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03:16:42 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #scheme 03:20:41 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:22:40 noobboob [uid5587@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wsdcgpnterbvduew] has joined #scheme 03:22:41 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #scheme 03:23:53 -!- walter [~walter@c-98-216-15-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:33:29 annodomini [~lambda@c-76-23-156-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:33:29 -!- annodomini [~lambda@c-76-23-156-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:33:29 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 03:34:37 how do you write an absolute value function? 03:36:59 |x| is the absolute value of x 03:39:17 so you just put the || around the constants 03:40:06 for |x1-x2| would it be |(- x1 x2)| 03:40:07 ? 03:41:46 rudybot: eval (map abs (list -3 0 2)) 03:41:46 ski: ; Value: '(3 0 2) 03:42:55 No, I'm just jerking your chain 03:43:04 "abs" is the built in function, as in many programming languages 03:44:12 rudybot: eval (map magnitude (list -4+3i 0 12-5i)) 03:44:12 ski: ; Value: '(5 0 13) 03:44:26 ok 03:45:57 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has quit [Quit: MichaelRaskin] 03:47:29 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:54:42 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:56:17 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 03:57:36 condy [~communi@123.138.72.124] has joined #scheme 03:58:27 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 04:03:37 -!- chupish [18b8ecba@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.184.236.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:18:08 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE000e582ae076-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 04:22:20 nmeum_ [~nmeum@2a00:12c0:1015:123::] has joined #scheme 04:22:26 -!- nmeum [~nmeum@2a00:12c0:1015:123::] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:25:37 -!- es917 [~es@149.142.141.102] 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06:20:18 Hey friends, I am trying to optimize a physics system (which consists of a simple universe of AABB boxes which collide) the most I can, for an online game. I am migrating languages, and I would like to use scheme. 1. Is there is a compiler which allows me to code that directly on the GPU? 2. If not, which compiler would you recommend for such a numeric crunching software? 06:31:40 -!- noam_ [~noam@213.57.201.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:38:03 -!- foeniks [~fevon@p5499DB17.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:43:01 pnkfelix [~Adium@bas75-2-88-170-201-21.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 06:43:33 -!- racycle [~racycle@75-25-129-128.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:45:51 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: hkBst] 06:48:49 CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #scheme 07:00:59 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:19:18 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 07:23:09 SrPx: Chicken and some other compilers compile Scheme to portable C as an intermediate, maybe that could somehow help with the GPU problem ? 07:24:38 They have their own IRC channel too by the way. 07:25:03 (Chicken, that is.) And since Racket is huge, they might just have something of that sort to .. I'd ask in their IRC channel too. 07:31:34 Oh, interesting. THanks 07:35:00 jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:35:12 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:40:38 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:42:00 jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:55:27 -!- SrPx [b1ce397a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.206.57.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:04:06 -!- githogori_ [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:06:05 alexei [~amgarchin@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #scheme 08:11:54 kuribas [~user@d54C430B0.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 08:12:11 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: hkBst] 08:15:06 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-50-136-206-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:19:45 waxysubs [hope8@world.peace.net] has joined #scheme 08:30:02 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 08:30:22 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:30:25 boycottg00gle [~user@stgt-5f719cdf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 08:33:58 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has left #scheme 09:06:31 agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 09:10:43 -!- youlysses [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:21:19 -!- hashcat [~chatzilla@39.12.220.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:22:43 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #scheme 09:23:23 hashcat [~chatzilla@39.12.220.170] has joined #scheme 09:24:52 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [] 09:25:11 -!- CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:32:18 vraid [c1b4bd9e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.180.189.158] has joined #scheme 09:32:44 -!- ics [~ianclarks@ool-18bf6d86.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:37:47 githogori [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:38:49 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:39:39 githogori [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:40:13 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:40:32 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #scheme 09:41:04 githogori [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:41:33 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:42:47 ianclarksmith [~ianclarks@ool-18bf6d86.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 10:01:12 -!- defanor_ [~defanor@ppp91-77-165-198.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01:38 defanor [~defanor@ppp91-77-165-198.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 10:01:59 SrPx [b1ce397a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.206.57.122] has joined #scheme 10:03:12 Hello guys, I've been battling all night trying to find a ultra-fast scheme implementation. I've been amazed with this: http://justindomke.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/the-stalin-compiler/ but after struggling to install stalin (I had to setup a debian VM!) I've finally compiled the program and the "C" output is nothing like that. Did he just lie to me? ): 10:05:10 "I then converted this to C." -- it probably means that the author converted it himself, not via stalin 10:06:19 just to compare performance 10:06:45 C output is usually not for reading by humans 10:08:13 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:08:41 Oh, that makes sense. 10:09:41 No problems then. Anyway, I'm reading things on the internet about Stalin being 2~3 times faster than C. That doesn't fit in my mind very well... but I guess it is the fastest scheme implementation, at least, can I be sure of that? It is kinda hard to use, though, and seems unmaintened ... 10:14:50 That doesn't fit in my mind very well... -- maybe it's just about optimizations that scheme->C compiler will perform, but a human could forget. like "c/java is faster then assembler" things. and about fastest scheme implementation: idk, but it's probably best to compare them all on your code that must be executed fast: some things could be faster in one implementation, some - in another, and the result will depend on your code. but not 10:14:51 sure, maybe there is some fastest-in-everything implementation 10:16:20 tiksa [~tiksa@gateway/tor-sasl/tiksa] has joined #scheme 10:21:36 yea, a fastest-in-average 10:24:41 SrPx, if you look at the comments you can see that the C code was eventually as fast as the C code generated by Stalin 10:24:57 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #scheme 10:25:45 jewel: which is still surprising... and I've heard some anecdotes around reporting some Stalin generated code to be orders of magnitude faster than C. I don't know what to think. That is just too good for something that is not continued and barely used...?! 10:26:24 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Client Quit] 10:27:00 SrPx, if you read the comments, Barak Pearlmutter talks about how to leverage Stalins optimizations to get better results than C for certain problems. 10:27:01 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #scheme 10:28:22 yes, but explain why this isn't used by anyone? What is the prank? 10:31:17 SrPx, there is no prank. Stalin probably has some very sophisticated optimizations but they are not broadly useful (and maybe they have long compilation times?) 10:32:00 snowylike [~sn@91-67-170-78-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 10:32:34 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #scheme 10:32:36 SrPx, they probably allow you to express a problem in a cleaner and more concise way but most people prefer to code up something more complicated in C or Fortran? 10:32:48 jewel: so what... if you have to get the best performing server I guess you will not care if it takes a few hours to compile your final program? 10:33:06 but it is just scheme... 10:33:17 people on this channel could use it for their codes, I guess. 10:33:20 SrPx, sure, but if your program gets bigger and bigger and days turn into weeks ... 10:40:49 -!- ianclarksmith is now known as ics 10:43:16 jewel: are you sure of that? 10:43:37 SrPx, no I'm just speculating 10:45:56 I see 10:46:17 I think the reason is more towards -> it is not maintened, it is not popular 10:53:39 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Quit: MichaelRaskin] 10:57:24 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #scheme 11:23:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:36:15 SrPx: Stalin does so-called "whole-program optimization" that takes extremely long; I heard GCC can optionally do it too but generally it isn't done. 11:37:12 Hence Stalin *can* outperform C code, in select situations where the optimizations it does have a big effect on performance. 11:37:30 (Outperform "typical" C code, compiled in a "typical" way, that is, I think.) 11:37:57 eli [~eli@lambda.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 11:37:57 -!- eli [~eli@lambda.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 11:37:57 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #scheme 11:39:54 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:26 Other than that AFAIK Gambit is a very fast implementation. Racket is huge and well-engineered and should have nice performance too. (Advertisement:) Guile is slowly getting there too, switching to a register VM with 2.2, and also native compilation thereafter. 11:42:01 BTW from what I know Stalin and Gambit are mainly fast at numerical computation, might not really be what you want, just look into them .. 11:42:11 Oh and Chicken should perform plenty well too. 11:42:37 *taylanub* would love to see some new Scheme implementations benchmarks ... 11:43:02 ijp [~user@host109-150-135-12.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 11:44:43 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:44:55 taylanub: oh so you are the guile guy 11:45:00 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.142] has joined #scheme 11:45:13 ASau` [~user@p5797EB08.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 11:46:05 num computation is what I want, though, it is a physics system with aabb boxes and collision. the algo is pretty simple, but JS isn't made for this kind of thing, so I'm choosing where/how I will implement it (I was thinking I could use the GPU too, but I'm too noob on that) 11:47:03 (JS is actually doing pretty well since I optimized the universe using quadtrees, but still, I can't get more than a hundred boxes without going bad) 11:48:03 I'm a Guile guy but I don't know if I'm "the" Guile guy ... 11:48:55 -!- ASau [~user@p5797F542.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:49:49 you might wish to mix scheme and c 11:50:16 maybe you also are interested in libode 11:54:19 what is libode? 11:54:53 oh, ode.org? 11:55:14 open dynamics engine - afair 11:55:34 maybe there are even some guile bindings 11:55:54 i did play around with it and gauche some time ago 11:57:46 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 11:58:44 -!- lazyden [~lazyden@58.185.121.38] has quit [Quit: lazyden] 11:59:25 walter [~walter@c-98-216-15-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:04:47 libode ? gauche ? hm 12:06:01 oh, the problem on those physics libs is that I guess they are too complex with too much features, when all I need is just aabb boxes 12:06:14 as in, no friction 12:06:54 and as it is simple I can do it in a few lines... so i guess it can be much faster than a fully featured phys engine. also easier to port. but im not sure about that 12:09:15 this was just informational 12:11:46 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-157-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:12:45 dkordic [~danilo@93-87-124-217.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #scheme 12:13:17 -!- SrPx [b1ce397a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.206.57.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:14:06 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 12:17:23 -!- DerGuteMoritz [~syn@saturn.lileth.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 12:18:36 defanor_ [~defanor@ppp91-77-185-114.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 12:18:45 DerGuteMoritz [~syn@saturn.lileth.net] has joined #scheme 12:19:54 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:21:36 -!- defanor [~defanor@ppp91-77-165-198.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] 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edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 18:39:42 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:42:13 how does one execute SCode compiled scheme? 18:42:55 So I have a scheme file foo.scm, I compile with (sf "foo"), then what do I do to execute it? 18:43:00 mit-scheme 18:43:56 (load "foo") 18:46:19 hmm. I tried that and get file does not exist It exists as .scm, .bin, .bci, .c, .o, .so. I also tried (cf "foo") 18:46:38 Are you in the same directory? 18:46:53 no, I am a fool. 18:46:58 Sorry, that did work 18:47:18 how would I get this to run by its self? 18:47:31 like a useful stand-alone process? 18:47:46 In Unix? 18:47:53 yes 18:48:09 I guess I have .o file so I could go from there... 18:48:21 gcartier [~gcartier@modemcable010.136-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 18:49:40 No, there's no nice way to get a Unix executable out of it. Use: mit-scheme --eval '(begin (load "foo") (%exit))' 18:51:24 hmm. 18:51:47 Is there a LISP dialect that is very much like scheme that would permit me to make a nice unix executable? 18:52:17 I do not see the utility of the code otherwise 18:52:23 #!/bin/sh / exce mit-scheme --eval '(begin (load "foo") (%exit))' 18:52:24 exec 18:55:29 texasmynsted: Racket can do executables. 18:57:12 ok 18:57:37 texasmynsted: gambit and chicken too 19:01:09 are they close enough that I could follow along the SICP book examples? 19:01:40 http://www.neilvandyke.org/racket-sicp/ 19:02:10 texasmynsted: I think so 19:02:11 AFAIK, this is as close as you can get to what SICP uses. 19:04:02 oh nice. thank you 19:12:44 developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 19:19:48 wow chicken is very nice 19:19:53 :-) 19:21:02 alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD61F68.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:22:57 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23:11 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:38 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD600E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:24:02 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:24:06 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:38 alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD5689F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:26:38 -!- alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD61F68.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:27:08 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #scheme 19:29:29 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has joined #scheme 19:31:56 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:58 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD5689F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:40:07 bjz_ [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 19:40:29 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:56 alexei_ [~amgarchin@79.214.50.124] has joined #scheme 19:55:53 isn't sicp just mit scheme? 20:03:58 No 20:12:28 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-13.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:34 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@24.137.221.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:28:11 isaacbw: sicp uses mit scheme, but it's about structure and interpretation of computing programs, not about scheme. 20:31:26 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:36:32 youlysses [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 20:38:44 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@79.214.50.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:43:33 tiksa [~tiksa@gateway/tor-sasl/tiksa] has joined #scheme 20:43:49 Racket for example has some support for SICP, I believe 20:48:06 civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has joined #scheme 20:52:47 pjb: I didn't mean "isn't sicp just a book about scheme" 20:52:59 I meant "doesn't sicp use mit scheme" 20:53:11 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 20:53:28 or rather "don't mit scheme and sicp have a tightly coupled history" 20:53:31 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:55 -!- edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:55:45 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 21:00:31 -!- davexunit [~user@38.104.7.18] has quit [Quit: Later] 21:01:06 -!- edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:02:56 -!- vraid [~vraid@c80-216-227-77.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:03:39 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 21:04:01 isaacbw: see the importance of using the right word to carry over the proper meaning? 21:04:04 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:04:18 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 21:04:34 SrPx [b1ce397a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.206.57.122] has joined #scheme 21:04:38 After all, those years spent in school in English courses would have been useful. Who'd have said? 21:05:11 vraid [~vraid@c80-216-227-77.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 21:05:40 It would be really great if someone took care of the Stalin compiler. It seems like there is nothing wrong with it: it is not used for the simple fact it is unknown. It is completely abandoned, which is a shame. I think the Scheme community could benefit a lot from having a compiler that is faster than gcc is for C. 21:06:06 -!- rins [~aaron@38.88.168.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:06:19 Well, we have ever faster processors, so it doesn't matter much at what speed your compiled code runs. 21:06:30 Actually, the slower it runs, the better it may be for most of us. 21:06:32 It does matter a lot...! 21:06:54 Eg. it moves people to buy the latest iPhone, which brings money for a lot of programmers. 21:07:05 -!- samth [~samth@129-79-241-204.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:07:13 That is insane... the speed of my inner loop pretty much dictates how many objects (read: players) I can hold on my server. 21:07:22 Now I don't say, if you want to break NSA crypted files 21:07:54 But it's probably easier to put $300 more and buy a new CPU than to spend the 3 hours needed to install the compiler and have it compile your project. 21:08:30 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:08:48 ijp` [~user@host86-141-181-235.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 21:09:16 SrPx: That's true to go from 20 to 200. But nowadays, you want to go to 200,000,000 if not 2,000,000,000 players, and it's not a faster compiler that will help. Once you buy 1000 CPU in a cluster, you can buy 2,000, makes no difference (at most, a little pressure or convincing to sales people to get them for the same price). 21:09:52 All I'm saying is that speed is overrated in general. There may be some specific circumstances where you need it, but it's not the general case. 21:09:53 -!- ijp [~user@host86-141-181-235.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:09:55 -!- ijp` is now known as ijp 21:11:53 pothos_ [~pothos@1-164-208-45.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:12:06 More interesting would be development tools doing static analysis to debug the program, or helping with tracking the requirements vs. implementation vs. bugs, or generating some code automatically from the requirements, or proving that your code is good, etc. 21:13:50 cpach_ [~cpach@h125n2-veo-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #scheme 21:14:13 -!- pothos [~pothos@1-164-208-45.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:15 alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD6327C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:14:34 -!- pothos_ is now known as pothos 21:14:41 jao [~jao@55.Red-79-148-157.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:14:44 -!- jao [~jao@55.Red-79-148-157.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:14:44 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 21:15:11 -!- cpach [~cpach@h125n2-veo-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:16:02 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:17:18 SrPx: except stalin doesn't support a good half of the iteresting things I want from my scheme, and it's slower than rewriting it in assembly by hand 21:17:54 -!- youlysses [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:55 which is not nearly as much of an exaggeration as it should be 21:18:04 -!- weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:18:48 ijp: for example? 21:18:57 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:58 a $300 CPU seems a bit excessive 21:19:04 try compling (display "hello world") 21:19:14 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD6327C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:19:24 alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD6327C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:19:34 that _should_ be instantaneous 21:19:42 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #scheme 21:19:47 pjb: I can't debate that, maybe yo uare actually right. Yet, the argument for many people for using C is 99% of the time: it is faster than your toy language, so shut up. And that counts a lot for newcomers chosing what to learn. Which then counts a lot to the community. 21:19:56 no need for complex flow analysis, cross module inlining, or any of that 21:20:17 ijp: you can work your program with another compiler and then produce the final version with stalin ... 21:20:37 which assumes stalin is correct 21:20:39 but I've never been a bleeding edge cpu guy 21:20:52 and stalin supports everything I used in my program 21:21:04 both of which are doubtful 21:21:44 ijp: stalin seems to support a lot, though, and certainly could improve if it wasn't abandoned ... 21:22:05 so you decide to do your macro expansion on your original scheme, and then whoops, it doesn't support exceptions or whatever, and then you rewrite that, and then after a dozen iterations you've written a scheme compiler 21:22:09 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:23:14 stalin _could_ be a great compiler, but I'm pretty sure only one person understands it, and they aren't interested in it any more 21:23:21 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 21:23:40 Stalin doesn't even support R5RS. 21:23:55 does it even manage r4? 21:34:23 Well, just write a r7rs compiler that generates faster code (eg. LLVM), and call it Khrushchev. 21:34:56 it isn't just a question of using llvm 21:35:06 i was thinking of calling a scheme hitler ;p 21:35:19 it will fail in the end 21:35:32 Hittler, it's a boy compared to Staline. 21:35:55 The score is: H:6M S:90M 21:39:05 good to know, less work to done ;p 21:40:51 youlysses [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 21:41:07 s/to/to be/ 21:43:09 -!- pothos [~pothos@1-164-208-45.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:44:11 yea but that is just what I'm saying . no questions it is not good enough as it is now, but it has lots of potential 21:44:30 -!- edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:46:14 Ripp__ [~textual@c-67-180-16-120.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:46:34 pothos [~pothos@36-224-96-142.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:47:37 davexunit [~user@c-71-232-35-199.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:52:19 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:54:39 -!- gcartier [~gcartier@modemcable010.136-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:30 I think Stalin should just be seen as an exemplar code-base for how to implement certain optimization techniques. 21:56:48 Just as well as you could try to improve the Stalin code-base to be more modern/proper, you could implement the optimizations present in it on other Scheme implementations which already are modern/proper. 21:57:58 Can't tell which would be a larger effort, but if you go with an existing implementation you'll have a community, the other way you'll be mostly alone, presumably. 22:02:52 what is the built-in expression for e^x? 22:03:12 rudybot: (exp 1) 22:03:12 ijp: ; Value: 2.718281828459045 22:03:57 rudybot: (exp 2) 22:03:57 noobboob: your sandbox is ready 22:03:57 noobboob: ; Value: 7.38905609893065 22:05:04 rudybot: (exp 2 2) 22:05:04 noobboob: error: exp: arity mismatch; the expected number of arguments does not match the given number expected: 1 given: 2 arguments...: 2 2 22:05:15 O.o 22:05:35 noobboob: did you want e to the power of, or generic exponentiation? 22:05:47 the latter is expt 22:05:53 e to the power with an input parameter 22:06:17 then you'll understand why it only accepts one argument 22:07:01 ok i see now 22:07:49 taylanub: I wish **I** could understand a tenth of what stalin did there, though. greek for me 22:09:50 edw [~edw@cpe-67-250-41-96.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:20:21 libertas [~libertas@87.196.35.233] has joined #scheme 22:33:01 -!- gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:36:08 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:43:55 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@37.83.118.205] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:47:30 -!- racycle [~racycle@75-25-129-128.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:48 -!- edw [~edw@cpe-67-250-41-96.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:48:27 -!- dessos [~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #scheme 22:53:22 githogori_ [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:54:38 -!- githogori_ [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:54:52 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:55:31 githogori_ [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:56:48 -!- githogori_ [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:57:41 githogori_ [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:59:02 -!- githogori_ [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:59:53 githogori_ [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:02:18 githogori__ [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:03:15 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:03:17 walter [~walter@c-98-216-15-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:05:54 -!- githogori_ [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:12:29 fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317559.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 23:40:13 -!- tiksa [~tiksa@gateway/tor-sasl/tiksa] has quit [Quit: Pozdrav] 23:41:07 lazyden [~lazyden@58.185.121.38] has joined #scheme 23:43:00 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-71-192-255-114.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:44:33 -!- walter [~walter@c-98-216-15-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:51:11 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 23:54:23 -!- davexunit [~user@c-71-232-35-199.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Later]