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2017-05-11T13:28:15Z phale: hello, been looking into scheme for a few weeks now, coming from C, i have used recursion in C before but in Scheme its difficult for me to sometimes think about how the recursion process works, does anyone else had this same issue?
2017-05-11T13:30:42Z LeoNerd: Recusion in Scheme is surely exactly the same as in C?
2017-05-11T13:33:03Z phale: yeah but sometimes its hard for me to think about all the expressions being put in
2017-05-11T13:33:16Z phale: different syntax and all
2017-05-11T13:34:58Z LeoNerd: Eh; the syntax is just the surface-level spelling of the concept
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2017-05-11T13:42:17Z qu1j0t3: phale: it's great that you're trying something new.
2017-05-11T13:42:34Z qu1j0t3: phale: is there a particular text or study programme you're using?
2017-05-11T13:42:47Z phale: qu1j0t3, SICP and The Little Schemer is what im reading
2017-05-11T13:42:55Z qu1j0t3: phale: SICP has a _lot_ of recursion drills
2017-05-11T13:43:11Z qu1j0t3: phale: I'd suggest workign through its exercises (they're really essential to get value) and asking questions about them here as needed
2017-05-11T13:43:20Z phale: alright
2017-05-11T13:43:26Z qu1j0t3: if SICP is too intense, hit TLS first
2017-05-11T13:43:27Z phale: i'll give it a shot
2017-05-11T13:43:37Z phale: yeah i was reading TLS
2017-05-11T13:43:41Z phale: and it seemed a bit easier
2017-05-11T13:43:54Z qu1j0t3: SICP does kind of assume an okay-ness with the language, and it doesn't teach the language, only concepts
2017-05-11T13:44:07Z qu1j0t3: so yeah doing things in that order might work better
2017-05-11T13:44:27Z phale: concepts are fine, im looking to learn scheme along with some programming concepts
2017-05-11T13:44:35Z phale: so this book should be perfect after i read a bit of tls
2017-05-11T13:44:50Z qu1j0t3: right, but it'll get confusng fast if you're not confident in scheme
2017-05-11T13:45:03Z phale: i see
2017-05-11T13:45:08Z qu1j0t3: since it starts out with that assumption pretty much
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2017-05-11T13:45:24Z phale: well, what i want to write in scheme is a bot for a chat protocol
2017-05-11T13:45:29Z phale: not sure if scheme has net i/o facilities
2017-05-11T13:45:35Z phale: chicken scheme seems to though
2017-05-11T13:45:56Z phale: so im reading through the books first to get a good idea of scheme
2017-05-11T13:46:14Z gwatt: Networking isn't specified by any scheme standard.
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2017-05-11T15:13:39Z phale: whats the difference between let and define?
2017-05-11T15:15:26Z gwatt: bindings introduced by let are visible within the body of let.
2017-05-11T15:15:48Z gwatt: *only visible within
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2017-05-11T15:32:43Z phale: oh i see
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2017-05-11T16:59:29Z phale: hi, say i have a procedure with multiple procedure calls in it, how do i return a value from it properly ?
2017-05-11T16:59:38Z phale: heres what ive tried
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2017-05-11T16:59:48Z phale: http://codepad.org/ntyS3rHJ
2017-05-11T16:59:58Z phale: i need to return #f when (= y h) is #t
2017-05-11T17:00:04Z phale: so it stops the recursion
2017-05-11T17:00:34Z phale: the recursion does not stop though
2017-05-11T17:01:21Z gwatt: There's not a return in scheme. The last expression in a function is the return value
2017-05-11T17:01:44Z phale: so i cant stop the recursion here?
2017-05-11T17:02:06Z gwatt: You can, you just need to put the rest of the calls inside the if
2017-05-11T17:02:20Z phale: oh
2017-05-11T17:02:31Z gwatt: It would look something like (if (= y h) #f (begin ...))
2017-05-11T17:03:10Z gwatt: does image-draw-pixel modify img?
2017-05-11T17:03:23Z phale: yes
2017-05-11T17:04:22Z gwatt: cool.
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2017-05-11T17:12:20Z phale: is it possible to have multiple values return from a procedure and then pass it as 2 arguments onto another procedure?
2017-05-11T17:12:50Z phale: like (image-draw-pixel img (color/rgba (colors) 255) x y))
2017-05-11T17:14:05Z gwatt: yes, it's call-with-values
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2017-05-11T17:14:45Z gwatt: values is a procedure that can return multiple values: (values 1 2 3) => 1 2 3
2017-05-11T17:15:26Z gwatt: And then call-with-values takes two arguments: a multiple-values producing thunk and a receiver function
2017-05-11T17:15:44Z gwatt: (call-with-values (lambda () (values 1 2 3)) +) => 6
2017-05-11T17:16:41Z gwatt: There's also apply, which is similar but works with lists instead of multiple values.
2017-05-11T17:16:50Z gwatt: (apply + '(1 2 3)) => 6
2017-05-11T17:18:18Z phale: very interesting, thank you
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2017-05-11T17:37:17Z phale: gwatt, what if i only want to use the values for the last 3 arguments of a procedure?
2017-05-11T17:37:36Z phale: like (proc 1 2 3 4 5 ...)
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2017-05-11T17:54:18Z gwatt: You could wrap the value consumer: (lambda (a b c) (func first set of args a b c))
2017-05-11T17:54:56Z gwatt: but you might consider apply here. It accepts individual values, and only requires the final arg be a list.
2017-05-11T17:55:16Z gwatt: (apply + 1 2 3 '(4 5 6)) is the same as (apply + '(1 2 3 4 5 6))
2017-05-11T17:55:28Z X-Scale: rudybot: (apply + 1 2 3 '(4 5 6))
2017-05-11T17:55:36Z rudybot: X-Scale: your sandbox is ready
2017-05-11T17:55:38Z rudybot: X-Scale: ; Value: 21
2017-05-11T17:56:10Z gwatt: rudybot: ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)))
2017-05-11T17:56:11Z rudybot: gwatt: your sandbox is ready
2017-05-11T17:56:19Z X-Scale: hah
2017-05-11T17:56:22Z rudybot: gwatt: error: with-limit: out of time
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2017-05-11T18:04:22Z gwatt: rudybot: (call/cc values)
2017-05-11T18:04:22Z rudybot: gwatt: ; Value: #<continuation>
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2017-05-11T18:06:30Z gwatt: rudybot: (define (foo) 'foo)
2017-05-11T18:06:31Z rudybot: gwatt: Done.
2017-05-11T18:06:34Z gwatt: (foo)
2017-05-11T18:06:41Z gwatt: rudybot: (foo)
2017-05-11T18:06:42Z rudybot: gwatt: ; Value: 'foo
2017-05-11T18:06:57Z gwatt: (define k (call/cc values))
2017-05-11T18:07:04Z gwatt: rudybot: (define k (call/cc values))
2017-05-11T18:07:04Z rudybot: gwatt: Done.
2017-05-11T18:07:10Z gwatt: rudybot: (k)
2017-05-11T18:07:10Z rudybot: gwatt: error: define-values: result arity mismatch; <NEWLINE>  expected number of values not received <NEWLINE>   expected: 1 <NEWLINE>   received: 0 <NEWLINE>   from:  <NEWLINE>   in: definition of k <NEWLINE>   values...:
2017-05-11T18:07:17Z gwatt: rudybot: (k 2)
2017-05-11T18:07:17Z rudybot: gwatt: Done.
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