00:00:34 alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD60006.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 00:02:55 Emi` [~Emi`@200.sub-174-251-208.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 00:06:19 -!- Emi` [~Emi`@200.sub-174-251-208.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:07:11 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:15 Emi` [~Emi`@200.sub-174-251-208.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 00:10:21 Hey hey 00:11:03 -!- Emi` is now known as Emi 00:15:35 -!- rgc [~user@96.Red-79-155-119.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:54 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 00:23:39 -!- langmartin [~langmarti@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:43:46 groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #scheme 00:49:02 -!- alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD60006.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:54:25 -!- ntesir [~rnd@31.220.43.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:54:32 ntesir [~rnd@31.220.43.117] has joined #scheme 01:27:43 -!- estevocastro [~estevocas@164.Red-81-32-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:32:09 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:44:22 -!- Emi [~Emi`@200.sub-174-251-208.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:45:21 hey 01:46:29 hey 01:52:07 alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD60006.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 01:57:19 -!- marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 01:58:27 b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 01:59:33 marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has joined #scheme 02:07:50 -!- marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08:09 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 02:09:36 langmartin [~langmarti@host-68-169-154-130.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 02:11:35 marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has joined #scheme 02:12:53 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.34.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:16:14 oxum [~oxum@122.164.138.241] has joined #scheme 02:18:22 weie [~weie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 02:18:45 -!- Stevey [~stevie@220.245.104.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:20:12 -!- b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ] 02:21:42 Stevey [~stevie@220.245.104.218] has joined #scheme 02:22:14 b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 02:25:54 Stevey1 [~stevie@220.245.104.218] has joined #scheme 02:26:12 strobegen [~Adium@188.168.72.236] has joined #scheme 02:26:21 -!- Stevey [~stevie@220.245.104.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:33:04 es [~estevocas@164.Red-81-32-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 02:33:04 -!- es is now known as estevocastro 02:36:00 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@unaffiliated/rageofthou] has joined #scheme 02:39:28 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@unaffiliated/rageofthou] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:41:20 jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 02:53:26 -!- Stevey1 [~stevie@220.245.104.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:57:27 -!- alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD60006.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:57:38 alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD60006.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 03:08:17 -!- vraid [50d8e34d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.216.227.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:12:35 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.138.241] has quit [Quit: ...] 03:15:46 I just attended the 7 Langs/7 Months talk on Julia. It's a very cool language. 03:24:32 -!- tenq is now known as tenq|away 03:24:55 -!- alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD60006.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:26:54 Stevey [~stevie@220.245.104.218] has joined #scheme 03:31:06 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has quit [Quit: MichaelRaskin] 03:32:39 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34:11 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 03:39:11 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:40:53 -!- Stevey [~stevie@220.245.104.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:47:48 Destructive update to bignums can have funny consequences. 03:48:01 https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/404763726852538368 03:53:18 oxum [~oxum@122.164.93.25] has joined #scheme 03:59:10 -!- estevocastro [~estevocas@164.Red-81-32-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:02:49 es [~estevocas@132.Red-83-59-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 04:02:49 -!- es is now known as estevocastro 04:04:10 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 04:08:30 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:17:21 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has left #scheme 04:29:00 -!- langmartin [~langmarti@host-68-169-154-130.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: sleep] 04:30:05 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:42:25 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:42:43 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:55:24 oxum_ [~oxum@122.164.147.43] has joined #scheme 04:55:30 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.93.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:31 -!- oxum_ is now known as oxum 04:56:49 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:00:08 preflex_ [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 05:01:43 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:01:52 -!- preflex_ is now known as preflex 05:04:18 -!- cjh` [chris@segfault.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:04:49 groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #scheme 05:05:05 cjh` [chris@segfault.net.nz] has joined #scheme 05:05:15 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 05:05:54 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:10:23 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:16:58 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:19:10 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:28:40 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-180-166.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:29:23 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-208-226.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 05:54:23 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-208-226.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:59:02 -!- aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:59:48 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #scheme 06:00:36 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #scheme 06:05:51 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Quit: groovy2shoes] 06:05:59 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 06:09:42 what's the use of delay-force? 06:09:49 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:11:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-132.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:12:08 and why would someone want to write (delay (force x))? 06:13:50 cajetanu` [~user@aefn60.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 06:13:51 palach [~palach@93-80-56-189.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 06:13:56 -!- cajetanu` is now known as cajetanus 06:14:00 Consider the following definition of STREAM-FILTER: (define (stream-filter p? s) (if (not (pair? (force s))) (delay '()) (let ((x (car (force s))) (s* (stream-filter p? (cdr (force s))))) (if (p? x) (delay (cons x s*)) s*] 06:14:58 I translated that naively from an obvious definition of FILTER: (define (filter p? l) (if (not (pair? l)) '() (let ((x (car l)) (l* (filter p? (cdr l)))) (if (p? x) (cons x l*) l*] 06:15:06 Does that definition of STREAM-FILTER work? 06:15:57 wait a sec, will copy and format it. hard to read this way 06:21:56 it should not work. at least, in the way it should 06:22:20 But if I take that definition of FILTER and transcribe it in Haskell it does work! 06:23:20 filter p [] = []; filter p (x:xs) = let xs' = filter p xs in if p x then x:xs' else xs' 06:24:02 What's the difference? How could you fix my definition of STREAM-FILTER so it does work, without restructuring it? 06:25:31 haskell is all lazy. i could add delay to s*, and then force s* in the end 06:25:49 *in the end = in the else-clause 06:25:55 jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-104.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:27:12 OK, so you want to do (let ((x ...) (s* (delay ...))) (if (p? x) (delay (cons x s*)) (force s*))? 06:27:44 You'll probably also want to force s* in the then-clause: (let ((x ...) (s* (delay ...))) (if (p? x) (delay (cons x (force s*))) (force s*))) 06:27:45 yes. not sure though 06:29:21 right 06:29:37 Now let's suppose I try this: (stream-filter (lambda (x) (> x 100000)) the-natural-numbers) 06:29:45 How long should it take to evaluate that? 06:29:59 (Note I'm not asking for the car of that; just for the stream itself.) 06:31:32 should be 100000 iterations, but i'm already getting lost in forces and delays 06:31:45 Why? I didn't ask for the car of it. I didn't ask for (force (stream-filter ...)). 06:32:01 oh 06:32:43 um, 1? 06:33:01 Right, it should return immediately. 06:33:30 How could you fix the definition so it does that? 06:35:09 i think it's the time to say 'delay-force!', but trying to figure out why and where 06:36:46 uh, wait a little more, please. will play with it now 06:37:06 I'll give you a gentle hint: You had the right idea of inserting new force and delay pairs, since (force (delay s)) is equivalent to s, always. However, we don't need that so strongly: in our case, s is always a promise itself. 06:37:23 (or, an expression evaluating to a promise) 06:37:57 nonrecursive [~user@adsl-75-53-195-226.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 06:41:44 so, we are adding delay in the else-clause, right? 06:42:40 and getting (delay (force s*)), and there is delay-force to help us. but i still can't see why is it needed here. i think, it's what you've said: s* is promise anyway 06:44:03 we could delay whole (let ..), but then it'll not be possible to use delay-force 06:44:24 i mean, delay will be separated from force 06:45:22 If the expression E yields a promise, but it might take a while to figure out what promise it is, we can always defer figuring out what promise it is by writing (delay (force E)) instead. 06:48:47 what do you mean by 'what promise it is'? 06:49:01 -!- nonrecursive [~user@adsl-75-53-195-226.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:49:26 Is it going to be (delay '()), or (delay (cons x s*))? 06:50:05 (or s* itself) 06:53:13 oh, finally got it 06:53:16 -!- wmj [~user@109.175.56.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:53:16 thanks 06:54:04 So, what should the definition of STREAM-FILTER be? 06:54:23 (Note the story isn't done yet once you put in the right (delay (force ...)) to give the desired amount of laziness!) 06:55:55 playing with it now. maybe got it wrong 06:58:41 -!- estevocastro [~estevocas@132.Red-83-59-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:59:39 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:00:34 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #scheme 07:03:48 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 07:03:58 http://lpaste.net/8414911419102789632 -- smth like this probably. can't find where to use delay-force still 07:04:25 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:04:29 Well, now you're making some nontrivial transformations. 07:04:47 It might help if I tell you to use these definitions: 07:04:50 (define stream-nil (delay '())) 07:05:10 (define-syntax stream-cons (syntax-rules () ((STREAM-CONS a d) (DELAY (CONS a d))))) 07:05:16 (define (stream-car s) (force (car s))) 07:05:20 (define (stream-cdr s) (force (cdr s))) 07:05:28 That way you won't be tempted to pull the DELAYs out. 07:05:40 So you can't take (if ... (delay '()) ...) and turn it into (delay (if ... '() ...)). 07:06:01 will play with them now 07:06:21 But you can do (force (delay stream-nil)) or (delay (force stream-nil)) -- those are OK. 07:08:13 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:13:11 by (force (car s)) you mean (car (force s)), right? 07:13:36 ...yes. 07:13:49 Also: (define (stream-pair? s) (pair? (force s))) 07:14:09 The point is I want you to add delays and forces, not move them around. 07:14:24 got it, trying to 07:15:13 nonrecursive [~user@adsl-75-53-195-226.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 07:23:53 wingo_ [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 07:25:51 -!- wingo_ is now known as wingo 07:29:44 Let me know if you'd like any more hints, or if you just want to play with this and figure it out yourself. 07:32:30 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:32:54 Note the reason I want you to add delays and forces rather than move them around is so that lazy stream code is a mechanical translation of list code. 07:34:43 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:34:44 i'd like to play, thanks 07:36:50 I'm heading to bed shortly, but if you think you have a solution, try it out with (stream-filter (lambda (x) #t) (stream-filter (lambda (x) (> x 100000000)) the-natural-numbers)) -- how long should it take to evaluate that? 07:38:22 Then -- to illustrate (lazy ...) vs (delay (force ...)) -- try evaluating (stream-car (stream-filter (lambda (x) (> x 10000000000)) the-natural-numbers)) with (lazy ...) in your code versus (delay (force ...)) in your code. (Consider setting ulimits or heap limits on your Scheme process to make sure it doesn't eat up your RAM and summon the dreaded oom killer!) 07:39:07 (Those were not hints about where to put (delay (force ...)) to get the desired laziness, as you're playing around with now; rather, they're next steps to consider in the evolution of LAZY.) 07:39:17 (...which for some reason the R7RS authors called DELAY-FORCE.) 07:46:18 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 07:50:27 es [~estevocas@99.Red-83-40-74.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 07:50:27 -!- es is now known as estevocastro 07:56:01 civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has joined #scheme 08:07:02 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has joined #scheme 08:07:02 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has quit [Changing host] 08:07:02 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@unaffiliated/rageofthou] has joined #scheme 08:08:16 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@unaffiliated/rageofthou] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:13:31 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Changing host] 08:13:31 aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has joined #scheme 08:16:18 -!- fds [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:17:59 fds [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 08:22:57 pnkfelix [~Adium@89.202.203.51] has joined #scheme 08:49:22 finished with stream-filter, will now try it with those examples 08:53:23 but i think it simply will take a lot of time with (delay (force ..)) and will be fast with (lazy ..) 08:55:43 -!- estevocastro [~estevocas@99.Red-83-40-74.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:58:04 ken [~this@41.89.164.16] has joined #scheme 08:58:33 -!- ken is now known as Guest89346 08:58:33 -!- ASau` [~user@p54AFFD35.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:19 ASau` [~user@p54AFFD35.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 09:05:02 -!- palach [~palach@93-80-56-189.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 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