04:48:37 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 04:48:37 04:48:37 -!- names: ccl-logbot duncan_bayne ckrailo elderman Euthydemus Adamant ebzzry pygospa jcowan xwl_ copumpkin ysph drdo evhan pchrist leppie tarpsocks pothos homie wbooze Riastradh qebab githogori DT`` blueadept nteon bzzbzz ToxicFrog tr3x Pepe_ mario-goulart aidalgol peterhil` skeptical_p elly ski cmatei C-Keen Hal9k rasterbar docgnome yosafbridge incandenza klutometis tizoc rmrfchik_ Kovensky bremner_ _p4bl0 pjb Jafet metasyntax Nshag MapMan Khisanth pantsd askhader 04:48:37 -!- names: stamourv specbot weinholt poucet Caleb-- osoleve zilt cpach duncanm kanru levi Obfuscate aoh DerGuteMoritz ray ASau` rotty ve Leonidas dfeuer Nisstyre incubot gnomon muks kniu oivindbi acarrico offby1 rudybot lechon minsa LN^^ snorble_ araujo nowhereman amoe minion lisppaste rien clog joast zbigniew sigue nome peddie eno arbscht ineiros twem2 stepnem inimino dRbiG shardz tessier jeapostrophe augiedoggie micro tmi snarkyboojum felipe preflex samth aking 04:48:37 -!- names: timchen1` foof tonyg jeff___ alexgordon cataska borism mmc certaint1 ecraven qsun Adrinael sjamaan fds mornfall elf danking cky simontwo_ rrm3 ozzloy Gertm chrissbx antoszka Zol em sloyd_ ada2358 04:48:46 I have a quick Scheme question: is there a standard way of accessing information about the environment from within Scheme? E.g. get a list of all symbols and their definitions? 04:50:29 No portable way. 04:50:34 Ah, I didn't think so. 04:51:03 I was planning to extend the Biwa Scheme interpreter to expose those objects to the underlying Scheme interface, so I could then write Scheme code to save the state of the interpreter as s-expressions. 04:51:08 I don't even know an implementation that makes it possible. 04:51:12 -!- xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-levgwluvbowhlwgk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:26 Well, if I'm successful, Biwa will in a few months ;-) 04:57:47 The basic idea is that I want to build a browser-based REPL for developing web-apps, that will allow trivial deployment. So (push-app "foo") might take all the definitions in the current session in the form of s-expressions and push them to a server where other people could run them. 04:58:04 But AFAICT this would only work if you could access the interpreter state from within Scheme itself, hence my question. 04:59:45 You can write a new define macro that captures the bindings, then chains to the normal define. 05:00:00 Oooooh. 05:00:31 Ditto for the define-macro macro in the case of Biwa. 05:00:32 Nice. 05:00:48 And that _would_ be portable ... 05:03:43 And you could make it do versioning, too. You could see a history of definitions for any symbol, & revert to any arbitrary version ... 05:11:20 eut [~m@cpe-24-24-136-239.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:20:28 -!- duncan_bayne [ca7e62a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.126.98.162] has quit [Quit: Thanks all :-)] 05:29:20 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 05:31:04 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:35:41 adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 05:41:29 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:46:09 -!- ebzzry [~aoeu@203.213.202.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:46:48 ebzzry [~aoeu@203.213.202.186] has joined #scheme 05:50:12 -!- elderman [~elderman@AMarseille-152-1-34-246.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:50:48 elderman [~elderman@AMarseille-152-1-34-246.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 05:52:24 Adamant_ [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 05:54:12 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:54:12 -!- Adamant_ is now known as Adamant 05:57:10 Mango-chan [Mango-chan@unaffiliated/mango-chan] has joined #scheme 05:57:20 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-123.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 05:59:14 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:01:44 -!- nteon [~nteon@c-98-210-195-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:46 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04:59 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:05:23 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:17:56 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-74-68-112-189.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:18:06 eli [~eli@champlain.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 06:18:28 -!- eli [~eli@champlain.ccs.neu.edu] has left #scheme 06:20:24 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 06:21:38 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:23:32 -!- blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:30:03 -!- ebzzry [~aoeu@203.213.202.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:30:11 aoeu_ [~aoeu@203.213.202.186] has joined #scheme 06:32:31 -!- ysph [~user@adsl-89-11-71.mgm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:38:42 DrDuck [~duck@216.186.151.63] has joined #scheme 06:47:44 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-123.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:48:50 adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 06:54:57 -!- augiedoggie [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:58:30 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:05:33 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:10:08 augiedoggie [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has joined #scheme 07:18:25 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:21:07 -!- DrDuck [~duck@216.186.151.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:30:34 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-71.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 07:42:32 Is there anything resembling XPath in MIT-Scheme's XML support? 07:45:19 adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 07:55:31 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-71-170-15-148.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:01:23 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-140-178.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:56 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:04:06 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-140-178.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:18:55 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 09:02:14 skld [~skld@unaffiliated/skld] has joined #scheme 09:02:37 -!- skld [~skld@unaffiliated/skld] has left #scheme 09:13:40 masm [~masm@bl15-133-149.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 09:13:56 -!- masm [~masm@bl15-133-149.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #scheme 09:16:46 xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-dfmiyritbfuapzli] has joined #scheme 09:23:14 adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 09:32:50 imran_sr [~imran@75-18-254-4.lightspeed.uncyca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 09:36:47 -!- myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:56 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:41:54 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 09:49:52 -!- xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-dfmiyritbfuapzli] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:54:55 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:29 -!- Caleb-- [thedude@bzq-109-64-205-4.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:59:26 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:02:42 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 10:04:56 Kleif [~Kleif@202.Red-81-37-78.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 10:16:12 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #scheme 10:36:25 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:44:53 -!- Kleif [~Kleif@202.Red-81-37-78.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:45:21 -!- skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-79-181-184-222.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:55:13 -!- imran_sr [~imran@75-18-254-4.lightspeed.uncyca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:57:46 skeptical_p [~rononovsk@bzq-109-65-185-85.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 10:59:16 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has joined #scheme 11:02:12 alaricsp [~alaric@geniedb.hotdesktop.biz] has joined #scheme 11:02:47 aleix [~aleix@211.Red-83-33-88.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 11:03:41 Kleif [~Kleif@202.Red-81-37-78.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 11:04:09 -!- aleix [~aleix@211.Red-83-33-88.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:18:22 Hi. 11:18:31 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 11:20:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-71.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:20:44 It's my understanding that Scheme uses call/cc (evolved from the J operator?) to manipulate control-flow, while Common Lisp uses non-local-exits (tagbody, go, labels). What are other interesting constructs or facilities (even if not currently in use or historical) for control-flow manipulation? 11:23:57 partial (or composable) continuations are fairly different form the plain call/cc 11:24:14 see for example http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.11.3425 11:25:47 It seems my browser is a bit lazy and the page won't load, is it the one about shift/reset and delimited continuations? 11:26:01 I've played a bit with them in Scala. 11:26:10 yep, the final shift 11:27:24 Caleb-- [thedude@109.64.205.4] has joined #scheme 11:30:15 f8l [~f8l@87-205-239-131.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #scheme 11:32:02 Harrold_ [~quassel@70.50.219.248] has joined #scheme 11:37:54 -!- aoeu_ [~aoeu@203.213.202.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:18 aoeu_ [~aoeu@203.213.202.186] has joined #scheme 11:38:46 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 11:44:43 -!- copumpkin 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-!- RaceCondition [~erik@82.131.19.252.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: RaceCondition] 19:34:57 choas [~lars@p5792C2AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:37:43 ecraven: how do you pronounce "srfi" such that "an srfi" made sense: you don't say "ess arr eff eye," do you? 19:38:26 planetPlosion_ [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:39:56 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-183-86.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:40:30 -!- jimrees_ [~jimrees@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:40:50 -!- planetPlosion [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:40:50 -!- incubot [incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:52 -!- planetPlosion_ is now known as planetPlosion 19:41:31 incubot [incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 19:42:10 klutometis: that's how i've always imagined it... what do you say, "surfy"? 19:42:14 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:43:06 jimrees_ [~jimrees@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 19:43:14 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:44:10 evhan: yeah; the four-syllable equivalent always seemed untenable. 19:45:06 on the other hand, i did "see dee arr" for a long time; until i "cuddered." 19:47:42 tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 19:48:14 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:48:26 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 19:48:36 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-166-136.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 19:50:58 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C2938.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:52:01 xale [~xale@2001:4b98:dc0:51:216:3eff:fef2:58dd] has joined #scheme 19:56:54 groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #scheme 19:57:16 -!- hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:57:52 folks, can somebody explain why does this not work? 19:57:56 http://paste.lisp.org/display/120882 20:01:28 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-80-9.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 20:04:06 -!- mmc2 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:04:21 krey_ [~krey@78-131-63-61.pool.hdsnet.hu] has joined #scheme 20:05:12 hello, i'm new to scheme and I'm trying to implement a generator using call/cc (apparently it's trivial). can somebody help? 20:06:15 ysph [~user@75-143-85-15.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has joined #scheme 20:08:20 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 20:10:32 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-25.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:12:20 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@94-194-200-54.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:14:44 -!- vk0 [~vk@ip-23-75.bnaa.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:16:27 -!- rononovski_ [~rononovsk@109.64.185.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:16:39 vk0 [~vk@ip-23-75.bnaa.dk] has joined #scheme 20:21:45 mmc2 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 20:23:16 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-166-136.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:24:18 krey_: did you see this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call-with-current-continuation#Examples 20:24:26 masm [~masm@bl16-183-86.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 20:25:02 xale: that's racket, isn't it? 20:25:06 yep 20:29:26 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:39:21 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:24 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-166-136.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 20:42:40 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:43:59 pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 20:43:59 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 20:43:59 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 20:44:47 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:44:55 -!- pumpkin is now known as copumpkin 20:45:46 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 20:54:07 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:54:48 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:55:20 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 20:56:27 ckrailo_ [~ckrailo@208.86.167.250] has joined #scheme 20:57:43 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:57:43 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:59:27 groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #scheme 21:01:02 ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has joined #scheme 21:02:32 -!- ckrailo_ [~ckrailo@208.86.167.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:04:07 femtooo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 21:07:41 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:08:07 tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.102.125] has joined #scheme 21:09:34 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 21:11:05 -!- emporas [~emporas@athedsl-169325.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:11:24 emporas [~emporas@athedsl-169325.home.otenet.gr] has joined #scheme 21:14:25 ckrailo_ [~ckrailo@208.86.167.250] has joined #scheme 21:14:48 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 21:15:29 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:15:31 screwtape [~pete@cpe-173-171-151-211.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:16:15 Hey, is there a way to save a transcript from the MIT Scheme interpreter? 21:18:20 ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has joined #scheme 21:18:54 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:19:26 teurastaja [~netwalker@modemcable182.177-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 21:20:00 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:20:49 -!- ckrailo_ [~ckrailo@208.86.167.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:21:00 -!- thoolihan [~TimH@209.221.3.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:22:09 if i use a procedure like this: (proc (lambda () (do-some-stuff))), couldnt i abstract away that expression to make lambda disappear? 21:22:36 that is, if i pass a thunk to a procedure 21:23:26 maybe even a procedure with arguments? 21:23:34 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:24:45 is that possible? 21:25:53 ((proc) (do-some-stuff))? 21:26:51 klutometis: I did not! thanks 21:27:06 teurastaja: you could use a macro for that 21:27:42 does it work the same though? 21:28:13 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 21:28:13 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has quit [Changing host] 21:28:13 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 21:30:09 will it still work that way? 21:34:31 RaceCondition [~erik@82.131.53.114.cable.starman.ee] has joined #scheme 21:35:56 Kleif [~Kleif@21.Red-81-36-10.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:38:48 ? 21:41:05 -!- teurastaja [~netwalker@modemcable182.177-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:45 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-81-91-88.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:46:46 -!- sale87 [~somebody@95.180.22.13] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:49:00 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 21:49:30 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.102.125] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:50:30 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:58:51 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C2938.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:53 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:06 -!- Caleb-- [thedude@bzq-79-179-207-70.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:00:44 Nevermind my earlier question; I'm going to start running it from emacs now. :D 22:04:40 Caleb-- [thedude@bzq-79-179-207-70.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 22:12:16 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@82.131.53.114.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: RaceCondition] 22:13:08 teurastaja, I would just abstract that lambda. It'll do the same thing but you can use the same procedure again if you abstract it 22:17:13 -!- githogori [~githogori@155.sub-75-210-43.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:19:38 common_tragedian [~common_tr@eagleheights-106-95.resnet.wisc.edu] has joined #scheme 22:28:17 tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 22:30:13 Quick question: about how long does it take one to be able to easily read complex expressions in prefix? 22:30:31 I don't find it too difficult to write, but my mind melts trying to decipher some expressions. 22:30:36 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 22:31:16 screwtape: how long have you been having trouble reading sexprs? 22:33:19 -!- yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:33:25 Not long at all. I just started learning. That's why I'm wondering about how long it'll take me to do it easily. 22:33:38 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 22:34:24 yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 22:35:18 it didn't take me long to get used to sexprs, maybe a week. I never found it complicated to read, though. as long as we're not talking about mathematical things like (* (/ 3 2) 7), but then again I could never read infix mathematical expressions and tell what was happening because of all the precedence rules one had to know and parse mentally 22:35:51 today I love it and have trouble understanding how anyone can dislike 22:35:52 it 22:36:04 Actually, that's what I've been reading for the most part so that makes sense. 22:36:20 -!- yamanu [~yamanu@89.142.206.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:36:26 mejja [~user@c-0eb9e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 22:37:34 Like I have one that's (/ (+ (/ x (* y y)) (* 2 y)) 3)) 22:37:59 Wasn't difficult to write from the standard mathematical notation, but looking it over to make sure it's right was like ...ow 22:38:35 I'm really liking the whole functional programming thing though. It just seems like the way programming was meant to be. 22:38:40 yeah, don't worry about that, that's impossible to read :P 22:39:19 So once I start doing things that aren't pure number crunching, it'll be a lot easier, eh? Sounds good to me! 22:39:38 screwtape: yes, but don't get carried away :) I find that multiparadigm is the way to go most often than not. Pure FP is unnecessarily awkward 22:39:52 yes, it'll be easier than in Algol-syntax languages 22:40:37 Yeah, just thinking about it earlier I thought "I should write a roguelike in a FP language one day!" 22:40:51 And then I thought about state and the game loop and thought again. 22:40:51 what's a "roguelike"? 22:41:20 It's a type of game based on one called Rogue 22:41:29 yes. I don't believe programming will ever be purely FP. today, state is important, and FP places high barriers for handling it. 22:41:40 Google Rogue or Nethack for good examples 22:41:47 oh nethack 22:41:52 Yeah 22:42:15 yeah, try writing any game in haskell and see how long before you quit 22:42:18 how do you place a let within an if statement 22:42:22 lol 22:42:37 Haskell was actually the lang I was researching when I had that thought 22:42:53 or do you put the if within the let? 22:42:55 planetPlosion: if you really need to do that then you're looking for condlet but that doesn't exist in Scheme I think 22:42:57 -!- ficthe is now known as open 22:43:16 So how difficult would it be to write the state/loop bits in an imperative language and the bulk of the logic in FP? 22:43:27 -!- open is now known as Guest32398 22:43:34 planetPlosion: are you looking to bind conditionally? as in, bind to this if that? (let ((x (if #t 8 9))) ... ) 22:43:46 yes 22:43:49 screwtape: that's what haskellers will tell you they do, in haskell itself 22:44:03 screwtape: they think of monadic code as imperative programming 22:44:26 so, the ... is where I put my conditional? 22:44:31 Yeah I got that impression when I looked around for FP roguelikes 22:45:27 planetPlosion: (let ((result (if (string? blah) blah (convert-to-string blah)))) ... ) 22:45:46 Is there a way to interface between, say, C/C++ imperative code and scheme logic? 22:45:58 screwtape: no need. scheme isn't purely functional 22:46:00 (if (integer? x)thanks, lemme try that quick 22:46:07 -!- ysph [~user@75-143-85-15.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:46:39 screwtape: it has set! so you can always bypass fascist FP within the language 22:47:02 I've heard that imperative scheme/lisp/haskell is a nightmare 22:48:21 that may be for haskell, but I don't think it is the case for Scheme and I know it definitely isn;t the case for Common Lisp 22:48:50 Well good. Then maybe my FP roguelike dream will come true :P 22:49:13 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:16 you will never please the purists, though, but don't mind them :P 22:49:56 Yeah the purists were the ones suggesting C + haskell for it 22:51:50 c + anything sucks :/ 22:52:23 Yeah? I've never written anything in more than one language before 22:52:35 Is it just about C, or the interfacing? 22:53:49 rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has joined #scheme 22:54:33 it's the need to write in C syntax and deal with its inadequacies 22:54:35 brb 22:54:53 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:56:44 -!- common_tragedian [~common_tr@eagleheights-106-95.resnet.wisc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:58:41 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 23:05:31 -!- mmc2 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:07:05 screwtape: interfacing with C, at least from scheme, is usually a breeze 23:08:54 -!- choas [~lars@p5792C2AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:10:27 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-81-91-88.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 23:12:15 -!- rasterbar [~rasterbar@unaffiliated/rasterbar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:53 -!- tronador_ [~guille@190.145.89.146] has quit [Quit: tronador_] 23:18:11 tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has joined #scheme 23:22:48 -!- muks [~muks@misha.banu.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:35:07 -!- mejja [~user@c-0eb9e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756]] 23:37:39 (map (lambda (a) (if (equal? (car a) key) (attach-to-end list key) a)) list) 23:37:41 ex. (function '(list) "key" '(bigger list)) would return (bigger list ("key" (list))) 23:37:52 attaching a list behind a key within a bigger list basically 23:48:15 -!- carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 23:56:10 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 23:57:16 -!- Guest32398 is now known as open 23:57:26 -!- open [~thesk@unaffiliated/ficthe] has quit [Changing host] 23:57:26 open [~thesk@unaffiliated/open] has joined #scheme 00:15:00 -!- open [~thesk@unaffiliated/open] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:16:53 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Quit: groovy2shoes] 00:18:02 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:18:26 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:19:10 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:21:47 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:21:47 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:21:47 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 00:26:28 Nils^ [hammerfest@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-zlqesbwemeukcbni] has joined #scheme 00:26:31 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:27:33 hello. is there any standard scheme function to get the number of partitions or better the partitions themselves? ("which combinations of positive integers can build the sum n?") 00:28:07 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:28:07 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:28:07 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 00:28:57 hmm. Those are called the stirling numbers of the second kind iirc. There is a recursive formula. 00:29:30 You could generate the partitions themselves from something called "restricted growth strings" 00:29:44 I mean this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_%28number_theory%29 00:32:03 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 00:32:27 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:32:57 rononovski_ [~rononovsk@bzq-109-64-185-226.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 00:34:28 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:34:28 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:34:28 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 00:36:00 -!- Kleif [~Kleif@21.Red-81-36-10.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Kleif] 00:36:04 oh, I see I was confused. The stirling numbers of the second kind insist each partition is non-empty 00:37:18 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 00:40:10 Nils^: there is no standard function for that in any programming language I know well 00:40:28 qebab: ok 00:41:01 Nils^: I haven't used scheme in a few years though, so if something particularly exciting has happened since then, I guess there could be, but I doubt it 00:41:15 standard or not doesn't matter. I just need the function :) I understand the concept but not these math functions. I think it would be easy if I only could read how math-people write down their stuff 00:42:19 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 00:42:23 Nils^: I'd help you out, but I'm too tired right now. :( I think #math might help you understand the calculation of it much better than this channel though 00:42:56 it's not the easiest function in the world to code if I recall correctly 00:42:57 qebab: thank you. Its not urgent anyway 00:43:04 well, good night 00:44:10 http://www.numericana.com/answer/numbers.htm#partitions ah, here is BASIC code. I guess I can read this better than math symbols 00:45:38 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:48:07 tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.102.125] has joined #scheme 00:48:17 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 00:50:53 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159903.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:53:32 mustapha [~mustapha@unaffiliated/mustapha] has joined #scheme 00:53:46 copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:53:46 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:53:46 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 00:54:09 krey_ pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120898 00:54:33 can someone explain what this code does? (it's only 2 lines) 00:55:12 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 00:59:45 ecraven: there is a set library in slib 01:05:40 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@208.86.167.249] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:08:07 -!- mustapha [~mustapha@unaffiliated/mustapha] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:09:18 ysph [~user@adsl-89-11-71.mgm.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 01:10:41 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:12:27 -!- xale [~xale@2001:4b98:dc0:51:216:3eff:fef2:58dd] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:12:33 -!- rononovski_ [~rononovsk@bzq-109-64-185-226.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:13:16 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-183-86.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:13:21 xale [~xale@2001:4b98:dc0:51:216:3eff:fef2:58dd] has joined #scheme 01:18:19 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:18:19 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has 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is now known as drdo 11:57:46 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 11:57:46 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:57:46 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 11:58:08 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-144-19.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 12:09:08 krey_ [~krey@78-131-63-61.pool.hdsnet.hu] has joined #scheme 12:09:42 hi, can someone explain what "return" is set to in the second example on https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Call-with-current-continuation#Examples ? 12:09:43 http://tinyurl.com/4gndrub 12:18:31 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-170-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:23:36 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-170-221.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:44:01 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 12:46:28 mmc2 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 12:57:42 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit 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I'm trying to figure out a good way to hash them. Any ideas? (for example, given an array, I could sum up all its elements and then mod it by the number of elements in the hash table, but this would be a bad hash because addition is commutative). 17:37:54 -!- pantsd [~hkarau@nat/uwaterloo/x-nbaehsipbsqpocpe] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:38:52 pantsd [~hkarau@nat/uwaterloo/x-rkuxarjcpjlyrlyj] has joined #scheme 17:43:56 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 17:46:34 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-128-38.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:46:37 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:47:51 -!- offby1` [~user@ec2-50-18-17-135.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:47:51 offby1` [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 17:48:38 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-170-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:52:17 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 17:54:42 -!- Nshag 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timeout: 250 seconds] 19:12:41 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-46.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 19:21:06 -!- Kleif [~Kleif@21.Red-81-36-10.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:21:12 Kleif [~Kleif@21.Red-81-36-10.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:23:34 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:24:35 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-81-91-88.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 19:28:14 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 19:29:42 nteon [~nteon@204.28.122.186] has joined #scheme 19:31:34 -!- TippenEin [~chatzilla@97.65.218.3] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 19:33:22 -!- Kleif [~Kleif@21.Red-81-36-10.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Kleif] 19:36:46 hm.. seems git mit-scheme breaks slib, ;The object (runtime syntactic-closures), passed as an argument to ->environment, is not an environment. 19:43:24 copumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.204] has joined #scheme 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240 seconds] 20:18:00 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-113-0.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 20:26:26 dmytrish [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #scheme 20:31:08 -!- jrt4 [~jrt4@207-118-100-176.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:41:39 tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 20:46:19 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-25.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:51:46 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-25.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:02:12 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-113-0.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:04:21 femtooo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 21:07:08 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:07:48 -!- tauntaun [~icarus@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:09:07 -!- screwtape [~pete@cpe-173-171-151-211.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:09:17 -!- f8l [~f8l@87-205-26-208.ip.netia.com.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 21:11:00 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-179-165.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 21:16:43 -!- dmytrish [~dmytrish@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:19:50 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-179-165.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:21:00 kennyd_ [~kennyd@78-0-246-229.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 21:30:19 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C548D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 21:33:31 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:41:33 in (begin (a) (b) (c)) is the order of evaluation "a then b then c" guaranteed ? 21:42:09 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-6-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:42:29 Yes. 21:43:01 isn't evaluation order fixed in general in scheme? 21:43:14 or is that a goofy idea? 21:43:27 bremner: If you do (+ (a) (b) (c)), the order of evaluation is not defined. 21:43:27 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-5-227.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:43:38 orly? I thought it was. 21:43:48 I misread a book. then 21:43:52 bremner: Implementations can call c, then b, then a, or a, then b, then c (or anything else it sees fit, but R->L and L->R are the typical ones). 21:43:53 begin is a serializer apparently 21:44:29 JuanDaugherty: Right. 21:44:34 cky: o/ :) 21:44:47 rien: o/ back atcha. :-) 21:44:51 tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.102.125] has joined #scheme 21:47:32 oh, so begin is used to both do more than one thing and enforce evaluation order? nice 21:48:03 funny way to describe it, but sure 21:48:04 rien: Mostly, it is used to order side-effecting operations. 21:48:28 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@78-0-246-229.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:48:44 rien: Since it ignores the values of all the expressions but the last one, if you want to use those values for anything, then you will want to use another construct. 21:49:35 it's just that I was reading about "smug", a parser combinator library for CL, and the author was calling Scheme "silly" because it didn't enforce order of evaluation. but then he showed an example using "progn", CL's "begin"... so now I see the author was being a bit silly 21:50:09 arcfide: right, that's why there's prog1 and progn in CL, and the ability to write progx 21:51:12 let* also guarantees order of evaluation, of course ;) 21:52:00 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-102-210.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 21:59:30 Kleif [~Kleif@21.Red-81-36-10.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:02:48 ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-71-170-15-148.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:08:30 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-102-210.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:12:00 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-174-241.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 22:18:20 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-174-241.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:20:48 frieza_ [frieza@vigilant.anserq.com] has joined #scheme 22:21:52 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C548D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:22 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 22:23:00 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-61-150.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 22:28:39 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-61-150.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:31:23 -!- mns [~mns@c-71-232-124-13.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:33:00 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-41-189.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 22:49:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-46.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:26 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-41-189.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:56:30 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-52-105.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 22:56:55 mns [~mns@c-24-63-163-44.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:59:02 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:57 -!- augiedoggie [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has quit [Quit: Bye] 23:00:44 augiedoggie [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has joined #scheme 23:04:48 TippenEin [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:10:23 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 23:22:30 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:26:14 Is there a scheme compiler to native code written in scheme? 23:27:43 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:30:23 drdo: Chez Scheme, among others. 23:31:05 arcfide: Well, what are those others? Since chez is not foss 23:31:57 drdo: Larceny would fit that criteria too. 23:32:48 drdo: Ikarus is another of which I am aware. 23:33:14 Ikarus seems to be written in C 23:33:15 Ikarus is partly written in C though. 23:33:35 But it's a small part of it if I remember correctly. 23:33:37 drdo: No, most of the compiler is written in Scheme. 23:33:55 Dream maybe fits too: http://www.stripedgazelle.org/joey/dream.html 23:34:02 Dream is an interpreter. 23:34:37 Drdo: All high level languages require some sort of minimum bootstrap library of some sort that supports the rest of the system. Even C requires this. 23:35:46 What for? 23:36:32 drdo: To interface with the operating system, access system calls, &c. 23:36:54 In Scheme, usually, a part of the memory manager is written in a low-level language. 23:37:09 arcfide: That doesn't need C 23:37:15 arcfide: maybe I'm mistaken but I believe dream does also have a compiler. (and compiles itself) 23:37:19 All you need is an assembler 23:37:32 And that assembler can really just be in scheme 23:37:39 A low level language is only a subset of your language for which you have a specialized compiler. 23:37:43 drdo: Yes, and would you rather write four different versions in assembly language for each plaatform or one version in C? 23:38:14 drdo: Dream is an interpreter that is written in x86 assembly, but it doesn't run on PowerPC, for example. 23:38:18 drdo: also chicken. 23:38:34 xale: Chicken uses C as an intermediate language. 23:39:26 drdo: You could right the core runtime in assembly, but that's a maintenance overhead that most multi-platform systems don't want to do. That doesn't mean you cannot do it, of course. 23:39:31 s/right/write/ 23:40:16 Most of them use C as a portable assembly language for writing that core runtime. The rest of the system would be implemented in Scheme. 23:40:43 How you have to do that anyway, at least in some areas, to take advantage of what each platform provides? 23:40:48 s/How/Won't 23:41:16 drdo: what do you mean? 23:43:14 drdo: You can't avoid writing platform-specific C code in a lot of situations, but that's much easier and maintanable than writing assembly. (if that's what you meant) 23:44:46 That is, unless you "outsource the problem" by writing the core in some language that does it for you. 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[~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 07:20:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-46.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 07:27:47 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-25.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:56:15 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 07:56:31 mmc2 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 08:02:29 hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:12:47 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 08:18:20 femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 08:49:08 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:53:39 What do people here use for including Scheme code in LaTeX documents? 08:54:51 ecraven: have you tried SLaTeX? 08:57:10 I'm looking at it now, but I use XeTeX, need to find out whether I can coax SLaTeX into using that instead of pdflatex 08:58:01 ah 09:00:53 peterhil 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13:47:16 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-186-178.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:51:45 tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has joined #scheme 13:58:20 tmadeira [~tmadeira@unaffiliated/tiagomadeira] has joined #scheme 13:59:51 -!- Tippenein [~chatzilla@97.65.218.4] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224]] 14:00:28 starting mzscheme (plt-scheme 4.2.2) with mzscheme -i -p plai/plai:1:20 i receive datatype.ss:55:21: unstable/syntax: standard-module-name-resolver: collection not found: "unstable" in any of: (# #) in: unstable/syntax anyone know what should i do to fix it? 14:04:48 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 14:13:51 tmadeira: the same command works for me with racket 5.1 on debian. Well, I replaced mzscheme with racket because mzscheme is screwed up on this machine. 14:14:37 -!- w8l [~f8l@87-205-26-208.ip.netia.com.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 14:16:39 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 14:24:01 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 15:03:37 tauntaun [~icarus@64.134.69.191] has joined #scheme 15:25:12 mmc2 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has joined #scheme 15:27:43 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:43:13 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43:47 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-82-87-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:44:49 tmadeira: PLAI needs an updated racket installation. 15:52:25 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 15:52:54 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Client Quit] 16:17:31 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Remote host closed the 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djcb```` [~user@a88-114-89-247.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 21:36:06 -!- djcb``` [~user@a88-114-89-247.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:41:35 -!- pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f769221.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:41:37 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:42:09 pygospa [~TheRealPy@kiel-5f769221.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 21:42:41 TippenEin [~chatzilla@c-24-245-21-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:46:55 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 21:47:11 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:50:44 tmadeira [~tmadeira@unaffiliated/tiagomadeira] has joined #scheme 22:02:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:59 Does Racket have a R5RS mode? 22:06:13 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:06:45 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravic@smtp.touchcut.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:38 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:12:02 Kleif [~Kleif@21.Red-81-36-10.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:12:36 gigamonkey: Yes. 22:13:17 gigamonkey: Simply run "plt-r5rs" from the command line. 22:14:44 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w177040.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:05 -!- choas [~lars@p5792C6C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:30:03 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 22:38:04 -!- mmc2 [~michal@82-148-210-75.fiber.unet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:40:33 wisey [~Steven@host86-147-41-15.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 22:44:36 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #scheme 22:49:50 Bed_ [~laurent@unaffiliated/somelauw] has joined #scheme 22:50:15 -!- djcb```` [~user@a88-114-89-247.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:12 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:55:13 -!- mns [~mns@c-24-63-163-44.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:56:58 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-52-105.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:59:04 Caleb-- [thedude@109.66.200.217] has joined #scheme 23:01:02 Is there any beautiful way to construct your own named lets without macros? 23:01:24 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-168-65.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 23:01:35 -!- Kleif [~Kleif@21.Red-81-36-10.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Kleif] 23:02:20 Since I found such a way 23:02:37 sure, with a lambda. 23:03:38 Yes 23:10:30 I constructed a way:"http://pastebin.com/uPMN9g8b 23:13:19 But it can probably be improved. 23:13:29 I want to get rid of the (iter iter) 23:18:16 -!- wisey [~Steven@host86-147-41-15.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:19:36 mns [~mns@c-24-63-163-44.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:21:07 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:22:02 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 23:25:30 Bed_: that's an odd thing to want to do without macros. 23:30:58 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 23:32:16 I.e. that's exactly what macros are for. 23:36:10 -!- Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:39:44 Nisstyre [~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #scheme 23:45:08 I want to do it for theoretic purposes. 23:45:16 But I found a way? 23:45:23 Ever heard of the y-combinator? 23:46:26 Bed_: yes. 23:47:43 Why is it an odd to do without macros by the way? 23:50:24 Because if you want a syntactic abstraction, use a mechanism for creating syntactic abstractions. 23:50:51 (That said, I thought I was in #lisp not #scheme.) 23:51:02 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:53:44 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:53:44 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-177-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:53:44 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 23:56:06 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-5-227.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:58:33 -!- ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-71-170-15-148.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:59:40 -!- ijp [~user@host109-154-194-24.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:02:25 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-183-86.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:04:23 -!- zmv [~daniel@c934ad95.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:04:30 dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 00:10:14 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the 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TippenEin 01:03:52 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 01:05:17 -!- nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:57 DrDuck [~duck@216.186.151.63] has joined #scheme 01:11:29 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-144-19.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:28:09 -!- drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29:15 -!- mns [~mns@c-24-63-163-44.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #scheme 01:34:49 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:34:53 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:42:05 -!- tauntaun [~mandelio@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:46:55 drdo [~user@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 01:52:35 lusory [~bart@bb219-74-100-75.singnet.com.sg] has joined #scheme 02:08:12 Senjai [80bdb207@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.189.178.7] has joined #scheme 02:08:19 hey all 02:10:59 Senjai: Hello. 02:13:10 tauntaun [~mandelio@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 02:15:44 rrenaud [~rrenaud@cpe-66-108-112-118.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:23:15 are there good docs for r5rs somewhere? 02:24:27 You mean like...the Revised^5 Report on Scheme? 02:24:39 That's a good `doc for r5rs', I think... 02:27:28 does this have all of the standard library functions included? 02:27:33 http://schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-15.html#%_index_start 02:27:33 http://tinyurl.com/3apvqx 02:27:37 no random, no sort? 02:27:56 Correct. 02:27:59 :( 02:28:01 kill me 02:28:13 OK. Where are you? 02:28:24 214 e 10th street apt 16 ny ny 02:28:55 Great. Be there on Saturday, 13:45. 02:29:02 (EDT) 02:29:05 ;) 02:31:02 -!- lusory [~bart@bb219-74-100-75.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:32:07 rrenaud: R5RS itself is minimal, but is supplemented by various SRFIs. 02:32:27 rrenaud: (SRFI is usually pronounced "surfie", just FYI.) 02:32:35 rrenaud: SRFI 27 provides random, and SRFI 95 provides sort. 02:32:59 http://srfi.schemers.org/ for more SRFIs. 02:33:05 -!- tauntaun [~mandelio@ool-457c37c3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:33:31 Many Scheme implementations provide various SRFIs as loadable modules. 02:33:54 No Scheme implementation supports all SRFIs; some support more than others. 02:34:22 ckrailo [~ckrailo@pool-71-170-15-148.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:34:37 (For example, even though SRFI 49 is a "final" SRFI, I don't believe any serious Scheme implementation supports it "out of the box".) 02:34:43 okay, that seems much better 02:34:47 :-) 02:35:06 except it's weird to need to know mappings between seemingly arbitrary integers and the stuff they provide 02:35:22 rrenaud: That site provides a listing of all the SRFIs. You can search that list. 02:35:46 rrenaud: I usually Google for "foobar site:srfi.schemers.org" where foobar is some functionality I'm looking for. 02:37:22 rrenaud: I can't speak for Schemers in general, but I remember the numbers of the SRFIs I use most. 02:39:00 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:40:09 rrenaud: The ones I know (can memorise without looking up) are 1 (list library), 4 (byte vectors), 6 (string ports), 8 (receive), 9 (records), 11 (let-values), 13 (string library), 14 (character sets), 16 (case-lambda), 17 (generalised set!), 22 (scripting support), 23 (error), 41 (streams), 43 (vector library), 60 (bit operations), 69 (hash tables), 71 (generalised let), 88 (keywords), 89 (optional arguments), and 95 (sort). 02:40:30 Oh, I also know 26 (cut) and 27 (random), of course. 02:41:06 So, if any program used any of those SRFIs, I know what they do without having to look up the numbers. 02:42:43 I should write a quiz bot that quizzes people what SRFI number is associated with some given functionality. That could be fun. :-P 02:43:09 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-drzsegnakjjixwcc] has joined #scheme 02:43:13 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-drzsegnakjjixwcc] has quit [Changing host] 02:43:13 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has joined #scheme 02:43:42 rrenaud: SRFIs 0 and 7 are important too, because it allows a portable program to query which SRFIs are supported by a given implementation. But, I've never used either of them, so. 02:44:27 i can't find any examples of importing a given srfi 02:44:43 rrenaud: Which implementation are you using? The mechanism is not portable between implementations. :-( 02:44:52 heh, fail ;P 02:44:54 racket 02:44:57 with r5rs 02:45:04 (#%require srfi/XXX) 02:45:39 (With #lang racket instead of #lang r5rs, you can use the prettier-looking (require srfi/XXX) instead.) 02:46:37 rudybot: init r5rs 02:46:37 cky: your r5rs sandbox is ready 02:46:46 rudybot: (#%require srfi/1) 02:46:47 cky: Done. 02:46:51 rudybot: (iota 10) 02:46:51 cky: ; Value: (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) 02:46:54 aspect [~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org] has joined #scheme 02:46:56 rrenaud: ^^--- quick example 02:48:48 rudybot: init r5rs 02:48:48 rrenaud: your r5rs sandbox is ready 02:48:55 rudybot: (#%require srfi/95) 02:48:55 rrenaud: error: default-load-handler: cannot open input file: "/usr/local/racket-textual/collects/srfi/95.rkt" (No such file or directory; errno=2) 02:49:38 rrenaud: Hahahahaha. Racket provides sort as part of its base racket language, not as a SRFI. :-( 02:49:52 rrenaud: So I'm not sure how you can access sort from R5RS mode. 02:50:17 do they provide an intentionally poor implementation of r5rs to make you switch to racket? 02:50:18 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #scheme 02:50:38 Hahahaha, that's an interesting way to put it. 02:50:44 also, it looks like they provide srfi 32 02:50:54 Well, let's just say that #lang r5rs is much less rich than #lang racket. 02:50:55 but it's hard to find docs for that 02:51:08 Docs? http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-32/srfi-32.html surely? 02:51:49 (Most SRFIs are accessed via the URL http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-XX/srfi-XX.html.) 02:52:25 okay, maybe i am just confused? 02:52:42 rudybot: (#%require srfi/32) 02:52:42 rrenaud: Done. 02:52:57 rudybot: (sort '(3 1 2) <) 02:52:57 rrenaud: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: sort in module: 'program 02:53:46 rudybot: (#%require srfi/32) 02:53:46 cky: Done. 02:53:54 rudybot: (list-sort '(3 1 4 1 5 9) <) 02:53:54 cky: error: list->vector: expected argument of type ; given # 02:54:13 rudybot: (list-sort < '(3 1 4 1 5 9)) 02:54:13 rrenaud: error: list->vector: expected argument of type ; given {3 1 4 1 5 9} 02:55:49 Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. 02:58:25 rrenaud: Just so you know what that's about.... 02:58:34 See how the list is represented with curly brackets? 02:58:44 yeah 02:58:44 That's how Racket's R5RS compatibility mode works. 02:59:13 So, a change that occurred with PLT Scheme 4.0 onwards, is that conses are immutable by default, and a new type called mcons was added. 02:59:34 So, lists created with conses are written with round brackets, and lists created with mconses are written with curly brackets. 02:59:49 mconses -> not proper list? 02:59:51 So, apparently list->vector is picky and doesn't like mcons-based lists. 03:00:23 Well, but. Hmm. 03:00:38 how do i construct a 'real' list then? 03:00:44 rudybot: (list 1 2 3) 03:00:44 rrenaud: ; Value: {1 2 3} 03:00:51 rudybot: init r5rs 03:00:51 cky: your r5rs sandbox is ready 03:00:58 rudybot: (list->vector '(1 2 3)) 03:00:58 cky: ; Value: #(1 2 3) 03:01:09 rrenaud: See, the built-in list->vector does handle mcons-based lists correctly. 03:01:20 ...just not the one used by Racket's SRFI 32 implementation. 03:01:49 rudybot: '(1 2 3) 03:01:50 cky: ; Value: {1 2 3} 03:01:56 rudybot: (pair? '(1 2 3)) 03:01:56 cky: ; Value: #t 03:15:53 rudybot: init racket 03:15:54 TippenEin: your racket sandbox is ready 03:17:21 rudybot: (filter integer? (map sqrt (range 100))) 03:17:21 TippenEin: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: range in module: 'program 03:17:54 hmm.. no range in racket 03:18:34 rudybot: (foldr + 0 '(1 2 3)) 03:18:34 TippenEin: ; Value: 6 03:18:57 rudybot: (foldl - 0 '(1 2 3)) 03:18:57 TippenEin: ; Value: 2 03:22:19 rudybot, (filter integer? (map sqrt (build-list 100 values))) 03:22:20 DT``: your sandbox is ready 03:22:20 DT``: ; Value: (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) 03:22:29 rudybot: (define (range a b) (cond ((> a b) '()) (cons a (range (+ a 1) b)))) 03:22:30 TippenEin: Done. 03:22:37 rudybot: (filter integer? (map sqrt (range 100))) 03:22:38 TippenEin: error: procedure range: expects 2 arguments, given 1: 100 03:22:48 rudybot: (filter integer? (map sqrt (range 2 100))) 03:22:49 TippenEin: ; Value: () 03:23:20 TippenEin, use (build-list n values) 03:23:27 thank DT 03:24:05 rudybot: (build-list 10 values) 03:24:05 TippenEin: ; Value: (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) 03:24:24 what is values argument? 03:25:04 build-list accepts a procedure that gets applied to all the numbers before getting consed: 03:25:09 rudybot, (build-list 10 -) 03:25:10 DT``: ; Value: (0 -1 -2 -3 -4 -5 -6 -7 -8 -9) 03:25:24 rudybot, (build-list 10 ( (x) (* x 2)) 03:25:24 DT``: TippenEin, use (build-list n values) 03:25:26 rudybot, (build-list 10 ( (x) (* x 2))) 03:25:26 DT``: ; Value: (0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18) 03:25:41 oh, awesome 03:26:03 i guess not awesome, but pretty cool ; ) 03:26:49 I usually use my own range, though, I don't like it too much. 03:27:07 i like that from a to b range 03:27:20 starting lists at 0 doesn't usually come up 03:28:12 rudybot: (build-list 10 (lambda (a b) (cons a b))) 03:28:12 TippenEin: error: build-list: expected argument of type ; given # 03:28:13 rrenaud: Yes, the r5rs language is poor, but racket is certainly not responsible for *that*; the only thing it is responsible for is giving you a very strict language that corresponds to r5rs very closely. 03:28:35 rudybot, (define (range a b) (do ((a a (add1 a)) (r '() (cons a r))) ((> a b) (reverse r))) 03:28:35 DT``: which is the meaning of this error? Args out of range: [compilation-info-face compilation-warning-face compilation-error-face], 3 03:28:37 rudybot, (define (range a b) (do ((a a (add1 a)) (r '() (cons a r))) ((> a b) (reverse r)))) 03:28:37 DT``: Done. 03:28:42 rudybot, (range 3 10) 03:28:42 DT``: ; Value: (3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10) 03:29:39 why build it backwards and reverse it? 03:29:39 it's a shame that my prof insisted on it, was reasonably happy with racket before i read that he suggested using racket but language r5rs :( 03:29:39 rudybot: (define (rangle a b) (for/list ([i (in-range a b)]) i)) 03:29:39 eli: your sandbox is ready 03:29:39 eli: Done. 03:29:45 rudybot: (range 3 10) 03:29:45 eli: error: reference to undefined identifier: range 03:29:54 *eli* sighs 03:29:58 rudybot: (rangle 3 10) 03:29:58 eli: ; Value: (3 4 5 6 7 8 9) 03:29:58 lol 03:30:15 Ha! 03:30:27 why not use in-range directly? 03:30:37 rudybot, (in-range 3 10) 03:30:37 DT``: ; Value: # 03:30:43 oh, that's why. 03:31:03 You can do that, but since (as you see) it's not a list, you need to use it as a sequence. 03:43:08 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:47:41 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 03:48:06 -!- tupi [~david@189.60.162.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:49:15 myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 03:52:55 -!- myu2 [~myu2@v051158.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:27 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:05:35 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:05:39 bokr [~eduska@109.110.54.101] has joined #scheme 04:07:46 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:09:15 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:10:07 rudybot: init r5rs 04:10:07 rrenaud: your r5rs sandbox is ready 04:10:13 rudybot: (map cadr '((a b) (d e) (g h))) 04:10:14 rrenaud: ; Value: {b e h} 04:11:48 rudybot: (map cadr '((a ,) (b ,) (c !) (d ,) (e ,))) 04:11:48 TippenEin: (eval (cadr (syntax-e (cdr (syntax-e (expand #'(m))))))) --> error 04:12:31 nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 04:13:10 -!- nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:13:48 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:14:00 rudybot: `(a ,b) 04:14:01 TippenEin: your racket sandbox is ready 04:14:02 TippenEin: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: b in module: 'program 04:14:12 awesome 04:14:17 bleh 04:14:29 so if i include srfi/1, racket breaks map and filter 04:14:34 and if i don't, i miss out on count? 04:15:00 just write them manually 04:15:19 heh, welcome to the stone ages ;( 04:15:35 want me to write map and filter for you? 04:15:45 :( 04:15:53 it seems like writing count is better than writing map and filter 04:16:10 no srfi/1 -> minimal 04:16:13 with srfi/1 -> broken 04:16:19 i'll take minimal over broken i think 04:16:24 heh 04:18:46 rudybot: (foldr (lambda (a sum) (+ 1 sum)) 0 '(1 2 3)) 04:18:46 TippenEin: ; Value: 3 04:20:18 rudybot: (foldr (lambda (a b) (cons (odd? a) b)) '() '(1 2 3)) 04:20:18 TippenEin: ; Value: (#t #f #t) 04:21:06 how do you close the sandbox? 04:21:34 rudybot: end racket 04:21:34 TippenEin: PLAI needs an updated racket installation. 04:25:39 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 04:26:09 i need to write a depth first search in scheme soon. sounds like fun. anyone here done one in scheme? 04:28:05 hmm 04:28:13 how do you do one without mutating state? 04:31:24 -!- arcfide [1000@c-69-136-5-227.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #scheme 04:31:30 rrenaud: So ... you want `count' etc, and you complain about stone age programming -- why are you using r5rs then? 04:31:39 my prof insisted on it 04:31:55 Then your professor is the one forcing you into the stone age. 04:32:23 Is this for some project? 04:32:34 homework assignment 04:33:13 And what's the course? 04:33:22 programming languages 04:34:18 In that case you should go to him and ask (or complain) -- his answer should either be "tough luck, I *want* you to do all that work yourself", or "it's fine to use the racket language since it has the extra batteries you need". 04:34:41 Any other answer, like "I don't really know what this racket thing is, so I don't want to use it" is a bad way out. 04:35:17 That is, even if it was any other scheme implementation -- say one with srfi-1 and r5rs -- that's already breaking the r5rs requirement. 04:35:42 i mean, it's kind of strange to me that he explicitly suggested using racket and r5rs 04:36:42 Like I said, r5rs would be a bad idea in *any* implementation -- it just happens that most implementations are sloppy enough that they never give you *just* r5rs -- so that might have been his motive for choosing racket. 04:41:34 paperkettles [~chris@2001:5c0:150a:ba00:226:bbff:fe0c:b57f] has joined #scheme 04:41:36 -!- paperkettles [~chris@2001:5c0:150a:ba00:226:bbff:fe0c:b57f] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:47:49 okay, sent out a whining/bitching/pleading email about r5rs and racket to the class mailing list 04:48:01 which might just mean the rest of the class doesn't have to suffer like i did ;( 04:51:10 screwtape [~pete@cpe-173-171-151-211.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:14:48 rrenaud: are you in cs110 by any chance 05:15:03 Senjai: this is a graduate level class ;( 05:15:08 Oh. 05:15:09 lol 05:15:12 heh, maybe it speaks poorly of the institution ;P 05:15:26 Was wondering if you were in my Uni 05:15:27 lol 05:15:34 We're learning this in cs110 05:17:17 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:17:50 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 05:18:01 HG` [~HG@dslb-188-109-170-222.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 05:18:05 -!- DrDuck [~duck@216.186.151.63] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:20:18 -!- HG` [~HG@dslb-188-109-170-222.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:22:21 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-51-60.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:23:54 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-144-19.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 05:28:41 is there a nicer way to write this? 05:28:41 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-144-19.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:28:43 http://pastie.org/1725104 05:28:57 it has a lot of redundancy in structure 05:32:28 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:34:00 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 05:36:16 -!- blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:36:41 nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 05:36:55 mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:42:37 -!- mippymoe [~mathguru1@c-24-11-171-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:52:28 rrenaud: Yes, but you may not like my solution. ;-) 05:52:40 does it involved macros or something? 05:52:43 No. 05:52:52 What are FIXED-LOC, etc., by the way? 05:52:56 Are they symbols? 05:53:09 yeah 05:53:24 previously when this was racket 05:53:25 Okay, so why FIXED-LOC instead of, say, 'fixed? 05:53:50 FIXED because i write too much C/python and symbols feel like constants to me? 05:54:09 Okay, my rewrite will just use 'fixed, 'swapped, and 'replaced then. 05:54:17 okay.. 06:07:14 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:07:19 z0d [~z0d@artifact.hu] has joined #scheme 06:07:19 -!- z0d [~z0d@artifact.hu] has quit [Changing host] 06:07:19 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 06:27:15 -!- kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:29:42 cky pasted "Special for rrenaud" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/120945 06:30:18 rrenaud: There, hopefully that's gotten rid of all the repetition that you're talking about. :-P 06:30:23 kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 06:32:23 myu2 [~myu2@58x5x224x106.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:35:02 heh, i don't understand it 06:35:49 rrenaud: Okay, I'll step you through it. 06:35:58 To begin with, do you know what association lists are? 06:36:08 a hash table without the effiency? :P 06:36:12 Yep. 06:36:17 Exactly that. 06:36:18 though for 3 elements, i am sure it doesn't matter 06:36:24 *nods* 06:36:31 okay.. 06:37:11 So. We use an association list with three entries, keyed by "fixed", "swapped", and "replaced". 06:37:29 okay 06:37:33 These entries are initially populated with the lists given in the arguments. 06:37:57 The "wanted" variable grabs the appropriate entry. 06:37:59 what does ` and @ do? 06:38:25 ` makes a quasiquote. A quasiquote is like quote ('), except that items can be selectively unquoted. 06:38:34 e.g., 06:38:43 i see 06:38:48 rudybot: '((+ 3 4) (+ 3 4)) 06:38:49 cky: your r5rs sandbox is ready 06:38:49 cky: ; Value: {{+ 3 4} {+ 3 4}} 06:38:50 so you want the real values of rl, fl, etc 06:38:59 rudybot: `((+ 3 4) ,(+ 3 4)) 06:38:59 cky: ; Value: {{+ 3 4} 7} 06:39:16 rrenaud: Notice that anything with , in front gets unquoted. 06:39:22 okay.. 06:39:48 cky: Isn't the point to removing repetition to make the program shorter and easier to understand, rather than longer and obscured? ;) 06:39:54 ,@ is "unquote-splicing", which means the list value gets put straight in. 06:40:18 Example: 06:40:31 rudybot: `(foo ,(map - '(1 2 3)) bar) 06:40:32 cky: ; Value: {foo {-1 -2 -3} bar} 06:40:43 rudybot: `(foo ,@(map - '(1 2 3)) bar) 06:40:44 cky: ; Value: {foo -1 -2 -3 bar} 06:40:58 rrenaud: See the difference between , and ,@? 06:41:08 yeah 06:41:12 Right, good. 06:41:52 So, basically, at each iteration, "wanted" is the association list entry we want. 06:42:13 i.e., the entry associated with "mark". 06:42:33 "rest" is all the entries other than "wanted". 06:42:33 okay 06:43:32 Each time through the loop, we simply collect the results, and "update" the association list appropriately. 06:43:43 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-25.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:44:01 -!- kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:46:30 kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 06:59:28 muks [~muks@misha.banu.com] has joined #scheme 07:05:34 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-25.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:09:21 xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-kywrhaintctugdzr] has joined #scheme 07:19:49 Anyone have a nice test runner for SRFI-64? 07:20:40 The default one is ok but it doesn't display the value of failing expressions... 07:30:21 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:30:30 Riastrad1 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17:06:44 -!- Kleif [~Kleif@21.Red-81-36-10.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Kleif] 17:07:15 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 17:07:32 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:08:08 emporas [~emporas@athedsl-173648.home.otenet.gr] has joined #scheme 17:10:10 blueadept [~blueadept@unaffiliated/blueadept] has joined #scheme 17:10:20 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-25.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:10:23 Nils^ [hammerfest@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-dpxkdlcrcxgqdjxg] has joined #scheme 17:10:33 is there a way to write-protect a variable? 17:13:41 Nils^: in scheme I don't know (there may be implementation dependent extensions allowing it). In Common Lisp, it's trivial: define it as a symbol-macro. 17:14:00 Nils^: scheme per se does not have that concept. maybe a specific implementation does. what's the problem you are trying to solve? 17:14:04 -- make it an exported binding from an library? 17:15:24 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:15:24 pdlogan: I have a variable that is normaly #f and is set #f on a file load. I need to load that file without altering it, but I want the var #t and keep it that way, for debugging purposes 17:17:04 Nils^: there's pseudo. It's a r4rs scheme implementation written in CL. I suppose you could define a scheme variable as a CL symbol macro in pseudo, to load your file there... 17:17:58 If your scheme has a module system, you could just export a procedure that returns the value of a module-internal variable 17:18:02 -!- evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:18:05 Nils^: perhaps Racket has something too. I mean, they have immutable conses, why not immutable variables? 17:23:40 evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:23:55 Nils^: so by "write-protect" you would like the loaded file to perform a set! on the variable but without that assignment taking effect and without an error? 17:26:42 -!- rageous [~Adium@user-38q461p.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:26:44 -!- Fare [~Fare@64.119.159.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:45:15 kms_ [~kms@x-134-84-72-108.uofm-secure.wireless.umn.edu] has joined #scheme 17:47:32 carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 17:47:57 arcfide [1000@c-69-136-5-227.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:51:28 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:53:53 mmc2 [~michal@82.148.210.75] has joined #scheme 17:57:07 Fare [~Fare@63.115.78.49] has joined #scheme 17:58:08 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:58:18 ysph [~user@75-143-85-15.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has joined #scheme 18:02:56 pdlogan1 [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 18:13:30 ijp [~user@host86-163-223-21.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 18:24:55 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-144-19.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 18:29:59 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:34:12 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 18:34:20 -!- jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has quit [Client Quit] 18:34:37 -!- arcfide [1000@c-69-136-5-227.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #scheme 18:34:43 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 18:35:13 *jcowan* unvanishes. 18:35:18 djcb [~user@a88-114-89-247.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 18:39:49 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:41:28 githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has joined #scheme 18:41:42 -!- githogori [~githogori@216.207.36.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:44:28 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@2607:f2c0:f00e:500:222:15ff:fe91:b24c] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:45:43 paulh [~paulh@3-12-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 18:46:45 -!- em is now known as emma 18:47:27 -!- Nils^ [hammerfest@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-dpxkdlcrcxgqdjxg] has left #scheme 18:48:48 -!- nilg` [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]