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ZZZzzz…) 2017-05-03T13:59:05Z reverse_light quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-03T14:04:48Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-05-03T14:05:09Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-03T14:08:07Z amz3 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2017-05-03T14:18:45Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-05-03T14:22:12Z oleo quit (Quit: irc client terminated!) 2017-05-03T14:44:26Z oleo joined #scheme 2017-05-03T14:55:11Z brendyn quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2017-05-03T14:58:47Z Tbone139 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-05-03T15:11:31Z p9s quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-03T15:12:04Z p9s joined #scheme 2017-05-03T15:16:34Z p9s quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-05-03T15:46:06Z alezost quit (Quit: I live in GuixSD and Emacs ) 2017-05-03T15:47:35Z cross joined #scheme 2017-05-03T15:48:30Z jao joined #scheme 2017-05-03T15:54:14Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-03T16:00:06Z ventonegro quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 25.1.1) 2017-05-03T16:10:33Z sethalves joined #scheme 2017-05-03T16:15:53Z jmd joined #scheme 2017-05-03T16:18:21Z deank joined #scheme 2017-05-03T16:20:06Z rain1 joined #scheme 2017-05-03T16:20:24Z rain1: How can you define ir-macro-transformer in terms of syntax-case? 2017-05-03T16:31:23Z jmd` joined #scheme 2017-05-03T16:39:02Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-05-03T16:41:23Z ertes joined #scheme 2017-05-03T16:42:41Z p9s joined #scheme 2017-05-03T16:44:05Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-03T16:47:05Z p9s quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-03T17:00:05Z pilne joined #scheme 2017-05-03T17:03:35Z ertes quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-03T17:05:42Z gwatt: If I'm reading ir transformers correctly, and if I've read r6rs correctly, you'll need to do something like [(literal-id rest ...) (and (identifier? #'literal-id) (eq? (syntax->datum #'literal-id 'literal-id))) ] 2017-05-03T17:05:48Z sssilver joined #scheme 2017-05-03T17:06:04Z gwatt: as the match + guard form 2017-05-03T17:11:38Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-03T17:12:06Z badkins joined #scheme 2017-05-03T17:16:29Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-05-03T17:19:35Z jmd` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-03T17:26:16Z jcowan: aeth: In R7RS-small there is as much parallelism as possible between lists, strings, and vectors. Bytevectors only had a subset, because there were questions of how they were going to be used to form other kinds of numeric vectors that aren't resolved yet. 2017-05-03T17:34:17Z jcowan: likewise, SRFI 1 and SRFI 143 attempt to provide as much similarity between lists and vectors as possible. 2017-05-03T17:34:43Z daviid joined #scheme 2017-05-03T17:34:52Z jcowan: Providing an analogous string vector library as part of R7RS-large created major technical disagreements and has been postponed (easy steps first) 2017-05-03T17:35:34Z p9s joined #scheme 2017-05-03T17:36:27Z drduck` joined #scheme 2017-05-03T17:38:16Z drduck`: Does going through SICP still hold relevancy in today's big data and deep learning world of Bayesian Statistics and Calculus that Google is so heavily endorsing? 2017-05-03T17:38:48Z wasamasa: not this shit again 2017-05-03T17:39:59Z drduck`: Was this asked before? 2017-05-03T17:40:01Z rain1: haha is that you gavino? 2017-05-03T17:40:02Z drduck`: :P 2017-05-03T17:40:05Z drduck`: No. 2017-05-03T17:40:23Z wasamasa: I have a whole database of stupendous questions about the worth of learning SICP 2017-05-03T17:40:33Z drduck`: 8) 2017-05-03T17:40:53Z drduck`: Well the world's-a-changin'. 2017-05-03T17:41:01Z wasamasa: the trolls aren't 2017-05-03T17:41:33Z drduck`: I was asking genuinely. 2017-05-03T17:42:11Z wasamasa: ok, prove it to me by answering whether this channel would be generally in favor of SICP or not 2017-05-03T17:42:40Z rain1: you can learn SICP or you can learn statistics, it's your choice 2017-05-03T17:43:04Z ecraven: rain1: why not learn both :P 2017-05-03T17:43:21Z drduck`: I am learning both. Idk why I asked. 2017-05-03T17:45:13Z drduck`: Gotta build a compiler to have something like Tensorflow so I'm guessing for sure it's still important stuff. 2017-05-03T17:45:49Z badkins joined #scheme 2017-05-03T17:45:57Z wasamasa: Should a beginner take the highly recommended Python road that MIT uses now or the highly critically acclaimed SICP road MIT used to use? 2017-05-03T17:47:11Z drduck`: I don't care about the languages. I care about the concepts and if they're in conflict in relevancy with ML, say, with what a programmer would need 5 years from now. 2017-05-03T17:47:18Z wasamasa: what will a programming neophyte learn from reading SICP? will it teach one how to approach a problem such as game programming -- how to construct and organize code bases? what does one stand to gain from it? 2017-05-03T17:47:58Z wasamasa: holy hell SICP is boring. it has to be the most boring text i've ever read in my life... and people call this an introductory text? yuck. 2017-05-03T17:48:09Z drduck`: You should put these in the announcement header message. :) 2017-05-03T17:48:15Z wasamasa: nah, not enough space 2017-05-03T17:48:16Z drduck`: Well on a web page. 2017-05-03T17:48:20Z p9s quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-05-03T17:48:21Z badkins_ joined #scheme 2017-05-03T17:48:53Z p9s joined #scheme 2017-05-03T17:49:02Z wasamasa: I highly recommend looking at the table of contents, that should answer your message 2017-05-03T17:49:06Z wasamasa: err, question 2017-05-03T17:49:40Z drduck`: I'm halfway done with the book. Yeah the concepts are relevant today. 2017-05-03T17:49:48Z drduck`: Does deep learning and ML hype make anyone else nervous? 2017-05-03T17:49:49Z ecraven: is there any programming language that is not worth learning? I'd almost argue "no" ;) [not to spend years on, but at least to study for a few days...] 2017-05-03T17:50:11Z wasamasa: drduck`: well, then I don't get why you'd ask, other than to rile up this channel 2017-05-03T17:50:11Z rain1: did you forget PHP exists 2017-05-03T17:50:19Z ecraven: there are things you can learn from PHP 2017-05-03T17:50:29Z ecraven: granted, mostly they are how *not* to do things 2017-05-03T17:50:38Z rain1: haha 2017-05-03T17:50:42Z ecraven: but still knowledge worth acquiring! 2017-05-03T17:50:46Z drduck`: wasamasa: Asked on impules when I joined the channel. Didn't think about it. 2017-05-03T17:50:55Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-05-03T17:51:52Z MrBusiness joined #scheme 2017-05-03T17:51:52Z badkins quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-05-03T17:52:09Z drduck`: Are there any scheme bindings to tensorflow out there? 2017-05-03T17:52:15Z drduck`: I can't find any so far. 2017-05-03T17:52:18Z wasamasa: I have my doubts 2017-05-03T17:52:26Z wasamasa: what is it written in, C++? 2017-05-03T17:52:43Z drduck`: Yep. 2017-05-03T17:52:50Z wasamasa: no C API? 2017-05-03T17:53:18Z drduck`: Yeah there's a C API 2017-05-03T17:53:18Z p9s quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-03T17:53:26Z wasamasa: then there might be bindings for it 2017-05-03T17:53:28Z JoshS quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-05-03T17:53:33Z drduck`: https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow/blob/r1.1/tensorflow/c/c_api.h 2017-05-03T17:53:42Z drduck`: Yeah I haven't been able to find any. Just wondered. 2017-05-03T17:53:45Z ecraven: you can easily make them, if there aren't any 2017-05-03T17:53:53Z ecraven: most Schemes have ffis 2017-05-03T17:54:02Z wasamasa: otherwise you'd have to do it the hard way 2017-05-03T17:54:18Z wasamasa: currently hopping on and off an effort to write a binding to a not too complex C++ library 2017-05-03T17:56:01Z ozzloy_ is now known as ozzloy 2017-05-03T17:56:12Z ozzloy quit (Changing host) 2017-05-03T17:56:12Z ozzloy joined #scheme 2017-05-03T17:57:17Z aeth: SICP has several problems. First, its title is a question. If it's so great, why would it do that? Second, they didn't even update it from the old-Lisp-style "SICP" to the modern, Scheme-idiomatic "sic?" in all of these years. 2017-05-03T17:58:15Z gwatt: ahahaha 2017-05-03T17:58:41Z wasamasa: that took me a while to get 2017-05-03T17:59:01Z kjak: nice :) 2017-05-03T17:59:27Z balkamos quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2017-05-03T17:59:49Z drduck`: Are there any literate programming environments out there for Scheme the way there are for Python? 2017-05-03T18:00:32Z wasamasa: well, uh, https://github.com/joeltg/ozymandias 2017-05-03T18:00:39Z alezost joined #scheme 2017-05-03T18:01:24Z drduck`: Any of you been able to get that to work? 2017-05-03T18:01:35Z drduck`: Maybe I need to update my npm. Didn't work for me. 2017-05-03T18:01:37Z wasamasa: I prefer CHICKEN 2017-05-03T18:01:41Z gwatt: arcfide has chez web 2017-05-03T18:01:53Z gwatt: https://github.com/arcfide/ChezWEB/ 2017-05-03T18:01:58Z wasamasa: and I don't really see the need in literate programming, be it the ipython or wolfram style 2017-05-03T18:02:14Z wasamasa: it just adds extra latency I wouldn't have by simply using emacs or even a terminal emulator and vim 2017-05-03T18:02:43Z balkamos joined #scheme 2017-05-03T18:02:54Z gwatt: the goal of literate programming is to tie the documentation to the source code. 2017-05-03T18:03:01Z drduck`: It's easier to collaborate, and allow others to view your code and what you were thinking in a quicker fashion. 2017-05-03T18:03:20Z wasamasa: I've yet to get collaboration going that doesn't end in disinterest or blood 2017-05-03T18:03:35Z wasamasa: even getting other people to read your code is a heroic effort 2017-05-03T18:03:37Z aeth: The problem is that the documentation quickly winds up out of date. 2017-05-03T18:04:06Z drduck`: But.. but.. cool visuals. 2017-05-03T18:04:34Z wasamasa: for that I'd need to have something plotting-like in scheme 2017-05-03T18:04:47Z wasamasa: the fractal quality of its ecosystem is a curse 2017-05-03T18:04:49Z aeth: Literate programming would make a lot of sense for some program that's clearly finished, which is rare, but not impossible. 2017-05-03T18:04:57Z wasamasa: see knuth 2017-05-03T18:04:58Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-05-03T18:05:04Z wasamasa: tex is pretty much finished 2017-05-03T18:05:48Z wasamasa: so, anyone up for a scheme implementation done the literate style? 2017-05-03T18:06:12Z wasamasa: ideally in portable r7rs 2017-05-03T18:06:51Z wasamasa: drduck`: same person: https://github.com/joeltg/mit-scheme-kernel 2017-05-03T18:07:53Z aeth: wasamasa: portable r7rs-small in a literate style is totally doable because it's small and completable. 2017-05-03T18:08:16Z aeth: Something large and always changing wouldn't work well imo (e.g. a web browser). 2017-05-03T18:08:20Z balkamos quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-05-03T18:08:48Z drduck`: wasamasa: That's amazing. 2017-05-03T18:09:04Z drduck`: wasamasa: Is there a plotting library that goes along with it? 2017-05-03T18:09:06Z wasamasa: I like how the source tree contains a JSON parser and serializer 2017-05-03T18:09:10Z wasamasa: dunno 2017-05-03T18:09:40Z balkamos joined #scheme 2017-05-03T18:09:50Z wasamasa: I've once considered doing an ipython kernel for elisp, but figured it's too much effort for that joke 2017-05-03T18:16:08Z amgarchIn9 joined #scheme 2017-05-03T18:25:08Z amgarchIn9 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2017-05-03T18:34:26Z grublet joined #scheme 2017-05-03T18:38:02Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2017-05-03T18:40:36Z kammd quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2017-05-03T18:46:55Z TheLemonMan joined #scheme 2017-05-03T18:49:08Z p9s joined #scheme 2017-05-03T18:54:06Z p9s quit (Ping timeout: 268 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