2014-11-17T00:00:01Z offby1: rudybot: (map (integer-transformation-appearing-as-randomizing 10 16 7 9) '(10 11 12 13 14 15 16))
2014-11-17T00:00:01Z rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: '(10 10 10 10 10 10 10)
2014-11-17T00:00:05Z offby1: BW^-: you LIE
2014-11-17T00:00:21Z offby1: or, rather, you tell the truth
2014-11-17T00:00:24Z offby1: one or the other
2014-11-17T00:00:51Z BW^-: heh
2014-11-17T00:01:43Z BW^-: MichaelRaskin,fizzie: do you have any suggestion about how alter the algorithm so that |random-seed:prime| can be > |numbers-in-interval| ?
2014-11-17T00:01:57Z BW^-: MichaelRaskin,fizzie: I mean, |numbers-in-interval| is frequently not so big (say 10^6), while the world is full of big prime numbers :)
2014-11-17T00:02:58Z BW^-: rudybot: (map (integer-transformation-appearing-as-randomizing 0 5 7 9) '(0 1 2 3 4 5))
2014-11-17T00:02:59Z rudybot: BW^-: your sandbox is ready
2014-11-17T00:02:59Z rudybot: BW^-: error: integer-transformation-appearing-as-randomizing: undefined; <NEWLINE>  cannot reference an identifier before its definition <NEWLINE>   in module: 'program
2014-11-17T00:03:07Z BW^-: rudybot: (define (integer-transformation-appearing-as-randomizing interval-start interval-end random-seed:prime random-seed:integer) (let* ((numbers-in-interval (- interval-end interval-start -1))) (lambda (integer-value-to-transform) (+ interval-start (modulo (* random-seed:prime (+ integer-value-to-transform random-seed:integer)) numbers-in-interval)))))
2014-11-17T00:03:07Z rudybot: BW^-: Done.
2014-11-17T00:03:17Z BW^-: rudybot: (map (integer-transformation-appearing-as-randomizing 0 5 7 9) '(0 1 2 3 4 5))
2014-11-17T00:03:18Z rudybot: BW^-: ; Value: '(3 4 5 0 1 2)
2014-11-17T00:03:23Z BW^-: rudybot: (map (integer-transformation-appearing-as-randomizing 0 6 7 9) '(0 1 2 3 4 5 6))
2014-11-17T00:03:23Z rudybot: BW^-: ; Value: '(0 0 0 0 0 0 0)
2014-11-17T00:03:31Z BW^-: rudybot: (map (integer-transformation-appearing-as-randomizing 0 7 7 9) '(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7))
2014-11-17T00:03:32Z rudybot: BW^-: ; Value: '(7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0)
2014-11-17T00:04:13Z BW^-: rudybot: (map (integer-transformation-appearing-as-randomizing 0 5 2 9) '(0 1 2 3 4 5))
2014-11-17T00:04:13Z rudybot: BW^-: ; Value: '(0 2 4 0 2 4)
2014-11-17T00:04:28Z BW^-: rudybot: (map (integer-transformation-appearing-as-randomizing 0 5 1 9) '(0 1 2 3 4 5))
2014-11-17T00:04:28Z rudybot: BW^-: ; Value: '(3 4 5 0 1 2)
2014-11-17T00:05:02Z BW^-: ouch, with 2 as |random-seed:prime| it didn't even transform to all integer sin the interval
2014-11-17T00:05:11Z fizzie: Yes, because 2 is not coprime with 6.
2014-11-17T00:05:18Z BW^-: ah
2014-11-17T00:05:40Z BW^-: fizzie: so |random-seed:prime| must be a *coprime* with |numbers-in-interval| *always*?
2014-11-17T00:06:06Z BW^-: fizzie: so the issue here was not whether |random-seed:prime| was < = > |numbers-in-interval|, but whether it was a coprime with it or not?
2014-11-17T00:07:04Z BW^-: ..and the prime must also be > 1 of course
2014-11-17T00:07:08Z fizzie: Well, it's both. If p > l, then it's p mod l that needs to be coprime with l, since that's effectively the value of p that's relevant.
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2014-11-17T00:07:50Z BW^-: fizzie: wait, so then, what is a complete definition of the requirement of what value |random-seed:prime| must be?
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2014-11-17T00:09:45Z fizzie: Regarding only the "generates all numbers" criterion, you could go with "p > 0, p < l, p is coprime to l". Or alternatively, if you prefer, "p > 0, p mod l is coprime to l". You might have to add more criteria for the "looks random" aspect.
2014-11-17T00:10:23Z BW^-: mhm
2014-11-17T00:10:46Z fizzie: If you pick a prime p < l, then it's coprime with l iff p doesn't divide l. (Because the only >1 divisor of p is p.)
2014-11-17T00:10:58Z BW^-: fizzie: in the latter cae, p must be > 1 anyhow, right? i mean, beause for p mod l to be coprime with l , then p would always be > 1 anyhow right?
2014-11-17T00:12:46Z BW^-: fizzie: ah understood your definition here.
2014-11-17T00:13:21Z BW^-: fizzie: do you have any coprime checker and coprime generator function? :D
2014-11-17T00:13:30Z BW^-: (is-coprime-with? 2 7) => #f
2014-11-17T00:14:22Z BW^-: (generate-coprime-to to-what-integer max-int) e.g. (generate-coprime-to 7 10000) => 1234 or sth
2014-11-17T00:15:23Z fizzie: I don't, but as mentioned, if you stick to primes smaller than l, the coprime check is just whether p divides l.
2014-11-17T00:16:02Z BW^-: fizzie: aha, as in (not (integer? (/ l p))) => is-coprime?
2014-11-17T00:17:53Z fizzie: Possibly written as (not (zero? (modulo l p))).
2014-11-17T00:18:24Z BW^-: mhm
2014-11-17T00:18:38Z fizzie: (The reasoning being that a prime like 7 is coprime with everything else except 7, 14, 21, 28, ...)
2014-11-17T00:19:26Z BW^-: mhm
2014-11-17T00:20:08Z BW^-: fizzie: ok very well, then we have nailed what |random-seed:prime| needs to be presuming it's < |numbers-in-interval|.
2014-11-17T00:20:43Z BW^-: fizzie: and the only thing to nail it for  |random-seed:prime|:s > |numbers-in-interval| would be a coprime checker / generator. :)
2014-11-17T00:21:12Z BW^-: fizzie: ok thanks for clarifying :))
2014-11-17T00:21:38Z BW^-: how cool that this algorithm actually existed, i was intuitively sure it would last years, but had no clue exactly how it would look, at all
2014-11-17T00:24:08Z fizzie: I believe it's been used for "dissolve"-style graphics effects. Though I'm sure there are alternatives.
2014-11-17T00:24:34Z BW^-: mhm.
2014-11-17T00:25:51Z fizzie: And it's quite possible you can say something general about p mod l and l even for a prime p > l, too, I'm just not vouching on that.
2014-11-17T00:27:16Z BW^-: fizzie: the larger the prime, the better randomization, right?
2014-11-17T00:27:49Z fizzie: Not really, since what matters is the size of p mod l.
2014-11-17T00:28:44Z BW^-: fizzle: you mean l mod p ?
2014-11-17T00:29:05Z BW^-: fizzle: in my test case here, l mod p is 9 - how does this affect the quality of randomization?
2014-11-17T00:29:06Z fizzie: No matter how big your p is, if p = 1 (mod l) you get ..., 1, 2, 3, ... and if p = l-1 (mod l) you get ..., 3, 2, 1, ...
2014-11-17T00:29:46Z BW^-: fizzie: you mean, if l mod p = 1 or -1 then randomization is crap
2014-11-17T00:30:29Z fizzie: Yes. And in general, you get the exact same sequence if you replace p with (p mod l).
2014-11-17T00:31:04Z BW^-: aha
2014-11-17T00:31:25Z BW^-: fizzie: so the complete definition for if a particular p is a "good" coprime to l,  is to check that l mod p is *neither* of -1 , 0 and 1 .
2014-11-17T00:31:41Z BW^-: if it satisfies that criteria, then it's a good coprime
2014-11-17T00:31:57Z BW^-: fizzie: correct?
2014-11-17T00:32:49Z fizzie: p mod l, not l mod p. And "good" is subjective. You might not like 2 or -2 either. The value is directly the gap between two consecutive numbers.
2014-11-17T00:34:31Z fizzie: For p = 2 (mod l), you'll get ..., 1, 3, 5, 7, ..., 2, 4, 6, 8, ... which is certainly *better*, but whether it's *good* is debatable.
2014-11-17T00:34:32Z BW^-: fizzie: wait, we already said that p must be < l already, so why do you bother about p mod l anyhow now?
2014-11-17T00:35:21Z fizzie: Just for generality. If you stick to p < l, you can drop the "mod l" part from all I've said lately.
2014-11-17T00:36:22Z BW^-: mhm
2014-11-17T00:36:37Z BW^-: fizzie: for the "divisble" part of the coprime check though, it's still l mod p right?
2014-11-17T00:36:44Z BW^-: i.e. (not (zero? (modulo l p)))
2014-11-17T00:37:02Z fizzie: Right.
2014-11-17T00:37:46Z BW^-: (y)
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2014-11-17T00:44:45Z BW^-: fizzie,MichaelRaskin: ok thanks a lot for sharing this insight :) so the point of complete perfection to this "implementation" would be a coprime generator for p:s > l , anyhow now we talked p:s < l and this was intellectual excercise so perfect now
2014-11-17T00:44:48Z BW^-: thanks again. :)
2014-11-17T00:48:08Z fizzie: I wouldn't be surprised if there were "better" PRNGs that are you can construct to give a particular cycle, for the record.
2014-11-17T00:50:04Z fizzie: (And depending on context, if you're actually going to generate the full sequence, rounding up to next power of two and then just skipping the overly large values might be feasible. The "dissolve" algorithm in Graphics Gems does that for a LFSR.)
2014-11-17T00:50:14Z fizzie: (I see this was kind of already discussed way up there.)
2014-11-17T00:50:38Z BW^-: mhm
2014-11-17T00:50:54Z BW^-: ah right, |pseudorandom-integer-transformation| is a better name for this alg
2014-11-17T00:53:58Z BW^-: fizzie: right, this one is nice though because it requires no state (or compensation for state using a reiterative loop that could need to iterate over the whole interval of input values)
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2014-11-17T01:04:29Z BW^-: gtg
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2014-11-17T01:17:33Z Turaiel: I've got a quick question regarding differences between Racket and R5RS with cdr. I'm trying to take the cdr of a list, but DrRacket says that it's expecting an mpair instead of '(). Any idea why this is?
2014-11-17T01:22:01Z Riastradh: Neither one allows CDR of the empty list.
2014-11-17T01:24:44Z Turaiel: I was reading something on Stack Overflow about getting the last element of a list in scheme. It was suggested to recurse through the list and check for cdr returning null
2014-11-17T01:25:04Z Riastradh: Returning, sure -- but you can't pass it null.
2014-11-17T01:25:55Z Turaiel: Oh, I see, right
2014-11-17T01:26:02Z Turaiel: It returns null if you pass it a one element list
2014-11-17T01:26:22Z Riastradh: Yes.
2014-11-17T01:26:26Z Turaiel: I must have an issue with my logic then
2014-11-17T01:32:13Z Turaiel: Yep! I screwed up my cond statement. Thanks!
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2014-11-17T02:29:29Z jenia: hello. how can I load a file into the REPL? I'm using racket
2014-11-17T02:29:51Z jenia: ah no. im using guile
2014-11-17T02:30:22Z adu: hey
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2014-11-17T02:31:14Z adu: what do you mean load file?
2014-11-17T02:31:30Z adu: a scheme file? a csv file? a text file?
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2014-11-17T02:34:12Z jenia: adu, if I save  a session as a text file, can I reload it later to continue from the point where I left off?
2014-11-17T02:34:31Z adu: (load)
2014-11-17T02:37:16Z jenia: adu, thanks. just one more question: how do I correctly save a session? When I saved the buffer literally, the file line was `GNU Guile 2.0.11`. You can imagine that scheme didnt like that ;)
2014-11-17T02:37:34Z jenia: the first line in the file was*
2014-11-17T02:38:10Z adu: well
2014-11-17T02:38:18Z adu: I don't know what you mean by "session"
2014-11-17T02:38:50Z jenia: adu, the repl session
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2014-11-17T02:39:20Z adu: but there's a unix tool that might help
2014-11-17T02:39:21Z adu: http://linux.die.net/man/1/script
2014-11-17T02:39:43Z adu: jenia: I don't know of any scheme that records the repl
2014-11-17T02:42:56Z adu: what I would recommend is a 2-window solution, one window to edit your script, and one window to run it
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2014-11-17T02:46:52Z ijp: there was an optional procedure for this in r5rs called transcript-on
2014-11-17T02:47:39Z ijp: I don't even know if guile has it
2014-11-17T02:47:45Z offby1: flame-on
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2014-11-17T03:40:41Z Turaiel: A couple more questions: where can I find a decent Scheme reference? Secondly, running (eval '(display "test")) says that there are not enough arguments. Is there something I am missing?
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2014-11-17T03:49:13Z serhart: Turaiel: which scheme?
2014-11-17T03:52:04Z cjh`: Turaiel: as for a reference I usually use the rnrs documents, http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/ftpdir/scheme-reports/r5rs.ps and http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/raw-attachment/wiki/WikiStart/r7rs.pdf linked to from bottom of http://scheme-reports.org/
2014-11-17T03:55:55Z Turaiel: R5RS, serhart
2014-11-17T03:55:59Z Turaiel: Sorry, I ran off for a sec
2014-11-17T03:57:28Z Turaiel: It's also changing it to meval
2014-11-17T03:57:53Z cjh`: Turaiel: which scheme implementation is giving you that error?
2014-11-17T03:58:01Z serhart: i know guile's eval expects a module as a second param
2014-11-17T03:58:15Z Turaiel: The R5RS that's part of DrRacket
2014-11-17T04:00:37Z Turaiel: I'd use apply, but unfortunately using car on my expression list quotes the expression
2014-11-17T04:01:02Z Turaiel: eval is probably contextually better
2014-11-17T04:01:59Z serhart: http://docs.racket-lang.org/r5rs/r5rs-std/r5rs-Z-H-9.html?q=eval#%25_idx_600
2014-11-17T04:02:00Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/ld5hwek
2014-11-17T04:02:05Z serhart: looks like it wants an environment
2014-11-17T04:02:09Z cjh`: (eval '(display "test") (scheme-report-environment 5)) # works in r5rs drracket
2014-11-17T04:02:14Z cjh`: Turaiel: ^^
2014-11-17T04:02:30Z cjh`: Turaiel: see page 35 of http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/ftpdir/scheme-reports/r5rs.ps
2014-11-17T04:03:28Z Turaiel: I actually cannot view PostScript files
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2014-11-17T04:22:22Z Turaiel: That works, thanks. Can you explain what that namespace is?
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2014-11-17T04:51:08Z MichaelRaskin: BW^-: In your example, prime turned out to be _equal_ to the count of numbers
2014-11-17T04:51:13Z MichaelRaskin: And that _is_ a problem
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2014-11-17T19:56:55Z hypermagic: btw guys, if somebody is interested what is not being mass produced : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMULET_microprocessor   this is an asynchronous cpu that consumes microwatts in idle.
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2014-11-17T20:31:51Z xyh:   I think the interface of call/cc is designed that way, only because the designer is too ashamed to reveal a global variable (global variable) which is named cc.  then (call/cc f) == (f cc) or (f (cc))
2014-11-17T20:32:28Z xyh: there are a family of functions named as "call-with-***" ...
2014-11-17T20:32:47Z vanila: xyh ,yeah, good point
2014-11-17T20:33:00Z vanila: call/cc has low quality compared to SHIFT/RESET
2014-11-17T20:33:58Z ijp: (cc) is a much less useful interface than you'd think
2014-11-17T20:34:06Z xyh: ijp: why?
2014-11-17T20:34:38Z xyh: ijp: the order of eval ?
2014-11-17T20:35:29Z ijp: suppose you do (let ((foo (cc))) blah), then blah basically always needs conditional behaviour depending on whether or not foo is a continuation
2014-11-17T20:36:29Z ijp: in a weird way, you never actually get the current continuation that way, because it stops being the continuation once you get it
2014-11-17T20:37:17Z ijp: anyway, play around with it a while, you'll see what I mean
2014-11-17T20:38:11Z ijp: but the call-with-foo design isn't about global variables, but about introducing new binding forms
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2014-11-17T20:39:08Z ijp: it doesn't really matter whether you have call/cc or let/cc, but the first one feels "purer" because it is a function rather than a macro
2014-11-17T20:39:48Z LeoNerd: Oooh... let/cc?
2014-11-17T20:40:13Z ijp: (let/cc k b) == (call/cc (lambda (k) b))
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2014-11-17T20:41:54Z turbofail: that said all call/cc is good for in general is for making puzzle-code
2014-11-17T20:42:20Z turbofail: not that there's anything wrong with puzzles
2014-11-17T20:42:35Z vanila: its hard to find use
2014-11-17T20:43:07Z turbofail: there is some value in making your brain hurt, as long as it's not used in production code
2014-11-17T20:44:06Z ijp: production code has plenty of ways of making your brain hurt anyway
2014-11-17T20:44:42Z xyh: ijp: (let ((foo (cc)))   <blah>)    ==  ((lambda (foo) <blah>)   (cc))  ==  (call/cc  (lambda (foo) <blah>))
2014-11-17T20:44:59Z turbofail: sure.  the only thing worse than using call/cc is watching somebody effectively emulate it with a pile of switch statements and state variables
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2014-11-17T20:46:37Z turbofail: (something i actually sort of encountered btw)
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2014-11-17T20:46:58Z ijp: xyh: I am well aware of that
2014-11-17T20:47:34Z turbofail: that equivalence isn't quite right
2014-11-17T20:47:35Z ijp: actually that last one doesn't look riht
2014-11-17T20:47:55Z ijp: ((lambda (foo) <blah>)  (cc)) == ((lambda (foo) <blah>)  (call/cc (lambda (x) x)))
2014-11-17T20:48:11Z xyh: sorry
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2014-11-17T20:48:22Z ijp double checks his call/cc free theorem
2014-11-17T20:48:46Z turbofail: yeah so any call to foo within <blah> will then reexecute all of blah with foo bound to something else
2014-11-17T20:49:00Z turbofail: which is the problem that ijp was getting at
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2014-11-17T20:50:22Z turbofail: basically, you need better limits on where the continuation is captured to make it actually sensible to use
2014-11-17T20:50:24Z ijp: (f (call/cc g)) = (call/cc (lambda (k) (f (g (compose k f))))) is the call/cc free theorem
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2014-11-17T20:52:10Z ijp: which gives (call/cc (lambda (k) (let ((foo (lambda (x) (k (let ((foo x)) <blah>))))) <blah>))) unless I messed something up
2014-11-17T20:52:26Z ijp: (which is likely)
2014-11-17T20:52:38Z xyh: see above, my imaginary axiom is (call/cc f) == (f (cc)) , so ((lambda (foo) <blah>)  (cc)) == (call/cc (lambda (foo) <blah>)) == ((lambda (foo) <blah>)  (lambda (x) x))
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2014-11-17T20:53:43Z xyh: sorry, not the 2nd == ...
2014-11-17T20:53:47Z ijp: you can't really have that equivalance
2014-11-17T20:53:53Z turbofail: such a thing could only ever work if (cc) worked in a really weird manner
2014-11-17T20:54:15Z ijp: because (cc) would need to somehow remove the "call to f" from its continuation
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2014-11-17T20:55:57Z xyh: (call/cc f) == (f (cc)) so, (cc) can never be uesd alone, it can only be arg of a function.
2014-11-17T20:56:21Z vanila: @xyh did you know about CPS semantics?
2014-11-17T20:56:44Z ijp: in general, unless you wanted to provide other operators that acted on your representation of continuations (removing "frames", etc) I don't think there is any value in immediately returning a current continuation as a function
2014-11-17T20:56:53Z xyh: vanila: I tkink I do, (but maybe I am wrong
2014-11-17T20:57:08Z vanila: http://lpaste.net/114458
2014-11-17T20:57:12Z vanila: example
2014-11-17T20:57:16Z ijp: but try implementing it
2014-11-17T20:57:34Z vanila: line 36 is CPS semantics for call-wth-curent-continuations
2014-11-17T20:57:51Z ijp: vanila: if that is supposed to be unlambda, make sure you handle "d" properly from the beginning
2014-11-17T20:58:04Z turbofail: well (cc) certainly couldn't be callable like a normal scheme procedure
2014-11-17T20:58:14Z turbofail: it'd probably require compiler support to detect a call to it and then do weird shit
2014-11-17T20:58:25Z xyh: turbofail: call/cc is not normal too
2014-11-17T20:58:33Z vanila: call/cc is normal!
2014-11-17T20:58:33Z xyh: is it ?
2014-11-17T20:58:34Z ijp: xyh: false
2014-11-17T20:58:37Z xyh: ok!
2014-11-17T20:58:40Z xyh: my bad
2014-11-17T20:58:41Z vanila:                      (lambda (cont)
2014-11-17T20:58:41Z vanila:                        (cont (lambda (k f) (f k (lambda (k0 v) (k v))))))))
2014-11-17T20:58:41Z turbofail: call/cc is a normal procedure
2014-11-17T20:58:42Z vanila: that's all
2014-11-17T20:58:43Z ijp: turbofail: well, the calling restriction immediately suggests it can't be a regular function, it would need a delimiter
2014-11-17T20:58:52Z vanila: in CPS semantics
2014-11-17T20:59:07Z turbofail: you can't implement calll/cc of course, but it can be called like a normal procedure
2014-11-17T20:59:52Z ijp: vanila: nvm, it doesn't handle "d"
2014-11-17T21:04:18Z Riastradh: Python quiz!  x is a list.  n is a nonnegative integer at most the length of x.  What does del x[-n:] do?
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2014-11-17T21:04:44Z turbofail: do we get to call a lifeline?
2014-11-17T21:05:13Z turbofail: slice semantics were one of those things i could never remember when i used python
2014-11-17T21:05:21Z MichaelRaskin: It should delete last n elements. Let me guess, it deletes first…n-th-to-last?
2014-11-17T21:05:31Z ijp: Riastradh: well, I want to say "deletes the last n", but if that was the case, you won't have asked, so I'm guessing, it deletes less than that
2014-11-17T21:05:45Z taylanub: I think it deletes all?
2014-11-17T21:05:48Z Riastradh: You folks are close.  It sometimes deletes the last n elements of x.
2014-11-17T21:05:54Z Riastradh: But not always!
2014-11-17T21:05:58Z taylanub: wow
2014-11-17T21:06:07Z xyh: I haven't write scheme code for very long :P really miss it.  if (cc) will always be use with "let" then it just is "letcc", and "letcc" is a better interface rigth ?   maybe (call/cc f) == (f (cc)) can help to explain things when you teach someone about call/cc.
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2014-11-17T21:06:33Z Riastradh: xyh: (f (cc)) is practically never actually what you want.
2014-11-17T21:06:34Z taylanub: (oh, I thought of n = length(x) for whatever reason)
2014-11-17T21:06:49Z Riastradh: taylanub: 0 <= n <= len(x)
2014-11-17T21:07:16Z taylanub: Riastradh: ITYM 0 < n ...?
2014-11-17T21:07:27Z Riastradh: No, I mean 0 <= n <= len(x).
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2014-11-17T21:07:39Z taylanub: oh sorry, "nonnegative"  (brain doesn't want to work today)
2014-11-17T21:07:50Z taylanub: well for 0 I'd guess it empties it?
2014-11-17T21:08:06Z ijp: ah, there we go
2014-11-17T21:08:30Z ijp: the problem will be with -len(x)
2014-11-17T21:08:42Z taylanub: or raises out-of-bounds because -0 would be the element after -1 i.e. the last :P
2014-11-17T21:08:43Z ijp: which...errors?
2014-11-17T21:08:53Z xyh: vanila: I am watching the video "90-min-scc" (again) , I see you have a version of 90-min-scc in your repo, have you modified some of it to make it works ??
2014-11-17T21:09:00Z taylanub: ijp: isn't -len(x) the first element?
2014-11-17T21:09:01Z Riastradh: n = len(x) is fine.
2014-11-17T21:09:03Z ijp: taylanub: -0 = 0, so it deletes the whole length
2014-11-17T21:09:21Z Riastradh: For n = 0, taylanub is correct that it actually empties the entire list instead of deleting zero elements from it.
2014-11-17T21:09:35Z vanila: xyh, i think its just an archve - not sure the code will work, but can be read
2014-11-17T21:09:48Z vanila: xyh, the video is not very good - but the slides are - do you have the slides?
2014-11-17T21:09:57Z ijp: Riastradh: hmm, yeah, mental offby1 error
2014-11-17T21:10:03Z xyh: vanila: yes I have. and the code words.
2014-11-17T21:10:08Z vanila: ok :)
2014-11-17T21:10:28Z taylanub: ijp: you highlighted offby1 :P
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2014-11-17T21:17:52Z xyh: vanila: why you call this lambda "CPS semantics" ? do you mean "denotational-semantics" ? :: (lambda (cont) (cont (lambda (k f) (f k (lambda (k0 v) (k v))))))
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2014-11-17T21:18:20Z xyh: or it is just the function which implement CPS ?
2014-11-17T21:19:12Z vanila: xyh, the normal semantics is identity => (lambda (i) i)
2014-11-17T21:19:23Z vanila: but CPS semantics is identity => (lambda (k i) (k i))
2014-11-17T21:19:32Z vanila: every lambda takes a continuation and passes its results into it
2014-11-17T21:20:01Z vanila: another exmape,  k ==> (lambda (x) (lambda (y) x))  but CPS semantics k ==> (lambda (k x) (k (lambda (c y) (c x))))
2014-11-17T21:20:22Z vanila: call-with-current-continuation doesn't have semantics in terms of pure lambda calculus
2014-11-17T21:20:26Z vanila: but it does have CPS semantics
2014-11-17T21:20:42Z vanila: so you can translate lambda calculus + CWCC into pure lambda calculus using CPS semantics
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2014-11-17T21:22:40Z xyh: vanila: a semantics is a homomorphic ?
2014-11-17T21:23:05Z vanila: i dont really know
2014-11-17T21:23:14Z vanila: i guess so
2014-11-17T21:23:53Z xyh: maybe. in the sense of "math homomorphic between two math structure".
2014-11-17T21:25:19Z xyh likes old Bourbaki terms
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2014-11-17T21:26:40Z ijp: a semantics is "just" a function that gives the "meaning" of a form
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2014-11-17T21:27:16Z ijp: i.e. an interpreter
2014-11-17T21:28:06Z xyh: ijp: maybe I just have my way of understanding things :P (some times wrong)
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2014-11-17T21:33:22Z xyh: vanila: if every lambda takes that argument, then that argument should be used as a global variable right ?   haskell do not allowed mutable global variable, so when haskell really needs a global variable it pass it through function's local arguments right ?
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2014-11-17T21:33:52Z vanila: xyh, there' sno global variables in this
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2014-11-17T21:34:15Z vanila: just parameters
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2014-11-17T21:56:10Z offby1: WHO dare take my name in vain?!
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2014-11-17T21:57:13Z Riastradh: Someone who was trying to take the next guy's name in vain, but missed, because of a slip-up with Python arrays.
2014-11-17T21:57:38Z stamourv: ijp: <pedant> Only operational semantics really are like interpreters. Denotational semantics are more like compilers. </pedant>
2014-11-17T21:58:46Z xyh: orz
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2014-11-17T23:27:20Z jenia: hello. can someone please tell me what wrong with this procedure:
2014-11-17T23:27:21Z jenia: (define member?
2014-11-17T23:27:22Z jenia:   (lambda (l m)
2014-11-17T23:27:22Z jenia:     (cond
2014-11-17T23:27:22Z jenia:      ((null? (cdr l)) #f)
2014-11-17T23:27:22Z jenia:      ((eq? (car l) m) #t)
2014-11-17T23:27:22Z jenia:      (else (member? (cdr l) m)))))
2014-11-17T23:27:34Z jenia: it gives me an error
2014-11-17T23:27:53Z vanila: you should just check null? l
2014-11-17T23:28:11Z vanila: other than that it's good
2014-11-17T23:28:30Z jenia: ahh okay. thanks a lot
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