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Just lurking for a bit. 2015-03-26T05:59:37Z fugue left #scheme 2015-03-26T06:00:33Z adu quit (Quit: adu) 2015-03-26T06:01:47Z FriarMauvais: (reading The Scheme Programming Language, wondering if there are any good repos to examine for goony stuff like irc clients, nes emulators, et c) 2015-03-26T06:05:02Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-26T06:22:04Z aeth: try these two links: https://github.com/trending?l=scheme https://github.com/trending?l=racket 2015-03-26T06:22:30Z aeth: maybe change the time interval to monthly 2015-03-26T06:22:44Z aeth: Github used to have better ways to explore by language iirc 2015-03-26T06:25:33Z FriarMauvais: thanm you eversomuch kind human 2015-03-26T06:25:39Z FriarMauvais: *thank 2015-03-26T06:26:13Z FriarMauvais: I was wondering if I had to search by dialect 2015-03-26T06:27:14Z FriarMauvais: and so it is. Racket is used for goony stuff, what exactly are chicken and gambit designed for, if you wouldn't mind? 2015-03-26T06:34:18Z oleo_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-26T06:44:29Z frkout joined #scheme 2015-03-26T06:45:59Z bjz joined #scheme 2015-03-26T06:57:06Z FriarMauvais quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-26T07:04:27Z wasamasa: compiling to C 2015-03-26T07:04:56Z wasamasa: which is pretty nice for portable, self-contained executables 2015-03-26T07:09:25Z excelsior quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-26T07:09:43Z excelsior joined #scheme 2015-03-26T07:10:02Z blivande quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-26T07:13:40Z technomancy: "goony stuff"? 2015-03-26T07:13:54Z wasamasa: I guess real-world software 2015-03-26T07:17:32Z uber_hulk_ joined #scheme 2015-03-26T07:19:54Z itissid1 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-26T07:22:52Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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meaning for me ;-) 2015-03-26T14:13:26Z vanila: haha thats a good start 2015-03-26T14:14:51Z kephra: so on error you get much more output: an Error message, state of the byte code interpreter, state of the environment at last op, and finally a javascript stacktrace 2015-03-26T14:15:57Z kephra: a Smalltalk like inspector might be nice in future 2015-03-26T14:16:20Z kephra: currently its a big bad alert with lots of JSON and S-Expressions 2015-03-26T14:23:00Z oleo joined #scheme 2015-03-26T14:23:52Z ecthiender quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-26T14:25:17Z vraid joined #scheme 2015-03-26T14:29:54Z narendraj9 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-26T14:33:43Z Kooda joined #scheme 2015-03-26T14:36:29Z ski_ is now known as ski 2015-03-26T14:52:01Z vishesh quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-26T14:56:43Z turtleman_ joined #scheme 2015-03-26T15:00:14Z ArneBab quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-26T15:05:15Z blivande joined #scheme 2015-03-26T15:05:27Z narendraj9 joined #scheme 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You will have to do it yourself. 2015-03-26T19:32:54Z pjb: turtleman_: also, if it's not to late, that's definitely something to be included in a programming language, a POSIX API definition. 2015-03-26T19:32:56Z turtleman_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-26T19:36:02Z alezost quit (Quit: I use GNU Guix ) 2015-03-26T19:39:13Z alezost joined #scheme 2015-03-26T19:45:55Z hiroaki joined #scheme 2015-03-26T19:45:58Z hiroakip joined #scheme 2015-03-26T19:49:08Z amgarching quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-26T19:50:30Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2015-03-26T19:51:00Z ilammy_ joined #scheme 2015-03-26T19:55:01Z leif joined #scheme 2015-03-26T19:58:08Z amgarching joined #scheme 2015-03-26T20:07:38Z vraid joined #scheme 2015-03-26T20:15:03Z hiyosi joined #scheme 2015-03-26T20:18:07Z civodul joined #scheme 2015-03-26T20:18:08Z badkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-26T20:22:01Z luiscr quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-26T20:22:35Z taylanub quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-26T20:23:24Z vishesh joined #scheme 2015-03-26T20:23:27Z taylanub joined #scheme 2015-03-26T20:25:28Z itissid quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-26T20:26:57Z luiscr joined #scheme 2015-03-26T20:31:49Z amgarching quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2015-03-26T20:33:25Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2015-03-26T20:33:44Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-26T20:34:58Z ziocroc joined #scheme 2015-03-26T20:36:37Z itissid1 joined #scheme 2015-03-26T20:43:09Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-26T20:48:55Z badkins joined #scheme 2015-03-26T20:51:19Z amgarching joined #scheme 2015-03-26T20:52:13Z hiroakip joined #scheme 2015-03-26T20:52:14Z hiroaki joined #scheme 2015-03-26T20:53:21Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-26T21:02:13Z pnkfelix joined #scheme 2015-03-26T21:06:27Z ArneBab joined #scheme 2015-03-26T21:07:20Z solrize quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-26T21:07:33Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2015-03-26T21:11:38Z alezost quit (Quit: I use GNU Guix ) 2015-03-26T21:42:19Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…) 2015-03-28T10:00:00Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-28T10:02:36Z visualshock joined #scheme 2015-03-28T10:04:51Z {[]}grant quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-28T10:11:24Z uber_hulk quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-03-28T10:12:04Z visualshock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-28T10:22:52Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-28T10:23:16Z ASau` is now known as ASau 2015-03-28T10:30:45Z alexei quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-28T10:41:50Z cmatei_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-28T10:43:51Z cmatei joined #scheme 2015-03-28T10:46:51Z sdothum joined #scheme 2015-03-28T10:47:46Z robot-be` quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-03-28T10:52:14Z larion quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-28T10:54:12Z alexei joined #scheme 2015-03-28T10:57:50Z ijp quit (Quit: brb writing War and Peace and Zombies) 2015-03-28T11:04:16Z vanila joined #scheme 2015-03-28T11:04:18Z vanila: hi 2015-03-28T11:04:35Z kephra: moin vanila - just thought about you ;-) 2015-03-28T11:04:39Z vanila: good morning! :) 2015-03-28T11:04:58Z kephra: open-output-file and related works now 2015-03-28T11:05:33Z kephra: the file is written (http PUT) on close-output-port 2015-03-28T11:06:03Z kephra: *blush* the server side is PHP ;-( 2015-03-28T11:07:30Z vanila: ooh so it can actually save data now! 2015-03-28T11:07:40Z kephra: yeah! 2015-03-28T11:08:35Z kephra: I consider a lightweight pathname translation: (mount-uri-scheme scheme method prefix . options) 2015-03-28T11:09:27Z kephra: e.g. (mount-uri-scheme a get "files/") (mount-uri-scheme a put "upload.php/") 2015-03-28T11:10:04Z kephra: to use (open-*-file "a:filename.extension") and get and put are mapped to different URIs 2015-03-28T11:10:39Z Isp-sec joined #scheme 2015-03-28T11:13:37Z kephra: and I think about a 3rd POST: (let ((port (open-query "db:storedprocedure"))) (write-query-to port) (send-query port) (read-results-from port) (close-input-port)) 2015-03-28T11:17:20Z vanila: what is the query? 2015-03-28T11:19:20Z vraid quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-28T11:22:48Z kephra: the current goal of my scheme look like is an EMACS for database applications 2015-03-28T11:24:05Z kephra: a query will behave like a open-output-file for creating the body, behaves like an input-port after (send-query) 2015-03-28T11:24:35Z kephra: the backend will read and produce s-expressions, to make it easy for the scheme 2015-03-28T11:27:05Z kephra: the above db query would need something like (mount-uri-scheme db post "database-server.php/") before using the "db:name-of-procedure" urls 2015-03-28T11:29:24Z alexei quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-28T11:36:48Z edgar-rft joined #scheme 2015-03-28T11:39:10Z DrPete joined #scheme 2015-03-28T11:39:18Z DrPete is now known as Guest60086 2015-03-28T11:40:37Z DrPete__ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-28T11:43:44Z uber_hulk joined #scheme 2015-03-28T11:45:55Z alezost joined #scheme 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I'm unable to find documentation on it. 2015-03-29T19:14:22Z wingo joined #scheme 2015-03-29T19:14:53Z ijp: where? 2015-03-29T19:15:24Z ijp: no idea where you are getting it, but by analogy with haskell, I'd assume it worked like letrec 2015-03-29T19:16:50Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-03-29T19:18:21Z Tbone139: was used here, and letrec doesn't seem to behave the same way unless I'm using it wrong https://bartriemens.wordpress.com/2010/08/22/project-eulerproblem-1-solved-with-scheme/ 2015-03-29T19:18:26Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/nuwf873 2015-03-29T19:18:56Z Riastradh: It's defined right there. 2015-03-29T19:18:57Z ijp: Tbone139: they define 'where' in that file 2015-03-29T19:19:47Z ijp: and it just seems to be the usual filter function, but with weird names for everything 2015-03-29T19:19:50Z Tbone139: blast it all! 2015-03-29T19:20:07Z ijp: well, filter, but flipped 2015-03-29T19:20:31Z taylanub: even the comment says "filter function", so why not just call it filter? -_- 2015-03-29T19:20:59Z taylanub: ijp: flipped? 2015-03-29T19:21:04Z Tbone139: using 'where' by itself, without loading that file put me in an 'environment inspector' 2015-03-29T19:21:26Z taylanub: oh, argument order changed 2015-03-29T19:21:46Z taylanub: Tbone139: probably because it's an unbound variable and thus throws an error 2015-03-29T19:22:12Z taylanub: (which puts you in some debug mode, which would be useful if it were a more complicated error situation) 2015-03-29T19:22:15Z Riastradh: In MIT Scheme, WHERE enters the environment inspector. 2015-03-29T19:22:23Z taylanub: oh, hah 2015-03-29T19:22:56Z Tbone139: that answers that, thanks! 2015-03-29T19:31:31Z sheilong joined #scheme 2015-03-29T19:31:36Z wasamasa: fascinating 2015-03-29T19:31:37Z {[]}grant quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-29T19:31:51Z {0}grant joined #scheme 2015-03-29T19:33:37Z wasamasa: this reads like someone wanted to write with scheme syntax 2015-03-29T19:43:23Z uber_hulk joined #scheme 2015-03-29T19:46:11Z daviid`` joined #scheme 2015-03-29T19:46:57Z soreil joined #scheme 2015-03-29T19:48:06Z daviid` quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-29T19:49:48Z kephra: I have to agree - this code looks odd. It would be much better without the ALIASES 2015-03-29T19:50:35Z kephra: (define combine cons) ; <- w-hat? 2015-03-29T19:53:42Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-29T19:54:22Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2015-03-29T19:54:22Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2015-03-29T19:54:22Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2015-03-29T19:54:48Z excelsior quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2015-03-29T19:55:40Z ziocroc joined #scheme 2015-03-29T19:59:15Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-29T19:59:18Z ijp: wasamasa: yeah, was it bash that was originally written as "pascal-like" C with lots of preprocessor macros 2015-03-29T20:00:09Z wasamasa: ijp: I think it was the bourne shell (as opposed to the bourne again shell), but yes, it had that case of macro abuse 2015-03-29T20:00:38Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2015-03-29T20:00:38Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2015-03-29T20:00:38Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2015-03-29T20:03:04Z ijp: yeah, seems to be the bourne shell 2015-03-29T20:04:43Z ijp: I found one for lolcode at https://web.archive.org/web/20130113075603/http://lolcode.com/contributions/lolcode_h 2015-03-29T20:04:43Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/p7397nc 2015-03-29T20:05:49Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-29T20:06:35Z Guest86031: jeepers. http://research.swtch.com/shmacro 2015-03-29T20:08:18Z vanila joined #scheme 2015-03-29T20:08:27Z Kooda joined #scheme 2015-03-29T20:15:34Z alezost quit (Quit: I use GNU Guix ) 2015-03-29T20:16:18Z ef5c_ef5c joined #scheme 2015-03-29T20:16:38Z kephra: ijp, I hoped of a full featured lolcode implementation for racket 😃 2015-03-29T20:18:46Z ijp: kephra: I was going to implement lolcode, but the reference implementation kept segfaulting 2015-03-29T20:18:53Z ijp: so you know, fuck that 2015-03-29T20:20:00Z kephra: thats what I most like at racket, coming from forth with the habit to implement DSLs (because 4th itself is unreadble, you start with words and work towards a readable code) 2015-03-29T20:20:03Z fds: Can't you just implement it directly from the specification? :-P 2015-03-29T20:21:20Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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2015-03-30T14:44:37Z redeemed quit (Quit: q) 2015-03-30T14:45:16Z ziocroc quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-30T14:46:39Z ziocroc joined #scheme 2015-03-30T14:53:57Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-30T14:57:50Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2015-03-30T14:57:50Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2015-03-30T14:57:50Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2015-03-30T15:00:02Z soreil joined #scheme 2015-03-30T15:02:09Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-30T15:10:35Z bb010g joined #scheme 2015-03-30T15:12:11Z narendraj9 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-30T15:12:47Z ziocroc quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-30T15:22:21Z ee_cc joined #scheme 2015-03-30T15:22:51Z ggVGc joined #scheme 2015-03-30T15:23:24Z ggVGc: Can someone name a scheme dialect that compiles to javascript and is fairly maintained/stable 2015-03-30T15:25:00Z z0d: I pass 2015-03-30T15:25:43Z wasamasa suspects all candidates are just proof of concepts 2015-03-30T15:26:04Z turtleman_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-30T15:26:09Z tsumetai`: I don't think you can compile it but: www.biwascheme.org 2015-03-30T15:26:11Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2015-03-30T15:26:57Z LeoNerd: Turning Scheme into most other languages is nontrivial because generally few have nice support for tail-calling 2015-03-30T15:27:13Z LeoNerd: So you end up having to do things like turning your entire program into a monsterous while loop that doesn't read as well 2015-03-30T15:27:29Z wasamasa: soon there will be TCO in js 2015-03-30T15:27:36Z gnomon: Sooooooon 2015-03-30T15:27:38Z wasamasa: maybe ruby, too 2015-03-30T15:27:42Z wasamasa: or even elisp! 2015-03-30T15:27:52Z nee quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-30T15:28:01Z wasamasa: I've seen a comment about a bytecode handler intended to be used for that very purpose 2015-03-30T15:28:25Z wasamasa: ggVGc: here's an outdated table: http://ceaude.twoticketsplease.de/js-lisps.html 2015-03-30T15:29:24Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-30T15:31:20Z tsumetai`: :o 2015-03-30T15:31:24Z ggVGc: wasamasa: thanks 2015-03-30T15:31:44Z ggVGc: hahaha, damn 2015-03-30T15:31:49Z ggVGc: that's a decent list 2015-03-30T15:31:55Z wasamasa: another one I'd try would be the 250+ list by the coffeescript folks of languages compiling to JS 2015-03-30T15:32:14Z wasamasa: which could yield a few more to evaluate (no pun intended) 2015-03-30T15:32:44Z wasamasa: https://github.com/jashkenas/coffeescript/wiki/List-of-languages-that-compile-to-JS 2015-03-30T15:32:44Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/mnkfnfc 2015-03-30T15:33:32Z sethalves quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-30T15:33:40Z ggVGc: wasamasa: yeah, I've been down the coffeescript path, and come to the comclusion that none of them compile to human enough output and also I'd prefer to work in a lisp for once 2015-03-30T15:34:25Z wasamasa: ggVGc: so, the most promising looking one would be https://github.com/Gozala/wisp 2015-03-30T15:34:43Z wasamasa: ggVGc: though, it looks more clojure-like 2015-03-30T15:34:46Z ijp quit (Quit: brb founding new religion) 2015-03-30T15:35:00Z wasamasa: and if you want clojure-like, clojurescript would be a better idea, no :P 2015-03-30T15:35:09Z ggVGc: wasamasa: my use case is a bit weird. I make small interactive demos in JS for work, and I'm so sick of it. So to spice it up, I'd like to create them in something more fun/terse but the output still needs to be readable and modifiable by others 2015-03-30T15:35:18Z ggVGc: wasamasa: yeah, I was looking at wisp. Thanks 2015-03-30T15:35:20Z ggVGc: will try it 2015-03-30T15:40:39Z soreil quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-30T15:40:44Z psy_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-30T15:41:55Z wasamasa feels a bit bad for recommending a clojure-like on #scheme 2015-03-30T15:42:24Z narendraj9 joined #scheme 2015-03-30T15:45:39Z psy_ joined #scheme 2015-03-30T15:50:02Z rszeno joined #scheme 2015-03-30T15:51:33Z ggVGc: wasamasa: yeah, wisp seems mature enough and runs well, and the output is nice. Will stick to it for now, thanks! 2015-03-30T15:51:52Z wasamasa: ggVGc: you're welcome 2015-03-30T15:53:25Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-30T15:53:53Z narendraj9 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-30T15:54:21Z add^__ joined #scheme 2015-03-30T15:54:30Z ijp joined #scheme 2015-03-30T15:55:23Z add^__ is now known as add^_ 2015-03-30T15:55:32Z narendraj9 joined #scheme 2015-03-30T15:58:05Z khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth 2015-03-30T15:59:28Z vdamewood joined #scheme 2015-03-30T16:01:52Z ecthiender joined #scheme 2015-03-30T16:03:43Z sethalves joined #scheme 2015-03-30T16:05:36Z cdidd quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-30T16:05:49Z soreil joined #scheme 2015-03-30T16:05:59Z Kooda quit (Quit: Squee!) 2015-03-30T16:07:30Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-03-30T16:11:16Z larion joined #scheme 2015-03-30T16:13:12Z ee_cc quit (Quit: ee_cc) 2015-03-30T16:20:12Z cdidd joined #scheme 2015-03-30T16:22:13Z msgodf quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2015-03-30T16:24:27Z turtleman_ joined #scheme 2015-03-30T16:32:38Z vdamewood quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) 2015-03-30T16:35:49Z aking joined #scheme 2015-03-30T16:44:02Z turtleman_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-30T16:49:42Z bars0 joined #scheme 2015-03-30T16:50:25Z matthewhill joined #scheme 2015-03-30T16:50:39Z matthewhill quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-30T16:50:57Z zadock joined #scheme 2015-03-30T16:51:54Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-30T16:52:26Z badkins joined #scheme 2015-03-30T16:52:44Z uris77 joined #scheme 2015-03-30T16:54:46Z ecthiender quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-30T16:57:25Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-30T17:03:45Z badkins_ joined #scheme 2015-03-30T17:03:54Z leppie joined #scheme 2015-03-30T17:06:41Z ecthiender joined #scheme 2015-03-30T17:07:22Z sheilong joined #scheme 2015-03-30T17:07:26Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-30T17:11:49Z blivande quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-30T17:18:41Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2015-03-30T17:22:22Z larion quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-30T17:23:56Z larion joined #scheme 2015-03-30T17:25:21Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-30T17:26:57Z gravicappa joined #scheme 2015-03-30T17:31:46Z kongtomorrow joined #scheme 2015-03-30T17:33:03Z pnkfelix quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.92.1) 2015-03-30T17:35:26Z uris77 quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-03-30T17:38:02Z jao joined #scheme 2015-03-30T17:40:43Z developernotes quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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I'm pretty new too. 2015-03-31T03:26:43Z RexButler_: Question: Can an expression in a let be defined in terms of a previous item in a let expression? 2015-03-31T03:27:04Z Tbone139: If you use let* with the asterisk it can 2015-03-31T03:27:24Z RexButler_: ok thanks 2015-03-31T03:27:33Z Tbone139: sure thing! 2015-03-31T03:28:32Z RexButler_: And can let define functions or just constants? 2015-03-31T03:28:55Z RexButler_: I'm just new to the syntax 2015-03-31T03:29:27Z Tbone139: functions it can! You'd do something like (let ((func (lambda(x) (things x))) ... 2015-03-31T03:31:52Z Tbone139: Oh, (let (((func x) (things x))) ... might be easier to use 2015-03-31T03:31:54Z RexButler_: But not (let ((average x) (/ x 2))) ... 2015-03-31T03:31:57Z RexButler_: ? 2015-03-31T03:31:59Z RexButler_: Yeah 2015-03-31T03:33:21Z RexButler_: Haha... Doing scheme using VIM... 2015-03-31T03:33:25Z RexButler_: Feeling old school 2015-03-31T03:33:28Z RexButler_: On linux 2015-03-31T03:33:37Z RexButler_: At least old school for me 2015-03-31T03:35:50Z Tbone139: I have been using mit-scheme in a terminal window, but recently started favoring DrRacket 2015-03-31T03:36:42Z RexButler_: I prefer a plain text editor, except for an indentor 2015-03-31T03:36:51Z RexButler_: I need to find a scheme indentor for VIM 2015-03-31T03:38:27Z RexButler_: Using Racket myself with compatibility mode 2015-03-31T03:41:23Z Tbone139: unrelatedly, just completed a (find-first proc) procedure that efficiently hashes its way to the lowest instance of x that satisfies (proc x) 2015-03-31T03:46:25Z ecthiender joined #scheme 2015-03-31T03:47:27Z soreil quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-31T03:49:27Z larion joined #scheme 2015-03-31T03:52:43Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2015-03-31T03:57:31Z sdothum quit (Quit: ZNC - 1.6.0 - http://znc.in) 2015-03-31T03:58:03Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-31T03:58:55Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-31T04:09:36Z cmatei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-31T04:13:55Z xyh joined #scheme 2015-03-31T04:17:23Z {[]}grant joined #scheme 2015-03-31T04:17:41Z larion quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-31T04:35:32Z zacts quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-03-31T04:37:38Z theseb joined #scheme 2015-03-31T04:40:56Z wilfredh quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-31T04:41:04Z RexButler_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-31T04:44:03Z wilfredh joined #scheme 2015-03-31T04:50:40Z larion joined #scheme 2015-03-31T04:52:48Z sheilong quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-03-31T04:56:34Z zacts joined #scheme 2015-03-31T05:04:35Z oleo_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-31T05:05:52Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-31T05:38:03Z frkout quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-31T05:41:31Z frkout joined #scheme 2015-03-31T05:41:39Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-31T05:44:29Z hiroakip joined #scheme 2015-03-31T05:44:46Z hiroaki joined #scheme 2015-03-31T05:56:57Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-31T05:57:10Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-31T06:00:56Z ggVGc left #scheme 2015-03-31T06:11:28Z hiroakip joined #scheme 2015-03-31T06:11:37Z hiroaki joined #scheme 2015-03-31T06:13:06Z aap_ is now known as aap 2015-03-31T06:23:00Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-31T06:24:46Z disciple joined #scheme 2015-03-31T06:26:15Z cdidd joined #scheme 2015-03-31T06:27:29Z mrowe is now known as mrowe_away 2015-03-31T06:33:21Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-31T06:33:25Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-31T06:34:29Z larion quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-31T06:36:43Z ee_cc joined #scheme 2015-03-31T06:42:08Z kongtomorrow joined #scheme 2015-03-31T06:51:11Z larion joined #scheme 2015-03-31T06:55:28Z Sgeo joined #scheme 2015-03-31T06:58:29Z Sgeo_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2015-03-31T07:01:22Z zadock joined #scheme 2015-03-31T07:09:53Z tstc quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-31T07:10:16Z xyh quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-31T07:11:29Z larion quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-31T07:11:52Z tstc joined #scheme 2015-03-31T07:16:32Z msgodf joined #scheme 2015-03-31T07:19:38Z przl joined #scheme 2015-03-31T07:21:25Z uber_hulk quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-03-31T07:37:08Z disciple quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-31T07:37:12Z ee_cc quit (Quit: ee_cc) 2015-03-31T07:37:19Z kephra needs some help to implement lexical binding in the right way 2015-03-31T07:38:46Z kephra: lets explain, how I implement environment binding currently (and why I think its wrong): 2015-03-31T07:39:57Z kephra: the environment is a hash object symbol->value 2015-03-31T07:40:48Z taylanub: kephra: lexical scopes should allocate unique objects and not use symbols. you may attach the symbol to it for debugging purposes. 2015-03-31T07:42:43Z kephra: what I currently have is some dynamic scoping, where a new environment is a layer on top of an old environment (in javascript: var ne = Object.create(this.e) 2015-03-31T07:43:24Z kephra: this works well for let - but creates a big problem for lambda, as my lambda currently knows the complete environment it was created 2015-03-31T07:44:01Z kephra: so none of them will ever be freed, even if only small part might be used later 2015-03-31T07:45:14Z kephra: the question is, if there is any good text explaining how lexical scoping is normally implemented in a non functional language 2015-03-31T07:45:31Z kephra: (implementation language is non functional, e.g. C) 2015-03-31T07:46:06Z ovenpasta joined #scheme 2015-03-31T07:47:56Z frkout quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-31T07:48:22Z frkout joined #scheme 2015-03-31T07:48:44Z kephra: does lambda scan its body to check what symbols->value it needs to remember for the closure? 2015-03-31T07:48:53Z kephra: so is lambda O(N)? 2015-03-31T07:49:42Z ecraven: now where's that article that explains that C is purely functional... 2015-03-31T07:50:12Z kephra: or is there some (invisible) step done during reader macro helping lambda to be O(1) 2015-03-31T07:52:36Z taylanub: kephra: no body scanning. save the parameters in the procedure object, expand the environment with them whenever applying the procedure. 2015-03-31T07:57:00Z kephra: (let ((a 1) (b 2)) (lambda (c) (+ a c))) 2015-03-31T07:57:25Z kephra: the question is, how does lambda know, that it only needs to remember a not b 2015-03-31T07:58:24Z ee_cc joined #scheme 2015-03-31T07:59:22Z kongtomorrow: kephra: that's quite implementation dependent, in most schemes I'd think b _does_ stay alive there 2015-03-31T08:01:47Z wingo joined #scheme 2015-03-31T08:02:42Z kephra: kongtomorrow, I cant think so - because this would be the equivalent of a memory leak 2015-03-31T08:03:49Z kongtomorrow: it's only a leak if the programmer doesn't expect it and program with that in mind 2015-03-31T08:07:18Z rpaehlig joined #scheme 2015-03-31T08:08:26Z rpaehlig quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-31T08:08:51Z ee_cc quit (Quit: ee_cc) 2015-03-31T08:09:37Z rpaehlig joined #scheme 2015-03-31T08:10:54Z vishesh quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-31T08:18:12Z taylanub: kephra: http://sprunge.us/aBLS this is pretty much lambda calculus, implementing lexical scope. ("mc" stands for "metacircular") 2015-03-31T08:20:11Z taylanub: (it's super minimal, taking one body form per lambda only, allowing the binding of any object to a value, not just symbols, etc., but you get the logic) 2015-03-31T08:22:33Z nee joined #scheme 2015-03-31T08:27:11Z wasamasa: old mctayla had a farm 2015-03-31T08:28:14Z ee_cc joined #scheme 2015-03-31T08:28:20Z taylanub: it's Taylan ... 2015-03-31T08:33:57Z larion joined #scheme 2015-03-31T08:37:40Z redeemed joined #scheme 2015-03-31T08:37:56Z kephra: taylanub, its hardly possible to guess what it does, because of missing semantics (what are the modules doing, starting with define-record-type) - but it looks, as if a lambda encloses the complete enviromenent in this case also 2015-03-31T08:38:09Z kephra: ((lambda args body) (make-proc env args body)) 2015-03-31T08:38:59Z kephra: so it will run in same problem as my implementation, that a "(let ((a 1) (b 2)) (lambda (c) (+ a c)))" will be a memory leak for b 2015-03-31T08:39:39Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2015-03-31T08:39:39Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2015-03-31T08:39:39Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2015-03-31T08:44:49Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-31T08:45:39Z leppie quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-31T08:47:44Z taylanub: kephra: you should really learn SRFI-9 and 'match' :-) 2015-03-31T08:48:41Z kephra: taylanub - i have more pressing matters to implement in my toy scheme 2015-03-31T08:49:55Z kephra: today: call-with-input-file, call-with-output-file, with-input-from-file, with-output-from-file, current-input-port, current-output-port, and related work on read, write, display, ... 2015-03-31T08:50:12Z leppie joined #scheme 2015-03-31T08:51:33Z civodul joined #scheme 2015-03-31T08:56:52Z kephra: taylanub, *ok* got the srfi-9 record semantics - and it looks as if the mc would also leak b in the above case of nested let over lambda (assuming that let is implemented as lambda) 2015-03-31T08:57:53Z taylanub: yes, you're right regarding the leak. a possible solution might be to switch to a compiler-based strategy, where you will be "scanning" bodies anyway and can gather the relevant information at the same time. 2015-03-31T08:58:10Z kephra: question is, if scanning the body is worth the trouble 2015-03-31T08:58:26Z kephra: for my implementation is would mean: 2015-03-31T08:58:52Z kephra: env is no longer a simple stack of prototype hashes, but a stack of prototype hashes pointing to arrays 2015-03-31T08:59:21Z kephra: and I either need a currying step in reader, or a pruning step in lambda 2015-03-31T08:59:30Z kephra: all this sounds expensive 2015-03-31T09:01:55Z kephra: so your mcapply would end in 2015-03-31T09:02:19Z kephra: (mceval body (prune-env (expand-env env (map cons params args) body))))) 2015-03-31T09:02:30Z LeoNerd: McEval... the latest taste sensation 2015-03-31T09:03:08Z Steverman joined #scheme 2015-03-31T09:03:11Z kephra: only available at McLisp stores for short while 2015-03-31T09:03:16Z benregn joined #scheme 2015-03-31T09:04:01Z taylanub: in an interpreted toy scheme I would probably not bother really 2015-03-31T09:04:28Z kephra: *ok* - so I'll place a comment in the code 2015-03-31T09:10:30Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2015-03-31T09:11:26Z alexei joined #scheme 2015-03-31T09:13:01Z bars0 joined #scheme 2015-03-31T09:13:45Z ee_cc quit (Quit: ee_cc) 2015-03-31T09:18:44Z bars0 quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-03-31T09:19:49Z Steverman quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2015-03-31T09:19:50Z kephra: *hm* what about delaying the pruning step till define or set! 2015-03-31T09:20:30Z kephra: one really does not need to prune the environement, if the lambda (or let) is used immediate - only if its stored somewhere 2015-03-31T09:21:21Z kephra: *ouch* no ... this will place a lot of burden on let, set! and define 2015-03-31T09:22:47Z Steverman joined #scheme 2015-03-31T09:24:18Z vraid joined #scheme 2015-03-31T09:29:59Z alexei quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-31T09:37:50Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-31T09:43:00Z benregn quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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(lambda params body body* ...)))) 2015-03-31T20:51:31Z mrowe_away is now known as mrowe 2015-03-31T20:51:44Z taylanub: or if you have define-syntax-rule: 2015-03-31T20:51:58Z taylanub: (define-syntax-rule (λ params body body* ...) (lambda params body body* ...)) 2015-03-31T20:52:08Z SrPx: ah... that does it, thank you ! 2015-03-31T20:52:12Z taylanub: np 2015-03-31T20:52:32Z SrPx: having define-syntax-rule means racker, right? 2015-03-31T20:52:49Z pnkfelix joined #scheme 2015-03-31T20:52:51Z taylanub: you mean Racket? dunno; I know that Guile has it. 2015-03-31T20:53:01Z caleb_smith: wow, nice. If for some reason your Scheme doesn't support an actual lambda character, you can try vim-lambdify (if using vim) 2015-03-31T20:53:18Z adu joined #scheme 2015-03-31T20:53:20Z taylanub: and prettify-symbols-mode in Emacs 2015-03-31T20:53:32Z caleb_smith: yes, couldn't remember name of the emacs one 2015-03-31T20:54:25Z pjb: The notation uses a separator between the list of parameters and the body expression: λ x y . (x y) 2015-03-31T20:54:35Z taylanub: there's several for Emacs, but prettify-symbols-mode is part of the latest Emacs release 2015-03-31T20:54:48Z pjb: You could write a macro for (λ x y $ (x y)) -> (lambda (x y) (x y)) 2015-03-31T20:55:05Z taylanub: pjb: meh... 2015-03-31T20:55:39Z taylanub: BTW ^ can work as a substitute for λ, if one doesn't want to bother with the Unicode symbol 2015-03-31T20:55:49Z pjb: or actually, since it's rather useless to evaluate a variable, (λ x y (x y)) -> (lambda (x y) (x y)) 2015-03-31T20:55:57Z SrPx: I'm using "fn" instead of "λ", that is alright to me 2015-03-31T20:56:50Z taylanub: and I've seen some define lots of macros like ^x, ^xy, ^xyz, etc. for different letters and letter series, which expand to e.g. (lambda (x y z) ...). can't be done with syntax-rules though. 2015-03-31T20:56:53Z psy_ joined #scheme 2015-03-31T20:57:03Z SrPx: Is there any Scheme implementation which allows printing functions / normal forms? For example, (display ((lambda (a) (a a)) (lambda (f x) (f (f x)))) should display (lambda (f) (f (f (f (f x))))) 2015-03-31T20:57:11Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-31T20:57:45Z taylanub: I heart MIT/GNU Scheme can print the definition of a procedure, but don't know of anything that will do partial-evaluation 2015-03-31T20:57:49Z pjb: No, but you can implement a lambda calculus interpreter that will. 2015-03-31T20:57:55Z taylanub: s/heart/heard/ 2015-03-31T20:59:25Z davexunit quit (Quit: Later) 2015-03-31T20:59:53Z SrPx: Ah okay :( the point is I was trying to use scheme as a lambda calculus interpreter. Nevermind then, just noticed it was stupid since it is not curried by default 2015-03-31T21:00:16Z alezost quit (Quit: I use GNU Guix ) 2015-03-31T21:00:19Z taylanub: indeed 2015-03-31T21:03:33Z pnkfelix quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.92.1) 2015-03-31T21:04:04Z pnkfelix joined #scheme 2015-03-31T21:12:19Z BossKonaSegwaY joined #scheme 2015-03-31T21:12:42Z ijp joined #scheme 2015-03-31T21:14:20Z alexei joined #scheme 2015-03-31T21:21:37Z karswell joined #scheme 2015-03-31T21:32:54Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-03-31T21:33:25Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-31T21:39:21Z turtleman_ joined #scheme 2015-03-31T21:41:54Z przl joined #scheme 2015-03-31T21:43:19Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-31T21:46:55Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-31T21:47:31Z ilammy quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-31T21:53:20Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-31T21:53:49Z Vutral joined #scheme 2015-03-31T21:57:45Z ziocroc quit (Quit: ziocroc) 2015-03-31T22:02:15Z Kooda joined #scheme 2015-03-31T22:15:37Z adu quit (Quit: adu) 2015-03-31T22:20:15Z zacts quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-03-31T22:28:41Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-31T22:30:01Z kongtomorrow joined #scheme 2015-03-31T22:34:34Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-31T22:42:40Z przl joined #scheme 2015-03-31T22:44:07Z caleb_smith quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2015-03-31T22:48:05Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-31T22:59:54Z aeth quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-31T23:02:00Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2015-03-31T23:18:13Z daviid joined #scheme 2015-03-31T23:21:55Z Steverman quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-31T23:23:42Z badkins_ joined #scheme 2015-03-31T23:26:18Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-31T23:32:47Z hiyosi joined #scheme 2015-03-31T23:42:17Z saul quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-31T23:43:48Z przl joined #scheme 2015-03-31T23:47:21Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-31T23:47:54Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-31T23:48:19Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)