00:50:36 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 00:50:36 00:50:36 -!- names: ccl-logbot Kabaka vraid_ bjz Natch fridim__ eMBee racycle ericmathison ohama ineiros eff_ cdidd dkordic RageOfThou weie Ripp__ TheRealPygo amoe Riastradh arrdem Yang_ taylanub jaimef LAMMJohnson sontek joneshf-work sttau ehaliewicz githogori yacks jrapdx oleo mario-goulart jao MichaelRaskin ijp blackwolf theseb scoofy Chaos`Eternal joast fizzie kobain defanor_ stamourv` ASau arbscht add^_ mmc cross Reisen inarru muep dan64 certainty felipe jmnoz 00:50:36 -!- names: andrewsw fds seantallen m4burns C-Keen klutometis rotty SHODAN aking LeoNerd zol kbtr_ weinholt krig pchrist z0d twem2 acieroid dpk stamourv Nshag epsylon Saeren clog zbigniew sharkbird aoh rudybot ecraven chrisirc heath cruxeternus hellome copec offby1 karswell` rapacity xenophon jyc gf3 asumu fikusz jrslepak ft REPLeffect gluegadget finnrobi dsp_ wddd hiyosi dsmith blz37 ski shivani leppie pcarrier Khisanth fadein cky acarrico Giomancer isaacbw ozzloy 00:50:36 -!- names: serhart microcode kryptiskt_ waxysubs DerGuteMoritz amgarching micro` iemejia gnomon tenq cibs em antoszka gazoombo yosafbridge hive-mind wilfredh gaYak noam_ tessier turbofail brendyn pjb youlysses mlamari SeySayux bondar ebzzry zenoli fogus|gone robot-beethoven Kruppe jkraemer stephe ashp copumpkin sethalves nisstyre ivan\ aeth cpach danking_ Razz gabot noobboob_ SirDayBat tsuyoshi vnz tizoc kilimanjaro araujo pothos arbn3 nmeum purentity ggherdov 00:50:36 -!- names: preflex shardz 00:53:55 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:58:25 -!- dkordic [~danilo@93-87-124-217.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:59:31 crocket [~crocket@unaffiliated/crocket] has joined #scheme 00:59:53 Why is lisp split between #lisp and #scheme? 00:59:59 #lisp is now about common lisp 01:00:05 #scheme is about scheme 01:00:22 Is there a channel for lisp in general? 01:00:22 oh boy, just you wait till you find out how split scheme is 01:00:36 and you didn't even mention #emacs or #clojure 01:02:56 CMz [CMz@74-129-39-17.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #scheme 01:03:03 -!- Ripp__ [~textual@c-67-180-16-120.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:09:34 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:13:16 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #scheme 01:15:07 teleScope [~cong@111.222.112.61] has joined #scheme 01:15:36 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #scheme 01:18:01 -!- teleScope [~cong@111.222.112.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:14 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:18:22 teleScope [~cong@111.222.112.61] has joined #scheme 01:18:31 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #scheme 01:27:12 CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #scheme 01:39:51 -!- crocket [~crocket@unaffiliated/crocket] has left #scheme 01:48:29 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.203.247.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:58:03 -!- Chaos`Eternal [~chaos@202.111.192.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:02:50 ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.203.247.67] has joined #scheme 02:05:08 -!- jrapdx [~jrapdx@74-95-41-205-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:05:51 jrapdx [~jrapdx@74-95-41-205-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 02:06:12 -!- vraid_ is now known as vraid 02:10:58 f***ing Judean People's Front 02:13:10 offby1: are you one of the People's Front of Judean bastards? 02:13:12 rins [~aaron@c-98-216-107-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:13:17 *Judea 02:13:39 I thought we were the judean people's front? 02:13:52 Splitters! 02:15:07 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:20:18 -!- rins [~aaron@c-98-216-107-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:21:56 bjz_ [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 02:21:56 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:25:31 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:29:08 adiii [~adityavit@c-50-136-206-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:43:59 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:52:43 -!- vraid [~vraid@c80-216-227-77.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:53:08 vraid [~vraid@c80-216-227-77.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 02:53:50 no we are the peoples front of judea! 02:58:42 -!- karswell` [~user@228.33.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:12 -!- jrapdx [~jrapdx@74-95-41-205-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:06:49 preflex_ [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 03:08:30 -!- preflex [~preflex@mnch-4d04e631.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:08:35 -!- preflex_ is now known as preflex 03:10:46 Saeren_ [~saeren@mail.skepsi.net] has joined #scheme 03:13:52 gio__ [~gio@107.201.206.230] has joined #scheme 03:13:53 -!- stamourv` [~user@ahuntsic.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:53 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:54 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:54 -!- Giomancer [~gio@107.201.206.230] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:54 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:13:54 -!- Saeren [~saeren@mail.skepsi.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:14:14 ivan\_ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #scheme 03:14:17 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #scheme 03:15:51 Chaos`Eternal [~chaos@140.206.89.123] has joined #scheme 03:17:17 -!- ivan\_ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:18:32 araujo_ [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #scheme 03:18:32 -!- araujo_ [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:19:05 ivan\ [~ivan@108-213-76-179.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:19:05 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@108-213-76-179.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:19:05 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #scheme 03:27:14 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 03:30:33 jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-145-216.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:31:43 brianmwaters [41b78511@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.183.133.17] has joined #scheme 03:33:54 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has quit [Quit: MichaelRaskin] 03:35:51 does anyone know any good papers or books that talk about continuations as they relate to the evaluation of scheme programs, and, in particular, call/cc? 03:37:00 that is, as opposed to books/papers on the use of CPS for writing purely functional programs... 04:03:01 -!- brianmwaters [41b78511@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.183.133.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:05:05 brianmwaters [41b78511@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.183.133.17] has joined #scheme 04:05:29 -!- brianmwaters is now known as Guest82363 04:05:38 -!- Guest82363 [41b78511@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.183.133.17] has quit [Client Quit] 04:17:23 -!- CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:18:08 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:19:21 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:27:03 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317373.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:43:23 juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.61.177] has joined #scheme 04:47:02 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [] 04:51:48 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF97EC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:05:31 -!- Chaos`Eternal [~chaos@140.206.89.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:19:40 Ripp__ [~textual@c-76-21-7-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:30:30 karswell [~user@228.33.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined #scheme 05:32:05 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-182-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:32:54 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-128-40.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 05:54:14 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 05:59:00 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06:33 mumptai [~calle@brmn-4d0aa2b8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 06:11:03 guest5150 [3294a258@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.148.162.88] has joined #scheme 06:11:21 -!- mumptai [~calle@brmn-4d0aa2b8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:18:28 -!- racycle [~racycle@75-25-129-128.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23:27 jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:24:43 Chaos`Eternal [~chaos@140.206.255.9] has joined #scheme 06:36:15 -!- guest5150 [3294a258@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.148.162.88] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:41:52 Natch_k [~Natch@c-cdcee155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 06:43:55 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-cdcee155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:43:55 -!- Natch_k is now known as Natch 06:48:45 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:50:34 palach [~palach@95-27-118-109.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 06:57:28 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 07:07:48 -!- Ripp__ [~textual@c-76-21-7-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:12:43 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298BDD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 07:13:47 ASau [~user@p4FF967C4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 07:14:23 -!- ijp [~user@host86-141-181-235.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: unbork] 07:15:38 ijp [~user@host86-141-181-235.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 07:23:58 wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 07:32:31 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #scheme 07:34:52 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #scheme 07:36:42 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298BDD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:47:51 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 07:55:16 -!- palach [~palach@95-27-118-109.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! 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[~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 13:49:53 juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.61.177] has joined #scheme 13:51:51 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@89.202.203.51] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:52:05 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #scheme 13:54:14 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.61.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:00:44 philippe [~philippe@modemcable067.132-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 14:00:59 -!- philippe is now known as Guest75641 14:01:22 civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has joined #scheme 14:03:42 hi, could you help me calculate the growth of my function? http://paste.lisp.org/display/139033 14:05:25 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:34 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:06:03 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #scheme 14:06:05 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 14:08:12 -!- ogamita [~t@LNantes-156-76-35-103.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:09:29 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:14:25 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has joined #scheme 14:14:51 tylergoza [~tylergoza@user-24-96-98-239.knology.net] has joined #scheme 14:17:20 racycle [~racycle@75-25-129-128.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 14:22:52 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #scheme 14:23:29 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 14:27:47 -!- racycle [~racycle@75-25-129-128.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:19 spobat [~spobat@unaffiliated/spobat] has joined #scheme 14:32:28 why do so many people start comments with ;; if just ; is enough? 14:32:39 e.g. all wikipedia code examples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheme_(programming_language) 14:34:17 paddymahoney [~paddymaho@24.137.221.230] has joined #scheme 14:37:22 juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.61.177] has joined #scheme 14:37:58 spobat: by convention, ; is only for end-of-line comments, and then the more ; you have, the more important the comment is 14:38:48 duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #scheme 14:39:27 okay 14:39:58 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 14:40:08 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:40:30 spobat: some editors (eg. emacs) will even indent single-; comments far to the right 14:44:16 okay 14:45:53 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.61.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:46:04 is there anything like a predefined "null term"? 14:46:07 (define (null-term a) 14:46:08 a) 14:46:25 juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.61.177] has joined #scheme 14:47:47 identity ? 14:48:54 right! 14:51:14 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@88.103.61.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:53:50 I don't recall seeing one in r5rs or r7rs. 14:54:14 What would null-term do? 14:54:30 Ohwait, I see.. Yah.. I usually call that 'id 14:54:34 For "identity" 14:57:21 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:33 `values' is kind of the rnrs function for that 15:00:25 I've never -quite- understood what "values" does 15:00:44 it returns its arguments 15:00:58 and passes them to the current continuation 15:01:27 So it literally is the MV identity function? 15:02:24 Yes. 15:03:05 Hrm.. then why doesn't it jsut say so? Its description always sounded so complicated 15:03:15 LeoNerd: why 'id instead of just id? 15:04:20 Hm? 15:04:30 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #scheme 15:04:34 Oh that's just my notation here on channel :) I quoted the identifier name 15:05:01 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:52 civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has joined #scheme 15:06:55 spobat_ [~spobat@unaffiliated/spobat] has joined #scheme 15:07:13 okay LeoNerd :) 15:07:46 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 15:10:00 Yang__ [~Yang@60.191.2.238] has joined #scheme 15:10:26 -!- spobat [~spobat@unaffiliated/spobat] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:12:07 -!- Yang_ [~Yang@60.191.2.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:16:13 -!- fogus|gone is now known as `fogus 15:18:06 -!- Guest14143 [~this@41.89.164.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:20:46 agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 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has joined #scheme 18:55:02 Hotroot [~David@pool-96-247-115-55.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:56:30 I am quite new to Scheme, and I'm trying to figure out why this program is not being tail-recursive 18:56:37 https://gist.github.com/anonymous/f0d5d2f0f174f80d9da3 19:02:09 My understanding was that the last line of a function had to be a call to the same function in order for it to optimize 19:02:26 Does it not work in a conditional or something? 19:04:00 Seems tail recursive to me. 19:04:28 Yes, it works in a conditional. 19:04:53 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #scheme 19:04:57 Takes up increasing amounts of ram when run 19:05:02 -!- agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:05:29 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f76895c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:05:36 TheRealPygo [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d066fc0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 19:06:59 What implementation ? 19:07:09 DrRacket 19:07:20 R5RS mode 19:07:31 should be fine 19:07:41 By the way we don't use under_scores or camelCase in Scheme, we just use dashed-symbols. 19:08:02 you might want to check with the folks in #racket, but the code looks fine to me fwiw 19:08:16 Hmm. Well thanks for checking it out 19:08:31 Less than a chapter into SICP, pretty excited 19:10:01 dracket probably accumulates the output, so you'll use about O(log limit) space for it. 19:10:38 pnkfelix1 [~Adium@bas75-2-88-170-201-21.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:11:30 Boy, I feel like an idiot 19:11:41 I sometimes forget that text isn't free 19:11:54 I doubt it: idiots don't feel like that at all, ever. 19:12:42 It'd be free on a visual terminal, or an emulator thereof that'd lose scrolled out text. 19:13:31 Still seems to slow down though. Inefficient memory management I suppose 19:14:08 I wouldn't think that Racket is bad in memory management. 19:14:18 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@bas75-2-88-170-201-21.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:14:22 *Maybe* some issues related to the IDE ... 19:15:54 I meant the IDE, not the language 19:16:22 Some sort of wrong list type for seek-times on the text or summat 19:17:02 To be fair, I'm pushing it like crazy. Most people don't output 1mil + lines of text 19:20:09 Maybe there's a way to clear the text buffer. 19:20:15 Hotroot: try (flush-output) after the newline. 19:20:25 You are probably just using memory via the IO buffer 19:20:35 Thank you. 19:21:06 So I hear R7 is the new Python 3 in terms of controversy 19:21:08 Hotroot: also for SICP I recommend using Neil's SICP language : http://planet.racket-lang.org/package-source/neil/sicp.plt/1/17/planet-docs/sicp/index.html 19:21:08 http://tinyurl.com/chyqo85 19:21:31 And for most other things in Racket, #lang racket. I don't recommend using the R5RS mode for anything. 19:23:31 Hotroot: Scheme is committee/specification driven and not dictator/implementation; Python is first and foremost aimed at "practical usage in the current software world", Scheme is quite different; etc.; so I'd say it's not a good analogy. 19:24:52 taylanub: Right, just meant in terms of people freaking out about new specs 19:25:22 If I got it right, it mostly started with R6RS. 19:26:22 asumu: Thanks 19:26:40 R7RS *tries* to make everyone happy by splitting the standard into a small and a large language, the latter building upon the former, but there's still people who dislike this approach, and I know at least one person who strongly criticises the way the large standard approaches standardization ("making everything optional", to put it superficially). 19:27:55 Yes, everything optional is not a good idea. You can have optional coarse modules, but if a module is implemented, everything in it should be implemented. 19:27:59 There should be pages explaining it better than me, I don't have any links at hand ATM. 19:28:40 Hmm 19:28:56 Don't people normally switch languages for "practical" solutions anyway? 19:29:15 I see Haskell used a lot, and heard it's "impurity" helps with that. 19:29:26 -!- pnkfelix1 [~Adium@bas75-2-88-170-201-21.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:29:38 Haskell is purely functional, don't know what impurity you mean. 19:29:51 agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 19:30:51 http://www.lisperati.com/landoflisp/panel01.html 19:31:33 "Practical reasons" is a very vague term ... I think the main problem is that usually the quality of something is quite irrelevant to the popularity it reaches. 19:31:59 taylanub: Hmm. Will have to look into it then. I recall there being one that made some imperative sacrifices to be better for production 19:32:24 The point is that you just need to identify the chief sheep, and convince him, and all the other sheeps will follow. 19:33:49 The creator of Scheme himself went on to help make CL right? I checked out CL once, never got into it. 19:34:49 The creator of Scheme would be Steele and Sussman, I don't know of them having contributed to the CL spec but I wouldn't be surprised either. 19:34:57 creators* 19:35:10 stepnem_ [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #scheme 19:35:37 I meant Steele 19:35:47 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:35:47 -!- stepnem_ is now known as stepnem 19:36:26 I'm very satisfied with Scheme at the moment anyway, SICP has been quite the experience, and I'm finally starting to understand the "enlightenment" thing, even if not really experiencing it. 19:37:06 There's much enlightenment scattered around, Scheme contains only an arbitrary subset of it all. :D 19:38:49 "X3J13 is the name of a technical committee which was part of INCITS (known at the time as X3). The X3J13 committee was formed in 1986 to draw up an ANSI Common Lisp standard based on the first edition of the book Common Lisp the Language (also known as "CLtL", or "CLtL1"), by Guy L. Steele, Jr., which was previously a de facto standard for the language." ... "The original chair of the committee was Doctor Robert Mathis of Ohio State 19:38:50 University, with Mary van Deusen as secretary. Guy L. Steele, Jr. was originally the vice-chair. In later years, Mathis stepped down as chair and Steele assumed that role." 19:38:54 I doubt I'll ever experience it in the way many describe. I pretty much "grew up" on JavaScript, so I'm already used to first-class functions and such 19:41:33 There is no one singular piece of enlightenment you'll get Scheme, there's plenty ... homoiconicity/code-as-data, hygiene, sensible scoping, sensible typing, continuations, delimited/composable continuations, ... 19:41:43 get from Scheme* 19:43:10 could you elaborate on sensible typing? 19:43:20 I'll get there. SICP is like wading through concrete though, so I might be a while =P 19:44:30 Well I suppose non-sensibly typed languages are the minority. PHP, JS, ..? Specifically, I have overloaded-by-default operators in mind, e.g. when you think of it it's quite ridiculous that JS doesn't exactly have a pure numeric-addition function. 19:45:10 ah, i get what you mean 19:45:12 tcsc [~tcsc@c-76-127-240-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:45:13 Addition and equality operators are the most common suspects I suppose. 19:46:11 Ah indeed, equality is another topic on its own; many high-level languages try to make you stop thinking about object identity (or operational equivalence) versus the more vague equality between mutable data structures. 19:48:08 (Does JavaScript even have a way to test object-identity, a la the "is" operator of Python ?) 19:48:42 maybe there was === 19:49:07 I just tested "foo" === "foo" and it's true, so that's not it. 19:49:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_introspection 19:50:01 taylanub: not sure might be interned strings 19:50:02 -!- Isp-sec [~palach@95-27-118-109.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:50:14 taylanub: try: String("foo") === String("foo") 19:50:21 I don't think that === is an equality operator. 19:50:35 s/equality/identity/ 19:50:43 boycottg00gle: Is ture. 19:50:45 true* 19:50:50 don't remember - don't really care - sorry for the noise 19:54:41 Hrm, ({}) === ({}) is false actually, so perhaps String("foo") are still interned somehow. (Those "({})" are empty objects.) 19:55:27 Now I just need to know whether JS has in-place mutation operations on strings, because if so then it would mean the operator is still broken if it's meant to test object identity. 19:57:15 prefer scm over js anyway 19:58:03 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:59:11 -!- boycottg00gle [~user@stgt-5f71a3c2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:44 Apparently strings are indeed immutable in JS. Surprising! The === operator could be considered to test operational equivalence (or object identity) then I suppose. 19:59:55 taylanub: typeof 20:00:18 == means equality after coercion. === means no conversation takes place 20:00:39 "1" == 1 - "1" !== 1 20:00:46 I'm talking about the distinction between "(vague) equality" and "operational equivalence" though. 20:01:04 === 20:01:08 [] === [] is false because the two are not the same array. 20:01:20 In Scheme this is realized via `eqv?'. 20:01:22 Objects are a bit different 20:01:51 I've never seen it be an issue in JS 20:04:02 duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #scheme 20:05:22 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:07:33 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p5DC62B06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:10:43 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 20:14:42 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD92A4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:15:21 taylanub [tub@p4FD9328C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:15:33 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:16:55 jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:17:02 Well, later all. 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