2017-05-13T00:10:17Z DeeEff: I wrote one a while back.
2017-05-13T00:10:23Z DeeEff: If I can find it I'll post it
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2017-05-13T00:35:28Z DeeEff: ecce_homo: http://paste.call-cc.org/paste?id=c33afdb95320f77bea90b45b251e944e10a65b6f
2017-05-13T00:35:31Z DeeEff: this is how I do it
2017-05-13T00:36:01Z DeeEff: I substitute the fold-right for a let-reverse and a left fold
2017-05-13T00:36:06Z DeeEff: but I think this is the classic way to do it
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2017-05-13T00:44:59Z mejja: The classic way is an append-map and a recursice call.
2017-05-13T00:45:17Z DeeEff: meija see above URL
2017-05-13T00:45:18Z DeeEff: :)
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2017-05-13T12:55:38Z Lambda_: Hey
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2017-05-13T12:58:27Z Lambda_: Hey
2017-05-13T12:58:58Z TheLemonMan: Hey
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2017-05-13T15:03:22Z qu1j0t3: well the typo was fixed
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2017-05-13T20:25:49Z blims: hello friends. i try to make a n-cartesian product.. i'm almost there (https://hastebin.com/zagazokazo.lisp). can someone give me a hint, pls?
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2017-05-13T21:10:49Z pjb: blims: notice that A × B × C = (A × B) × C = A × (B × C)
2017-05-13T21:11:18Z pjb: blims: are you using punched cards?
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2017-05-13T21:29:22Z blims: pjb ..well, you mean insight in associativity is recipe for reciprocity?
2017-05-13T21:30:18Z blims: why punchcards? if it's a joke, make me understand it.. =)
2017-05-13T21:30:42Z pjb: blims: you're formating your code as if you were punching it on punched cards.
2017-05-13T21:31:08Z pjb: Nowadays we use visual editors, and lisp code can be formated nicely.
2017-05-13T21:32:29Z aeth: *We* use visual editors? I'm sure some people out there still use ed, the *standard* text editor. https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html
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2017-05-13T21:34:53Z pjb: Then you would format it like this: http://sprunge.us/dBfg
2017-05-13T21:35:30Z blims: ohh, i'm very sorry and did not want to offend someone.. i'm never really sure, how to format it to myself..sometimes, when it's complicated i split it in order to oversee; at other times i make it compact..
2017-05-13T21:35:34Z pjb: parentheses alone on their line are good when they're actually on a punched card, since this allows you to add or remove parentheses by adding or removing cards, without going back to the 029 room.
2017-05-13T21:35:50Z blims: haha..this one i got.. :)
2017-05-13T21:36:01Z aeth: pjb: So *that* is why C does things the way they do things
2017-05-13T21:36:25Z blims: (and it was serious business that time..)
2017-05-13T21:36:55Z aeth: (Really, the whole point of C is high-level assembly for the PDP-11.)
2017-05-13T21:36:58Z pjb: Well, C started on teletypes (with punched paper tapes).
2017-05-13T21:38:11Z pjb: teletypes were slow (300 b/s) and keys were hard to press, this is why unix and C use short identifiers. creat instead of create.  fcntl instead of file_control By the end of the day, those saved keys made a significant differences on the little fingers of T, K&R.
2017-05-13T21:39:15Z pjb: So: A × B × C = A × (B × C)  let you write you function by implementing a 2-cartesian cross-product, which may be easier than considering the general case at once.
2017-05-13T21:39:45Z pjb: On the other hand, you have to consider the generalization: (crossproduct '()).
2017-05-13T21:40:26Z pjb: What is the type of the argument to crossproduct? What is the type of its result?
2017-05-13T21:41:14Z blims: the type is a list of lists..(or just lists)..as is the result
2017-05-13T21:42:43Z pjb: Are you sure for the result?
2017-05-13T21:42:43Z blims: well, the generalization is what makes me stumble..
2017-05-13T21:42:48Z pjb: Notice that a list can be empty.
2017-05-13T21:42:51Z pjb: Can the result be empty?
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2017-05-13T21:43:47Z pjb: blims: What would be the result of (crossproduct '( (1 2 3) ) )?
2017-05-13T21:44:02Z blims: productsum of A:='(1 2 3) with '() will give me A, i thought..
2017-05-13T21:44:15Z pjb: Nope.
2017-05-13T21:44:40Z pjb: blims: What would be the result of (crossproduct '( (1 2 3)  (x)) )?
2017-05-13T21:44:44Z blims: oh, i see..
2017-05-13T21:45:50Z blims: it would be (1 x) (2 x) (3 x)
2017-05-13T21:47:40Z pjb: Yes, so for (crossproduct '( (1 2 3) ))?
2017-05-13T21:48:05Z pjb: or (crossproduct '( (1 2 3) () ))?
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2017-05-13T21:50:10Z blims: the first identity, the latter would give me ( (1) (2) (3) )?
2017-05-13T21:50:55Z pjb: yes for the later.
2017-05-13T21:51:09Z pjb: For the first, it's a matter of definition.
2017-05-13T21:52:41Z blims: okay, but this is just a marginal exception; i expect well formed input..
2017-05-13T21:53:10Z pjb: The problem is that the marginal is reached in the base case.
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2017-05-13T21:53:44Z pjb: So you have to be precise on your definitions, and definite and consistent on your marginal cases.
2017-05-13T21:53:48Z blims: ohh.. you made me smile..
2017-05-13T21:56:17Z blims: i saw somewhere an implementation with fold-right, but i first have to implement fold-right then for my case..
2017-05-13T21:56:53Z pjb: yes.
2017-05-13T21:57:02Z pjb: or fetch it from a library.
2017-05-13T21:57:41Z DeeEff: blims: I pasted the answer to the question of an ncartesian-product yesterday. Is this homework?
2017-05-13T22:00:42Z blims: wohoo, DeeEff! No, not really.. i needed a product-sum for a project and and implemented it.. but it's not a general one; the implementation is for my understanding only..
2017-05-13T22:01:00Z DeeEff: http://paste.call-cc.org/paste?id=c33afdb95320f77bea90b45b251e944e10a65b6f
2017-05-13T22:01:03Z DeeEff: from yesterday
2017-05-13T22:01:51Z DeeEff: fold-right isn't necessary, as you can do it with a regular fold + reverse
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2017-05-13T22:04:21Z blims: thanks very much.. i'll need some time to walk through it..
2017-05-13T22:04:24Z pjb: http://sprunge.us/iFIF
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2017-05-13T22:05:44Z DeeEff: effectively `prod` just does the cartesian product of an atom to another list (e.g. 1 onto (4 5 6) gives ((1 4) (1 5) (1 6)))
2017-05-13T22:05:50Z blims: pjb, you are kidding me..! Thank you very much..
2017-05-13T22:05:57Z DeeEff: then `cart-2` maps that across a single list
2017-05-13T22:06:01Z DeeEff: and appends the result
2017-05-13T22:06:09Z DeeEff: the cartesian product just folds over a 2 list cartesian product
2017-05-13T22:06:26Z pjb: blims: it's not mathematically correct.  {1,2}×{} = {}
2017-05-13T22:08:23Z pjb: blims: the difficulty of this function is that you have two embedded loops (map), but the result must be flattened.  This can be achieved with fold.  In CL we would use mapcaN and mapcaR instead.
2017-05-13T22:12:34Z blims: pjb: is there some deeper reason, why  {1,2}×{} != id ?
2017-05-13T22:14:14Z pjb: only a question of definition.  A×B = {(a,b)|a∈A,b∈B}
2017-05-13T22:14:40Z pjb: with B=∅, there is no b∈∅, so {(a,b)|a∈A,b∈B} = {}
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2017-05-13T22:15:37Z blims: (how do you write these symbols btw.?)
2017-05-13T22:15:58Z pjb: But you could also consider structural reasons.  ∅ is the absorbing element of x, just like 0 is for *; {∅} is the neutral element for × just like 1 is for *.
2017-05-13T22:16:06Z pjb: blims: Using C-x 8 RET in emacs.
2017-05-13T22:16:33Z DeeEff: blims: pjb my implementation gives {1, 2} x {} = {}, if it's worth anything
2017-05-13T22:16:48Z pjb: Just your basic unicode character entry on your system or editor. On macOS you can do that with the Show Emoji & Symbol menu entry in the keyboard menu.
2017-05-13T22:17:05Z DeeEff: ^ or if on Linux you can use XCompose
2017-05-13T22:17:09Z DeeEff: that's what it's there fore
2017-05-13T22:17:10Z DeeEff: for**
2017-05-13T22:17:41Z pjb: On Linux, I use my own xmodmap to give me direct access to those often-used characters :-)
2017-05-13T22:18:20Z DeeEff: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ isn't xcompose just a customizable xmodmap?
2017-05-13T22:18:32Z DeeEff: potato tomato, as they say
2017-05-13T22:18:38Z pjb: It's part of it, it's a way to do it.
2017-05-13T22:21:09Z blims: okay.. :) i cannot find xcompose..maybe i really should get a grip on emacs..
2017-05-13T22:21:45Z DeeEff: XCompose is a feature of the X window manager
2017-05-13T22:21:47Z DeeEff: not emacs
2017-05-13T22:22:17Z blims: no, i tried to find xcompose in my shell and repository..
2017-05-13T22:22:37Z DeeEff: You likely won't have a ~/.Xcompose by default
2017-05-13T22:22:40Z DeeEff: I had to enable it
2017-05-13T22:24:07Z blims: ahh, okay..found a good'ol manpage, thanks.
2017-05-13T22:24:37Z DeeEff: I think I had to add `export GTK_IM_MODULE=xim` and `export QT_IM_MODULE=xim` to my /etc/environment file, and then added my own ~/.XCompose setup after I restarted the XServer.
2017-05-13T22:25:10Z DeeEff: also I think I had to add XKBOPTIONS="compose:ralt" to /etc/default/keyboard since my keyboard layout didn't have a compose key to begin with (I set it to right alt)
2017-05-13T22:26:50Z blims: okay, i copied your answer and will try that later.
2017-05-13T22:28:21Z blims: I need to go soon; i very appreciate your help and will definitely come back (wiser hopefully).
2017-05-13T22:31:52Z blims: thanks pjb for this very basic implementation (including foldr), i will definitely enjoy studying this unpunchcardy code.. =)
2017-05-13T22:33:55Z blims: thanks DeeEff for your response, i'll compare the solutions and hopefully learn from both.
2017-05-13T22:34:06Z DeeEff: np. Good luck.
2017-05-13T22:35:17Z blims: thanks again and good days, friends..
2017-05-13T22:38:18Z pjb: Good night!
2017-05-13T22:40:20Z blims: (i was rereading your structural argument, pjb.. ;) )
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