17:16:43 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 17:16:43 17:16:43 -!- names: ccl-logbot zarchne_ ada2358 acarrico tonyg_ shardz_ leo2007 futilius` jao pnkfelix molbdnilo copumpkin MrFahrenheit Nshag dfkjjkfd_ masm Oejet femtoo tupi ASau jensn bgs100 gravicappa Riastradh nmg jewel dsmith sjamaan pchrist drdo alvatar homie wbooze kaemo timj_ ski mmc chemuduguntar araujo REPLeffect askhader Jafet dfeuer chylli pygospa aoh Intensity saccade Euthydemus Caleb-- nowhereman Quadrescence necroforest bzzbzz Checkie pothos museun rdd dRbiG 17:16:43 -!- names: pjb felipe leppie sloyd eno cinch incubot chandler Zol C-Keen gnomon timchen1` ve cataska xwl_ Leonidas Hal9k kniu devinus foof weinholt yosafbridge danking dlouhy n9mtb Pepe_ samth_away lusory Kovensky jimrees_ minion defn xian XTL ineiros specbot chrissbx gabot cipher qebab crito peddie DerGuteMoritz snorble_ elf stepnem bremner eli zbigniew joast chandra rotty elly mornfall certainty spacebat jimster gapeme eldragon bill_h tessier_ rrm3_ sid3k 17:16:43 -!- names: ToxicFrog ray alaricsp aking wgd duncanm klutometis z0d franki^ `micro cky Axioplase_ ment ecraven Zahl_ tizoc roderic Khisanth Obfuscate pr mario-goulart rapacity stamourv antoszka Adrinael 17:17:09 alexsuraci [~alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:17:17 inimino [~inimino@boshi.inimino.org] has joined #scheme 17:17:43 Riastradh: are you the author of paredit.el? 17:17:51 rudybot [~luser@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:cde7] has joined #scheme 17:18:47 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 17:19:00 leo2007: He is. You should just ask your question, if you have one. 17:19:19 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:19:48 found a bug in paredit. 17:20:08 Riastradh owes you $2.56 17:20:13 kilimanjaro++ 17:20:45 kilimanjaro: Didja know, Knuth no longer issues real cheques due to cheque fraud? 17:21:00 kilimanjaro: Instead, he publishes your name as well as the balance you have. 17:21:13 what if I just wanted the money? 17:21:21 I'll send him an email. 17:21:29 He'll arrange that too. I presume it doesn't come in the form of a cheque, though. 17:21:45 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 17:22:14 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 17:22:37 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 17:23:41 leo2007: What version are you using, out of curiosity? 17:23:48 Hi. 17:23:54 Riastradh: hi 17:24:17 borism [~boris@ec2-79-125-58-77.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 17:24:47 Riastradh: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/300921 move point after ;; xyz, then hit C-j. You should see an error. 17:25:43 Works for me. 17:26:28 More information, please. See text in paredit.el near `*** WARNING *** IMPORTANT *** DO NOT SUBMIT BUGS BEFORE READING ***'. 17:26:42 You'll say whatever you can to get out of paying that $2.56 17:27:55 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:29:41 Oh, I see the problem. (a) I exchange RET and C-j locally. (b) For this case, `paredit-newline' calls `indent-sexp' without checking whether there is an S-expression to indent. 17:31:45 Riastradh: http://imagebin.org/126368 17:32:11 Riastradh: Glad you can reproduce it. 17:35:33 Fixed in the paredit 23 beta. 17:35:41 sp3ctrum [~sp3ctrum@159.Red-88-22-31.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 17:36:01 -!- sp3ctrum [~sp3ctrum@159.Red-88-22-31.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #scheme 17:36:16 Riastradh: thanks. 17:36:24 (http://mumble.net/~campbell/emacs/paredit-beta.el) 17:38:29 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:42:20 Riastradh: there is this warning: paredit.el:1623:4:Warning: kill-region called with 3 arguments, but accepts only 2 17:43:29 a change made in 23 to reduce the arg to 2 instead of 3 17:43:37 number of arg* 17:44:04 Argh! 17:44:36 This is in 23.3.x or something? My 23.2.1 claims that `kill-region' still supports the optional `yank-handler' argument. 17:45:15 ahh 17:45:22 I only checked 22. 17:45:23 I use rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.90.2 (Mac OS X 10.6.5) 17:45:42 I'm confused. 17:45:56 On 23.2.90 it only takes 2 args. 17:46:01 Which versions of Emacs take which numbers of arguments? 17:46:10 OK. 17:46:47 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:47:12 Looks like GNU Emacs 21's `kill-region' takes only two arguments too. 17:47:41 I only have 22 + 23.2.90 :( 17:47:59 Well, the argument is optional, and I don't use it anyway, so I'll just omit it. 17:48:40 yeah, that's the best. 17:49:05 the yank-handler is moved to text property. 17:51:34 Riastradh: another warning is: paredit.el:1738:37:Warning: `goto-line' used from Lisp code That command is designed for interactive use only 17:51:44 although that one is more harmless. 17:52:36 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 17:55:40 I don't think I've ever even used that operation... 17:58:25 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-8-177.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:59:50 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 18:01:26 jar__ [~jar@mobile-166-137-138-041.mycingular.net] has joined #scheme 18:06:17 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:06:21 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: reboot emacs] 18:07:23 sacho [~sacho@79-100-173-234.btc-net.bg] has joined #scheme 18:07:29 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 18:07:30 accel [~accel_@unaffiliated/accel] has joined #scheme 18:07:42 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=487994 <-- can someone here get this to compile on llvm 2.8 ? 18:11:04 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:12:38 -!- jar__ [~jar@mobile-166-137-138-041.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:18:01 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.90.2] 18:18:02 choas [~lars@p5792CF7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:19:03 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:19:32 Maybe we should make the latest flex the default in stdenv-updates? 18:20:01 #nix, MichaelRaskin? 18:20:09 Oops 18:20:12 Sorry 18:20:21 Messed window layout on reconnect 18:21:19 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 18:21:53 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@171.149.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:21:55 -!- molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-195-64.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:55 -!- accel [~accel_@unaffiliated/accel] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:34:17 Riastradh: any objection to this patch http://paste.pocoo.org/show/300957? 18:35:45 molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-195-64.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 18:35:52 I'm against it! *sings*dances* 18:36:09 Gee, I guess I ought to know more words to that. 18:36:13 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-197-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:26 Can you show the patch in `diff -u' format? 18:36:41 Riastradh: http://paste.pocoo.org/raw/300957/ 18:36:44 ASau [~user@95-27-197-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 18:37:10 What's the observable difference? 18:37:22 goto-line sets the mark which is useless in that ConTeXt. 18:37:47 (Do you use that command, by the way? Just curious.) 18:37:50 its doc-string says: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/300960 18:38:12 Riastradh: I can live without it. 18:39:31 I'm not suggesting removing it -- if you do use it, I'd like to know, in which case I certainly won't remove it. 18:40:31 only occasionally. 18:42:56 molbdnilo_ [~Ove@c80-216-195-64.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 18:45:22 Riastradh: are you still against the patch? 18:45:32 -!- molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-195-64.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:32 -!- molbdnilo_ is now known as molbdnilo 18:45:48 No, that was a joke. (You're not a fan of the Marx brothers, are you?) 18:46:45 lisppaste? 18:47:13 minion: lisppaste #117356 18:47:23 Riastradh: I am from a country where Marx is worshipped. But I hate him anyway. 18:47:27 , anyway. 18:48:02 Hmm...slightly different Marx. Yours has a great big bushy beard; mine has a great big bushy moustache. 18:48:40 Riastradh: you version looks better. 18:48:43 your* 18:49:59 (Well...more like grease paint than a moustache, so it's not really bushy, I suppose.) 18:51:42 (See , and in particular .) 18:52:35 I see. No I have never heard of them until just now. 18:56:16 If a function returns two variables (like unzip2), how can I get the value of the first one? 18:56:27 Also, where can I read more about it? 18:56:50 Use CALL-WITH-VALUES or some syntactic sugar atop it, such as RECEIVE (SRFI 8). 18:57:05 thanks 18:57:49 gapeme: Some schemes allow you to just put the call in a position that accepts one value and will automatically pick the first value 18:58:00 Chicken and Gauche do, off the top of my head 18:58:04 Oh 18:58:05 cool 18:58:11 but I also need to get the second one :/ 18:58:19 Anyway, where can I read more about multiple values? 18:58:26 That will make your code fail in every other Scheme on the planet... 18:58:30 specbot: r5rs values 18:58:30 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_572 18:58:31 http://tinyurl.com/yoye9g 18:58:58 so it has to deal with continuations.. 18:58:59 thanks 18:59:00 Riastradh: True, but for nonportable code it's very useful 18:59:26 I should probably say "already-nonportable code" 19:00:05 I dont get `(call-with-values * -) ' 19:00:25 * returns multiple values? 19:00:35 * returns one value, 1; that value is passed as the sole argument to -. 19:01:11 Ahhhh 19:01:17 thanks 19:01:38 It's not the greatest example ever ;) 19:04:11 I kinda always thougght that *+-/ take 1 or more arguments 19:05:18 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:09:31 teurastaja [~netwalker@modemcable198.178-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 19:12:07 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:12:46 -!- teurastaja [~netwalker@modemcable198.178-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has left #scheme 19:12:53 clog [nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 19:26:25 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:28:25 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-92-3-79.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:45 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 19:35:47 -!- snorble_ [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: Lämnar] 19:44:15 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-250-31-162.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:47:48 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:48:51 femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 19:55:31 khisanth_ [~Khisanth@pool-96-250-25-228.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:57:18 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:57:22 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-250-31-162.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:57:35 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 19:57:45 -!- khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth 20:01:50 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:04:51 chemuduguntar [~user@smtp.touchcut.com] has joined #scheme 20:04:56 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-197-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:03 BW^- [~Miranda@92.83.189.253] has joined #scheme 20:05:21 ASau [~user@95-27-197-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 20:14:37 leo2007, do you ever use C-M-l, reposition-window? 20:15:46 gapeme: - and / take 1+ arguments. + and * take 0+ arguments. 20:20:34 - and / take 1 or 2 arguments. Taking more is a non-standard extension. 20:20:41 (non-standard and non-portable) 20:22:22 It's standard, but optional 20:22:36 (whatever good that does) 20:27:07 sjamaan: Wow. My world has just fallen apart. 20:27:22 (To learn that the 3+ arg versions of - and / are optional.) 20:27:38 cky: Sarcasm? 20:27:45 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:28:24 sjamaan: I've kind of assumed that it was part of "core R5RS", but, I guess I've learnt something new. 20:29:07 sjamaan: I once wrote (for a programming challenge posted on justin.tv) an infix-to-prefix converter. It assumed that all four basic operations support the multi-argument versions. 20:29:09 I wonder what non-toy schemes don't provide it, though 20:29:14 Indeed. 20:30:08 I guess it's an efficiency thing 20:30:38 teurastaja [~netwalker@modemcable198.178-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:30:38 Depending on your definition of `toy': Scheme48. 20:30:43 ...surely it's easy to do case-lambda versions that do efficient versions for unary and binary invocations. 20:30:59 It's also a confusion thing. (/ a b c) = (/ (/ a b) c), or (/ a (/ b c))? 20:31:13 Riastradh: R5RS says it associates left-to-right. 20:31:45 In other words, is (/ n0 ... nk d) = (/ (* n0 ... nk) d), or is (/ n d0 ... dk) = (/ n (* d0 ... dk))? 20:31:55 cky, I know it's specified. That doesn't address whether it is confusing, though. 20:32:27 I happen to know that (/ n d0 ... dk) = (/ n (* d0 ... dk)), but I don't rely on this in programs I write, because it's confusing for readers. 20:32:34 when would r7rs theoretially come out? 20:32:37 anyone knows? 20:32:43 (and because it doesn't work everywhere) 20:33:06 pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.205] has joined #scheme 20:33:06 I suppose in infix languages, I'm used to the fact that a / b / c / d has the same behaviour as R5RS's definition of (optional) (/ a b c d). 20:33:06 -!- pumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.205] has quit [Changing host] 20:33:06 pumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 20:33:31 a / b / c / d is just as confusing as (/ a b c d). 20:33:36 eh 20:33:46 i think a / b / c / d is more confusing than (/ a b c d) 20:33:58 not in that particular case though, the only difference is that the latter is less verbose which is good 20:34:04 but when you mix things - a + b * c / d 20:34:05 and is r6rs an overall failed attempt to unify scheme implementations or is the best still to come? 20:34:12 what's highest prio? 20:34:18 i still don't know, for more exotic things like XOR 20:34:20 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:36:00 In C-derived languages, the only right-associative operator I know of is the assignment operators; everything else is left-associative, IIRC. Granted, if C had an exponentiation operator, it'd be more sensible either as right-associative or non-associative. 20:36:50 (Left-associative exponentiation is not useful, IMHO.) 20:38:22 you mean because its not what you are used to? 20:38:59 No, because (expt (expt a b) c) can be rewritten as (expt a (* b c)), whereas (expt a (expt b c)) isn't quite so trivially rewritten. 20:39:06 No, because (a^b)^c = a^(b*c), whereas a^(b^c) has no such simplification. 20:39:11 Exactly. 20:39:55 -!- teurastaja [~netwalker@modemcable198.178-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:40:48 i dont get it. so what? you're saying a^b^c = a^(b^c) which is better than (a^b)^c 20:41:16 jonrafkind: I'm saying that interpreting a^b^c as a^(b^c) is much more useful than as (a^b)^c. 20:41:34 because you need extra parentheses? 20:41:35 In mathematics land, if you interpret ^ as a superscript (rather than as a caret), a^b^c means a^(b^c). 20:41:36 because (a^b)^c can be written a simpler way? 20:41:45 jonrafkind: Yes. 20:41:56 you need parentheses to get the precedence of a^(b*c) correct anyway 20:41:58 (More TeXly, a^{b^c} means a^{(b^c)}.) 20:42:07 that sounds like a weak argument, but whatever 20:50:43 mejja [~chatzilla@c-b4b5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:52:24 incubot: (define ^ (compose (cut reduce-right expt 1 <>) list)) 20:52:24 Error: unbound variable: <> 20:52:35 -!- choas [~lars@p5792CF7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:52:52 rudybot: (require srfi/1 srfi/26) 20:52:53 cky: Done. 20:53:01 rudybot: (define ^ (compose (cut reduce-right expt 1 <>) list)) 20:53:01 cky: Done. 20:53:05 rudybot: (^ 2 3 4) 20:53:06 cky: ; Value: 2417851639229258349412352 20:53:39 -!- BW^- [~Miranda@92.83.189.253] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 20:54:37 jonrafkind: The other (maybe weak to you, but useful to me) reason to do right-association is that it makes it possible to implement using reduce/fold. 20:54:49 jonrafkind: Doing left-association means there is no sensible initial value. 20:55:25 i suppose you want to change how subtraction works too 20:55:46 No, subtraction and division can only sensibly be implemented using case-lambda or the like. 20:56:05 if subtraction was right associative it could use foldl too 20:56:48 ...even unary - and / calls? Surely not. 20:58:42 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-43-164.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:02:17 except for the unary case 21:02:45 (foldl - 0 '(1 2 3)) == 1 - (2 - 3) 21:02:55 jonrafkind: No, that's foldr. 21:03:09 rudybot: eval (foldl - 0 '(1 2 3)) 21:03:11 jonrafkind: your sandbox is ready 21:03:11 jonrafkind: ; Value: 2 21:03:28 Oh, I misread. 21:04:07 no wait you're right 21:04:11 rudybot: eval (foldl - 0 '(1 2 3 4)) 21:04:12 jonrafkind: ; Value: 2 21:04:14 rudybot: eval (foldr - 0 '(1 2 3 4)) 21:04:14 jonrafkind: ; Value: -2 21:04:22 1 - (2 - (3 - 4)) 21:04:29 is -2 21:04:39 darn simple examples 21:04:43 Hahahahaha. 21:05:36 rudybot: eval (foldl - 0 (reverse '(1 2 3 4))) 21:05:36 jonrafkind: ; Value: -2 21:05:39 hooray! 21:06:44 If you're gonna reverse it, you may as well right-fold. :-P 21:06:58 Okay, not strictly true. 21:06:59 kar8nga [~kar8nga@k-170.vc-graz.ac.at] has joined #scheme 21:07:39 So, Olin Shivers explains in SRFI 1 why fold-right uses recursion rather than reversing-then-left-folding. 21:07:59 i was hoping to go for the point that left-associativity vs right-associativity isn't really about whats easier to impelment and more about whats easy to read. so if you think something thats left-associative is hard to read than I would claim that prefix notation is also hard to read 21:08:03 so its sort of an arbitrary choice 21:08:14 Fair enough. 21:15:39 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:18:31 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 21:24:09 -!- molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-195-64.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: tubby bye-bye!] 21:28:02 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 21:42:42 schmir [~schmir@p54A909F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:46:03 Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-27-34-218.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 21:49:36 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A909F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:22 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:00:27 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 22:02:22 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 22:03:17 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-192.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:39 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-192.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 22:08:34 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-197-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:03 ASau [~user@95-27-197-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 22:13:43 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-197-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:11 ASau [~user@95-27-197-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 22:16:55 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@k-170.vc-graz.ac.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:55 -!- mejja [~chatzilla@c-b4b5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:48:16 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 08:48:16 08:48:16 -!- names: ccl-logbot mmc Crito felipe hkBst gravicappa tessier ecraven tali713 xwl_ duncanm githogori notsonerdysunny nilg rapacity Riastradh roderic chemuduguntar MichaelRaskin joast ineiros klutometis z0d fds cky Axioplase_ Zahl_ tizoc stamourv aking jimster zbigniew eli bremner elf DerGuteMoritz gabot lusory n9mtb dlouhy Leonidas askhader inimino Intensity mario-goulart chandler alexsuraci jensn cataska dfeuer aoh erider Quadrescence Obfuscate acarrico leppie 08:48:16 -!- names: mjgoins wgd annodomini pjb asumu NNshag pchrist minsa alaricsp trigen somnium` peddie snorble Euthydemus` clog eldragon Hal9k Jafet homie wbooze offby1 nowhereman timj__ bzzbzz rotty_ Pepe_ sloyd_ foof defn_ C-Keen em_ stepnem eno_ danking pothos borism chrissbx_ gapeme weinholt Kerrick pr_ spacebat certainty timchen1` saccade yosafbridge Dark-Star araujo sid3k rrm3_ qebab shardz Khisanth chandra ve kniu ASau martinhex Caleb-- vu3rdd clklein_ 08:48:16 -!- names: TheRealPygo `micro antoszka mornfall elly XTL samth sjamaan ada2358 jimrees_ gnomon rudybot tonyg_ Modius noonian Nils^ rdd futilius preflex Kovensky Adrinael ToxicFrog ray copumpkin drdo puddingpimp 08:50:41 cinch [~cinch@85-127-114-28.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 08:51:19 Koven [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has joined #scheme 08:53:11 -!- Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:56:31 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:24 mmc [~michal@cs181178061.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 09:21:34 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:22:14 lewis1711 [~lewis@222-155-31-117.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 09:25:16 hmm, where's that scheme interpreter chatbot? 09:29:36 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 09:43:14 schmir [~schmir@p54A912C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 09:45:23 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A912C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:45:35 schmir [~schmir@p54A912C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 09:51:18 also, how does one "grab" the output from (partition type? '(some list)) 09:51:30 -!- minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:51:45 lewis1711: Try call-with-values or receive 09:54:58 -!- Nils^ [hammerfest@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-qawezuegvbfrjhwx] has left #scheme 09:56:55 klaus9 [~user@p54B18E4A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 10:00:49 sjamaan: aha, that's exactly what I wanted! call-with-values 10:04:33 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A912C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06:22 schmir [~schmir@p54A912C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 10:22:15 hmmm, is it considered good practice in scheme to break up functions into smaller functions? it's what I'd do in a C-like, but scheme is pretty different:/ 10:22:27 yes 10:22:30 that is very good practice 10:22:45 provided the functions are at least meaningful 10:22:50 yeah 10:23:35 If they're meaningful in only one way, use LETREC or a local function (define within a define) 10:25:33 as in, meaningful only in the context of the current function? 10:27:12 yes 10:30:10 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 10:30:10 10:30:10 -!- names: ccl-logbot schmir klaus9 martinhex lewis1711 mmc Koven cinch Crito felipe hkBst gravicappa tessier ecraven tali713 xwl_ duncanm githogori notsonerdysunny nilg rapacity Riastradh roderic chemuduguntar MichaelRaskin joast ineiros rdd futilius preflex Adrinael ToxicFrog ray copumpkin drdo puddingpimp noonian Modius tonyg_ rudybot gnomon jimrees_ ada2358 sjamaan samth XTL elly mornfall antoszka `micro TheRealPygo clklein_ vu3rdd Caleb-- ASau kniu ve chandra 10:30:10 -!- names: Khisanth shardz qebab rrm3_ sid3k araujo Dark-Star yosafbridge saccade timchen1` certainty spacebat pr_ Kerrick weinholt gapeme chrissbx_ borism pothos danking eno_ stepnem em_ C-Keen defn_ foof sloyd_ Pepe_ rotty_ bzzbzz timj__ nowhereman offby1 wbooze homie Jafet Hal9k eldragon clog Euthydemus` snorble peddie somnium` trigen alaricsp pchrist NNshag asumu pjb annodomini wgd mjgoins leppie acarrico Obfuscate Quadrescence erider aoh dfeuer cataska jensn 10:30:10 -!- names: alexsuraci chandler mario-goulart Intensity inimino askhader Leonidas dlouhy n9mtb lusory gabot DerGuteMoritz elf bremner eli zbigniew jimster aking stamourv tizoc Zahl_ Axioplase_ cky fds z0d klutometis 10:45:40 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:46:28 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:47:43 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 10:49:20 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 10:54:25 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-196.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 10:55:26 tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has joined #scheme 10:56:57 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-rzayzhbfsytdyaea] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:04 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:04:25 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:07:32 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:07:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #scheme 11:12:01 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 11:12:19 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:14:42 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/304666/ I am really confused why this function isn't splitting up the argument I give it (the way I tried to use function and error message at comments up the top) 11:17:25 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:18:02 ...missing some brackets in the first lambda:) whoops 11:21:02 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 11:24:54 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 11:25:53 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:26:17 masm [~masm@2.80.153.71] has joined #scheme 11:28:36 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:33:49 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 11:48:12 further question: is it unschemely, in a long function, to define the state of your work at some point, to simplify things? 11:50:19 jmd [~john@cellform.com] has joined #scheme 11:55:08 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 11:57:18 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #scheme 11:59:31 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-196.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:05:30 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-35-187-231.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:05:34 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-187-231.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:06:22 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-130-48.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:06:42 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-130-48.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:18:42 ventonegro [~alex@200.150.183.81] has joined #scheme 12:24:05 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.22] has joined #scheme 12:27:45 -!- ventonegro [~alex@200.150.183.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:38:02 -!- kniu [~kniu@DOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:44 lewis1711: It is perhaps unschemely to have a long function, but if that's a given for some reason, then I don't see why it'd be bad to define the state, if by that you mean writing a nice comment (or even asserts) that describe that state 12:42:53 alaricsp: I more mean "saving" your work at some point, by doing (define x (computations done so far)), then doing work on x 12:43:13 It's a bit better to use let* for that 12:43:42 (let* ((result-of-step-1 (initial-stuff)) (result-of-step-2 (further-work result-of-step-1)) ... (final-result)) 12:44:29 Check out and-let*, too, which is a let* that stops and returns #f on the first expression that returns #f, which is sometimes useful for things that could fail at any stage 12:44:34 Saves a heap of ugly nested ifs... 12:44:40 ha 12:44:49 I will do 12:47:36 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/304694/ line 16 is all sorts of messy to me, so was just thinking of the right way to clean it up 12:52:02 jao [~user@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 12:52:02 -!- jao [~user@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:52:02 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 12:53:29 ventonegro [~alex@187.51.143.218] has joined #scheme 12:58:03 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.114.230] has joined #scheme 13:06:05 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:15:04 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #scheme 13:24:03 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 13:24:52 Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has joined #scheme 13:25:15 cinch- [~cinch@85-127-103-77.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 13:28:09 -!- cinch [~cinch@85-127-114-28.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:28:32 -!- Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has quit [Client Quit] 13:34:09 neilcj [~neilcj@c-174-49-216-137.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:42:48 mathk_ [~mathk@dispo-82-250-11-79.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 13:46:43 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:49:28 lewis1711: Maybe something like: http://paste.lisp.org/+2IT2 13:49:37 lewis1711: (Requires SRFI 71.) 13:50:04 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A912C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:26 lewis1711: The biggest improvements are: 1. not partitioning the list twice (and throwing away half the results each time), and 2. using quasiquotes to make the result much more readable. 13:52:08 bookmarked as I am falling asleep soonish:) but doesn't scheme not preform identical things twice? i thought it would split the list once than refer to that when it does it again, when evaluating that 13:52:53 Some Scheme compilers can indeed make such an optimisation, but since it's so easy in this case to save the values, I just did that. 13:52:58 Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has joined #scheme 13:53:09 makes sense 13:53:10 And it makes the code more readable, in this case. 13:53:37 quasiquotes are on the list to learn. as well as all the let forms. oh and some basic macros 13:54:19 Nice. 13:58:19 bleh, that pythonista in scheme land blog is really quite annoying 13:58:33 Then stop reading it! Easy. :-P 13:59:36 "It is clear that the parens are NOT necessary and one could imagine various tricks to reduce their number (I personally tried various approaches when I began programming in Scheme)." 14:00:35 Well, that's what SRFI 49 is for. 14:01:02 SRFI 49 introduces the concept of I-expressions, which is a variant of S-expressions: it uses indentation, rather than brackets, to delimit lists. 14:02:34 eh, the parens never bothered me 14:02:57 almost all editors do bracket highlight matching or whatever 14:03:05 dunno, just seems like a non-issue 14:03:19 I agree it's a non-issue. 14:03:19 much like the whitespace thing in python funnily enough 14:03:25 Indeed. 14:03:51 I just mention that as the standard response to such a complaint, which I understand you don't make. :-) 14:03:59 ha 14:04:35 dunno, haven't found anything to hate about scheme yet. perhaps the lack of constants 14:04:42 So SRFI 49 is like PEP 666? 14:04:49 That makes sense. 14:04:56 *cky* Googles up PEP 666.... 14:05:44 PEP 666 sounds like a strawman. 14:05:59 it sounds like satan 14:06:00 I suppose SRFI 49 also is to a degree, in terms of no real programs using it. 14:06:25 lewis1711: What's a "constant"? 14:06:34 lewis1711: Or how is that different from your stock standard variable bindings? 14:06:36 Well, it was deliberately designed (and even numbered) to be a satire 14:06:47 :-) 14:06:59 cky: something you can't rebind 14:07:42 lewis1711: The standard idiom for these things is to make local bindings (e.g., with let), not reachable from outside the form. 14:07:55 lewis1711: Then as long as the code inside the form behaves, you're all set. 14:08:06 lewis1711: Same deal as JavaScript. :-) 14:08:25 you cite javascript as good design!?:P 14:08:34 lewis1711: No, just as something you may be familiar with. 14:08:38 I dunno, perhaps I can sort something out using one of these "macros" 14:09:11 There's really not much of a point; avoiding global variables is usually the Right Thing to do. 14:09:28 You could also do it Perl-style. 14:09:30 it wouldn't be a problem if they were global constants 14:09:40 global constants are really, really useful 14:09:41 i.e., make your "constants" be nullary functions. 14:10:52 hmm, I'll ahve to look into it 14:10:57 anyway, I am off to bed. laters 14:10:59 -!- lewis1711 [~lewis@222-155-31-117.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #scheme 14:11:00 Have fun! 14:12:18 :)) 14:19:50 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.153.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:27:31 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.96.57.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:28:45 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 14:35:07 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-51-145-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:35:07 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-51-145-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:35:07 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 14:37:07 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:42:15 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-142.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 14:54:01 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 15:07:32 aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 15:16:10 bweaver [~user@host-68-169-175-225.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 15:25:17 -!- asumu [~at@c-71-232-32-44.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:45 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-33-142.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme