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2016-11-23T03:57:11Z justinethier:  /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER justinethier drlmutizrdzr
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2016-11-23T08:50:03Z MoronicAcid: Anyone know of a 2D diagram-drawing software that can be scripted via Scheme?
2016-11-23T08:50:54Z wasamasa: that is a pretty specific request
2016-11-23T08:51:01Z MoronicAcid: ik
2016-11-23T08:51:08Z C-Keen: look for bindings to gnuplot / octave in your favourite scheme system
2016-11-23T08:51:28Z wasamasa: oh, right
2016-11-23T08:52:10Z wasamasa: not exactly what I thought of when it comes to 2D diagrams
2016-11-23T08:52:14Z wasamasa: the field is way too broad
2016-11-23T08:52:22Z MoronicAcid: C-Keen: I was thinking something more along the lines of the Picture Language example from SICP, but for diagrams.
2016-11-23T08:52:33Z MoronicAcid: https://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/sicp/book/node36.html
2016-11-23T08:52:44Z wasamasa: http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/plot and http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/ploticus exist for CHICKEN
2016-11-23T08:54:16Z C-Keen: or write your own, my crappy example resides at: http://pestilenz.org/~ckeen/blog/posts/plotter.html
2016-11-23T08:56:03Z MoronicAcid: wasamasa: This is probably what I wanted, minus all the high-level diagram stuff, but I should be able to make this modular.
2016-11-23T08:57:45Z MoronicAcid: wasamasa: The second link is for making plots, not the kind of diagrams I am looking for.
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2016-11-23T08:57:55Z wasamasa: both are about blots :P
2016-11-23T08:58:01Z wasamasa: "diagram" is very broad
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2016-11-23T08:58:29Z MoronicAcid: wasamasa: Well libplot has the ability to do drawing.
2016-11-23T08:58:37Z wasamasa: MoronicAcid: so has cairo
2016-11-23T08:59:10Z wasamasa: MoronicAcid: if you want to do your own thing, use it instead, lots of bindings
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2016-11-23T08:59:24Z MoronicAcid: wasamasa: Cairo?
2016-11-23T08:59:33Z wasamasa: a 2d drawing library
2016-11-23T08:59:44Z wasamasa: can render to pretty much any kind of thing you want
2016-11-23T09:00:02Z wasamasa: be it png, svg, pdf, a slab of memory (for opengl), etc.
2016-11-23T09:00:08Z C-Keen: the one I have used in the blog post
2016-11-23T09:00:25Z MoronicAcid: wasamasa: Cool.
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2016-11-23T20:29:08Z ecraven: hm.. do any programming languages have a primitive ternary data type?
2016-11-23T20:29:22Z ecraven: something like #t, #f and NA/nil/..
2016-11-23T20:29:36Z ecraven: I guess Maybe is the closest most languages get
2016-11-23T20:30:33Z weinholt: my first thought is SQL with boolean columns that can be null, but it might not count as a data type
2016-11-23T20:30:57Z wasamasa: ruby has true/false/nil
2016-11-23T20:31:03Z wasamasa: python has True/False/None
2016-11-23T20:31:10Z wasamasa: clojure has true/false/nil
2016-11-23T20:32:58Z weinholt: well, python's None is not really a bool, i'm not sure about the other ones
2016-11-23T20:33:35Z qu1j0t3: weinholt: the others assuredly aren't either.
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2016-11-23T20:49:17Z ecraven: MIT/GNU Scheme has #t, #f and #!unspecific, which is what I'm using now
2016-11-23T20:49:29Z ecraven: for things like web forms, where nothing is selected, but you must select either #t or #f
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2016-11-23T21:05:15Z Riastradh: enum bool { true, false, filenotfound };
2016-11-23T21:05:35Z LeoNerd: Or the Javascript variant,  { true, false, hasOwnProperty }
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2016-11-23T21:13:59Z wasamasa: I'd prefer { true, false, this }
2016-11-23T21:16:11Z aeth: In CL, I'd use t nil :foo... in Scheme I'm not sure, possibly just #t #f 'foo
2016-11-23T21:16:38Z aeth: You'd just test for the foo first in a cond
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2016-11-23T21:18:49Z aeth: Either directly testing for foo or checking to see if it's boolean and treating all non-boolean as foo (since foo is invalid)
2016-11-23T21:19:20Z aeth: boolean? in Scheme
2016-11-23T21:19:33Z lemonpie: or you could use a keyword instead of 'foo
2016-11-23T21:19:53Z aeth: I don't think keyword is portable Scheme?
2016-11-23T21:20:08Z ecraven: aeth: not portable, but some support it
2016-11-23T21:20:29Z lemonpie: most should support it by now, usually the only difference is which way around the keyword is
2016-11-23T21:20:37Z lemonpie: ie :foo vs foo:
2016-11-23T21:21:09Z aeth: foo:? yuck
2016-11-23T21:21:26Z lemonpie: yeah, i prefer :foo myself, but c'est la vie
2016-11-23T21:21:29Z ecraven: aeth: well, it does look a bit more natural to non-CLers :p
2016-11-23T21:21:33Z aeth: The advantage of :foo is you can spot it without syntax highlighting on
2016-11-23T21:21:41Z ecraven: (though personally, I also like :foo better)
2016-11-23T21:22:04Z ecraven: kind of like smalltalk,  (add 3 to: 5)
2016-11-23T21:22:10Z aeth: Not every identifier is going to be the same length
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2016-11-23T21:22:15Z lemonpie: *some* implementations have a switch for left, right, both
2016-11-23T21:22:18Z aeth: That's where foo: would be harder to spot
2016-11-23T21:22:35Z aeth: foo: makes more sense if you're using it to implement keyword arguments in functions/procedures
2016-11-23T21:22:48Z aeth: but less since used as data like true/false/foo:
2016-11-23T21:22:53Z aeth: s/since/sense/
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2016-11-23T21:23:10Z ecraven: aeth: what would be the use of keywords-as-data in Scheme?
2016-11-23T21:23:22Z ecraven: symbols are already eq? across "packages"
2016-11-23T21:23:35Z ecraven: though I do wish there were a portable way to do keyword arguments :-/
2016-11-23T21:23:37Z aeth: although even "foo:" in keyword arguments will probably confuse people not used to what's actually going on because they might use "foo :" not knowing why that won't work
2016-11-23T21:24:32Z aeth: ecraven: in emacs, keywords are highlighted differently, and even without the highlighting they stand out a bit
2016-11-23T21:24:44Z aeth: ecraven: So even if they're not needed, they do help mark intent
2016-11-23T21:24:57Z aeth: i.e. "I am using this where I would probably use a string or enum in another language"
2016-11-23T21:24:57Z lemonpie: aeth, scheme-mode could/should probably be made to highlight either way
2016-11-23T21:25:14Z aeth: lemonpie: I was talking about keywords in general, not which way to paint their bikeshed
2016-11-23T21:25:42Z justinethier: ecraven: hey, do you have any time to kick off more benchmarks? :)
2016-11-23T21:25:52Z ecraven: justinethier: in a few hours
2016-11-23T21:25:59Z ecraven: new version out?
2016-11-23T21:26:10Z justinethier: ecraven: ok, no rush
2016-11-23T21:26:16Z justinethier: yes, cyclone 0.3.2
2016-11-23T21:26:31Z ecraven: building now
2016-11-23T21:26:41Z justinethier: ecraven: awesome, thanks so much
2016-11-23T21:27:20Z ecraven: I'll check all the other schemes too, so I'll only start the run tomorrow, I'll ping you when it's published (unless I forget :-/)
2016-11-23T21:27:40Z justinethier: hah, thanks
2016-11-23T21:27:51Z ecraven: new racket too, I think
2016-11-23T21:29:15Z justinethier: I may or may not be on tomorrow, but if there is a problem I will check back in with you
2016-11-23T21:29:22Z justinethier: hopefully the process is smoother than last time :)
2016-11-23T21:30:04Z justinethier: yeah, looks like new racket - Version 6.7 (October 2016)
2016-11-23T21:30:56Z ecraven: well, cyclone compiled fine
2016-11-23T21:31:15Z justinethier: awesome, thanks
2016-11-23T21:31:52Z ecraven: just ran browse, seems to work too. I'll start a full run tomorrow :)
2016-11-23T21:32:11Z justinethier: great
2016-11-23T21:32:22Z justinethier: yeah, the new version shaved off a decent amount of time
2016-11-23T21:33:16Z justinethier: earley finishes about 67% faster now. still too slow, but one step at a time
2016-11-23T21:34:44Z ecraven: very cool!
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