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[~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 03:21:26 Victorutsc [~victor@d72-39-0-252.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #scheme 03:22:07 hi, is CPS considered a recursion ?? 03:22:27 no 03:22:34 i have homework q thats asking to implement something using non-recursive currying 03:22:43 you can use CPS with recursion, or without 03:22:48 so would CPS fit the bill? 03:23:08 i'm not sure what "non-recursive currying" refers to 03:23:20 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:23:32 also, i'm not sure what CPS would have much to do with any kind of currying 03:23:51 im trying to avoid recursion by doing CPS 03:24:05 currying is someting else, nvm it 03:25:11 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:43:33 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:49:30 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has quit [Quit: MichaelRaskin] 03:52:26 oxum [~oxum@122.164.46.163] has joined #scheme 03:58:51 ddp [~ddp@c75-111-101-191.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #scheme 04:00:14 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:02:22 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 04:03:25 -!- chengox [chengox@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:03:36 chengox [chengox@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:08:40 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08:57 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 04:20:34 _danb_ [~user@203.29.131.142] has joined #scheme 04:33:04 Victorutsc : i don't think you really can avoid recursion by CPS -- at least not in any easy way 04:33:26 Victorutsc : however, you *could* avoid non-tail-recursion, by CPS and tail-recursion 04:33:44 (where "tail-recursion" is basically the same as iteration) 04:34:08 my job is to implement (filter) non-recusively. i still think continuations are a key, somehow 04:34:32 i dont see how else it can be done without HOPs 04:34:50 -!- arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 04:36:38 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:37:52 what's the exact wording of the question? 04:38:14 Define a non-recursive curried version of folder. 04:38:18 *fold 04:38:22 Thats it. 04:38:33 oops, i mean FOLD 04:38:46 sorry, FILTER 04:38:51 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 04:38:56 been doing homework all day :) 04:39:43 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:39:49 i dont need a ready to eat solution, i want to know if im working in the right direction 04:39:50 huh. i don't know how you could possibly do that without at least using tail-recursion 04:40:21 unless you do something silly like use the Y-combinator 04:40:48 i'm not even sure i would count that as being "non-recursive" 04:43:41 -!- ebzzry_ [~ebzzry@112.204.28.168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:46:48 ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.204.28.168] has joined #scheme 04:52:32 CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has 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[~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 16:25:52 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:26:40 ijp [~user@host86-185-210-145.range86-185.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 16:27:40 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 16:32:19 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #scheme 16:35:48 oxum_ [~oxum@122.164.150.90] has joined #scheme 16:36:31 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.250.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:36:32 -!- oxum_ is now known as oxum 16:37:16 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #scheme 16:38:34 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 16:43:55 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:53:26 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:43 b4283 [~b4283@1-175-240-63.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 16:56:59 I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around how to interpret nested quasiquotes 16:57:12 e.g. `(3 `4 `(5 6)) 16:57:24 I'm guessing the `4 turns into ''4? 16:57:33 Well, that example has no unquotes, so it's equivalent to simply '(3 '4 '(5 6)) 16:57:33 what about the `(5 6) ? 16:58:31 LeoNerd: wait...`(5 6) by *itself* would be the same as (list '5 '6) 16:58:51 LeoNerd: so why does it deserve to be interpreted in your example as '(5 6)? 17:01:52 you say to-may-to, LeoNerd says to-mah-to 17:05:24 ijp: not sure what that means but i'll roll with it 17:05:29 rudybot: `3 17:05:30 theseb: your sandbox is ready 17:05:30 theseb: ; Value: 3 17:05:37 WE CAN ASK RUDYBOT! 17:05:50 rudybot: `(3 5) 17:05:50 theseb: ; Value: '(3 5) 17:06:32 theseb: both (list '5 '6) and '(5 6) evaluate to the same list 17:07:02 well, in theory, the former could be evaluated each time by the implementation 17:07:40 (list 5 6) is also the same list fwiw 17:07:58 of course 17:13:04 ijp: oh no you right.....this is that (brain damaged?) way racket does things 17:13:18 oh here we go 17:13:28 rudybot: `(4 `(5 7)) 17:13:28 theseb: ; Value: '(4 `(5 7)) 17:22:54 well, no 17:24:23 I should clarify that the "quasiquote with no unquote" ~ quote only really works at the "top" 17:24:47 inside of a quote or a quasiquote (but not unquoted), they are not the same 17:26:16 because then you wouldn't be quoting, you'd be changing the form 17:27:51 explaining it makes it seem more confusing than it really is 17:33:32 jao` [~jao@123.165.14.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 17:33:35 -!- jao` [~jao@123.165.14.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Changing host] 17:33:35 jao` [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 17:44:57 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has joined #scheme 17:47:14 ijp: you gave me an idea i think helps a lot....unless there are commas (unquotes)...you can understand quasiquotes as if they were quotes right? 17:47:32 ijp: if that is true then problem solved...now i just need to understand unquotes perfectly and i'm done 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When it's off, ` and ' lose their special meaning, so they can't be equivalent anymore because they're simply different symbols.) 19:42:15 -!- wingo [~wingo@37.162.105.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:46:16 xb 19:46:19 oops sorry 19:47:30 rudybot: how should we punish DerGuteMoritz for his transgression? 19:47:30 ijp: of course. And because I personally happen to prefer speaking English, which makes me notice the American transgression very clearly, I'm not going to accept the view that it's not substantially different to warrant the distinction. Which coincides pretty nicely with the national borders in this case 19:47:31 Lose Control? :-) 19:48:12 *mario-goulart* does that all the time 19:50:12 hehehe, yes 19:50:21 the perils of emacs applications 19:51:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-135.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:16 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:52:50 BW^- [~Miranda@unaffiliated/bw-/x-2460362] has joined #scheme 19:55:43 wingo [~wingo@37.163.224.62] has joined #scheme 14:11:11 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 14:11:11 14:11:11 -!- names: ccl-logbot zbigniew_ moea inarru_ andares_ davexunit SwashBuc1la _5kg jeapostrophe Riastradh effy bjz pnkfelix Okasu alexei_ masm mango_mds emma_ wingo civodul certainty Kneferilis jewel_ nisstyre tali713 `^_^v cibs defanor karswell frkout MichaelRaskin yacks nicdev antoszka b4283 mgodshall ASau mshoruzu fridim_ taylanub leppie araujo scoofy juanfra tiksa waxysubs joneshf-laptop superjudge wilfredh kwmiebach_ heath githogori Khisanth zarul SHODAN 14:11:11 -!- names: mornfall peted ebzzry ft hive-mind stamourv dRbiG wuehlmaus peterhil clog Giomancer amoe klltkr fikusz_ tessier aeth offby1 pcarrier gazoombo samth noobboob marsam ggherdov arrdem pjdelport Kruppe ivan\ pjb chrisirc hellome gluegadget joast omefire1 sethalves xian greghendershott stamourv` arbscht gnomon turbofail kilimanjaro robot-beethoven mmc zacts bernalex finnrobi cky kbtr copumpkin aap_ cmatei acieroid elly duncanm fizzie m4burns iron_houzi z0d 14:11:11 -!- names: felipe twem2 jrslepak eMBee choas_ micro mrowe_away slowpoke jkraemer Nshag DerGuteMoritz haroldwu Saeren gf3 shivani_ asumu ozzloy sigjuice acarrico gabot yosafbridge tenq aoh minsa4 cataska ada2358 ecraven Natch sung dan64 bicgena CADD_ dpk ineiros pchrist tsuyoshi_ epsylon SirDayBat edw jyc evhan Razz Kabaka AlterSid copec ohama fadein rudybot 14:11:11 -hubbard.freenode.net:#scheme- [freenode-info] help freenode 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`^_^v superjudge Blkt C-Keen stephe_ cross LeoNerd Shozan frkout_ Kruppe- lolcow moea taylanub pjb` emma jewel_ emma__ ec przl juxovec mrowez stepnem cdidd fantazo mario-goulart zbigniew_ inarru_ andares_ davexunit SwashBuc1la _5kg jeapostrophe Riastradh effy bjz pnkfelix Okasu alexei_ masm mango_mds wingo civodul certainty Kneferilis nisstyre tali713 cibs defanor karswell MichaelRaskin yacks nicdev antoszka b4283 ASau mshoruzu fridim_ araujo 14:39:09 -!- names: scoofy juanfra tiksa waxysubs joneshf-laptop wilfredh kwmiebach_ heath Khisanth zarul mornfall peted ebzzry ft hive-mind stamourv dRbiG peterhil clog Giomancer amoe klltkr fikusz_ tessier aeth offby1 pcarrier gazoombo samth noobboob marsam ggherdov arrdem pjdelport ivan\ chrisirc hellome gluegadget joast omefire1 sethalves xian greghendershott stamourv` arbscht gnomon turbofail kilimanjaro robot-beethoven mmc zacts bernalex finnrobi cky kbtr copumpkin 14:39:09 -!- names: aap_ cmatei acieroid rudybot fadein ohama copec AlterSid Kabaka Razz evhan jyc edw SirDayBat epsylon tsuyoshi_ pchrist ineiros dpk CADD_ bicgena dan64 sung Natch ecraven ada2358 cataska minsa4 aoh tenq twem2 felipe z0d iron_houzi m4burns fizzie duncanm elly jrslepak eMBee choas_ micro slowpoke jkraemer Nshag DerGuteMoritz haroldwu Saeren gf3 shivani_ asumu ozzloy sigjuice acarrico gabot yosafbridge 14:40:23 githogori [~githogori@c-69-181-109-63.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:42:18 -!- b4283 [~b4283@114-39-253-190.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ] 14:44:03 towodo [~anonymous@209-6-114-78.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 14:44:21 -!- Shozan is now known as SHODAN 14:50:08 -!- przl [~przlrkt@95.87.193.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:53:38 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-191-112.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:57:02 -!- towodo [~anonymous@209-6-114-78.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:59:54 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Quit: ] 14:59:54 -!- emma__ [~em@user-0cev0ld.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: ] 15:01:29 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 15:10:26 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:48 -!- tenq is now known as help 15:18:18 -!- help is now known as Guest66864 15:20:38 franzA [~fra@thunderer.ifi.uio.no] has joined #scheme 15:21:02 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFE136.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:24:10 How to i manipulate the first element in a list which is given in a function? Say i want to set it to 1.. 15:24:47 ASau [~user@p54AFE136.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 15:25:09 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:27:05 mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has joined #scheme 15:31:13 -!- mango_mds [~mango_mds@71.207.240.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:41:36 jxv [~jxv@71-84-192-255.dhcp.wsco.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 15:43:20 franzA, set-car! 15:47:44 thanks! 15:52:41 bjz_ [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 15:52:43 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:46 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.113] has quit [Quit: MichaelRaskin] 16:03:57 -!- jxv [~jxv@71-84-192-255.dhcp.wsco.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:00 Im trying to write a function which returns a list with all the elements in the list which is passed to the function is reversed. how? 16:04:04 jxv_ [~jxv@71-84-192-255.dhcp.wsco.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 16:04:23 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 16:05:26 -!- jxv_ [~jxv@71-84-192-255.dhcp.wsco.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:53 -!- Kruppe- [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 16:13:19 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 16:16:06 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:19:35 phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has joined #scheme 16:19:54 think about it a little while.... 16:20:01 use the stack abstraction..... 16:21:14 loop around (a b c d) -> push onto stack -> ........ 16:21:18 etc... 16:22:21 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFE136.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:22:45 hmm, ill try some more.. 16:30:03 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #scheme 16:30:59 any more tips? :) 16:34:34 (defvar *test* nil) (loop for x in '(a b c d) do (push x *test*)) -> (d c b a) 16:34:39 that's how i do it in cl 16:35:14 you could have named it *stack* maybe..... 16:35:40 i have to use recursion :/ 16:35:49 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:36:12 or used another form like (dolist (x '(a b c d)) (push x *test*)) etc... instead of the loop 16:39:56 ok then recurse..... 16:40:30 -!- _5kg [~zifeitong@60.191.2.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:43:31 you can start with basic assumptions.....on what you get handed over..... 16:43:39 it maybe a specific sequence..... 16:45:57 -!- franzA [~fra@thunderer.ifi.uio.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:08 aranhoide [~aranhoide@69.Red-83-57-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 16:48:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-229-211.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 17:18:42 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.118.58] has joined #scheme 17:20:16 ASau [~user@p54AFE136.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:21:51 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-191-112.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:23:28 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-136-193.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:24:49 _5kg [~zifeitong@60.191.2.238] has joined #scheme 17:25:12 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has joined #scheme 17:27:15 -!- phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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has quit [Quit: yasha] 23:07:53 -!- ijp [~user@host86-153-240-4.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:09:26 ijp [~user@host86-153-240-4.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 23:09:41 `^_^v [~nycs@rrcs-24-39-141-128.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:11:55 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD606C3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:12:05 alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD606C3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 23:12:45 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 23:13:56 alexshendi [~alexshend@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-242.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #scheme 23:18:26 -!- `^_^v [~nycs@rrcs-24-39-141-128.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:19:16 -!- mrowe is now known as mrowe_away 23:19:38 -!- mrowe_away is now known as mrowe 23:22:59 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 23:28:05 -!- jewel_ [~jewel@105-237-57-213.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:33:55 -!- tupi` [~user@139.82.89.157] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:38:03 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:38:22 -!- alexshendi [~alexshend@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-242.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:40:30 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.36.84] has joined #scheme 23:42:59 effy [~x@114.246.80.215] has joined #scheme 23:43:54 -!- effy_ [~x@114.246.80.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:53:19 There doesn't seem to be a lot of talking. :| 23:56:06 -!- juanfra10 [~juanfra@84.76.233.227] has quit [Quit: juanfra10] 23:56:39 juanfra [~juanfra@unaffiliated/juanfra] has joined #scheme 00:00:04 ASau` [~user@p54AFED39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 00:02:15 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFE136.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 00:04:24 if you have nothing to say, say nothing 00:05:50 -!- mrowe is now known as mrowe_away 00:08:25 -!- mrowe_away is now known as mrowe 00:15:29 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 00:18:26 or talk to rudybot 00:19:36 rudybot: morning 00:19:36 zRecursive: morning 00:21:04 rudybot: zRecursive: morning 00:21:05 kilimanjaro: or for non-numeric args for M-x foo do e.g. M-: (foo 'some-arg) as zRecursive suggested 00:21:51 rudybot: que es mas macho: fuji o kilimanjaro? 00:21:52 ijp: i'm going to order the fuji x1 when it's available 00:22:16 ijp: no se 00:25:41 -!- rins [~rins@38.88.168.154] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:09 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:41:09 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD606C3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:45:46 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:47:41 mario-go` [~user@email.parenteses.org] has joined #scheme 00:48:03 Natch 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10:33:28 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:42:09 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 10:45:41 -!- b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:50:51 MouldyOldBones [~mob@gateway/tor-sasl/mouldyoldbones] has joined #scheme 10:54:14 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:07:24 stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has joined #scheme 11:21:06 franzA [~fra@thunderer.ifi.uio.no] has joined #scheme 11:21:24 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:29 -!- mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:32:33 Im trying to write a procedure which takes a list as input, and return the list in reversed order. The procedure have to be recursive. how? 11:32:40 this is my latest attempt: http://paste.ofcode.org/37VRvEr7L4NBVzAnNJNVg8M 11:37:55 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 11:40:51 tiksa [~tiksa@gateway/tor-sasl/tiksa] has joined #scheme 11:41:20 -!- mario-go` is now known as mario-goulart 11:44:05 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FF5ADB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:47:59 visualshock [~visualsho@host-37-191-204-89.lynet.no] has joined #scheme 11:56:29 -!- MouldyOldBones [~mob@gateway/tor-sasl/mouldyoldbones] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59:12 MouldyOldBones [~mob@gateway/tor-sasl/mouldyoldbones] has joined #scheme 11:59:20 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #scheme 12:07:43 (1 2 3 4) how can I get the third element from the list using only car and cdr? 12:08:39 visualshock: do you understand what car and cdr do? 12:09:41 car returns first element of a list and cdr the last 12:09:55 second* 12:10:10 Actually cdr returns the "rest" 12:11:15 In fact it is the second element of a pair, which happens to be a list in case of lists. 12:12:05 Lists are pairs whose second element (the cdr) is a list (that can be empty). 12:12:44 okey 12:12:56 Examples: a pair: (1 . 2) 12:13:04 a list: (1 . (2 . ())) 12:13:26 Or, simpler: (1 . ()) 12:13:58 (1 . ()) can be written as (1), as well as (1 . (2 . ())) as (1 2) 12:14:30 So, car returns "the car", which is the first element of the pair. 12:14:41 b4283 [~b4283@218-164-219-11.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 12:15:24 cdr returns "the cdr", which is the second element of the pair (which can be any object, including pairs and lists). 12:16:43 Does it make things clearer? 12:17:36 -!- MouldyOldBones [~mob@gateway/tor-sasl/mouldyoldbones] has quit [Quit: MouldyOldBones] 12:17:57 mario-goulart, yes thank you 12:18:08 you're welcome 12:19:00 It made things clearer for me ass well :) 12:19:16 Im trying to write a procedure which takes a list as input, and return the list in reversed order. The procedure have to be recursive. how? 12:21:29 franzA: what should that procedure return when given an empty list? 12:21:53 '() 12:26:11 Alright. So you know when to stop the recursion. 12:28:25 yes, but dont know how to build the new list. 12:28:52 (cons ( car( rev-list (cdr item)) (cdr(item)))) 12:29:00 this is my latest try 12:30:03 I can see it wont work, but i cant think of a solution :/ 12:31:04 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 12:31:47 One way to do it is by recursively build the reverse list by "consing" the last element with the all the rest, except the last list element. 12:37:52 mario-goulart, looks like (car (cdr (cdr '(1 2 3 4)))) gets me he third element from the list. thanks you explaining it to me 12:38:34 visualshock: you're welcome. 12:39:01 franzA: start with a simple case: reverse (1 2) 12:39:01 To reverse it, cons the last element with the rest, except the last one: (cons (last l) (butlast l)), which would give (2 1) 12:39:27 To be able to reverse bigger lists, you'd need to do that recursively. 12:39:28 -!- yacks [~py@122.179.79.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:40:08 przl [~przlrkt@p4FF5ADB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 12:40:34 hmm, thanks. Ill keep trying! 12:43:25 you're welcome! 12:44:42 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 12:50:05 note that: (fold-right cons '() (list 1 2 3 4 5)) -> (1 2 3 4 5) 12:50:20 and: (fold cons '() (list 1 2 3 4 5)) -> (5 4 3 2 1) 12:50:32 which may or may not be illuminating 12:56:29 add^_ [~user@2001:16d8:cc2c:0:702a:d0f3:add8:d859] has joined #scheme 12:57:26 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:04:28 im still not able to figure this out! I think my problem is that i dont get how to access the elements in reversed order. Any hints? 13:08:06 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.208.66.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:08:36 annodomini [~lambda@c-76-23-156-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:08:36 -!- annodomini [~lambda@c-76-23-156-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:08:36 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 13:13:16 mario-goulart ? 13:13:59 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 13:22:59 meiji11 [~user@75.158.41.148] has joined #scheme 13:25:14 -!- moea [~moe@host217-42-246-181.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: moea] 13:28:34 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35:48 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #scheme 13:37:29 franzA: Have you written a loop / recursion to do something like sum a list? 13:39:34 franzA: Then, are you familiar with treating lists like a stack, using cons to "push" and cdr to "pop"? 13:42:17 moea [~moe@109.144.198.88] has joined #scheme 13:43:29 im all new to scheme. I have written a recursive procedure which squares all elements in a list. im not familiar with the terms push and pop 13:45:44 oh, they're in reference to the common "stack" data structure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stack_(abstract_data_type) 13:48:43 franzA: Say you have a list like (define l '(3 2 1)). 13:49:05 I knew what a stack was , just not used to the terms push and pop. do you know a site which explains how to treat lists like a stack?= 13:49:18 davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has joined #scheme 13:49:44 didnt see your last post, please continue 13:50:31 Then you can read the top using (car l) -> 3, pop the top with (cdr l) -> (2 1), and push a new item on top with (cons 4 l) -> (4 3 2 1). 13:52:17 i see, good explanation! 13:52:46 anton164 [~ScaR_@89.191.21.94] has joined #scheme 13:53:40 franzA: So, to reverse a list, try and see how you can do it in steps, operating on the input and output lists as stacks. 13:54:04 with each step popping a value from the input list, and pushing it on the output list 13:54:47 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FF5ADB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:54:50 It's like reversing a stack of plates, by repeatedly moving the top plate of the old stack onto a new stack. 13:54:59 i see! Ill give it a try! 13:56:30 Im trying to call apply on a list of lists with arguments, to do that I have tried the following: (map (compose apply myfunc) nested-list), but I am getting an arity mismatch. I can't understand why.. Here is the concrete example: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141320 13:58:32 It is correctly applying unit-test to ("Test 1" # 2 2), but it says that it expects 4 arguments, but is given 1 13:58:52 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 14:00:02 -!- mgodshall [~mgodshall@c-68-83-250-187.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mgodshall] 14:07:43 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 14:10:24 towodo [~anonymous@209-6-114-78.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 14:14:09 przl [~przlrkt@p4FF5ADB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 14:21:27 arubincloud [uid489@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-maxfjvdjvkqjrlqx] has joined #scheme 14:21:45 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 14:22:53 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-186-50.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:25:55 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FF5ADB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:28:11 przl [~przlrkt@p4FF5B73F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 14:28:22 Ok, so this is as close as i could get :P : http://paste.ofcode.org/StiXfkHrxXgDy6jhbaT53y 14:29:00 pjedelport ! 14:29:34 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 14:38:47 -!- moea [~moe@109.144.198.88] has quit [Quit: moea] 14:43:52 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #scheme 14:51:42 moea [~moe@host217-42-246-181.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 14:51:52 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FF5B73F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:52:16 przl [~przlrkt@p4FF5B73F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 14:52:26 annodomini [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:52:27 -!- annodomini [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:52:27 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 14:53:22 -!- aap_ [~aap@85.183.44.54] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:56:09 franzA: on the right track :) 14:58:26 Two hints: First, remember that the item in general should be the first argument to cons, and the list to pop the item onto the second argument. 14:58:40 aap_ [~aap@85.183.44.54] has joined #scheme 14:59:03 Second, you'll need an auxiliary function to help with the recursion, since unlike simpler loops, the reversal needs to keep more state than just the input list. 14:59:33 You'll need to keep two pieces of state: both the input and output lists. 15:00:54 Your main rev-list function should call the helper with the original input list, and an initially empty output list, and then just return the final reversed output list. 15:02:03 that makes sense, ill try some more :) 15:02:12 -!- anton164 [~ScaR_@89.191.21.94] has quit [Quit: anton164] 15:07:54 langmartin [~langmarti@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 15:07:59 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 15:09:16 -!- CADD_ [uid21876@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tmrznkzzyvztnztz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 15:26:29 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:30:29 -!- bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jowvmvpvtczjczis] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 15:32:24 -!- noobboob [uid5587@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dfkiuwbimiaxogsn] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 15:32:47 mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has joined #scheme 15:37:26 bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ovpxymwpbkeukzbl] has joined #scheme 15:40:21 pjdelport, i hate to ask, but any chance you could give me the answer? I still have 7 more tasks to go, and not much time :( 15:41:01 franzA: paste what you have so far 15:41:41 http://paste.ofcode.org/uXsVLYFNyA3ZKpLu7ncK4m 15:41:43 I'll help, but I want to make sure you understand it too. :) 15:41:58 im basically just experimenting and trying stuff out, hoping to find the solution.. 15:42:11 sounds good :) 15:46:06 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 15:47:13 -!- langmartin [~langmarti@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: sleep] 15:47:22 franzA: here's roughly what your helper should look like: http://paste.ofcode.org/gpDxbmwg4xU4p8nW4USPPG 15:48:51 Note how it transforms each argument: with every step, the input list is reduced by one item, with (cdr in) 15:49:02 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:49:40 -!- bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ovpxymwpbkeukzbl] has quit [] 15:50:00 and the output list is grown with the current item from the input list: (cons (car in) out) 15:50:31 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 15:50:51 That loops until the input list is empty, and then it returns the final output list. 15:50:59 Does that make sense? 15:51:28 just give me some time to take it all in :) 15:51:39 With the previous analogy, in and out are like the two stacks of plates. 15:52:30 and helper keeps moving the "top" item from in to out 15:53:21 You can think of each recursive call as just replacing the values of the two arguments, if that helps. 15:55:26 -!- juanfra [~juanfra@unaffiliated/juanfra] has quit [Quit: juanfra] 15:55:43 i see how it works! Thanks alot! 15:55:58 would this be a tail recursive procedure= 15:56:01 ? 15:56:39 Yes. 15:58:02 You can see that because the (helper ...) call is the very last thing that happens in the procedure. 15:58:42 There's no code wrapped around it, or after it. 15:59:20 anton164 [~ScaR_@cm-84.211.97.29.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 16:00:18 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #scheme 16:00:33 The "if" around it is a bit special: it's defined that whenever an "if" is in the tail position (i.e., last), then its two branches are also in the tail position. 16:00:38 -!- meiji11 [~user@75.158.41.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:02:03 So the "if" does not stop (helper ...) from being a tail call, but if it was a normal function instead of "if", then it would. 16:03:05 franzA: If you've worked in other languages before, tail recursion like this is basically how Scheme does loops. 16:03:30 so you'll often see people refer to simple recursions like this just as "loops" 16:03:56 and Scheme even has syntax to make writing recursions / loops like this more convenient 16:04:09 which you might encounter soon 16:06:58 alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD61E60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 16:07:16 wow, you should be a teacher! Really appreciate it!! 16:08:04 -!- add^_ [~user@2001:16d8:cc2c:0:702a:d0f3:add8:d859] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:56 juanfra [~juanfra@unaffiliated/juanfra] has joined #scheme 16:11:33 The same recursion/loop "format" worked on the next task as well, seems i have learned something :) 16:15:01 -!- mango_mds [~mango_mds@c-71-207-240-42.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:20:54 illerucis [~illerucis@cpe-72-225-194-43.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:27:29 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:29:14 Glad I could help. :) 16:29:31 Yeah, it's a common pattern. 16:31:31 Common enough to be abstracted into combinators like fold. 16:32:06 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-229-211.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:35:53 langmartin [~langmarti@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 16:36:11 -!- hatFolk is now known as hatFolk|out 16:36:44 fold is like a general, parameterized implementation of list recursion: by giving it the right arguments, you can do almost anything with a list. 16:37:11 hmm, sound handy! Ill check it out later!' 16:37:26 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FF5B73F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:37:50 so, for example (fold + 0 (list 1 2 3 4 5)) -> 15 16:38:03 (fold * 1 (list 1 2 3 4 5)) -> 120 16:38:28 (fold cons '() (list 1 2 3 4 5)) -> (5 4 3 2 1) 16:38:56 i couldn't bring fold-r or fold-l into tail-recursive forms tho.... 16:39:08 just to give you an idea of what you're working towards :) 16:39:24 in CL 16:39:42 and it blew on very large numbers..... 16:42:03 oleo: left fold is naturally a tail recursion in Scheme, but fold-right isn't 16:44:23 ja in Scheme not in CL 16:46:04 ditto for accumulate 16:53:01 -!- haroldwu [~haroldwu@unaffiliated/haroldwu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:53:16 haroldwu [~haroldwu@219.85.185.194] has joined #scheme 16:53:44 -!- haroldwu [~haroldwu@219.85.185.194] has quit [Changing host] 16:53:44 haroldwu [~haroldwu@unaffiliated/haroldwu] has joined #scheme 16:54:08 New problem: I want to write a procedure which takes a list, and a number. It is supposed to return the list without the elements which is equal to the given number 16:54:14 Why wont this run: http://paste.ofcode.org/35Ku35KbYuFE4GbGUGpVmut 16:55:31 <`^_^v> i choose to only read that for 5 seconds but it doesn't look like you call helper from ditch anywhere 16:57:33 sry, didnt paste the entire code: http://paste.ofcode.org/S8UzfZaRAwfnbwqS8wJfSS 16:57:49 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.117.55] has joined #scheme 16:58:47 Shadox [Shadox@66-227-143-140.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 16:59:27 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:01:35 <`^_^v> what does the error tell you 17:01:59 application: not a procedure; 17:01:59 expected a procedure that can be applied to arguments 17:01:59 given: (()) 17:01:59 arguments...: [none] 17:02:30 <`^_^v> what variable do you think has the value (())? 17:02:30 its from the last helper call in the helper procedure 17:03:42 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has joined #scheme 17:03:49 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07:43 jxv [~jxv@71-84-192-255.dhcp.wsco.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 17:08:24 hmm, i dont get it :/ newList is marked red in the compiler, but i cant understand why 17:11:55 i got it! it was the brackets surrounding newList which caused it! 17:12:22 <`^_^v> yes, in scheme parentheses mean function application 17:12:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-229-211.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 17:12:57 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA34A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:13:30 guess i already knew that, thanks! 17:16:41 -!- illerucis [~illerucis@cpe-72-225-194-43.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:35 Im trying to call apply on a list of lists with arguments, to do that I have tried the following: (map (compose apply myfunc) nested-list), but I am getting an arity mismatch. I can't understand why.. Here is the concrete example: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141320 17:19:55 It is trying to apply unit-test to ("Test 1" # 2 2), but it says that it expects 4 arguments, but is given 1 17:20:29 mango_mds [~mango_mds@c-71-207-240-42.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:23:21 anton164: what is the difference between (lambda (x) x) and (lambda x x) 17:23:46 -!- b4283 [~b4283@218-164-219-11.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ] 17:24:21 it seems weird to indirect through "compose" like that only to use apply for f 17:24:23 guampa [~guampa@gateway/tor-sasl/guampa] has joined #scheme 17:24:56 Hmm, not entirely sure about the difference 17:25:00 anton164: apply expects its arguments directly, not as a list 17:25:25 It can be a list though? e.g. (apply + '(1 2 3)) 17:25:40 Or in my concrete example (apply unit-test '("test" = 2 2)) 17:26:28 civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has joined #scheme 17:26:30 ijp: (lambda (x) x) takes x and returns x, the other I am not sure about 17:26:51 rudybot: ((lambda (x) x) 1) 17:26:51 ijp: your sandbox is ready 17:26:51 ijp: ; Value: 1 17:26:55 rudybot: ((lambda x x) 1) 17:26:55 ijp: ; Value: '(1) 17:27:10 anton164: sorry, my mistake; the final argument to apply is a list; any preceding ones aren't 17:27:19 anton164: the latter takes *any number* of arguments and bundles them up into a list 17:27:38 d'oh 17:27:39 I see, did not know that 17:27:51 anton164: your compose function should do (f (g x)) 17:27:57 not (f g x) :P 17:28:17 ijp: Thanks, that was it 17:28:18 that is the more traditional definition 17:28:30 Yeah, my compose definition shouldn't be named compose :p 17:28:34 or, rather, (f (apply g args)) 17:28:36 It is strictly for apply 17:28:58 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA34A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:29:49 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #scheme 17:33:20 anton164: it looks like you want: (map (lambda (args) (apply unit-test args)) tests) 17:33:57 Yes, of course 17:34:08 Cause all I had was unnecessary wrapping, thanks, good catch 17:42:26 Why doesn't (cons '(1 2) '(3 4)) -> ((1 2) (3 4))? 17:42:30 tupi [~user@139.82.89.157] has joined #scheme 17:43:00 Because the list (A B) means (cons A (cons B '()) 17:43:02 because CONS is not LIST 17:43:20 So in your case, the list ((1 2) (3 4)) means (cons '(1 2) (cons '(3 4) '())) 17:46:09 ah ofcourse, thanks 17:54:02 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA34A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:56:20 wingo_ [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 17:58:14 -!- wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:00:41 -!- langmartin [~langmarti@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: sleep] 18:04:24 annodomini [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 18:04:25 -!- annodomini [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:04:25 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 18:04:47 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 18:07:55 yasha [~yasha@unaffiliated/yasha] has joined #scheme 18:09:46 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 18:11:59 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA34A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:12:53 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA34A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:12:53 annodomini [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 18:12:53 -!- annodomini [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:12:53 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 18:15:31 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Client Quit] 18:16:51 -!- wingo_ is now known as wingo 18:20:09 jao` [~jao@12.131.14.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 18:20:12 -!- jao` [~jao@12.131.14.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Changing host] 18:20:12 jao` [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 18:20:42 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:16 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 18:26:00 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:34:17 annodomini [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 18:34:17 -!- annodomini [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:34:17 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 18:36:29 -!- pnkfelix [~pnkfelix@89.202.203.51] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 18:39:21 add^_ [~user@2001:16d8:cc2c:0:9436:13d6:d5d2:3dab] has joined #scheme 18:41:16 % (modulo) dosent seem to exist in scheme. How to i check if a number is a even number= 18:42:26 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD61E60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:43:08 (even? number) 18:43:16 rudybot: doc modulo 18:43:16 stamourv: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/generic-numbers.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._modulo)) 18:43:17 and there is modulo 18:43:19 franzA: ^ 18:43:39 -!- yasha [~yasha@unaffiliated/yasha] has quit [Quit: yasha] 18:44:19 haha, modulo is modulo. great 18:44:46 rudybot: (map even? (list 1 2 3 4)) 18:44:46 ijp: ; Value: '(#f #t #f #t) 18:47:50 vibhavp [~user@ubuntu/member/vibhav] has joined #scheme 18:48:12 Would mit-scheme be a good choice for everyday use? 18:48:50 yasha [~yasha@unaffiliated/yasha] has joined #scheme 18:49:29 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-186-50.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:49:51 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-178-89.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:55:51 sad0ur [~sad0ur@ip-89-102-144-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 18:57:27 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 18:59:17 -!- _asc [~Charkov@c5.edrana.lt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:37 langmartin [~langmarti@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 19:00:27 bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fugzhsgbxmkxfqpo] has joined #scheme 19:02:38 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:03:46 franzA: there's also a remainder. 19:04:10 % is randomly modulo or remainder. In sane languages, you have both and choose wisely which you want to use. 19:05:06 rudybot: division is hard 19:05:07 ijp: division by zero is not a real problem 19:05:30 MODULO is randomly modulo or remainder and REMAINDER is randomly modulo or remainder. 19:06:11 Neither % nor MOD(ULO) nor REM(AINDER) consistently has one meaning across the board; criticizing any one name in favour of the others is silly. 19:06:19 That's not what r5rs says. 19:06:44 It's not a question of name, it's that there are two different functions, and C doesn't specify which is implemented under the % operator. 19:08:08 rins [~rins@38.88.168.154] has joined #scheme 19:08:27 pjb: if you specified that then someone might have to change their compiler! 19:09:15 ijp: I've not checked the latest versions of the C standards, but in all the previous versions % was specified to do what the hardware did, not specifically modulo or remainder. Both were possible. 19:09:41 it's more accurate to say that modulo/remainder is one operation, with three variants: truncated, floored, and Euclidian 19:09:45 jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:09:52 5 variants 19:09:55 It would be a big philosophical change if C specified a specific function to % 19:10:31 No, pjb. C's % truncates. 19:10:54 What C -could- do is specify some functions with specific behaviours, then state that % is equivalent to an implementation-defined choice of one of those 19:10:57 Rather, / and % implement truncating integer division. 19:11:11 Riastradh: It's not a question of truncation, it's a question of sign! Read r5rs! 19:11:17 ... 19:11:23 You do some reading. 19:11:46 I don't see what the r5rs has to do with C .... 19:12:05 I already did. You can even, if you spent a modicum of energy searching, find a nice little article I wrote (adopted in part, I think, by the R7RS) about not two but five different reasonable choices for `integer division'. 19:12:12 Riastradh: you do some reading: https://www.securecoding.cert.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=6422581 19:12:12 http://tinyurl.com/m7pskw6 19:12:49 Riastradh: all the variants are in guile btw 19:12:53 There are choices, that's not the question. The question is that the C standard does not decide what % shall be. 19:12:57 pjb: http://people.csail.mit.edu/riastradh/tmp/division.txt 19:13:04 pjb, you didn't even read the article you just cited. 19:13:10 note the part where the url contains the substring "riastradh" 19:13:35 pjb: C99 actually fixes the definition to truncated modulo, FWIW 19:13:45 (before that it was implementation-defined) 19:13:47 Riastradh: you have more reading to do. Namely the first sentence of the cite page is: "In C89 (and historical K&R implementations), the meaning of the remainder operator for negative operands was implementation-defined." 19:13:56 Please be sure to read it before saying anything more on the subject! 19:14:29 pjdelport: what word of "I've not checked the latest versions of the C standards, but in all the previous versions % was specified to do what the hardware did, not specifically modulo or remainder. Both were possible." you don't understand? 19:14:35 .oO(this is what happens when someone tries to argue two points at once) 19:14:45 hehe 19:14:50 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 19:15:15 I hear god is going to fix our multi-threading in the 2.0 release 19:15:15 treating c99 as a recent version of c, lollerskates 19:15:32 pjb: I understand all parts, which is what prompted me to check, for both our benefit. I'm just trying to be friendly, here, no need to fight. 19:15:59 pjb, I don't even know what you're trying to argue or criticize here, but it sounds like you're more interested in fighting than conveying information, a decision which I would ask you to reconsider. 19:17:05 Riastradh: the only information that I conveyed was that % cannot be translated blindly to modulo, it may be remainder, if you consider C programs before C99. 19:17:13 Criticizing the name `%' for not being spelled `modulo' or `remainder' is silly because none of those names conveys any more information than the other, in general. Criticizing C for not defining the behaviour of `%' on negative operands is silly because it's been prescribed by the standard for fifteen years. 19:17:26 But it seems you have a hard time to understand that from a mere: "there's also a remainder.". 19:17:33 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 19:17:43 Riastradh: Please go back ten minutes ago! 19:17:54 No, thanks, I'd like to get some productive work done. Please fight somewhere else. 19:19:58 ok, I'm going to fight on DCS. ;-) 19:20:19 -!- franzA [~fra@thunderer.ifi.uio.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:49 annodomini [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 19:21:49 -!- annodomini [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:21:49 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 19:22:23 -!- vibhavp [~user@ubuntu/member/vibhav] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:22:52 mango_mds2 [~mango_mds@c-71-207-240-42.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:24:02 -!- mango_mds [~mango_mds@c-71-207-240-42.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:26:47 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:01 -!- robot-be` [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:27:33 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 19:27:41 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD91203.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:28:06 taylanub [tub@p4FD91D39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:31:13 -!- hatFolk|out is now known as tenq 19:31:58 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:34:29 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:39:06 phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has joined #scheme 19:43:27 -!- jao` [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:43:35 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 19:43:48 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA34A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:47:57 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:49:23 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 19:49:49 -!- add^_ [~user@2001:16d8:cc2c:0:9436:13d6:d5d2:3dab] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:53:46 I see `quotinent', `remainder', and `modulo', what are the other two ? 19:54:03 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA34A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:54:15 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:54:29 Oh, "integer division" .. 19:54:43 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:57:38 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 20:01:05 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.117.55] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:02:51 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:04:54 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #scheme 20:08:31 -!- langmartin [~langmarti@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: sleep] 20:10:14 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 20:18:49 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 20:19:24 illerucis [~illerucis@208.185.19.18] has joined #scheme 20:19:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-229-211.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:33 langmartin [~langmarti@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 20:31:13 alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD61E60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:35:31 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 20:36:08 -!- illerucis [~illerucis@208.185.19.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:36:27 How can I add a element to the beginning of a list? 20:37:07 illerucis [~illerucis@208.185.19.18] has joined #scheme 20:38:09 -!- langmartin [~langmarti@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: sleep] 20:38:39 never mind, I could just use cons 20:40:53 langmartin [~langmarti@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 20:41:35 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA34A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:50:58 -!- towodo [~anonymous@209-6-114-78.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: towodo] 20:51:30 -!- anton164 [~ScaR_@cm-84.211.97.29.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: anton164] 20:57:56 karswell [~user@84.93.180.60] has joined #scheme 21:03:32 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD61E60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:03:41 alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD61E60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:06:50 waxysubs [hope9@world.peace.net] has joined #scheme 21:07:38 anton164 [~ScaR_@cm-84.211.97.29.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 21:09:17 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.117.55] has joined #scheme 21:12:27 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:31 -!- phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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Lists are often done like this: (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil))). Cool, but, this way, foldl is hard to implement and foldr is easy. But foldl is much more intuitive than foldr, because it actually iterates the list in order. 02:31:04 So why not instead use (cons (cons (cons nil 1) 2) 3) ? 02:32:56 bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqlmzahnjweyqclt] has joined #scheme 02:33:13 SrPx: your list now requires three dereferences to get the first element rather than one. 02:34:13 asumu: I know, that sucks, but that is the only way to implement the foldl like that... and I can still access the last element in O(1), so I can just define algorithms in reverse... 02:34:18 SrPx: that says more about Scheme's evaluation order than about foldl / foldr 02:35:06 that have been hurting my head for some time already, as I've been trying to implement parallel unsided folds. Nothing makes sense algebrically when I use cons. Snoc makes everything OK 02:35:26 in for example Haskell, foldr is is the intuitive order, because Haskell evaluates outside-in 02:35:49 *SrPx* hmms 02:36:24 "unsided" folds? 02:36:25 so foldl iterates "in order" only relative to Scheme's eager evaluation order 02:36:31 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:37:10 I don't think you can do parallel folds: each step depends on the result of the previous. 02:37:40 if a function can be expressed as a right fold *and* a left fold, you can do it in parallel 02:38:03 You can only parallelize it if you can reorder the operations (i.e. if the operation you're folding forms a monoid). 02:38:04 (third homomorphism theorem) 02:38:05 pjdelport: how interesting to c u here 02:38:06 ijp: yea, for conc trees... as in, (foldmap f g (conc (list a) (list b))) -> (g (f a) (f b))... that was Guy's idea: http://vimeo.com/6624203 02:38:21 I'm trying to implement that on the gpu 02:38:22 SrPx: it's much older than that video 02:38:39 ijp: is it? Also, if you know why the question 02:39:13 the third homomorphism theorem is about as old as I am 02:39:33 ijp: but the idea to use conc lists on scheme like that is him's - or else he presents it like it is 02:39:49 *SrPx* doesn't know if him's is correct 02:39:52 his 02:39:57 that is hit, his, sorry. 02:40:11 NO, wait. 02:40:42 "List Processing Primitives for Parallel Computation" axford, joy 93 02:41:34 *SrPx* eyes are shinning right now 02:41:35 SrPx, why do you think it would make a difference to write lists forward or in reverse if you're still chaining them sequentially? 02:41:46 You can always build things up in reverse if that's more convenient. 02:42:45 Riastradh: I'm not, except when I need sequences. and when I do, only snoc lists are making sense. that is, I was thinking in how to implement foldl using fold, but I noticed I don't need to. if I apply fold to a snoc list, that IS foldl already. and if I apply fold to a cons list, that is foldr 02:42:55 b4283 [~b4283@1-173-100-89.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 02:43:21 I'm gonna read that paper now, brb 02:43:24 ijp: thanks 02:44:11 you already know the punchline 02:44:39 ijp: pardon what? No... 02:44:47 You can always (foldl ... (reverse l)) instead of (foldr ... l). 02:45:02 a simple exercise to prove 02:45:13 What puzzles me is why that seems like a big insight or revelation, or why it would help anything on a GPU. 02:45:46 Riastradh: it is for me 02:46:38 All you're doing by (snoc (snoc (snoc nil 1) 2) 3) is storing (reverse (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil)))). 02:46:48 (and writing the name and arguments backwards) 02:47:02 Riastradh: about the GPU, I'm trying to implement the unsided fold on the gpu. I want to compare the time it takes to, say, sum a 10000 numbers list in sequence on the CPU and in parallel using fold on the GPU 02:47:22 I just want to benchmark those, I know the CPU will probably be faster. but seems like a cool way to grasp more of the gpu 02:47:32 How do you do a parallel fold of a sequential data structure? 02:47:45 If you want to use balanced trees, that would make sense -- then you can divide and conquer. 02:47:55 But a list is the most unbalanced tree there is. 02:48:08 So you can't divide, only nibble off one leaf at a time. 02:48:43 Riastradh: I don't! This is mostly for monoids. The question is more about how will my interpreter deal with sequential data. I thought it wouldn't be able to. Now I see I *can* do it if I use cons/snoc lists. Yes it was a revelation for me, relax 02:49:37 OK, but just to clarify -- that (foldr ... l) = (foldl ... (reverse l)) was the revelation, not something else I'm missing? 02:50:39 no, the revelation is that my interpreter that was able to process conc lists with fold is actually able to do sequential computations if I just use left-biased trees. IE: revelation = my interpreter can compute sequential functions, I don't have to do anything else for it, just order my lists correctly 02:51:28 Well, now I'm confused. Why can your interpreter handle `left-biased trees' but not `right-biased trees'? 02:51:44 '---' 02:51:59 Look, this was the revelation: (fold f i (conc (conc (conc (list nil) (list a)) (list b)) (list c))) = (foldl f i (snoc (snoc (snoc nil a) b) c)) 02:52:45 And the same goes for foldr lists too. I didn't know my interpreter cold implement foldr and foldl. I just noticed it can implement both. That was my revelation u.u 02:52:51 *SrPx* is horrible at explaining stuff 02:54:01 Now /me just has to figure out if he can find a fast algorithm to convert randomly balanced trees into left/right biased trees (: 02:54:37 now I'm confused 02:54:52 then I just (define (foldl f z lst) (fold f z (balance_left lst))) :D 02:55:02 ) 02:55:20 SrPx: they should be trivial to convert just by traversing 02:55:24 in O(N) 02:55:44 I suppose a directed reduction is more powerful than an undirected one, but why not just perform a directed traversal primitive on the tree directly 02:56:20 ijp: because I don't know what is that :/ 02:56:37 pjdelport: nice! I'll think about that later 02:56:44 but it would probably be more efficient to just implement both foldl and foldr on the tree directly as traversals 02:57:34 IOW, the same as you would do to flatten the tree, except without constructing the copy 02:57:49 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 02:58:02 pjdelport: I just can't figure an algorithm that takes a balanced tree and foldl's over it 02:58:17 SrPx: it's just traversal, isn't it? 02:58:56 that is, for a linear foldl 02:59:04 I mean, I would probably do something like implementing foldl as I'm used to when it is a cons list... by calling head and tail and recursing... but that would obviously be ridiculously slow as head and tail will be O(alot) by themselves 02:59:11 if you want a parallel reduction, that's a different thing 02:59:41 SrPx: well, for a tree, you'd do it as a traversal, instead of head and tail 02:59:46 anton164 [~ScaR_@cm-84.211.97.29.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 03:00:04 recursing on either side of each node 03:00:23 but I don't see what you mean, a blind transversal wouldn't make it magically execute the things in order... remember it is an unbalanced tree such as ((1 2) (3 4))? 03:00:32 bremner [~bremner@debian/developer/bremner] has joined #scheme 03:01:07 if you do a left-to-right traversal, the fold operation would see those elements in order 03:01:15 (or in reverse order, for a right-to-left traversal) 03:01:41 Oh, wait. 03:01:44 I see what you mean.... 03:02:09 that is just not possible on my case as the GPU implementation doesn't have an order of evaluation... 03:02:12 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:02:16 but now I see how that would work on scheme 03:03:02 are you doing it as a vector operation on the GPU? 03:03:26 or how does it work? 03:03:42 each pixel is a node, each step performs a reduction 03:04:25 so (+ (+ (+ 1 2) (+ 3 4)) (+ (+ 1 2) (+ 3 4))) becomes (+ (+ 3 7) (+ 3 7)) in 1 step and (+ 10 10) in 2 steps and 20 on the third step 03:05:39 (i have to be going, sorry, but hopefully others can continue this) 03:06:28 haha ok! you guys are very helpful, thanks! im actually going to read that paper now, seems entertaining 03:06:45 -!- bremner [~bremner@debian/developer/bremner] has left #scheme 03:07:03 jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:09:40 jaccas [~pjfcl@3.182.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 03:11:38 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:13:02 -!- jaccas [~pjfcl@3.182.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 03:15:17 -!- klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 03:15:59 -!- nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:19:57 nisstyre [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 03:26:31 -!- Shadox [Shadox@66-227-143-140.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:28:42 jao` [~jao@21.Red-79-153-49.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 03:28:45 -!- jao` [~jao@21.Red-79-153-49.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:28:45 jao` [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 03:31:53 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 03:36:30 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #scheme 03:48:19 vibhav [~user@ubuntu/member/vibhav] has joined #scheme 03:48:39 On a scale from 1 to 10, how sensible it is to implement a tail recursive version of a factorial? 03:49:17 Is it homework? 03:49:39 LeoNerd: nope 03:49:43 If not, personally I wouldn't bother. Factorial makes -huge- numbers very quickly, and tends not to be used much in practice; unlikely to make a lot of difference 03:50:34 LeoNerd: I as told that it is usual for schemers to use (tail) recursion instead of iteration 03:50:38 s/as/was/ 03:50:59 For sensible problems, yes :) 03:51:27 hey, I'm finished with the paper. is there any language using those ideas? I loveit... 03:51:41 In Scheme the basic iteration construct is recursive procedures. 03:51:59 Also, personally I'd wonder how many actual implementations these days can do TCMC-style optimisations with multiplication 03:52:18 Nobody does TCMC in Scheme. 03:52:28 Doesn't work in the general case with CWCC. 03:52:34 Not worth it in special cases. 03:55:22 Which is a shame, because I'm sure it would be worth it if you could replace call/cc with nicer things 03:55:53 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:57:38 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 04:01:47 call/cc usually makes code hard to maintain :( 04:01:54 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:02:37 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:05:27 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 04:06:57 Indeed... Worse Than Goto 04:07:13 call/ec is nice, and doesn't have the unfortunate interaction with TCMC 04:10:37 Not Scheme, then. Usually the proposed alternative is delimited continuations, but they don't help with TCMC. 04:11:31 That said, I don't see what the appeal of automatic TCMC is. Why not transform the code yourself? 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-!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@d60-65-147-223.col.wideopenwest.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:28:02 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:32:562a:b3ee:137e] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:28:03 -!- cibs [~cibs@60-251-40-253.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:28:45 finnrobi_ [~robb@92.243.20.190] has joined #scheme 16:28:55 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:30:21 -!- heathjs [quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:30:45 duncanm [~duncan@64.22.124.146] has joined #scheme 16:30:46 la la la 16:31:38 badumm *tschinggg* 16:31:42 lol 16:32:41 What is TCMC ? Wikipedia and Google don't help. 16:32:42 -!- kbtr [~kbtr@zncb.io] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:32:42 heath [quassel@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:6e5b] has joined #scheme 16:32:43 -!- heath [quassel@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:6e5b] has quit [Changing host] 16:32:43 heath [quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #scheme 16:32:43 githogori [~githogori@69.181.109.63] has joined #scheme 16:32:44 -!- dpk_ [uid15387@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:32:44 -!- clog_ [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:32:45 ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has joined #scheme 16:32:45 sigjuice [~sigjuice@192.241.139.168] has joined #scheme 16:32:45 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has quit [Changing host] 16:32:45 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #scheme 16:34:10 in what context ? 16:34:11 -!- githogori [~githogori@69.181.109.63] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:34:15 -!- Riastrad2 [~riastradh@jupiter.mumble.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:34:36 "TCMC-style optimisations with multiplication" 16:34:50 "I don't see what the appeal of automatic TCMC is. Why not transform the code yourself? It's a local transformation, so it doesn't increase the language's expressiveness." 16:35:01 From about 12 hours back in this channel. 16:35:07 nicdev`` [~user@kilimanjaro.rafpepa.com] has joined #scheme 16:35:07 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 16:35:07 SirDayBat [holttan1@gateway/shell/tkk.fi/x-axgdipghfaxyajml] has joined #scheme 16:35:07 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #scheme 16:37:12 heathjs [quassel@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:6e5b] has joined #scheme 16:37:12 -!- heathjs [quassel@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:6e5b] has quit [Changing host] 16:37:12 heathjs [quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #scheme 16:44:00 -!- wilfredh_ [sid159@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:44:01 Giomancer [~gio@107.201.206.230] has joined #scheme 16:44:01 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:44:02 -!- duncanm [~duncan@64.22.124.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:44:02 -!- 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I was searching, but found none. 01:19:38 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 01:23:59 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:31:08 lolcow [~lolcow@105-236-33-136.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 01:32:35 -!- leppie [~lolcow@105.236.33.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:35:31 cross [~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has joined #scheme 01:35:31 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 01:35:31 fikusz_ [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 01:35:31 asumu [~at@2001:470:b:b7:1e6f:65ff:fe23:c3d4] has joined #scheme 01:35:31 gluegadget [sid22336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session] has joined #scheme 01:35:31 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 01:35:31 LeoNerd [leo@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fe96:20e8] has joined #scheme 01:35:31 pchrist [spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 01:35:31 kwmiebach__ 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tcsc [~tcsc@c-76-118-148-98.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 11:45:07 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 11:45:07 11:45:07 -!- names: ccl-logbot cross_ gnomon neohipst1r Riastrad1 mrowez juxovec_ hiyosi lolcow Nizumzen gabot ccorn add^_ wilfredh mornfall nisstyre oleo C-Keen stephe_ Blkt pjdelport kwmiebach__ pchrist LeoNerd scoofy gluegadget asumu fikusz_ bjz yacks BossKonaSegwaY1 ASau ivan\ rudybot_ robot-be` juanfra finnrobi stamourv` sethalves cdidd Nshag SirDayBat nicdev`` stamourv turbofail joast waxysubs minsa ineiros githogori zbigniew tessier duncanm xian_ sigjuice choas 11:45:07 -!- names: offby1 `^_^v ctindall Kabaka_ _5kg certainty mshoruzu DerGuteM1 bernalex twem2 z0d iron_houzi m4burns fizzie elly jrslepak eMBee micro slowpoke jkraemer epsylon Razz acieroid cky arbscht peterhil ft Khisanth antoszka SwashBuckla inarru_ ec emma yosafbridge samth felipe Kneferilis haroldwu karswell ski pjb ada2358 pcarrier net4all andares tenq aap_ dRbiG _sizung heath tali713 cibs marsam aeth evhan ozzloy fadein ohama Natch tsuyoshi edw kbtr chrisirc 11:45:07 -!- names: pe7ed27 kilimanjaro clog SHODAN amoe zarul hive-mind aoh 11:45:47 ebzzry_ [~ebzzry@112.204.28.168] has joined #scheme 11:48:48 jewel_ [~jewel@105-237-57-213.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:03:43 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 12:03:43 jyc_ [~jyc@173.245.6.163] has joined #scheme 12:03:43 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 12:03:43 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:03:43 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #scheme 12:03:43 acarrico [~acarrico@hunt-sting-2-164.greenmountainaccess.net] has joined #scheme 12:03:43 tiksa [~tiksa@178-222-86-173.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #scheme 12:03:43 b4283 [~b4283@218-164-204-135.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 12:03:43 defanor_ [~defanor@muffin.uberspace.net] has joined #scheme 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neohipst1r is now known as neohipster 12:33:56 ccorn [~ccorn@83.218.128.161] has joined #scheme 12:34:37 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:36:06 -!- jewel_ [~jewel@105-237-57-213.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:47:25 mario-goulart [~user@email.parenteses.org] has joined #scheme 12:58:37 ahrimahn [ad3cc922@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.60.201.34] has joined #scheme 12:58:39 yeah 12:58:40 well 12:58:44 for some people maybe 13:11:04 -!- ASau [~user@p5083D3B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:15:28 taylanub [tub@p4FD900E1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 13:18:06 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:24:21 ASau [~user@p5083D3B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 13:28:45 -!- ASau [~user@p5083D3B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:29 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 13:37:11 ASau 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[~isma@unaffiliated/codekk] has quit [Client Quit] 17:25:05 codekK [~isma@unaffiliated/codekk] has joined #scheme 17:31:30 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 17:33:52 Hello, someone know how to get the box and pointer diagram with Dr.Racket ? 17:42:32 StoneCypher [StoneCyphe@24.130.35.228] has joined #scheme 17:42:51 if you don't want to use disk or /dev/urandom or etc, where could you plausibly get a random seed in r5rs? 17:45:05 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD900E1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:45:31 taylanub [tub@p4FD92810.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:46:08 -!- juxovec_ [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:02 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:47:37 codekK: you could write a little program to do it, it's easy and funny. 17:47:46 StoneCypher, there's no general way. 17:48:01 Riastrad1: long time no see 17:48:09 Riastrad1: that's surprising, but i didn't find one, so i believe it 17:48:21 Riastrad1: is there something less dissatisfying, at least, than counter on disk? 18:13:45 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 18:13:45 18:13:45 -!- names: ccl-logbot tiksa arubin StoneCypher Sgeo codekK tupi araujo Shadox amgarchIn9 gazoombo_ dan64 phipes copumpkin ecraven fridim_ straycat greghendershott cmatei foeniks scheibo ebzzry jxv bjz jeapostrophe ASau mario-goulart cross pcarrier_ omefire copec defanor_ b4283 acarrico joneshf-laptop jyc_ Kruppe gnomon neohipster Riastradh mrowez hiyosi lolcow gabot add^_ wilfredh mornfall nisstyre oleo C-Keen stephe_ Blkt pjdelport kwmiebach__ pchrist LeoNerd 18:13:45 -!- names: scoofy gluegadget asumu fikusz_ BossKonaSegwaY1 ivan\ rudybot_ robot-be` juanfra finnrobi stamourv` sethalves cdidd Nshag SirDayBat nicdev`` stamourv turbofail joast waxysubs minsa ineiros githogori zbigniew tessier duncanm xian_ sigjuice choas offby1 `^_^v ctindall Kabaka_ _5kg certainty mshoruzu DerGuteM1 bernalex twem2 z0d iron_houzi m4burns fizzie elly jrslepak eMBee micro slowpoke jkraemer epsylon Razz acieroid cky arbscht peterhil ft Khisanth 18:13:45 -!- names: antoszka SwashBuckla inarru_ ec emma yosafbridge samth felipe Kneferilis haroldwu karswell ski pjb ada2358 net4all andares tenq aap_ dRbiG _sizung heath tali713 cibs marsam aeth evhan ozzloy fadein ohama Natch tsuyoshi edw kbtr chrisirc pe7ed27 kilimanjaro clog SHODAN amoe zarul hive-mind aoh 18:13:45 -orwell.freenode.net:#scheme- [freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp 18:15:27 tcsc [~tcsc@c-76-118-148-98.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:16:00 KAY 18:16:04 -caps 18:16:06 thanks. 18:16:08 -!- StoneCypher [StoneCyphe@24.130.35.228] has left #scheme 18:16:40 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:17:27 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 18:18:59 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #scheme 18:21:11 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:23:12 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:23:40 Someone can tell me if this box and pointer diagram its correct??? http://s3.postimg.org/rfmvg9no3/boxandpointer_cod.png thanks 18:26:28 Looks good to me. 18:26:28 -!- arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 18:26:45 Except for the dangling right round delimiter at the end. 18:27:26 groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #scheme 18:36:54 Riastradh, what its dangling right round ?? '() <- ? 18:39:16 jewel [~jewel@105-236-25-225.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:40:25 No, the dangling `)' on the last line. 18:41:15 antithesis [antithesis@5.44.97.38] has joined #scheme 18:42:19 -!- neohipster is now known as AlterSid 18:45:03 -!- rudybot_ is now known as rudybot 18:45:48 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD60E6B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:59 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD60E6B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:46:55 Hello, I'm having a tough time deciding between Haskell and Scheme as my first language. I want to start with a functional because I hear that it makes you a better programmer. Haskell focuses more on this than Scheme. Is that a good reason to choose it over Scheme? 18:47:23 Well, I have a little experience with sh, but it's nothing special 18:49:35 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 18:51:11 antithesis, I would go with Scheme because: a) there is plenty of introductory and pedagogic material b) haskell has steeper learning curve (you have to master the type system in addition to other concepts) 18:54:07 pnkfelix [~pnkfelix@bas75-2-88-170-201-21.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 18:54:32 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:59:16 jao` [~jao@42.140.14.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 18:59:19 -!- jao` [~jao@42.140.14.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Changing host] 18:59:19 jao` [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 18:59:36 Rodya_ [~trav@pool-98-115-20-99.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:59:39 Hello, someone can help me? I have this http://paste.debian.net/83664/ and i want to execute the two expresion of line 3 when the if of line 2 its #t but it dont exceute my recursive call... :( 19:00:37 -!- straycat [~richard@cpc2-asht7-2-0-cust93.10-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:04:21 Riastradh, have a second? .p 19:06:05 If it's not empty, you look at only the first element and stop there. 19:06:12 If it is empty, you try to take its cdr -- which isn't going to work! 19:07:35 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD60E6B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:09:02 Yes and i want to evaluate the two expresion when its not empty 19:09:26 I try englob all with () but isnt work 19:09:58 jewel let's say I have time on my hands. Is it true that Haskell is more rewarding in teaching you a useful type of thinking if you invest time in it? 19:10:24 And by useful type of thinking, I mean something that can be applied even outside of functional programming languages 19:10:47 You hear about people who get better at imperative languages as well after learning Haskell 19:11:35 antithesis, I think that's true, although I haven't invested enough time in Haskell myself 19:12:34 antithesis, you can get better at imperative languages by learning functional programming (and I would also advise some experimentation with Prolog and SQL) but at some point you'll also need to learn a whole bunch of imperative languages to be good at those 19:13:32 -!- LeoNerd [leo@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fe96:20e8] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 19:14:22 LeoNerd [leo@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fe96:20e8] has joined #scheme 19:14:58 codekK, what do you want to do if the list is empty? 19:15:10 finish 19:15:15 Meaning? 19:15:21 End the recursive 19:15:25 And return what? 19:16:00 The result of (> (car lista-nums) n) 19:16:11 For each iteration 19:16:39 something like: (greater-than 10 '(1 23 4 -1 12 11 10)) -> (#f #t #f #f #t #t #f) 19:19:36 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 19:22:09 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 19:22:26 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:01 antithesis : why not learn both ? 19:24:29 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:24:30 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 19:24:32 ski which one first? 19:24:38 *ski* seconds jewel's suggestion for also learning logic programming, and the relational database model (and perhaps also looking at deductive databases) 19:25:05 antithesis : depends mostly on taste and personal alignment, i think 19:26:00 SICP uses Scheme. you can try and see if you like it, and then learn Scheme first 19:28:00 wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:31:28 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-145-210.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:32:08 comparing Scheme and Haskell; Scheme is dynamically typed, uses strict evaluaation, has side-effects, and has (first-class) continuations and macros (relating to meta-programming); Haskell is statically typed (with a rich type system), uses non-strict evaluation, doesn't have side-effects, has some interesting concepts like monads, applicative functors, multiplate in libraries 19:32:40 -!- pnkfelix [~pnkfelix@bas75-2-88-170-201-21.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1] 19:32:41 both tend to emphasize effect-free computation, when reasonable 19:33:19 also, if you're not used to higher-order programming yet, you'll learn that as well 19:33:29 antithesis : does that help any ? 19:35:44 Thanks. I guess I'll work my way through The Little Schemer first, then I'll learn myself a Haskell for great good 19:37:17 Actually, would you recommend TLS or SICP? 19:38:01 if you like the style of TLS, then that's a style you like 19:38:35 SICP covers more material than TLS and TSS (and TRS) 19:39:16 Hello, someone can help me? I have this http://paste.debian.net/83664/ and i want to execute the two expresion of line 3 when the if of line 2 its #t but it dont exceute my recursive call... :( 19:39:28 TSS and TRS? 19:39:41 The Seasoned Schemer, The Reasoned Schemer 19:40:15 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 19:40:30 (there is also a "The Little MLer", for SML) 19:41:20 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 19:41:30 a contender to SICP is HTDP 19:41:56 if you go with SICP, be sure not to miss the SICP lectures (videos) 19:42:18 Right 19:42:54 *ski* . o O ( "List of popular programming book acronyms" by mbishop at ) 19:42:54 http://tinyurl.com/advatfh 19:43:38 I don't like to learn from videos 19:43:41 I learn by doing. 19:43:47 ok 19:44:52 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-154-114.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:45:37 -!- scheibo [~scheibo@c-69-181-127-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #scheme 19:48:17 AlterSid_ [~sid@altersid.net] has joined #scheme 19:48:29 asumu_ [~at@2001:470:b:b7:1e6f:65ff:fe23:c3d4] has joined #scheme 19:48:33 Riastrad1 [~riastradh@jupiter.mumble.net] has joined #scheme 19:48:34 pchrist_ [spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 19:50:09 -!- asumu [~at@2001:470:b:b7:1e6f:65ff:fe23:c3d4] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 19:50:09 -!- LeoNerd [leo@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fe96:20e8] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 19:50:18 -!- pchrist [spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 19:50:42 -!- AlterSid [~sid@altersid.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:51:17 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@jupiter.mumble.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 19:51:27 LeoNerd [leo@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fe96:20e8] has joined #scheme 19:52:16 antithesis: you should watch them just to see abelson & sussman in wizard hats / pretending to be computers 19:55:25 davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has joined #scheme 19:58:37 -!- codekK is now known as codekK^AFK 20:00:57 -!- Riastrad1 is now known as Riastradh 20:02:40 -!- wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:06:18 -!- AlterSid_ is now known as AlterSid 20:14:18 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:21:48 -!- asumu_ [~at@2001:470:b:b7:1e6f:65ff:fe23:c3d4] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:21:48 -!- pchrist_ [spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:21:55 asumu [~at@2001:470:b:b7:1e6f:65ff:fe23:c3d4] has joined #scheme 20:22:39 pchrist [spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 20:27:14 mango_mds [~mango_mds@c-71-207-240-42.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:50:29 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 20:50:41 -!- mrowez is now known as mrowe_away 21:05:07 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:05:59 -!- bernalex [~alexander@107.4.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Changing host] 21:05:59 bernalex [~alexander@gentoo/developer/fsf.member.bernalex] has joined #scheme 21:09:23 -!- tupi [~user@189.60.14.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:24:46 straycat [~richard@cpc2-asht7-2-0-cust93.10-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 21:29:25 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 21:34:32 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:46:27 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:27 -!- add^_ [~user@2001:16d8:cc2c:0:ed15:41f5:b26:b9aa] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:02:53 dpk [uid15387@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ipslkeihbrljzwzp] has joined #scheme 22:03:29 Hi guys. How could I go about including a custom library of functions into a separate source file in gauche scheme? 22:04:08 The equivalent of #include "~/../foo.h" 22:05:40 snits [~snits@71-38-98-214.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 22:05:42 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 22:16:33 -!- snits [~snits@71-38-98-214.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:16:45 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:16:55 snits [~snits@71-38-98-214.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 22:17:11 -!- snits [~snits@71-38-98-214.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:20:45 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 22:24:53 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc05-o.oracle.com] has joined #scheme 22:27:56 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:14 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 22:38:16 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 22:44:10 -!- mrowe_away is now known as mrowe 22:46:14 -!- jao` [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:46:54 -!- codekK^AFK [~isma@unaffiliated/codekk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:23 taylanub [tub@p4FD90425.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:51:11 -!- phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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*!*@4.38.41.141 *!*@85.102.168.57 *hellues*!*@* *!*hellues*@* 08:05:04 -!- sendak.freenode.net has set mode +bbbb *!*@78.183.196.20 *!*__*@*ve*@a243-120.24online.fi *!*@adsl-77-86-123-34.karoo.KCOM.COM *!*uqstxiod@*.xdsl.telecet.ru 08:05:04 -!- sendak.freenode.net has set mode +qqqq *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.105.238.153 *!*@pool-74-111-197-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net *!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/* *!*@host193-123-47-78-dhcp.bshellz.net 08:05:04 -!- sendak.freenode.net has set mode +qqqq darkseed!*@* telaviv!*@204.28.116.* topo*!*@* whfltqytrku!*@* 08:05:04 -!- sendak.freenode.net has set mode +q *!*ddcgavins@* 08:05:04 -!- sendak.freenode.net changed the topic of #scheme to: (map surf-to '("http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme" "http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/scheme/" "http://schemers.org/" "http://community.schemewiki.org/" "http://library.readscheme.org/" "http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/" "http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/" "http://www.htdp.org/" "http://www.scheme.com/tspl/")) ; RIP John McCarthy, 1927--2011 08:06:49 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:09:52 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:09:52 -!- mango_mds2 [~mango_mds@c-71-207-240-42.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:09:52 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:09:52 -!- ASau [~user@p5083D401.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:09:52 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:09:52 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.204.28.168] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:09:52 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:09:52 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@hunt-sting-2-164.greenmountainaccess.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:09:52 -!- defanor_ [~defanor@muffin.uberspace.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:09:52 -!- antithesis [antithesis@5.44.97.38] has quit [*.net *.split] 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joined #scheme 12:29:15 tcsc [~tcsc@c-76-118-148-98.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:29:19 How does one use bitwise or in scheme? 12:33:22 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@73.48.159.226] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:37:53 vibhavp` [~user@117.201.94.209] has joined #scheme 12:39:03 -!- vibhavp [~user@ubuntu/member/vibhav] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 12:40:24 -!- DerGuteM1 is now known as DerGuteMoritz 12:44:38 vibhavp` : try `bitwise-ior'/`logior' in SRFI 60 "Integers as Bits" by Aubrey Jaffer in 2005 at ? 12:46:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-243.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:47:49 ski: thanks 12:49:18 -!- antithesis [antithesis@5.44.97.38] has left #scheme 12:53:12 -!- vibhavp` [~user@117.201.94.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:05:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-222.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 13:05:37 -!- Tuplanolla [~Put-on-la@dsl-jklbrasgw2-54f8aa-52.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping 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[~x@114.246.80.215] has joined #scheme 21:26:28 stepnem_ [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has joined #scheme 21:27:14 ski: i might call that "mutation" 21:27:54 andares [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined #scheme 21:28:08 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:09 -!- stepnem_ is now known as stepnem 21:28:11 -!- andares_ [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:27 -!- bjz_ [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:33 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:27 alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD60A03.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:31:11 hm, "mutation" to me suggests state, and this doesn't (necessarily) imply state to me 21:31:51 ski: do you mean something like parameters? 21:32:08 yes, that's one way to do it 21:32:25 (which is why i said "for variables/parameters") 21:32:35 in that case s/change the value associated with a variable/make a new binding for a dynamic variable/ 21:32:51 whether the binding is fresh or not is observable 21:33:40 the "change the value associated with a variable for the duration of a dynamic extent" was supposed to be colloquial for your "make a new binding for a dynamic variable" :) 21:34:36 -!- Rodya_ [~trav@pool-98-115-20-99.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:34:47 -!- rustico [~rustico@190.55.37.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:35:16 -!- effy [~x@114.246.80.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 458 seconds] 21:35:17 Riastrad1 [~riastradh@jupiter.mumble.net] has joined #scheme 21:35:21 wingo : hm, i suppose if you make a closure which captures the variable/parameter, outside of the local binding construct, fluids and parameters behaves differently ? 21:35:34 rustico [~rustico@190.55.37.246] has joined #scheme 21:35:37 Rodya_ [~trav@pool-98-115-20-99.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:35:47 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@jupiter.mumble.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:35:47 no, actually, i don't think that's true 21:36:01 -!- rustico [~rustico@190.55.37.246] has quit [Client Quit] 21:36:03 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-231-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 21:37:27 a delimited continuation would capture a fresh binding, but not a new value of an old binding 21:46:07 aranhoide [~aranhoide@25.Red-83-40-75.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:48:50 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:50:02 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD60A03.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:54:25 alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD60A03.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:56:00 -!- davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has quit [Quit: Later] 21:56:23 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 21:57:00 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 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[~frkout@101.110.31.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:19 frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has joined #scheme 03:00:22 omefire [~omefire@c-50-159-45-177.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:14:24 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-148-164.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:15:36 what 03:16:45 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:18:11 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #scheme 03:28:27 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 03:33:32 what what ? 03:36:06 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.204.28.168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:50 ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.204.28.168] has joined #scheme 03:37:32 wat 03:41:44 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:41:46 -!- ASau`` [~user@p5083D65C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:43:35 hey 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jxv mgodshall arubincloud araujo nisstyre Shadox mango_mds rustico FareWell oleo davexunit mornfall Tuplanolla gravicappa Ogion Kneferilis nalssi effy certainty cross omefire1 robot-beethoven ASau` stepnem Okasu ijp civodul bjz jewel pjb jyc joneshf-laptop kilimanjaro dan64 _8680_ ozzloy Riastradh b4284 snits aeth metasyntax pchrist rudybot stamourv` jaimef Guest71443 gluegadget arrdem dpk fadein andares bars0 pe7ed27 pcarrier edw aap_ 16:30:49 -!- names: taylanub hive-mind stamourv gabot ada2358 jrslepak scoofy zarul m4burns shivani_ acieroid Blkt evhan ebzzry peterhil fikusz tenq|out clog haroldwu defanor_ C-Keen kwmiebach__ LeoNerd akp _5kg_ leppie cdidd iron_houzi dca SHODAN antoszka DeeEff tali713 bars0__ vyv_ pjdelport duncanm gf3 xenophon marsam amoe fridim_ Khisanth twem2 z0d eMBee micro slowpoke jkraemer epsylon Razz arbscht ft SwashBuckla inarru_ ec emma yosafbridge samth felipe dRbiG heath cibs 16:30:49 -!- names: ohama Natch tsuyoshi kbtr aoh bernalex DerGuteMoritz mshoruzu Kabaka_ ctindall `^_^v offby1 choas xian_ tessier zbigniew ineiros waxysubs joast turbofail nicdev SirDayBat Nshag sethalves finnrobi juanfra ivan\ mrowe_away asumu cmatei fizzie cky elly copumpkin copec Kruppe stephe_ cataska wilfredh gnomon greghendershott mario-goulart acarrico 16:32:19 alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD6395D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 16:35:27 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #scheme 16:37:27 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 16:41:15 developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 16:41:22 -!- FareWell [fare@nat/google/x-lyzrdccsmeiwiklw] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:46:09 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 16:50:09 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD6395D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:51:37 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 16:55:19 -!- b4284 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jkraemer slowpoke micro eMBee z0d twem2 Khisanth fridim_ amoe marsam xenophon gf3 duncanm pjdelport vyv_ bars0__ tali713 DeeEff antoszka SHODAN dca iron_houzi cdidd leppie _5kg_ akp LeoNerd 17:00:38 -!- names: kwmiebach__ C-Keen defanor_ haroldwu clog tenq|out fikusz peterhil ebzzry evhan Blkt acieroid shivani_ m4burns zarul scoofy jrslepak ada2358 gabot stamourv hive-mind taylanub aap_ edw pcarrier pe7ed27 bars0 andares fadein dpk arrdem gluegadget Guest71443 jaimef stamourv` rudybot pchrist metasyntax aeth snits Riastradh ozzloy _8680_ dan64 kilimanjaro 17:01:34 alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD6395D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:02:02 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has joined #scheme 17:03:47 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:04:22 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 17:04:41 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:05 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 17:07:57 rudybot: () 17:07:58 theseb: your sandbox is ready 17:07:59 theseb: error: #:1:0: #%app: missing procedure expression; probably originally (), which is an illegal empty application in: (#%app) 17:08:23 hmm 17:08:35 i thought () was a atom and eval'd to itself 17:08:42 we may have gone thru this b4..guess i 4got 17:09:29 -!- chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:15:46 <`^_^v> '() 17:16:57 jeapostrophe [~jay@216-21-162-70.slc.googlefiber.net] has joined #scheme 17:16:57 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@216-21-162-70.slc.googlefiber.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:16:57 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 17:18:36 `^_^v: yes but i know at least SOME lisps consider () an atom 17:19:18 <`^_^v> ok, then you should realize that some do not 17:19:30 <`^_^v> '() is standard though 17:20:35 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:56 ozzzzzz [~ozzzzzz@123.117.148.7] has joined #scheme 17:22:13 () is an atom in Scheme, too 17:22:54 it's just not self-quoting in Scheme 17:23:16 DerGuteMoritz: wait......atoms like 234 "hello" and #t don't need quotes ..why not () then? 17:23:20 rudybot: 23 17:23:20 theseb: ; Value: 23 17:23:24 rudybot: "hello" 17:23:24 theseb: ; Value: "hello" 17:23:30 rudybot: #f 17:23:30 theseb: ; Value: #f 17:23:49 because it's not self-quoting 17:23:56 that's orthogonal to being an atom 17:24:09 DerGuteMoritz: i guess i'm wondering why scheme authors didn't think it clean to make ALL atoms self quoting 17:24:44 symbols are also not self quoting 17:25:14 rudybot: (begin (define a 1) a) 17:25:14 theseb: ; Value: 1 17:25:16 dunno why they chose not to make () self-quoting 17:25:18 DerGuteMoritz: there you go 17:25:36 notice a didn't need a quote 17:25:40 "a" 17:25:44 'a' 17:26:07 that's something else 17:26:21 -!- rustico [~rustico@190.55.37.246] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 17:26:30 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:26:38 I don't know the report's teminology right now, but you are binding an identifier there 17:27:01 which is syntactically represented by a symbol 17:27:21 rudybot: (begin (define a 1) (symbol? a)) 17:27:21 DerGuteMoritz: your sandbox is ready 17:27:21 DerGuteMoritz: ; Value: #f 17:27:27 see, it's not a symbol 17:27:37 chuck54 [~chuck54@cpc7-nrwh10-2-0-cust156.4-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 17:27:46 DerGuteMoritz: whoa...i didn't know there was a difference between an "identifier" and a "symbol" 17:27:55 yep, that's important 17:28:04 especially when you want to grok macros 17:28:06 what is the diff? 17:28:23 that's one of the reasons it's called define-syntax in Scheme I think 17:28:35 -!- ozzzzzz [~ozzzzzz@123.117.148.7] has quit [Quit: ] 17:29:07 DerGuteMoritz: in my simple world i just like to call all of it "variables" and be done with it 17:29:18 but lisp folks are more precise and subtle than me 17:29:20 well variables are named by symbols 17:29:31 but the variable is a separate thing 17:30:43 see...i guess i never had a need to think about it that carefully 17:30:47 i come from a math background.....variables represent values...that's it 17:30:58 that's all i need to know 17:30:59 then i move on 17:31:19 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:29 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 17:37:29 17:37:29 -!- names: ccl-logbot jeapostr1phe jeapostrophe alexei_ theseb jxv arubincloud nisstyre Shadox mango_mds oleo davexunit mornfall Tuplanolla gravicappa Ogion Kneferilis nalssi effy certainty cross omefire1 robot-beethoven stepnem ijp bjz jewel pjb jyc joneshf-laptop acarrico mario-goulart greghendershott gnomon wilfredh cataska 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