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2017-05-19T05:14:23Z happy_gnu: hello :)
2017-05-19T05:15:01Z happy_gnu: I am starting SICP and I am watching the MIT videos
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2017-05-19T05:21:01Z pookleblinky: happy_gnu: which scheme are you using?
2017-05-19T05:21:08Z happy_gnu: guile :)
2017-05-19T05:21:12Z happy_gnu: with emacs
2017-05-19T05:21:23Z pookleblinky: Are you using geiser?
2017-05-19T05:21:35Z happy_gnu: I think so
2017-05-19T05:21:41Z happy_gnu: i have to do
2017-05-19T05:21:49Z happy_gnu: m-x run-geiser
2017-05-19T05:22:01Z pookleblinky: Nice, that's a great setup
2017-05-19T05:22:11Z happy_gnu: I am happy learning
2017-05-19T05:22:19Z happy_gnu: but I feel like I need to learn more math :/
2017-05-19T05:22:35Z happy_gnu: with the newtons method for square roots and fibonnaci sequences
2017-05-19T05:22:39Z happy_gnu: I am just starting
2017-05-19T05:22:58Z pookleblinky: try this: (time (fast-expt foo)) etc
2017-05-19T05:23:35Z happy_gnu: also one of the videos had an explanation of the derivate of a circle dx/dy something like that
2017-05-19T05:23:41Z happy_gnu: I feel bad not knowing more math :/
2017-05-19T05:23:54Z pookleblinky: It's very cool to see (fast-fib 4000) finish in well under a second, compared to the naive tree recursive way
2017-05-19T05:23:57Z happy_gnu: in law school they don't teach you math at all
2017-05-19T05:24:08Z happy_gnu: yes!
2017-05-19T05:24:29Z happy_gnu: this seems so different from python and javascript
2017-05-19T05:24:38Z happy_gnu: I feel like I am actually learning about computers
2017-05-19T05:24:44Z pookleblinky: Sussman also wrote Structure and Interpretation of Classical Mechanics, which is basically scheme turned toward Lagrangian physics
2017-05-19T05:24:47Z happy_gnu: but I also feel a little intimdated
2017-05-19T05:24:58Z pookleblinky: SICP will blow your mind
2017-05-19T05:25:22Z happy_gnu: it is blowing my mind already
2017-05-19T05:25:29Z happy_gnu: I should have studied this
2017-05-19T05:25:31Z happy_gnu: not law :/
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2017-05-19T05:26:33Z pookleblinky: Think of it this way: legalese is the worst possible programming language. It's cartoonishly complex and almost impossible to debug.
2017-05-19T05:26:48Z happy_gnu: ohh I meant law as a lawyer
2017-05-19T05:26:55Z pookleblinky: You are learning a language that is the exact opposite. It's so simple that even a computer can understand it.
2017-05-19T05:27:07Z happy_gnu: I didn't know there was a language called law
2017-05-19T05:27:58Z pookleblinky: Oh, it's definitely a program. Consider a constitution. One giant program, written by people who wouldn't know what a race condition is if it bit them
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2017-05-19T05:28:58Z pookleblinky: Written by people who had no idea about type systems, no clue about invariants or input sanitization, etc
2017-05-19T05:29:08Z pookleblinky: More lawyers should learn lisp
2017-05-19T05:29:15Z happy_gnu: there is so much more to learn :/
2017-05-19T05:30:02Z happy_gnu: I have a friend who studied programming
2017-05-19T05:30:33Z happy_gnu: I taught her on how to install gnu/linux and a cups server
2017-05-19T05:30:51Z happy_gnu: she can't belive that as a lawyer I can understand this stuff
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2017-05-19T05:31:36Z happy_gnu: But know with lisp I think I am the most excited I've ever been about using a compture
2017-05-19T05:31:38Z happy_gnu: computer
2017-05-19T05:34:27Z happy_gnu: pookleblinky: do you think I need to learn more math?
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2017-05-19T05:40:28Z pookleblinky: happy_gnu: why not both? try out Project Euler, etc
2017-05-19T05:41:10Z pookleblinky: Project Euler is a great way of not only improving programming thinking, but math skills as well.
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2017-05-19T06:24:56Z happy_gnu: pookleblinky: ok :)
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2017-05-19T13:18:17Z ecraven: sometimes, when inventing the 15th special type of DSL for defining structures (persistent structures, xml-serializing structures, ...), I envy CL's CLOS a bit
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2017-05-19T13:47:17Z jcowan: ecraven: Well, there are lots of object packages for Scheme (Meroon, TinyCLOS, etc. etc.)
2017-05-19T13:47:33Z jcowan: So many that I made an executive decision to take object systems off the table for R7RS-large.
2017-05-19T13:50:09Z gwatt: jcowan: are you going to reconsider that? Clearly it's a desired feature.
2017-05-19T13:52:39Z jcowan: If people insist on it, I'll call for a vote.  I am not a BD, much less FL.
2017-05-19T13:53:25Z jcowan: There are a lot of Schemes that have their own native systems, and I'm not sure how (if at all) I'd be able to design a facade that layered over them.  A bag on the side wouldn't be a good idea.
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2017-05-19T13:54:02Z jcowan: I do want to standardize generic functions based on predicates rather than classes, though.
2017-05-19T13:54:19Z jcowan: That's easy, portable, and can be souped up to fit in with existing object systems.
2017-05-19T13:55:11Z gwatt: makes sense
2017-05-19T13:55:11Z jcowan: I am also thinking that there are too many problems with even single inheritance of slots a la SRFI 99, and that the world is moving away from inheritance anyway.
2017-05-19T13:55:32Z gwatt: Depends which world you live in.
2017-05-19T13:55:47Z gwatt: but it does seem like that
2017-05-19T13:56:20Z pjb: Only the worlds where they've got a broken OOS.  CLOS and Smalltalk don't move away from it at all.
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2017-05-19T13:59:09Z gwatt: smalltalk is more about "what can this do" than "what is this thing"
2017-05-19T14:00:34Z jcowan: I don't agree there, at least not historic Smalltalk
2017-05-19T14:01:14Z jcowan: C++ people are always talking about the "Smalltalk style" in which Set inherits from Dictionary, even though sets are not dictionaries.
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2017-05-19T14:05:04Z jcowan: "What can this do" is more the domain of Python
2017-05-19T14:07:14Z ventonegro: It seems to me you are agreeing instead of disagreeing. Sets are not dictionaries but dictionaries can do what sets do.
2017-05-19T14:11:17Z jcowan: Conceptually, yes.  But I meant that sets do not, in general, accept set operations.
2017-05-19T14:11:53Z jcowan: SRFI 113 sets (in the sample impl) contain a dictionary (hash table) rather than being a dictionary.
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2017-05-19T14:12:25Z gwatt: jcowan: the wording "sets do not accept set operations" was slightly confusing
2017-05-19T14:12:36Z jcowan: s/sets do not/dictionaries do not
2017-05-19T14:14:10Z jcowan: actually no
2017-05-19T14:14:36Z jcowan: I actually meant "sets do not accept dictionary operations"
2017-05-19T14:15:24Z jcowan: and the fact that they do in ST is an abstraction leakage
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2017-05-19T14:26:46Z ecraven: jcowan: the point is less about existing systems, but object systems that are extensible enough to cover *all* of these (and many more) applications :-/
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2017-05-19T18:38:27Z ecraven: so rather a powerful MOP than a finished system :-/ something like eulisp has
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