00:00:07 -!- ASau [~user@p5083D448.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:01:08 A tight collar, for sure. 00:04:45 wbooze [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-185-226.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:05:33 -!- oleo is now known as Guest57559 00:06:35 -!- Guest57559 [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-189-114.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:07:07 -!- wbooze is now known as oleo 00:20:30 taylanub [tub@p4FD91B05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 00:20:56 What the hell, the part of the expander that handles lambda ended up being the most complicated. :P 00:21:29 I dunno, I think handling definitions is really the most complicated business. 00:22:23 Riastradh: Internal defines and such ? 00:23:20 I noticed that even top-level defines are kind of ugly actually, the top-level is a strange place! 00:24:33 I'm mostly leaving those things out for now because it distracts from my goal of experimenting with macro semantics in general. 00:24:49 If you want to figure out how to handle definitions, I suggest taking a look at . 00:25:29 (That and the much messier and kludgier macro expander in MIT Scheme are the only ones I've seen that have a consistent story about definitions and expressions.) 00:29:02 BTW what would you say about the general goal of propagating the lexical environments of procedural macros into the run-time such that (define-syntax foo (let ((x _)) (lambda (stx) (... x ...] works ? 00:30:24 Can you fill in the ellipses with a concrete example? 00:36:28 (define-syntax foo (let ((x _)) (lambda (stx) (syntax (+ x (unsyntax (car stx))))))) 00:37:09 This `syntax' special form would generate code that wraps the created syntax object together with the lexical environment, and outputs this. 00:37:25 juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 00:37:54 Outputs what? 00:38:00 What would that even mean? 00:38:03 I have an almost-working implementation of this now, but it could be that I'm missing something fundamental, I never implemented any Scheme before let alone one with hygienic procedural macros. 00:38:21 (define-syntax foo (let ((x (open-input-file "/xyz"))) ...)) 00:38:35 The object that wraps the lexical environment and the syntax object that comes from that environment. 00:38:55 (outputs that) 00:39:08 Hrm .. 00:39:34 That's nasty :) 00:40:40 I have to re-read SRFI-72, I thought it also does this somehow. 00:41:05 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:41:40 (One could just let that code blow up and still offer the functionality, but it's not a nice thing to do I guess.) 00:41:53 If it does, then it doesn't make any sense (but knowing Andre, I don't think he would do something that insensible). 00:42:29 (That said, I have not looked closely at SRFI 72, and I believe he adapted that algorithm and code later for the R6RS or R7RS.) 00:43:42 It looks like I misinterpreted it according to my wishes. 00:46:51 So yeah, if one is going to compile and execute separately, then there's the precondition that the objects bound to these variables must have an external representation, which holds not even for procedures, so it's not very useful at all I guess. 00:47:20 Oh well, it was fun to implement. 00:57:03 phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has joined #scheme 01:01:15 -!- phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:06:09 MouldyOldBones [~mob@gateway/tor-sasl/mouldyoldbones] has joined #scheme 01:10:59 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:25:25 Rodya_ [~trav@71.175.107.141] has joined #scheme 01:28:45 i'm about to start working through SICP. are there particular versions of scheme well suited for this? 01:33:56 phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has joined #scheme 01:34:54 a perennial question -| 01:35:19 Rodya_: I have no personal experience, but I hear that MIT scheme might work; also there used to be a SICP plugin for racket 01:35:50 We should put the answer for this into the channel topic or so. :P 01:36:00 http://stackoverflow.com/a/260705 says "use MIT scheme" 01:36:30 it would make a lot of sense that an MIT book would be compatible with MIT scheme 01:37:17 however, further down it says "use Racket", and the answerer is often in #racket, so you can pester him if things don't work :) 01:37:20 free support! 01:38:08 juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 01:39:07 http://www.neilvandyke.org/racket-sicp/ 01:41:26 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD91B05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:41:26 have that installed already, perfect 01:41:52 taylanub [tub@p4FD904C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 01:43:04 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:44:58 -!- phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:05 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3291.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:54:33 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.38.118] has joined #scheme 01:56:58 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.38.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:27 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.38.118] has joined #scheme 02:26:50 hey schemers. 02:27:43 I just read a part of the SICP section on streams where a sieve of eratosthenes is defined. 02:28:06 but unfortunately the sieve causes a stack overflow with large enough numbers 02:29:06 http://paste.lisp.org/display/141110 02:29:26 I can see why the stack overflows, the sieve is defined in terms of itself. 02:29:39 hmm 02:29:53 I'd have expected the sieve to be tail-recursive, but who knows. 02:30:07 does anyone have good literature for implementing a stream of prime numbers? 02:30:09 Every week we choose some code, and bring you a series of exercises about that code. 02:30:31 davexunit: dunno about "good literature", but _lots_ of people have done this; Google should point you in the right direction 02:30:51 offby1: I have found a couple of implementations that are rather complicated. 02:30:59 a lot of what I find doesn't use streams 02:31:45 I really like the simplicity of the sieve in SICP, but it's not tail recursive. 02:34:51 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:38:57 juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 02:43:29 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:46:09 -!- davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has quit [Quit: Later] 02:49:04 tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 03:04:04 TheSHAD0W [~irc@199.27.158.250] has joined #scheme 03:06:03 -!- TheSHAD0W [~irc@199.27.158.250] has left #scheme 03:09:34 -!- tiksa [~tiksa@gateway/tor-sasl/tiksa] has quit [Quit: peace] 03:19:06 -!- klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 03:20:38 b4283 [~b4283@118.150.148.244] has joined #scheme 03:22:49 -!- Rodya_ [~trav@71.175.107.141] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:32:03 -!- tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:39:41 juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 03:41:00 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 03:41:36 juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 03:41:47 tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 03:45:59 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:49:18 ackpacket [1806ee5f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.6.238.95] has joined #scheme 03:54:43 so with a lambda function I can call it immediately 03:54:52 by writing it's arguements following it? 03:56:03 -!- tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:56:40 -!- yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 03:56:55 phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has joined #scheme 03:57:12 rudybot: ((lambda () 3)) 03:57:12 nisstyre: ; Value: 3 03:58:38 rudybot: ((lambda (x y) (+ x x y y)) 2 3) 03:58:38 ackpacket: your sandbox is ready 03:58:38 ackpacket: ; Value: 10 03:58:57 sandbox ready? Is that for keeping our enviroments seperate? 03:59:09 as in the procs i define are not accessible to you and visaversa 04:00:39 tadni` [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 04:05:51 ackpacket: yeah I believe so 04:05:59 rudybot: (define foo 3) 04:06:00 nisstyre: Done. 04:06:03 rudybot: foo 04:06:03 nisstyre: ; Value: 3 04:06:11 now obviously you can't access that 04:06:20 rudybot: foo 04:06:20 ackpacket: error: foo: undefined; cannot reference an identifier before its definition in module: 'program 04:06:30 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.38.118] has left #scheme 04:06:53 i guess if it didn't work that way, foo would constantly be overwritten haha 04:07:07 I think it periodically deletes your sandbox 04:07:12 ofc 04:07:22 yeah, else you could waste a lot of memory 04:07:37 well, it probably has memory limits too 04:08:09 jhao [~user@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:08:16 max of three sandboxes; newer ones evict older ones. 04:08:35 that makes sense 04:08:52 ackpacket: yes, the sanboxes are to keep y'all out of y'all's hair 04:09:18 rudybot: (define foo() (foo)) 04:09:19 ackpacket: error: #:1:0: define: bad syntax (multiple expressions after identifier) in: (define foo () (foo)) 04:09:19 s a n d b o x e s 04:09:31 rudybot: (define (foo) (foo)) 04:09:31 ackpacket: Done. 04:09:34 there ya go 04:09:37 rudybot: (foo) 04:09:40 *offby1* whistles innocently 04:09:46 XD 04:09:47 ackpacket: error: with-limit: out of time 04:10:18 ackpacket: way ahead of you. 04:10:41 why in the world are they teaching this class in scheme 04:10:49 I find it INCREDIBLY annoying in terms of syntax 04:11:14 the overabundance of parentheses slows down my typing and bracket-balancing a lot 04:11:21 professors like it! 04:11:35 Use an editor that balances them for you. 04:11:35 some editors make it easier. vim and emacs in particular 04:11:51 emacs just shows the balancing paren, but doesn't do a great job of balancing them 04:12:01 *offby1* rubs chin 04:12:04 I wonder if ... 04:12:05 nah ... 04:12:07 maybe ... 04:12:11 We don't notice them any more than a C programmer notices the commas and semicolons or a Python programmer notices the whitespace in the lefthand column. 04:13:13 Oh don't get me wrong, i'm not saying it's syntactically bad or anything like that. It's purely a convenience thing. I can add a tab to indicate some kind of tree structure or scope far faster than I can handle all of these parens 04:14:10 that's partly about you and your editor, and only somewhat about the language. 04:14:15 but you're not the first to complain. 04:14:17 I can add a parenthesis far faster than I can fix the indentation in a Python block I just moved around. 04:14:44 (and Emacs can then fix the indentation for me in Scheme) 04:14:44 Riastradh: well, I bet you probably wrote a whole special emacs mode for parentheses twiddling or something. 04:14:50 That'd be just like you 04:15:17 Who, me? You can't prove anything! The evidence is all circumstantial! 04:15:55 oh, never mind then 04:18:02 ackpacket, anyway, offby1 is referring to paredit: http://mumble.net/~campbell/emacs/paredit.el 04:18:22 Some people like to use it when editing Scheme code. 04:18:33 Does this language/dialect have any niche carved out in the professional development world? 04:18:35 tadni`` [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 04:19:11 -!- cross [~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:12 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 04:19:59 -!- tadni` [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:23:01 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:23:45 Yes, it has a few niches. 04:28:36 cross [~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has joined #scheme 04:32:52 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36:25 amgarching [~amgarchin@p4FD63A7C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 04:39:51 ec_ [~elliottca@ell.io] has joined #scheme 04:39:56 ft_ [~ft@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #scheme 04:42:15 juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 04:46:45 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:53:28 alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD6170E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 04:57:05 -!- amgarching [~amgarchin@p4FD63A7C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:05:47 -!- effy_ [~x@114.253.32.17] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:06:07 -!- `^_^v [~nycs@rrcs-24-39-141-128.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:06:18 -!- ec [~elliottca@ell.io] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:21 -!- ft [~ft@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:06:21 -!- ft_ is now known as ft 05:06:23 brianmwaters [~brianmwat@65.183.133.17] has joined #scheme 05:06:29 `^_^v [~nycs@rrcs-24-39-141-128.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:06:39 effy [~x@114.253.32.17] has joined #scheme 05:07:08 -!- brianmwaters [~brianmwat@65.183.133.17] has left #scheme 05:07:31 fadein_ [~Erik@c-67-161-246-186.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:07:45 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.146] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:08:02 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.146] has joined #scheme 05:08:37 tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 05:09:17 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD63A7C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 05:10:16 -!- tadni`` [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12:44 foof [~user@li126-140.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 05:12:48 -!- fadein [~Erik@c-67-161-246-186.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:15:50 -!- tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:20:05 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 05:20:35 araujo [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has joined #scheme 05:20:35 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has quit [Changing host] 05:20:35 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 05:22:03 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@d60-65-147-223.col.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:22:45 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@d60-65-147-223.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #scheme 05:24:46 juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 05:27:27 tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 05:41:22 -!- tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:47 tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 05:51:14 -!- tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:57:33 -!- arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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'(+ 1 2) (list '+ 1 2)) 09:11:45 cky: ; Value: #t 09:12:01 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #scheme 09:12:04 rudybot: (equal? '(+ 1 2) (list + 1 2)) 09:12:06 cky: ; Value: #f 09:12:18 rudybot: (equal? `(,+ 1 2) (list + 1 2)) 09:12:18 cky: ; Value: #t 09:12:42 To get the _procedure_ +, you need to use either (list + 1 2) or `(,+ 1 2), your choice. 09:13:06 ok i understand 09:13:18 btw, is there a way to convert quoted symbol to proc? 09:13:48 cos (apply '+ 1 2) doesnt work either 09:13:51 There is, but it's not very easy to use and I don't encourage you to do that. However, if the list of symbols you are trying to match is fixed, you can just use an alist. 09:13:59 Of course it doesn't work. :-) 09:14:15 okay, then i must be doing something wrong :) 09:14:25 Hehehehehe. 09:15:03 u seem to know ur scheme! 09:15:59 I'm not a Scheme beginner, if that's what you're asking. :-) 09:16:42 http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/222/3 <-- an example of the "just use an alist" approach for symbol->procedure mapping. 09:16:52 (Disclosure: I wrote that.) 09:17:20 i know your posts ;) 09:17:22 on SO 09:17:33 Awwwww. :-) 09:19:17 can emacs debug scheme code like drracket (which isnt much, but better than nothing :) 09:19:49 I haven't tried that, so I can't comment on that. 09:20:11 lisp has the slime, which is great 09:20:13 I tend not to need to single-step through Scheme code; most of my Scheme code, to my delighted surprise, usually work the first time. 09:20:32 Well, there's Geiser. 09:20:34 i believe there's something similar for scheme too, i just havent had a change to try out different packages 09:21:03 yeah, geiser has been giving me headache (as in, not working right) so i had to put off getting to know it better as i have deadlines approaching 09:21:11 *nods* 09:22:02 what do u use as ur IDE? 09:22:39 I use DrRacket sometimes; otherwise just paredit or vi. 09:22:55 For short programs, I usually just use straight vi. 09:23:39 and for large ones??? ;) 09:23:59 Paredit. 09:24:17 isnt that an emacs package? 09:24:21 For example, I wrote the whole Guile port of SRFI 41 using paredit. 09:24:23 Yes. 09:24:50 I don't want to say emacs though in case people think I'm talking about vanilla emacs. 09:25:32 (My current vi implementation is vim but I use it 100% vanilla. No customisations, plugins, etc. My emacs setup is also almost totally vanilla except with the addition of paredit.) 09:26:33 i thought paredit was just for navigating/editing sexps? 09:26:48 "Just" is an understatement. 09:27:00 For editing Lisp and Scheme programs, paredit makes everything a delight. 09:27:46 If you've never used it before, it may take some getting used to, but once you're used to it, you'll wonder how you ever did without it. 09:28:09 thatts for next week 09:28:13 :-) 09:28:27 Anyway, I gotta go to sleep. Have fun, and good luck! 09:28:50 (I really don't like staying up till 4:30, but it's what it is.) 09:30:27 thanks 09:30:33 good luck to u too 09:43:30 -!- phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:50:11 szgyg [~szgyg@62-165-255-106.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #scheme 10:05:35 wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 10:10:17 dprelec [~dprelec@93-139-76-229.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 10:14:27 LeoNerd: do you use vim with scheme? 10:14:34 if so I have a question 10:15:46 how do you copy scheme from vim over to a scheme repl (using tmux)? 10:16:00 I'm currently using tslime.vim, but want to know if there is a better way. 10:18:44 emacs+slime ;) 10:25:32 is it possible to print a function definition (ie lambda) that was created programmatically in racket? 10:25:39 ie to get back source code 10:29:49 jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-77.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:31:12 zacts: I'd just use my mouse :) 10:31:19 click-drag middle 10:31:23 LeoNerd: lol 10:31:25 really? 10:31:51 LeoNerd: so you are more of the kind of person that uses multiple terminal windows, rather than tmux? 10:32:32 Yup 10:32:32 sstrickl_ [~sstrickl@pool-71-163-31-115.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 10:32:32 -!- sstrickl_ [~sstrickl@pool-71-163-31-115.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:32:32 sstrickl_ [~sstrickl@racket/sstrickl] has joined #scheme 10:32:39 I think that damian conway is the same way (based on the star wars vim plugin lecture) 10:33:11 LeoNerd: do you use Linux/BSD/Apple as your main box? 10:33:40 Linux; debian + XFCE 10:33:51 And Sawfish. Hence Scheme ;( 10:33:53 ;) 10:34:07 oh cool. I use i3wm + xterms + tmux. 10:34:24 anyway, yeah. thanks anyway. 10:34:37 LeoNerd: have you heard of guile-wm? 10:34:50 Hmmmm, no 10:34:56 let me find a link.. 10:35:15 https://github.com/mwitmer/guile-wm 10:35:46 LeoNerd: looks cool. I hope to eventually port it to FreeBSD. (I'm porting guile-2.0 now) 10:36:16 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE000e582ae076-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 10:36:28 inarru_ [~edwardgeo@nest.insectsarerubbish.org] has joined #scheme 10:39:03 I like guile + lilypond. 10:39:57 ivan\_ [~ivan@108-213-76-179.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 10:40:03 jcp [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 10:40:04 -!- jcp is now known as Guest99791 10:40:06 jchelary [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 10:40:37 lol, the ultimate goal would be to see if I could program my window manager with music! :D 10:40:53 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-77.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:40:53 -!- dprelec [~dprelec@93-139-76-229.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:40:54 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:40:54 -!- gnomon_ [~gnomon@CPE000e582ae076-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:40:54 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[~yaaic@brln-4db970a0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 16:25:36 -!- liqu0rice [~yaaic@brln-4db970a0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:36:05 Has anyone ever considered making ' , ` hygienic somehow, or at least turn into some more obscure symbols/objects so shadowing them by accident is harder ? Even just having them turn into __quote and such and making that a synonym for quote in the default environment might alleviate some headaches, and one could still purposefully shadow them by rebinding __quote etc. 16:36:54 Like Racket's #' #, #` for SYNTAX, UNSYNTAX, and QUASISYNTAX? 16:37:43 Do those not change meaning when shadowing SYNTAX etc. ? 16:38:00 taylanub: they do -- they're just reader abbreviations 16:38:22 I use (quote thing) instead of 'thing 16:38:28 Do you often find yourself writing (let ((quote x)) ...)? 16:38:38 Maybe I just need to be more careful, I did really manage to accidentally shadow `unquote'. :) 16:39:29 Riastradh: btw, it's esp confusing to use CAPS for quoting those identifiers, since there are places where racket uses `UNSYNTAX` as a different identifier from `unsyntax` 16:39:38 ie, http://docs.racket-lang.org/scribble/scribble_manual_code.html?q=UNSYNTAX#%28form._%28%28lib._scribble%2Fmanual..rkt%29._.R.A.C.K.E.T.B.L.O.C.K%29%29 16:39:38 http://tinyurl.com/lfg9ajz 16:39:55 (It was while implementing quasiquote, so I could check an object's identity against the unquote syntax transformer.) 16:40:05 Well, contrariwise, it's confusing for Racket to use a different meaning for those two... 16:41:18 regardless of your opinion on that, when talking about something that distinguishes them, one shouldn't conflate them 16:41:52 I don't think anyone would be confused by that in this context. 16:42:17 If I were talking about Scribble, perhaps. 16:42:51 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 16:45:06 -!- b4285 [~b4283@1-175-238-126.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ] 16:46:25 *eli* mumbles something about some recent `'(quoting styles)` 16:55:01 moo 16:55:13 hiroaki [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #scheme 17:25:18 (quote quote) 17:32:16 jao [~jao@224.133.14.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 17:32:20 -!- jao [~jao@224.133.14.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Changing host] 17:32:20 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 17:44:01 zett_zelett [~zett_zele@p2003004DEC282D0102216AFFFE32DB30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:45:16 add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-0.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 17:47:20 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:51:14 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:51:22 juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 17:55:48 melba [~melba@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 18:03:51 alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD6170E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:05:03 -!- b4283 [~b4283@118.150.148.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:19:01 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:51 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@racket/sstrickl] has left #scheme 18:28:24 eli: I confess to talking `like this` because I've been using markdown a lot 18:29:34 markdown y u so silly 18:36:47 langmartin [~langmarti@host-68-169-154-130.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 18:40:35 juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 18:45:13 hiroaki [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #scheme 18:47:18 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:54 juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 18:51:59 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:54:45 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #scheme 18:58:59 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-77.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:59:46 -!- tenq|away is now known as tenq 19:02:50 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 19:05:59 -!- Guest99791 [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:14:46 -!- melba [~melba@unaffiliated/lazz0] has left #scheme 19:25:07 What's wrong with this function? I am getting an error about incorrect usage of letrec: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6863191/ 19:25:37 see also: Page 32 of The Seasoned Schemer 19:27:22 SwashBuckla: when I try it, it says "missing body", which I think is a good clue. 19:27:31 SwashBuckla: is that enough, or should I explain further? 19:27:35 offby1: markdown is a local maximum in the area of silly ideas about markup being human read/write-able 19:28:35 and yet I find it the most convenient of all the alternatives that I know about. 19:28:41 RST is complex and ugly 19:28:54 scribble of course is lovely but I hesitate to force my coworkers to install it 19:29:21 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 19:29:25 hmm 19:29:33 I'll take a closer look 19:30:06 it works until you get to the yricky bits, like quasiquotes, and the it fails in spectacular ways 19:30:19 got it 19:30:26 offby1: so many brackets! 19:30:33 eli: oh, it's primitive; I know enough not to push it too hard. 19:30:47 SwashBuckla: dude! This is scheme! 19:30:50 hahahah 19:30:51 :P 19:30:53 WE EAT BRACKETS FOR BREAKFAST. 19:31:09 *SwashBuckla* reluctantly shovels brackets into face 19:31:10 or: "Brackets? What brackets? I don't see any brackets." 19:31:41 ITYM brackfast 19:31:45 someone recently (was it eli?) said "we tend not to notice the brackets, the way Python programmers don't notice the leading whitespace, or C/Java programmers don't notice the semicolons" 19:31:45 I just need to get a nicer IDE that perhaps greys out areas I'm not interesed in 19:32:09 I'm guessing you're not using racket, or else you'd already be using DrRacket. 19:32:22 I'm using racket and vim 19:32:35 try DrRacket if you're in search of an IDE. 19:32:38 ok 19:32:39 thanks :) 19:32:48 also: there's a #racket channel. 19:32:54 many of the same people as here, but still. 19:33:30 I am not currently leveraging the language Racket, as I am working through the Schemer trilogy 19:33:40 but I shall lurk 19:33:57 probably not me, I wouldn't have compared it to python 19:34:44 let the lurking begin! 19:34:58 tcsc [~tcsc@c-76-127-240-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:35:00 eli: ah, Riastradh. You two are so easy to mix up 19:36:45 phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has joined #scheme 19:38:14 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 19:38:42 -!- phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:46 phipes_ [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has joined #scheme 19:39:15 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 19:43:23 -!- Rodya_ [~trav@c-69-242-48-55.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:43:26 -!- phipes_ [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:47:05 what I *do* stress to my students, over and over, is that lispers never count parens -- not when you write code (hence the important editor support) and not when you read code (leading to strict indentation rules that make the structure visible). 19:47:46 *eli* is on a phone and therefore slow 19:51:10 eli: I count parens when writing example code directly in IRC (I should probably get a better IRC client okay) 19:56:48 nisstyre: yes, you defonitely should... 19:58:38 juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 20:00:23 Rodya_ [~trav@c-69-242-48-55.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:03:03 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@80.174.182.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:05:13 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:05:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-5.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:26 or just copy and paste from a decent editor into your IRC client. 20:06:48 brace-matching is handy for most languages, but for lispy languages it's essential. 20:23:39 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:39:20 phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has joined #scheme 20:39:34 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD904C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:40:00 taylanub [tub@p4FD90BA3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 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