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#scheme 10:51:46 cky [~cky@car.spillville.com] has joined #scheme 10:51:46 mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 11:02:05 gabot: slap rudybot 11:02:05 *gabot* slaps rudybot 11:08:54 you are up early, eli 11:10:13 -!- twem2 [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:14:00 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:16:31 Operaist2 [~OperaIst@ppp-124-120-216-71.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #scheme 11:16:50 http://pastebin.com/QHweWeHz why won't this work??? 11:18:37 probably because it isn't indented properly :) 11:18:38 http://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/style.txt 11:20:13 ijp [~user@host86-182-155-249.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 11:21:12 -!- Operaist2 [~OperaIst@ppp-124-120-216-71.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Client Quit] 11:22:17 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-160.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 11:24:55 wingo: s/early/very late/ 11:24:55 -!- mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:25:27 hehe 11:25:47 mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 11:29:22 twem2 [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has joined #scheme 11:33:13 snizzo [~quassel@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has joined #scheme 11:50:53 rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 11:59:21 -!- snizzo [~quassel@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:22 masm [~masm@bl19-165-231.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 12:02:21 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.32.55] has joined #scheme 12:03:01 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@193-64-22-193-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:05:17 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:08:37 peterhil [~peterhil@193-64-22-193-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #scheme 12:11:21 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-27-31.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 12:22:04 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:24:25 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-27-31.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has left #scheme 12:42:58 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:43:24 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 12:53:27 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-206-219.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 12:54:39 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:09:04 djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-yninlhhplcbezvdw] has joined #scheme 13:14:46 metasyntax|work [~taylor@fw-its-kt209a-2.dyn.ipfw.edu] has joined #scheme 13:16:18 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@76.15.192.54] has joined #scheme 13:17:52 Why can't scheme macros just evaluate in the environment they were defined in, instead of renaming all the symbols used? 13:18:21 If someone shadows something in the defining environment, I figure that's their problem 13:18:27 And they must haved wanted to 13:18:33 Maybe that breaks hygene though? 13:18:49 s/hygene/hygiene/ 13:18:57 macros don't evaluate, they are expanded 13:19:16 twem2_ [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has joined #scheme 13:20:06 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #scheme 13:20:33 Aren't most low level macros implemented as a lambda that operates on the AST of a form? 13:20:56 If you want to seperate the evaluation into another phase, that's cool.. but it still seems like evaluation to me 13:21:17 it's different from evaluating your actual code 13:22:19 I mean, mine aren't really. They're just a rewriter, which means it hands back the rewritten AST to the evaluator to run again in the same stack frame 13:22:36 I'm trying to implement hygienic macros though :/ 13:24:46 macros are really just (eval-macro (somelambda 'arg1 'arg1)) in my interpreter 13:25:09 eval-macro is implemented like special forms that rewrite the AST as well, just gives the results back to the evaluator to run again 13:25:16 in the same stack frame 13:29:01 mumble.net/~jar/pubs/scheme-of-things/easy-macros.ps <- relevant, and a pleasure to read 13:30:59 ijp: Thanks, I'll read it :) 13:54:13 -!- ravenexp [~a@mm-198-239-84-93.leased.line.mgts.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:59:25 So basically, if I just make a different kind of symbol (I'd call it an alias) that has an environment mapped to it as well as a symbol that is aliases, and have my lambda output those symbols instead of the ones defined in the macro template, I'd have hygienic macros? 13:59:50 gtoast [~gtoast@99-100-70-120.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 13:59:57 As long as I evaluate these aliases the right way, using the aliased symbol and mapped environment to get the value that is 14:00:17 -!- gtoast [~gtoast@99-100-70-120.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:03:55 gtoast [~gtoast@99-100-70-120.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 14:06:39 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:20:24 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has joined #scheme 14:24:35 -!- githogori_ [~githogori@c-24-7-1-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:24:49 githogori [~githogori@c-24-7-1-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:29:49 pandeiro [~pandeiro@177.32.217.182] has joined #scheme 14:31:58 boei [~boei@44.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:33:05 -!- gtoast [~gtoast@99-100-70-120.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gtoast] 14:33:09 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:33:30 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 14:35:41 tupi_ [~david@189.119.100.86] has joined #scheme 14:42:27 greetings, schemers 14:46:40 wingo: hello 14:51:26 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-147-29.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 14:53:33 ahinki_ [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #scheme 14:54:16 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:23 -!- ahinki_ is now known as ahinki 14:58:59 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:59:01 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-24-7-1-43.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:02:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-160.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:32 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #scheme 15:04:32 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 15:04:32 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 15:06:50 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:08:18 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #scheme 15:10:29 'lo wingo 15:12:18 What's the HAPS?!? 15:13:05 the haps!1! 15:13:15 The chicken crew are going to T-DOSE in Eindhoven this weekend! Will we see you again? 15:13:19 speaking of haps, i have to write another talk 15:13:25 aw, no, unfortunately! 15:13:31 Where's Riastradh gone? 15:13:36 but fosdem is only a few months away 15:13:55 weekend after next i am going to fscons in gothenburg tho 15:14:27 i will brainwash the masses into programming in scheme 15:14:40 Weekend after next I am going to London to visit a former nuclear bunker! 15:14:45 yow! 15:14:48 that's some haps! 15:14:57 http://www.secretnuclearbunker.com/ 15:17:37 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:18:38 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 15:20:40 ahinki_ [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #scheme 15:20:50 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:20:52 -!- ahinki_ is now known as ahinki 15:22:29 jackhammer2022 [4c770d90@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.119.13.144] has joined #scheme 15:29:00 Couldn't I just examine my rewriter function after defining a macro, and replace all the symbols in the lambda (the function that operates on the AST) definition with their actual bound values from the defining environment? 15:29:22 *imphasing* is attempting to implement hygienic macros 15:32:40 imphasing: IIRC that doesn't cover all cases 15:33:08 Er... something to do with your macro expanding to (let ((temp ...)) ...), where the second ... (which is code passed into the macro) uses 'temp'? 15:33:36 You need to rename 'temp' to something that is not already bound when the macro is used 15:33:41 Wouldn't that be fixed by requiring the user to use gensym for introduced bindings though? 15:33:48 This is very low-level right now 15:34:07 Yes, you could require the macro authoer to use a gensym rather than names like "temp" in that case 15:35:03 -!- cky [~cky@car.spillville.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:35:03 cky [~cky@fsf/member/cky] has joined #scheme 15:35:40 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 15:37:43 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #scheme 15:42:09 Huh, that was easy to implement... 15:43:06 When a rewriter macro is defined, now after I get the lambda that was passed to (define-rewriter ...) I rewrite the definition of the lambda so that any symbols that have bindings in the macro's defining environment are replaced with that value 15:43:38 So for a macro like: (define-macro (when expr consequent) `(if ,expr ,consequent)) 15:43:53 I can now do (let ((if display)) (when #t "yay")) and it still gives me "yay" 15:44:17 I'm not sure this solves EVERY problem with my macros though 15:44:27 I'm using gensym to introduce new bindings inside macros 15:45:37 have you taken a look at some other expander, like the alexpander ? 15:46:03 Nope, my macros are extrememly basic, there's no expansion phase.. everything happens at the same time 15:46:11 That might be a good idea to implement :/ 15:47:27 What value is your 'if' bound to? 15:47:27 have you read the kffd paper? 15:47:52 Depends on the environment, in that example it gets bound to what display is bound to, which is a primitive function 15:48:21 I allow two kinds of evaluation, (symbol arg1 arg2...) and ( arg1 arg2) 15:48:35 There can be an actual primitive as the function position, that is 15:48:40 wingo: No, I haven't.. 15:48:53 I'll check it out :) 15:49:15 imphasing: I mean, when you use that macro that expands to an if, and you replace the if with what it's bound to, you put in a special "if primitive" object that's not a symbol so isn't rebindable, right? 15:49:32 That's the way I'd always imagined it should be done, and wondered if that's what people actually do ;-) 15:49:39 imphasing: the first one on http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=+Hygienic+macro+expansion&hl=en&btnG=Search&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=on 15:49:40 alaricsp: Yes, that's what I do 15:49:45 http://tinyurl.com/3jladm7 15:49:48 *alaricsp* high-fives self 15:50:25 ravenexp [~a@mm-198-239-84-93.leased.line.mgts.by] has joined #scheme 15:50:47 it has an implementation in a page and a half. 15:50:58 the `(if ,expr ,consequent) gets rewritten so that bound symbols in there (if is bound in the defining environment) are replaced with their bindings 15:51:13 wingo: Thanks :D 15:51:17 this reminds me of an issue i had a week or two ago 15:51:28 where i was trying to use define as a literal keyword 15:52:28 i.e. this does not 'work' in the way I hoped in Chicken-- related reason? http://telegraphics.com.au/svn/puzzles/trunk/quad/ch11_with-definitions.scm 15:52:28 http://tinyurl.com/4yzhhpd 15:54:02 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6-rc2] 15:54:19 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has joined #scheme 15:56:29 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.212.207] has joined #scheme 16:01:16 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6-rc2] 16:01:21 Yaaaay it works :D 16:01:40 Infinite list generators with my new (supposedly) hygienic macros work :) 16:01:45 :-D 16:01:58 It not only works, it works infinitely! 16:02:19 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has joined #scheme 16:04:36 Well, it works up to at least 50 prime numbers :P 16:04:48 I'm not sure it could get the last one 16:07:44 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111019081014]] 16:08:23 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 16:08:55 http://memegenerator.net/instance/10072426 16:09:42 slightly related! 16:11:02 hee hee 16:11:17 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:11:34 DerGuteMoritz: :) 16:12:27 -!- djcb [djcb@nat/nokia/x-yninlhhplcbezvdw] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:13:39 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme 16:14:01 Anyone have some good ideas for how I could test the hygiene of my macros? 16:14:20 . o O ( Put them in little petri dishes overnight? ) 16:14:38 I think you need a test suite of different cases, but I'm not sure where to get an exhaustive list from 16:15:18 hehe 16:17:45 You have chosen NOT to be hygienic in the case of identifiers bound by the macro expansion, requiring the user to use gensym, so any pre-existing exhaustive list would need trimming to remove those cases anyway 16:18:20 Right, I'm hoping that having lexical scope for my macros will allow me to automate the gensyming as a macro itself 16:18:34 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-143-123.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:18:38 this is the basic, low level macro facility except it's also lexically scoped now 16:18:48 Which makes it hygienic in some sense I suppose 16:18:57 Just not like define-syntax and such 16:19:22 Well, macros are eithe rhygienic or not; hygienic macro *systems* either allow, encourage or require, the production of hygienic macros :-) 16:19:42 So your system is a hygienic one if it at least *allows* hygienic macros 16:20:04 It allows them if you can handle using gensym I guess :) 16:20:12 githogori [~githogori@137.sub-75-208-208.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 16:20:12 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-143-123.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:20:18 I'd like to be able to automatically produce hygienic macros though 16:20:43 It's useful to be able to break hygiene sometims 16:20:55 And there's degrees of hygiene-breaking 16:21:12 Anaphoric ifs leak a symbol into the context within the macro 16:21:35 And some record systems rely on turning passed-in symbols into strings, appending stuff to them as strings, then turning them back into new symbols, and expanding to definitions of those symbols 16:21:54 Which is a different kind of hygiene breaking, as it defeats renamings 16:22:12 tricky strings 16:22:51 Both are risky strategies; some would champion a macro system that disallows both, some would complain about losing anaphorisms, and some (fewer, perhaps) would complain about losing symbol surgery 16:24:53 Hm, I guess I could write a macro that analyzes a macro template like (define-macro (blah) `(let ((a b)))) for local bindings, then rewrites any introduced variables with gensym... 16:25:45 In fact, I could make a macro that's like (define-hygienic (blah) (let ((a b)))) and turn that into the quasiquote template and rewrite bindings there 16:26:05 You'll need to know all the ways of introducign local bindings to do that 16:26:21 Eg, expand the macros used inside the macro so it all boils down to lambda (even all the let variants)? 16:26:46 Intensity [N9oSyPT094@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #scheme 16:28:25 The only way to introduce a local binding in lambda :D 16:28:35 Ah, yeah that's what you meant 16:28:46 Yeah, if I did that, it would make it a lot easier.. 16:28:54 Instead of analyzing every form that could introduce bindings 16:29:03 -!- luist [~luist@189.59.201.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:08 go read those papers! 16:29:33 luist [~luist@189.59.201.53] has joined #scheme 16:29:45 vk0 [~vk@ip-23-75.bnaa.dk] has joined #scheme 16:32:44 -!- jackhammer2022 [4c770d90@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.119.13.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:34:02 gtoast [~gtoast@166.137.8.148] has joined #scheme 16:39:23 daveo [~daveo@97.73.171.234] has joined #scheme 16:41:56 imphasing: And other macros might create new binding-introducing forms, and then be used inside macros. 16:42:11 So you reall would need to expand 'em all into a Base Language With Only One Binding Form 16:42:19 ...There can be ONLY ONE! 16:49:51 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:01:45 -!- oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:09 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6-rc2] 17:05:23 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:09:12 denisw [~denisw@dslb-188-103-185-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 17:10:06 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.212.207] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:11:32 joyfulgirl [~ivy@209-6-79-248.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 17:11:38 -!- joyfulgirl [~ivy@209-6-79-248.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:11:38 joyfulgirl [~ivy@unaffiliated/joyfulgirl] has joined #scheme 17:14:36 EmmanuelOga|2 [~EmmanuelO@190.244.27.236] has joined #scheme 17:20:07 -!- githogori [~githogori@137.sub-75-208-208.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:04 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-72.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:22:27 jackhammer2022 [4c770d90@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.119.13.144] has joined #scheme 17:24:03 Hi all 17:24:10 I am a newbie scheme coder 17:24:58 this is a conversion of the python code http://pastebin.com/KGs3gLhy at http://paste.lisp.org/display/125639 17:25:35 But my list comprehension is not alright as the output is nowhere closer to the python code's output :( 17:27:18 -!- daveo [~daveo@97.73.171.234] has left #scheme 17:28:30 -!- EmmanuelOga|2 is now known as EmmanuelOga 17:30:29 -!- rapacity [~prwg@li98-163.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:30:30 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #scheme 17:39:27 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 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bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 16:10:52 dca` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 16:10:57 hi 16:11:19 how do i pretty print #[compound-procedure x] in debugger? 16:11:24 is it possible at all? 16:15:08 That's MIT Scheme, right? Try (pp foo) if it's named FOO, or try (pp #@123) if it printed as #[compound-procedure 123 x]. 16:15:15 yes MIT 16:15:56 11 debug> (pp #@102) 16:15:56 ( 16:15:56 Unknown command character 16:15:56 16:16:01 e 16:16:24 That is, type `e' and RET, and then type `(pp #@102)'. 16:16:45 heya Riastradh, good to see you around 16:16:46 right! let me try... 16:17:05 That, or `v' instead of `e', if you want to go straight back to the debugger prompt. 16:17:09 it worked! 16:17:09 Hi. 16:17:22 (pp #@102) 16:17:22 (lambda (y) 16:17:22 (average y (/ x (pow y (- n 1))))) 16:17:22 ;Unspecified return value 16:17:26 I'm not around. I just exploded back on Saturday; that's all. 16:17:30 thanx, Riastradh 16:18:35 Also, I'm not around because it's time for lunkfast. 16:18:36 *poof* 16:19:41 -!- bbsch [~bbs@128.135.100.102] has quit [Quit: bbsch] 16:20:09 and how do i get back to debugger prompt from REPL ? 16:21:12 metasyntax|work [~taylor@fw-its-kt209a-2.dyn.ipfw.edu] has joined #scheme 16:25:29 realitygrill [~realitygr@204.38.4.80] has joined #scheme 16:26:26 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@204.38.4.80] has quit [Client Quit] 16:28:17 bbsch [~bbs@c-67-173-0-18.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:28:50 -!- pumpkin is now known as copumpkin 16:29:03 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:31:02 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 16:31:19 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:34:09 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Operation 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incubot kniu alaricsp rapacity_ kpal wtetzner z0d buhman certainty Axioplase_ dnm gnomon lonstein Guest39521 aspect EmmanuelOga bytbox keenbug nowhere_man epsil ijp leppie dnolen kuribas pandeiro masm sphex_ jwd_ githogori jonrafkind drdo snizzo chromaticwt annodomini X-Scale noam snorble rff mmc homie jao myrkraverk gffa kk` pygospa otakutomo MrFahrenheit 22:42:20 -!- names: dostoyevsky pchrist stepnem drwho ToxicFrog rudybot Brendan_T ve dsmith em GoKhlayeh nego pjb antoszka cmatei Euthy markskilbeck sloyd bzzbzz ASau levi zedstar rotty_ C-Keen Iceland_jack preflex PreciousMetals samth_away Nshag SidH_ confab felipe XTL roderic snarkyboojum shoerain vk0 ft PfhorSlayer micro rotty tizoc finnrobi gabot fds poucet muep clog turon danking shardz aking Obfuscate duncanm sepi sjamaan evhan stamourv jimrees_ eno _p4bl0 22:42:20 -!- names: DerGuteMoritz jrslepak_ Quadrescence joast pranq ecraven ski ravenexp offby1 elly cky Intensity aoh tessier Adrinael jaimef ineiros kanru yosafbridge Saeren eli inimino EOF-sensei lusory Khisanth asumu weinholt elliottcable cataska Pepe_ aidy teiresias yamanu twem2 djanatyn dRbiG saccadewrk gf3 eMBee tauntaun qu1j0t3 zbigniew daedric amgarching fbs SHODAN rixed tonyg mario-goulart stchang arbscht ray foof shachaf xian moll 22:43:21 aehrisch [~aehrisch@vhost.knauel.org] has joined #scheme 22:47:16 amoe [~amoe@host-78-147-155-146.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 22:50:55 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 22:54:02 -!- rapacity_ is now known as rapacity 22:58:37 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-12-27.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:49 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 23:01:24 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:05:35 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:06:08 -!- keenbug [~daniel@p4FDB6041.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:09:26 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-148-9.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:14 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-7-112.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 23:10:32 *offby1* smells klutometis 23:10:37 rudybot: seen klutometis 23:10:37 *offby1: klutometis was seen joining in #scheme twenty-nine minutes ago, and then klutometis was seen changing their nick to Guest39521 in klutometis.wikitex.org twenty-eight minutes ago 23:10:51 Guest39521: you can run but you can't hide 23:11:53 whitequark [~whitequar@2002:1fba:61b3::1] has joined #scheme 23:11:58 -!- pandeiro [~pandeiro@177.32.221.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:14:09 whitequa1k [~whitequar@2002:1fba:61b3::1] has joined #scheme 23:14:28 -!- whitequa1k [~whitequar@2002:1fba:61b3::1] has quit [Client Quit] 23:14:38 ã 23:14:58 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-132.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:15:51 Sounds Portuguese. 23:16:16 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-148-9.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 23:16:27 trust foofs cat to speak multiple languages 23:17:04 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-84.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:17:19 Oh... she hit the wide '?' 23:18:08 _and_ the Enter key. 23:18:09 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-132.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:19:31 That time I hit enter to see if the connection was still up - didn't notice she had typed anything. 23:20:41 My cat is still alive and growing stronger! But she'll still need more surgery as her jaw still has bits of wire sticking out of it :-( 23:20:49 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-132.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:20:53 Oh dear, too many uses of "still" in a row there 23:21:24 alaricsp: did she get in a fight, or have cancer, or ... ? 23:21:33 I've been trying to get a photo of her face, but the damned thing NEVER SITS STILL when I'm present, so all I get are blurs! 23:21:35 Why does her jaw have bits of wire in it? 23:22:01 offby1: It's hard to say, but it *looks* like she was hit by a car, then got lost, and wandered around the countryside slowly starving with her face all smashed up for a week or so 23:22:31 -!- kuribas [~user@94-227-37-60.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:22:32 damn 23:22:34 glad you got her back 23:22:42 Somebody found her and brought her to us, and we took her to the vet, who was very skeptical that she would survive as she was a big mess, and covered in maggots that were feasting on the rotting dried blood in her fur, and generally festering 23:22:50 TMI 23:23:21 ;_; 23:23:38 They wired her jaw back together, but due to the amount of flesh they had to cut away as it was festering, bits of bone are still exposed, along with all the wires they used to hold her jaw back together 23:23:56 However, she cleaned up nicely, and is now even cleaning herself and eating solid food! 23:24:32 She really looked like a zombie when we got her back as she was still caked in blood, plus her face being a mess 23:24:48 wow, alaricsp 23:25:07 Now, she looks almost normal unless she sits still for long enough for you to see! She's all zooming about and rubbing herself on people and meowing and the usual stuff! 23:25:12 she'll have exciting stories to tell her grandchildren 23:25:27 that's fairly amazing, actually 23:25:32 She's got gaps in her fur where they had to shave her, of course, but they're growing back 23:25:40 Yes... I'm in awe of her survival powers 23:26:01 they say cats heal amazingly from broken bones, but perhaps it's other stuff too 23:26:41 I wish I was as awesome as a cat. 23:27:54 We're still keeping her shut in the bathroom most of the time, mainly so she doesn't go and climb onto our bed and curl up and then ooze onto the sheets; she's still got some infected wounds! 23:28:13 Visit to the vet again on Tuesday to see about reconstructing that jaw... 23:28:23 Anyway, bedtime for me. Night #scheme! 23:29:49 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:33:47 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 23:40:14 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.130.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:44:26 rgrinberg [~rudi@24.52.246.61] has joined #scheme 23:47:12 drdo` [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 23:47:53 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.231] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:48:51 -!- drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:53:31 alaricsp, The very best cats are the ones that you find broken and ripped up and you nurse back to health. 23:53:48 alaricsp, They have a whole different attitude. 23:54:44 *dsmith* fondly remembers "Ralph" 23:56:15 -!- whitequark [~whitequar@2002:1fba:61b3::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:00:15 -!- epsil [~vegard@ti0145a380-0740.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 00:02:26 -!- stepnem 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06:18:53 Operaist2 [~OperaIst@ppp-124-120-68-64.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #scheme 06:19:07 can someone help me with SICP? 06:21:27 only if you ask something 06:32:37 SICP 1.34 pat about newton's method 06:32:59 it says that you can solve for x^2 by finding the zero of function y -> y^2-x 06:33:03 how does that work? 06:34:05 -!- chromaticwt [~user@67-41-15-81.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:34:10 chromati` [~user@67-41-15-81.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 06:37:59 -!- freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:43:15 anyone? 06:47:54 Operaist2: Finding the zero means finding a y such that y^2 - x = 0. 06:48:10 Your x is fixed, so the value of y is what you wanted. 06:49:19 how is the = 0 part implicit in the equation? 06:49:37 It's not implicit. It's just what finding a zero means. 06:50:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_of_a_function 06:50:25 The first equation on that page is what I'm referring to. 06:52:34 y^2 - x = 0 -> x = y^2 -> y = sqrt(x) ... or were you asking anything different? 06:53:32 oh ok i get it now 06:53:34 thx babes 06:56:09 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:01:13 wolfpython [~wolf@114.222.251.218] has joined #scheme 07:01:24 Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 07:02:08 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:13:49 so i have to define something before i use it? 07:14:03 like define x 100 before i say + x 2 07:14:16 yea 07:15:36 to evaluate (+ x 2) the elements of the list will have to be evaluated first. symbols evaluate to whatever they are bound to. it's not a meaningful expression if x isn't bound to anything 07:15:46 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host50.190-226-26.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:22:33 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-103-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:26:41 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@114.222.251.218] has quit [Quit: ] 07:27:40 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:40:32 -!- tom_i [~thomasing@ingserv.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:53:32 but if i had define x later on in the source? 07:55:12 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:10:41 Operaist2: a source file is evaluated from top to bottom, so defining something after having attempted to use it is not going to work. 08:10:54 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:27:37 -!- noam [~noam@46.120.51.147] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 08:28:15 noam [~noam@46.120.51.147] has joined #scheme 08:31:00 dca [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has 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Leaving.] 11:52:13 dca [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 11:55:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-80.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:58 dca` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 12:02:36 -!- dca [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:06:38 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-7-112.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:08:22 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-7-112.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 12:10:18 (gdb) p trunc(0.3) 12:10:18 $3 = -1209978848 12:10:27 ??? 12:14:49 Well. 12:20:41 dca`` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 12:22:13 -!- dca` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:25:29 replore [~replore@ntkngw268248.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:26:01 p /f trunc(0.3), iirc 12:28:09 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.231] has joined #scheme 12:29:18 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-7-112.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 12:32:17 huh... it knows the return type, why wouldn't it use the correct printer? 12:35:07 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-7-112.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 12:39:06 (gdb) p /lf (0.3L - trunc(0.3L)) 12:39:07 $24 = -400.70000000000000001110223024625157 12:40:42 sweet ;p 12:40:46 lol 12:41:22 Belaf: That's the cause of the rationalize bug you reported, which only occurs on Linux. 12:43:16 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:44:27 dca``` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 12:44:54 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #scheme 12:46:05 -!- dca`` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:46:05 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-125.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:46:32 ... and there should be no possible way for the result to become negative :/ 12:46:58 foof: we're cross-channeling :) 12:47:55 is that an overflow error? 12:49:54 also, the (possible) issue in sexp_double_to_ratio() would most likely only affect 32bit hosts, If I understand it correctly. Are you on 64bits? 12:50:58 Yes, on both machines, but I can reproduce your bug on Linux and not OS X. 12:52:53 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bbl] 12:58:41 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-7-112.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:02:40 dca```` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 13:03:17 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-7-112.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 13:04:31 -!- dca``` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:10:32 pandeiro [~pandeiro@177.32.221.50] has joined #scheme 13:14:00 No, there's definitely something wrong: 13:14:00 (gdb) p trunc(1.5) 13:14:00 $49 = 1345294337 13:15:14 what about 1.5f ? 13:15:39 -!- bytbox [~s@129.2.129.231] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:15:51 Belaf: I stopped using gdb, it's garbage. Just put a printf in the loop. 13:16:03 ... although the bug is fixed now :P 13:18:23 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #scheme 13:20:57 -!- epsil [~vegard@ti0145a380-0740.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 13:21:19 Thanks for catching that! 13:24:29 gdb is so often so completely broken 13:24:45 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-7-112.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:25:55 dca````` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 13:27:19 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-7-112.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 13:27:35 -!- dca```` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:44:36 dca`````` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 13:46:01 -!- dca````` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:46:12 -!- whitequark [~whitequar@2002:1fba:61b3::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:46:16 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-7-112.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 13:47:02 rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has joined #scheme 13:47:10 whitequark [~whitequar@2002:1fba:61b3::1] has joined #scheme 13:52:02 -!- noam [~noam@46.120.51.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:52:17 noam [~noam@46.120.51.147] has joined #scheme 13:52:34 -!- chromaticwt [~user@67-41-15-81.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:02:58 -!- dca`````` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:03:52 dca [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 14:06:41 -!- dca [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:07:38 dca [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 14:08:24 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-248-18.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:16:59 kk` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has joined #scheme 14:16:59 -!- kk` [~kk@77.107.164.131] has quit [Changing host] 14:16:59 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 14:17:39 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-60-199.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 14:23:12 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 14:24:04 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:27:45 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-7-112.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 14:27:53 dca` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 14:28:44 foof: good, everything works now. Sorry for disappearing this way, but today my connection to freenode is awful... 14:29:24 -!- dca [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:31:09 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 14:32:21 as for gdb, I can't see what is going on, but the result seems to depend on the executable being debugged: with the newly compiled chibi-scheme I get this 14:32:21 (gdb) p trunc(0.3) 14:32:21 $1 = -512 14:32:21 (gdb) p trunc(1.5) 14:32:21 $2 = -512 14:32:28 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 14:35:09 trunc seems brokeb on my 64-bit x86 Linux box; will try on a 32-bit NetBSD if I get a monite 14:39:15 epsil [~vegard@ti0145a380-0740.bb.online.no] has joined #scheme 14:48:16 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-7-112.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:49:05 dca`` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 14:50:55 -!- dca` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:53:31 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-7-112.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 14:59:14 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 15:03:24 This seems related to our trunc() issue: http://askubuntu.com/questions/27019/strlen-returns-incorrect-value-when-called-in-gdb 15:03:25 http://tinyurl.com/ct58uvt 15:03:54 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 15:04:23 apparently gdb has issues with functions which are builtin into gcc. 15:05:05 -!- confab [~win7@c-24-10-60-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:05:16 btw, with all these disconnections I only see some of the messages being posted here, sorry. 15:07:14 snizzo [~Claudio@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has joined #scheme 15:10:19 dca``` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 15:10:47 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:16 -!- dca`` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:14:21 ijp [~user@host86-177-156-235.range86-177.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 15:18:38 bytbox [~s@129.2.129.231] has joined #scheme 15:20:30 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-7-112.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 15:20:36 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:21:41 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-32-7-112.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 15:26:48 snizzo [~Claudio@158.110.154.150] has joined #scheme 15:27:31 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:27:53 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:29:00 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 15:31:34 dca```` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 15:33:19 -!- dca``` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:34:45 X-Scale [email@2001:5c0:1400:b::b793] has joined #scheme 15:36:07 tricus [~tricus@odin1.nomads.utk.edu] has joined #scheme 15:38:02 freakazoid [~seanl@c-67-164-106-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:42:11 kuribas [~user@d515248D4.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 15:42:48 -!- incubot [incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:19 incubot [~incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 15:46:56 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-103-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:47:29 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:54 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 15:52:48 dca````` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #scheme 15:53:20 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-103-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:54:13 -!- dca```` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]