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[~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:42:12 pyro-: In Racket, the easiest way to create a circular list is to use SRFI 1's circular-list. 15:42:23 pyro-: Behind the scenes, it uses Racket's circular graph builder. 15:42:32 pyro-: It's pretty fancy-pants. 15:42:38 rudybot: (require srfi/1) 15:42:39 cky: Done. 15:42:46 rudybot: (define a (circular-list 1 2 3)) 15:42:47 cky: Done. 15:42:49 rudybot: a 15:42:49 cky: ; Value: #0=(1 2 3 . #0#) 15:43:40 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 15:45:27 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 15:47:15 -!- keenbug [~daniel@p4FE3998D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:50:30 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-148-9.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:51:11 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:52:50 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-163-227.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined 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samth surrounder 23:31:09 -!- names: aking antoszka _p4bl0 djanatyn Euthydemus Guest48950 jrslepak_ danking felipe gnomon whitequark dnm gf3 mario-goulart klutometis xian yosafbridge tessier tonyg tizoc inimino ttvd roderic C-Keen DerGuteMoritz fbs zedstar gabot Intensity macrobat aehrisch fds rudybot ski muep cmatei levi` finnrobi_ poucet_ alaricsp astertronistic Razz aidy framling clog ToxicFrog Axioplase_ duncanm daedric offby1 moll ray weinholt z0d micro erg ineiros ft teiresias 23:31:09 -!- names: Obfuscate rapacity 23:33:46 Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #scheme 23:34:13 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:35:43 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:49 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:41:09 -!- Dulak [~michael@unaffiliated/dulak] has quit [Ping timeout: 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seconds] 00:07:13 -!- ddp [~ddp@anon-136-25.relakks.com] has quit [Quit: ddp] 00:17:40 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:18:06 will you mind if I'd try to outline some points of Ruby-like language I'm planning, on this channel? 00:18:36 it has some ideological relations with Lisp, and also I'd like to hear any comments which you may have 00:20:04 (besides that: I know _what_ I'm trying to do and _why_ I'm doing that. And I think it has a niche it can fill.) 00:21:43 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #scheme 00:25:39 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 00:25:39 00:25:39 -!- names: ccl-logbot snizzo headius replore _schulte_ woonie MrFahrenheit Cosman246 Dulak shardz amgarching joyfulgirl ASau` cswords__ lonstein amoe Riastradh Neban toekutr ijp mmc freakazoid fgudin githogori pchrist pygospa jao REPLeffect jrapdx xpololz bytbox turbofail annodomini jonrafkind otakutomo MichaelRaskin priv_cooper soveran hkBst Adrinael tauntaun stchang joast drdo sphex penryu brendyn XTL tali713 rostayob masm twem2 asumu araujo elliottcable ozzloy 00:25:39 -!- names: metasyntax|work rixed_ acarrico evhan pjb Belaf eno Khisanth ve stepnem incubot arbscht rotty_ certainty rotty koeskoes zbigniew cky aoh kephas shachaf DGASAU preflex SHODAN dRbiG ecraven snarkyboojum pothos riverswain X-Scale cataska SeanTAllen Nisstyre wtetzner exobit pranq snorble leppie dotemacs dsmith GoKhlayeh devn mornfall markski1beck EvanR em foof elly eMBee Pepe_ confab peterbb Precious1etals tltstc Nshag ruru qu1j0t3 saccadewrk eli pyro- 00:25:39 -!- names: samth surrounder aking antoszka _p4bl0 djanatyn Euthydemus Guest48950 jrslepak_ danking felipe gnomon whitequark dnm gf3 mario-goulart klutometis xian yosafbridge tessier tonyg tizoc inimino ttvd roderic C-Keen DerGuteMoritz fbs zedstar gabot rapacity Obfuscate teiresias ft ineiros erg micro z0d weinholt ray moll offby1 daedric duncanm Axioplase_ ToxicFrog framling aidy Razz astertronistic alaricsp poucet_ finnrobi_ levi` cmatei muep ski rudybot fds 00:25:40 -!- names: aehrisch macrobat Intensity 00:25:48 which it then executes 00:26:28 the execution may require additional evaluating (i.e. if there's a "load 'file.rb'" somewhere), so these first two stages are repeated until there is no toplevel code left to run 00:26:38 after that, the codegen stage begins 00:27:12 stormbrew [~graham@d173-181-113-44.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 00:27:15 this language has obviously the very same object model, where everything is an object 00:27:44 for the first two states, the execution is achieved by simply interpreting the loaded AST 00:28:02 and the primitives (Fixnum#+, for example) will be provided by the bootstrap environment 00:28:18 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:28:22 I think I'll take rubinius for that, but it may turn out to be interpreter-agnostic 00:28:40 so, it will look like this: 00:28:49 -!- mmc [~michal@178-85-131-65.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:28:52 class Fixnum; def +(other); Primitive.fixnum_add(self, other); end; end 00:28:59 a valid Ruby code, that is 00:29:18 the codegen stage takes advantage of one guaranteed feature of the language 00:29:35 you can get AST of any method 00:30:04 hence, it will get the aforementioned AST, perform neccessary transformations to optimize it 00:30:24 then deduce the least required subset of functionality needed to make the code work, and translate it to machine code with LLVM 00:30:39 I'll describe what I mean by the "least required subset": 00:30:49 I have all of the code at the codegen stage 00:31:09 so, if I know that nothing has overrided Fixnum#+, I may not only ditch the dynamic method lookup on it 00:31:25 but even get rid of any method calls whatsoever and just inline that one or two instructions 00:31:55 Interesting---sorry, I'm not quite so qualified.... 00:31:59 -!- stormbrew [~graham@d173-181-113-44.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:32:12 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-151-202.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 00:32:20 in the same way, if nothing ever uses dynamic method invocation (Object#send method), then I can dump the method hash tables completely (given that nothing else uses them) 00:32:35 and just hardwire all the calls to the proper code chunks 00:32:40 stormbrew [~graham@d173-181-113-44.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 00:32:49 -!- woonie [~woonie@nusnet-199-161.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:32:50 ah, forgot to say an important bit 00:33:08 as you don't have types in Ruby, it will use Hindley-Milner type inference to deduce them 00:33:24 Ah 00:33:47 the obvious target for such an optimized implementation are embedded systems 00:33:59 so, I think there also should be an important implementation detail 00:34:20 each time the compiler does some de-optimization, it will write it in "bloat statistics" 00:34:39 e.g. if you write "Object.methods" somewhere, then it has to store the (huge) string table somewhere 00:34:50 which can instantaneously consume a lot of memory 00:35:09 I don't know too much about Ruby, except arrays 00:35:17 comments? questions? 00:35:27 That's because I conned myself into using a Ruby-based DSL for creating an IRC bot 00:35:28 I stepped away 00:35:39 you're talking about a subset of ruby syntax, right? 00:35:41 and I thought I could rely on the DSL's "documentation" 00:35:58 -!- ASau` [~user@95-25-38-176.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:35:59 headius: I see no reason I can't implement all of the Ruby syntax 00:36:14 you're not implementing a parser, I presume 00:36:18 there's a lot of wacky stuff 00:36:36 I will store AST in ruby-parser sexp format 00:36:43 it has been there for quite a long time 00:36:51 ASau` [~user@95-25-38-176.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 00:36:57 if I will ever have a need for parser, I just have to make or find a compatible 00:37:02 *compatible one 00:37:10 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-151-202.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:37:20 and rubinius already has a parser which can output that sexps 00:38:55 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 00:39:06 if you have a parser, then writing a mostly-compatible Ruby interpreter is not a very hard task 00:39:10 I've already did that 00:40:25 Cosman246: what parts of my, errr, "speech" were not clear for you due to Ruby specifity? 00:40:30 I'll explain everything 00:40:41 No, no, it's fine! 00:40:47 <_schulte_> why discuss this here and not in #ruby, what sort of feedback are you looking for? 00:40:51 I'm just a lowely grasshopper 00:40:54 *lowly 00:41:04 and I have little time 00:41:35 _schulte_: #ruby has a lot of experienced Ruby developers, and #scheme has a lot of experienced meta-language developers 00:42:05 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 00:42:18 <_schulte_> sounds more like you're implementing a compiler optimization pass rather than any sort of meta-programming facilities