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http://paste.lisp.org/display/139599 03:07:53 true-techie: why would they be the same? 03:08:37 nisstyre: i thought they would have the same base case as the first function 03:08:53 the function called arrangements 03:11:01 true-techie: I encourage you to try and work out the algorithm for permutations on paper 03:11:16 then you will probably understand how it works much better 03:11:39 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13:12 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 03:13:50 -!- wilfredh [uid159@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dsjulzjgwycimwzl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:14:11 nisstyre: ill have to find the algorithm first 03:14:29 true-techie: no you don't 03:14:36 true-techie: it's possible to work it out from scratch 03:14:44 and in a reasonable amount of time 03:14:57 -!- davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has quit [Quit: Later] 03:16:12 true-techie: for example, if I give you (list 1 2 3) then you know that you will need 3 lists where 1 is the first element 03:16:17 and likewise for 2 and 3 03:16:34 wilfredh [uid159@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dbycvzyyyfqejbra] has joined #scheme 03:16:54 er, sorry 2 lists where 1 is the first element 03:17:53 '(1 2 3) '(1 3 2) '(2 1 3) '(2 3 1) '(3 1 2) '(3 2 1) 03:19:28 comingtogetyou [~albert@adsl-71-156-32-9.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:20:26 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:21:18 makes sense 03:21:25 true-techie: do you have a decent understanding of how divide and conquer algorithms work? 03:21:34 that's what this is 03:21:40 nisstyre: no 03:21:48 you keep reducing the problem to a smaller version of the same problem 03:22:03 true-techie: ok, say you want to find all of the permutations of '(1 2 3) like above 03:22:26 say you have a function that will pick an element out of the list for each element, and give you that plus the rest of them 03:23:17 e.g. (f '(1 2 3)) => (list (cons 1 (list 2 3)) (cons 2 (list 1 3)) (cons 3 (list 1 2))) 03:23:18 sounds like what recursion is all about 03:23:26 okay, do you understand that? 03:23:45 (cons 1 (list 2 3)) just means a pair where the first thing is 1 and the second thing is a list 03:24:05 yes, i understand recursion 03:24:28 the key step to understanding how to write the permutations algorithm is that you can call your permutations function again on each of those lists 03:24:33 and that they keep getting smaller 03:24:55 then you just take the first element and prepend it to each of them, and so on 03:25:22 can you see how that would generate all permutations for lists of any size? 03:26:10 yes i understand that but i didnt see why the base case was changing in each function 03:31:10 true-techie: try rewriting them to have the same base cases and see if it works 03:34:52 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:36:58 preflex_ [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 03:37:31 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:37:42 -!- preflex_ is now known as preflex 03:38:30 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317643.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 03:45:36 -!- germ13 [~germ13@cpe-75-84-12-100.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:46:38 germ13 [~germ13@cpe-75-84-12-100.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:47:41 -!- jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:48:10 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 03:55:08 jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #scheme 03:55:38 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:19 -!- mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:09:12 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317643.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:12:36 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-145-216.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:16:50 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-69-203-115-132.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:46 -!- comingtogetyou [~albert@adsl-71-156-32-9.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:21:32 juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.61.177] has joined #scheme 04:29:38 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:41:15 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.61.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:41:47 juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.61.177] has joined #scheme 04:45:57 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.61.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:47:17 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #scheme 04:54:30 fightback [~textual@163-116.199-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #scheme 04:54:53 hey #scheme 04:55:13 adiii [~adityavit@c-50-136-206-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:55:14 if I'm using slimv with vim (don't kill me), how do I set it up to run with guile scheme? 04:55:36 I've mostly just gotten by without it until now, so I wanted to try it out 04:58:16 -!- racycle [~racycle@75-25-129-128.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:51 racycle [~racycle@75-25-129-128.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 05:01:16 -!- Giomancer [~gio@107.201.206.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:03:50 -!- racycle [~racycle@75-25-129-128.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:08:49 ah, nevermind, I can map a key to load a REPL using noremap!, which is sufficient for my needs. 05:15:55 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 05:20:15 -!- arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:20:44 -!- fightback [~textual@163-116.199-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 05:22:41 juxovec [~juxovec@188.95.124.227] has joined #scheme 05:26:51 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:35:24 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:35:51 mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 05:50:54 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@188.95.124.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:51:31 juxovec [~juxovec@188.95.124.227] has joined #scheme 05:56:15 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@188.95.124.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:57:47 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:03:32 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-169-181.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:35 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:03:47 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 06:08:06 -!- zzach [~zzach@dslb-088-077-117-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 06:13:39 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:16:35 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 06:22:20 What schemes should I try to get a good reference base of macro systems? 06:22:36 Racket and Chicken come to mind (syntax-case and explicit/implicit renaming) 06:22:37 What else? 06:23:11 In terms of Schemes, I mean 06:23:14 syntactic closures, for example MIT/GNU Scheme has those 06:23:23 (they also have the other macro systems I believe) 06:25:09 ty 06:29:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:30:26 Is the jazzscheme.org website out of date? 06:30:33 It references 2.4 in 2010 06:30:41 I see recent commits and references to 2.8 on GitHub 06:38:17 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 06:39:57 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:44:53 sethalve_ [~user@headache.hungry.com] has joined #scheme 06:45:35 -!- sethalves [~user@headache.hungry.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:46:07 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:50:29 -!- germ13 [~germ13@cpe-75-84-12-100.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:52:20 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:58:57 -!- mrowe is now known as mrowe_away 07:03:08 juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.61.177] has joined #scheme 07:04:32 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #scheme 07:04:55 fightback [~anonymous@public-docking-pat-hg-mapped-0055.ethz.ch] has joined #scheme 07:16:04 -!- true-techie [~chatzilla@72.252.124.67] has left #scheme 07:16:11 -!- fightback [~anonymous@public-docking-pat-hg-mapped-0055.ethz.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:16:24 seasoned-ricer [~chatzilla@72.252.124.67] has joined #scheme 07:16:46 does geiser have a stepper? 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I am trying to evaluate this http://paste.lisp.org/display/139602 in DrRacket. the problem is, the HtdP languages don't seem to understand the '.' operator, while other languages don't like 'foldl' or check-expect. what should I do, or change to get my code being runnable? 09:28:27 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #scheme 09:28:41 . is not an operator, it's a syntax for pairs. In this case, it's used in a lambda list, to collect a variable number of arguments. 09:29:48 right, ok it's not an operator 09:30:02 If you want to eliminate it, instead of calling (plus 1 2 3 4 5 ) you could call (plus '(1 2 3 4 5 )) and write (lambda (objects) (foldl func neutr objects)). 09:30:33 But it would be uglier. So I'd advise the alternative, which is to provide a foldl and a check-expect operator. 09:31:20 but these do already exist for the HtdP languages. why can't I use them? 09:32:07 check-expect is a simple test framework. You could implement it as a function: (define (check-expect result expected) (if (not (equal result expected)) (display "Error result is not expected: ") (display (list 'result result 'expected expected)) (newline))) 09:32:34 I'm more afraid of foldl 09:32:56 anyway, that doesn't answer my question, even if I could re-implement them 09:32:57 Did you specify your file was in the HtdP language? IIRC, something like #lang HtdP ? (or perhaps in lower case I don't know) 09:33:09 gr8: the point of the htdp languages is that you are not supposed to be using these extra things 09:33:16 You asked what you should do to get your code being runnable. 09:33:22 true, true... 09:33:28 Modifying it or adding missing features is a valid answer. 09:33:48 ijp: what do you mean? the book itself uses them 09:33:56 Personnally, I'm not in favor of restricted languages. 09:34:10 gr8: there may be differences between the book and the definition of the racket language. 09:34:13 ogamita: the point is that noobs don't get confusing error messages 09:35:06 ogamita: I meant my second question, "why can't I use them?" 09:35:06 gr8: if you are running an example from the book, in the language it is supposed to be run, and it fails, then you have found a bug 09:35:36 can you point to the example? 09:35:50 ijp: it is just an experiment by me, not in the book 09:37:11 with #lang HtdP it understands foldl, but not '.'. with #lang racket it understands '.', but not foldl 09:37:18 that is my problem 09:37:20 from the documentation, it seems that neither intermediate student, nor advanced student languaegs support rest arguments 09:38:00 gr8: see, you're trying to use things from different languages. 09:38:15 So you will have to choose one language, and implement the missing part or change your code. 09:38:35 and the documentation for lang racket does say that it supports foldl 09:39:07 but not check-expect, since there are other unit testing things for racket 09:39:29 ijp: oh, you are right! 09:39:32 thanks 09:39:34 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD913C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:39:50 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 09:40:10 taylanub [tub@p4FD92DA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 09:41:11 I had the assumption foldl wouldn't work as well 09:42:47 vraid [d91bbc5a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.27.188.90] has joined #scheme 09:59:57 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:26 -!- emma is now known as em 10:11:08 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #scheme 10:18:25 I'm just skipping through SICP (I've read HtdP already)... does the 'accumulate' funcion the same as fold funcions in racket? 10:19:17 sorry for typos 10:21:42 Yes, they're the same. 10:27:02 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 11:17:08 knz_ [~kena@cl-990.ams-05.nl.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 11:18:38 -!- knz [~kena@cl-990.ams-05.nl.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:18:41 heathjs [quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #scheme 11:19:02 -!- C-Keen [cckeen@pestilenz.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:19:02 -!- jkraemer [jkraemer@nat/google/x-oktcxptkrggldsvt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:19:26 -!- heath [quassel@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping 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dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:06:41 dkordic [~danilo@93-87-147-121.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #scheme 18:10:40 cosmez [~cosmez@200.92.100.68] has joined #scheme 18:14:45 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 18:16:20 add^_ [~user@m83-185-23-90.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 18:16:20 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16:40 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 18:18:45 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:20:49 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:21:31 daat418 [~daat@chammerling-mini.xinet.COM] has joined #scheme 18:22:02 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:22:22 rck [~hakujin@c-68-52-135-71.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:22:53 thoughts on scheme (chibischeme?) vs lua as an embedded language in an iOS app? 18:24:16 obviously, this being #scheme, we recommend you use lua 18:24:30 I'm here because I want to use scheme 18:24:42 if you use Chibi you can add Lua too later, because apparently there's a Lua front-end coming at some point i think 18:24:46 but I'd love some practical impressions of embedding the two from someone who's lived it 18:25:08 -!- daat418 [~daat@chammerling-mini.xinet.COM] has quit [Client Quit] 18:25:13 rudybot: he seems to be immune to my snark 18:25:19 ijp: not to mention, their GMO plants are immune to their weed killer. which is scary if you consider the implications 18:26:13 dpk: thanks, didn't know that 18:26:51 there is support for lua in guile, but it will continue to suck until I figure out how to fix the parser 18:27:05 so not in the very near future 18:27:10 is guile well suited for embedded environments? 18:27:49 it's not as easy as it should be 18:28:14 palach [~palach@89-178-40-136.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 18:29:16 any of you folks work for naughty dog and have any feedback re: embedded scheme? 18:29:59 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD56689.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:31:50 rck: Apple Inc ? 18:32:02 Chicken has a thing for iOS. Gambit, too. 18:32:13 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:49 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:32:56 apple uses tinyscheme in one of their security policy things 18:33:03 taylanub: yeah apple, not cisco ha 18:33:14 but do not use tinyscheme 18:33:52 I had faint dreams of making Guile run on iOS because it has such a lovely FFI and could potentially wrap the Objective-C run-time thus be able to replace all your ObjC needs (all the high-level UI libraries are ObjC classes), but it'd be a difficult effort, plus it'd be kind of hypocritical from me. :P 18:34:06 rck: cisco pays dybvigs salary these days, so I presume they actually use chez scheme 18:38:01 ijp: clarify why not to use tinyscheme :-) 18:38:14 because chibi is better and smaller 18:38:24 heh 18:47:01 rudybot: seen foof 18:47:02 turbofail: foof was seen joining in #scheme thirty-six weeks ago, and then foof was seen quitting thirty-six weeks ago, saying "Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)" 18:52:27 -!- tenq|away is now known as tenq 18:52:39 all, thanks for the input 18:52:46 -!- rck [~hakujin@c-68-52-135-71.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 18:56:47 vraid [50d8e34d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.216.227.77] has joined #scheme 18:58:52 -!- tenq is now known as tenq|away 19:00:20 Giomancer [~gio@107.201.206.230] has joined #scheme 19:02:13 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:54 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:04:48 -!- ohama [ohama@cicolina.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:06:21 ohama [ohama@cicolina.org] has joined #scheme 19:11:26 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 19:11:34 -!- tenq|away is now known as tenq 19:11:38 -!- palach [~palach@89-178-40-136.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! 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