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2017-06-06T12:14:31Z ecraven: ;)
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2017-06-06T15:47:24Z justinethier: ecraven: are you there?
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2017-06-06T16:07:44Z ecraven: justinethier: now
2017-06-06T16:08:12Z ecraven: though off to dinner ;) back later, just write, I'll respond
2017-06-06T16:08:49Z justinethier: ecraven: no problem. question for you - do you have time this week to run a new set of r7rs benchmarks? :)
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2017-06-06T16:17:49Z justinethier: ecraven: Just released a new version of cyclone: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/cyclone-scheme/ . There's a new Racket, too: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/racket/
2017-06-06T16:17:55Z jcowan: Yeah!
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2017-06-06T16:27:55Z ecraven: ah, sorry, I think I already ran one, but forgot to publish it
2017-06-06T16:27:58Z ecraven: I'll rerun!
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2017-06-06T16:39:14Z justinethier: ecraven: no worries. just released 0.5.2 yesterday though :)
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2017-06-06T16:39:33Z justinethier: ecraven: thank you
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2017-06-06T16:48:20Z ecraven: justinethier: thanks, just compiled, installed, benchmark running now
2017-06-06T16:48:23Z ecraven: takes about 24h I think
2017-06-06T16:48:34Z ecraven: I also added femtolisp, not sure how many benchmarks it actually manages to run
2017-06-06T16:49:04Z justinethier: ecraven: thanks again, much appreciated :)
2017-06-06T16:49:16Z justinethier: I'm curious about femtolisp too
2017-06-06T16:49:28Z ecraven: no problem, sorry for not being more attentive recently, I still need to find a good process to monitor when new versions are released
2017-06-06T16:49:39Z ecraven: also, I need to rewrite it all in scheme instead of bash
2017-06-06T16:50:03Z justinethier: don't worry about it
2017-06-06T16:50:56Z justinethier: would it be worth creating a script to check each scheme? could be something a simple as screen-scraping each place that has a release
2017-06-06T16:52:11Z ecraven: maybe, but right now I depend on having arch linux packages for everything
2017-06-06T16:52:20Z ecraven: many of which I submitted and update when I think of it ;)
2017-06-06T16:52:26Z justinethier: :)
2017-06-06T16:52:53Z ecraven: I've started on a chibi script to run things through various schemes, but got sidetracked
2017-06-06T16:53:02Z ecraven: I still want to pursue r7rs-coverage further
2017-06-06T16:53:08Z ecraven: also, I've learned more about css3, so
2017-06-06T16:53:15Z ecraven: I might be able to make a better page now ;)
2017-06-06T16:53:20Z ecraven: flexbox is actually nice
2017-06-06T16:55:11Z justinethier: very cool :)
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2017-06-06T17:00:49Z justinethier: there's an AUR API: https://aur.archlinux.org/rpc/?v=5&type=info&arg[]=cyclone-scheme&arg[]=bones
2017-06-06T17:01:05Z justinethier: suppose that doesn't help much if you have to repackage new releases though...
2017-06-06T17:02:29Z ecraven: well, mostly I just bump the version, and things work fine
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2017-06-06T17:02:49Z ecraven: also, those schemes I packaged are the more obscure ones, which don't update often anyway
2017-06-06T17:03:58Z justinethier: ah
2017-06-06T17:05:10Z justinethier: I suppose you are pulling most of the updated schemes off of the official repo, not the AUR
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2017-06-06T17:07:55Z ecraven: yes, if I find a version in core, I use that
2017-06-06T17:08:07Z ecraven: but many don't have one. I used guile-git for some time, but now 2.2 has been released for some time
2017-06-06T17:11:29Z jcowan: Thanks for doing this, ecraven
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2017-06-06T17:12:07Z ecraven: jcowan: sorry for not doing more ATM ;)
2017-06-06T17:12:08Z justinethier: hmm, there is a web API for the community repo, EG: - https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/i686/chicken/json/
2017-06-06T17:12:28Z justinethier: ecraven: just providing the benchmarks is HUGE
2017-06-06T17:12:38Z jcowan: ecraven: Service to the community is its own reward (it better be)
2017-06-06T17:13:06Z ecraven: well, I'm still not entirely sure everything is fully ok with the benchmarks, I want to fully check each and every run for each scheme at some point, to find out why some things fail
2017-06-06T17:13:25Z ecraven: but for that, it would be good to see the actual output for each run on the web (which I plan to implement ASAP)
2017-06-06T17:13:39Z justinethier: I feel bad bothering you about it because I know it takes a fair amount of your time to run them
2017-06-06T17:13:41Z ecraven: also, categories like "compiled", "bytecode" and things would be nice
2017-06-06T17:14:07Z ecraven: justinethier: oh, the running is very simple, takes 3 minutes to start, then 3 minutes to push the results.. I just have to wait for them to finish, and then to not forget ;)
2017-06-06T17:14:17Z justinethier: you include the results files, which has some of that?
2017-06-06T17:14:22Z ecraven: so feel free to ping me tomorrow evening or in two days, in case I forgot again ;)
2017-06-06T17:14:53Z justinethier: ecraven: yeah but then you have to update AUR packages, etc
2017-06-06T17:15:16Z justinethier: haha, OK, I'll ping if you forget :)
2017-06-06T17:15:46Z justinethier: thanks
2017-06-06T17:15:54Z ecraven: justinethier: yea, but as I said, mostly other people do that anyway ;)
2017-06-06T17:17:04Z justinethier: true
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2017-06-06T17:31:43Z ecraven: also, it would be really great to get the major implementations to at least mostly support r7rs small :-)
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2017-06-06T17:33:19Z ecraven: hehe, for example I was just wondering why the larceny arch package is out of date, and realized actually *I* am the maintainer! new version was released may 2016 :-/
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2017-06-06T17:46:21Z justinethier: oh no
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2017-06-06T17:48:46Z ecraven: same for ocilib.. I should really check more often :-/
2017-06-06T17:56:40Z justinethier: ecraven: is this helpful at all? - https://github.com/justinethier/r7rs-benchmarks/blob/master/check-versions.py
2017-06-06T17:59:12Z ecraven: justinethier: I'll need to think about it
2017-06-06T17:59:47Z ecraven: ideally, every implementation would announce new versions on planet scheme, or somewhere. but I don't think there is any one channel that everybody is willing to use
2017-06-06T18:00:15Z ecraven: but thanks for writing that, I'll think about how to use it (and rewrite it in chibi :P)
2017-06-06T18:00:49Z justinethier: no problem
2017-06-06T18:01:24Z justinethier: yeah, it should be in Scheme :)
2017-06-06T18:02:11Z justinethier: you know, this page would be great if it had version information. but maintaining it would be a big job: http://community.schemewiki.org/?scheme-faq-standards#implementations
2017-06-06T18:03:12Z ecraven: exactly
2017-06-06T18:03:20Z ecraven: you'd need something automated ;)
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2017-06-06T18:58:55Z ecraven: hm... I guess the best thing would be to mark the common source files with comments like ;;;; <before-import>  etc. for injection of implementation-specific code?
2017-06-06T18:59:23Z ecraven: like (define-syntax import () ((import x ...) #t)) :D
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2017-06-06T19:24:01Z jcowan: justinethier: We do have a page with version info on TRAC
2017-06-06T19:24:28Z justinethier: do you have a link?
2017-06-06T19:24:32Z jcowan: http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/SchemeImplementationReleases
2017-06-06T19:24:35Z jcowan: out of date
2017-06-06T19:24:37Z jcowan: of course
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2017-06-06T19:48:30Z justinethier: jcowan: that would be a very useful list if it were up to date
2017-06-06T19:48:59Z jcowan: I am no longer maintaining my test suite, but it shouldn't be hard to click through and see what the current versions are
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2017-06-06T19:49:09Z ecraven: justinethier: what would you use it for?
2017-06-06T19:49:14Z ecraven: also, would you want current versions, or history?
2017-06-06T19:50:24Z justinethier: ecraven: well, I suppose the current versions are the truly useful part
2017-06-06T19:50:58Z ecraven: are they more useful than just a list of all the implementations?
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2017-06-06T19:56:11Z ecraven: not trying to be annoying, I'm just not sure I see the point :-/
2017-06-06T19:56:41Z justinethier: yeah, just thinking it through
2017-06-06T19:57:12Z justinethier: I suppose its interesting but how often do you really need such a list
2017-06-06T19:58:16Z justinethier: have you seen femtolisp run yet? :)
2017-06-06T19:59:09Z justinethier: I should just try running it myself, but I'm really curious
2017-06-06T19:59:39Z jcowan: I have run it as part of ImplementationContrasts page, but there I am mostly interested in dealing with works/doesn't work.
2017-06-06T20:01:32Z ecraven: it isn't very close to r7rs from what i saw, so most test probably fail
2017-06-06T20:01:53Z jcowan: I'm sure
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2017-06-06T20:02:26Z jcowan: Unfortunately I do not have ImplementationContrasts indexed by implementation, only by topic
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2017-06-06T20:06:45Z justinethier: hmmm, sboyer finished in 18.579
2017-06-06T20:07:08Z justinethier: cyclone finished in 15.6 on this machine, so that's not bad
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2017-06-06T20:08:29Z justinethier: and 16.24 for nboyer, that's pretty good
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2017-06-06T20:59:54Z schaeffer: out of curiosity, what's the (rough) breakdown on people who use premade scheme implementations vs. rolling their own?
2017-06-06T21:09:33Z ijp: approx 1:100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
2017-06-06T21:10:14Z schaeffer: haha
2017-06-06T21:11:53Z justinethier: rolling your own is a surprisingly large amount of work
2017-06-06T21:12:07Z schaeffer: trust me, i've tried
2017-06-06T21:12:21Z schaeffer: doesn't seem so surprising after you get past a weekend hack level of scheme
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2017-06-06T21:21:59Z jcowan_: It's easy and quick to make a toy Scheme, and most of the Schemes on the Fairly Complete List are toy Schemes
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2017-06-06T22:01:17Z akkad: is compose the same as cut?
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2017-06-06T22:04:05Z ijp: no
2017-06-06T22:05:42Z ijp: compose takes functions and plugs them together, output of one -> input of next, to give a new function
2017-06-06T22:06:33Z ijp: cut is a macro to specialise a function with a given number of arguments to produce another
2017-06-06T22:08:39Z ijp: ((compose wibble wobble) x) ~ (wibble (wobble x))
2017-06-06T22:09:11Z ijp: ((cut ham <> eggs) spam) ~ (ham spam eggs)
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