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Maybe I'll start there, and then let you know.. 04:23:07 then I'll do HTDP 04:32:57 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:35:00 btw.. anyone know if "Scheme and the Art of Programming" has been released online yet? 04:55:48 ASau` [~user@p4FF96624.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 04:58:09 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-14-48.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:59:26 -!- ASau [~user@p5797F0B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:00:41 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:01:17 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [] 05:01:52 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #scheme 05:01:52 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:03:51 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:04:52 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 05:06:18 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #scheme 05:34:47 -!- racycle [~racycle@75-25-129-128.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:40:14 -!- arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:49:27 -!- zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:50:15 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 06:08:53 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p3E990B3D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:20:16 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #scheme 06:24:48 zacts: Never even heard of it. :^P 06:25:37 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:26:28 carleastlund should know, but he's not here right now.. 06:27:42 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-dgdbreqbvhyfurss] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:47:51 palach [~palach@89-178-44-45.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 07:00:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-154.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 07:06:52 gzg: anyway, but does starting with the little schemer sound like a good idea? 07:07:02 I own all three schemer books 07:07:28 vs, starting with htdp or sicp.. 07:13:57 hiroakip [~hiroaki@132.176.221.197] has joined #scheme 07:17:26 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:17:57 zacts: What background knowledge do you have in/with programming in general? The "Schemer books" at the very least will help you identify what you'll likely associate as odd/strange syntax if you do have any such background -- HTDP is aimed at complete beginners, though it doesn't look too boring if you stick your head in with a little history; SICP, unless you have a solid foundation in some mathematics pursuits, jumping in head-on -- 07:17:57 probably won't be fun. 07:21:05 gzg: I know UNIX command line, vim, learning emacs again (I've read the intro to elisp book), and a bit of intermediate to advanced perl. 07:21:16 but I know almost nothing about computer science 07:21:38 and I know scheme syntax, but not some of the big ideas.. 07:21:53 I have completed Simply Scheme, with the simply.scm subset language 07:22:12 and I started the little schemer a while back, but didn't finish it due to a busy life. 07:23:12 zacts: If you've done Simply Scheme and felt confident about it, you might be ready to go onto SICP then. Hows your math? 07:23:50 That's the only concern I'd have for you, if you aren't solid in/on it -- it'll probably be difficult to balance the two. 07:24:01 I've forgotten almost all of my math. I'm reviewing it this semester so next semester I can start college algebra again. 07:24:15 I will be focusing a lot on math next semester 07:24:45 (note: I didn't mean to imply I failed college algebra and I'm starting again) 07:24:59 I'm just starting where I left off. 07:25:05 :D 07:25:11 -!- palach [~palach@89-178-44-45.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 07:26:34 the quadratic formula, imaginary numbers, solving linear equations, solving quadratic equations.. That's about where I'm at 07:26:49 zacts: Eh, failing a class doesn't necessarily mean you're bad at a subject. I failed intermediate math twice, because it was so boring/easy and their was no real push for me to care enough to do the homework. :^P 07:27:05 I don't know calculus 07:27:15 but I have a big college textbook on it 07:27:23 Well dropped out the first time, then failed the second -- but I digress. 07:27:33 gzg: yeah, that's true 07:27:48 i got a D in calculus when i took it at university 07:27:51 *there was 07:27:57 now I teach it 07:28:02 kilimanjaro: :^) 07:29:25 so where should I start? 07:29:40 my ultimate goal is guix and guilemacs/guile 07:30:04 also, I want to learn computer science 07:30:20 zacts: Ah, you too are looking to run the fabled pseudolisp-machine? :^) 07:30:43 guilemacs? 07:31:28 zacts: Just the general GNU software stack which is coming about; Guix, DmD, GuilEmacs, Guile-wm, etc, etc. 07:31:35 oh yeah.. 07:32:01 I want to be a part of it 07:32:26 zacts: I'm interested; Age? 07:32:37 I'm 25 07:33:16 I'm starting college.. 07:33:19 Man, I always feel so-much older than I am... must be the atypical sense of drive I have. :^P 07:33:52 I want to go for comp sci, but currently know nothing about comp sci 07:34:22 I'm just going for math/english/prereqs right now. undergrad.. 07:34:32 reviewing everything I learned in highschool that I forgot 07:35:51 zacts: No real shame in that -- I'm taking a break in a year actually, for probably a year. Going to have my associates for General Transfer Studies and after that I need to decide what I actually want to do. Considering middle-school science teacher, Compsci/EE, Statistician, and scarily enough, possibly philosophy. 07:39:11 *zacts* is bootstrapping and installing guix now onto a debian based system.. 07:48:07 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:50:49 gtg for tonight. I'll be back tomorrow. 07:52:19 jewel [~jewel@105-236-130-25.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:56:28 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:01:01 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:01:45 zzo38 [~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca] has joined #scheme 08:02:12 Do you know best way storing S-expressions in a SQL database? (I asked in #sqlite channel but they told me ask this channel) 08:03:02 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-126.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:05:51 zzo38: what do you want to do with those s-exps afterwards? if you're going to use some complex queries, probably it'll require some structure, but if you want just put/get them, it'll be enough to store them as text 08:06:20 gzg: ty for mentioning Guix and Guile-wm, hadn't came across them before. 08:08:50 defanor: I know I could store them as text or blobs, but I do want to be able to manipulate them within SQL, so if they are stored in such a way, a virtual table will be needed (alternatively they could be stored directly in the manipulation form, although then it might be less efficient to manipulate them in a C program) 08:10:00 defanor: So, I do want to use some complex queries (and updates) with them. 08:13:18 zzo38: then you could make a table "pairs", which will store ids of elements together with their types (five fields, including id), and a table per primitive data type (just id and val). but it'll require a lot of queries to work with 08:14:56 or to make a field for id of each type in that "pairs" table, but fill only two of them. it'll save some queries 08:17:10 btw, it could be nicer in some ordbms, like postgres, where you could inherit a table and add fields with needed types 08:17:41 Well, these "S-expressions" are not quite full S-expressions of Scheme and Lisp, so I don't really need pairs and some of their other features; also, they may contain references to other tables. 08:17:58 I am using SQLite 08:18:38 Many things are already stored as SQL tables and don't need S-expressions, but some things do need a kind of limited form of S-expressions and a way to manipulate them both within SQL and within C. 08:21:03 reference to another table could be stored as well, marking it as another type. and if you don't want to use pairs, you could use lists at once: just mark all the items in that "pairs" table by list id 08:21:34 and it'll be more like "list_elements", not "pairs" 08:23:03 oh, and it'll require just one type/val, not a pair of them 08:24:19 but i don't think that sql is s-exps-friendly 08:25:24 Yes, I don't think that it is s-exps-friendly, but I should require some way to deal with a limited version of S-expressions. 08:25:52 (So they could easily be converted into real S-expressions I suppose, if you need to, although this application only uses a subset of their features.) 08:28:40 sometimes it's easier to implement more general thing, than a more specific one. but anyway, what is that subset? 08:32:26 Basically I just need lists instead of pairs, I suppose (although there is still "NIL" elements possible). 08:35:21 -!- hiyosi_ [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 08:39:32 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 08:39:33 then you could use something like this: sequence or table (just with id in it) "lists", and table "list_elements" with list id, position in list, id/ref/name of table which must be joined to obtain the corresponding value, and id in that table. but it does not look nice at all 08:39:42 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 08:42:05 Yes, I suppose it isn't nice enough... well, I will try figuring out by myself but for now I will probably sleep soon anyways; thank you for the ideas you have anyways, it might help a bit 08:42:25 yw 08:44:51 -!- zzo38 [~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca] has left #scheme 09:19:43 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 09:22:05 lo 09:22:11 wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 09:26:32 -!- noam_ is now known as noam 09:27:43 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:12:23 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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