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2016-07-25T13:38:22Z slucx: someone who use tinyscheme?
2016-07-25T13:38:58Z slucx: has any documents?
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2016-07-25T16:46:32Z ecraven: lenses seem like a cool thing :) does any scheme except racket have a default lens implementation?
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2016-07-25T16:52:16Z wasamasa: not sure how it's different from generalized set!
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2016-07-25T16:56:40Z regreg: what's a good scheme for a beginner? (i'm actually old at scheme but never followed through)
2016-07-25T16:57:16Z davorb: regreg: racket or chicken
2016-07-25T17:05:01Z jcowan: Racket, definitely.  It does the most handholding in early stages, and will expand to do whatever you want.  (That said, I would never use it myself.)
2016-07-25T17:05:27Z jcowan: See http://wingolog.org/archives/2013/01/07/an-opinionated-guide-to-scheme-implementations for an explanation of why choosing a Scheme is choosing a tribe.
2016-07-25T17:05:27Z rudybot: http://teensy.info/bFcUKK1p1D
2016-07-25T17:05:29Z regreg: davorb thanks
2016-07-25T17:05:45Z regreg: davorb which would be better under windows?
2016-07-25T17:06:14Z regreg: jcowan i don't need much hand holding at programming
2016-07-25T17:06:39Z wasamasa: truth to be told, all unixy software sucks under windows
2016-07-25T17:07:28Z jcowan: Racket can be set to catch things that are technically legal but unlikely for Scheme beginners, and has an integrated IDE (most Schemes' notion of an IDE is Emacs).
2016-07-25T17:09:35Z regreg: ok
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2016-07-25T17:10:50Z davorb: regreg: i haven't tried it, but I imagine that racket would be the best under windows.
2016-07-25T17:11:04Z jcowan: That's what some people say in the comments to that post
2016-07-25T17:11:15Z wasamasa: if you really don't need hand-holding, ditch windows :P
2016-07-25T17:11:26Z davorb: and windows is working on a unixy layer. i would expect unix software not to suck so much under windows in a couple of years.
2016-07-25T17:11:59Z wasamasa: weeell...
2016-07-25T17:12:14Z wasamasa: I'd expect it to make for a fourth way of running unixy software :P
2016-07-25T17:12:32Z wasamasa: the others would be cygwin, mingw, mingw+msys
2016-07-25T17:12:46Z davorb: wasamasa: yeah, but none of those work that well in my experience
2016-07-25T17:13:05Z wasamasa: considering that vim doesn't work, I expect it to be a very basic layer
2016-07-25T17:13:14Z wasamasa: so, fs and net only
2016-07-25T17:13:29Z davorb: i know some people who use windows and use virtualbox for development. they seem to be happy with that.
2016-07-25T17:13:44Z wasamasa: yeah, that could work
2016-07-25T17:13:45Z davorb: wasamasa: idk. i've seen them run window managers.
2016-07-25T17:14:33Z wasamasa: that is in the realm of cygwin, no?
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2016-07-25T17:17:27Z davorb: i wouldn't be surprised if it is, but it's still pretty impressive
2016-07-25T17:18:10Z davorb: i'm going to try installing freebsd on a macbook pro later tonight. copying the dvd to a usb drive is taking forever, so i'm going to go out for a run while i wait. wish me luck!
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2016-07-25T17:38:14Z jcowan: I'm running Ubuntu for Windows on my home box.  Modulo kernel bugs, it really is just Ubuntu.  Chicken builds on it fine with "make OS=linux"
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2016-07-25T18:14:36Z ecraven: wasamasa: functional update instead of mutation?
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2016-07-25T18:19:28Z wasamasa: ecraven: uh, parameters?
2016-07-25T18:19:30Z ecraven: does anyone here know whether it's possible to load a package set in MIT/GNU Scheme without compiling it?
2016-07-25T18:19:42Z wasamasa: otherwise I have no idea what that would mean
2016-07-25T18:19:55Z ecraven: wasamasa: as far as I understand it, lenses are about functional update, as opposed to generalised set!
2016-07-25T18:20:01Z wasamasa: aha
2016-07-25T18:20:14Z ecraven: refering to your answer from earlier :) sorry, I've been afk
2016-07-25T18:22:45Z davorb: ecraven: yeah, that's my understanding as well. it's basically a form of getters/setters afaik.
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2016-07-25T18:24:33Z wasamasa: I'm not sure what a functional update would be, other than what parameters in a handful of schemes do
2016-07-25T18:25:00Z wasamasa: combining that with possibly nested access forms like in setf or generalized set! might be cool
2016-07-25T18:28:23Z ecraven: functional update as in: do not modify the original, instead copy it and return the modified copy
2016-07-25T18:28:51Z ecraven: (lens-set! car-lens '(1 . 2) 3) -> '(3 . 2) [a new cons, the old one is unmodified]
2016-07-25T18:29:16Z wasamasa: hmk
2016-07-25T18:29:26Z wasamasa: reminds me a bit of all map operations in clojure
2016-07-25T18:29:36Z wasamasa: be it assoc, dissoc, update, etc.
2016-07-25T18:29:55Z ecraven: I find it a very interesting concept, the racket documentation is nice to read
2016-07-25T18:31:12Z pjb: (define (set-car k a) (cons a (cdr k)))  (set-car '(1 . 2) 3) --> (3 . 2)
2016-07-25T18:31:35Z ecraven: pjb: yea, but I'm actually interested in automatically defining lenses for record types
2016-07-25T18:31:47Z pjb: ok
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