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ZZZzzz] 19:11:51 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD6374D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:28:52 Shadox [~Shadox@66-227-192-169.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 19:28:58 akenisuto [~akenisuto@HSI-KBW-37-209-74-126.hsi15.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #scheme 19:29:15 -!- hcnewsom [~user@38.98.105.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:29:34 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:40 hcnewsom [~user@38.98.105.130] has joined #scheme 19:38:07 LinearInterpol [~RJones@bb-216-195-185-231.gwi.net] has joined #scheme 19:43:03 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:47:26 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 20:00:27 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 20:03:54 jeapostrophe [~jay@216-21-162-70.slc.googlefiber.net] has joined #scheme 20:03:54 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@216-21-162-70.slc.googlefiber.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:03:54 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 20:05:21 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:07:43 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A6AC2E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:09:49 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 20:12:05 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-25-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:12:39 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #scheme 20:12:56 anyone think this is interesting/surprising?... http://pastebin.com/m7mbrApA 20:13:26 free variable values aren't "frozen" at the time of function creation....rather...the values of those free variables can continue to change AFTER function creation!?!?! 20:13:30 freaky 20:13:51 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD6374D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:13:59 (If function creation froze variable values...you'd expect (f 10) to return 11 instead of 12 fwiw) 20:15:29 The locations, not the values, are `frozen'. Also, note redefinition is intended as a development/debugging feature, so that you can fix code and type C-M-x in Emacs; you should use SET! instead. 20:16:29 rudybot: eval (define (make-cell v) (cons (lambda () v) (lambda (v*) (set! v v*)))) 20:16:30 Riastradh: your sandbox is ready 20:16:30 Riastradh: Done. 20:16:35 rudybot: eval (define (cell-value c) ((car c))) 20:16:35 Riastradh: Done. 20:16:41 rudybot: eval (define (set-cell-value! c v) ((cdr c) v)) 20:16:41 Riastradh: Done. 20:16:45 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:16:50 rudybot: eval (let ((c (make-cell 0))) (set-cell-value! c 1) (cell-value c)) 20:16:50 Riastradh: ; Value: 1 20:26:17 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 20:33:46 Riastradh: how would using set! instead of define change things? 20:33:56 tcsc [~tcsc@c-76-127-240-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:34:02 Riastradh: yes i know set! is to modify existing vars 20:34:25 Riastradh: actually....it would almost make sense for that code to produce an ERROR 20:34:30 since it is redefining y 20:34:35 So does DEFINE. 20:34:36 nice catch 20:34:40 As I said: it's a debugging feature. 20:34:57 Riastradh: wait...if define can take the place of set! then why is set! needed? 20:35:38 It's a debugging feature and it works only at the top level. 20:36:00 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:37:54 Riastradh: wait...sorry..what is a debugging feature that works only at top level? (and how do you know scheme so well ? :) 20:38:56 It's a debugging feature that DEFINE of an existing variable is equivalent to SET!. 20:40:04 palach [~palach@92.55.10.190] has joined #scheme 20:43:51 Riastradh: ah 20:44:08 Riastradh: is there anything like www.prevayler.org for scheme? 20:44:10 Riastradh: i may have voted for that to return an error 20:44:17 if I was on scheme committee 20:45:02 That would be reasonable as long as implementors make sure C-M-x still works. 20:51:20 HectorAE [~Panhuman@c-24-0-88-68.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:56:00 lambda 20:59:11 -!- davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has quit [Quit: Later] 21:00:04 -!- DeathByDoubleD-1 [~DeathByDo@157.254.210.31] has quit [Quit: DeathByDoubleD-1] 21:01:52 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:03:35 -!- palach [~palach@92.55.10.190] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 21:08:52 bars0 [~Name@d143-96.icpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 21:10:47 Big news! I have found the simplest quine possible in Scheme. 21:10:55 It is EOF. 21:11:40 i.e. an empty file 21:15:37 so is there a prevayler.org implementation on scheme yet? 21:15:39 :) 21:16:00 No. Go away and write one. 21:16:01 or say something like happstacks version of prevayler? 21:16:12 what db do you use Riastradh ? 21:16:38 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A6AC2E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:16:45 I use a pad of paper and a pen. 21:17:38 HectorAE: This was done for IOCCC in 94 as well: http://www.ioccc.org/1994/smr.hint 21:17:39 so you dont run any long running dynamic content websites? 21:17:41 at all? 21:17:46 hmm 21:18:51 I <3 quines. 21:19:18 Of course, in Scheme, a single character is enough: 0 21:19:35 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-wsatjyftdclyggwe] has joined #scheme 21:20:21 No actually it isn't. 21:20:28 rudybot: eval 0 21:20:28 Riastradh: ; Value: 0 21:20:35 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A6AC2E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:20:47 If you do $ echo 0 > 0file; guile 0file 21:20:53 It doesn't output 0. 21:21:52 That's just a property of REPL 21:21:57 *shrug* Different representation level. If you want to rule out 0, you have to rule out the standard ((lambda (x) `(,x ',x)) '(lambda (x) `(,x ',x))). 21:22:09 DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@rrcs-76-79-65-218.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:22:17 -!- weie [~weie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:22:25 Refusing to call that a quine is a counterinsightful exercise in technicality. 21:23:46 All I'm saying is the REPL changes things. 21:23:58 Lots of other languages don't have one 21:24:15 No, you're quibbling about a technicality of representation. 21:24:17 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-28.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 21:25:25 REPL or not, evaluating the Scheme program 0 gives the value 0. 21:25:51 The definition of a quine is a program that prints itself out, not a program that evaluates to itself inside another program 21:26:06 All the I/O is being handled by the REPL 21:27:05 Well, you can worry about I/O and standard output and file descriptor 1 all you want, but it doesn't add any insight to the concept that ((lambda (x) `(,x 'x)) '(lambda (x) `(,x ',x))) neatly illustrates. 21:29:47 Okay, then. It is very cool. 21:34:23 -!- bars0 [~Name@d143-96.icpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:40:26 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 21:41:25 Riastradh: so im forced to use psotgresql with scheme for websites? no alternatives? 21:42:32 love-cash: I have sqlite bindings for MIT/GNU Scheme, and there are probably others for other implementations 21:47:20 yeah I mean I see postgresql binding for chicken / awful, but what about something to replace a sql db? like prevayler or happstack acidstate? 21:47:38 build it as you need it 21:47:41 I think artanis guile talks to sqlite and psotgresql too.. 21:47:51 I havent built anything like that b4.. 21:47:53 :( 21:47:54 i've done something like active record for scheme records for my use case 21:54:39 -!- LinearInterpol [~RJones@bb-216-195-185-231.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:09:50 DeathByDoubleD-1 [~DeathByDo@157.254.210.31] has joined #scheme 22:12:39 -!- DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@rrcs-76-79-65-218.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:13:20 -!- noobboob [uid5587@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xydwvzlxssletfov] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:14:11 what ina nutshell is active record? 22:14:23 its not an orm right? 22:14:55 -!- ggherdov [sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vwmpyawduhezrfam] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:15:41 -!- kwmiebach [uid16855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rwywhfwejlzezpau] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:15:55 love-cash: mostly it is, i believe. 22:16:31 -!- HectorAE [~Panhuman@c-24-0-88-68.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has left #scheme 22:16:43 www.prevayler.org I think this is future 22:16:49 log update 22:16:52 data in ram 22:17:07 use it :) 22:17:25 maybe even user level apps, communicating over network, acting asa cluster, and programmabe, apaceh cassandra is kinda going in prevayler direction 22:18:06 -!- wilfredh [sid159@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lfciojhfwphyrjct] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 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has joined #scheme 22:44:10 -!- tinhead [uid19091@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ierbsaxryxdrdoms] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:44:46 -!- ggherdov [sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bexiwpubxgkiknhe] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:45:52 hatFolk [~hatFolk@ip68-100-231-112.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 22:46:21 sicp link broken above 22:47:13 that one? works for me: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ 22:47:29 interesting 22:47:34 itdeostn for m3 22:47:38 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ works 22:47:42 but one above 22:48:18 tinhead [uid19091@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fnbiubtpedlmpxcn] has joined #scheme 22:48:19 I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying... which link doesn't work? 22:48:38 when I click on that one 22:48:43 it brings a long a " 22:48:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-230-231.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:48 and jacks up the url 22:48:48 which one is "that one"? 22:48:50 interesting 22:48:55 the sicp 22:49:05 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ 22:49:36 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD6374D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:49:45 -!- amz3 [~amirouche@AMarseille-653-1-113-187.w2-4.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 22:49:46 as I said, it certainly works, must be a problem with your IRC client or browser 22:50:30 im on frebsd with webchat.freenode.net 22:50:31 hm 22:50:40 link by itself is fine 22:50:53 not sure why clicking on it brings along an extra " 22:50:54 hmm 22:58:34 ggherdov [sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xcquqnfiloqxuxho] has joined #scheme 23:01:09 -!- dpk [uid15387@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gxhuwaazrohskcca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:01:28 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:12 LinearInterpol [~RJones@cpe-76-178-249-81.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:02:52 dpk [uid15387@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gpquvkmetgcexojh] has joined #scheme 23:03:00 -!- dpk is now known as Guest54188 23:03:27 davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has joined #scheme 23:03:45 -!- ggherdov [sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xcquqnfiloqxuxho] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:07:33 UltimateEyePatch [~nevzets@unaffiliated/nevzets] has joined #scheme 23:08:55 So I was just making an algorithm which answers if n lists are sequentially ordered and it made me wonder, shouldn't compariations (cmp x y ...) in scheme answer #t if x y ... are strictly ordered 0 if non strictly and #f otherwise? 23:09:14 As in (<= 1 2 3 3 4) should be 0, not #t 23:09:17 At least, it makes my algorithm easier. 23:09:19 yuno123 [b8aa0dde@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.170.13.222] has joined #scheme 23:09:41 -!- DeathByDoubleD-1 is now known as DeathByDoubleDip 23:09:45 whats the name of a good math book to have as a reference for sicp? 23:10:06 reference for siicp? 23:10:10 What do you mean 23:10:48 i mean. where can i look if i want to read up on big O notation 23:11:08 Big O notation considered harmful. 23:11:24 That said ehh, probably everywhere, it's a pretty common and flawed notation to express a pretty simple concept. 23:12:20 Im also after proofs, differentiation and integrals .it would save me a lot of time if they were all in a single book 23:12:55 Well, proof theory and analysis are completely differnet subjects so they seldom end up in one book 23:14:00 what is harmful about it 23:16:35 It's the most blatant abuse of notation that has ever existed. 23:16:45 -!- LinearInterpol [~RJones@cpe-76-178-249-81.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:17:06 Surely if f = O(n) and g = O(n) then f = g, not to mention that n is a free variable here, what it stands for, nobody knows. 23:17:11 LinearInterpol [~RJones@cpe-76-178-249-81.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:17:26 THe way to make it proper is f in O(\x.x^2) for instance 23:17:46 Where we say that O is a higher order function which takes in a unary function and returns a complexity class based on it. 23:23:13 ggherdov [sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nhggovjrdwrimcah] has joined #scheme 23:23:45 books are cool 23:24:11 so each added variable cuts at least in half the data search needed for a set 23:24:13 interesting 23:26:49 You mean sets implemented as binary search trees? 23:31:32 erider [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider] has joined #scheme 23:32:07 -!- Guest54188 is now known as dpk 23:32:12 -!- hcnewsom [~user@38.98.105.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:35:44 UltimateEyePatch: having O,  etc return sets is actually what I've seen used thus far 23:35:55 i.e. f  O(nē) 23:36:41 (I guess the point about n being a free variable still stands though) 23:36:51 well if the variable is not binary but multi valued 23:36:59 could cut liek search set into 8 if 8 values 23:37:06 reducing search time 23:39:12 -!- bars0 [~Name@d143-96.icpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:40:36 -!- akenisuto [~akenisuto@HSI-KBW-37-209-74-126.hsi15.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Bye] 23:46:48 FireFly, that notation is also abusive though 23:47:03 The only way it can be made to work is f in O(\n.nē) 23:47:11 Or just f in O(square) 23:47:36 Yeah, fair point 23:47:43 Indeed 23:47:49 so, whom shall we executed for this grave offence? 23:49:47 obama 23:49:48 ? 23:50:00 YES 23:50:04 Set an example of out him 23:50:13 Let blood flow before the eyes of the people that they never repeat it again. 23:50:26 Rule by fear, by threat of violence. 23:51:53 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 23:53:19 xnil [~xnil@host-92-4-141-132.as43234.net] has joined #scheme 23:56:11 -!- UltimateEyePatch [~nevzets@unaffiliated/nevzets] has left #scheme 23:56:38 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]