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I want it to display "works" every loop. 2017-06-08T14:14:12Z pjb: pass programs in thunks. 2017-06-08T14:14:25Z theseb: pjb: what does that mean? 2017-06-08T14:14:31Z theseb: sorry..learnin the lingo 2017-06-08T14:14:39Z pjb: thunks are anonymous functions with no parameters (closures). 2017-06-08T14:14:48Z theseb: lambdas! 2017-06-08T14:15:05Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-06-08T14:15:09Z pjb: (define (loop n thunk) (if (> 0 n) (begin (thunk) (loop (- n 1) thunk)))) 2017-06-08T14:15:17Z LeoNerd: thunk also (usually) means the function isn't expected to yield any particular result 2017-06-08T14:15:20Z pjb: (loop 3 (lambda () (display "Hi! "))) 2017-06-08T14:15:43Z pjb: Well, (< 0 n) of course. 2017-06-08T14:17:11Z theseb: pjb: for teaching purposes....is it possible to do it with just quotes? lambdas are a tad more advanced than i'm at 2017-06-08T14:18:25Z jao joined #scheme 2017-06-08T14:18:36Z pjb: It is not, as soon as you want to refer names in the lexical environment. 2017-06-08T14:19:10Z pjb: (let ((s 1)) (loop 10 (lambda () (set! s (+ s s))))) cannot be done with quoted forms. 2017-06-08T14:19:36Z mejja quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-06-08T14:19:54Z pjb: (let ((s 1)) (loop 10 '(set! s (+ s s)) (get-current-lexical-environment))) ; <- check r5rs about the environments. 2017-06-08T14:24:22Z theseb: pjb: why did you code have (thunk) instead of just thunk 2017-06-08T14:24:29Z theseb: ? 2017-06-08T14:24:46Z theseb: (define (loop n thunk) (if (> 0 n) (begin (thunk) (loop (- n 1) 2017-06-08T14:24:46Z theseb: thunk)))) 2017-06-08T14:25:14Z pjb: to call the function. 2017-06-08T14:25:24Z pjb: ( means call in scheme. 2017-06-08T14:25:27Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-06-08T14:26:10Z ecraven: theseb: thunk returns whatever thunk's value is, (thunk) calls it, and returns the result of calling it 2017-06-08T14:26:16Z ecraven: just as pjb said ;) 2017-06-08T14:27:12Z theseb: pjb: it works! 2017-06-08T14:27:18Z theseb: pjb: your lambda saved the day! 2017-06-08T14:27:22Z theseb: that was harcore 2017-06-08T14:27:30Z theseb: my brain hurts 2017-06-08T14:27:52Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-06-08T14:28:03Z cemerick joined #scheme 2017-06-08T14:29:31Z jao joined #scheme 2017-06-08T14:29:51Z jcowan joined #scheme 2017-06-08T14:30:47Z jcowan_ joined #scheme 2017-06-08T14:31:00Z pjb: theseb: then you can also define syntax to wrap the body in a thunk. 2017-06-08T14:33:46Z theseb: pjb: how come in java, c, python and many other less hardcore langs you don't seem to need to be so aware of scope, quote, eval, etc? 2017-06-08T14:33:58Z lvo quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-06-08T14:33:59Z theseb: pjb: somehow that never seems to come with those langs like in scheme 2017-06-08T14:34:19Z qu1j0t3: familiarity 2017-06-08T14:34:27Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-06-08T14:34:52Z LeoNerd: Python doesn't *have* scope in the same way as all those other langauges, though 2017-06-08T14:35:07Z theseb: qu1j0t3: it just seems like somehow all that stuff gets "hidden" in such a way that you don't need to worry about it...kind of like how garbage collection hides a lot of tedium 2017-06-08T14:35:08Z LeoNerd: In Python, all variables are function-scoped; they don't have arbitrary block scoping like Scheme has, along with Java/C/.... 2017-06-08T14:35:40Z LeoNerd: Python also doesn't even have ways to declare variables in the first place; any assignment is an implicit declaration if necessary 2017-06-08T14:36:13Z qu1j0t3: theseb: in some cases, like quote, the concepts don't exist in those other languages. but you just seem to be describing what it feels like to learn a bunch of new things. if you think back to the first time you ever wrote a C program, there were undoubtedly the same little breakthroughs. 2017-06-08T14:36:41Z theseb: yea 2017-06-08T14:36:46Z qu1j0t3: expect the same as you learn Scheme or work through SICP (recommended) 2017-06-08T14:39:23Z jcowan_: Most people use C in a simplified way so that all variables have function scope, but in fact C has general block scope (though not over multiple fucntions). 2017-06-08T14:41:04Z qu1j0t3: but no practical closures 2017-06-08T14:41:07Z jcowan_: As for eval, I recommend that if you do use it, you rename it "evil" to warn future readers of your code (including you) 2017-06-08T14:41:12Z qu1j0t3: +1 2017-06-08T14:43:18Z jcowan_ is now known as jcowan 2017-06-08T14:44:40Z jcowan: qu1j0t3: To be fair, function pointers are not full closures, but they are a lot better than nothing, and indeed given no nesting of procedures, function pointers *are* closures, they just have nothing to cclose over. 2017-06-08T14:45:35Z theseb: jcowan: are you a PhD student? "function pointers are not full closures"......I never say things that sound that smart and hardcore 2017-06-08T14:45:51Z theseb: "in fact C has general block scope"..same thing 2017-06-08T14:46:48Z jcowan: Neither doctor nor master nor bachelor am I, but plain John of New Avalon. 2017-06-08T14:47:04Z LeoNerd: There are nonstandard C extensions that allow function nesting; e.g. gcc lets you do it 2017-06-08T14:47:10Z jcowan nods 2017-06-08T14:47:17Z jcowan: I think clang supports that too 2017-06-08T14:47:19Z pjb: that's why you keep seeing functions taking function pointers along with a void* and passing this void* to the function. 2017-06-08T14:47:30Z pjb: closures are needed, so you have to do it by hand in C… 2017-06-08T14:47:53Z sssilver joined #scheme 2017-06-08T14:48:00Z jcowan: Greenspun's Tenth Law 2017-06-08T14:48:15Z LeoNerd: I don't think I've ever encountered Greenspun's First to Ninth 2017-06-08T14:48:25Z jcowan: They don't exist, on purpose. 2017-06-08T14:48:28Z pjb: :-) 2017-06-08T14:48:47Z jcowan: s/law/rule 2017-06-08T14:49:14Z jcowan: "Sorry, Han-Wen, but there aren't 9 preceding laws. I was just trying to give the rule a memorable name." 2017-06-08T14:51:01Z jcowan: Note that Lisp implementations are not immune to the Tenth Rule either, as Robert Morris pointed out. 2017-06-08T14:51:11Z Steverman joined #scheme 2017-06-08T14:52:04Z qu1j0t3: theseb: do you write JavaScript? 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Why do they say "as far as foo" and end it there? 2017-06-08T18:25:03Z pjb: meaning, technically, they have a very small short term memory. 2017-06-08T18:25:45Z mason: pjb: That's a generous interpretation. 2017-06-08T18:26:09Z pjb: if they had short term memory with one more slot, they could stack the fact that they're inside a quote, and after having processed the subsentence, they would remember and could unstack the unquote. 2017-06-08T18:26:22Z mason: hah 2017-06-08T18:26:36Z pjb: But they don't have enough short term memory slots, so they have to push the unquote as fast as possible to avoid forgetting it, and go on with their sentence. 2017-06-08T18:26:39Z kori: ecraven: polish notation 2017-06-08T18:27:06Z kori: (quote-unquote nutjob) -> "nutjob" 2017-06-08T18:27:14Z kori: Easy 2017-06-08T18:27:22Z ecraven: kori: ah, now *that* would explain it ;) 2017-06-08T18:27:31Z pjb: easier than nutjob at least. 2017-06-08T18:28:00Z mason: (quote nutjob) is really what they want. 2017-06-08T18:28:04Z mason: Or just 'nutjob. 2017-06-08T18:28:36Z pjb: (quote (the (red big) stan)) 2017-06-08T18:33:57Z dbmikus quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-06-08T18:34:27Z badkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-06-08T18:34:56Z badkins joined #scheme 2017-06-08T18:35:04Z terpri joined #scheme 2017-06-08T18:35:33Z dbmikus joined #scheme 2017-06-08T18:36:21Z jaziz joined #scheme 2017-06-08T18:46:31Z sleffy joined #scheme 2017-06-08T18:50:33Z kammd quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2017-06-08T18:53:23Z justinethier joined #scheme 2017-06-08T19:01:25Z sssilver quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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Words that are newer than 1900 are all suspect. 2017-06-08T21:26:28Z p9s quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-06-08T21:50:05Z justinethier quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-06-08T21:58:46Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-06-08T22:02:58Z lloda`` joined #scheme 2017-06-08T22:03:45Z fgudin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-06-08T22:03:59Z fgudin joined #scheme 2017-06-08T22:04:58Z lloda` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-06-08T22:05:32Z vicenteH quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-06-08T22:07:51Z mlaine quit (Quit: so long) 2017-06-08T22:08:04Z mlaine joined #scheme 2017-06-08T22:08:48Z sethalves quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-06-08T22:12:34Z jcowan: mason: I might even say 1600. 2017-06-08T22:22:34Z p9s joined #scheme 2017-06-08T22:27:24Z brendyn joined #scheme 2017-06-08T22:42:41Z sssilver quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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