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#scheme 06:39:24 palach [~palach@89-178-0-167.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 06:41:21 jharri34 [a46fd628@gateway/web/freenode/ip.164.111.214.40] has joined #scheme 06:42:05 hello all 06:43:26 im attempting to do algebraic simplification using the define syntax to implement a small context free grammer 06:44:24 however i'm stuck trying to figure out how to do tokenization in MIT-Scheme 06:46:01 can some help me out? am i taking the right approach? is this possible in mit-scheme? are there more elegant solutions available? 06:46:27 what would be to most scheme like way to attack this problem thanks to all 06:51:17 -!- ezio [~ezio@unaffiliated/ezio] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:52:06 -!- tenq is now known as tenq|away 06:54:03 phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has joined #scheme 06:58:37 -!- alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD56B5A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:04:39 -!- tcsc [~tcsc@c-76-127-240-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 07:06:05 pierpa [~user@95.236.58.43] has joined #scheme 07:06:54 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:09:27 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.89.13] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:22 -!- mrowe is now known as mrowe_away 07:13:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-25.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 07:34:52 jharri34: what have you got so far? 07:35:25 depending on whether this is homework or not you might want to look into MIT/GNU Scheme's *parser for parsing support :) 07:38:06 wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 07:40:20 karswell [~user@87.114.158.60] has joined #scheme 07:40:47 yacks [~py@122.179.86.89] has joined #scheme 07:46:53 -!- jharri34 [a46fd628@gateway/web/freenode/ip.164.111.214.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:47:56 civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has joined #scheme 07:49:12 bars0 [~Name@d143-96.icpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 07:51:29 -!- juxovec_ [~juxovec@155.Red-80-32-126.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51:56 juxovec [~juxovec@155.Red-80-32-126.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 07:56:27 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@155.Red-80-32-126.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:56:48 juxovec [~juxovec@31.4.243.109] has joined #scheme 07:59:32 jharri34 [d8ab2d7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.171.45.126] has joined #scheme 08:00:04 juxovec_ [~juxovec@155.Red-80-32-126.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 08:01:13 ecraven: yes this is for homework however im attempting to program the pragmatic and elegant solution 08:01:27 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@31.4.243.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:03:06 jharri34: you need to tokenize a string, right? 08:03:43 jharri34: either use BURST-STRING to split it up and then just use STRING-SEARCH-FORWARD or STRING-FIND-NEXT-CHAR, or go all the way and read about *PARSER in the manual :) 08:04:04 yes 08:04:18 i'm reading through it now 08:04:31 I'm no expert myself, but I've used it, just ask if you need help 08:04:45 what do you think of my approach 08:04:47 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-241-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:05:11 thanks alot 08:11:27 what is your approach? 08:13:25 -!- juxovec_ [~juxovec@155.Red-80-32-126.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:53 juxovec [~juxovec@155.Red-80-32-126.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 08:13:59 -!- bars0 [~Name@d143-96.icpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:17:11 nicdev`` [~user@kilimanjaro.rafpepa.com] has joined #scheme 08:17:18 juxovec_ [~juxovec@131.Red-88-6-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 08:17:59 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@155.Red-80-32-126.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:18:56 Sgeo_ [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 08:19:37 -!- certainty [~david@www1.d-coded.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:19:38 -!- rotty_ 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I wonder if most people behind SRFI-110 actually bothered to learn it and use it for a while. I lack data points but my own experience has been that editing s-expressions with paredit is more pleasent than editing "normal" code without an equivalent of paredit (which can't exist for "normal" syntax), so I dislike it how SRFI-110 contributes to the "Lots of Irritating 19:49:00 Silly Parentheses" meme without even mentioning paredit. 19:49:44 taylanub: that's basically true until paredit gets desynchronized from your text 19:49:48 at which point you lose very hard 19:49:58 "desynchronized" ? 19:50:32 paredit can get confused about your parens 19:50:55 for example, type '; )' (i.e., a commented paren) and then uncomment it 19:50:59 it's impossible to delete that paren :\ 19:51:21 You can use C-w. And I never had that happen to me ... 19:51:44 what is C-w? it tells me that "the mark is not set now" (sorry, new emacs user) 19:51:59 `kill-region', i.e. "cut" 19:52:14 mark some text (the paren), kill it with C-w 19:52:22 ahh, I see 19:52:25 today I learned! 19:52:40 anyway, I <3 paredit 19:52:49 ebzzry_ [~ebzzry@112.204.31.237] has joined #scheme 19:53:08 My main annoyance with Paredit is that it doesn't always work in non-Lisp languages. :) 19:53:25 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.204.31.237] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:32 Other than that, it will fail in e.g. a REPL buffer which automatically deletes text at the top, which will unbalance pairs. A special configuration to keep pair balance while deleting text on top would solve that, maybe I should implement it for Geiser. (BTW maybe SmartParens mode does better there; recent somewhat more generalized alternative to Paredit.) 19:58:27 -!- mmachenry [~Adium@208.78.140.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:59:15 mmachenry [~Adium@208.78.140.246] has joined #scheme 20:00:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-25.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:55 smartparens seems nice, but their standard behavior slightly differs from paredit's, right? i wanted to replace autopair and paredit with smartparens, but that stopped me: could lead to a confusion between it and paredit =/ 20:06:34 -!- mmachenry [~Adium@208.78.140.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:06:46 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@31.4.243.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:24 juxovec [~juxovec@31.4.243.109] has joined #scheme 20:07:55 There's some "strict" mode that enforces balancing more .. strictly. 20:08:16 `smartparens-strict-mode' 20:09:43 -!- ezioa [~ezio@nexus-4.wireless.uwo.ca] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:10:14 ezio [~ezio@unaffiliated/ezio] has joined #scheme 20:11:29 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@31.4.243.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:12:58 ezioa [~ezio@nexus-4.wireless.uwo.ca] has joined #scheme 20:13:05 and it plays nice with other modes than lisp, right? i'm missing paredit in other modes quite much, but turning paredit everywhere would be too extreme 20:13:21 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 20:14:17 -!- tenq is now known as tenq|away 20:15:00 -!- ezio [~ezio@unaffiliated/ezio] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:15:10 I don't know how the strict mode behaves when pairs go out of balance, maybe it's handled better than how Paredit handles it. 20:15:36 What does paredit handle badly? 20:16:09 mmachenry [~Adium@208.78.140.246] has joined #scheme 20:16:58 I don't have a clear example, just bad memories, I'll test a couple things .. 20:17:06 ezio [~ezio@unaffiliated/ezio] has joined #scheme 20:17:35 paredit handles everything good enough for me, but only for lisp. in other languages and modes there could be unbalanced parens, which was mentioned above 20:17:38 -!- ezioa [~ezio@nexus-4.wireless.uwo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:17:54 is paredit meant to work with non-s-expression syntax languages? 20:18:08 i've never used paredit....maybe i should try it 20:18:14 no, most likely. but looks like smartparens meant 20:18:29 what i really want is something to automagically indent my code the right way per Riastradh's style guidelines 20:18:40 Yes you should. :) Do try to learn it though, don't get frustrated and stop after realizing you can't just delete singular parentheses. 20:18:52 theseb: emacs does that, doesn't it? 20:19:20 defanor, while I don't claim paredit will do a great job for non-Lisps, in what other languages, besides shell script, do you often have unbalanced parentheses? 20:19:22 ecraven: then what does paredit give us that is so grand? 20:19:36 keybindings for structurally editing s-expressions 20:19:38 theseb, paredit is about editing parentheses, not indentation. 20:19:57 Riastradh: but emacs' scheme -mode already highlights corresponding parens 20:20:03 Editing, not highlighting. 20:20:25 (FYI POSIX sh also accepts (foo) instead of foo) in the `case' syntax so you don't *have* to have unbalanced pairs.) 20:20:29 Riastradh: has refactoring (as in extracting a sub-expression and "automagically" deciding which variables are now free and putting them as parameters of a new define) ever been a notion you thought about? 20:20:36 Riastradh: about parens it was more about modes, like irc client, mail client, org-mode lists sometimes 20:21:56 oh, and probably i had some problems with that in C, with weird macros. but not sure 20:22:31 ecraven, something like that, but I have no plans to experiment with that sort of thing. 20:22:46 rainbow-delimiters definitely fails to determine balanced parens in C quite often, but i have not tried paredit for other languages for long enough time 20:23:34 ecraven, I no longer agree with the title of this paste, but this was my last foray into a related matter: http://paste.lisp.org/display/21271 20:23:45 Riastradh: would it even be feasible? there's probably no general way to find out what is bound and unbound (without invoking the host compiler), is there? you could just approximate "knowing" about the standard binding forms? 20:24:24 Either you run a compiler (i.e., macro expander) or you heuristically guess. 20:25:20 Riastradh: that paste is for converting (define (x) ..) <-> (define x (lambda ...))? 20:25:37 Yes. 20:25:46 -!- adbge [~rps@c-24-14-247-168.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:26:59 -!- ezio [~ezio@unaffiliated/ezio] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:29:34 -!- mmachenry [~Adium@208.78.140.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:31:34 Riastradh: The only concrete complaint I can come up with ATM is that a stale ( can't be removed with DEL, and a stale ) can't be removed with C-d. smartparens-strict-mode seems to allow these. This rarely ever happens to me, but not being able to DEL a stale ( can give a sense of frustration. :) 20:32:21 Works for me. 20:32:37 -!- Ogion_ [~Ogion@97.Red-81-39-21.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:32:41 I just created a buffer in Scheme Mode and Paredit Mode with a sole `(', and DEL with the point after it deleted it. 20:33:19 Huh, maybe I need to update. 20:33:52 -!- klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 20:34:13 It's been this way since 2008. 20:37:15 juxovec [~juxovec@31.4.243.109] has joined #scheme 20:37:31 i can't delete ")" with C-d 20:37:55 but DEL works 20:38:12 -!- tenq|away is now known as tenq 20:39:00 C-d works for me. I created a buffer with a sole `)', and C-d with the point before it deleted it. 20:39:03 and can't delete "(" with DEL, but C-d works 20:39:05 mzdravkov [~me@client-73-33-41.speedy-net.bg] has joined #scheme 20:39:08 When I start emacs -Q with Emacs 24.3.2 and load paredit.el downloaded from http://mumble.net/~campbell/emacs/paredit.el then enter Paredit mode, insert a (), delete the ) with C-w, I can't use DEL on the (. 20:39:19 They all work for me. 20:39:27 Oh, wait. 20:39:29 Ahem. 20:39:33 It helps to actually enable Paredit Mode. 20:39:40 heh 20:39:54 OK, I see what's going on. 20:41:48 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@31.4.243.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:42:15 juxovec [~juxovec@31.4.243.109] has joined #scheme 20:43:56 mmachenry [~Adium@208.78.140.246] has joined #scheme 20:47:28 pnkfelix [~pnkfelix@bas75-2-88-170-201-21.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 20:47:32 -!- dkordic [~danilo@178-223-51-243.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:47:57 -!- tupi [~user@189.60.14.237] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:19 Fixed in Git. 20:49:22 Anything else? 20:50:44 Heh, will notify if I notice anything, thanks. :D 20:51:02 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-184-196.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:30 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-158-30.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:55:04 Ogion_ [~Ogion@97.Red-81-39-21.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:55:37 -!- mmachenry [~Adium@208.78.140.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:59:51 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@31.4.243.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:25 decided to check paredit in other languages now. got "Unmatched bracket or quote" in haskell (not sure why, it's inside a string), then the same in C (weird macros) 21:03:26 mmachenry [~Adium@208.78.140.246] has joined #scheme 21:05:06 defanor: Could be related to the "syntax-table" of the buffer/mode, IIRC paredit makes use of Emacs' syntax-parse stuff which uses this syntax-table thing. 21:06:07 checked that string in another buffer now, it does not lead to this error itself 21:07:08 perhaps it's because of comments, error occurs even when everything is commented out 21:14:55 -!- mmachenry [~Adium@208.78.140.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:14:55 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-wqemhdgecxwotbln] has joined #scheme 21:17:16 Is it possible to print out all the intermediate values of a recursive function call in mit-scheme? 21:17:25 trace 21:20:59 -!- tenq is now known as tenq|away 21:27:53 Can someone please give me a hint about what I'm doing wrong. I really want to figure this out for my self, but I've been at it for several days and really starting to loose my temper over this. I want to enforce a non-iterative recursion for a simple (add x y) function. I want to add 1 for each time x > 0 and the same for y and call the function recursively by subtracting 1 from the parameter: 21:27:55 https://gist.github.com/ironhouzi/6f988bed5e685d762eb9 21:29:06 iron_houzi: what's wrong with what you've got? 21:29:30 Runs out of stack memory allocation .. 21:30:12 iron_houzi: you don't want to substract from both, just one 21:30:39 iron_houzi: you are also adding up too many things, it seems 21:31:02 juxovec [~juxovec@31.4.243.109] has joined #scheme 21:31:12 iron_houzi: I'd add more special cases! If x is zero, just return y; if y is zero, just return x. 21:31:13 mornfall: But if I subtract from both, I only get the summation of (max x y) 21:33:34 (define (plus-rec x y) (if (= y 0) x (plus-rec (+ x 1) (- y 1)))) 21:34:19 iron_houzi: how I'd do it: https://gist.github.com/8676994 21:35:49 Thanks guys. I'll look at your answers after I've taken your hints and see if I can make it work. If not, I'll surrender and be thankful for your complete answers. 21:36:12 offby1: that's kinda awful 21:36:30 mornfall: :-) 21:36:54 mornfall: yours doesn't terminate if y is already negative 21:36:58 *offby1* gloats 21:37:01 *offby1* dances like an idiot in the end zone 21:37:05 offby1: of course, it's addition of naturals 21:37:11 -!- wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:38:29 ... and mine apepars utterly broken for negative inputs. 21:38:30 Oh well! 21:38:42 offby1: it's utterly broken per se 21:39:12 offby1: (it's something like abs(x) + abs(y) with really bad implementation) 21:39:34 good thing nobody pays me to write code! 21:41:55 it's a good thing hardware people do this addition thing for us 21:42:00 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@31.4.243.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:44:01 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-wqemhdgecxwotbln] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:45:34 mmachenry [~Adium@208.78.140.246] has joined 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