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2014-09-29T00:34:30Z offby1: nehaljwani: assoc is indeed in racket.  What makes you think it isn't?
2014-09-29T00:34:55Z offby1: rudybot: (assoc 'a ' ((a . "aah") (b . "bumble")))
2014-09-29T00:34:56Z rudybot: *offby1: your sandbox is ready
2014-09-29T00:34:56Z rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: '(a . "aah")
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2014-09-29T05:30:02Z nehaljwani: offby1, http://lpaste.net/111787 doesn't work for t1=lambda(x)(y) t2=lambda(y)(y) .. it returns true :'(
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2014-09-29T09:44:44Z lrs: http://pastebin.com/YGNszfUS I need to rewrite this code so that the dividend, when you use a interval that is across 0  works
2014-09-29T09:44:45Z lrs: Any ideas
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2014-09-29T10:10:33Z lrs: Anyone?
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2014-09-29T10:32:57Z pjb: lrs: don't divide by zero.
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2014-09-29T10:40:09Z pjb: lrs: alternatively, since you're working on intervals, you can extend ℝ⋆ with ±∞ and ±0, and extend / with  1/+0 = +∞, -1/+0 = -∞, 1/-0 = -∞, -1/-0 = +∞.  1/+∞ = +0, -1/+∞ = -0, 1/-∞ = -0, -1/-∞ = +0.
2014-09-29T10:41:49Z lrs: pjb : I found code snippet to solve it ^^
2014-09-29T10:41:53Z lrs: Heres the solution
2014-09-29T10:42:15Z lrs: http://pastebin.com/4Era9sYT
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2014-09-29T13:00:10Z nehaljwani: vanila, http://lpaste.net/111787 doesn't work for t1=lambda(x)(y) t2=lambda(y)(y) .. it returns true :'(
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2014-09-29T13:00:56Z vanila: oh goshh im sorry
2014-09-29T13:01:16Z vanila: so we have to distinguish bound and free variables
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2014-09-29T13:08:13Z nehaljwani: vanila, I lost your replies
2014-09-29T13:08:31Z vanila: <vanila> oh goshh im sorry
2014-09-29T13:08:31Z vanila: <vanila> so we have to distinguish bound and free variables
2014-09-29T13:08:46Z nehaljwani: Yes. Distinguish.
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2014-09-29T13:13:00Z vanila: http://lpaste.net/111787
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2014-09-29T13:26:07Z nehaljwani: vanila, line 17    (cons t2 bound) is this correct?
2014-09-29T13:26:34Z vanila: no
2014-09-29T13:26:35Z nehaljwani: is bound a list here?
2014-09-29T13:26:42Z vanila: it should be the variable, not t2
2014-09-29T13:26:54Z nehaljwani: okay
2014-09-29T13:26:58Z vanila: (cons (lambda-variable t2) bound)
2014-09-29T13:27:03Z vanila: Ive added
2014-09-29T13:27:05Z nehaljwani: wait.. variable in formal or body?
2014-09-29T13:27:17Z vanila: For t1=lambda(x)(y) t2=lambda(y)(y)
2014-09-29T13:27:18Z vanila: we get
2014-09-29T13:27:25Z vanila: env = (x y),  bound = (y)
2014-09-29T13:27:28Z vanila: sorry
2014-09-29T13:27:33Z vanila: env = ((x . y)),  bound = (y)
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2014-09-29T13:34:28Z nehaljwani: vanila, shouldn't it be (not (member t2 bound)) ?
2014-09-29T13:35:12Z vanila: http://lpaste.net/111787
2014-09-29T13:35:27Z vanila: I think that is needed yeah,
2014-09-29T13:36:14Z nehaljwani: I am confused now :P
2014-09-29T13:36:37Z vanila: we should come up with a better way to write the function, so we know it's correct
2014-09-29T13:37:06Z nehaljwani: is that latest annotation correct?
2014-09-29T13:37:11Z vanila: I think so
2014-09-29T13:37:16Z vanila: but I thought the previous two were correct as well
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2014-09-29T13:38:54Z vanila: A good way might be to convert both to de brujn form
2014-09-29T13:38:58Z vanila: then test EQUAL?
2014-09-29T13:39:12Z nehaljwani: What is brujn form?
2014-09-29T13:39:28Z vanila: (define (alpha-equal t1 t2) (equal? (alpha->de-bruijn t1) (alpha->de-bruijn t2)))
2014-09-29T13:39:40Z vanila: de brjuin is when you use numbers to reference lambdas, rather than naming variables
2014-09-29T13:39:41Z vanila: e.g.
2014-09-29T13:39:50Z vanila: (lambda (x) (x (lambda (y) (x y)))
2014-09-29T13:39:52Z vanila: is written
2014-09-29T13:40:00Z vanila: (lambda (0 (lambda (1 0)))
2014-09-29T13:40:30Z vanila: de brjuin form factors out alpha-equivalence so it's good
2014-09-29T13:40:32Z ecraven: the number n references the (single) captured variable by the lambda n steps up the tree
2014-09-29T13:41:17Z nehaljwani: See the annotation: http://lpaste.net/111787 that is how I am using it now.
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2014-09-29T13:42:08Z vanila: nehaljwani, line 14 is indented badly
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2014-09-29T13:42:35Z nehaljwani: why
2014-09-29T13:42:42Z vanila: it is too far out
2014-09-29T13:43:12Z nehaljwani: but there is another parent cons
2014-09-29T13:43:39Z vanila: there shouldn't be
2014-09-29T13:46:06Z nehaljwani: vanila, a little more help please: http://fpaste.org/137378/41199834/
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2014-09-29T13:50:33Z ecraven: this might help http://lpaste.net/111787
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2014-09-29T14:04:40Z vanila: nehaljwani, If you use de brujin you don't need to worry about renaming!
2014-09-29T14:04:55Z nehaljwani: :-o
2014-09-29T14:05:12Z vanila: look at the good code ecraven posted
2014-09-29T14:05:43Z ecraven: mind it's only tested on one example, the one vanila posted above :)
2014-09-29T14:05:54Z ecraven: and it just leaves unbound identifiers untouched
2014-09-29T14:07:11Z vanila: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Bruijn_index
2014-09-29T14:07:23Z vanila: The colored diagram here explains it very well
2014-09-29T14:07:52Z ecraven: vanila: they start counting at 1, not 0 in that article?
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2014-09-29T14:25:36Z vanila: yeah
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2014-09-29T15:32:02Z lrs: http://pastebin.com/3zvhUA87 Can you use anything other than "and" to do this?
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2014-09-29T15:39:07Z vanila: (<= (lower-bound y) 0 (upper-bound y)) I think
2014-09-29T15:39:10Z vanila: check the R5RS
2014-09-29T15:39:23Z vanila: http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-15.html#%_index_start
2014-09-29T15:39:24Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/3xs7wx
2014-09-29T15:39:30Z vanila: http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_260
2014-09-29T15:39:31Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/ptrzovx
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2014-09-29T15:40:19Z taylanub: (I'd say check the R7RS when possible but doesn't matter here)
2014-09-29T15:41:19Z vanila: taylanub, I'm working on creating a HTML version of R7RS
2014-09-29T15:41:24Z taylanub: great :)
2014-09-29T15:41:35Z vanila: it's hard because I have to do it by  hand and R7RS IS SO LONGG!
2014-09-29T15:41:54Z vanila: [im lazy]
2014-09-29T15:42:10Z taylanub: I would've thought there's a way to translate (la)tex to HTML ?
2014-09-29T15:42:23Z vanila: I tried basically every automatic tool, none works well
2014-09-29T15:42:39Z taylanub: :\
2014-09-29T15:42:46Z vanila: maybe someone smart could touch up the LaTeX a little to make the tools work, but not me
2014-09-29T15:42:59Z lrs: vanila, cond?
2014-09-29T15:44:20Z _tca: taylanub: there is a way and thats how  that r5rs page was made http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/tex2page/
2014-09-29T15:45:01Z taylanub: vanila: ^
2014-09-29T15:45:02Z vanila: lrs, <=
2014-09-29T15:45:02Z _tca: but r7rs tex is broken and is fragmenting the community and making me sad so whoever wrote it is a bully
2014-09-29T15:45:11Z lrs: vanila, ?
2014-09-29T15:45:11Z _tca: taylanub: it doesnt work with r7rs
2014-09-29T15:45:22Z vanila: not COND
2014-09-29T15:45:25Z taylanub: _tca: .. r7rs tex is fragmenting the community? :P
2014-09-29T15:45:48Z taylanub: that's the strangest r7rs complaint I've heard
2014-09-29T15:45:51Z vanila: once we have a nice HTML verison R7RS will create a beautiful unity
2014-09-29T15:53:11Z lrs: vanila, cond worked o.o
2014-09-29T15:53:33Z vanila: what
2014-09-29T15:54:32Z lrs: In the paste i pasted. Nevermind.
2014-09-29T15:56:51Z taylanub: lrs: 'cond' is a generalization of 'if'.  it's basically an 'if-else-if-else...' chain
2014-09-29T15:57:05Z lrs: Yup. I know that.
2014-09-29T15:57:13Z lrs: I just found this codesnippet that used "and"
2014-09-29T15:57:21Z lrs: And wondered if it differed from cond in any way.
2014-09-29T15:57:25Z taylanub: I don't see where in that snippet you'd need 'cond'
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2014-09-29T15:57:56Z lrs: http://pastebin.com/VkBkSuhi
2014-09-29T15:58:01Z lrs: =.=
2014-09-29T15:58:17Z taylanub: lrs: that's utterly wrong
2014-09-29T15:58:27Z lrs: It works.
2014-09-29T15:58:32Z taylanub: no, it doesn't
2014-09-29T15:58:38Z taylanub: it always returns 0, which is true
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2014-09-29T15:58:47Z lrs: Yes. Thats the point.
2014-09-29T15:58:52Z taylanub: ...
2014-09-29T15:58:55Z taylanub: you use cond totally wrongly
2014-09-29T15:59:02Z taylanub: and just happened to write syntactically valid code which always returns 0
2014-09-29T15:59:08Z taylanub: by chance
2014-09-29T15:59:23Z taylanub: read up on how it's actually used
2014-09-29T15:59:28Z lrs: Its supposed to give a zero when youre dividing with a interval that spans from negative to positive
2014-09-29T15:59:44Z taylanub: it *always* gives 0, even if it doesn't span 0
2014-09-29T16:00:09Z lrs: ...
2014-09-29T16:00:11Z lrs: u.u
2014-09-29T16:00:14Z lrs: Fuck.
2014-09-29T16:00:36Z taylanub: even if it did work, it would be by chance.  you should make sure you know what the code you write actually means, precisely
2014-09-29T16:00:55Z taylanub: don't do this "trial and error" programming, it's a horrible practice and won't bring you anywhere
2014-09-29T16:01:01Z taylanub: not to sound mean, but that's how it is
2014-09-29T16:01:11Z lrs: Thats the only way I learn stuff, thats the bitter truth.
2014-09-29T16:01:26Z lrs: I have ADHD-PI so.
2014-09-29T16:01:27Z taylanub: well trial and error is fine in general
2014-09-29T16:01:33Z lrs: (excuse)
2014-09-29T16:01:45Z taylanub: but you should also know *why* it worked or didn't work
2014-09-29T16:02:08Z lrs: Telling me to read 100 pages of something just for me to find what I need in page 78 paragraph 3 will make me nuts. -_-
2014-09-29T16:02:25Z taylanub: the explanation of 'cond' should take 2-3 sentences at most
2014-09-29T16:02:34Z lrs: Yeah, thats why I asked what the difference between cond and and was
2014-09-29T16:02:39Z taylanub: you can search the index of the r5rs for 'cond'
2014-09-29T16:03:10Z taylanub: http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/
2014-09-29T16:03:23Z taylanub: click on 'index' on the right side
2014-09-29T16:03:30Z lrs: Yeah, Im already there
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2014-09-29T16:04:33Z taylanub: any way, you don't need cond in that function.  (define (span-zero? y) (<= (lower-bound y) 0 (upper-bound y)))  will do
2014-09-29T16:04:44Z taylanub: '<=' already returns a boolean, you can just return it as-is
2014-09-29T16:06:04Z lrs: taylanub, I want it to return an error message though.
2014-09-29T16:06:14Z lrs: Thats why the int-div-2 stuff says.. if spans sero
2014-09-29T16:07:00Z lrs: Cool! It works
2014-09-29T16:07:11Z taylanub: do you understand HOW it works?
2014-09-29T16:07:18Z lrs: Nope.
2014-09-29T16:07:25Z lrs: Please explain.
2014-09-29T16:09:03Z vanila: lrs: I suggested (<= (lower-bound y) 0 (upper-bound y)), not COND
2014-09-29T16:09:11Z taylanub: lrs: you don't want 'span-zero?' to return an error.  you want it to tell you if 'y' spans zero.  the other function *uses* 'span-zero?' to know whether 'z' spans zero, and throws an error if it does
2014-09-29T16:09:54Z taylanub: lrs: 'span-zero?' is, as its name suggests, a "predicate" -- something that should return "yes"/"no", or rather true/false
2014-09-29T16:10:01Z lrs: Yeah, if i use the int-div2 function on an interval that is between ex: [-2,2]
2014-09-29T16:10:05Z lrs: Its gonna return an error
2014-09-29T16:11:16Z taylanub: (it doesn't really return an error, it throws one and thus doesn't ever return, but anyway)
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2014-09-29T16:14:46Z lrs: taylanub, What do you mean
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2014-09-29T16:16:25Z taylanub: lrs: when a function "throws" (or "signals" or "raises") an "exception" (or "error" or "condition"), it interrupts execution and jumps to the exception handler.  the function doesn't return to who called it
2014-09-29T16:16:44Z lrs: taylanub, I want spans-zero to check if it spans from a negative number to  a positive number.... then i want int-div-2 to indicate if it does it will print out error
2014-09-29T16:16:58Z taylanub: ("throwing an exception", "signaling an error", and "raising a condition", or "raising an exception" -- ALL more or less the same thing)
2014-09-29T16:18:24Z taylanub: lrs: it's not really the function that prints an error.  first, the 'error' function throws an exception with the message you specified.  then, since you didn't specify an exception handler, this exception flies all the way up and your Scheme implementation catches it and prints the message.  the function that was executing is never finished
2014-09-29T16:18:50Z taylanub: lrs: for example execute the function (lambda () (error "foo") (display "bar\n")) and see if it displays bar.
2014-09-29T16:19:40Z taylanub: or:  (define (first-function) (second-function) (display "foo\n"))  (define (second-function) (error "bar")).  then call first-function and see if it displays foo.
2014-09-29T16:24:42Z lrs: This is too difficult for me.
2014-09-29T16:24:47Z lrs: I don't get what you mean.
2014-09-29T16:24:56Z lrs: Why doesn't my function work?
2014-09-29T16:26:27Z lrs: Ok I get what you mean
2014-09-29T16:27:09Z lrs: Ok " Error bar"
2014-09-29T16:27:44Z taylanub: not saying your function doesn't work; just explaining how it works
2014-09-29T16:27:52Z taylanub: (assuming it does; I didn't test it)
2014-09-29T16:28:25Z lrs: Yeah I get that
2014-09-29T16:28:26Z lrs: No problem
2014-09-29T16:28:37Z lrs: Its the lowebound => shit that connects to the error stuff I dont get
2014-09-29T16:31:37Z taylanub: lrs: you have to understand code in independent components.  the function 'spans-zero?' doesn't know anything about how it's going to be used, it just knows what it does itself
2014-09-29T16:31:49Z taylanub: which is to return true or false depending on whether the argument you give it spans zero
2014-09-29T16:31:58Z taylanub: you then use this function as a component in another function
2014-09-29T16:35:31Z lrs: RIghhht
2014-09-29T16:35:45Z lrs:  (if (spans-zero? y)
2014-09-29T16:35:47Z lrs:   (<= (lower-bound y) 0
2014-09-29T16:35:48Z lrs:        (upper-bound y)))
2014-09-29T16:35:58Z lrs: Thats what I dont get. I get the connection that you just said.
2014-09-29T16:36:33Z taylanub: huh
2014-09-29T16:36:53Z taylanub: when did you write that code?  it seems you put the (<= ...) in the wrong place
2014-09-29T16:37:00Z taylanub: that was meant to be the body of 'spans-zero?'
2014-09-29T16:37:20Z lrs: http://pastebin.com/5QHxJLe8
2014-09-29T16:37:53Z taylanub: that looks fine
2014-09-29T16:37:59Z taylanub: except the indentation is screwed
2014-09-29T16:38:06Z lrs: Heh.
2014-09-29T16:38:17Z lrs: I just dont get the stuff that I said
2014-09-29T16:38:23Z lrs: Can you explain it in english?
2014-09-29T16:39:51Z taylanub: maybe it's clearer like this: http://pastebin.com/F35PXu2k
2014-09-29T16:41:06Z lrs: I get that
2014-09-29T16:41:15Z lrs: I just dont really get what <= (lower-bound y) 0 (upper-bound y) means
2014-09-29T16:41:24Z lrs: And  (if (spans-zero? y)
2014-09-29T16:41:31Z lrs: Why y
2014-09-29T16:41:42Z lrs: And uh, the => stuff. What does it say
2014-09-29T16:41:51Z taylanub: y is just the 'y' parameter of the lambda you have there
2014-09-29T16:42:04Z taylanub: of course, 'span-zero?' could give it a totally different name
2014-09-29T16:42:25Z taylanub: the definition of 'spans-zero?' could be in a totally different file
2014-09-29T16:42:49Z taylanub: '(<= x y z)' means "x is smaller than or equal to y, which is smaller than or equal to z"
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2014-09-29T16:43:06Z LeoNerd: "x y z forms a non-decreasing sequence"
2014-09-29T16:43:52Z lrs: Can you explain what it means in that specific problem
2014-09-29T16:44:09Z taylanub: I don't think I can be any clearer
2014-09-29T16:45:13Z lrs: I meant if you could say that in my specific problem
2014-09-29T16:45:26Z taylanub: what exactly?
2014-09-29T16:45:31Z lrs: Instead of x y z
2014-09-29T16:45:57Z taylanub: "the lower bound of y is less than or equal to 0, and 0 is less than or equal to the upper bound of y"
2014-09-29T16:46:11Z taylanub: which is the spelled-out way of saying "y spans 0"
2014-09-29T16:46:52Z taylanub: I need to go.  laters.
2014-09-29T16:46:58Z lrs: See ya
2014-09-29T16:47:04Z lrs: Thanks for the help
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2014-09-29T20:35:43Z holst: damn scheme, I cannot even formulate my question! :D
2014-09-29T20:35:56Z holst: "I have a list and bla bla into a tree"
2014-09-29T20:36:10Z holst: looking at the data I want.. I question if its really a tree :P
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2014-09-29T20:37:17Z holst: Has anyone here made a "Makefile" like dependency graph code in Scheme?
2014-09-29T20:37:30Z holst: input= list of dependencies between objects
2014-09-29T20:37:55Z holst: output= dependency graph such that it can be evaluated bottom-up for a correct build order
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2014-09-29T20:38:50Z DerGuteMoritz: are you looking for a topological sort function?
2014-09-29T20:39:08Z mario-goulart: holst: there is a "make" implementation in scheme.  here's the port to CHICKEN http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/make
2014-09-29T20:40:53Z holst: thanks for the like!
2014-09-29T20:40:58Z holst: err. too much facebook
2014-09-29T20:41:00Z holst: link!
2014-09-29T20:41:12Z mario-goulart: :-)
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