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16:01:14 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:02:54 araujo [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has joined #scheme 16:02:54 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has quit [Changing host] 16:02:54 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 16:08:17 -!- b4283 [~b4283@218-164-115-174.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ] 16:10:51 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:16:10 jxv [~jxv@71-84-192-255.dhcp.wsco.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 16:18:13 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:19:50 jeapostrophe [~jay@216-21-162-70.slc.googlefiber.net] has joined #scheme 16:19:50 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@216-21-162-70.slc.googlefiber.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:19:50 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 16:28:30 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:30:44 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 16:36:20 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:39:36 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:47:56 alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD62829.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 16:48:51 instantchaos [~hszillat@pD9F8947C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 16:51:25 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:51:56 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:52:09 hive-mind [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 16:53:08 -!- instantchaos [~hszillat@pD9F8947C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:55:15 vibhavp [~user@ubuntu/member/vibhav] has joined #scheme 16:55:43 How would I use SFRI 13 functions in lisp? 16:58:46 guampa [~guampa@gateway/tor-sasl/guampa] has joined #scheme 16:59:20 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:00:38 vibhavp: define "in lisp"? 17:00:45 oops 17:00:56 pjdelport: that was "in mit-scheme" 17:04:29 vibhavp: I'm not very familiar with MIT Scheme, but a brief Google suggests you might have to just (load) the reference implementation 17:04:43 pjdelport: what implementation do you use? 17:06:33 vibhavp: I play around with whichever ones are interesting / convenient, at the time; I'm afraid I play around with Scheme more than I use it to write serious software. :) 17:07:19 heh, okay 17:07:39 Chicken is often my go-to implementation, though. 17:08:27 I've also been meaning to play with Racket. 17:12:05 -!- chuck54_ [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:06 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:12:08 -!- tenq is now known as tenq|out 17:14:09 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 17:30:15 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit 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-!- hive-mind [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:20:25 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:20:51 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:21:17 speckle [~speckle@c-76-111-8-161.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:21:33 hi, what's easier for a lisp noob, chicken scheme or racket? 19:21:50 or something else? 19:25:31 Racket is often used in education contexts, and the docs are excellent. 19:25:32 speckle: I'd use bigloo. 19:25:47 hmm, never heard of that one, thanks. 19:25:48 Racket is too complex an environment, with a GUI, and IDE, multiple languages, it's kind of confusing. 19:25:56 multiple languages?! 19:26:01 It has. 19:26:06 If you're not used to functional programming, I recommend HTDP (http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/). If you do, I recommend the Realm of Racket book. 19:26:47 pjb: An optional GUI library and an IDE you can use (or not) is too complicated? 19:27:09 I read The Little Schemer a while back, but I'm still a bit intimidated by the more arcane dialects 19:27:43 -!- wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:27:47 With the right learning material, shouldn't be a problem. :) 19:29:06 stamourv: yes. I prefer my tools powerful but bare. 19:29:52 No one is forcing you to use either of those. I personally use emacs most of the time for Racket programming. 19:30:32 SLIME? 19:30:46 I've heard it's good for Lisps but never used it 19:32:12 There's geiser, which is similar, for Racket and Guile. 19:32:41 ah 19:33:15 stamourv: oh, so it has a CLI? I didn't know that. 19:33:44 pjb: Yes. AFAIK, it's been there from the start. 19:34:25 I tried Racket's command line REPL, but it wasn't as nice as Python's, but I guess that's a high standard. I'm trying to move from Python to Scheme/Lisp for minor scripting tasks. 19:34:44 Have you tried the xrepl mode? 19:34:53 It improves the REPL significantly. 19:34:55 No, thanks for the heads up! 19:35:12 speckle: Common Lisp REPL and debuggers are in general great, compared to irb (I don't know what Python proposes, but I'd guess it's on the level of ruby). 19:36:07 Python's default REPL is slightly better than Ruby, and IPython is significantly better 19:36:47 IPython easily handles multi-line statements, and lets you go up and down in it until you are completely done with it. 19:38:58 hive-mind [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 19:40:05 I just feel like Scheme will give more power than Python once you know it better, though. 19:40:18 -!- vibhavp [~user@ubuntu/member/vibhav] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:35 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-196-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:43:54 speckle: what do you mean by that 19:45:16 I mean that it seems to work at a higher level of abstraction, due to being a s-expr language. 19:46:17 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-141-42.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:46:41 circ-user-2RZbE [~circuser-@109.226.16.254] has joined #scheme 19:46:50 mango_mds [~mango_mds@c-71-207-240-42.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:47:09 speckle: are you thinking of macros? 19:47:10 -!- circ-user-2RZbE is now known as hi 19:47:23 not necessarily even macros 19:47:25 antithesis [antithesis@5.44.97.38] has joined #scheme 19:47:36 -!- hi is now known as SoleSoul 19:48:03 even the homoiconicity of data and code can help -- for example, this article kind of inspired me: http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/lisp.html 19:48:03 speckle: i guess I don't understand, then 19:48:11 When using (system "some bash code"), how do I pass the arguments from the CLI to that bash code? 19:49:13 Hi. Beginner here. I want to concatenate multiple strings, not just two. I tried string-concatenate in gambit-c but it says "unbound variable string-concatenate". Is it missing? Is there an alternative? 19:49:19 alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD62829.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:49:35 For example, echo.c is a compilation of (system "echo $@"). If I do ./echo.c Hello world!, it won't display anything because it doesn't see Hello world! as arguments 19:49:39 What can I do about that? 19:50:25 rudybot: doc system* 19:50:26 stamourv: your sandbox is ready 19:50:27 stamourv: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/subprocess.html#(def._((lib._racket%2Fsystem..rkt)._system*)) 19:50:33 antithesis: ^ 19:50:55 rudybot: doc string-append 19:50:56 stamourv: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/strings.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._string-append)) 19:51:00 SoleSoul: ^ 19:52:20 kilimanjaro, what do you think about macros, though? 19:52:30 stamourv`: Thanks, I've seen that Racket doesn't have it but guile does so I wondered. 19:53:31 SoleSoul: Racket's `string-append' accepts as many strings as you want. 19:53:43 rudybot: (string-append "look" " 3 " "strings!") 19:53:43 stamourv: ; Value: "look 3 strings!" 19:53:49 speckle: i've occasionally found them useful 19:53:53 rudybot: (apply string-append '("look" " 3 " "strings!")) 19:53:54 stamourv: ; Value: "look 3 strings!" 19:54:10 i don't program much, and when I do I work primarily in python 19:54:27 simply because when you work in python, most of the work is already done for you :) 19:54:30 stamourv`: Cool! I'm not used to that flexibility. Thank you! 19:54:30 stamourv but that's racket, not scheme 19:55:49 oh, ok 19:55:53 antithesis: Strictly speaking, Scheme can't talk to the OS. 19:56:28 I see, maybe dropping Python for Scheme is silly when it comes to small scripts. But I might still use Scheme for bigger programs. 19:58:49 kilimanjaro is the most interesting programmer in the world 19:59:36 agreed 20:00:16 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #scheme 20:01:02 -!- guampa [~guampa@gateway/tor-sasl/guampa] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:02 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 20:01:02 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02:05 say something interesting. 20:02:23 "The lobster, unlike you or I, has his skeleton on the outside". 20:02:28 guampa [~guampa@gateway/tor-sasl/guampa] has joined #scheme 20:03:10 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #scheme 20:03:11 And yet, and yet . . . Denying temporal succession, denying the self, denying the astronomical universe, are apparent desperations and secret consolations. Our destiny is not frightful by being unreal; it is frightful because it is irreversible and iron-clad. Time is the substance I am made of. Time is a river which sweeps me along, but I am the river; it is a tiger which destroys me, but I am the tiger; it is a fire which consumes me, but 20:03:32 meh 20:03:54 offby1: ok how about https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgoqPH5CAAEOEby.jpg 20:03:55 tl;dr 20:03:57 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:04:03 stamourv I get Error: unbound variable: system* 20:04:23 *offby1* stares blankly 20:04:31 rudybot: (doc system*) 20:04:31 *offby1: your sandbox is ready 20:04:31 *offby1: error: doc: undefined; cannot reference an identifier before its definition in module: 'program 20:04:36 gaah 20:04:39 rudybot: (help system*) 20:04:39 *offby1: error: help: undefined; cannot reference an identifier before its definition in module: 'program 20:04:46 *offby1* gives up 20:04:47 stamourv nvm it's something else 20:04:52 rudybot: doc system* 20:04:53 *offby1: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/subprocess.html#(def._((lib._racket%2Fsystem..rkt)._system*)) 20:04:58 *whew* 20:05:04 lol 20:05:11 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 20:05:21 you'd think _I_ would know how to do that 20:05:35 rudybot: system* 20:05:36 *offby1: ; Value: # 20:05:41 offby1, kilimanjaro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWF56WDJeIk 20:06:25 stamourv: perfect 20:06:44 stamourv: who's the guy? 20:07:02 David Van Horn. 20:07:10 never met him 20:07:21 One of the authors of Realm of Racket, faculty at UMd. 20:07:33 stamourv: you know why that video is better than 99% of all funny videos? Because it's _short_. (And I don't mean that in a snarky way) 20:07:35 He may have been at Racketcon. 20:07:55 There's other funny Realm of Racket videos, too. 20:08:00 SNL, for example, always does parodies that run for 3, 4, 5 minutes, when they should be 30 seconds. 20:08:18 http://realmofracket.com/videos.html 20:09:20 wow, other than dvh and mattias, I don't recognize any of those names. 20:10:06 There's NEU undergrads. 20:10:09 stamourv I get racket: exec failed (No such file or directory; errno=2) 20:10:14 s/There's/They're/ 20:10:45 antithesis: `system*' doesn't go through the shell, so you need to give it the full path. 20:11:19 stamourv no, even when I do (system* "echo something") 20:11:21 if I recall correctly there are about 800 variants of "system" 20:11:26 no arguments involved 20:11:34 rudybot: (system* "echo something") 20:11:34 *offby1: error: subprocess: `execute' access denied for echo something 20:11:38 ah, there is that 20:11:45 oh 20:12:37 antithesis: (system* "/bin/echo" "something") works for me 20:13:24 antithesis: you might do better in #racket, since I think you're dealing with something specific to that language 20:13:34 not that stamourv isn't a fine fellow (but he's probably in #racket too) 20:13:42 I am. :) 20:13:46 who'd'a thunk 20:14:19 And I second offby1's suggestion of splitting the command. That's how `system*' works. 20:16:54 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 20:20:58 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:31:16 stamourv actually seems to be a racket #op or something 20:31:20 er #racket op 20:31:32 I blame Twitter for that typo 20:33:06 not that I use Twitter 20:34:11 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:37:26 speckle: I am. 20:37:39 superjudge [uid16781@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-olrgjdnopkrcsywe] has joined #scheme 20:44:23 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.204.28.168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:24 -!- Isp-sec [~palach@89-178-52-218.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:55 -!- mango_mds [~mango_mds@c-71-207-240-42.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00:01 -!- guampa [~guampa@gateway/tor-sasl/guampa] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:38 guampa [~guampa@gateway/tor-sasl/guampa] has joined #scheme 21:13:01 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:16:58 -!- dessos [~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #scheme 21:19:39 jao [~jao@151.pool85-58-61.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #scheme 21:19:42 -!- jao [~jao@151.pool85-58-61.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Changing host] 21:19:43 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 21:20:40 -!- waxysubs is now known as mark_weaver 21:20:57 Hi. I wrote my first ever Scheme program (a little guess a number game). It works but throws an error "Operator is not a PROCEDURE" when 'guess' is finished. Why is that? Also, since this is my first application, feel free to give me a tip or two about the "scheme way" of doing things. Thanks. Code: http://paste.ofcode.org/zNB9cUPv5KAmtZwDCJXtuh 21:25:42 -!- jxv [~jxv@71-84-192-255.dhcp.wsco.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:28:20 jxv [~jxv@71-84-192-255.dhcp.wsco.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 21:29:25 -!- antithesis [antithesis@5.44.97.38] has left #scheme 21:34:16 SoleSoul: First thing is that your code formatting is very strange for GUESS 21:34:44 Strange? :) 21:34:54 I'll look at examples and compare. 21:35:27 a second 21:36:25 that strange pastebin won't let me paste the code :-/ 21:37:05 use another one, I don't care 21:37:13 http://paste.lisp.org/display/141436 21:37:21 do you see the difference? 21:37:24 SoleSoul: Regarding that error message, I think it's because you have double parens around the print in the "else" clause 21:37:39 ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.204.28.168] has joined #scheme 21:37:49 pjdelport: but it happens in the 'g' caluse 21:38:24 what Scheme are you using? 21:38:41 one problem is definitely what pjdelport pointed out 21:39:02 the body of a let doesn't need extra () around it 21:39:32 ecraven: gambit 21:39:42 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #scheme 21:40:25 the Scheme standard doesn't have a procedure PRINT (it's called DISPLAY there), just so you know :) 21:40:29 I'm fixing the formatting and removing the extra parens. Lets see 21:40:39 Ok 21:40:40 SoleSoul: In terms of style, you don't need the global answer variable, or set!. (Those are usually code smells, unless you specifically know you need them.) 21:44:34 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.204.28.168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:36 pjdelport, ecraven: I removed the extra parens but the error is still here 21:44:51 what is the error exactly? 21:45:20 also, you will notice that the SET! and the COND are parameters to PRINT (which is most probably wrong) 21:45:24 *** ERROR IN guess, "game1.scm"@14.5 -- Operator is not a PROCEDURE (#!void #!void #!void) 21:46:18 this looks like you wrote ((print ..) (set! ..) (cond ..)) 21:46:33 you also have the same problem in the ELSE part of the COND, you have extra () around PRINT and GUESS 21:46:55 if you want, you can write (BEGIN (PRINT ...) (GUESS ...)) to make the sequencing explicit, but you don't need that with COND, it's already included 21:50:09 ecraven: well, I meant to write ((print ..) (set! ..) (cond ..)) because I thought that this is how you do multiple things one after another. I guess I'm wrong here? 21:50:17 yes, you are wrong 21:50:22 :) 21:50:22 the correct way is (BEGIN ... ... ...) 21:50:28 I'll google that 21:50:29 or, sometimes just ... ... ... 21:50:39 so with LET, you only put one form after another 21:50:48 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 21:50:56 (LET ((.....)) (print "a") (print "b") (print "c")) 21:51:08 same for the body of the COND clauses 21:51:17 same for DEFINE of functions (but not of variables) 21:51:46 if you get that correct, your program will work. it won't guess 250 correctly though, for example :) 21:52:19 also, ')(' looks a bit strange, I'd suggest ') (' (with a space) 21:53:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-242.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:07 kobain_ [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #scheme 21:57:11 ecraven: The error is no more. Thank you! I'm quite sure I didn't totally get the point. What is still wrong with this? http://paste.ofcode.org/m5Ry2uPtgpyvWUQaSvTnyh 21:57:30 (regarding the parens) 21:58:21 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:01:31 that looks good 22:01:38 but try to let it guess 250 :) 22:01:52 ecraven: it guesses 250 on the second try 22:02:20 no, it asks if your number is larger, which it isn't, then it goes until 249, but never until 250 22:02:51 ecraven: Yes, I didn't want to add this. I just wrote (print "If I guessed it right please input 'g'.\n") 22:03:00 ah, sorry, my bad then :) 22:03:13 ecraven: thank you very much. Scheme is fun :) 22:03:31 it is :) if you have questions (also about what we just did), just ask! 22:03:34 I learned quite a few languages already and I like this one 22:03:45 Thank you. 22:04:18 I have to leave now but I'll probably be back tomorrow or in a few days. See you :) 22:04:27 See you around :) 22:04:54 -!- SoleSoul [~circuser-@109.226.16.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:29 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #scheme 22:10:22 davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has joined #scheme 22:11:42 -!- kobain_ [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:11:53 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 22:16:48 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:52:26 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 23:13:12 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 23:14:32 FrostyX [~frostyx@tux.inf.upol.cz] has joined #scheme 23:14:53 pnkfelix [~pnkfelix@bas75-2-88-170-201-21.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 23:16:37 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFE921.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:12 Please guys, can you help me what is wrong? I am trying to fix it for hours. How is that possible that in this code http://pastebin.com/F8j67WtC the display on 13. line prints # in some cases? I think it happens when the null? condition on line 4. goes through. 23:17:26 *help me find 23:17:36 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:23:57 FrostyX: aren't you missing an "else", at the end of that cond? 23:25:29 Ah, there is "else" in scheme. I totally forgot it. I will try if it helps 23:26:23 FrostyX: Without "else", that code will try to evaluate the recursive find-move call as the condition, and then always return void 23:26:43 (instead of the result of the recursive call, which is probably what you meant) 23:28:46 I am out of words. I thought else branch is written this way. It didnt seems to be weird at all for me. Obviously adding "else" word fixed my problem and ended many hours of searching 23:29:27 Thank you very much. You totally saved me 23:30:16 Glad to help. :) 23:34:23 phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has joined #scheme 23:37:20 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:39:45 taylanub [tub@p4FD92567.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 23:39:53 -!- FareWell [fare@nat/google/x-ywmfvhwcaqdthdzv] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:41:07 -!- pnkfelix [~pnkfelix@bas75-2-88-170-201-21.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 23:46:46 ASau [~user@p54AFE921.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 23:54:23 bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gprefzqxvnmkwftt] has joined #scheme 00:02:01 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFE921.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:02:53 ASau` [~user@p5083DE93.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 00:13:59 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 00:18:25 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:25:53 -!- superjudge 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13:19:03 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #scheme 13:24:24 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-194-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 13:26:36 -!- b4283 [~b4283@218-164-209-9.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ] 13:26:38 -!- andares [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:27:20 alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD61D14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 13:41:10 -!- mango_mds [~mango_mds@c-71-207-240-42.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:27:59 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@p2045-ipngn1006marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:27 frkout [~frkout@p2045-ipngn1006marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:32:48 -!- frkout [~frkout@p2045-ipngn1006marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:49:11 wingo: (apropos twitter) we just broke everyone's code that used any of the existing languages (other than r5rs & r6rs) 14:51:18 that makes me pretty hesitant to consider the change... 14:51:45 samth: i admire your boldness in any case :) 14:52:07 wingo: well, there was less code 6 years ago 14:52:31 true 14:52:51 and we had been encouraging a "not mutating cons" style for a long time 14:52:57 more than other scheme systems, i think 14:53:33 partly because racket has always emphasized defining structs 14:53:50 wingo: but i think you should go for it :) 14:53:54 add a compiler flag 14:53:58 fwiw this thought was provoked by some work optimizing map/for-each/etc 14:54:14 which has all the problems that matthew pointed out in that blog post :) 14:54:16 the sooner you start, the sooner the transititon is over 14:55:07 true 15:00:42 wingo: things that just we do are racket doing their own thing, but things that guile does too are scheme community trends :) 15:00:54 haha ;) 15:07:58 jxv [~jxv@71-84-192-255.dhcp.wsco.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 15:09:07 Isp-sec [~palach@89-178-52-218.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 15:09:11 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 15:14:13 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 15:23:48 ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.204.28.168] has joined #scheme 15:37:51 ijp [~user@host86-132-91-53.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 15:37:54 add^_ [~add^_@m176-70-193-29.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 15:53:10 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:58:47 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 16:00:14 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 16:00:46 samth: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.guile.devel/16941, fwiw 16:05:40 wingo: here's the racket implementation: https://github.com/plt/racket/blob/master/racket/collects/racket/private/map.rkt#L46 16:05:41 http://tinyurl.com/kszrpdp 16:09:16 guile's arity checks aren't that cheap right now 16:09:27 used to be, but oh well 16:10:53 mango_mds [~mango_mds@c-71-207-240-42.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:13:57 wingo: does guile not store the arity as part of the procedure? 16:19:56 Shadox [Shadox@71-10-49-117.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 16:46:30 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:47:13 -!- huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.60.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:49:31 bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nigzrepwdxiuycbg] has joined #scheme 16:50:38 samth: it stores them in another section of the elf file 16:50:54 to get it you have to bisect to find the elf image, then bisect to find the arity descriptor 16:51:56 oh ugh 17:05:25 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 17:05:53 so, is there an implementation of hewitt's planner? 17:05:58 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-75-245-74.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:18:56 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:19:39 tengri [~alp@188.3.222.233] has joined #scheme 17:36:57 samth: otoh if the thing is being inlined, probably you can prove more things at compile-time about the callee's arity... 17:38:01 (of course when applying a function, the arity check is done in code) 17:45:52 -!- ijp [~user@host86-132-91-53.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: --------- this ijp has ended peacefully ------------] 17:46:08 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.204.28.168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:53 ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.204.28.168] has joined #scheme 17:48:20 ggrant [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined 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[uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgpbvnnoktbxtzia] has joined #scheme 11:38:15 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 11:38:46 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:45:59 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-75-253-154.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:07:00 -!- da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:11:36 da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #scheme 12:11:50 -!- _5kg [~zifeitong@60.191.2.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:14:12 huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.60.198] has joined #scheme 12:14:15 -!- huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.60.198] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:19:14 serwombat [~wombat@cpc1-sotn9-2-0-cust164.15-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 12:20:45 tupi [~user@189.60.13.234] has joined #scheme 12:25:13 huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.60.198] has joined #scheme 12:25:16 -!- huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.60.198] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:26:16 huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.60.198] has joined #scheme 12:26:21 -!- huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.60.198] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:32:03 cdidd [~cdidd@128-75-240-27.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 12:43:48 desanex [~abc@p54B76DA4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 12:48:37 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 13:06:59 -!- yacks [~py@122.179.97.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:14:21 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:15:53 hey guys, what does functional language even mean? 13:18:42 there are languages that function, and languages that don't function. 13:20:57 pjb: what are examples of the latter? :) 13:21:07 php? 13:21:08 :-) 13:21:34 desanex: the bare minimum for a functional language would be a language where functions are first class objects. C qualifies. 13:21:39 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:22:13 PHP is a dysfunctional language 13:23:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_programming 13:23:32 does that mean that functions can be treated like every other piece of data 13:23:53 Yes. 13:24:31 lambda let you make function 'literals', you can bind functions to variables, pass them as parameters, etc. And of course, you can call them. 13:25:47 and when languages like java force a type declaration on your objects, does the language loose their functionality? 13:26:08 That's orthogonal. 13:26:30 And you can always use function composition to avoid intermediate variables of which you'd have to declare the type. 13:26:58 pjb: how do you define "first class object" if C qualifies as having first class functions? 13:27:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-class_citizen 13:28:51 Don't be confused, what makes C bad is 1- implementations that are unsafe (not checking array bounds, invalid pointers, etc), and 2- implementations not providing a garbage collector. 13:30:03 notice that ANSI CL, or r5rs don't specify safety or garbage collector any more than ANSI C. It's just a culture problem: lisp implementors write safe and garbage collected implementations. Even of C compiler (eg. Zeta-C, Vacietis), while C implementors write unsafe compilers. 13:30:34 -!- gf3 [~gf3@aether.gf3.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:31:33 i guess i'm used to seeing people think of c as not having first class functions, as it can't "create them at runtime" (or however you want to word that) 13:32:07 This is not entirely true. You can use a library such as llvm to create functions at run time in C. 13:32:33 Granted, the C language doesn't help much with it (you need a big library such as llvm). 13:32:52 gf3 [~gf3@aether.gf3.ca] has joined #scheme 13:33:11 but it can't be done in standard C, can it? 13:33:29 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:33:56 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #scheme 13:34:07 davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has joined #scheme 13:34:10 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 13:34:15 SirDayBat: not without a non-standard library and much work. but void *CreateFunctionFromSourceText(const char *text); is definitely implementable 13:34:16 You could argue that, yes. 13:34:52 I mean storing bytes in an array, casting it to a function pointer and calling it, definitely can't be qualified of "standard C". 13:35:16 But each operation taken by itself would be perfectly good standard C :-) 13:35:26 :p 13:35:42 is a turing-machine-esque programming language functional then? It must be, because it treats data of all sorts alike 13:35:47 ? 13:36:18 yes, maths is a functional programming language 13:36:31 I haven't seen many people argue that C is functional :) 13:36:51 ecraven: you've not seen the C code I write :-) 13:36:53 ecraven: you've seen the "c is a pure functional language" blog post? 13:37:12 desanex: the turing machine is a fine model of hardware, but not a very good one for programming languages 13:37:23 the converse is true of the lambda calculus 13:37:50 ftp://ftp.informatimago.com/users/pjb/lisp/ast.c 13:38:00 desanex: in practice, "functional language" implies a bunch of cultural baggage about how you write code, rather than specific features of the language 13:38:55 ijp: not yet, reading it now :) 13:39:05 ijp: that explains the confusion on the internet, thanks ^^ 13:39:21 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:40:20 functional style, object oriented style, procedural style, etc. There are tons of different styles. Of course, some languages help more with some styles than others. Lisp or scheme help with all styles, since they have macros. 13:40:24 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 13:40:54 or programming paradigms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_paradigm 13:41:15 Check the diagram. 13:43:40 pjb: seems... elaborate 13:43:50 thanks 13:43:53 also, what's the deal with tail recursion. I slowly get the mechanics of it (and it makes code cooler per se ^^), but does it have any explicit advantages over the usual loops? ( I am slowly starting with SICP, so I haven't figured out every tool in the scheme-shed) 13:45:05 desanex: in some occasions, it might lead to code that's cleaner. But otherwise it doesn't have advantages over loop: they're equivalent. 13:45:05 desanex: well, rather than having to write a looping construct, you just use recursion. 13:45:13 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:45:14 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@173.231.115.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:45:22 I think it's cleaner 13:46:26 -!- haroldwu [~haroldwu@unaffiliated/haroldwu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:46:38 -!- asc [~Charkov@195.14.168.165] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:40 haroldwu [~haroldwu@219.85.185.194] has joined #scheme 13:46:54 fridim_ [~fridim@173.231.115.58] has joined #scheme 13:46:58 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 13:47:22 desanex: the embedding of state machines with tail recursion is way nicer than the imperative while-switch 13:49:05 asc [~Charkov@c5.edrana.lt] has joined #scheme 13:50:09 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-88cde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 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[~shozan@fsf/member/shodan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:27 jxv [~jxv@71-84-192-255.dhcp.wsco.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 15:22:02 serwombat [~wombat@dhcp-200-102.wireless.soton.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 15:22:15 SHODAN [~shozan@fsf/member/shodan] has joined #scheme 15:24:48 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:25:29 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 15:27:36 _5kg [~zifeitong@60.191.2.238] has joined #scheme 15:30:39 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:32:07 emma [~em@user-0cev0ld.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 15:32:14 -!- emma [~em@user-0cev0ld.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:32:14 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 15:32:51 -!- fzappa [~user@204-159-77-217.fttx.luna.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:13 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:18 pjb: I think the distinction is that while you can do those things in C runtimes, none of it is in the language itself. 15:38:10 so you "can do first-class functions in C" (after all, many functional languages compile to / run on C), but it's devious to stretch that to "C has first-class functions" 15:38:41 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 15:39:09 The latter is about as misleading as saying e.g. "Python has logic programming", merely because you can implement a Prolog library. 15:39:16 It is not at all devious to say C has first-class functions. 15:41:20 cosmez_ [~cosmez@200.92.109.189] has joined #scheme 15:41:45 -!- cosmez [~cosmez@200.92.109.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:44:10 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:44:51 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 15:49:13 -!- serwombat [~wombat@dhcp-200-102.wireless.soton.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:50:04 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 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timeout: 265 seconds] 16:09:26 hey guys wondering if any one have some tips and tricks for sxml navigation? 16:10:25 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 16:12:32 karswell [~user@84.93.180.60] has joined #scheme 16:12:38 For editing it or writing programs that operate on it? 16:13:20 ah just getting information deep down in it 16:13:40 just did this ugly little thing to get some information i want 16:13:40 (cadadr (cadadr (caddr response-sxml))) 16:14:14 arubincloud [uid489@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cebuilniixvvulyp] has joined #scheme 16:14:42 there is sxml-match, you can use match also, or sxpath 16:14:52 cadadring is toxic :) 16:16:04 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:17:12 emma [~em@user-0cev0ld.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 16:17:14 -!- emma [~em@user-0cev0ld.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:17:14 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 16:19:33 -!- phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has quit 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Is this an issue of parentheses? 04:52:52 I plan on adding addition cond-clauses fyi 04:52:58 *additional 04:56:37 No. 04:57:08 Read the error message again, it is clear enough. 04:59:51 eric_: change 'define' to 'lambda' and I suspect all will be well 05:00:57 offby1: not in this case. 05:01:01 He needs a named lambda 05:01:51 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 05:02:13 (It is called "letrec" usually...) 05:02:19 No luck, I understand what the error message says, but how is this wrong? 05:02:26 (set! matcher (lambda (frag) 05:03:03 No luck switching to lambda, looking up letrec now. 05:03:05 eric_: "define" may return no value. 05:03:18 Thank you ASau 05:03:33 ((letrec* ((f (lambda (x) (if (<= x 1) 1 (* x (f (- x 1))))))) f) 5) 05:04:13 define is scoped within make-matcher 05:09:54 -!- arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 05:11:49 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 05:12:24 or actually you just want to return matcher using (begin (...) matcher) 05:16:41 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:19:10 nonrecursive [~user@adsl-75-53-200-129.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 05:21:28 mango_mds [~mango_mds@c-71-207-240-42.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:24:32 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.192.106] has left #scheme 05:24:53 omefire [~omefire@c-50-159-45-177.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:27:12 trying to understand the addition function defined in The Little Schemer: http://bpaste.net/show/4awSdzv1a2TrhQogaCb0/ 05:27:35 amgarching [~amgarchin@p4FD6248D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 05:28:12 can someone tell me a good way to debug what is happening in the second (wrong) function? I'm trying to use guile's tracepoints but it just seems to be exploding in infinite recursion 05:28:47 what's the difference? 05:29:25 jxv_ [~jxv@71-84-192-255.dhcp.wsco.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 05:29:25 -!- jxv_ is now known as zjxv 05:30:05 -!- jxv [~jxv@71-84-192-255.dhcp.wsco.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:30:07 ha! 05:30:12 damn, I pasted it wrong 05:30:17 give me a moment 05:30:47 frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has joined #scheme 05:30:53 oh okay, I thought I was going blind 05:34:09 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:38:19 I know it's a gap in my understanding - I just can't reason it out http://bpaste.net/show/GTWaTeUNMb4uEQ5nEhca/ 05:39:40 I suppose I should also mention add1 and sub1 are function returning n+1, for the sake of completeness 05:42:26 is there a reason you swap the parameter orders when you recurse? 05:42:40 it's not necessarily wrong, but it's odd 05:42:41 No! I just realized what I'd done. 05:43:02 That, of course, would be my problem. Thank you. 05:43:04 it will be wrong for certain recursion patterns ant not for others 05:43:06 but yeah :) 05:51:38 -!- amgarching [~amgarchin@p4FD6248D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:52:44 Fare [nnk@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:53:23 sak [~sak@149.43.191.149] has joined #scheme 05:56:43 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-173-51.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:58:58 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.208.66.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:00:22 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:58 frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has joined #scheme 06:01:00 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.151.45] has quit [Quit: off.] 06:01:29 -!- sak [~sak@149.43.191.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:02:32 sak [~sak@149.43.191.149] has joined #scheme 06:03:31 jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-123.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:05:47 huixiao [~huixiao@218.18.30.251] has joined #scheme 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error: Operation timed out] 15:03:14 metasyntax [~tvenable@proxy5.med-web.com] has joined #scheme 15:07:13 Kneferilis [~Kneferili@nb1-210.static.cytanet.com.cy] has joined #scheme 15:10:30 mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has joined #scheme 15:12:27 tupi [~user@189.60.13.234] has joined #scheme 15:15:28 JantjePietjeKlaa [~nevzets@unaffiliated/nevzets] has joined #scheme 15:17:02 offby1, don't you agree that the fact that cond clauses cannot contain a form ( <= ) which is basically (let ((temp )) (if ( ) )) is truly outrageous. 15:17:02 Why if ( => ) exists cannot it go in reverse, it is quite useful to have it. 15:17:56 developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 15:20:11 rudybot: eval (cond ((assv 3 '((2 . two) (3 . three) (5 . five))) => cdr) (else 'not-found)) 15:20:11 ski: ; Value: 'three 15:21:17 Outrageous? Gee, that's some pretty strong language about a minor syntactic feature... 15:22:39 frusen [~frusen@h95-155-216-74.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has joined #scheme 15:22:39 -!- frusen [~frusen@h95-155-216-74.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:22:39 frusen [~frusen@fsf/member/frusen] has joined #scheme 15:23:18 ski, well, that's the other part. 15:24:05 Say (cond (even? <= 2)) gave you 2 15:24:05 Riastradh, I am very dramatic. 15:24:52 On this most auspicious of nights however, allow me to suggest the character behind this dramatis persona... 15:26:08 do you have any specific use-case for this `<=' ? 15:26:54 (i presume all but the first `' in the template above ought to have been `temp') 15:28:00 Yeah 15:28:00 Well, what often happens is that you have a cond and you test a complicated expensive expression against something and return it if it meets some praedicate. 15:28:03 Ehh wait, I'll pastebin some code 15:30:41 there's a paste site linked from the topic 15:31:13 (unfortunately the lisppaste announcing bot seems pretty dead these days) 15:34:07 rudybot: eval (require math/number-theory) (match (sub1 (expt 2 55)) [(? prime? x) (format "~a is prime" x)] [_ "no luck"]) 15:34:07 stamourv: ; Value: "no luck" 15:34:15 JantjePietjeKlaa: ^ 15:34:16 ski: http://hastebin.com/raw/fotilaroge 15:35:50 stamourv, match is that form that does that? 15:36:39 match does it all! 15:37:14 (add1 DerGuteMoritz) 15:37:24 Racket extension? 15:37:27 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:37:51 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #scheme 15:37:53 That was Racket's pattern matcher. Various schemes have pattern matchers too, which may be able to do that. 15:38:12 (shameless-plug "http://ceaude.twoticketsplease.de/articles/an-introduction-to-lispy-pattern-matching.html") 15:38:12 http://tinyurl.com/bmsvavq 15:38:19 -!- asc [~Charkov@c5.edrana.lt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:38:58 Well, I've already written my own cond which does that, I just like to often drop by and tell offby1 all the things I find outrageous, not sure why. 15:39:32 DerGuteMoritz: Does it support structs too? 15:39:37 Also, is it extensible? 15:40:32 stamourv: yeah it does support structs 15:40:32 asc [~Charkov@c5.edrana.lt] has joined #scheme 15:41:19 stamourv: it refers to Wright's pattern matcher 15:41:47 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 15:42:43 Just curious, how does it communicate with the struct system? 15:43:06 that's implementation dependent 15:43:35 -!- tenq|out is now known as tenq 15:44:56 Right, I'm asking about how it does it in Chicken. 15:46:19 stamourv: " Currently it is required that SRFI-9 record predicates are named exactly like the record type name, followed by a ? (question mark) character." 15:47:05 da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #scheme 15:47:45 jxv [~jxv@71-84-192-255.dhcp.wsco.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 15:48:48 -!- da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:48:55 samth: Ah, thanks. 15:50:24 stamourv: search for $ here: http://chicken.kitten-technologies.co.uk/henrietta.cgi?name=matchable&version=3.3 15:50:24 http://tinyurl.com/kf97l8c 15:53:04 DerGuteMoritz, what are the limits to the match though? 15:53:51 I don't imagine it can destructure _everything_ in a dynamically typed language, in ML-style type system the rules are quite clear on where the limits lie. 15:54:33 It can even destructure your socks. 15:54:38 stamourv, it also doesn't actually seem to solve my problem though. 15:54:38 Oh wait no, yes it does. 15:55:26 I never wear those. 15:55:57 That's because MATCH destructured them. 15:56:04 -!- mark_weaver is now known as waxysubs 15:56:04 You can't wear them any more until you restructure them. 15:56:12 One of the advantages of ML-type pattern mtching is that there are extremely clear rules about what you can and cannot destructure with the exception of those bizarre n+k patterns Haskell once had. 15:57:38 -!- waxysubs is now known as mark_weaver 15:58:31 (you can't add a guard into a pattern in SML or OCaml or Haskell, though ..) 15:58:38 *ski* can't recall the Clean situation 15:59:20 You can in OCAMl actually 15:59:21 | (Constructor x y) when -> works in OCAML 16:00:01 -!- desanex [~abc@p5DDDCB0A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:00:16 but that attaches to a branch, not to a pattern 16:00:54 You actually used clean? 16:01:10 mostly to play with uniqueness 16:01:41 What do you mean with that? 16:01:43 It only matches the pattern if the condition holds 16:03:32 i mean you can't say `| ConstructorA (x when foo x) | ConstructorB (x when bar x,_) -> ..x..' e.g. 16:03:56 (that's an "or"-pattern, yes) 16:05:16 hm, perhaps that's a bad example. take `| ConstructorA x | ConstructorB (x,ys when baz ys) -> ..x..' instead 16:07:03 hm, no. both are ok 16:10:19 (and both can be expressed with Wright's matcher) 16:10:44 jao [~jao@137.113.14.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 16:10:48 -!- jao [~jao@137.113.14.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Changing host] 16:10:48 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 16:11:05 I have had slightly too much coffee to be able to understand this, I will trust in your impeccable judgement. 16:11:10 But you know you want the [f <= exp] clause. 16:11:36 arubincloud [uid489@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xrbkkdzcotzreclk] has joined #scheme 16:11:59 -!- arubincloud [uid489@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xrbkkdzcotzreclk] has quit [Client Quit] 16:12:09 allowing `let'-patterns might be more useful 16:12:10 arubincloud [uid489@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bswsxdvpqfjxzoem] has joined #scheme 16:12:21 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:16:55 -!- seantallen [seantallen@nat/theladders/x-claiqrjyzaolzehn] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 16:17:37 seantallen [seantallen@nat/theladders/x-nredpvpzbttlxagh] has joined #scheme 16:18:08 ski, what do you mean with that? 16:21:59 -!- mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23:26 -!- tenq is now known as tenq|out 16:34:07 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #scheme 16:36:08 -!- mark_weaver is now known as mark_weaver_ 16:36:21 -!- frusen [~frusen@fsf/member/frusen] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:36:27 mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has joined #scheme 16:37:56 -!- mark_weaver_ is now known as mark_weaver 16:39:21 desanex [~abc@p5DDDF9A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 16:44:54 -!- desanex [~abc@p5DDDF9A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #scheme 16:45:58 -!- asc [~Charkov@c5.edrana.lt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46:20 -!- JantjePietjeKlaa [~nevzets@unaffiliated/nevzets] has left #scheme 16:49:59 stamourv: sorry, got distracted by work 16:50:14 ski: like match-let[*]? 16:50:27 desanex [~abc@p5DDDF9A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 16:51:13 DerGuteMoritz: No problem, same here. :) 16:52:59 stamourv: heh :-) but I see your question was answered 16:53:21 stamourv: is Racket's matcher extensible in that one can add their own pattern types?= 16:54:23 DerGuteMoritz : no 16:54:59 well I guess the ? pattern is enough for most extension needs 16:55:00 like having `let' forms in patterns 16:55:17 DerGuteMoritz, ski: It's possible. 16:55:27 rudybot: doc define-match-expander 16:55:29 stamourv: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/match.html#(form._((lib._racket%2Fmatch..rkt)._define-match-expander)) 16:55:41 `(let (( ) ...) )' as a pattern, or something like that 16:55:57 DerGuteMoritz: `?' covers a lot of cases, `app' even more, but sometimes you need more. 16:56:17 ski: That's just an `and' pattern, IIUC. 16:56:45 -!- b4283 [~b4283@218-164-215-228.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ] 16:56:45 stamourv: neat! 16:56:55 the value is matched with the body pattern (possibly binding variables), then the expressions are evaluated (in the augmented environment) and matched respectively on their respective patterns (possibly binding more variables) 16:58:07 stamourv : you need at least some way to introduce an auxilary variable bound by a pattern, whose value doesn't (directly) come from the value being matched by the whole pattern 16:59:10 Err, then I don't know. 16:59:31 ski: can you give an example? 16:59:40 Sounds like that would be more cleany expressed #:fail-when clauses (or I forget the exact keyword). 17:01:14 (or (let (((* y y) x)) 17:01:24 `(,y)) 17:01:24 -!- Tuplanolla [~Put-on-la@dsl-jklbrasgw2-54f8aa-52.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:01:30 `(,x ,y)) 17:01:36 is a simple, silly, example 17:03:13 where's y from? 17:03:17 johnny_legs [~sewercake@CPE78cd8ec236c0-CM78cd8ec236bd.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 17:03:24 in one alternative, it makes bindings for both `x' and `y' from the value being matched; in the other case, it only makes a binding for `y' for the value being matched, instead making the value for `x' in some other way (in this case from `y', but you could also imagine some default value) 17:04:09 ah now I get it I think 17:04:17 the `(,y) pattern binds y , then the expression (* y y) is evaluated and the resulting value is matched with the corresponding pattern x 17:04:31 it's, in a sense, running the `let' "backwards" 17:05:29 (using a `where' variant instead of `let', naming the "body" pattern before the clauses, could be more readable. that is not the point here, though) 17:08:46 (also, one could consider flipping the order of expression-pattern in the clauses. the above seemed most straightforward in the "backwards" sense, though) 17:11:27 (still, for a form that is both a valid `let'-expression, and a valid `let'-pattern, like e.g. `(let ((x 42)) x)', i suppose there'd still be a small discrepancy in declarative semantics. as a pattern, that example would bind `x', in addition to matching it to `42'. but as an expression, it wouldn't ensure an existing `x' binding conforms to `42') 17:11:43 http://pasterack.org/pastes/6063 <-- I think that implements your let pattern as a match expander. 17:12:29 (for some reason Pasterack didn't print the result but it's 4) 17:13:03 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:13:42 what does `app' there do ? 17:14:02 amgarching [~amgarchin@p4FD6248D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:14:22 It applies the given function f and matches (f value) to the pattern. 17:15:02 (out to lunch so be back later) 17:15:03 yeah, just realized it's a transformational pattern 17:15:11 pnkfelix [~pnkfelix@63.249.70.202] has joined #scheme 17:15:18 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-cokzlvoiojrxhzdd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:15:27 it would be nicer if it only matched `x' to `body' once 17:16:49 ddp [~ddp@c75-111-101-191.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #scheme 17:21:01 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:02 Isp-sec [~palach@89-178-52-218.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 17:28:49 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:32:14 -!- ddp [~ddp@c75-111-101-191.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Quit: ddp] 17:32:48 frusen [~frusen@h95-155-216-74.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has joined #scheme 17:32:48 -!- frusen [~frusen@h95-155-216-74.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:32:48 frusen [~frusen@fsf/member/frusen] has joined #scheme 17:33:21 -!- johnny_legs [~sewercake@CPE78cd8ec236c0-CM78cd8ec236bd.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:34:29 silly question maybe but a comma in front of a list just unquotes is same way it unquotes an atom right? 17:34:38 nothing different? 17:35:08 inside a quasi-quotation, yes 17:36:01 thanks 17:36:25 rudybot: eval `(list (+ 1 1) ,(+ 2 2) `(list (+ 3 3) ,(+ 4 4) ,,(+ 5 5) ,(list (+ 6 6) ,(+ 7 7)))) 17:36:25 ski: ; Value: '(list (+ 1 1) 4 `(list (+ 3 3) ,(+ 4 4) ,10 ,(list (+ 6 6) 14))) 17:37:24 only the additions (+ 2 2) , (+ 5 5) and (+ 7 7) got evaluated in there, the others are just interpreted as data, not as expressions to evaluate 17:38:59 meaning you (probably) need to keep track of the "quasi-quotation level", starting at zero outside the initial quasi-quote, incrementing each time you enter a quasi-quote, decrementing each time you enter an unquote. only at level zero do you interpret the forms as expressions to evaluate 17:39:11 also, negative levels is an error 17:39:25 rudybot: eval `(list (+ 1 1) ,(+ 2 2) ,,(+ 3 3)) 17:39:25 ski: error: #:1:25: unquote: not in quasiquote in: (unquote (+ 3 3)) 17:41:36 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:46:33 kwmiebach___ [sid16855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cvpfzbcvwkjzpzcl] has joined #scheme 17:48:00 da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #scheme 17:51:59 -!- da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:59 C_Keen [cckeen@pestilenz.org] has joined #scheme 17:52:01 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 17:53:06 -!- kwmiebach__ [sid16855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zkonhoyfemnfwvjr] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:53:07 -!- C-Keen [cckeen@pestilenz.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:53:42 -!- amgarching [~amgarchin@p4FD6248D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:00:52 Tuplanolla [~Put-on-la@dsl-jklbrasgw2-54f8aa-52.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 18:03:51 -!- zacts [~user@freebsd/lover/zacts] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:05:52 zacts [~zacts@freebsd/lover/zacts] has joined #scheme 18:06:18 SoleSoul [~SoleSoul@109.226.16.254] has joined #scheme 18:06:33 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 18:07:36 -!- mark_weaver is now known as mark_weaver_ 18:08:22 -!- mark_weaver_ is now known as mark_weaver 18:11:24 -!- desanex [~abc@p5DDDF9A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #scheme 18:14:06 desanex [~abc@p5DDDF9A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:14:18 Hi, I'm new to Scheme. Is it true that scheme libraries are tied to a specific Scheme implementation? 18:14:27 Why is that? 18:14:38 I've seen "Snow" but it seems outdated. 18:18:38 SoleSoul: b/c scheme is not a language but a family of languages 18:19:21 samth: But aren't they all built according to the same spec? 18:19:38 SoleSoul: no 18:19:59 samth: I know that some implement more, but are there conflicts? 18:20:06 yes 18:20:14 mm, I didn't know that? 18:20:26 Can you please give me one example so I could read about it? 18:20:32 for one, there a multiple competing standards 18:20:34 *that. 18:20:47 6 and 7? 18:20:50 yes 18:20:52 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #scheme 18:21:07 plus 5 (which several implementations are still on) 18:21:16 like chicken 18:21:22 and gambit 18:21:29 and bigloo 18:21:33 I was expecting libraries for 6 and libraries for 7 but each implementation has its own. 18:21:57 and tbasically every scheme has its own module system, even if it also implements one of the standard module systems 18:22:05 Can I use Chicken's libs with Gambit? 18:22:18 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:22:45 Al-Akir [~nevzets@unaffiliated/nevzets] has joined #scheme 18:23:00 probably no 18:23:22 b/c everything also has lots of implementation-specific facilities that aren't portable or standardized 18:23:28 Does anyone have a good commandline scheme repl? All my implementation do not have things like tab autocomplete or even cycling old commands and navigating with the cursor keys. 18:23:46 Al-Akir: I tried gambit. it is good 18:23:54 it has commands cycling 18:24:03 Al-Akir: Racket does this if you use xrepl 18:24:22 Racket is considered more beginner friendly 18:25:49 What's xrepl in racket? 18:26:39 samth: Can I ask for a recommendation? Do you know if there is an implementation with an easy GUI library (Scheme-like API) and that its deployment doesn't require installing a runtime environment? 18:27:01 rudybot: doc xrepl 18:27:04 samth: your typed/racket sandbox is ready 18:27:21 SoleSoul: I use Racket 18:27:23 Hmm, racket -il xrepl seems satisfactory yes. 18:28:35 samth: Can you "compile" your application so your users wouldn't know that its Scheme underneath? (Just copy and run) 18:28:45 Al-Akir: once you're in xrepl, then the command ',install' will make it permanent 18:28:56 Al-Akir: then you can just run it with 'racket' 18:28:57 -!- Al-Akir [~nevzets@unaffiliated/nevzets] has left #scheme 18:29:03 .. 18:29:08 rudybot: init racket 18:29:17 offby1: i killed it 18:29:18 -!- wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:29:31 SoleSoul: yes, see 'raco exe' and 'raco distribute' 18:30:19 Thanks. Is the size of the executable reasonable? I mean, since it's just bundling an interpreter with the application. 18:30:22 samth: not found in any library's documentation: xrepl 18:30:27 samth: your sandbox is ready 18:30:35 rudybot: (require xrepl) 18:30:37 samth: Done. 18:30:41 rudybot: doc xrepl 18:30:41 samth: not found in any library's documentation: xrepl 18:31:16 SoleSoul: it's fairly large -- but every scheme implemetation is going to have relatively large binaries, since they'll always include the GC and the rest of the runtime 18:32:11 samth: I'll measure that. Lets see what's the size of a minimal Gambit executable. 18:34:35 samth : hm, no option for dynamic linking with main run-time in Racket ? 18:35:06 ski: i believe you can, or at least you could, but it's not so well-supported 18:35:19 and that wouldn't work as well for SoleSoul's use case 18:35:40 oh, i missed that line 18:41:46 -!- desanex [~abc@p5DDDF9A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #scheme 18:44:57 amgarching [~amgarchin@p4FD6248D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:48:25 Does anybody know how to compile with Gambit? I tried gsc-script hello.scm but it produces a .o1 file which segfaults on run. (Gambit's channel is small and quiet) 18:54:02 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:55:06 -!- jxv [~jxv@71-84-192-255.dhcp.wsco.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:56:13 developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 18:56:25 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 18:57:01 samth: it's more resilient than you think :) 18:57:12 dunno why it's occasionally slow. Maybe it's a Racket 6.0 thing. 18:57:51 SoleSoul: i run it like this: gsc -exe -o hello hello.scm 18:58:15 samth: I'm on Linux so -exe will have to be replaced 18:58:23 no, i'm on linux too 18:58:28 try that 18:58:35 ah really? :) I'll try 18:58:38 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:58:40 samth: or it might be that you triggered a lazy compilation of something or other 19:00:57 libgambc.a: No such file or directory. I'm on Archlinux. 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[Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:13:10 nisstyre [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 10:22:06 -!- mrowe is now known as mrowe_away 10:29:35 -!- eni [~eni@AMontsouris-551-1-29-215.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:40:28 Tuplanolla [~Put-on-la@dsl-jklbrasgw2-54f8aa-52.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 10:42:05 abhinav [~abhinav@2001:420:5444:1002:8c0f:a5f8:a353:dda3] has joined #scheme 10:42:40 kuribas [~user@d54C54CAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 10:48:24 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@2001:420:5444:1002:8c0f:a5f8:a353:dda3] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:53:11 eni [~eni@AMontsouris-551-1-29-215.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 11:04:47 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 11:08:09 -!- b4284 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:09:12 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:10:41 wingo,stamourv : there's an interesting distinction that may deserve to be made here : between an error, meaning the program was erroneous; and a fault, meaning the implementation wasn't good enough to evaluate the (possibly perfectly fine) program 11:10:50 some examples of the latter being resource exhaustion as above, and also trapped overflow/underflow for conceptually unbounded arithmetic implemented with fixed-precision 11:11:09 another example is run-time instantiation fault in Prolog : there is a solution, but the implementation doesn't compute it, e.g. because there's conceptually non-countably many solutions; or that it's hard to compute them efficiently; or because there's a only multitude of answers, and the user better confirm they really want to do this 11:11:35 (an alternative to aborting the query here is to raise a condition asking for advice on how to handle the situation, and the user or some advicing code decides to enumerate the solutions after all. it could also decide to impose some extra condition on the solutions, losing completeness, to cut down the number) 11:13:40 -!- aethaeryn is now known as aeth 11:25:45 -!- dpk_ is now known as dpk 11:34:12 -!- desanex [~abc@p54B769DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #scheme 11:35:42 stamourv` [~user@ahuntsic.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 11:46:22 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46:49 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 11:58:59 -!- Tuplanolla [~Put-on-la@dsl-jklbrasgw2-54f8aa-52.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59:58 -!- misv_ [~ms@c-b977e255.033-162-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:00:26 b4283 [~b4283@218-164-123-36.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 12:01:23 misv [~ms@c-b977e255.033-162-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 12:03:58 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #scheme 12:04:06 acarrico 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acarrico tali713 guampa brendyn juanfra hive-mind peterhil asumu Nshag gf3 noam joneshf-work pjdelport balkamos leppie stamourv` effy emma 17:33:44 -!- names: gnomon cmpitg cdidd mornfall stamourv fridim_ `^_^v fikusz mrowe_away haroldwu Giomancer rudybot _8680_ SwashBuckla Natch _5kg_ kwmiebach____ stephe__ gluegadget samth greghendershott inarru misv SHODAN dRbiG aftershave jrslepak aoh Razz shardz waxysubs mmc tessier_ ktos joneshf-laptop janelleb dpk pjb iron_houzi fadein ada2358 kbtr_ jaimef C-Keen duncanm_ pchrist Blkt zacts ohama defanor fizzie ozzloy chromex_ jkraemer xian cosmez twaapo jj2baile sung_ 17:33:44 -!- names: offby1 z0d Kruppe yosafbridge kilimanjaro ctindall pe7ed27 akp ec tsuyoshi cky copec mario-goulart antoszka cmatei amoe chengox_ aeth aap_ arbscht marcoecc marsbot m4burns cratuki ecraven twem2_ tenq|out eMBee edw nicdev poucet clog sethalves aking ski zbigniew felipe certainty Saeren dan64 finnrobi SirDayBat ft cross jyc gabot acieroid dca turbofail ineiros choas Kabaka_ DerGuteMoritz cibs epsylon micro slowpoke 17:38:18 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD61A64.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:41:19 *ijp* shivers at the thought of all those unnecessary thunks 17:49:10 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 17:49:11 -!- taylanub [~taylanub@boostix.gw.tgnet.de] has quit [Quit: Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients] 17:51:40 seantallen [seantallen@nat/theladders/x-soxkvitndoyjyxlq] has joined #scheme 17:53:41 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 17:59:45 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C54CAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:03:03 *offby1* invents a new programming abstraction called the "thwap" 18:04:28 the groucho programming language? 18:04:50 *offby1* invents a new programming abstraction called the "nyuk nyuk nyuk" 18:04:57 the "stooge" programming language 18:18:25 annodomini [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 18:18:25 -!- annodomini [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:18:25 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 18:21:49 ski: i'm writing my own scheme so i don't have do 18:22:25 how about implementing it then ? 18:22:29 ski: is there something clever in PLT to help such as "All iteration loops can be implemented in terms of do"? 18:22:42 i'm a prog lang theory newb fwiw 18:23:23 Note the acronym `PLT' refers to the group that develops Racket, not `programming language theory'. The latter is abbreviated `PL theory'. 18:23:32 k 18:24:01 So PLT Borat is a racket developer? 18:24:19 the best 18:26:59 rudybot: eval (do ((number 100 (if (even? number) (/ number 2) (- number 1))) (numbers (list) (cons number numbers))) ((= 0 number) numbers)) 18:27:00 ski: ; Value: '(1 2 3 6 12 24 25 50 100) 18:30:40 hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-78-94-248-225.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #scheme 18:33:13 -!- round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:43:25 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57922360.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 2014-03-22T14:14:08Z ccl-logbot joined #scheme 2014-03-22T14:14:08Z 2014-03-22T14:14:08Z names: ccl-logbot alexei___ SirDayBat marsbot amoe ineiros Kabaka_ ft iron_houzi hive-mind janelleb aking Saeren cross Nshag ctindall kilimanjaro DerGuteMoritz shardz mario-goulart sethalves choas finnrobi Razz chameco alexei_ noam hiroakip davexunit Tuplanolla civodul jeapostrophe wingo tali713 cibs jaimef jewel nisstyre brendyn contrapumpkin 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Why does case require else, but cond not? 2014-03-23T00:32:30Z vraid: mit scheme says both cond and case can lack an else clause 2014-03-23T00:32:41Z ijp: case seems more ambiguous than cond 2014-03-23T00:33:10Z ijp: should ((a)) match the symbol a and return it, or match anything and call a 2014-03-23T00:33:20Z ijp: in the case of cond, the two cases coincide 2014-03-23T00:34:08Z Tuplanolla: Chicken Scheme doesn't do anything with (a), ((a)) or (((a))) at the end without else. 2014-03-23T00:34:10Z ijp: actually, the (and return it) bit was an arbitrary decision made by me, you could also call it unspecified (in the grand scheme tradition of not making decisions) 2014-03-23T00:35:28Z mrowe_away is now known as mrowe 2014-03-23T00:36:59Z ijp: actually, from a standards point of view (cond ((foo))) is unspecified in the case where (foo) is #f 2014-03-23T00:37:53Z ijp: so it's not really an "else" 2014-03-23T00:37:58Z Tuplanolla: Oh. 2014-03-23T00:38:06Z ijp: rudybot: (define (false) #f) 2014-03-23T00:38:06Z rudybot: ijp: your sandbox is ready 2014-03-23T00:38:06Z rudybot: ijp: Done. 2014-03-23T00:38:12Z ijp: rudybot: (cond ((foo))) 2014-03-23T00:38:12Z rudybot: ijp: error: foo: undefined; cannot reference an identifier before its definition in module: 'program 2014-03-23T00:38:23Z ijp: d'oh 2014-03-23T00:38:27Z ijp: rudybot: (cond ((false))) 2014-03-23T00:38:27Z rudybot: ijp: Done. 2014-03-23T00:38:33Z ijp: rudybot: (list (cond ((false)))) 2014-03-23T00:38:33Z rudybot: ijp: ; Value: '(#) 2014-03-23T00:38:45Z ijp: rudybot: (list (cond (else (false)))) 2014-03-23T00:38:45Z rudybot: ijp: ; Value: '(#f) 2014-03-23T00:39:22Z Tuplanolla: Upon hearing this, the programmer was enlightened. 2014-03-23T00:40:51Z ijp: rudybot: (list (case 'a ((a b c)) (else 3))) 2014-03-23T00:40:51Z rudybot: ijp: error: #:1:15: case: bad syntax (missing expression after datum sequence) at: ((a b c)) in: (case (quote a) ((a b c)) (else 3)) 2014-03-23T00:41:03Z ijp: having that return 'a would 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nisstyre quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-23T10:16:41Z kuribas joined #scheme 2014-03-23T10:21:59Z wingo joined #scheme 2014-03-23T10:22:49Z effy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T10:33:28Z Tuplanolla joined #scheme 2014-03-23T10:36:25Z kuribas quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T10:46:14Z browndawg joined #scheme 2014-03-23T10:47:36Z browndawg: I'm doing SICP on my own. What's a good way to ensure my answers are correct? Any kind of feedback will do. Also following the SICP lectures from 2011 on youtube. 2014-03-23T10:52:11Z tenq- joined #scheme 2014-03-23T10:53:14Z heath quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 2014-03-23T10:53:14Z Kruppe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T10:54:42Z heath joined #scheme 2014-03-23T10:54:53Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T10:54:54Z tenq quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T10:55:00Z Kruppe joined #scheme 2014-03-23T10:55:49Z oleo joined #scheme 2014-03-23T10:57:39Z Okasu joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:00:04Z Tuplanolla: I wouldn't put too much emphasis on getting the right answers. 2014-03-23T11:00:40Z Tuplanolla: You could probably post some of them here though. 2014-03-23T11:06:05Z gravicappa joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:12:26Z matheus23 joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:12:45Z Tuplanolla quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T11:14:36Z alexei___ joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:14:48Z browndawg left #scheme 2014-03-23T11:15:35Z matheus23: Hello, I have a hard time finding good tutorials for define-syntax and syntax-rules... Suppose I matched on (my-list ...) and I want to execute code inside the macro working with this list, for example put in the length of the list as symbol/literal. In other words: How do I write a macro that outputs this code: "5" from this input: "(my-length a b c d)"? 2014-03-23T11:25:09Z stamourv`: matheus23: I recommend http://www.greghendershott.com/fear-of-macros/ 2014-03-23T11:25:18Z cross_ joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:25:43Z stamourv`: If you want to execute code, `syntax-rules' is not enough. 2014-03-23T11:26:04Z stamourv`: You need to look into procedural macros. 2014-03-23T11:26:34Z stamourv`: Most implementations use syntax object-based procedural macros (which the tutorial I liked to is about). 2014-03-23T11:28:15Z ozzloy_ joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:29:50Z oleo quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:50Z Kruppe quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:50Z heath quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:52Z cosmez quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:52Z araujo quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:52Z Nshag quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:53Z Kabaka_ quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:53Z cross quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:54Z evhan quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:56Z defanor quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:56Z ozzloy quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:56Z jkraemer quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:57Z xian quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:58Z ktos quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:29:58Z twem2_ quit (*.net *.split) 2014-03-23T11:32:29Z araujo joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:34:19Z Okasu quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T11:36:43Z ktos joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:37:05Z twem2 joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:37:54Z xian joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:37:55Z jkraemer joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:38:00Z cosmez joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:39:30Z oleo joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:41:16Z evhan joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:41:20Z defanor joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:45:52Z Kruppe joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:45:52Z heath joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:45:56Z Nshag joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:45:57Z matheus23: stamourv`: thanks! 2014-03-23T11:46:08Z heath quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-03-23T11:46:22Z heath joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:49:34Z davexunit joined #scheme 2014-03-23T11:51:35Z alexei___ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-23T11:53:42Z davexunit quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-23T12:04:33Z Kabaka_ joined #scheme 2014-03-23T12:21:50Z pnkfelix quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T12:22:01Z Tuplanolla joined #scheme 2014-03-23T12:34:09Z kuribas joined #scheme 2014-03-23T12:38:32Z Nizumzen quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2014-03-23T12:43:26Z hiroaki joined #scheme 2014-03-23T12:43:45Z hiroakip quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-23T12:56:42Z ebzzry_ joined #scheme 2014-03-23T12:57:13Z hiroaki quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T12:58:53Z davexunit joined #scheme 2014-03-23T13:22:16Z Kruppe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:22:18Z heath quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:22:19Z heath joined #scheme 2014-03-23T13:22:19Z heath quit (Changing host) 2014-03-23T13:22:19Z heath joined #scheme 2014-03-23T13:23:39Z Kruppe joined #scheme 2014-03-23T13:23:52Z heath quit (Excess Flood) 2014-03-23T13:23:59Z heath joined #scheme 2014-03-23T13:24:23Z tenq- is now known as tenq|out 2014-03-23T13:35:23Z fridim_ joined #scheme 2014-03-23T13:42:49Z davexunit quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:45:08Z fridim_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-23T13:48:38Z davexunit joined #scheme 2014-03-23T13:58:44Z matheus23 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-23T14:05:21Z alexei___ joined #scheme 2014-03-23T14:06:22Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2014-03-23T14:18:22Z huangho joined #scheme 2014-03-23T14:19:02Z hiroakip joined #scheme 2014-03-23T14:22:23Z huangho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-23T14:24:21Z heath quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 2014-03-23T14:24:22Z Kruppe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T14:24:35Z Kruppe joined #scheme 2014-03-23T14:27:43Z huangho joined #scheme 2014-03-23T14:28:19Z huangho quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-23T14:29:42Z Kruppe is now known as Guest16035 2014-03-23T14:30:59Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-23T14:33:30Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2014-03-23T14:37:09Z contrapumpkin quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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alexei___ joined #scheme 2014-03-24T09:02:15Z pcoutin: Hello... I'm really new to Scheme... Say I want to parse user: zeze"& and password: pass%42 from a string from HTTP POST (it'd be "user=zeze%22%26&passwd=pass%2542") to return something like '('("user" "zeze\"&") '("passwd" "pass%42")) and return #f if there's some inconsistency... 2014-03-24T09:03:22Z pcoutin: any tips?.. I'd appreciate it. 2014-03-24T09:04:24Z Okasu joined #scheme 2014-03-24T09:04:58Z wingo: pcoutin: what scheme do you use? 2014-03-24T09:05:02Z z0d: you're better off using an HTTP parsing library 2014-03-24T09:05:15Z pcoutin: windo: chicken scheme. 2014-03-24T09:05:22Z pcoutin: wingo: ..^ 2014-03-24T09:05:33Z wingo: i think chicken probably has an egg for that 2014-03-24T09:11:11Z pcoutin: seems like the http-utils will help, thanks 2014-03-24T09:28:44Z zajn quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T09:31:37Z vraid quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T09:37:11Z kobain quit 2014-03-24T09:37:56Z _asc joined #scheme 2014-03-24T09:40:05Z _asc_ quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-24T09:45:53Z tupi` quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-24T09:49:18Z Kneferilis quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T09:51:17Z przl joined #scheme 2014-03-24T09:55:41Z stepnem joined #scheme 2014-03-24T10:03:51Z vraid joined #scheme 2014-03-24T10:04:37Z gravicappa joined 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ZZZzzz…) 2014-03-24T18:54:03Z cmpitg joined #scheme 2014-03-24T18:58:08Z ddp joined #scheme 2014-03-24T18:58:10Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T18:58:26Z ddp quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-24T18:58:36Z duggiefresh joined #scheme 2014-03-24T18:58:37Z ddp joined #scheme 2014-03-24T19:02:38Z Aiwass joined #scheme 2014-03-24T19:03:31Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T19:07:06Z TaylanUB joined #scheme 2014-03-24T19:07:15Z Aiwass quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-24T19:09:54Z ijp is now known as logan5 2014-03-24T19:11:22Z logan5 is now known as ijp 2014-03-24T19:11:55Z mmc1 joined #scheme 2014-03-24T19:13:07Z zajn joined #scheme 2014-03-24T19:16:55Z matheus23: Are there somewhere resources/tutorials on syntax-parse? 2014-03-24T19:17:53Z wilfredh quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-03-24T19:18:57Z samth: matheus23: i recommend http://www.greghendershott.com/fear-of-macros/ 2014-03-24T19:20:48Z matheus23: samth: Yeah. I've read that already. It covers almost everything, except for syntax-parse: http://www.greghendershott.com/fear-of-macros/Robust_macros__syntax-parse.html#%28part._.Using_syntax_parse%29 2014-03-24T19:20:48Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/l3e5z4r 2014-03-24T19:21:18Z samth: matheus23: and you didn't have the same feeling? :) 2014-03-24T19:21:46Z matheus23: samth: ... where can I find the documentation? :) 2014-03-24T19:22:17Z samth: matheus23: http://docs.racket-lang.org/syntax/stxparse.html?q=syntax-parse 2014-03-24T19:22:27Z matheus23: samth: Thanks a bunch! :) 2014-03-24T19:23:07Z greghendershott: matheus23: Oh I should add a link there. 2014-03-24T19:23:33Z matheus23: greghendershott: ôo .. cool to see you here :D your tutorial was a very nice read! :) 2014-03-24T19:24:25Z greghendershott: matheus23: Thanks. I really felt like there wasn't much I could add to the syntax-parse docs. For one thing, it's much better about giving examples. 2014-03-24T19:25:19Z samth: matheus23: the paper about syntax-parse is also good: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/racket/pubs/icfp10-cf.pdf 2014-03-24T19:25:27Z samth: greghendershott: maybe link to that too :) 2014-03-24T19:26:04Z samth: also ryan's dissertation: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/racket/pubs/dissertation-culpepper.pdf 2014-03-24T19:26:33Z greghendershott: samth: Thank you, link-to-paper-bot ;) 2014-03-24T19:26:48Z samth: we should totally implement that 2014-03-24T19:26:51Z samth: rudybot: get on that 2014-03-24T19:26:51Z rudybot: samth: I still didn't manage to get both the list of tab/virtual desktops and the date in my dzen bar, with xmonad… 2014-03-24T19:28:23Z sak_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-24T19:35:41Z chameco joined #scheme 2014-03-24T19:38:13Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-24T19:40:09Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-24T20:13:01Z kobain joined #scheme 2014-03-24T20:16:36Z chameco joined #scheme 2014-03-24T20:20:44Z TaylanUB is now known as taylanub 2014-03-24T20:21:14Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-24T20:21:49Z chameco joined #scheme 2014-03-24T20:22:35Z wingo_ joined #scheme 2014-03-24T20:22:59Z wingo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-24T20:30:39Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2014-03-24T20:30:39Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2014-03-24T20:30:39Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2014-03-24T20:33:03Z przl joined #scheme 2014-03-24T20:33:52Z wingo_ is now known as wingo 2014-03-24T20:38:17Z mario-goulart quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-24T20:39:25Z mario-goulart joined #scheme 2014-03-24T20:41:36Z amgarchIn9 joined #scheme 2014-03-24T20:45:20Z civodul joined #scheme 2014-03-24T20:46:25Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T20:53:17Z davexunit quit (Quit: Later) 2014-03-24T20:55:34Z jewel quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-24T20:55:49Z taylanub quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-24T21:01:36Z taylanub joined #scheme 2014-03-24T21:01:43Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T21:24:34Z groovy2shoes quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-24T21:25:12Z bars0 joined #scheme 2014-03-24T21:34:43Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-24T21:38:36Z masm quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-24T21:40:08Z chameco quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-24T21:47:51Z hiroakip joined #scheme 2014-03-24T21:52:02Z bars0 quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-24T21:55:51Z taylanub quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T21:58:48Z Fare joined #scheme 2014-03-24T22:03:08Z klltkr joined #scheme 2014-03-24T22:15:25Z ccl-logbot joined #scheme 2014-03-24T22:15:25Z 2014-03-24T22:15:25Z names: ccl-logbot Riastradh klltkr hiroakip civodul amgarchIn9 mario-goulart przl jeapostrophe wingo kobain zajn mmc1 ddp cmpitg effy jao vraid tupi` ASau MichaelRaskin fridim_ aftershave Nshag oleo superjudge joneshf-laptop pjb aranhoide theseb BossKonaSegwaY araujo jxv nicdev ebzzry_ matheus23 Tuplanolla acarrico stepnem Okasu pcoutin peted DGASAU bjz haroldwu zacts chengox Natch frkout cataska emma aeth turbofail heath Kruppe Kabaka_ defanor evhan cosmez 2014-03-24T22:15:25Z names: jkraemer xian twem2 ktos ozzloy_ cross_ tenq|out ohama ijp sethalves omefire1 jaimef micro slowpoke epsylon dca acieroid gabot jyc certainty felipe zbigniew ski clog poucet edw eMBee cratuki m4burns aap_ cmatei antoszka copec cky tsuyoshi ec akp yosafbridge z0d offby1 sung_ jj2baile twaapo chromex_ fizzie Blkt pchrist duncanm_ C-Keen kbtr_ ada2358 fadein dpk tessier_ mmc waxysubs aoh jrslepak SHODAN misv inarru greghendershott samth gluegadget stephe__ 2014-03-24T22:15:25Z names: kwmiebach____ _5kg_ _8680_ rudybot Giomancer mrowe fikusz `^_^v stamourv mornfall cdidd gnomon stamourv` leppie balkamos pjdelport gf3 asumu juanfra pyro- githogori LeoNerd joast ivan\ dan64 brendyn cibs tali713 noam Razz finnrobi choas shardz DerGuteMoritz kilimanjaro ctindall Saeren aking janelleb hive-mind ft ineiros amoe SirDayBat Khisanth joneshf-work ecraven arbscht 2014-03-24T22:16:27Z kuribas joined #scheme 2014-03-24T22:22:46Z Fare joined #scheme 2014-03-24T22:24:10Z emma quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-24T22:24:49Z mrowe is now known as mrowe_away 2014-03-24T22:26:50Z jxv is now known as zjxv 2014-03-24T22:27:37Z zacts: ok, so in a week or so I'm going to cover a ch on continuations with scheme from the book 'Scheme and the Art of Programming'. 2014-03-24T22:27:50Z zacts: what are continuations practical for in every day code? 2014-03-24T22:28:29Z ijp: every day? not a lot 2014-03-24T22:28:44Z ijp: early exits usually 2014-03-24T22:29:28Z zacts: hm.. ok. 2014-03-24T22:30:45Z zacts: I'm at 'Data Driven Recursion' now. ch 4. it talks about tree recursion, fib, nested sublists.. stuff that is kind of review for me, but it's interesting nonetheless.. 2014-03-24T22:31:43Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T22:31:45Z REPLeffect joined #scheme 2014-03-24T22:32:24Z turbofail: part of this depends on if you're dealing with delimitd or regular continuations 2014-03-24T22:32:47Z turbofail: delimited continuations are a little bit more useful, but still not that useful in everyday stuff 2014-03-24T22:33:17Z zacts: turbofail: ijp: so early exits? kind of like the equivalent of a kernel panic? 2014-03-24T22:33:25Z ASau` joined #scheme 2014-03-24T22:33:26Z zacts: fail early rather than late? 2014-03-24T22:33:31Z ijp: zacts: break 2014-03-24T22:33:33Z turbofail: not just for failure 2014-03-24T22:33:40Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T22:34:07Z wingo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T22:34:27Z annodomini joined #scheme 2014-03-24T22:34:35Z annodomini quit (Changing host) 2014-03-24T22:34:36Z annodomini joined #scheme 2014-03-24T22:34:36Z zacts: ok. so would this allow something like concurrency? how is concurrency implemented in scheme? 2014-03-24T22:34:53Z ASau` is now known as ASau 2014-03-24T22:35:02Z turbofail: an example of early exit would be something like (call/cc (lambda (return) (for-each (lambda (x) ... (if (done-value? x) (return x))) l))) 2014-03-24T22:35:19Z ijp: it's pretty easy to do cooperative multitasking with continuations, a bit more work to do preemptive 2014-03-24T22:35:34Z turbofail: racket provides call/ec or let-ec for doing the early exit thing, which is more efficient to implement 2014-03-24T22:35:51Z Okasu quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T22:36:52Z ijp: it's a power tool, you don't break it out to hammer some nails 2014-03-24T22:37:00Z zacts: ok 2014-03-24T22:37:14Z zacts: well, I'm sure I'll learn all about it when I get to that chapter. 2014-03-24T22:38:43Z zacts: ok, interesting.. well, afk. reading a bit.. 2014-03-24T22:39:48Z ijp: I probably use cps 10 times for every 1 use of call/cc 2014-03-24T22:43:18Z chromex_ is now known as chromex 2014-03-24T22:43:20Z chromex left #scheme 2014-03-24T22:44:19Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T22:46:20Z turbofail: yeah, me too. though i'm usually working in clojure, so i don't get call/cc 2014-03-24T22:48:51Z copumpkin joined #scheme 2014-03-24T22:49:07Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-24T22:49:38Z tupi` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-24T22:54:34Z stamourv: zacts: COntinuations are also useful for web servers. 2014-03-24T22:54:41Z stamourv: PLAI has a chapter on that, I believe. 2014-03-24T22:55:47Z mrowe_away is now known as mrowe 2014-03-24T22:55:52Z zacts wonders if it would be possible to eventually serve his blog with scheme. 2014-03-24T23:01:11Z ijp: the inverting the inversion trick works more generally. I started writing an ircbot that worked that way 2014-03-24T23:03:16Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-24T23:08:29Z klltkr quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-24T23:12:02Z samth: zacts: it's possible now: https://github.com/greghendershott/frog 2014-03-24T23:15:39Z emma joined #scheme 2014-03-24T23:15:53Z Sgeo joined #scheme 2014-03-24T23:31:30Z pyro-: ijp, what trick is that? 2014-03-24T23:33:18Z guest4968 joined #scheme 2014-03-24T23:33:20Z `^_^v quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-03-24T23:34:23Z ski: zacts : 2014-03-24T23:36:05Z matheus23 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-24T23:40:37Z nisstyre joined #scheme 2014-03-24T23:42:50Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-24T23:44:56Z emma joined #scheme 2014-03-24T23:55:46Z ddp quit (Quit: ddp) 2014-03-25T00:19:12Z tenq|out is now known as tenq 2014-03-25T00:20:49Z cosmez quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T00:22:41Z cosmez joined #scheme 2014-03-25T00:32:35Z cosmez quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T00:39:54Z cosmez joined #scheme 2014-03-25T00:45:09Z cosmez quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-25T00:45:22Z cosmez_ joined #scheme 2014-03-25T00:47:41Z chameco joined #scheme 2014-03-25T00:52:35Z tenq is now known as tenq|out 2014-03-25T00:53:22Z davexunit joined #scheme 2014-03-25T00:56:58Z Tuplanolla quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T00:56:59Z amgarchIn9 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T01:02:02Z tenq|out is now known as tenq 2014-03-25T01:12:51Z cosmez joined #scheme 2014-03-25T01:15:07Z cosmez_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T01:15:14Z aranhoide quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-25T01:16:18Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T01:23:28Z jao joined #scheme 2014-03-25T01:23:31Z jao quit (Changing host) 2014-03-25T01:23:31Z jao joined #scheme 2014-03-25T01:25:27Z sak_ joined #scheme 2014-03-25T01:26:51Z zarul joined #scheme 2014-03-25T01:27:19Z zarul quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-25T01:38:32Z zarul joined #scheme 2014-03-25T01:38:32Z zarul quit (Changing host) 2014-03-25T01:38:32Z zarul joined #scheme 2014-03-25T01:38:55Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T01:47:32Z yacks joined #scheme 2014-03-25T01:50:27Z tenq is now known as tenq|out 2014-03-25T01:53:40Z tenq|out is now known as tenq 2014-03-25T01:56:46Z davexunit quit (Quit: Later) 2014-03-25T01:57:41Z zarul[afk] joined #scheme 2014-03-25T01:58:52Z b4283 joined #scheme 2014-03-25T02:05:25Z annodomini quit (Quit: annodomini) 2014-03-25T02:07:43Z nisstyre quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T02:08:02Z kuribas quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-25T02:10:31Z zarul[afk] quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-25T02:12:22Z frkout_ joined #scheme 2014-03-25T02:16:07Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T02:16:44Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T02:42:51Z nisstyre joined #scheme 2014-03-25T02:44:19Z mmc1 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T02:57:31Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T02:58:27Z oleo joined #scheme 2014-03-25T02:59:59Z theseb quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-25T03:13:44Z frkout_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T03:14:19Z theseb joined #scheme 2014-03-25T03:14:20Z frkout joined #scheme 2014-03-25T03:16:20Z kobain quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-25T03:16:21Z kobain_ joined #scheme 2014-03-25T03:19:27Z phipes joined #scheme 2014-03-25T03:22:38Z tupi` joined #scheme 2014-03-25T03:38:20Z tupi` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T04:08:34Z MichaelRaskin quit (Quit: MichaelRaskin) 2014-03-25T04:12:18Z theseb: what if you don't want to only modify a local version of the variable x but you WANT to modify the version in the global environment? 2014-03-25T04:12:55Z theseb: i.e. what do you do if you want to violate the nice scoping features and truly have global vars? 2014-03-25T04:12:56Z ijp: as a rule "tough", but there are implementation specific hacks 2014-03-25T04:13:07Z vraid quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T04:14:06Z theseb: ijp: i'm trying to implement a while loop using recursion....see this tiny code...http://pastebin.com/PFWvPkdd 2014-03-25T04:14:13Z ijp: (define-syntax-rule (set!! x y) (module-set! (current-module) 'x y)) would work in guile 2014-03-25T04:14:19Z theseb: ijp: all the scoping is not letting it work as I need it to 2014-03-25T04:14:36Z theseb: ijp: i'd rather not resort to such hackery for something as trivial as a while loop 2014-03-25T04:15:09Z ijp: sure, but I typed that out before you mentioned while loops 2014-03-25T04:15:46Z ijp: theseb: of course that doesn't work 2014-03-25T04:16:07Z turbofail: yeah that failure has nothing to do with scope 2014-03-25T04:16:19Z turbofail: that's all about evaluation order 2014-03-25T04:16:20Z ijp: there, while is a function, so it evaluates condition, and more importantly *body* before calling the function 2014-03-25T04:16:50Z theseb: ok that makes sense 2014-03-25T04:16:56Z theseb: so how fix? 2014-03-25T04:17:07Z theseb: add quotes somehow? 2014-03-25T04:17:28Z ijp: quote+eval / macro / thunks 2014-03-25T04:17:37Z ijp: in descending evilness 2014-03-25T04:18:09Z ijp: functions are how we delay evaluation in scheme, so that should be your first port of call 2014-03-25T04:18:42Z ijp: and then you'd pretty it up with a macro later 2014-03-25T04:18:52Z ijp: in this case, jumping straight to macro is not so bad 2014-03-25T04:20:53Z theseb: basically this is another example of something whose has used c and python for 10+ years trying to "think" in lisp 2014-03-25T04:21:06Z theseb: i'm slowly getting over the impedance mismatch 2014-03-25T04:21:10Z phipes quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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Thanks, wingo. 2014-03-25T15:00:16Z Riastradh: Badly... 2014-03-25T15:00:16Z _asc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-25T15:00:19Z wingo: schemes differ quite a lot 2014-03-25T15:00:32Z Riastradh: The POSIX unit seems to have a SET-SIGNAL-HANDLER! procedure, but I have no idea whether it works. 2014-03-25T15:00:41Z wingo: guile just registers that the signal arrived then arranges to dispatch it to the right thread outside of the signal handler 2014-03-25T15:07:07Z amgarchIn9 joined #scheme 2014-03-25T15:16:24Z kuribas quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-25T15:32:58Z tupi joined #scheme 2014-03-25T15:36:14Z aranhoide quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-25T15:41:45Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T15:42:04Z oleo joined #scheme 2014-03-25T15:42:53Z eni quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-25T15:53:18Z amgarchIn9 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-03-25T16:00:21Z BossKonaSegwaY1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-25T16:10:53Z aranhoide joined #scheme 2014-03-25T16:28:37Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T16:35:20Z phipes joined #scheme 2014-03-25T16:38:30Z phipes quit (Client Quit) 2014-03-25T16:45:21Z jxv joined #scheme 2014-03-25T16:46:31Z jewel quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T16:48:43Z b4283 quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-25T17:13:50Z theseb joined #scheme 2014-03-25T17:15:26Z vraid quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T17:15:39Z theseb: guile says this http://pastebin.com/EK0h1JAJ has "ERROR: Syntax error: 2014-03-25T17:15:39Z theseb: unknown location: quote: bad syntax in form quote" 2014-03-25T17:15:42Z theseb: but i don't see it 2014-03-25T17:22:17Z amgarchIn9 joined #scheme 2014-03-25T17:23:08Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T17:26:21Z civodul quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T17:28:14Z mmc1 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-25T17:30:14Z ijp: probably in the set! 2014-03-25T17:31:35Z ijp: guile supports procedures with setters, so the syntax (set! (foo x) y) will call the appropriate setter for foo 2014-03-25T17:31:49Z ijp: there is no such setter for quote 2014-03-25T17:32:16Z ijp: I notice you still don't understand the issue from yesterday 2014-03-25T17:36:35Z MichaelRaskin joined #scheme 2014-03-25T17:50:35Z hiroakip joined #scheme 2014-03-25T17:50:58Z joneshf-laptop quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-25T17:52:20Z civodul joined #scheme 2014-03-25T17:55:40Z vraid joined #scheme 2014-03-25T18:04:07Z jxv quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:05:09Z joneshf-laptop joined #scheme 2014-03-25T18:05:19Z aranhoide quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:05:20Z sak_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:08:30Z aranhoide joined #scheme 2014-03-25T18:14:59Z amgarchIn9 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:17:11Z sak_ joined #scheme 2014-03-25T18:19:56Z pnkfelix quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1) 2014-03-25T18:20:55Z yacks quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:21:23Z przl joined #scheme 2014-03-25T18:21:59Z joneshf-laptop quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:33:02Z theseb: ijp: based on what i learned last nite i made condition be a lambda func and now i pass in vars...i thought that would take care of the issues with vars 2014-03-25T18:33:41Z hive-mind quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:34:44Z sheilong joined #scheme 2014-03-25T18:36:35Z hive-mind joined #scheme 2014-03-25T18:36:48Z theseb: ijp: but i tracked down where the problem is 2014-03-25T18:37:07Z theseb: ijp: i think 2014-03-25T18:37:46Z theseb: it has to do with diff between var and 'var and variable in var, etc. 2014-03-25T18:37:49Z joneshf-laptop joined #scheme 2014-03-25T18:38:46Z theseb: ijp: i'm holding out as long as i can before giving up and moving to a macro :) 2014-03-25T18:46:34Z ijp: first off, variables are not symbols, and symbols are not variables 2014-03-25T18:46:38Z aranhoide quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:47:07Z ijp: secondly, the body still gets evaluated once, and only once, in the while 2014-03-25T18:47:48Z ijp: because, as I said yesterday, it gets evaluated *before* you call the while function, and the return value is what is passed to any recursive calls to while 2014-03-25T18:47:55Z ijp: just like with the condition 2014-03-25T18:48:44Z ijp: rudybot: (define (while condition vars body) (if (condition vars) (begin body (while condition 'vars body)) '())) 2014-03-25T18:48:44Z ijp: 2014-03-25T18:48:45Z rudybot: ijp: Done. 2014-03-25T18:48:47Z theseb: ijp: yea i just caught that :) 2014-03-25T18:49:10Z theseb: ijp: right before you answered...now I quote the argument...(while (lambda (z) (< z 10)) 'x '(begin (modify x (+ x 1)) x)) 2014-03-25T18:49:12Z ijp: rudybot: (while (lambda () #t) #f (display "launch the missiles")) 2014-03-25T18:49:13Z rudybot: ijp: error: #: arity mismatch; the expected number of arguments does not match the given number expected: 0 given: 1 arguments...: #f 2014-03-25T18:49:20Z jao joined #scheme 2014-03-25T18:49:24Z ijp: rudybot: (while (lambda _ #t) #f (display "launch the missiles")) 2014-03-25T18:49:34Z rudybot: ijp: error: with-limit: out of time 2014-03-25T18:49:36Z jao quit (Changing host) 2014-03-25T18:49:36Z jao joined #scheme 2014-03-25T18:49:57Z theseb: ijp: this is a good exercise for a newb like me to juggle 1. symbol, 2. what symbol binds to, 3. symbol bound to that same symbol, etc. 2014-03-25T18:49:58Z ijp: well, it should have displayed "launch the missiles" once 2014-03-25T18:49:59Z theseb: i like it 2014-03-25T18:50:15Z theseb: i have var -> x -> 2 2014-03-25T18:50:23Z theseb: that's 3 levels to sort out 2014-03-25T18:50:28Z theseb: fun stuff 2014-03-25T18:50:29Z ijp: symbols are not variables 2014-03-25T18:50:30Z turbofail: you shouldn't be quoting anything for this 2014-03-25T18:52:43Z ktos quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T18:53:18Z theseb: turbofail: to pass in a symbol instead of the value of the symbol you must quote the symbol no? 2014-03-25T18:53:44Z theseb: ijp: i remember discussing in here before the subtle diff between a symbol and a variable 2014-03-25T18:53:53Z ijp: it's not really subtle 2014-03-25T18:53:55Z turbofail: you can't do anything with the symbol. a symbol is not the right way to interact with variables 2014-03-25T18:54:05Z theseb: ijp: it is hard to shake using the word "variable" since it comes up in math all the time 2014-03-25T18:54:36Z theseb: ijp: plus the definition of variable i think is nonstandard such that it can be warped for everyones needs 2014-03-25T18:54:39Z theseb: i may be wrong 2014-03-25T18:54:51Z ijp: very wrong 2014-03-25T18:55:53Z theseb: similarly....some insist there is a diff between function "arguments" and function "parameters"....that would be fine if EVERYONE used those terms the same 2014-03-25T18:56:19Z ijp: a symbol is an opaque object, represented by a sequence of characters, which is used solely for its identity 2014-03-25T18:56:24Z theseb: ijp: i have no problem with good defs but my point is enough camps using different defs for args and params that they sort of ruined it for everyone 2014-03-25T18:56:25Z oleo: symbols are data structures......think of it as being an object having slots ? 2014-03-25T18:56:38Z turbofail: symbols in scheme have no slots either 2014-03-25T18:56:40Z ijp: a variable is a named value 2014-03-25T18:56:43Z oleo: like function/value 2014-03-25T18:56:47Z oleo: ah 2014-03-25T18:57:02Z oleo: the lisp1 lisp2 distinction... 2014-03-25T18:57:04Z ijp: or rather, a named box that contains a value 2014-03-25T18:57:41Z turbofail: (define (while condition body) (if (condition) (begin (body) (while condition body)) #f)) 2014-03-25T18:58:17Z ijp: theseb: what have you been using to learn scheme? 2014-03-25T18:58:33Z turbofail: (let ((x 0)) (while (lambda () (< x 3)) (lambda () (print "Foo") (set! x (+ x 1))))) 2014-03-25T18:59:12Z turbofail: congratulations, there's a silly imperative loop in scheme. but there's no reason to ever write it that way 2014-03-25T18:59:44Z ktos joined #scheme 2014-03-25T19:00:41Z theseb: ijp: spec and SICP 2014-03-25T19:01:11Z theseb: ijp: but mainly i've been trying to implement my own lisp and trying to learn things the hard way by making mistakes there 2014-03-25T19:01:41Z ijp: have you been doing the exercises? 2014-03-25T19:02:04Z githogori quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-25T19:02:05Z ijp: sicp doesn't cover symbols till chapter two I think? by then you should be more than comfortable with higher order functions 2014-03-25T19:02:27Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2014-03-25T19:02:44Z amgarchIn9 joined #scheme 2014-03-25T19:12:21Z jewel joined #scheme 2014-03-25T19:13:06Z fantazo joined #scheme 2014-03-25T19:23:25Z jewel quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-25T19:23:55Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-25T19:24:02Z wingo quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-25T19:24:09Z jewel joined #scheme 2014-03-25T19:26:18Z wingo joined 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rudybot: later tell jcowan I am sorry to report that http://www.arlo.net/lyrics/alice_flame.shtml is a 404 2014-03-26T04:28:12Z rudybot: *offby1: I asked `MemoServ' to forward the message to jcowan. 2014-03-26T04:28:17Z offby1: rudybot: seen jcowan 2014-03-26T04:28:17Z rudybot: *offby1: jcowan was seen in #scheme three weeks ago, saying "hey hoi", and then jcowan was seen quitting three weeks ago, saying "Ping timeout: 252 seconds" 2014-03-26T04:28:21Z offby1: while we're at it 2014-03-26T04:28:25Z offby1: hmm, three weeks? 2014-03-26T04:36:17Z zjxv quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-26T04:37:36Z joneshf-laptop joined #scheme 2014-03-26T04:37:40Z annodomini quit (Quit: annodomini) 2014-03-26T04:38:32Z fridim_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T04:43:02Z Fare joined #scheme 2014-03-26T04:47:09Z bjz joined #scheme 2014-03-26T05:06:44Z juxovec joined #scheme 2014-03-26T05:10:59Z juxovec quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T05:11:32Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 252 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elderK: Hey guys 2014-03-26T08:06:02Z elderK: I was wondering if any of you happen to be in Auckland, New Zealand? 2014-03-26T08:06:43Z eni joined #scheme 2014-03-26T08:09:39Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-26T08:10:56Z zRecursive left #scheme 2014-03-26T08:14:31Z juxovec joined #scheme 2014-03-26T08:16:49Z wingo joined #scheme 2014-03-26T08:22:30Z taylanub joined #scheme 2014-03-26T08:23:56Z rszeno joined #scheme 2014-03-26T08:38:05Z DGASAU` joined #scheme 2014-03-26T08:38:55Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T08:43:54Z DGASAU` is now known as DGASAU 2014-03-26T08:46:40Z Kneferilis joined #scheme 2014-03-26T08:50:47Z Okasu joined #scheme 2014-03-26T08:55:45Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-26T09:10:49Z rszeno joined #scheme 2014-03-26T09:14:50Z stepnem joined #scheme 2014-03-26T09:18:57Z przl joined #scheme 2014-03-26T09:19:53Z Fare joined #scheme 2014-03-26T09:20:00Z Fare quit (Remote host closed the connection) 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http://tinyurl.com/lokxpmc 2014-03-26T15:10:17Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T15:13:48Z ASau joined #scheme 2014-03-26T15:17:28Z przl joined #scheme 2014-03-26T15:27:09Z sak quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-26T15:27:55Z cross quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T15:39:01Z cross joined #scheme 2014-03-26T15:40:53Z sak joined #scheme 2014-03-26T15:41:08Z joneshf-laptop_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T15:44:32Z Rodya_ joined #scheme 2014-03-26T15:56:26Z nalaginrut quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-26T15:57:01Z joneshf-laptop_ joined #scheme 2014-03-26T16:08:14Z annodomini joined #scheme 2014-03-26T16:08:14Z b4283 quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-26T16:08:14Z annodomini quit (Changing host) 2014-03-26T16:08:14Z annodomini joined #scheme 2014-03-26T16:16:51Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-03-26T16:18:41Z sak quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T16:19:37Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T16:21:21Z 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Weird. 2014-03-26T16:58:59Z zjxv quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-26T17:01:50Z tenq is now known as tenq|out 2014-03-26T17:06:18Z mrowe is now known as mrowe_away 2014-03-26T17:10:58Z strg quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-26T17:12:00Z theseb joined #scheme 2014-03-26T17:23:24Z przl joined #scheme 2014-03-26T17:26:53Z jlongster joined #scheme 2014-03-26T17:29:38Z vraid quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T17:30:02Z ASau joined #scheme 2014-03-26T17:30:44Z mmc1 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-26T17:30:46Z jaimef quit (Excess Flood) 2014-03-26T17:37:52Z b4283 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T17:38:38Z jaimef joined #scheme 2014-03-26T17:38:44Z duggiefresh joined #scheme 2014-03-26T17:41:46Z mmc1 joined #scheme 2014-03-26T17:43:56Z wingo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-26T17:47:07Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2014-03-26T17:48:21Z taylanub quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-26T17:55:41Z zjxv joined #scheme 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(Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-27T04:59:08Z zRecursive: i donot understand why #haskell so active ?! 2014-03-27T05:03:51Z nisstyre: zRecursive: because people are enamored with monads for some reason 2014-03-27T05:04:45Z ijp: it wasn't so busy years ago, but someone finally forced all the questions to be answered 2014-03-27T05:08:41Z oleo joined #scheme 2014-03-27T05:09:35Z zRecursive: There is a lambdabot which is so powerful ! 2014-03-27T05:10:02Z zRecursive: It is completely a remote REPL :) 2014-03-27T05:10:17Z Guest55547 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T05:11:00Z nisstyre: zRecursive: rudybot is just as good 2014-03-27T05:11:16Z zRecursive: yeah 2014-03-27T05:11:27Z ijp: rudybot: nobody appreciates a lazy evaluation joke 2014-03-27T05:11:28Z rudybot: ijp: thank you, atleast someone who appreciates some colour in their lives instead of the boredom that succumbs the bored, dull minds.... 2014-03-27T05:11:37Z ijp: word 2014-03-27T05:29:59Z gravicappa joined #scheme 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You should see my basement! 2014-03-27T21:34:33Z samth: Riastradh: since I have Amazon prime, I think I'm now competing 2014-03-27T21:38:23Z Riastradh: (I'm kidding. The boxes in my basement aren't actually mine.) 2014-03-27T21:38:35Z Riastradh: (Hmm, that sounded sketchy, didn't it?) 2014-03-27T21:41:50Z Okasu quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-27T21:42:20Z samth: Riastradh: ha 2014-03-27T21:46:35Z Averell joined #scheme 2014-03-27T21:48:48Z developernotes quit 2014-03-27T21:50:50Z matheus23 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T21:55:18Z offby1: are the body parts yours? 2014-03-27T21:58:41Z nisstyre joined #scheme 2014-03-27T22:11:08Z zajn quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T22:21:07Z zajn joined #scheme 2014-03-27T22:29:55Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-27T22:30:05Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-27T22:39:57Z alexei quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-27T22:51:31Z jao` quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T22:52:00Z wingo_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-27T22:55:37Z juxovec_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-27T22:55:58Z juxovec joined #scheme 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using -target js? 2014-03-28T00:52:33Z Tuplanolla quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T01:06:05Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T01:23:18Z jao` joined #scheme 2014-03-28T01:23:21Z jao` quit (Changing host) 2014-03-28T01:23:21Z jao` joined #scheme 2014-03-28T01:24:05Z davexunit quit (Quit: Later) 2014-03-28T01:26:04Z zacts quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-28T01:27:12Z zacts joined #scheme 2014-03-28T01:27:21Z jao` is now known as jao 2014-03-28T01:30:38Z juxovec joined #scheme 2014-03-28T01:33:37Z garietyxxx quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T01:35:18Z juxovec quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-28T01:46:37Z Nizumzen joined #scheme 2014-03-28T01:48:38Z huangho quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T01:52:07Z zajn quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T01:55:12Z huangho joined #scheme 2014-03-28T02:02:58Z duggiefresh joined #scheme 2014-03-28T02:05:40Z b4283 joined #scheme 2014-03-28T02:07:42Z huangho quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 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(Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T09:57:09Z zjxv quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T09:57:53Z wilfredh joined #scheme 2014-03-28T10:00:17Z cbsw quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-28T10:04:42Z juxovec quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T10:05:36Z przl joined #scheme 2014-03-28T10:16:29Z Tuplanolla quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-28T10:20:43Z wingo_ is now known as wingo 2014-03-28T10:23:31Z vraid joined #scheme 2014-03-28T10:26:23Z mornfall joined #scheme 2014-03-28T10:30:57Z arbscht quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T10:37:12Z Tuplanolla joined #scheme 2014-03-28T10:37:41Z frkout joined #scheme 2014-03-28T10:38:07Z frkout_ joined #scheme 2014-03-28T10:40:05Z ZombieChicken: anyone have anything to say about the racket interpreter? 2014-03-28T10:40:13Z ZombieChicken: at least compared to guile or something else 2014-03-28T10:42:03Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-28T10:44:34Z arbscht joined #scheme 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runs, it makes quite a ... 2014-03-28T13:56:30Z Riastradh: Your wit, offby1! It is as incisive as a tennis racquet. Will you be here all night? 2014-03-28T13:56:49Z omefire1 joined #scheme 2014-03-28T13:57:29Z ijp: wokka wokka 2014-03-28T13:57:59Z fridim_ joined #scheme 2014-03-28T14:00:02Z gravicappa joined #scheme 2014-03-28T14:02:11Z oleo: hello 2014-03-28T14:02:18Z juxovec quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T14:09:05Z asc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T14:10:22Z houzi joined #scheme 2014-03-28T14:11:14Z asc joined #scheme 2014-03-28T14:11:15Z offby1: Riastradh: I will as long as you all keep tipping the waitress 2014-03-28T14:12:36Z hiroakip joined #scheme 2014-03-28T14:19:20Z hiroakip quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-28T14:25:00Z asc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-28T14:28:29Z effy_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-28T14:31:04Z houzi: How can I create a wrapper function for (foo bar . args) so that I can do this: (bar foo . args) ? My problem is that . args is passed to the wrapper function as a list, but I want a string of elements not enclosed in a list.. 2014-03-28T14:31:08Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T14:31:39Z Riastradh: apply 2014-03-28T14:31:44Z houzi: s/string/sequence 2014-03-28T14:32:03Z houzi: Riastradh: OK. I'll investigate into apply 2014-03-28T14:32:22Z vraid: rudybot: (apply + (list 1 2 3)) 2014-03-28T14:32:23Z rudybot: vraid: error: default-load-handler: cannot open module file module path: typed path: /mnt/racket-6.0/share/pkgs/typed-racket-more/typed/main.rkt system error: No such file or directory; errno=2 2014-03-28T14:32:26Z vraid: oh :( 2014-03-28T14:32:55Z Riastradh: You broke it! 2014-03-28T14:33:09Z vraid: rudybot: #lang racket 2014-03-28T14:33:10Z rudybot: vraid: "don't specify enything" is unclear. If you're talking about running `mzscheme foo' and having some scheme code in `foo' without a `#lang' line or a `module' -- then in that case mzscheme will just throw an error. 2014-03-28T14:33:10Z Riastradh: offby1, you'll have to clean up the mess, I'm afraid. Hope there aren't too many sticky bits. 2014-03-28T14:33:23Z vraid: rudybot: lang racket 2014-03-28T14:33:23Z rudybot: vraid: #lang scheme is reader syntax for a (module ...) that syntactically wraps the remainder of the file. 2014-03-28T14:33:46Z vraid: can i switch to use not typed/racket, which seems to cause the problem? 2014-03-28T14:34:05Z ijp: init 2014-03-28T14:34:09Z vraid: rudybot: init 2014-03-28T14:34:09Z rudybot: vraid: error: default-load-handler: cannot open module file module path: typed path: /mnt/racket-6.0/share/pkgs/typed-racket-more/typed/main.rkt system error: No such file or directory; errno=2 2014-03-28T14:34:12Z vraid: rudybot: init racket 2014-03-28T14:34:13Z rudybot: vraid: your sandbox is ready 2014-03-28T14:34:19Z vraid: rudybot: (apply + (list 1 2 3)) 2014-03-28T14:34:19Z rudybot: vraid: ; Value: 6 2014-03-28T14:34:27Z vraid: ijp: ah great, thanks 2014-03-28T14:40:07Z langmart` is now known as langmartin 2014-03-28T14:42:48Z houzi: Riastradh: Sorry, but I fail to see how apply can pass all arguments of one n-ary function to another n-ary function. 2014-03-28T14:43:10Z houzi: ..I fail to see how apply can be used to get this result ^^ .. 2014-03-28T14:44:51Z Riastradh: rudybot: eval (begin (define (swap f x y . r) (apply f y x r)) (swap list 0 1 2 3)) 2014-03-28T14:44:51Z rudybot: Riastradh: your sandbox is ready 2014-03-28T14:44:51Z rudybot: Riastradh: ; Value: '(1 0 2 3) 2014-03-28T14:45:08Z pjb: (define (n . args) (apply f args)) 2014-03-28T14:45:08Z pjb: 2014-03-28T14:46:17Z pjb: (define (p . args) (if (not (null? args)) (begin (display (car args)) (newline) (apply p (cdr args))))) (p 1 2 3) 2014-03-28T14:46:18Z stepnem quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net) 2014-03-28T14:49:09Z houzi: Thank you so much! 2014-03-28T14:51:24Z Okasu quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-03-28T14:56:50Z stamourv joined #scheme 2014-03-28T14:58:01Z seantallen joined #scheme 2014-03-28T14:59:05Z mmc1 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-28T15:01:26Z juxovec joined #scheme 2014-03-28T15:02:21Z tenq is now known as tenq|out 2014-03-28T15:04:57Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T15:05:17Z twem2 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-28T15:06:17Z juxovec quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-28T15:10:57Z twaapo: how would you go on sorting a list of lists based on sum of list elements? 2014-03-28T15:11:30Z twaapo: like ((1000 1) (235 5)) > ((235 5) (1000 1)) 2014-03-28T15:12:00Z C-Keen: twaapo: write a comparison procedure then sort the list with that 2014-03-28T15:12:43Z twaapo: brain keeps twisting with this functional stuff 2014-03-28T15:13:53Z C-Keen: twaapo: ok, first determine the rank of a given list 2014-03-28T15:14:08Z C-Keen: (rank is a name I just made up) 2014-03-28T15:14:50Z visualshock joined #scheme 2014-03-28T15:15:01Z stamourv: rudybot: (sort < '((1 2 3) (4 5 6) (7 8 9)) #:key (lambda (l) (apply + l))) 2014-03-28T15:15:03Z rudybot: stamourv: your typed/racket sandbox is ready 2014-03-28T15:15:04Z rudybot: stamourv: error: Type Checker: Summary: 3 errors encountered 2014-03-28T15:15:11Z stamourv: rudybot: init racket 2014-03-28T15:15:11Z rudybot: stamourv: your sandbox is ready 2014-03-28T15:15:14Z stamourv: rudybot: (sort < '((1 2 3) (4 5 6) (7 8 9)) #:key (lambda (l) (apply + l))) 2014-03-28T15:15:14Z rudybot: stamourv: error: sort: contract violation expected: list? given: # 2014-03-28T15:15:25Z stamourv: rudybot: (sort '((1 2 3) (4 5 6) (7 8 9)) < #:key (lambda (l) (apply + l))) 2014-03-28T15:15:25Z rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: '((1 2 3) (4 5 6) (7 8 9)) 2014-03-28T15:15:33Z twem2 joined #scheme 2014-03-28T15:15:34Z stamourv: twaapo: ^ 2014-03-28T15:15:48Z C-Keen: now someone has no homework anymore 2014-03-28T15:16:02Z stamourv: Oops. My bad. 2014-03-28T15:16:30Z mmc1 joined #scheme 2014-03-28T15:16:36Z twaapo: C-Keen: no worries, thats like 100th of this task :) 2014-03-28T15:16:41Z twaapo: been at it for 2 days now 2014-03-28T15:16:47Z twaapo: a bit exhausted 2014-03-28T15:17:45Z twaapo: this is for fixing my own picky functions 2014-03-28T15:17:53Z twaapo: so called duct tape :o 2014-03-28T15:20:12Z pjb: twaapo: r5rs doesn't have a sort function. Do you use a library, do you write your own sort function, or do you use another scheme? 2014-03-28T15:20:38Z twaapo: damn, didnt run it yet 2014-03-28T15:20:42Z twaapo: r5rs here 2014-03-28T15:20:55Z pjb: ok, so do you use a library or do you write your own sort? 2014-03-28T15:20:56Z twaapo: writing of the sort function is the problem 2014-03-28T15:21:06Z pjb: What algorithm do you want to use? 2014-03-28T15:21:24Z twaapo: no matter 2014-03-28T15:21:55Z twaapo: lists have 1 to 6 integers, 1-8 of them in a list 2014-03-28T15:22:22Z pjb: ok. But what matters is that you want to separate concerns. You want to design your sort function so that it's able to sort anything. Therefore it takes as parameter, a less? function, and optionnaly a key function. See eg. http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-95/srfi-95.html 2014-03-28T15:22:26Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T15:22:46Z twaapo: just numbers, sort by sum of them 2014-03-28T15:22:54Z pjb: (sort list-of-list-of-numbers < sum-of-list-of-numbers) 2014-03-28T15:23:17Z przl joined #scheme 2014-03-28T15:23:19Z pjb: So now you just define the function (sum-of-list-of-numbers list-of-numbers) --> sum 2014-03-28T15:25:28Z seantallen quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2014-03-28T15:26:25Z Tuplanolla quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-03-28T15:29:10Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2014-03-28T15:31:16Z mmc1 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-28T15:35:42Z visualshock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-28T15:47:10Z houzi quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-03-28T15:53:35Z eni joined #scheme 2014-03-28T16:05:34Z zarul joined #scheme 2014-03-28T16:05:34Z zarul quit (Changing host) 2014-03-28T16:05:34Z zarul joined #scheme 2014-03-28T16:07:57Z eni quit (Remote host closed the connection) 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I expect to leave there only feet-first. 2014-03-29T03:09:59Z offby1: didja know that arlo.net is no longer hosting the Usenet Flame? I was very sad. 2014-03-29T03:10:05Z offby1: Big fat 404. 2014-03-29T03:11:12Z jcowan: Some lawyer probably told him to yank all the lyrics, and mine went down with the rest. 2014-03-29T03:12:40Z juxovec joined #scheme 2014-03-29T03:12:52Z jcowan: In better news, I am employed once more 2014-03-29T03:12:54Z juxovec quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T03:13:40Z offby1: that is indeed better news 2014-03-29T03:14:07Z offby1: does "R7RS Editor" on your resume help, or does nobody know what that means? 2014-03-29T03:14:59Z Riastradh: `XML standard editor' probably means more... 2014-03-29T03:15:13Z offby1: huh, I'd forgotten about that. 2014-03-29T03:15:36Z offby1: Much as I dislike XML, I like our own jcowan, and Tim Bray is one of my favorite bloggers. What does that tell us? 2014-03-29T03:16:15Z jcowan: It tells us abusus non tollit usum. 2014-03-29T03:16:31Z offby1: *sigh* 2014-03-29T03:16:37Z offby1: rudybot: t8 la en abusus non tollit usum 2014-03-29T03:16:37Z rudybot: *offby1: does not preclude the use of 2014-03-29T03:16:45Z offby1: makin' us Murrikens look iggerant 2014-03-29T03:17:01Z jcowan: If Scheme had been as hyped up and abused as XML you'd probably hate it too. 2014-03-29T03:17:07Z offby1: probably 2014-03-29T03:17:31Z jcowan: I thought I was making us Merkins look smart. 2014-03-29T03:17:41Z offby1: on net it's a wash 2014-03-29T03:17:58Z jcowan chuckles 2014-03-29T03:18:43Z jcowan: I'm trying to decide where to put filter/remove/partition and any?/every? procedures. Do they belong with map/for-each/fold, or with size/count ? 2014-03-29T03:18:50Z jcowan: (in writing a SRFI, that is) 2014-03-29T03:19:28Z offby1: being an ignoramus, I will report that my gut says: the latter 2014-03-29T03:19:50Z offby1: map/for-each certainly are s'posed to return as many items in the output as in the input ... 2014-03-29T03:19:54Z offby1: fold, not so much ... 2014-03-29T03:19:58Z jcowan: Also, does unfold belong with fold, or with the constructors? 2014-03-29T03:19:58Z offby1: but size/count, surely not. 2014-03-29T03:20:35Z jcowan: I assume your gut is talking about filter/remove/partition rather than about any?/every?. 2014-03-29T03:20:57Z offby1: yes. 2014-03-29T03:21:14Z annodomini quit (Quit: annodomini) 2014-03-29T03:21:28Z offby1: my gut has also had some MacAllan's recently. Fair warning. 2014-03-29T03:21:35Z offby1: If it weren't for dabbrev-expand, I couldn't type at all. 2014-03-29T03:21:36Z Riastradh: Writing a SRFI to replace SRFI 1? 2014-03-29T03:22:04Z Riastradh: I would put filter/remove/partition with map/for-each and any/every with size/count. 2014-03-29T03:22:20Z Riastradh: offby1, I bet you have a dabbrev expansion for that remark about dabbrev-expand. 2014-03-29T03:22:27Z jcowan: No, editing the set SRFI and the hash table pre-SRFI. 2014-03-29T03:22:44Z Riastradh: Oh, so that's what size is. 2014-03-29T03:22:53Z offby1: Riastradh: I do now :-) 2014-03-29T03:22:54Z Riastradh: I was wondering but my fingers got ahead of me as I repeated it. 2014-03-29T03:23:31Z jcowan: The ancient Persians always discussed a new policy twice, once drunk (to lower inhibitions) and once sober (for better judgment). 2014-03-29T03:23:32Z b4283 joined #scheme 2014-03-29T03:23:57Z offby1: brilliant! 2014-03-29T03:25:23Z jcowan: I once asked esr if he had an F-key for "Yet another lump of generic Trekfic sludge." He admitted that he didn't but he should. 2014-03-29T03:26:43Z Riastradh: Now if only we could drug the lobbyists, too, maybe with something a little more potent than alcohol... 2014-03-29T03:28:51Z jao joined #scheme 2014-03-29T03:28:54Z jao quit (Changing host) 2014-03-29T03:28:55Z jao joined #scheme 2014-03-29T03:32:26Z peted quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T03:37:10Z zajn joined #scheme 2014-03-29T03:43:01Z peted joined #scheme 2014-03-29T03:50:40Z peted quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-29T03:52:21Z peted joined #scheme 2014-03-29T04:06:30Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T04:09:49Z annodomini joined #scheme 2014-03-29T04:21:25Z jcowan quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-29T04:22:56Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T04:27:19Z annodomini quit (Quit: annodomini) 2014-03-29T04:30:00Z annodomini joined #scheme 2014-03-29T04:30:00Z noobboob joined #scheme 2014-03-29T04:30:08Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-29T04:35:46Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-29T04:36:03Z annodomini quit (Quit: annodomini) 2014-03-29T04:37:30Z yacks joined #scheme 2014-03-29T04:46:43Z gravicappa joined #scheme 2014-03-29T05:06:30Z annodomini joined #scheme 2014-03-29T05:11:23Z REPLeffect quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T05:14:16Z kobain joined #scheme 2014-03-29T05:20:14Z jxv quit (Quit: QUIT) 2014-03-29T05:24:28Z REPLeffect joined #scheme 2014-03-29T05:38:18Z kobain quit 2014-03-29T05:41:37Z zacts: lo 2014-03-29T05:51:43Z noobboob: hello 2014-03-29T05:58:33Z huangho quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T05:58:34Z zacts: I'm toatlly bored right now. 2014-03-29T06:06:08Z noobboob: that's not good, you should be depressed 2014-03-29T06:06:32Z zacts: noobboob: yeah, but I'm getting better now that I'm back in emacs. 2014-03-29T06:06:57Z zacts: I'm trying to implement tail recursion in emacs with pure elisp. 2014-03-29T06:07:05Z noobboob: pssh 2014-03-29T06:07:18Z noobboob: im trying to start a website with it 2014-03-29T06:07:20Z zacts: so, how does scheme _recognize_ an iterative recursive function definition? 2014-03-29T06:07:30Z zacts: noobboob: with scheme or elisp? 2014-03-29T06:07:37Z noobboob: racket 2014-03-29T06:07:53Z zacts: noobboob: I'm wanting to reimplement my blog with scheme, currently it uses perl's mojolicious. 2014-03-29T06:07:59Z zacts: http://zacts-blog.herokuapp.com 2014-03-29T06:08:51Z noobboob: id like to see lisp languages used more than just for blogs 2014-03-29T06:09:04Z zacts: noobboob: me also.. 2014-03-29T06:09:25Z noobboob: the only tutorial i found for racket was how to create your own blog... 2014-03-29T06:09:28Z noobboob: the official one 2014-03-29T06:09:32Z annodomini quit (Quit: annodomini) 2014-03-29T06:09:42Z zacts: noobboob: what kind of websites do you envision? 2014-03-29T06:09:56Z noobboob: i envision mvc 2014-03-29T06:10:00Z zacts: yeah a static blog isn't that interesting codewise. 2014-03-29T06:12:11Z noobboob: actually you can create dynamic blog with new posts 2014-03-29T06:12:42Z b4284 joined #scheme 2014-03-29T06:13:20Z ijp: think big, guys 2014-03-29T06:13:36Z b4283 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-29T06:14:20Z Riastradh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T06:14:32Z zacts: ijp: lol 2014-03-29T06:14:56Z zacts: ijp: how does scheme recognize if a recursive definition is iterative? 2014-03-29T06:15:04Z ijp: it doesn't 2014-03-29T06:15:12Z zacts: I want to do a late night boredom proof of concept elisp tail recursion 2014-03-29T06:15:38Z guampa quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T06:16:07Z ijp: as for tail calls, they are determined by, and this is the brilliant bit, looking for calls in the tail position 2014-03-29T06:16:44Z zacts: heh, ok. 2014-03-29T06:17:17Z zacts: (defun translate-defun (function) ...) 2014-03-29T06:17:34Z guampa joined #scheme 2014-03-29T06:17:45Z annodomini joined #scheme 2014-03-29T06:18:12Z ijp: last expression within the body of a lambda, both sides of an if if the if is in tail position, last one of an and/or/begin/let* if they are in a tail position, etc. 2014-03-29T06:18:33Z ijp: inductive definition is pretty straightforward 2014-03-29T06:19:32Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2014-03-29T06:19:49Z zacts: so if tail recursion is so simple, why doesn't emacs do this? 2014-03-29T06:20:11Z zacts: is there a technical / historical reason for this? 2014-03-29T06:21:07Z wingo joined #scheme 2014-03-29T06:23:32Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T06:25:37Z defanor: zacts: looks like there are some technical reasons: "While recursion works in Emacs Lisp just like it does in Common Lisp, various details of the Emacs Lisp system and compiler make recursion much less efficient than it is in most Lisps". plus, i suspect that recursion could lead to a confusion with dynamic scoping 2014-03-29T06:26:34Z ijp: zacts: consider (defun foo () (let ((x (* x 2))) (foo))) 2014-03-29T06:26:43Z zacts: oh, interesting.. 2014-03-29T06:26:44Z ijp: in scheme, that let is a no-op 2014-03-29T06:26:57Z ijp: in emacs, not so, because of dynamic scoping 2014-03-29T06:26:59Z zacts: ok, the let is shorthand for a lambda right? 2014-03-29T06:27:41Z zacts: like an embedded lambda, I can't remember at the moment. my mind is fuzzy on coffee. 2014-03-29T06:28:18Z zacts: ijp: so in elisp let is an actual op? it's not a shorthand for a lambda or whatever? 2014-03-29T06:28:40Z zacts: I guess I mean, all lets in scheme can be written with pure lambdas? 2014-03-29T06:30:53Z ijp: even if it was, it wouldn't matter 2014-03-29T06:31:03Z zacts: sorry, I'm just getting back into scheme again, I'm trying to remember. 2014-03-29T06:31:09Z ijp: the x is kept around to be undone later 2014-03-29T06:32:12Z ijp: the equivalent in scheme is (define (foo) (parameterize ((x (+ (x) 2))) (foo))) 2014-03-29T06:32:22Z ijp: (where x is a parameter) 2014-03-29T06:35:28Z zacts: ok 2014-03-29T06:35:58Z zacts: ijp: sicp ch 1.3.2 using let to create local variables explains this 2014-03-29T06:36:15Z zacts: that let is syntactic sugar for what can be done with pure lambdas. 2014-03-29T06:36:29Z zacts: and that let in scheme is a special form, not an operator. 2014-03-29T06:38:16Z zacts: ok bbiab 2014-03-29T06:40:20Z annodomini quit (Quit: annodomini) 2014-03-29T06:56:57Z ccl-logbot joined #scheme 2014-03-29T06:56:57Z 2014-03-29T06:56:57Z names: ccl-logbot aftershave wingo Riastradh guampa b4284 REPLeffect gravicappa yacks noobboob peted zajn Sgeo waxysubs taylanub robot-beethoven BossKonaSegwaY Natch scape_ oleo vraid fridim__ MichaelRaskin ASau zacts zarul twem2 stamourv fridim_ omefire1 arbscht rudybot _5kg mornfall wilfredh ijp defanor heathjs finnrobi bjz dpk Averell bars0 amoe certainty|vacati joneshf-laptop SHODAN `^_^v emma mmc _8680_ Saeren haroldwu cibs tali713 brendyn micro slowpoke 2014-03-29T06:56:57Z names: epsylon dca acieroid gabot jyc felipe zbigniew ski clog poucet edw eMBee cratuki aap_ antoszka copec cky tsuyoshi ec z0d offby1 sung_ jj2baile twaapo Blkt pchrist duncanm_ C-Keen kbtr_ fadein tessier_ aoh jrslepak misv inarru greghendershott samth gluegadget stephe__ kwmiebach____ Giomancer mrowe_away fikusz cdidd stamourv` leppie balkamos pjdelport gf3 asumu juanfra LeoNerd ivan\ dan64 Razz choas shardz DerGuteMoritz kilimanjaro ctindall aking janelleb 2014-03-29T06:56:57Z names: ft ineiros SirDayBat Khisanth ecraven sethalves ohama tenq ozzloy_ xian jkraemer evhan Kabaka_ turbofail cataska pcoutin Nshag mario-goulart copumpkin fizzie pjb m4burns akp cmatei nicdev yosafbridge ada2358_ pyro- DGASAU aeth hive-mind blackwolf Kneferilis cross jaimef ffs ZombieChicken joast Kruppe ktos cmpitg 2014-03-29T07:02:22Z b4284 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-29T07:19:01Z b4284 joined #scheme 2014-03-29T07:19:37Z zajn quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-03-29T07:19:37Z stis joined #scheme 2014-03-29T07:20:04Z zajn joined #scheme 2014-03-29T07:20:25Z zacts: ok, I think I have discovered a platonic essense of scheme from reading sicp. 2014-03-29T07:21:02Z zacts: the primary means of controlling complexity with scheme is abstraction. and we abstract things to closely resemble their perfect platonic forms as closely as possible. 2014-03-29T07:21:59Z zacts is an effing genius. 2014-03-29T07:22:24Z juxovec joined #scheme 2014-03-29T07:24:11Z juxovec quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T07:24:48Z juxovec joined #scheme 2014-03-29T07:25:16Z zajn quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-29T07:27:34Z superjudge joined #scheme 2014-03-29T07:31:37Z zacts: ok so for some serious questions.. I'm reading my scheme book. 2014-03-29T07:31:38Z yacks quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T07:33:06Z zacts: I'm still a newbie sort of, but what kinds of structures are possible. so far I only know of atoms, flat lists, and tree recursive structures. 2014-03-29T07:33:25Z zajn joined #scheme 2014-03-29T07:33:34Z zacts: and data abstraction, which can be implemented with pure procedures. 2014-03-29T07:34:17Z zacts: so I guess procedures and recursion, are all you essentially need in a language, and then the ability to abstract things? hmm.. I need to learn lambda calculus 2014-03-29T07:34:37Z zacts: or, will learning lambda calculus even be worthwhile? 2014-03-29T07:35:53Z zacts: my question: can any type of data be represented by a recursive treelike structure? 2014-03-29T07:36:21Z defanor: it's worthwhile, i think. it'll help to understand Scheme better, as well as some other things/languages if you'll decide to learn them later 2014-03-29T07:36:29Z zacts: oh nice.. 2014-03-29T07:36:34Z yacks joined #scheme 2014-03-29T07:39:09Z zacts: oh, and how is a hash table represented in scheme? 2014-03-29T07:39:19Z zacts: is it a tree like structure? 2014-03-29T07:39:47Z zacts: I'm not to the point of knowing how hash tables are implemented.. 2014-03-29T07:39:59Z defanor: it's a primitive in implementations, i suspect, but could be done via association list 2014-03-29T07:40:24Z defanor: (which will not be a *hash* table though) 2014-03-29T07:40:38Z defanor: oh, or it could be. but will be quite pointless 2014-03-29T07:40:49Z zacts: defanor: how are hash tables usually implemented? 2014-03-29T07:41:10Z zacts: I'm trying to understand data abstraction in a practical sense. 2014-03-29T07:41:20Z defanor: an array, a hash function mapping keys to array indexes, and so on 2014-03-29T07:41:52Z ijp: and a few different ways to do collision resolution 2014-03-29T07:42:23Z ijp: vector of alists is probably the simplest way 2014-03-29T07:42:24Z zacts: ok, what do hash table selectors look like? 2014-03-29T07:42:41Z zacts: ijp: luckily my current scheme book will cover vectors soon 2014-03-29T07:42:54Z ijp: sicp barely covers vectors 2014-03-29T07:43:10Z zacts: ijp: no this is 'Scheme and the Art of Programming' by Daniel P. Friedman 2014-03-29T07:43:18Z ijp: it's a small bit in chapter 5 for dealing with memory 2014-03-29T07:44:03Z zacts: ijp: and what is your secret to reading so many books so quickly? you posted your reading list a couple days ago. Do you speed read? 2014-03-29T07:45:03Z zacts: SAOP more throughouly covers vectors and continuations 2014-03-29T07:45:37Z zacts: I assume that is friedmans specialty based on his papers. Continuations. 2014-03-29T07:46:26Z zacts: oh sweet! 2014-03-29T07:46:50Z zacts: I looked in the index of SAOP, and it has an entire section on how hash tables work, and how they are implemented. 2014-03-29T07:47:09Z zacts: I'll save my hash table questions for now.. 2014-03-29T07:47:17Z ijp: I don't think of myself as reading particularly fast. 2014-03-29T07:47:49Z ijp: I aim for one a week, say a typical novel is 300 pages, then that works out at ~40 a day 2014-03-29T07:48:14Z zacts: oh I see, from a glance it seemed you were reading sicpish gebish books one per week 2014-03-29T07:48:35Z zacts: but now that iirc you mentioned it took you three years to read sicp. 2014-03-29T07:49:20Z ijp: zacts: novels I read more sequentially; technical books race each other like plants in the amazon 2014-03-29T07:50:02Z juxovec quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-03-29T07:52:38Z zacts: the only frustration I have with scheme so far, is that many of the examples seem like baby scheme, like toy implementations, SAOP is better about this. 2014-03-29T07:53:43Z zacts: you know, I think I'll make a game with davexunits 2d game kit. 2014-03-29T07:54:02Z zacts: as a first project.. you really can learn a ton from games, I guess. 2014-03-29T07:54:27Z juxovec joined #scheme 2014-03-29T07:54:51Z zacts: like I know how to abstract data to create an illusion of rational numbers as fractions. 2014-03-29T07:55:29Z zacts: but to abstract data in a real program, and _design_ that abstraction so that modifying one part of the program won't effect thousands of procedures using that part of the program. 2014-03-29T07:56:08Z zacts: that's where I feel I'm at. I understand the concept of data abstraction, but lack the practical experience on how to design abstractions in a practical sense. 2014-03-29T07:56:45Z zacts: ijp: what kinds of programming projects have you worked on? (if I may ask). 2014-03-29T07:58:26Z ijp: I'm not a programmer 2014-03-29T07:59:13Z zacts: ok 2014-03-29T07:59:27Z juxovec quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T07:59:49Z Sgeo_ joined #scheme 2014-03-29T08:03:35Z Sgeo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T08:10:38Z leppie quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-03-29T08:12:33Z matheus23 joined #scheme 2014-03-29T08:15:46Z mmc1 joined #scheme 2014-03-29T08:22:30Z noobboob quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-03-29T08:27:39Z zajn quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T08:28:04Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-29T08:28:56Z zRecursive joined #scheme 2014-03-29T08:55:54Z leppie joined #scheme 2014-03-29T08:57:52Z wilfredh quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-03-29T09:17:51Z visualshock joined #scheme 2014-03-29T09:59:35Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T10:00:45Z arbscht quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T10:07:27Z 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annodomini joined #scheme 2014-03-29T14:54:10Z juxovec quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T14:54:36Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T14:54:55Z alexei_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T14:56:18Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-03-29T14:58:16Z alexei_ joined #scheme 2014-03-29T15:04:08Z b4284 quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-29T15:04:32Z juxovec joined #scheme 2014-03-29T15:04:42Z juxovec quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T15:11:05Z b4283 joined #scheme 2014-03-29T15:15:36Z b4283 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-29T15:22:01Z frkout joined #scheme 2014-03-29T15:23:32Z sethalves: he is a Software Artist. 2014-03-29T15:25:22Z pjdelport: surely if you program, you're a programmer 2014-03-29T15:25:50Z pjdelport: whether it's for fun, art, or work 2014-03-29T15:28:55Z matheus23 joined #scheme 2014-03-29T15:32:11Z b4283 joined #scheme 2014-03-29T15:38:47Z juxovec joined #scheme 2014-03-29T15:39:09Z alexei_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T15:44:31Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T15:49:18Z juxovec quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T15:49:28Z alexei_ joined #scheme 2014-03-29T15:52:36Z juxovec_ joined #scheme 2014-03-29T15:59:28Z ijp: I'm a computation afficionado 2014-03-29T16:07:10Z juxovec_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-29T16:09:07Z juxovec joined #scheme 2014-03-29T16:12:21Z pjb: pjdelport: no, there are people who write programs who aren't programmers. 2014-03-29T16:12:29Z pjb: I've met quite a number of them. 2014-03-29T16:12:34Z pjb: Rather dangerous, IMO. 2014-03-29T16:12:36Z pjdelport: haha 2014-03-29T16:12:41Z pjdelport: true 2014-03-29T16:14:22Z juxovec quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-29T16:17:16Z wilfredh joined #scheme 2014-03-29T16:20:28Z tupi joined #scheme 2014-03-29T16:27:57Z juxovec joined #scheme 2014-03-29T16:29:38Z b4283 quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-03-29T16:31:10Z hiroakip joined #scheme 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#scheme 2014-03-29T18:07:23Z ANGRYSTEVE: :( 2014-03-29T18:08:03Z ijp: does it make you angry? 2014-03-29T18:08:35Z ANGRYSTEVE: yes 2014-03-29T18:09:04Z davexunit: hello ANGRYSTEVE 2014-03-29T18:09:13Z ANGRYSTEVE: so my course is using Emacs 2014-03-29T18:09:41Z ANGRYSTEVE: can I use vim? 2014-03-29T18:09:50Z ANGRYSTEVE: http://users-cs.au.dk/danvy/dProgSprog13/Lecture-notes/emacs.html 2014-03-29T18:10:27Z davexunit: ANGRYSTEVE: well, probably, but things will be more difficult for you. 2014-03-29T18:10:43Z ANGRYSTEVE: oh 2014-03-29T18:10:44Z ANGRYSTEVE: okay 2014-03-29T18:10:56Z davexunit: vim doesn't provide the type of interactive environment that make Emacs so suitable for interacting with Lisp/Scheme REPLs. 2014-03-29T18:11:04Z ijp: ooh danvy, nice 2014-03-29T18:11:16Z ANGRYSTEVE: he's known? 2014-03-29T18:12:37Z ijp: ANGRYSTEVE: I doubt that using vim is going to affect your grade or learning experience in any way 2014-03-29T18:12:51Z ANGRYSTEVE: I don't wanna learn a new text editor 2014-03-29T18:13:05Z sethalves: ANGRYSTEVE -- i switch between vi and emacs pretty often. emacs is better enough for scheme that I would recommend learning it 2014-03-29T18:13:06Z ijp: so don't 2014-03-29T18:13:09Z offby1: angry steve is angry 2014-03-29T18:13:42Z ijp: turn in your work on time, and don't draw pictures of penises in the middle of class, and you'll be fine 2014-03-29T18:14:04Z ANGRYSTEVE: well okay 2014-03-29T18:14:05Z offby1: ijp: also he shouldn't relieve himself on the teacher's desk -- I find that puts one's grade at risk 2014-03-29T18:14:08Z ANGRYSTEVE: what exactly is SLIME 2014-03-29T18:14:20Z sethalves: but yeah... ijp is right. vi should be sufficient 2014-03-29T18:14:23Z offby1: ANGRYSTEVE: a very old system for emacs that supposedly makes it work nicely with lis[ 2014-03-29T18:14:25Z offby1: l i s p 2014-03-29T18:14:38Z offby1: ANGRYSTEVE: although in practice it never actually works 2014-03-29T18:14:42Z ijp: lol 2014-03-29T18:15:26Z ANGRYSTEVE: so learn Emacs 2014-03-29T18:15:33Z ijp: I hear they have finally decided to start making releases 2014-03-29T18:15:44Z offby1: ijp: no wai 2014-03-29T18:16:21Z offby1: ANGRYSTEVE: if you're serious about computers, then you _must_ know at least one of vi or emacs; ideally you'd know at least a bit about both. I'm more of an emacs-head, but can use vi for simple stuff if I have to 2014-03-29T18:16:30Z sethalves: ANGRYSTEVE -- learning emacs is annoying at first, but quickly becomes exhilarating. 2014-03-29T18:16:56Z offby1: ANGRYSTEVE: I'd say that it's somewhere between "annoying" at first and "totally f***ing crazy". 2014-03-29T18:17:09Z ijp: vim is a fine text editor, but a lousy doctor 2014-03-29T18:17:16Z offby1: The main problem is that it's unbelievably old, and insists on doing everything in it's weird early-80s way. 2014-03-29T18:17:24Z offby1: i t s 2014-03-29T18:17:59Z ANGRYSTEVE: okay 2014-03-29T18:18:02Z ANGRYSTEVE: I don't mind learning it 2014-03-29T18:18:05Z ANGRYSTEVE: it's just that if vim can do it 2014-03-29T18:18:06Z offby1: that's good. 2014-03-29T18:18:08Z ANGRYSTEVE: then I'll use that 2014-03-29T18:18:09Z offby1: Well ... 2014-03-29T18:18:17Z offby1: you can certainly edit scheme code with vim 2014-03-29T18:18:26Z ANGRYSTEVE: but it apparently can't run the interpreter 2014-03-29T18:18:32Z offby1: But as someone said: emacs has more cool stuff for interacting with a REPL than vim does 2014-03-29T18:18:32Z ANGRYSTEVE: or something like that 2014-03-29T18:18:37Z offby1: yeah 2014-03-29T18:18:42Z ijp: if you've used readline, you are already familiar with a bunch of emacs commands anyway 2014-03-29T18:19:16Z sethalves: take the time to move your control key to home-row. heh 2014-03-29T18:19:24Z offby1: ANGRYSTEVE: one thing that might be worthwhile: find someone who knows emacs, and sit next to them for 15 minutes or so while they work, to see what's possible. You might be surprised at how quickly they can do certain things. 2014-03-29T18:19:43Z sethalves: the truth is that people who are good with vim can be just as effective 2014-03-29T18:19:45Z ANGRYSTEVE: I've seen my TA use it pretty fast 2014-03-29T18:20:15Z ANGRYSTEVE: he moved control to home-row 2014-03-29T18:20:27Z sethalves: it will keep your hand from getting all snarled up 2014-03-29T18:20:42Z ANGRYSTEVE: no one uses caps lock anyways :P 2014-03-29T18:21:04Z sethalves: whatever, ANYWAYS 2014-03-29T18:21:12Z sethalves: err whatever, ANGRYSTEVE 2014-03-29T18:21:29Z ANGRYSTEVE: the thing that annoys me is the clipboard 2014-03-29T18:21:30Z sethalves: see, i wasn't using caps there and attempted to have emacs finish the word for me 2014-03-29T18:21:31Z ANGRYSTEVE: even with vim 2014-03-29T18:22:26Z ANGRYSTEVE: I copied something from my browser 2014-03-29T18:22:28Z sethalves: which os do you sit in front of? 2014-03-29T18:22:28Z ANGRYSTEVE: ctrl-y doesn't work 2014-03-29T18:22:34Z ANGRYSTEVE: Arch Linux 2014-03-29T18:22:44Z ijp crosses self 2014-03-29T18:22:44Z sethalves: are you running an X version or running emacs in a shell window? 2014-03-29T18:22:56Z ANGRYSTEVE: x version 2014-03-29T18:22:58Z ANGRYSTEVE: emacs -nw 2014-03-29T18:23:05Z sethalves: that's in a shell 2014-03-29T18:23:08Z sethalves: try without the -nw 2014-03-29T18:23:08Z ANGRYSTEVE: oh 2014-03-29T18:23:17Z sethalves: -nw means No Window 2014-03-29T18:23:35Z ANGRYSTEVE: as long it doesn't open the ugly gtk thing 2014-03-29T18:23:38Z sethalves: emacs will open its own window, and the clipboard will infuriate you in an entirely new way 2014-03-29T18:23:51Z sethalves: because... there are two of them! 2014-03-29T18:23:55Z offby1: ANGRYSTEVE: Shift+Insert might work to paste 2014-03-29T18:24:02Z sethalves: and you can never till which one you're using until it's too late! 2014-03-29T18:24:03Z ANGRYSTEVE: yes, it did 2014-03-29T18:24:09Z offby1: it depends on what terminal program you're using :-( 2014-03-29T18:24:21Z ANGRYSTEVE: urxvt 2014-03-29T18:24:21Z offby1: sometimes the middle mouse button works 2014-03-29T18:24:28Z offby1: ANGRYSTEVE: good, urxvt is probably the best. 2014-03-29T18:24:32Z sethalves: ctrl-y will work if emacs has its own window 2014-03-29T18:24:37Z offby1: back when I used *nix, that's what I used. 2014-03-29T18:24:37Z ANGRYSTEVE: alright 2014-03-29T18:24:40Z ijp quit (Quit: This ijp has ended peacefully) 2014-03-29T18:24:54Z ANGRYSTEVE: alt-v works for me too 2014-03-29T18:24:54Z offby1: sethalves: I think you still have to fiddle some variable or other to make it work right. 2014-03-29T18:24:59Z ANGRYSTEVE: got the perl extension :) 2014-03-29T18:25:19Z sethalves: offby1 -- nah, stock emacs will pull from the clipboard with ctrl-y 2014-03-29T18:25:23Z offby1: sethalves: (setq x-select-enable-clipboard t) was required up until emacs 24.1 2014-03-29T18:25:36Z offby1: sethalves: and many distros don't yet have that version. 2014-03-29T18:25:37Z sethalves: oh... right. i guess i'm not sure which version i'm using 2014-03-29T18:26:34Z offby1: for _years_ I had that expression in my .emacs, with a comment saying "Why The F*** Isn't This The Default?!" 2014-03-29T18:27:20Z ANGRYSTEVE: hmm, I gotta set an alias for emacs 2014-03-29T18:27:36Z sethalves: if you're using it correctly, you don't run it often. 2014-03-29T18:28:08Z sethalves: i start and exit vi a lot. i run emacs once and leave it up 2014-03-29T18:28:19Z jewel joined #scheme 2014-03-29T18:28:20Z ANGRYSTEVE: offby1, urxvt really annoys me because of that stupid unicode thing 2014-03-29T18:28:31Z ANGRYSTEVE: usually I used ctrl-shift-v to paste 2014-03-29T18:28:37Z ANGRYSTEVE: I can't do that in urxvt 2014-03-29T18:29:15Z ANGRYSTEVE: I even set URxvt.iso14755: false 2014-03-29T18:29:19Z ANGRYSTEVE: ald _52: false 2014-03-29T18:29:22Z ANGRYSTEVE: and* 2014-03-29T18:29:36Z ANGRYSTEVE: so my paste is set to alt-v :S 2014-03-29T18:30:05Z sethalves: to be comfortable, I need the key under the "x" key to be meta 2014-03-29T18:30:20Z sethalves: alt-v is paste under osx, but it's page-up in emacs 2014-03-29T18:30:45Z ANGRYSTEVE: it still pastes stuff 2014-03-29T18:30:46Z ANGRYSTEVE: for me 2014-03-29T18:31:04Z sethalves: it will be worth your time getting the meta key to work 2014-03-29T18:31:21Z ANGRYSTEVE: oh man 2014-03-29T18:31:31Z ANGRYSTEVE: so my perl script is conflicting with emacs 2014-03-29T18:31:50Z sethalves: good thing you're leaning scheme 2014-03-29T18:31:55Z sethalves: *learning 2014-03-29T18:31:55Z ANGRYSTEVE: -is conflicting +conflicts 2014-03-29T18:32:43Z ANGRYSTEVE: so the link I provided earlier 2014-03-29T18:33:05Z ANGRYSTEVE: I'm using that in my .emacs file 2014-03-29T18:33:20Z ANGRYSTEVE: anything else to add? 2014-03-29T18:33:21Z offby1: ANGRYSTEVE: the only "Unicode thing" I know of that relates to urxvt is that it can properly display Unicode characters, whereas many other terminal programs cannot 2014-03-29T18:33:42Z ANGRYSTEVE: well, it won't let me use ctrl-shift-v to paste 2014-03-29T18:33:49Z sethalves: hm I don't think C-x-s is correctly short of C-x C-s in emacs-land 2014-03-29T18:34:04Z offby1: it's been a long time since I used it, so I no longer remember the details. 2014-03-29T18:34:08Z offby1: Good riddance, I say 2014-03-29T18:34:39Z ANGRYSTEVE: URxvt.keysum.M-c: perl:clipboard:copy 2014-03-29T18:34:56Z ANGRYSTEVE: is C-S-c ctrl-shift-c? 2014-03-29T18:35:02Z sethalves: yes 2014-03-29T18:35:10Z ANGRYSTEVE: yeah not working 2014-03-29T18:35:41Z sethalves: run emacs in its own window. 2014-03-29T18:35:49Z sethalves: it will let you avoid a whole series of annoyances 2014-03-29T18:36:09Z ANGRYSTEVE: so avoid -nw? 2014-03-29T18:36:12Z sethalves: yes 2014-03-29T18:36:27Z ANGRYSTEVE: it's ugly 2014-03-29T18:36:40Z sethalves: hide the menus etc. you don't need them 2014-03-29T18:37:37Z sethalves: put (menu-bar-mode -1) (scroll-bar-mode -1) in .emacs 2014-03-29T18:37:49Z hiroakip joined #scheme 2014-03-29T18:37:52Z wilfredh quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-03-29T18:38:19Z sethalves: (tool-bar-mode -1) 2014-03-29T18:38:31Z sethalves: you can make it just a bare window 2014-03-29T18:39:29Z sethalves: throw (line-number-mode t) in there too 2014-03-29T18:39:34Z ANGRYSTEVE: oh yes 2014-03-29T18:40:07Z ANGRYSTEVE: perfect 2014-03-29T18:40:59Z sethalves: do you have chez on your local system or is it on some other machine? 2014-03-29T18:41:17Z ANGRYSTEVE: my own 2014-03-29T18:41:29Z sethalves: okay. then I wont tell you about tramp 2014-03-29T18:42:04Z ANGRYSTEVE: lmao 2014-03-29T18:42:06Z ANGRYSTEVE: this guid 2014-03-29T18:42:09Z ANGRYSTEVE: guide* 2014-03-29T18:42:09Z ANGRYSTEVE: (setq scheme-program-name "C:/path/to/petite") 2014-03-29T18:42:09Z ANGRYSTEVE: (load-file "C:/path/to/scheme-setup.el") 2014-03-29T18:42:12Z ANGRYSTEVE: windows file path 2014-03-29T18:46:01Z Okasu joined #scheme 2014-03-29T18:46:30Z ANGRYSTEVE: I wonder if I can just write petite 2014-03-29T18:47:00Z ANGRYSTEVE: where do you guys usually keep .el files 2014-03-29T18:47:15Z sethalves: you'll get many answers to that 2014-03-29T18:47:20Z offby1: ANGRYSTEVE: mine are in ~/.emacs.d 2014-03-29T18:47:29Z offby1: ANGRYSTEVE: you know there's an #emacs channel. 2014-03-29T18:47:32Z ANGRYSTEVE: sounds reasonable 2014-03-29T18:47:33Z ANGRYSTEVE: yeah 2014-03-29T18:47:34Z ANGRYSTEVE: sure 2014-03-29T18:47:41Z ANGRYSTEVE: fine :( 2014-03-29T18:47:50Z scape_: if you're on windows it's different 2014-03-29T18:47:55Z sethalves: he's configuring emacs for use in his scheme class 2014-03-29T18:48:07Z sethalves: i think he's okay here 2014-03-29T18:48:33Z offby1: I'm not trying to make ANGRYSTEVE shut up; I just wanted him to know there's another place that might have better answers 2014-03-29T18:48:54Z ANGRYSTEVE: seems like the majority here uses emacs, no? 2014-03-29T18:48:57Z scape_: I sometimes do this: (add-to-list 'load-path "some/path") and then (require 'myelfile) 2014-03-29T18:49:27Z offby1: ANGRYSTEVE: many, sure; but I don't know about "the majority" 2014-03-29T18:49:39Z davexunit: maybe try to limit the questions here to programming Scheme with Emacs, and you can consult #emacs for the general stuff? 2014-03-29T18:49:54Z scape_: then go to emacs-lisp in menu and evaluate the buffer for init.el where you made changes 2014-03-29T18:50:30Z ANGRYSTEVE: too many things 2014-03-29T18:50:31Z ANGRYSTEVE: I'll try 2014-03-29T18:53:28Z chameco quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-29T18:57:27Z scape_: I was hoping to write a small game in scheme using sdl, and mostly target mobile (so android at least, maybe ios) and have come to the conclusion gambit is likely good for this. Am I overlooking any other implementations? guile comes up but getting it installed seemed more complicated for some reason. I really enjoy racket but as of now there doesn't seem much push for mobile dev 2014-03-29T18:58:13Z davexunit: for mobile, gambit is the only implementation I can think of that will work. 2014-03-29T18:58:15Z scape_: though I did cross-compile racket for android, I have no idea what to do from there :-\ 2014-03-29T18:58:17Z davexunit: especially for spyOS 2014-03-29T18:58:39Z davexunit: maybe guile could run on android, but I haven't seen it done so you'd have some exploring to do. 2014-03-29T18:59:21Z scape_: okay, thanks. i'll skip on the exploring I think :) tho guile-2d looks promising 2014-03-29T18:59:52Z davexunit: glad you think so :) 2014-03-29T19:00:00Z davexunit: (I wrote that) 2014-03-29T19:00:05Z scape_: oh! :D 2014-03-29T19:00:20Z scape_: saw the frp post on reddit, really like where it's going 2014-03-29T19:00:40Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:01:11Z davexunit: scape_: thanks! still much work to be done so that it's usable by people that aren't me. 2014-03-29T19:01:28Z scape_: though, from what I thought I read, guile-2d is sdl 1.x and not 2.0; any specific reason why? or did I misread that? 2014-03-29T19:01:30Z alexei_ joined #scheme 2014-03-29T19:01:44Z davexunit: scape_: because sdl 2.0 bindings aren't available for guile... yet. 2014-03-29T19:02:04Z tenq|out is now known as tenq 2014-03-29T19:02:06Z scape_: I see 2014-03-29T19:02:22Z scape_: one last question :) why guile over gambit? 2014-03-29T19:02:36Z davexunit: but... https://gitorious.org/guile-sdl2/guile-sdl2/ is a new project of mine. 2014-03-29T19:03:35Z scape_: cool 2014-03-29T19:03:37Z davexunit: not much there yet, but eventually there will be a full binding. 2014-03-29T19:03:54Z davexunit: I chose guile because it's the official extension language of the GNU project. 2014-03-29T19:04:14Z davexunit: and I really liked the emacs integration via geiser. 2014-03-29T19:04:29Z scape_: ah, ok :) 2014-03-29T19:05:14Z davexunit: I haven't tried gambit personally, but it seems cool, too. 2014-03-29T19:05:40Z scape_: it's ok. emacs integration leaves much to be desired :\ 2014-03-29T19:06:38Z scape_: the lack of minibuffer is annoying 2014-03-29T19:06:55Z wilfredh joined #scheme 2014-03-29T19:09:26Z davexunit: guile and racket are both awesome to work with via emacs 2014-03-29T19:11:55Z jewel quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:20:29Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:21:56Z oleo joined #scheme 2014-03-29T19:28:33Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-03-29T19:36:17Z aftershave quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2014-03-29T19:36:41Z aftershave joined #scheme 2014-03-29T20:02:19Z alexei_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-29T20:07:22Z hiroakip joined #scheme 2014-03-29T20:15:36Z alexei_ joined #scheme 2014-03-29T20:34:48Z annodomini quit (Quit: annodomini) 2014-03-29T20:35:51Z annodomini joined #scheme 2014-03-29T20:35:51Z annodomini quit (Changing host) 2014-03-29T20:35:51Z annodomini joined 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timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-03-30T15:14:28Z fridim_ joined #scheme 2014-03-30T15:14:48Z fridim__ joined #scheme 2014-03-30T15:28:20Z hiroakip quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-30T15:29:06Z defanor quit (Quit: giving up on this server) 2014-03-30T15:29:45Z jxv joined #scheme 2014-03-30T15:30:17Z defanor joined #scheme 2014-03-30T15:31:06Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2014-03-30T15:45:00Z heathjs is now known as heath 2014-03-30T15:48:01Z karswell quit (Read error: Operation timed out) 2014-03-30T15:50:42Z karswell joined #scheme 2014-03-30T15:54:31Z atomx joined #scheme 2014-03-30T15:55:08Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T15:55:50Z atomx: is there a way for the upper level of repl no more display the "Value #NNN:", only if I want ? 2014-03-30T15:57:11Z scape_: anyone use lambdanative sdk? i'm curious about the experience 2014-03-30T15:58:09Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2014-03-30T15:58:09Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2014-03-30T15:58:09Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2014-03-30T15:58:26Z atomx: no bot on this channel ? 2014-03-30T15:58:51Z ijp: which implementation does that? 2014-03-30T16:00:19Z atomx: ? 2014-03-30T16:00:36Z ijp: atomx: not every implementation exhibits that behaviour 2014-03-30T16:01:20Z atomx: ah ! MIT-scheme 2014-03-30T16:01:53Z atomx: I use xscheme in emacs, and connect the mit-scheme via inf process 2014-03-30T16:03:50Z karswell joined #scheme 2014-03-30T16:04:07Z atomx: http://www.gnu.org/software/mit-scheme/documentation/mit-scheme-user/The-Prompt-and-Level-Number.html 2014-03-30T16:04:07Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/ny6lwgp 2014-03-30T16:04:22Z atomx: here is a picture with a common situation 2014-03-30T16:04:33Z atomx: (in fact a demo, not a pic) 2014-03-30T16:04:53Z atomx: but they don;t say how to toggle off the prompt 2014-03-30T16:05:44Z davexunit quit (Quit: Later) 2014-03-30T16:07:23Z davexunit joined #scheme 2014-03-30T16:12:44Z kobain joined #scheme 2014-03-30T16:19:44Z alexei_ joined #scheme 2014-03-30T16:30:08Z fridim__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T16:30:08Z fridim_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-03-30T16:34:41Z asumu joined #scheme 2014-03-30T16:49:49Z jxv quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-03-30T16:50:31Z HG` joined #scheme 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It's way close to being done though. sorry for the wait.. 2014-03-31T07:16:26Z zacts: zRecursive: I think you can still test it out in the meantime by installing it into a local dir ~/guile perhaps and adding it to your path. 2014-03-31T07:16:50Z zacts: but if you run on i386 you will need a patch for it 2014-03-31T07:17:09Z zacts: but amd64 should work fine. 2014-03-31T07:17:53Z zRecursive: it is i386 here 2014-03-31T07:18:10Z zRecursive: zacts: thanks for your work 2014-03-31T07:18:29Z zacts: zRecursive: let me pastebin the patch for you then. 2014-03-31T07:18:36Z zRecursive: ok 2014-03-31T07:19:11Z zRecursive: it is better to make it `pkg` installable 2014-03-31T07:20:01Z zRecursive: pkg is very convenient in freebsd now 2014-03-31T07:20:03Z zacts: yeah, but that's what my port will do, this is just a way for you to try it until then 2014-03-31T07:21:06Z zRecursive: `pkg search guile` => guile-1.8.8 now 2014-03-31T07:23:01Z zRecursive: zacts: i have to leave now, see you later 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