00:02:03 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:02:42 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 00:02:52 -!- DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@157.254.210.30] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:52 -!- yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:52 -!- mmc1 [~michal@j212115.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:53 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:53 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@hunt-sting-2-164.greenmountainaccess.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:54 -!- aap_ [~aap@85.183.44.54] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:54 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:02:54 -!- githogori_ [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:03:19 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 00:04:24 mmc1 [~michal@j212115.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 00:04:53 yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 00:05:21 githogori_ [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:06:15 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.116.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:06:52 acarrico [~acarrico@hunt-sting-2-164.greenmountainaccess.net] has joined #scheme 00:06:52 aap_ [~aap@85.183.44.54] has joined #scheme 00:13:49 yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has joined #scheme 00:14:07 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 00:22:33 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 00:27:05 -!- emma_ is now known as emma 00:27:14 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:27:42 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:28:28 aranhoide [~aranhoide@49.Red-79-157-1.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 00:33:50 xyh [~user@113.108.133.57] has joined #scheme 00:36:57 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 00:40:21 -!- xyh [~user@113.108.133.57] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:41:33 xyh [~user@113.108.133.57] has joined #scheme 00:46:00 -!- mmc1 [~michal@j212115.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:53:10 jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:54:35 -!- FireFly [~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:57:48 DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@rrcs-76-79-65-218.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:58:26 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:00:14 -!- DeathByDoubleD-1 [~DeathByDo@157.254.210.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:20:59 Dolfje [~nevzets@unaffiliated/nevzets] has joined #scheme 01:21:27 Is there an R6 way of establishing bindings within a library at expand level without having to import them from somewhere from that? 01:21:41 As in, make a file wherein you define a macro transformer and make the other functions in that file visible for use in the macro transformer? 01:22:42 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 01:24:15 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:26:34 -!- DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@rrcs-76-79-65-218.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: DeathByDoubleDip] 01:27:30 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:28:10 no 01:28:35 or at least, I never figured out how 01:28:53 jao [~jao@21.Red-79-153-49.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 01:28:56 -!- jao [~jao@21.Red-79-153-49.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:28:56 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 01:42:40 ijp, so it's possible if you put them in a different library and import them but not otherwise? 01:42:55 Oh well, you can put multiple libraries within a single file I guess 01:43:26 that's not really well supported outside of larceny 01:44:11 Ah, hmm 01:44:15 Dolfje: if it's not a lot, I usually just stick my definitions (define-syntax foo (lambda (stx) *HERE* (syntax-case ....))) 01:44:25 but then you can't share them 01:44:33 Yeah 01:44:41 I have that now 01:44:46 Which is a bit ad hoc. 01:52:00 hatFolk [~hatFolk@ip68-100-231-112.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 01:53:10 b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 01:55:27 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD6395D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:57:07 -!- vraid [50d8e34d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.216.227.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:11:49 -!- xyh [~user@113.108.133.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:19:18 xyh [~user@113.108.133.57] has joined #scheme 02:19:42 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #scheme 02:20:30 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #scheme 02:21:16 -!- davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has quit [Quit: Later] 02:22:30 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 02:25:38 -!- Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:27:17 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:35:52 -!- rgc` [~user@95.Red-83-33-70.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:15 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:42:21 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #scheme 02:44:12 fire [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has joined #scheme 02:46:49 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 02:47:45 can't you include your definitions where you have the *HERE*? 02:47:47 azathoth99 [cebe4f83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.190.79.131] has joined #scheme 02:48:05 how do I aplly my new function to a list or 3 argument lists? 02:48:08 of 02:48:09 aranhoide: that is one I said 02:48:11 what* 02:48:17 azathoth99: fuck off gavino 02:48:18 like say I have 3 argument function 02:48:27 and I wana process 30 3 item records with it? 02:48:33 ijp: I meant (include "myhelpers.scm") 02:48:36 ijp: its 2014 be nice 02:48:48 (I'm not familiar with R6RS libraries) 02:49:00 but something like that is how I do it for low level macros 02:49:01 aranhoide: that's not very nice though, since you're adding it multiple times 02:49:25 and if it's in a different file, you may as well use a different module, and import at phase 1 02:49:35 which is what he wanted to avoid 02:49:42 ijp: I see 02:50:55 there are some tricks you can do with let syntax and co. for expressions, but they don't work for definitions 02:51:47 *ijp* rummages through hard disk for an example 02:53:40 ijp: nevermind; as you said my suggestion was not really helping Dolfje 02:54:10 -!- xyh [~user@113.108.133.57] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:54:35 https://gist.github.com/ijp/1603552 02:56:27 that meta-if looks kind of like cond-expand. the difference would be that you can't just put any arbitrary condition in cond-expand? 02:56:59 e.g. (defined? 'define-syntax-rule) 02:59:40 the usecase there is not really interesting 03:01:06 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:01:12 -!- aranhoide [~aranhoide@49.Red-79-157-1.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:02:09 marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has joined #scheme 03:02:19 azathoth99, you mean (apply function l1 l2 l3)? 03:07:23 yeah 03:07:26 apply 03:07:42 so if I had x y z ad paramters 03:08:09 (apply myfunction '(x1 y1 z1) '(x2 y2 z2)) ? 03:09:03 azathoth99, what argument pattern does myfunction take? 03:09:12 3 numbers 03:09:17 You want to apply it twice? 03:09:26 well to 2 sets of data 03:09:31 Ahh 03:09:34 or 20 03:09:41 Yeah, I see what you mean 03:09:52 You want to map 03:09:59 each set of 3 inputs should give 1 output... 03:10:00 ah 03:10:01 map 03:10:58 You want to do (map (lambda (xs) (apply myfunction xs)) (list '(x1 y1 z1) '(x2 y2 z2))) basically 03:11:17 You first put all the arguments into a list and then you map[ (lambda (xs) (apply myfunction xs)) over it 03:12:50 azathoth99, it's obvious you are annoying some people here so if you have a quaestion about scheme further you can message the person identified as nevzets (me), I change nicks quite often. 03:13:01 I was the person with whom you last talked about rainbow braces 03:14:27 ah 03:14:56 But does it work for you? 03:15:02 does sicp cover this kinda thing? 03:15:53 I would hope so or it's a bad book 03:16:17 SICP is more about teaching programming strategies in functional languages than scheme though, the version of scheme it uses is some-what outdated on some parts 03:17:23 whatwhat [8a1a4135@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.26.65.53] has joined #scheme 03:17:23 -!- whatwhat [8a1a4135@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.26.65.53] has quit [Client Quit] 03:18:14 wutwut [8a1a4135@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.26.65.53] has joined #scheme 03:18:14 -!- wutwut [8a1a4135@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.26.65.53] has quit [Client Quit] 03:18:26 (define (pps x y z) 03:18:35 Rodya_ [~trav@2601:b:c400:8de:7165:4191:30bc:ff7a] has joined #scheme 03:18:37 whichdoiuse [8a1a4135@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.26.65.53] has joined #scheme 03:18:54 (/ x (+ y (/ z 2.0)))) 03:18:58 now 03:19:02 pps works 03:19:12 but howto map it onot mutliple lsits of 3 variables? 03:19:15 like 03:19:37 20 17 6 18 16 8 22 17 2 03:19:43 Which implementation of scheme most closely follows the standards, but isn't out of date (like GNU/MIT Scheme)? 03:19:50 which standard 03:20:07 6 or 7 I suppose 03:20:15 I usually find racket to be the most pedantic 03:20:18 no idea about 7 03:20:20 (map pps (list '(20 17 6) '(18 16 8) '(22 17 2))) 03:20:21 ? 03:20:34 guile and mit scheme 03:20:42 racket is kinda doing what it likes 03:21:02 Wikipedia says MIT Scheme only implements _most_ of R5RS 03:21:06 so is everyone else 03:22:21 http://www.r6rs.org/implementations.html 03:22:28 hre we are 03:22:33 azathoth99, the (lambda (xs) (apply pps xs)) is actually very important 03:22:40 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 03:23:20 if pps is a function which takes 3 arguments, then (lambda (xs) (apply pp xs)) is a function which takes one list of 3 values and does the same 03:23:47 hm 03:24:30 -!- LinearInterpol [~RJones@cpe-76-178-249-81.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:25:27 whats the xs? 03:25:41 -!- fire [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:26:27 Just a variable name 03:26:34 -!- ijp [~user@host86-184-83-158.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has left #scheme 03:26:36 A convention to denote a list of arbitrary values 03:26:49 You can replace xs with anything 03:26:53 k 03:26:58 As in 'multipe x-es' 03:27:14 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:27:17 It's originally from Haskell and many schemers still deplore the convention, scheme traditionally used 'lst' or 'lyst' 03:28:32 fire [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has joined #scheme 03:29:50 -!- Rodya_ [~trav@2601:b:c400:8de:7165:4191:30bc:ff7a] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:30:09 Rodya_ [~trav@2601:b:c400:8de:7165:4191:30bc:ff7a] has joined #scheme 03:32:57 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:37:41 worked! 03:40:21 why odesnt map do it by itself tho? 03:43:51 -!- whichdoiuse [8a1a4135@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.26.65.53] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:45:45 azathoth99, well 03:45:54 pps takes 3 arguments 03:45:59 Not a list of 3 arugments 03:46:18 Which is what you need for the map to work, so I wrapped that function around it to make it take a list of 3 arguments 03:46:51 ah 03:46:56 interesting 03:49:37 savagryyyy!!! 03:49:44 see the latest cheetos commercial?? 03:56:44 azathoth99, can you see what (lambda (xs) (apply any-function xs)) does? 03:57:50 yep 03:58:19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSZBdxWAaPQ 03:58:59 -!- fire [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has quit 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06:45:41 it is said that teaching introductory CS courses in university using the functional programming paradigm (typically with Scheme) is said to even out the playing field in the beginning (because a lot whiz kids have never did any functional programming). Do you think this is true? I thought Scheme was a piece of cake. 06:56:43 -!- Giomancer [~gio@107.201.206.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:58:35 -!- kilimanjaro_ is now known as kilimanjaro 06:58:42 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@thalassa.feralhosting.com] has quit [Changing host] 06:58:42 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 07:00:59 bicgena: idk, but it seems suitable for that 07:01:17 defanor: why do you think so 07:01:54 bicgena: scheme is quite minimal, which makes it easier to learn 07:02:08 and to concentrate on other things than the language itself 07:03:19 for some people it could be hard to switch from imperative to functional programming though. but for others it could be just opposite 07:03:44 not sure about those who just learn programming 07:18:10 fire [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has joined #scheme 07:23:42 omefire [~omefire@c-50-159-45-177.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:30:53 I taught couple of people who never programmed before. They were able to begin programming much faster in lisp-family languages then in C-family language. 07:30:55 mmc1 [~michal@j212115.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 07:31:02 -!- fire [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 07:32:35 The most important thing is amount of suprpise. Scheme will not surprise you a lot which I see as a good thing. In PHP/C/C++/JS when you teach somebody, you introduce new and new syntax for days. 07:41:29 weie [~weie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 07:46:27 -!- mmc1 [~michal@j212115.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:57:32 -!- karswell` [~user@13.194.189.80.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:02 FunkyDrummer [~RageOfTho@unaffiliated/rageofthou] has joined #scheme 08:00:59 mmc1 [~michal@88.128.80.6] has joined #scheme 08:01:56 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@88.131.62.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:02:11 juxovec [~juxovec@88.131.62.43] has joined #scheme 08:07:43 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has quit [Quit: MichaelRaskin] 08:13:45 bicgena scheme is a good teaching language because you can explain pretty much every concept about programming languages in it. How are you supposed to explain inner functions when using C as an example. 08:14:32 "they exist, but we don't have them here, also, this is how lambda lifting works which is completely possible in our language but it doesn't have it." 08:19:35 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:22:04 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 08:22:54 ouie [~weie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 08:24:05 -!- weie [~weie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:24:43 -!- mmc1 [~michal@88.128.80.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:27:17 -!- Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:32:30 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:33:59 -!- ramn_` is now known as ramn 08:34:02 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #scheme 08:34:30 -!- ramn [~ramnbip]@50.57.170.59] has left #scheme 08:39:40 -!- Guest53481 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[~RJones@WatchGuard.ellsworth-hs.ellsworth.k12.me.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:24:14 kuribas [~user@d54C54CAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 17:28:23 certaint1 [~david@www1.d-coded.de] has joined #scheme 17:28:37 juxovec [~juxovec@81.30.228.98] has joined #scheme 17:32:48 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@81.30.228.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:33:41 contrapumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 17:34:21 -!- certainty [~david@www1.d-coded.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:34:22 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:34:22 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:34:43 anyone ever build a web broswer in scheme? 17:40:14 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 17:41:17 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 17:42:40 azathoth99: An actual rendering engine, or just a wrapper for an existing one ? 17:43:11 whole shebang 17:43:15 I dunno 17:43:22 I guess some places wrap webkit.. 17:43:42 I doubt it. A WebKit wrapper OTOH should be easy given a good FFI. 17:43:42 przl_ [~przlrkt@p5DCA3881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:43:56 There's an abundant amount of WebKit-wrapping minimalist browsers around. 17:44:16 tinhead_ [uid19091@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pdfhdlbzmojyplxy] has joined #scheme 17:44:21 -!- Ogion__ [~Ogion@6.Red-81-34-51.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:46:47 bicgena_ [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-humfuoqqdvvahfpg] has joined #scheme 17:47:12 gazoombo_ [sid6629@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cqmplphhiouaoabz] has joined #scheme 17:47:24 Ogion [~Ogion@93.Red-81-39-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 17:47:38 hm 17:47:47 :( 17:47:47 -!- Ogion [~Ogion@93.Red-81-39-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:48:06 CADD_ [uid21876@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wctpixucndbktwpz] has joined #scheme 17:48:25 Ogion [~Ogion@93.Red-81-39-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 17:50:51 Kruppe- [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 17:50:52 -!- bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-juydmuhpyvdjqyrq] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:50:52 -!- gluegadget [sid22336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vgfhclgngztlparb] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:50:54 -!- tinhead [uid19091@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-noozykvuujqqlikh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:50:56 -!- erider [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:50:56 -!- vishesh [~vishesh@103.30.140.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:50:59 -!- githogori_ [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:50:59 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:00 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:00 -!- Guest99859 [~jao@215.132.14.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:00 -!- gazoombo [sid6629@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wnlgzgrrjrofiawu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:01 -!- CADD [uid21876@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ukxbjokcwwtzhwco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:01 -!- dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:05 -!- tinhead_ is now known as tinhead 17:51:42 -!- CADD_ is now known as CADD 17:51:45 erider [~chatzilla@pool-74-103-38-84.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:51:53 vishesh [~vishesh@103.30.140.24] has joined #scheme 17:52:15 gluegadget [sid22336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hxfksorgiaaqkfab] has joined #scheme 17:52:26 -!- gazoombo_ is now known as gazoombo 17:52:28 githogori_ [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:52:30 -!- gluegadget [sid22336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hxfksorgiaaqkfab] has quit [Changing host] 17:52:30 gluegadget [sid22336@unaffiliated/gluegadget] has joined #scheme 17:52:30 -!- gluegadget [sid22336@unaffiliated/gluegadget] has quit [Changing host] 17:52:31 gluegadget [sid22336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hxfksorgiaaqkfab] has joined #scheme 17:52:39 Guest99859 [~jao@215.132.14.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 17:52:41 dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 17:53:42 azathoth99: in case bindings are acceptable, there's http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/webkit 17:54:01 LinearInterpol [~RJones@cpe-76-178-249-81.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:54:21 -!- Ogion [~Ogion@93.Red-81-39-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:54:28 -!- LinearInterpol [~RJones@cpe-76-178-249-81.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:54:33 (I've never used it, though) 17:54:41 LinearInterpol [~RJones@cpe-76-178-249-81.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:56:32 www.prevayler.org ever ported to scheme? 17:57:46 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:56 -!- LinearInterpol is now known as {} 17:59:01 -!- {} is now known as LinearInterpol 18:00:17 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 18:01:30 DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@rrcs-76-79-65-218.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:04:25 DeathByDoubleD-1 [~DeathByDo@157.254.210.30] has joined #scheme 18:05:00 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:06:23 -!- DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@rrcs-76-79-65-218.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:08:33 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:08:36 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has joined #scheme 18:09:40 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-74-103-38-84.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:41 -!- dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:43 dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 18:10:08 -!- ogamita [~t@tru75-h02-31-38-72-69.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:11:45 erider [~chatzilla@pool-74-103-38-84.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:15:56 -!- tenq|away is now known as tenq 18:21:50 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 18:22:21 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD56B02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:22:36 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:23:02 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-197-212.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:23:29 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-171-207.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:24:13 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #scheme 18:24:20 -!- bicgena_ is now known as bicgena 18:24:41 I know it is cool that you can code up eval in lisp....BUT...is there any ever practical use for using eval in a program? 18:26:23 theseb: custom or standard eval? 18:26:52 theseb: smth like rpc, for example 18:27:28 and loading settings from a file, or from a command line 18:27:48 i mean, not only settings, but a configuration script 18:28:03 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-74-103-38-84.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:28:03 erider [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider] has joined #scheme 18:28:42 defanor: standard. 18:29:00 I use a virtual FS where requests are translated into code when they are submitted and the this code answers to filesystem calls as they arrive 18:29:22 It is in Common Lisp, but it doesn't matter in general 18:30:02 theseb: http://blog.racket-lang.org/2011/10/on-eval-in-dynamic-languages-generally.html 18:30:03 http://tinyurl.com/62xs38x 18:30:05 there's also emacs full of similar stuff, talking of other lisps 18:30:24 In general, `eval' should be avoided, but it does have uses. 18:30:49 A good rule of thumb: don't use `eval' unless you know why you shouldn't use it. 18:44:18 areckx [6ce69dd4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.230.157.212] has joined #scheme 18:44:32 what's a good compiler for archlinux? 18:44:39 stalin 18:44:48 yipsilon 18:45:22 -!- fire [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 18:45:22 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-eozqdipmpxfsqhrm] has joined #scheme 18:45:24 areckx: I use Racket. 18:45:46 stamourv: what about scm? is that good for educational purposes? 18:46:42 areckx: I wouldn't recommend it. 18:46:54 stamourv: racket 5.3.6-2 A programming language environment (formerly known as PLT Scheme) suitable for tasks ranging from scripting to application development 18:47:04 For educational purposes, check out the Racket teaching languages, and the HTDP textbook (freely available online). 18:47:09 I think I'll use Racket, thanks 18:47:33 -!- certaint1 [~david@www1.d-coded.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:47:33 -!- tupi [~user@189.60.18.177] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:47:45 certainty [~david@www1.d-coded.de] has joined #scheme 18:47:47 tupi [~user@189.60.18.177] has joined #scheme 18:48:03 stamourv: I am going throught the MIT course with the video series https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE18841CABEA24090 18:48:59 stamourv: I will checkout the racket teaching languages and htdp as well 18:49:29 These video lectures arepretty dated, not sure they're the best place to start. 18:49:30 stamourv: http://htdp.org/2003-09-26/Book/ ? 18:49:46 Try Gregor Kiczales's lectures, based on HTDP. He's great! 18:49:58 I was recommended the video series in #archlinux because it teaches the fundamentals of programming 18:50:12 Yep, that's the first edition. The second edition (not entirely complete, but usable) is available here: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/ 18:50:17 and I am learning a lot, actually, I will keep the other resources in mind, thank you so much 18:50:23 nice 18:50:31 Some people really like SICP, but I'm not a fan myself. 18:51:34 stamourv: I'm really liking it and I'm just in the intro 18:51:42 taking lots of notes 18:52:12 thank you for the resources, I will come back here if I need additional assistance 18:53:02 -!- areckx [6ce69dd4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.230.157.212] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:57:41 btw, i have never tried racket, but typed racket seems nice. it's written that it's a family of languages, hence the question: is r5rs in that family, and is r7rs going to be there? 18:59:44 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:13 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:01:19 -!- dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:20 -!- erider [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:02:26 defanor: Racket has R5RS and R6RS implementations. There are no plans for R7RS. 19:02:43 R7RS has not seen wide adoption, and is prettu controversial anyway. 19:03:03 -!- Guest99859 [~jao@215.132.14.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:03:39 stamourv: huh? i thought that at least it's 'small' part is going to be implemented widely 19:04:03 stamourv: and what about types? which languages are in that 'typed' family of racket? 19:04:32 Re R7RS small: Dunno, apart from chibi, are there any implementations? I don't know of any. 19:05:08 stamourv: chicken is preparing one, afaik 19:05:15 Re types: there's Typed Racket, which has a type system specially designed to accomodate Racket idioms. There's also PLAI-typed, which I think is closer to ML. There may be others too. 19:05:28 and there's some TODO for guile 19:06:12 got it, thanks 19:06:17 erider [~chatzilla@pool-74-103-38-84.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:06:17 dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 19:06:21 btw, what's controversial about r7rs? 19:06:47 (there really isn't any point in adding types for R5RS or R7RS, considering that if you write types it's no longer portable, the only reason you'd write in those) 19:07:35 -!- dan64 is now known as Guest95439 19:07:47 defanor: In many regards, it's a step back from R6RS, which it almost completely disregards. 19:07:48 asumu: the reason is to write in familiar language, only with nice types added to it 19:08:11 -!- erider [~chatzilla@pool-74-103-38-84.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:08:11 erider [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider] has joined #scheme 19:08:55 why does 7 not build upon 6? 19:09:01 stamourv: but wasn't r6rs controversial itself? i thought that that's why they decided to make "small" part closer to r5rs, and separate "large" part 19:11:02 Except that the large part will never happen. 19:11:20 sounds pessimistic 19:12:06 And even for certain things that would belong to the "small" part, R6 was an improvement. For example, it was a lot more thorough about specifying edge cases (which is a *must* for writing portable code). 19:12:41 R7 goes back to underspecifying things, which is a big step backwards. 19:13:25 but it's large part should specify some of them, if i understand it right 19:14:42 Not sure that would make sense. That would mean that, e.g. `map' would be defined in the small version, and its edge cases in "large"? 19:15:35 smth like that, probably. but i don't know 19:16:25 at least, for example, full numeric tower is not required by small, but will be required by large, iirc 19:16:44 That's a different story, and a bit more sensible, IMO. 19:16:58 Underspecification is what I'm not happy about. 19:17:23 Well, scratch that, I'm not not happy about it, since I don't care anyway. 19:18:07 areckx: asumu just pointed me to this new set of videos: http://www.cs.utah.edu/~mflatt/htdp-lite/ 19:18:13 Oh, he's gone. 19:22:11 stamourv, hey, I didn't realize my heuristic for when to use EVAL caught on. Where did you get it from? 19:22:39 Riastradh: Not sure. May have gotten it from you. 19:22:59 It seems to be the general rule floating around Racketland. 19:23:20 stamourv: i like your racket link...i've really come to respect the Racket guys...i think they are doing the most to really make Scheme THEE educational language 19:25:01 good rcekt to be in 19:25:03 eh 19:25:16 i want them to port www.prevayler.org to scheme 19:25:21 obsolete the sql db 19:25:35 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:27:34 theseb: A large part of the point, though, is that it's precisely *not* about teaching Scheme. 19:27:46 Scheme (or Racket for that matter) is way too big for teaching. 19:28:01 As is any mainstream language. 19:28:21 Language subsetting is really the key of the approach. 19:28:34 I recommend the video of Matthias Felleisen's ICFP 2010 keynote. 19:28:37 *stamourv* looks up the link. 19:29:11 http://vimeo.com/16540023 19:29:36 stamourv: yes....good point 19:33:55 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:34:20 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:54 Ogion [~Ogion@203.Red-83-57-115.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:39:54 stamourv: i want to watch all his vids and teach his TeachScheme curriculum 19:41:46 -!- tenq is now known as tenq|away 19:42:27 He's an excellent teacher. 19:43:12 Matthew Flatt's videos, which I've linked to above, use the same curriculum, and he's also an excellent teacher. 19:43:22 annodomini [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 19:43:22 -!- annodomini [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:43:22 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 19:43:54 stamourv: iirc there was a MOOC on how to use his curriculum 19:44:54 Yep, Gregor Kiczales at UBC. He's also awesome. 19:46:55 stamourv: i teach AP Computer Science which mandates ending with Java....I was thinking of this progression......Logo -> Scheme -> Python -> Java 19:47:41 stamourv: my thought was to let them play with Logo for a bit....then use many concepts in Scheme w/o bothering with syntax issues...then slowly ease into syntax with Python and Java 19:47:53 stamourv: seems like a win 19:48:18 Scheme -> Java is what we teach here at NEU. Seems to work. 19:49:22 As a replacement for logo, have you looked at the bootstrap curriculum? 19:49:32 stamourv: yea.....i'm hoping to write a minimal Python that compiles to scheme....i thought it would be cool to say....look....it looks different but you can think of basic python as scheme in disguise! 19:49:41 http://www.bootstrapworld.org/ 19:49:49 It's used in middle schools. 19:49:56 stamourv: haven't heard of that...lemmie check...I've heard of Scratch 19:50:25 Has a bit higher floor than Scratch, but much higher ceiling. 19:50:47 stamourv: oh wow....thanks for that link...I've been thinking along those lines recently.....combining math with programming 19:51:08 Yep, pretty cool idea. 19:51:11 stamourv: seen this?.. http://computerbasedmath.org/ or Conrad Wolfram's TED talk? 19:51:25 talks bootstrap to the next level 19:51:28 s/talks/takes 19:51:52 Hadn't seen it. Looks promising. 19:52:25 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@p5DCA3881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:53:44 wolfram talks a lot of shit 19:53:52 about how hes reinventing the net and data 19:53:57 lets see it working bro 19:54:04 ennuf adademic arrogant bablle 19:54:12 in usa its liek shoiw me 19:54:14 baby 19:54:30 usa knowd we are way wya ahead of euope in living standard and economy 19:54:35 and women 19:54:38 azathoth99: Different Wolfram. 19:54:41 :) 19:54:51 its ok i love ranting anyway 19:56:14 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD56B02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:01:18 wolfram beta 20:10:45 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-25-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:13:32 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C54CAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:23:55 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:28:38 http://computerbasedmath.org/ has a really nice goal; it kept angering me to no end that in Turkish education (and I suppose most countries) teaching a core concept in maths tends to take a tiny amount of time compared to the time that's spent on rote-memorization of tricks and formulas for solving more and more obscured problems based on the same concept. Students end up having no idea what the concept could actually be applied to 20:28:38 outside of the contrived imaginary problems. 20:29:31 teaching kids things that calculator can do is kinda wsteful 20:29:38 I dropped out after the second year of high-school and started to study computer science. Couldn't be doing better right now (though it might not be advisable to everyone). 20:30:05 things liek business and programming more useful and productive along with mass produced housing, manufacturing, and experimettal proff science 20:30:29 government school is jsut welfare for teachers who dont produce and a net less 20:30:32 er loss 20:30:47 azathoth99: I don't think learning to program is learning "things that a calculator can do." :P 20:31:14 (Well, in a sense it is, but in that definition it's certainly not a waste at all.) 20:31:24 quite right 20:31:36 I said doing math by hand is 20:31:47 programming is much more interesting 20:31:50 and productive 20:32:42 FYI: azathoth99 is gavino. 20:33:12 -!- azathoth99 is now known as gavino-inthefles 20:33:15 :) 20:33:17 aye aye 20:35:44 -!- Kruppe- [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20:36:37 Surprisingly comprehensible today ... 20:37:21 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 20:38:37 well I am a genius 20:38:56 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:40:58 hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 20:42:04 bouahahaha 20:45:34 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20:46:58 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 20:54:18 zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 20:55:11 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20:55:31 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 20:56:35 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 20:57:25 waxysubs [hope4@world.peace.net] has joined #scheme 20:57:59 jeapostrophe [~jay@207.30.192.168] has joined #scheme 20:57:59 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@207.30.192.168] has quit [Changing host] 20:58:00 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 20:59:01 Guest99859 [~jao@108.172.14.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 21:04:22 -!- gavino-inthefles is now known as lisp-genius 21:10:43 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:14:42 yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has joined #scheme 21:21:20 rgc_ [~user@95.Red-83-33-70.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:23:34 -!- ouie [~weie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:26:43 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 21:27:18 Giomancer [~gio@107.201.206.230] has joined #scheme 21:28:12 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 21:30:00 ASau [~user@p5083D905.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:34:43 jcowan [~John@earth.ccil.org] has joined #scheme 21:34:58 :) 21:35:20 lets cut gov spending 80% and end all pensions 21:38:50 -!- lisp-genius is now known as sycorax 21:41:38 -!- FunkyDrummer [~RageOfTho@unaffiliated/rageofthou] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:49:57 -!- davexunit [~user@38.104.7.18] has quit [Quit: Later] 21:57:44 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:57:59 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has left #scheme 22:03:07 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD56B02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:07:11 suddenly, politics 22:07:33 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:09:21 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD9343C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:09:50 taylanub [tub@p4FD91685.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:10:38 elly: can you kick sycorax/lisp-genius/gavino-inthefles/... 22:10:57 should I be? Riastradh was around earlier and didn't 22:11:19 elly: i don't know what the gavino-kicking policy is 22:11:23 wotybah 22:11:24 haha 22:11:38 As soon as he gets repetitive, is what I've observed. 22:11:47 joneshf-work [~joneshf@98.238.144.159] has joined #scheme 22:11:56 alright, I'll keep an eye out 22:15:04 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@98.238.144.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24:07 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 22:25:19 joneshf-work [~joneshf@c-98-238-144-159.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:26:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-231-40.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:48 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-197-96.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:30:13 cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-94-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 22:36:38 aranhoide [~aranhoide@49.Red-79-157-1.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:36:52 truncate [~vishesh@103.30.140.179] has joined #scheme 22:38:48 -!- vishesh [~vishesh@103.30.140.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:41:20 vishesh [~vishesh@103.30.140.153] has joined #scheme 22:42:31 -!- truncate [~vishesh@103.30.140.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:47:30 -!- Guest99859 [~jao@108.172.14.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:49:03 -!- tupi [~user@189.60.18.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:50:46 davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has joined #scheme 22:52:30 -!- vishesh [~vishesh@103.30.140.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:01:40 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:02:12 hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 23:06:13 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:27:16 -!- davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has quit [Quit: Later] 23:28:31 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #scheme 23:29:02 davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has joined #scheme 23:29:09 people say an evaluation takes place in the context of an environment but really it also takes places in the context of a set of macros right 23:29:17 ? 23:29:30 so really there are 2 "context objects" to deal with 23:30:25 yes? 23:34:36 the environment contains both. There are several namespaces and scopes in an environment. 23:35:16 ah...oops..silly me then...thanks 23:37:41 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD56B02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:48:38 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD56B02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 23:49:18 -!- DeathByDoubleD-1 is now known as DeathByDoubleDip