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(apply (lambda (x) (+ x 7)) 9) 02:02:32 this works... ((lambda (x) (+ x 7)) 9) 02:02:49 rudybot: eval ((lambda (x) (+ x 7)) 9) 02:02:50 theseb: your sandbox is ready 02:02:50 theseb: ; Value: 16 02:03:04 rudybot: eval (apply (lambda (x) (+ x 7)) 9) 02:03:07 theseb: error: apply: contract violation expected: list? given: 9 argument position: 2nd other arguments...: # 02:06:48 oh snap ...n/m 02:06:52 i fixed it :) 02:06:55 (apply (lambda (x) (+ x 7)) '(9)) 02:16:07 -!- davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:24:12 -!- phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:28 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 02:26:53 b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 02:28:26 phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has joined #scheme 02:29:42 -!- visualshock [~visualsho@host-37-191-204-89.lynet.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:33:04 -!- tenq|away is now known as tenq 02:35:41 zRecursive 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ZZZzzz] 14:00:54 thevishy [~thevishy@mail.zeomega.com] has joined #scheme 14:01:55 (let ((! (lambda (x) (if (= x 1) 1 (* x (! (- x 1))))))) (! 7) doesn't work because ! binding is from the global or outer scope ... this is unavoiadble because let is supposed to create local bindings from its outer context - a let design issue ? 14:02:01 not issue let design thing ? 14:02:41 (! 7) works because let has defined it ... but the (lambda ) is an expression from the outer , thats the way let is ? 14:03:34 if you go by strictly english / pseudo language I dont see why this shouln't work ... so 14:05:33 its a bit dodgy 14:05:39 :) 14:05:50 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:59 try letrec? 14:06:03 LeoNerd [leo@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fe96:20e8] has joined #scheme 14:06:30 where ? is not part of the name :) 14:06:35 so: letrec 14:07:07 thevishy^ 14:07:41 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:48 letrec would work estevocastro but i am wondering why let doesnt allow this 14:08:01 there is something about let that says evaluation is from outer scope ? 14:08:03 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #scheme 14:08:23 (and even I read letrec implementation is a bit hard ... so will have to check it :) ) 14:08:34 juxovec [~juxovec@77.209.224.65.red-acceso.airtel.net] has joined #scheme 14:11:13 (let (x some-value) ) is like ((lambda (x) ) some-value) 14:11:38 you see some-value is evaluated out of the scope of x 14:12:31 correct 14:13:01 so yes, evaluation of the let clauses happens in a scope without the bindings that let introduces 14:13:11 right ! 14:13:13 so, in the outer scope 14:13:33 thanks estevocastro ! 14:13:40 yw 14:13:57 and let is just a syntactic sugar 14:14:07 yes 14:14:10 right 14:16:45 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 14:18:57 -!- sethalves [~user@headache.hungry.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:20:26 sethalves [~user@headache.hungry.com] has joined #scheme 14:26:53 haroldwu [~haroldwu@219.85.185.194] has joined #scheme 14:32:11 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:32:32 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #scheme 14:41:59 -!- amgarching [~amgarchin@p4FD62133.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:44:42 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 14:48:21 przl [~przlrkt@p57923682.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 15:05:57 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57923682.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:06:41 przl [~przlrkt@p57923682.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 15:07:51 ada2358 [~ada2358@login.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 15:10:16 ggrant` [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 15:15:56 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p5483306C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 15:20:11 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p5483306C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:21:38 -!- b4283 [~b4283@218-164-221-215.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ] 15:27:53 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:37:11 -!- finnrobi [~robb@notlupus.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:37:44 finnrobi [~robb@notlupus.info] has joined #scheme 15:37:51 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@77.209.224.65.red-acceso.airtel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:33 juxovec [~juxovec@77.209.224.65.red-acceso.airtel.net] has joined #scheme 15:40:53 -!- aranhoide [~aranhoide@234.Red-83-47-64.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:41:31 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@77.209.224.65.red-acceso.airtel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:04 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 15:51:51 -!- vishesh [~vishesh@122.177.180.135] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53:37 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:54:38 X-Scale [email@89.180.7.83] has joined #scheme 16:01:36 sstrickl_ [~sstrickl@racket/sstrickl] has joined #scheme 16:01:44 -!- sstrickl_ is now known as sstrickl 16:03:17 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-68-160.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:04:28 -!- jcowan [~John@earth.ccil.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:33 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #scheme 16:20:41 -!- thevishy [~thevishy@mail.zeomega.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:20:52 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:22:09 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #scheme 16:22:38 when macro expressions are processed does it involve apply or eval? 16:23:00 Yes and no. 16:23:08 e.g. (add-1-macro 4) ---> ( (lambda (x) (+ x 1)) 4) ---> ??? 16:23:18 to get to ??? do you do an appy or eval there? 16:23:25 It does involve evaluation (for procedural macros, at least), because they run code. 16:23:54 But it's all happening at a different phase. 16:24:02 stamourv: i think now that an apply happens and then no more evals happen 16:24:17 (unless they are implicit in the apply somehow) 16:24:25 I recommend: www.cs.utah.edu/plt/publications/macromod.pdf 16:25:00 stamourv: problem is i'm using define-macro which isn't documented anywhere i can find....all docs seem to be about the more proper scheme macro system 16:25:49 Right. `define-macro' can't do reliable, composable macros. 16:25:54 You should avoid it. 16:26:13 Riastradh: you said something fascinating yesterday that made a lot of stuff click...you said there were 2 classes of special forms?....the "fundamental" ones that eval must deal with explicitly and "all the rest" you can implement with macros? is that right? 16:26:48 stamourv: what do you mean "composable"? 16:27:40 Macros that can be used with other macros, from other macros. 16:28:07 Take Racket as an example. Pretty much everything you see (even lambda, let, etc.) is a macro. 16:28:29 theseb, yes. 16:28:32 All these macros need to be able to work with all these other macros, plus all the ones the user writes. 16:29:44 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p5483306C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 16:29:57 Riastradh: cool..thanks for mentioning that....that was most helpful 16:30:47 stamourv: why could simple define-macro replacements work if you had nested macros like you are saying? 16:30:54 stamourv: couldn't* 16:31:41 That's not about nested macros. That's about, say, `cond' expanding into `if'. Or allowing `let' and `if' to be used in the same program. 16:31:53 (define-macro (push item list) `(SET! ,list (CONS ,item ,list))) 16:32:03 You can't use this macro if you have shadowed SET! and CONS. 16:32:17 defmacro has two major problems: macros can capture user names, and user code can shadow bindings needed by the macro. 16:32:27 (add1 Riastradh) 16:32:46 (let ((pros '(good-idea cheap)) (cons '(doesnt-actually-work))) (push 'oops cons) (list pros cons)) 16:40:04 adbge [~rps@c-24-14-247-168.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:48:03 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #scheme 17:04:33 tupi [~user@189.60.14.237] has joined #scheme 17:07:08 waxysubs` [hope9@world.peace.net] has joined #scheme 17:07:10 mario-go` [~user@email.parenteses.org] has joined #scheme 17:07:36 sethalve_ [~user@headache.hungry.com] has joined #scheme 17:09:09 -!- mmc1 [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:09:09 -!- sethalves 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