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2017-05-29T02:07:32Z libfud: I'm trying to figure out the best way to represent an object
2017-05-29T02:07:46Z libfud: and I was about to paste my file
2017-05-29T02:07:51Z libfud: but realized I had to change something real fast
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2017-05-29T02:11:30Z libfud: https://a.uguu.se/JWSfU47NyHhA_ksp_calcs.txt
2017-05-29T02:12:13Z libfud: the relevant portions are the definitions of the records for engine, tank and booster
2017-05-29T02:13:33Z libfud: the issue being that i'm representing a booster as an engine and a tank, each of which has a name field
2017-05-29T02:14:03Z libfud: but I'd like only one name field for booster to reduce redundancy
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2017-05-29T02:16:11Z libfud: is it possible to omit the name field entirely and use the identifier of the record somehow?
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2017-05-29T03:48:00Z aeth: libfud: That looks like it might be a good question for #lispgames (it's mostly CL, but it does have a large Scheme minority)
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2017-05-29T03:48:58Z aeth: davexunit is one of the Schemers in that channel.
2017-05-29T03:49:46Z rocx: aeth: guile maintainer too.
2017-05-29T03:56:00Z libfud: oh?
2017-05-29T03:56:14Z libfud: it's actually not a game
2017-05-29T03:56:19Z libfud: but it is a calculator for one
2017-05-29T03:56:21Z aeth: right, you're just doing calculations for KSP
2017-05-29T03:56:21Z libfud: lol
2017-05-29T03:56:25Z libfud: yeah
2017-05-29T03:56:35Z libfud: >_< the new update killed all my mods
2017-05-29T03:56:55Z aeth: but your architecture issues are probably similar to those faced by people making games
2017-05-29T03:57:16Z libfud: true enough
2017-05-29T03:57:19Z aeth: You're essentially rewriting a portion of a game in Scheme, just a tiny portion of it
2017-05-29T03:59:01Z libfud: this is as much an exercise in strengthening my scheme skills as it is getting something done
2017-05-29T03:59:54Z libfud: I've been doing a lot of work in C#/XAML lately and it's refreshing to use a non...verbose language again
2017-05-29T04:00:13Z aeth: My reasoning for recommending #lispgames, though, is that if there's a group of people with experience in adapting OOP to handling game data in Scheme, it's probably the Schemers there.
2017-05-29T04:00:58Z libfud: yeah
2017-05-29T04:01:09Z aeth: Although almost all of them are probably also here
2017-05-29T04:01:17Z aeth: Though some CLers who know some Scheme might also know what to do
2017-05-29T04:02:31Z libfud: I see
2017-05-29T04:03:06Z libfud: on an aside, do you know how much lisp/scheme still gets used in the field?
2017-05-29T04:03:40Z noethics: it's all aboput c++ and lua afaik
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2017-05-29T04:04:16Z libfud: lua?
2017-05-29T04:04:24Z noethics: mhmm
2017-05-29T04:04:36Z libfud: I would have thought python would be ahead of that
2017-05-29T04:04:44Z libfud: or do you mean specifically for games?
2017-05-29T04:04:50Z noethics: specifically for games
2017-05-29T04:05:01Z libfud: I meant in a very broad sense
2017-05-29T04:05:31Z noethics: idk i had a job offer that included using clojure recently, but it's anecdotal
2017-05-29T04:05:39Z libfud: ooh
2017-05-29T04:06:19Z libfud still needs to learn more about FP
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2017-05-29T04:09:27Z aeth: Lua is a tiny, fast, embeddable, sandboxable language, so it goes well with covering for the flaws of C++.
2017-05-29T04:09:56Z aeth: And in turn, it has many, many flaws, which C++ covers, such as not having real data structures except for tables. (It's sort of Scheme-like, but instead of lists, it has tables, and instead of abandoning the everything-in-one-data-structure decades ago, it stuck with it)
2017-05-29T04:10:52Z aeth: Also, programmers tend to be driven by groupthink (see: JavaScript) so once one game ships Lua a lot of others do too
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2017-05-29T04:11:49Z aeth: Is Lua better than one of a dozen embeddable Schemes to use with C or C++? Maybe, maybe not, but it's popular in gamedev, so gamedev uses it because people know it.
2017-05-29T04:12:04Z aeth: Python was sometimes used instead of Lua, but it's not sandboxable, it's not small, and it's not fast.
2017-05-29T04:12:22Z aeth: So in 2017 it has practically disappeared in that niche.
2017-05-29T04:12:41Z noethics: how fast is the fastest scheme?
2017-05-29T04:13:06Z libfud: does it count if it's compiled to C?
2017-05-29T04:13:11Z noethics: no
2017-05-29T04:13:13Z aeth: Depends on what you benchmark. Note that you'd need to be fast *and* sandboxed, though, and the fasatest Scheme might not be.
2017-05-29T04:13:40Z noethics: unless it also compiles to c for its interpreter
2017-05-29T04:13:41Z aeth: LuaJIT is probably one of the faster JITs, though, just due to the demand to make it fast, like with e.g. JavaScript.
2017-05-29T04:14:15Z noethics: yeah that's the thing
2017-05-29T04:14:17Z noethics: luajit
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2017-05-29T04:14:30Z noethics: i think chez is reasonably fast but idk if it jits
2017-05-29T04:14:40Z aeth: Generally, languages become popular for arbitrary reasons and then get optimized due to popularity. So Scheme is probably not as fast as it could be, because getting popular first is the first step.
2017-05-29T04:14:58Z aeth: Speed trails popularity, see e.g. how much JavaScript or even (further back) Java improved when it took off.
2017-05-29T04:15:11Z noethics: well in the case of chez it was optimized heavily by cisco
2017-05-29T04:15:39Z noethics: popularity doesn't matter if you have high paying customers
2017-05-29T04:16:03Z aeth: Well, yes, it's about total money in the ecosystem.
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2017-05-29T04:16:42Z aeth: It's also about age, too. Scheme is old at this point, and so plenty of implementations have had opportunities for optimizations, even if the progress is slower than if they were more popular.
2017-05-29T04:17:39Z noethics: for all the scheme material out there you think there'd be a pillar
2017-05-29T04:17:48Z noethics: but i know what you mean
2017-05-29T04:18:07Z libfud: I don't use interpreted languages for the speed
2017-05-29T04:18:15Z aeth: noethics: Scheme was more of an academic thing, though.
2017-05-29T04:18:22Z noethics: so was haskell
2017-05-29T04:18:25Z aeth: libfud: Lisps/Schemes can be compiled.
2017-05-29T04:18:29Z libfud: I know
2017-05-29T04:18:39Z aeth: noethics: I suspect haskell performance trailed popularity
2017-05-29T04:18:45Z noethics: it did
2017-05-29T04:18:47Z noethics: afaik
2017-05-29T04:18:48Z libfud: I value them because it seems a hell of a lot easier to focus on the actual logic of the task at hand
2017-05-29T04:19:34Z libfud:  and I'd like to learn more FP (and Haskell) for the verifiability
2017-05-29T04:19:58Z aeth: libfud: try Typed Racket. http://docs.racket-lang.org/ts-guide/index.html
2017-05-29T04:20:03Z libfud: programming isn't my bread and butter, although I hope
2017-05-29T04:20:06Z libfud: aeth: duly noted
2017-05-29T04:20:39Z libfud: I hope that in my jobs in the future will involve it
2017-05-29T04:21:53Z libfud: are there good racket interpreters for linux?
2017-05-29T04:22:20Z libfud: I know about DrRacket for windows but I'm loathe to boot into that since 10 keeps fucking with grub
2017-05-29T04:23:06Z aeth: Racket is just Racket.
2017-05-29T04:23:22Z aeth: DrRacket is one interface into it, but you can also access it through emacs + geiser.
2017-05-29T04:24:07Z libfud: thanks
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2017-05-29T04:24:42Z libfud: luckily I already use emacs
2017-05-29T04:25:34Z aeth: then in M-x package-list-packages install geiser (you might need to add MELPA first, if you haven't already) and then M-x geiser and select racket to use racket
2017-05-29T04:25:42Z aeth: geiser also supports chez, chibi, chicken, guile, and mit
2017-05-29T04:26:24Z aeth: That's a growing list. I don't think it used to support chibi or chez or mit/gnu scheme
2017-05-29T04:27:05Z aeth: chibi is a good schem to test r7rs in because it was (afaik) the first to implement r7rs-small.
2017-05-29T04:27:31Z aeth: If geiser had supported it a while back, it would have saved me a lot of trouble.
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2017-05-29T04:31:06Z libfud: ah, my friend just showed up out of the blue
2017-05-29T04:31:20Z libfud: aeth: thanks for the help, I'll check out geiser and typed racket
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2017-05-29T05:16:58Z aeth: libfud: I'm not sure if you ever got any help on your object question
2017-05-29T05:19:33Z aeth: Reading over it again, you might be looking for symbol->string
2017-05-29T05:21:46Z akkad: is there not a srfi for marshall/unmarshall of data structures?
2017-05-29T05:21:50Z akkad: serialization lib
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2017-05-29T05:22:29Z aeth: libfud: And then you might want to put the objects in some place that uses a symbol instead of a variable name, e.g. a hash-table
2017-05-29T05:22:56Z aeth: s/a symbol/a quoted symbol/
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2017-05-29T05:27:33Z aeth: akkad: Personally, I prefer writing my own serialization with my own data structures because general serialization of the whole language isn't secure and so is a trusted-sources-only solution...
2017-05-29T05:28:30Z aeth: (i.e. if you can read in anything, you can read in *anything*)
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2017-05-29T05:34:44Z akkad:  ((hash-get dbs name) => values) never seen this syntax
2017-05-29T05:35:18Z akkad: this is for lmdb aeth. want to store a hash to a value.
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2017-05-29T05:51:16Z akkad: object->u8vector is in gambit
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2017-05-29T19:42:58Z mejja: java, javascript, python, ruby & php
2017-05-29T19:43:08Z mejja: https://github.com/gambit/gambit/tree/master/bin
2017-05-29T19:44:31Z mejja: Are magic mushrooms legal in Canada?
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2017-05-29T20:18:16Z mejja: rudybot: php
2017-05-29T20:18:17Z rudybot: mejja: php is php
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2017-05-29T20:24:00Z mejja: rudybot: xkcd 386
2017-05-29T20:24:00Z rudybot: mejja: https://xkcd.com/386/
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2017-05-29T20:28:48Z mejja: Riastradh: missing context arg  http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/mit-scheme.git/tree/src/runtime/unpars.scm#n349
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