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2014-09-23T00:34:51Z vanila: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/ \o/
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2014-09-23T01:35:48Z vanila: would anyone look over a syntacitc-closures definition for me please?
2014-09-23T01:36:55Z vanila: http://lpaste.net/111458
2014-09-23T01:37:05Z vanila: what would be the right way to implement LIST?
2014-09-23T01:37:21Z vanila: I debugged mine and found this fix but just curious how what ways would write it?
2014-09-23T01:37:24Z vanila: what other ways
2014-09-23T01:45:17Z vanila: http://lpaste.net/111460
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2014-09-23T09:47:54Z vanila: When I try to compile with chicken scheme it ignores my macros
2014-09-23T09:48:15Z vanila: if I cat all my files into one file, it works
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2014-09-23T09:49:29Z CaptainRant: vanila: Macros must be handled seperately. Modules support emmitting a .import.scm file, which is used for that.
2014-09-23T09:49:47Z vanila: I see
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2014-09-23T09:49:52Z vanila: now that I compiled my program it says Error: unbound variable: make-input-port
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2014-09-23T09:50:22Z CaptainRant: As a module ? For that you must import scheme and also ensure it gets loaded.
2014-09-23T09:50:48Z CaptainRant: Modules are quite confusing, but you can ask in #chicken if you want more specific answers.
2014-09-23T09:50:50Z vanila: http://wiki.call-cc.org/man/4/Unit%20ports the docs say it's used by default
2014-09-23T09:51:03Z vanila: thanks ill try
2014-09-23T09:51:12Z CaptainRant: Not in modules. They feature an identifier sterile environment.
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2014-09-23T09:54:06Z C-Keen: vanila: modules start with a clean environment, as a habit (import chicken scheme) after the export clause
2014-09-23T09:55:12Z vanila: I get the same problem if I add (import chicken scheme)
2014-09-23T09:55:31Z vanila: (use ports) this works
2014-09-23T09:58:05Z C-Keen: vanila: yes but you will note that wihtout chicken extensions to the scheme language like (use) won't work
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2014-09-23T14:04:52Z ilammy: Hey, guys.
2014-09-23T14:05:13Z ilammy: If one uses (+ <thing-1> <thing-2> ...) syntax to add things
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2014-09-23T14:05:33Z ilammy: and (- <thing-1> <thing-2> ...) to remove them,
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2014-09-23T14:06:12Z ilammy: then what should be a legible... uh... syntax for editing/modifying them?
2014-09-23T14:06:42Z InfusoElAmbulant: what you mean?
2014-09-23T14:09:46Z ilammy: suppose you have a syntax to declare language grammars, say (define-language A (terminals (foo (f)) (bar (b))))
2014-09-23T14:10:28Z ilammy: and you also can declare languages by extending already defined languages: (define-language B (extends A) (terminals (+ (baz (z))))
2014-09-23T14:10:34Z vanila: instead of + using add
2014-09-23T14:10:38Z vanila: instead of - remove
2014-09-23T14:10:48Z vanila: then (edit ...) to edit things
2014-09-23T14:11:04Z InfusoElAmbulant: can you easily extend languages?
2014-09-23T14:11:38Z InfusoElAmbulant: oh, like overriding...
2014-09-23T14:12:49Z InfusoElAmbulant: why not using a remove and then an insert?
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2014-09-23T14:14:07Z InfusoElAmbulant: what does the (terminals  (foo (f))) mean by the way?
2014-09-23T14:15:00Z ilammy: These 'f' and 'b' things stay for variable names that can be used to define nonterminals of the language.
2014-09-23T14:15:31Z ilammy: And I find it kinda stupid to remove a terminal and then add it back just to throw in an additional variable intoit.
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2014-09-23T14:16:01Z InfusoElAmbulant: you mean 'f' is an alias for foo?
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2014-09-23T14:16:23Z ilammy: Kinda like that.
2014-09-23T14:17:14Z InfusoElAmbulant: it's hard to understand for me what you want to do
2014-09-23T14:17:19Z ilammy: Till now I though sticking to (+ (foo ...)) for addition, (- (foo ...)) for removal, and just (foo ...) for modification was okay.
2014-09-23T14:17:58Z ilammy: But then I realized that technically I can use '+' to name a terminal. And that worked bad.
2014-09-23T14:18:35Z ilammy: So I am thinking of some new reserved keyword for expressing the modification.
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2014-09-23T14:19:02Z ilammy: To avoid just banning +, -, and whatever else as names
2014-09-23T14:20:34Z InfusoElAmbulant: why not using another keyword for updating?
2014-09-23T14:20:50Z ilammy: Well, yeah, that's what I am thinking of.
2014-09-23T14:21:04Z ilammy: But can't invent something as concise as these + and -
2014-09-23T14:21:45Z ilammy: + obviously means add, - is remove, but nothing comes to my mind that is update or edit
2014-09-23T14:21:56Z vanila: Did you get my message
2014-09-23T14:22:12Z ilammy: @ # $ % ^ & * : = --- all these are weird :(
2014-09-23T14:22:12Z InfusoElAmbulant: combine symbols as your taste. <*> <$>, $$, etc
2014-09-23T14:22:25Z ilammy: Yeah, vanila, I got it.
2014-09-23T14:22:27Z vanila: use the names you mean, instead of weird symbols - then you have a nice uniform language
2014-09-23T14:23:09Z ilammy: As a backup plan, yeah. Definitely will use it if^W when I give up.
2014-09-23T14:24:38Z InfusoElAmbulant: what about '<-' or ! (which remains for updating)? what does haskell uses in lenses for that?
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2014-09-23T14:26:05Z ilammy: Oh, right... the bang...
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2014-09-23T14:33:29Z ilammy: InfusoElAmbulant, thanks. That was like just in front of me, and I missed it.
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2014-09-23T16:28:50Z svercer: hi; I've got another r7rs question... in http://pastebin.com/RThzdKgR , clearly at least the definition of delta should give a syntax error "foo!"; however, I don't think the draft standard makes it at all clear whether the first two are valid... foment allows them, and I don't really see any other way of doing it in practice, but...
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2014-09-23T16:31:38Z svercer: the issue is, what is the "environment" of a syntax-rules form in a define-syntax form in a series of definitions at the beginning of a <body>? does the environment include the bindings introduced by the defines in that <body>? foment says no, but as far as I can tell, by the report, it should: "the region of the binding is the entire <body>"
2014-09-23T16:33:30Z ilammy: well, internal defines actually get rewritten into letrecs
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2014-09-23T16:33:47Z ilammy: but I have no clue whether this should happen before or after expanding the macros
2014-09-23T16:34:05Z ilammy: drilling into the standard...
2014-09-23T16:34:13Z svercer: I mean, the standard says they "can" be; I'm trying to write letrecs in terms of lambdas! =D that should be allowed, right?
2014-09-23T16:37:33Z svercer: that's actually kind of a larger question I have; how should this supposed letrec-rewrite interact with define-syntax?
2014-09-23T16:37:56Z ilammy: Okay, judging from item 5.3.2, internal defines get rewritten after everything is expanded.
2014-09-23T16:38:40Z svercer: so internal defines are simply not visible to the "bodies" of syntax transformers?
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2014-09-23T16:39:29Z Riastradh: svercer: BETA should be OK; GAMMA and DELTA should be failures.  The local meaning of ALPHA inside GAMMA is in place in the environment where the invocation of FOO occurs, so the name ALPHA refers to the local one, not the global one, and FOO's first rule will fail to match.
2014-09-23T16:42:20Z ilammy: Also, 'Similarly, it is an error for an internal definition to define an identifier whose binding has to be known in order to determine the boundary between the internal definitions and the expressions of the body it belongs to.'
2014-09-23T16:43:40Z ilammy: So I believe gamma should be an error because internal alpha is needed to determine how foo should be expanded.
2014-09-23T16:43:53Z svercer: ilammy: oh wait, now that you put it that way... I didn't consider that that statement applies to the current question too! I think all of beta, gamma, delta are errors then.
2014-09-23T16:44:10Z ilammy: And yeah, beta too.
2014-09-23T16:44:34Z svercer: of course I knew that you couldn't define foo locally, but it seems like the alpha's "binding has to be known" in order to determine the boundary in all cases
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2014-09-23T16:46:18Z ilammy: But dunno. foo is not _that_ unknown to determine a boundary. Or expanding into define.
2014-09-23T16:46:34Z ilammy: (Just checked this with Chibi. Fails on gamma.)
2014-09-23T16:47:29Z svercer: but for something to fail on gamma and not beta, while probably conducive to implementation, seems to defy the general principle that defines should be permutable, by the very meaning of letrec
2014-09-23T16:47:40Z ilammy: But judging from the example in the item 5.4, putting macro calls before internal defines is surely an error.
2014-09-23T16:48:22Z ilammy: And it seems that after internal defines it should be okay: they either expand into additional internal defines, or the body of the function.
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2014-09-23T16:50:01Z svercer: no, I think the plus/foo example is an error for other reasons
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2014-09-23T16:57:07Z svercer: 2 that I can see: internal foo variable definition conflicts with outer syntax definition, and internal plus might be a define due the expansion of foo
2014-09-23T16:57:45Z ilammy: I am looking at the formal syntax of Scheme programs (7.1.3), and it reads that <body> ::= <definition>* <command>* <expression>
2014-09-23T16:58:25Z ilammy: And <definition> does not include macro uses, which are the part of <expression>
2014-09-23T16:59:28Z ilammy: So I believe that you cannot mix internal definitions with macros that expand into internal definitions.
2014-09-23T16:59:31Z svercer: that's an issue with the formal syntax, then, given 5.4 "Macros can expand into definitions in any context that permits them."
2014-09-23T17:00:23Z ilammy: Well, I believe something that is forbidden by the formal syntax is not a context that permits usage of such macros.
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2014-09-23T17:01:21Z ilammy: That point should be read as 'you cannot expand into defines inside of just any expression, e.g. (+ (define x 42) 89)'
2014-09-23T17:02:08Z svercer: but the formal syntax also forbids (lambda () (begin (define alpha 1) alpha)) which is clearly permissible
2014-09-23T17:02:31Z svercer: frankly I don't put much stock in any section of the formal syntax beyond the lexical syntax bit
2014-09-23T17:03:02Z ilammy: Why is that forbidden? There are two <body> contexts there, the one of lambda, and another one of begin.
2014-09-23T17:03:35Z svercer: ah, sorry, there's a redundancy in the syntax
2014-09-23T17:03:40Z ilammy: Or they are not...
2014-09-23T17:04:00Z ilammy: Given (begin <sequence>)...
2014-09-23T17:04:28Z Riastradh: ilammy: Nothing wrong with putting macro calls before internal definitions.  To determine whether (foo) is a definition or not, when foo is a macro, you just have to expand it.
2014-09-23T17:05:27Z svercer: Riastradh: but do you expand it in an environment containing subsequent definitions (how could you?), or indeed previous definitions
2014-09-23T17:05:33Z Riastradh: Previous definitions.
2014-09-23T17:05:43Z Riastradh: Nothing magical about this.
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2014-09-23T17:06:12Z svercer: Riastradh: while I agree that this makes sense for an implementor, A) foment provides a counterexample and B) this isn't made clear in the spec
2014-09-23T17:07:21Z Riastradh: What's the counterexample?  The spec isn't always clear, since someone decided to write it in English instead of Scheme, but it's pretty obvious what the sensible thing is when you actually implement it.
2014-09-23T17:07:29Z ilammy: Yeah, maybe that's true. Just wondering why the plus/foo example is wrong then.
2014-09-23T17:10:30Z svercer: foment does not give an error on the definition of "gamma" in http://pastebin.com/RThzdKgR
2014-09-23T17:11:48Z svercer: whereas, if in (foo alpha "gamma"), alpha refers to the local binding, it should give an error
2014-09-23T17:12:07Z svercer: then again, I think Riastradh must be right
2014-09-23T17:12:19Z Riastradh: What is foment?
2014-09-23T17:12:28Z ilammy: And why beta and gamma are different then. If it was a letrec, (foo ...) should see an internal alpha in both cases.
2014-09-23T17:12:34Z Riastradh: If foment fails to fail on that, then foment is broken.
2014-09-23T17:12:37Z svercer: since, if (foo ...) might not expand into a binding but, e.g., (set! alpha "gamma"), then alpha had darn well better see internal alpha
2014-09-23T17:13:19Z svercer: Riastradh, would you say that beta is permissible, or should give an error?
2014-09-23T17:13:36Z Riastradh: Looks fine to me.
2014-09-23T17:14:28Z svercer: okay, okay
2014-09-23T17:15:11Z svercer: and I see that 5.3.2 says "an **expanded** body containing internal definitions can always be converted...", so I guess there's no issue with the fact that beta/gamma can't actually be converted as-is to letrec*s
2014-09-23T17:17:21Z svercer: Riastradh: this is somewhat unrelated, but is (lambda () (begin (define alpha 1) alpha)) permissible?
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2014-09-23T17:21:11Z ilammy: svercer, 5.3.2 actually does not seem to say why beta should be okay and gamma should fail.
2014-09-23T17:22:10Z ilammy: If macros are expanded before internal defines get rewritten, both should expand into (define bar).
2014-09-23T17:22:51Z svercer: I agree that the question of beta vs gamma is not answered by the spec
2014-09-23T17:23:12Z ilammy: This would make sense if macros are expanded one by one, until the internal defines end.
2014-09-23T17:23:48Z svercer: but clearly in gamma, foo /must/ see the internal alpha definition, and in beta, foo /cannot/ see the internal alpha definition without leading to an inconsistent parse
2014-09-23T17:24:44Z svercer: (foo must see internal alpha definition in gamma in case foo were in fact (syntax-rules () ((foo x y) (set! x y))), which is a perfectly ordinary bit of syntax)
2014-09-23T17:25:34Z ilammy: And I am still wondering why the plus/foo example from 5.4 is an error.
2014-09-23T17:25:50Z svercer: (define foo blah) changes the meaning of a previous definition
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2014-09-23T17:27:20Z svercer: this is in reference to 5.4, I mean. (define foo x) changes the meaning of (foo (plus x y) ...), and "it is an error for a definition to define an identifier whose binding has to be known in order to determine the meaning of ... any preceding definition that belongs to the same group...."
2014-09-23T17:29:23Z ilammy: Oh. Yeah.The compiler is unable to guess whether it is a macro, or a call to foo.
2014-09-23T17:30:12Z ilammy: But would not that make beta illegal then?..
2014-09-23T17:31:07Z ilammy: Ah, no... the following definition of alpha actually does not introduce any uncertainity.
2014-09-23T17:31:22Z ilammy: So... uh...
2014-09-23T17:31:30Z ilammy: Maybe yeah, the spec is complete.
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2014-09-23T17:34:49Z svercer: heh, nope, still don't agree with you... the spec is incomplete; I'm not entirely comfortable with any spec which requires speculation as to "is it in fact possible to implement semantics XYZ?" in order to determine whether the specified thing does in fact have semantics XYZ. however, in the intersection of implementations of the spec as-is and implementations which actually work, I agree that there is only one possibility for the beta/gamma issue
2014-09-23T17:38:08Z ilammy: Oh, snap, that was a type. I do wanted to say that it is incomplete.
2014-09-23T17:38:17Z svercer: oh
2014-09-23T17:38:19Z ilammy: s/type/typo/
2014-09-23T17:38:22Z svercer: well sure, I agree =D
2014-09-23T17:38:52Z svercer: you now owe my keyboard 500 keypresses =D
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2014-09-23T17:41:16Z svercer: anyways... what about inner (define-syntax ...); do they work the same way? i.e., is the set of bindings they see similarly limited to preceding defines (and what about define-syntaxes? how could you create mutually recursive syntaxes if so? is inclusion of a syntax keyword in an expansion a "use" of that syntax binding?)
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2014-09-23T17:44:08Z ilammy: I believe, internal define-syntax do not permit mutual recursion or backreferences. They are like let*.
2014-09-23T17:44:29Z ilammy: And for mutually recursive macros there is letrec-syntax.
2014-09-23T17:45:17Z ilammy: And toplevel mutually-recursive macros seem to be forbidden.
2014-09-23T17:45:37Z svercer: ah, good call; I was looking for it but forgot what it was called. then I guess the strategy of adding definitions to the environment interleaved with expanding macros works for syntax definitions too
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2014-09-23T18:13:27Z svercer: this, then, is my understanding of visibility of local bindings; if something seems wrong let me know because I might be terribly confused: http://pastebin.com/ukCeiVJM
2014-09-23T18:18:11Z svercer: but, darn it, that can't be right either! BBB and EEE will "see" different environments than, e.g., the RHS of any defines they expand into (which will see the same as A, C, G).
2014-09-23T18:18:12Z duncanm: la la la
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2014-09-23T19:42:28Z rabbit99: what concurrency abilities does scheme have?
2014-09-23T19:42:50Z rabbit99: golang goes on about them a lot and I wonder what scheme does in that department?
2014-09-23T19:43:57Z rabbit99: if a scheme has only user level threads, then how can a program be written to be fasT?
2014-09-23T19:44:09Z ARM9: threads are rarely the answer
2014-09-23T19:44:20Z rabbit99: can one proces hand work to others? like a master slave workload?
2014-09-23T19:44:37Z rabbit99: say I have chicken scheme and a busy web app
2014-09-23T19:44:44Z pjdelport: rabbit99: Scheme the standard language doesn't do much special, but Scheme implementations generally provide support for all kinds of things.
2014-09-23T19:45:10Z rabbit99: chicken doesnt have "os threads" so what does this mean for a busy web app?
2014-09-23T19:45:23Z rabbit99: http://wiki.call-cc.org/man/4/Unit%20srfi-18
2014-09-23T19:46:06Z rabbit99: does each web request fork its own chicken interpreter, which can use lightweigth continuation based threads? and it gets handled that way?
2014-09-23T19:46:32Z rabbit99: there concurrency thing I find very fascinating
2014-09-23T19:47:26Z rabbit99: but I wonder it is really not a barrier to high performance?
2014-09-23T19:48:36Z rabbit99: I remember addminning some java spring stuff adn they called it invesion of control microkernel
2014-09-23T19:48:38Z pjdelport: rabbit99: Performance is a lot more complicated than supporting threads or not. Using POSIX threads as request handlers generally won't give you anything close to high performance, in any language.
2014-09-23T19:48:57Z rabbit99: hm
2014-09-23T19:49:05Z pjdelport: rabbit99: For high performance, you want an event-handling I/O manager of some sort.
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2014-09-23T19:49:18Z rabbit99: ok so say I want to run a website on freebsd and chicken scheme
2014-09-23T19:49:28Z rabbit99: and the box I use has 8 cores and 16g ram
2014-09-23T19:49:40Z rabbit99: how can the work use all 8 cpu?
2014-09-23T19:49:55Z rabbit99: does each web request fork a new chicken interpreter?
2014-09-23T19:50:04Z rabbit99: does that eat a lot of ram?
2014-09-23T19:50:12Z rabbit99: how are these things handled?
2014-09-23T19:50:38Z pjdelport: rabbit99: It probably depends a lot on your application architecture.
2014-09-23T19:50:38Z rabbit99: I am aware of epoll/kqueue eventy things but have not idea how they hand off work to things like chicken
2014-09-23T19:50:51Z rabbit99: hm
2014-09-23T19:51:56Z rabbit99: so 1 chicken process can not control another running on another cpu right?
2014-09-23T19:53:25Z rabbit99: hmmmmmmmmmmm
2014-09-23T19:53:42Z pjdelport: I don't really have experience with Chicken Scheme for this in particular, but you could probably approach it in a number of ways.
2014-09-23T19:53:45Z rabbit99: aolserver is high performance and does the threads thing
2014-09-23T19:54:29Z rabbit99: I mean if 1 chicken process could be aware of 7 "slaves" on the other 7 cpu ona 8 cpu box, then it could "farm out" some work to those
2014-09-23T19:54:32Z rabbit99: but if not
2014-09-23T19:54:39Z rabbit99: I dont know how things would work
2014-09-23T19:54:50Z pjdelport: rabbit99: I'm sure you could do that, yes, among a number of other things. :)
2014-09-23T19:54:57Z C-Keen: that sums it up
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2014-09-23T19:55:27Z rabbit99: paul graham wrote that with viaweb each user got its own lisp interprteter, which would thenhave a conversation with the client, and I think spring did this, not to mention rails
2014-09-23T19:55:31Z rabbit99: but im not sure
2014-09-23T19:55:39Z pjdelport: rabbit99: There's not just one way to do it, and the best approach probably depends a lot on how your application is structured.
2014-09-23T19:55:47Z rabbit99: hm
2014-09-23T19:56:03Z rabbit99: where would I read about different ways this is accomplished?
2014-09-23T19:56:21Z pjdelport: For example, what kind of state and communication the handlers have to share; how long- or short-lived various things are, and so on.
2014-09-23T19:56:39Z pjdelport: rabbit99: What are your requirements, basically?
2014-09-23T19:56:53Z pjdelport: From a user or application perspective?
2014-09-23T19:57:02Z rabbit99: say an e commerce site, with lots of products
2014-09-23T19:57:12Z pjdelport: There are *very* different kinds of web apps you can write, with very different performance needs.
2014-09-23T19:57:18Z pjdelport: Okay.
2014-09-23T19:57:31Z pjdelport: How are you approaching data storage and persistence?
2014-09-23T19:58:05Z rabbit99: say I used hypertable for persistance
2014-09-23T19:59:25Z rabbit99: ok let me not get too crazy
2014-09-23T19:59:30Z rabbit99: how about postgresql
2014-09-23T19:59:50Z rabbit99: ideally id use www.prevayler.org but in scheme
2014-09-23T20:01:08Z pjdelport: You could certainly do that. Having a Scheme process per CPU could certainly fill it, but that only really matters if your bottleneck is CPU.
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2014-09-23T20:01:58Z rabbit99: hm
2014-09-23T20:02:09Z rabbit99: so say what my bottle neck is disk?
2014-09-23T20:02:11Z rabbit99: ram?
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2014-09-23T20:02:28Z rabbit99: the fork an intperpreter per client seeems more a ram hungeyr approach
2014-09-23T20:02:39Z rabbit99: unless inactive instances can be swapped
2014-09-23T20:02:45Z rabbit99: without too much chaos
2014-09-23T20:03:15Z rabbit99: and if each client uses an external data store anyhow
2014-09-23T20:03:18Z rabbit99: it doesnt matter
2014-09-23T20:03:26Z rabbit99: which cpu the client is on
2014-09-23T20:03:34Z rabbit99: the external db keeps state
2014-09-23T20:03:38Z rabbit99: hmmmmmmmmmmmm!
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2014-09-23T20:03:50Z pjdelport: rabbit99: "It depends.™"
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2014-09-23T20:03:52Z rabbit99: am I totally off in my reasoning?
2014-09-23T20:04:17Z pjdelport: There really is very little one can say by just guessing. You'll have to get down and write some code, do some profiling, and so on, as part of fleshing out your design.
2014-09-23T20:04:43Z pjdelport: If you're particularly interested in scaling, you might want to read http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html and related
2014-09-23T20:04:47Z pjdelport: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C10k_problem
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2014-09-23T20:05:08Z rabbit99: yeah that is a theory rich link, without the deiscussion I want about concurrency tradeffs
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2014-09-23T20:05:23Z pjdelport: I/O is an important concern too.
2014-09-23T20:05:43Z rabbit99: I know there are threads, continuations, kqueue, epoll, events, ipc, but how to make and sense of it all is beyond me
2014-09-23T20:05:58Z rabbit99: but i/o is "all things being equal" right?
2014-09-23T20:06:34Z rabbit99: each concurrency strategy hits same io barrier, or are you saying they each have a diferent io footprint! ahhgg then this is even more complex
2014-09-23T20:07:01Z theseb: python
2014-09-23T20:07:30Z pjdelport: rabbit99: The best thing is to just write and profile and improve some systems.
2014-09-23T20:07:39Z rabbit99: object oriented design is the roman numerals of computing
2014-09-23T20:07:43Z pjdelport: rabbit99: There probably isn't really any other way to learn about this.
2014-09-23T20:07:47Z rabbit99: ok
2014-09-23T20:07:51Z rabbit99: heh
2014-09-23T20:07:56Z rabbit99: pypy!
2014-09-23T20:07:56Z pjdelport: Choose one and go with it :)
2014-09-23T20:08:05Z pjdelport: When it becomes too slow, *then* you profile and improve.
2014-09-23T20:08:06Z rabbit99: I am reluctant to use python
2014-09-23T20:08:17Z pjdelport: Otherwise it's chasing after phantoms.
2014-09-23T20:08:26Z rabbit99: so I should use golang? it claims megasuperfast0r
2014-09-23T20:08:46Z pjdelport: If you can stand it, you can try it. :)
2014-09-23T20:08:52Z rabbit99: lol
2014-09-23T20:09:03Z pjdelport: (golang feels very much like it's stuck in the 70s, though.)
2014-09-23T20:09:12Z rabbit99: its not simple and fun like scheme, in fact it reminds me of perl, million different things
2014-09-23T20:09:25Z pjdelport: You can write fast code in golang, but you can also write fast code in C.
2014-09-23T20:09:33Z rabbit99: scheme is appealing because syntax has some rhyme n reason
2014-09-23T20:09:44Z pjdelport: Exactly.
2014-09-23T20:09:55Z pjdelport: So just do your thing, and have fun. :)
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2014-09-23T20:10:29Z rabbit99: i've been trying some prolog
2014-09-23T20:10:34Z rabbit99: and its promising
2014-09-23T20:10:44Z rabbit99: esp since swi prolog has multi threaded web server
2014-09-23T20:10:48Z rabbit99: but man the syntax
2014-09-23T20:10:55Z rabbit99: head starting to hurt
2014-09-23T20:11:24Z rabbit99: some time I wil read the reasoned schemer
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2014-09-23T20:16:16Z rabbit99: pjdelport: do you have any scheme powered websites?
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2014-09-23T20:16:49Z pjdelport: Nah, i'm just an occasional Scheme dilettante, to be honest. :)
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2014-09-23T20:19:43Z rabbit99: ah well, what can ya do, right?
2014-09-23T20:20:03Z rabbit99: concurrnency with erlang, golang, haskell seems pretty hard core
2014-09-23T20:20:19Z rabbit99: I wonder how much of a real advantage it is
2014-09-23T20:20:22Z rabbit99: hmmm
2014-09-23T20:21:44Z pjdelport: Haskell's concurrency is pretty neat.
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2014-09-23T20:21:48Z _tca: Rust decided to give up on green threads as a part of the language after trying to make it work and decided on native
2014-09-23T20:23:26Z rabbit99: aolserver has always used native
2014-09-23T20:23:38Z rabbit99: some claim nginx is not faster
2014-09-23T20:23:44Z rabbit99: hey waa
2014-09-23T20:24:29Z pjdelport: I'm not sure what aolserver uses, but if it's high-performance, i'm sure it's not OS thread per request, at least.
2014-09-23T20:24:55Z rabbit99: it is
2014-09-23T20:24:58Z pjdelport: The common approach would be a process or thread per core, and user-level multiplexing on top of that.
2014-09-23T20:25:04Z rabbit99: and its fast as the ddevil
2014-09-23T20:25:47Z pjdelport: rabbit99: What i'm saying is that if it's fast, it's probably not OS threads :)
2014-09-23T20:25:56Z pjdelport: user threads on top of OS threads, sure
2014-09-23T20:26:10Z pjdelport: (That's what many high-performance runtimes do.)
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2014-09-23T20:28:22Z rabbit99: but it is os threads
2014-09-23T20:28:45Z rabbit99: I am your father LUKE!
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2014-09-23T20:49:15Z ecraven: pjdelport: but user threads on a single os thread don't work so well sometimes :)
2014-09-23T20:49:39Z pjdelport: It depends.™ :)
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2014-09-23T21:03:08Z rabbit99: heh
2014-09-23T21:03:18Z rabbit99: computers are evil!!!
2014-09-23T21:03:24Z rabbit99: better to just workout a lot
2014-09-23T21:03:36Z rabbit99: build mud house
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2014-09-23T21:38:46Z rabbit99: I bet a chicken scheme powered website would be less pain than ruby or python or php
2014-09-23T21:40:20Z samth: gavino, go away
2014-09-23T21:44:58Z fantazo: oh oh, gavino here? the great master of childish all-powered language wishes.
2014-09-23T21:45:11Z samth: fantazo: rabbit99 is gavino
2014-09-23T21:45:43Z fantazo: gavino is like a truck load of best wishes for a programming language.
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2014-09-23T21:47:02Z rabbit99: gavino the great
2014-09-23T21:47:41Z fantazo: I bet a website handled by gavino would be less pain than a website handled by a team of administrators.
2014-09-23T21:47:58Z rabbit99: I bet you dont make 80/hour
2014-09-23T21:48:07Z rabbit99: yet think your brilliant!!
2014-09-23T21:48:14Z rabbit99: an intellect of cosmic cube proportions!
2014-09-23T21:48:51Z fantazo: no, I'm the usual dumb fuck. I'm human. what do you want? stupid like the rest.
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2014-09-23T22:11:55Z rabbit99: what does it mean to be human?
2014-09-23T22:14:36Z rabbit99: yeha
2014-09-23T22:14:47Z rabbit99: I just dont like hearing from the live at moms young commies
2014-09-23T22:14:59Z rabbit99: those can bugger off ya know?
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