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error: Operation timed out] 15:21:46 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f768848.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 15:22:28 shivani [uid11848@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-liqddkzvkypawkod] has joined #scheme 15:23:00 Hi is "op" (for operators like +, - etc) pre-defined as a field name in scheme? 15:24:02 Does "field" have a standard definition in Scheme? 15:24:50 But, I don't believe "op" is mentioned in R5RS. I can't speak for newer standards... 15:25:32 shivani: You must be thinking of an implementation detail of a specific implementation of Scheme, your question doesn't seem to make sense in the context of Scheme itself. (Or something flew over my mind here.) 15:27:39 taylanub: fds : I need to write a parser from concrete syntax to an abstract syntax in scheme , wherein I am trying to write an abstract syntax for http://paste.lisp.org/+2YZO 15:27:51 It is in this context that I was inquiring about "op" 15:28:11 Are there any good resources which would be helpful for the same ? 15:29:36 shivani: Where do you have that BNF from ? 15:29:41 jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:30:13 Scheme standards tend to include a BNF, but implementations generally disregard that and use an s-expression parser to get a plain binary tree into memory, then work on that. 15:31:02 sstrickl [~sstrickl@pool-71-191-94-169.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:31:02 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@pool-71-191-94-169.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:31:02 sstrickl [~sstrickl@racket/sstrickl] has joined #scheme 15:32:06 taylanub: would'nt an s-expression itself be an ast (abstract syntax tree 15:32:08 0) 15:32:09 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #scheme 15:32:48 Not exactly from what I know .. ASTs tend to include more domain-specific information I think. 15:33:03 I am working on a parser to convert the BNF (concrete syntax) into an abstract syntax itself. 15:33:10 E.g. in an s-expression (operator operand1 operand2), nothing says whether the identifier `operator' is a special-form or a variable-reference. 15:34:17 shivani: I think that would be a very atypical way to implement Scheme. (I hope I'm not mistaken, I don't have personal experience in implementing Lisp, maybe someone more experienced will chime in.) 15:34:28 taylanub: AFAIK concrete syntax would include more domain specific information , while AST in my opinion is rid of very definitive domains. 15:34:39 taylanub: okay thankyou :) 15:36:13 Considering this example AST https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Abstract_syntax_tree_for_Euclidean_algorithm.svg we see that it already has information specific to the programming language, e.g. what is a statement, what is a variable, etc. In contrast, s-expressions are a general-purpose serialization of a binary tree (supporting a certain number of leaf-types), which only after reading into memory is started to be 15:36:13 interpreted in the context of Lisp semantics. 15:36:14 http://tinyurl.com/o7f7xwj 15:36:32 The BNF is not meant to be literal: (+ 1 . (2)) is perfectly good Scheme. 15:36:36 racycle [~racycle@75-25-129-128.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:37:09 jcowan: I'm curious, is that actually mentioned in any standard ? 15:37:56 (But yes, that's basically what I mean too.) 15:39:08 possibly in R6RS, definitely nowhere else 15:39:25 taylanub: yes, this example ast makes it much more clearer 15:43:23 still, it is implied by the statements that all expressions are datums, and that (a . (b)) = (a b) 15:44:33 ofzyh [~qicruser@183.62.175.209] has joined #scheme 15:44:49 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:46:03 From the beginning, Scheme compilers have been about tree rewriting stage by stage, sometimes right down to actual code generation. 15:46:40 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:47:01 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:47:14 r5rs: "and the list in the previious paragraph haslo has the representations ( 08 13 ) and (8 . (13 . ())) (see section 6.3.2)" 15:47:24 The original Rabbit compiler had two parts, one to rewrite the raw S-expression into a slightly less raw S-expression, the other to construct an AST which was then decorated (imperatively, this was 1975) until it was possible to generate Maclisp from it. 15:47:39 has also => halso is a very odd spelling mistake, even for me 15:48:07 In some cases, the part 1 S-expression representation, if it was known not to contain anything Scheme-specific (e.g. (+ 1 2)) was just passed through the AST to the code generator and left in verbatim. 15:48:20 ijp: haplogy 15:48:41 it's very common, actually 15:49:08 I am confused , for instance how would (assume ([ ] ...) Exp) be defined as ast in scheme for a parser ? 15:50:09 It depends on the compilation strategy, but perhaps as a record with two fields, operand and operators (the latter being a list) 15:50:37 operand then being another record of the same type 15:51:55 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:36 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 15:54:06 jcowan: did you see the BNF i posted earlier ? 15:55:32 Looked now. 15:55:47 It seems that you want to define several kinds of nodes as records 15:55:56 When you define a record type, you get to say what the names of the fields are. 15:56:24 (In R5RS and earlier Schemes, records are not standardized, but practically all Schemes have them, and almost all Schemes support SRFI-9 records.) 15:57:32 jcowan: This is what I have defined so far http://paste.lisp.org/+2YZP , I am kinda stuck at the last 3 15:57:38 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 15:57:42 herein I have defined opp-symbols separately 15:58:14 for if you probably want three specific fields, predicate consequent alternate. 15:58:21 s/if/"if" 15:58:29 waxysubs [hope3@world.peace.net] has joined #scheme 15:58:55 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:59:29 jcowan : correct , do you mean an "else" gets defined with the fields for "if" itself? since the alternate for "if" will be the consequent of "else" 15:59:48 are there any place I can find the implementations of these ? 16:00:03 There are no *the* implementations. It depends on your purpose. 16:00:28 "else" is part of "cond" syntax, but "cond" is macro-expanded away. 16:01:05 The point is that the three arguments of an "if" are not treated symmetrically, unlike the arguments of a procedure call. 16:01:40 could you elaborate on that ? 16:01:57 how is it reflected in the code base ? 16:02:17 Ripp__ [~textual@c-76-21-7-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:06:26 -!- jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:20 jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 16:12:51 -!- Ripp__ [~textual@c-76-21-7-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ripp__] 16:16:10 alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD5633B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 16:17:05 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-76-4.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:18:27 shivani: The point is that there are three parts to an if-expression with natural names, so the node type corresponding to an if-expression appropriately has three fields. 16:18:38 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 16:19:06 jcowan: correct , yes . 16:19:55 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@racket/sstrickl] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 16:19:56 -!- porco [~porco@125.124.235.73] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 16:30:26 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:32:30 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:33:11 Agent-P [~fk5oxid3@P4111.pallas.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #scheme 16:39:17 Ripp__ [~textual@c-76-21-7-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:39:29 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:40:30 -!- zett_zelett [~zett_zele@p5DE7B135.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:52:15 -!- b4283 [~b4283@118.150.139.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:43 tiksa 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