10-31T08:11:17Z MrBismuth joined #scheme 2017-10-31T08:14:11Z MrBusiness quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-31T08:32:35Z muelleme joined #scheme 2017-10-31T09:02:53Z mauritslamers joined #scheme 2017-10-31T09:14:07Z honix joined #scheme 2017-10-31T09:22:59Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-31T09:25:37Z mauritslamers: hey all, I have a question regarding sorting of a list. I have a list of assoc lists. Every element in this list has a type 'property' and also a moment property, which describes a kind of time stamp. 2017-10-31T09:25:59Z mauritslamers: elements can have the same time stamp, and currently the list is already sorted by time stamp 2017-10-31T09:27:00Z mauritslamers: I want to change the sorting slightly so that everything is still sorted by time stamp, but if a set of assoc lists have the same time stamp, those with a type value called 'break need to be the first of those with the same time stamp 2017-10-31T09:27:58Z mauritslamers: I am using Guile 1.8.7 (yes, old but sadly no alternative) and I have been trying to write a function for use with sort-list, but for some reason it doesn't work properly. 2017-10-31T09:30:12Z mauritslamers: code is in http://paste.lisp.org/display/359921 2017-10-31T09:33:56Z pjb: mauritslamers: your order function is wrong. 2017-10-31T09:34:10Z pjb: mauritslamers: (foo 42) < (break 42) ? 2017-10-31T09:34:59Z pjb: You want (foo 42) > (break 42). When xnum=ynum, the function cannot be symetric! 2017-10-31T09:35:38Z mauritslamers: I was already wondering how the function would deal with this... 2017-10-31T09:35:58Z mauritslamers: My background is JS, and in the sort function there you either return -1, 0 or 1 2017-10-31T09:36:05Z mauritslamers: as in smaller, the same or higher 2017-10-31T09:36:14Z mauritslamers: probably a different kind of sort 2017-10-31T09:36:26Z mauritslamers: I have been trying to find examples using sort-list, but couldn't find any 2017-10-31T09:36:42Z mauritslamers: just examples on how to implement your own sorting algorithm in scheme :) 2017-10-31T09:37:12Z pjb: you can use a comparison function: (define (lessp-from-compare compare) (lambda (x y) (/= 1 (compare x y)))) 2017-10-31T09:38:13Z pjb: Now, in terms of performance, if your list is long, since it's already sorted, it may be a better idea to split it first, sort the chunks, and paste them back. Perhaps. 2017-10-31T09:40:59Z mauritslamers: what I don't really understand is how the return value of that lessp function is used in the sorting... because how do you indicate that things are actually the same? 2017-10-31T09:41:43Z pjb: (sort-list! events (lessp-from-compare (lambda (x y) … 1, 0 or -1))) 2017-10-31T09:42:27Z mauritslamers: ah, so it does work the same! 2017-10-31T09:42:30Z pjb: lessp-from-compare is a high order function that transforms a function into a function. 2017-10-31T09:43:04Z pjb: So a function that returns 1 0 or -1 can be mapped to a function returning true when it's 0 or -1, or false when it's 1. 2017-10-31T09:43:49Z pjb: or perhaps it should be (lambda (x y) (< (compare x y) 0)) (true when -1 and false when 0 or 1), and written like this it should be even clearer. 2017-10-31T09:54:17Z [X-Scale] joined #scheme 2017-10-31T09:55:11Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-31T09:55:12Z [X-Scale] is now known as X-Scale 2017-10-31T09:55:43Z Kkiro quit 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seconds) 2017-10-31T17:10:17Z Menche joined #scheme 2017-10-31T17:13:01Z daviid joined #scheme 2017-10-31T17:18:35Z wasamasa is now known as spookywasa 2017-10-31T17:19:10Z akkad: is the begin needed? or does let implicitly do a begin? (if (bool) (begin (let ((...)...))) (begin (let ((...)...)))) 2017-10-31T17:19:55Z spookywasa: that let looks erroneous 2017-10-31T17:20:27Z spookywasa: if it's about the initialization order of bindings, let* guarantees the same behavior as begin 2017-10-31T17:20:42Z Menche quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-31T17:20:52Z akkad: well I'm asking if begin is redundant 2017-10-31T17:21:10Z Menche joined #scheme 2017-10-31T17:22:18Z akkad: if let blocks can be used to handle t/f path's fromt he (if ...) 2017-10-31T17:22:38Z spookywasa: begin serves two purposes, grouping a set of expressions and sequencing 2017-10-31T17:22:48Z akkad: right. 2017-10-31T17:22:54Z C-Keen is now known as CorpseKeen 2017-10-31T17:23:11Z akkad: I'm using it to group the steps unique to the two paths based on the (if) 2017-10-31T17:24:01Z akkad: what I am asking is if (if (bool) (let ((foo (something))) ...) (let ((foo (something-else))) ...)) 2017-10-31T17:24:13Z akkad: works the same was as the aforementioned example using begin 2017-10-31T17:24:55Z gwatt: If your body of the if-branch is a single let, you can drop the begin. 2017-10-31T17:25:11Z akkad: two lets 2017-10-31T17:25:25Z akkad: e.g. in CL a let has an implicit progn 2017-10-31T17:25:27Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-31T17:25:41Z gwatt: yes, let and lambda both have implicit begins 2017-10-31T17:26:01Z spookywasa: let consists of bindings and body, the latter being defined as one or more expressions 2017-10-31T17:26:05Z akkad: ok so (if (bool) (let form a) (let form b)) would work? 2017-10-31T17:26:09Z gwatt: yep 2017-10-31T17:26:13Z akkad: thanks. 2017-10-31T17:26:24Z akkad: felt the (begin (let pattern seemed redundant 2017-10-31T17:27:15Z akkad: I should be using more lambdas. thanks 2017-10-31T17:31:05Z lambda-11235 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-31T17:31:06Z muelleme joined #scheme 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