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haroldwu_irssi [~haroldwu@116.59.236.87] has quit [Client Quit] 04:43:51 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:44:56 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:59:31 haroldwu_irssi [~haroldwu@42-72-178-37.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 05:03:43 -!- haroldwu_irssi [~haroldwu@42-72-178-37.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:04:29 -!- CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:04:46 CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #scheme 05:06:35 -!- SeySayux [SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:06:44 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #scheme 05:06:45 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:09:31 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #scheme 05:12:07 SeySayux [SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has joined #scheme 05:12:48 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:22:10 -!- tabemann [~travisb@adsl-68-254-165-97.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:29:56 -!- Chaos`Eternal [~chaos@140.206.88.109] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:30:30 Chaos`Eternal [~chaos@140.206.255.193] has joined #scheme 05:35:51 haroldwu_irssi [~haroldwu@42-70-58-242.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 05:35:57 ubikation [~quassel@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:40:16 yacks [~py@103.6.158.105] has joined #scheme 05:42:59 boycottg00gle [~user@stgt-5f71a3c0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 05:52:25 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:54:03 In common lisp, I use the documentation, describe, and apropos functions to get help from the REPL. Are there any similar functions for mit-scheme? 05:57:41 mmc1 [~michal@j212142.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 06:00:18 -!- haroldwu_irssi [~haroldwu@42-70-58-242.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:04:43 dan64: im pretty sure that there is not. try asking #scheme 06:04:56 ahem 06:05:17 LOL! 06:05:19 oops 06:05:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-140.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:07:01 CADD, #scheme is the name of this channel, so I am not sure what you mean. Is there a bot that you are referring to? 06:07:49 dan64: no, i made a mistake. i didnt check which channel i was in before responding.. :) thats what happens when you idle in 30-something channels.. lol 06:07:55 -!- zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:08:44 dan64: but to answer your question, iirc no. and it doesnt seem like anyone has come up to correct me 06:09:07 (other than my silly mistake) :) 06:15:47 zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 06:17:27 Riastradh might perhaps know 06:20:08 and seems to suggest some aids 06:20:08 http://tinyurl.com/kteogcl 06:20:08 http://tinyurl.com/luogzde 06:21:03 gazoombo [uid6629@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nsabzlyujmloetfx] has joined #scheme 06:21:50 jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-51.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:22:53 superjudge [~mjl@37-46-176-69.customers.ownit.se] has joined #scheme 06:28:48 -!- racycle [~racycle@75-25-129-128.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote 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[~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:59:59 condy [~condy@113.140.86.66] has joined #scheme 11:07:46 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 11:13:35 Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 11:14:28 pnpuff [~Y3_2882@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #scheme 11:15:01 -!- pnpuff [~Y3_2882@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #scheme 11:16:45 ogamita` [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #scheme 11:19:02 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:19:33 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:20:30 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #scheme 11:22:23 bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 11:31:49 -!- Daemmerung [~goetter@63.142.200.228] has quit [Quit: Smoove out.] 11:32:22 kuribas [~user@d54C430B0.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 11:33:47 -!- ogamita` [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:34:32 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:42:57 ASau` [~user@p4FF96920.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 11:43:07 -!- ubikation [~quassel@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:46:31 -!- ASau [~user@p5797FB72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:51:10 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 11:56:15 -!- haroldwu_irssi [~haroldwu@42-72-152-165.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:02:57 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:03:51 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-40-24-153.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 12:06:09 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #scheme 12:08:27 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:11:54 Chaos`Eternal [~chaos@202.111.192.34] has joined #scheme 12:12:17 What would be the best way to have a kind of object that can be created and initialized separately, yet is immutable after the initialization ? 12:14:57 if only a initialization procedure is exported, and no setter, then you're done, no? 12:17:19 Indeed, it should be trivial to implement. I wished there might be a concrete idiomatic way to do it, but I suppose there isn't. 12:24:49 miloshadzic [~miloshadz@213.137.110.174] has joined #scheme 12:26:10 boycottg00gle [~user@stgt-5f71a3c0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 12:27:15 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:56 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:32:56 -!- Giomancer [~gio@107.201.206.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:06 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #scheme 12:36:06 b4283 [~b4283@118.150.139.66] has joined #scheme 12:36:54 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:37:07 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:43:50 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:45:46 Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 12:46:04 interesting, taylanub, you want to mutate an immutable object after it's initialization ? or before? 12:46:21 -!- dpk [~r00t@obquire.infologie.co] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:48:27 I want to "declare" and "initialize" it separately, like "incomplete types" in the typing system of C. 12:50:17 It's mainly useful for cyclic immutable structures. 12:51:23 Logically, one structure needs to be created before the other is, but still reference the yet-to-be-created one. 12:52:06 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 12:52:26 So that one must be "declared" first, "initialized" later, thus if we want it to be otherwise immutable we basically want a once-mutable object. 12:52:31 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:53:06 -!- metasyntax [~tvenable@proxy5.med-web.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:54:30 I fear by the way that the "manual" implementation of this will possibly confuse the optimizer of the implementation; the once-only nature of the mutation will be achieved through some dynamic parameter and the optimizer will have difficulty (if it's possible at all) to prove this property ... 12:54:37 use delay 12:55:06 Oh ... that could be my silver bullet, let me check .. 12:55:20 rudybot: (require srfi/41) 12:55:21 ijp: your r5rs sandbox is ready 12:55:22 ijp: error: require: undefined; cannot reference an identifier before its definition in module: 'program 12:55:27 rudybot: init racket 12:55:28 ijp: your sandbox is ready 12:55:29 rudybot: (require srfi/41) 12:55:30 ijp: Done. 12:55:32 Are you basically after Java's "final" semantics? 12:55:48 rudybot: (define one-two (stream-append (stream 1 2) one-two)) 12:55:48 ijp: error: one-two: undefined; cannot reference an identifier before its definition in module: 'program 12:56:03 Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 12:56:05 groan, naturally 12:56:07 LeoNerd: I don't know what those are, although I reckon having read about them. 12:56:29 A variable that can be assigned to exactly once 12:56:34 rudybot: (define one-two (stream-cons 1 (stream-cons 2 one-two))) 12:56:34 ijp: Done. 12:56:42 rudybot: (stream->list one-two 10) 12:56:43 ijp: error: stream->list: non-stream argument 12:56:49 rudybot: (stream->list 10 one-two) 12:56:49 ijp: ; Value: '(1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2) 12:57:06 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD9461A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:57:15 remember kids, prepare your examples off-channel 12:57:26 lol 12:57:37 davexunit [~user@38.104.7.18] has joined #scheme 12:57:58 taylanub [tub@p4FD9461A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 12:58:00 -!- tenq|away is now known as tenq 12:58:06 I hate it when optionals don't come at the end 12:58:20 (Emacs crashed. :( ) 12:58:25 because I will forget, every single time 12:59:02 ijp: I thought that was how it was, so it's not true? 12:59:06 bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 12:59:12 I mean, I thought they always was at the end. 12:59:45 well, I just gave a counterexample in stream->list 12:59:58 rudybot: (stream->list (stream 1 2 3 4 5 6)) 12:59:58 ijp: ; Value: '(1 2 3 4 5 6) 13:00:01 rudybot: (stream->list 3 (stream 1 2 3 4 5 6)) 13:00:01 ijp: ; Value: '(1 2 3) 13:00:12 Yeah, didn't see that it had any optionals, but oh well.. 13:00:21 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:01:37 Oh well, that's... kinda annoying. 13:02:38 Is it specified that a `letrec'-bound variable that hasn't been initialized yet will work with `delay' the way it does with `lambda' ? 13:03:05 yes 13:03:19 Neat. 13:03:46 assuming you don't do something like (letrec ((foo (force (delay force)))) foo) 13:04:00 True. 13:04:20 now, that is pathologically bad code, but I had a similar problem once before 13:04:38 Did you mean s/force/foo/2 BTW ? 13:04:53 yes 13:04:59 OK 13:05:51 remember kids, prepare your examples off-channel 13:06:11 good advice, and one day I will take it 13:09:00 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:09:30 haroldwu_irssi [~haroldwu@116.59.237.98] has joined #scheme 13:11:19 -!- iemejia [~ismael@apache2-noxim.yoda.dreamhost.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:33 defanor [~d@ppp91-77-123-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 13:13:47 scheme@(guile-user)> (letrec* ((foo (delay (cons 'x bar))) (bar (cons 'y (force foo)))) (force foo)) 13:13:47 $4 = (x . #) 13:13:53 Does that somehow look right to you ? :\ 13:14:19 Saeren_ [~saeren@mail.skepsi.net] has joined #scheme 13:14:28 *taylanub* would have expected an exception actually. 13:14:29 the answer looks right, the code looks wrong 13:14:54 -!- defanor_ [~d@ppp91-77-140-200.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:15:30 Does the code not try to reference a variable defined but not initialized-yet by letrec*, which should raise an error ? 13:15:56 bar, that is 13:16:34 Welp, (letrec* ((foo foo)) foo) is also *unspecified*. 13:17:34 Uh, apparently Guile 2.0.9 never raises an error for variables bound but not initialized by `letrec' and `letrec*'. 13:17:47 antoszka_ [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 13:18:21 cpach_ [~cpach@78.73.242.125] has joined #scheme 13:18:36 I.e. even (letrec ((foo bar) (bar foo)) foo) does not raise an error. Maybe the standards don't mandate the signalling of the error and just say "it's an error", but I would definitely be for raising an error there .. /me goes to #guile 13:19:09 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:19:21 -!- antoszka_ is now known as antoszka 13:19:35 -!- haroldwu_irssi is now known as haroldwu 13:20:37 tali713_ [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:1411:7c9b:b3ee:137e] has joined #scheme 13:20:52 C_Keen [cckeen@pestilenz.org] has joined #scheme 13:20:59 vnz_ [~vnz@unaffiliated/vnz] has joined #scheme 13:21:00 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:21:34 -!- C-Keen [cckeen@pestilenz.org] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:22:06 -!- vnz [~vnz@unaffiliated/vnz] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:22:06 -!- fizzie [fis@unaffiliated/fizzie] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:22:06 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:1411:7c9b:b3ee:137e] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:22:06 -!- Saeren [~saeren@mail.skepsi.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:22:07 -!- cpach [~cpach@h125n2-veo-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:22:07 -!- vnz_ is now known as vnz 13:22:08 -!- tali713_ is now known as tali713 13:22:26 fizzie [fis@unaffiliated/fizzie] has joined #scheme 13:23:49 -!- C_Keen is now known as C-Keen 13:26:09 -!- GlenK [~GlenK@vpn.lax-noc.com] has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 13:27:42 GlenK [~GlenK@vpn.lax-noc.com] has joined #scheme 13:32:53 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #scheme 13:37:08 ijp: Hrm, I think `delay' is not really relevant to the issue .. the essence of my problem is: suppose you have a record type :cons with fields car and cdr but no setters; how do you make a cyclic list ? 13:38:52 and you think delay doesn't solve this problem because ... 13:39:41 it's not optimal. delay is a special form, you now have to force on field acesses, blah, blah, blah 13:39:58 Ah, have to force on field accesses, that's the thing .. 13:41:04 unless the user is reflecting on the record, how are they going to know if you provide a new accessor? 13:41:23 which goes back to civodul's suggestion 13:41:48 you want cyclic structure, there's no way around mutation, unless you create the structure all at once 13:42:58 which is a tautology but never mind 13:46:34 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #scheme 13:47:04 -!- sttau [~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:47:23 -!- kbtr [~kbtr@li198-73.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:52:00 functionally, i think the thing you actually want is Y 13:52:46 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-46-2.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:02 Chaos`Eternal: scheme is eager, so you still need to delay evaluation somehow 13:53:12 yeah 13:53:37 agree 13:53:53 delay and Y 13:54:08 metasyntax [~tvenable@proxy5.med-web.com] has joined #scheme 13:54:57 I didn't mean it like that 13:55:43 lambda is how we delay evaluation, 'delay' is just lambda+memoisation 13:57:31 sttau [~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has joined #scheme 13:58:31 kbtr [~kbtr@li198-73.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 13:59:58 "Y" ? 14:00:11 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:00:38 Chaos`Eternal: compare (define y (lambda (p) ((lambda (f) (f f)) (lambda (f) (p (f f)))))) and (define y (lambda (p) ((lambda (f) (f f)) (lambda (f) (p (lambda args (apply (f f) args))))))) 14:00:41 BTW after some brainfarting due to tiredness I figured out how I need to use promises in my library to solve my problem, thanks for the pointer! 14:00:57 .oO( How is the y-combinator related now ? :P ) 14:01:09 -!- miloshadzic [~miloshadz@213.137.110.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:01:34 taylanub: circular structures = recursive data => y is involved somehow 14:02:34 Heh, fair enough. :P 14:02:55 *taylanub* makes a snarky remark on Y not being the only fixed-point combinator. 14:03:03 no, but it is the most famous one 14:03:05 carleastlund [~carleastl@209-6-40-238.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 14:03:07 (define (cons x y) (lambda (e) (if (eq? e 'car) x (cons y x)))) 14:03:29 (car (cdr (cdr (cdr (cons 1 2))))) ;2 14:03:37 -!- YoungFrog [~youngfrog@geodiff-mac3.ulb.ac.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:45 that's it 14:03:50 it's cyclic 14:04:51 forget this: (define (car x) (x 'car)) 14:05:22 and (defien (cdr x) (x 'cdr)) 14:06:09 it's infinite, whether or not it's circular is up for debate 14:06:33 rudybot: is it circular? 14:06:35 -!- ogamita is now known as Guest42462 14:06:35 wingo: It is, after all, the canonical toy example in which a circular list is demonstrated 14:06:42 for instance (cdr (cdr x)) is not eqv? to x 14:06:42 word. 14:06:54 ogamita` [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #scheme 14:07:10 ijp, not cyclic 14:07:30 they are not eqv? 14:07:32 anyway, I'm reminded of a famous saying about skinning cats 14:08:05 -!- Guest42462 [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:08:07 A Satanist koan ? 14:08:41 -!- ogamita` is now known as ogamita 14:09:04 rudybot: how many ways are there to skin a cat? 14:09:06 ijp: bpa is absorbed by the skin (or are you one of those that uses gloves while typing?) 14:10:45 taylanub: http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/there-is-more-than-one-way-to-skin-a-cat.html 14:10:45 http://tinyurl.com/83phfh7 14:11:36 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:13:00 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #scheme 14:13:43 *taylanub* now wonders how the lazy-evaluation primitives interact with common optimization strategies. 14:13:50 everyone loves a good animal cruelty metaphor 14:14:59 animals are not cruel. They chew on you just because they're hungry, not because they're evil. 14:15:03 *taylanub* playes around with Guile's ,optimize to test a couple things. Gotta love REPLs. 14:15:54 ogamita: I thought a great deal of prey animals hunt for fun, most notable how cats kill mice and insects. 14:15:59 ogamita: you may be the first person I've ever seen to take a stance against the phrase "animal cruelty" on pro-animal grounds 14:16:15 (That too. :P I went with the misinterpretation.) 14:19:39 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-36-114.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 14:21:26 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:22:29 -!- condy [~condy@113.140.86.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:23:16 stamourv` [~user@syrah.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 14:24:15 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #scheme 14:28:25 -!- joast [~rick@cpe-24-160-56-92.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:31:51 rudybot: (take (shared ([x (cons 1 x)]) x) 10) 14:31:52 stamourv`: your sandbox is ready 14:31:52 stamourv`: ; Value: '(1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1) 14:32:00 taylanub: Is that what you were looking for? 14:34:04 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 14:35:55 How does this `shared' work ? In any case, `delay' (or `lambda') does what I needed: store a reference to a *variable* without referencing it yet. 14:37:57 presumably it mutates under the hood 14:38:39 which surely means it can't be written in racket, or they have special hidden list mutators they aren't telling us about :P 14:39:03 *ijp* goes for a stroll 14:40:54 shared seems to just create shared structure, no mutation needed 14:42:46 taylanub: but cats eventually eat them mice, unless they're overfed at home. They just like to bring them back to eat them in their place. 14:43:02 taylanub: The implementation is at: https://github.com/plt/racket/blob/master/racket/collects/racket/private/shared-body.rktl 14:43:03 http://tinyurl.com/klqybvq 14:44:05 Those brackets hurt my eyes for some reason .. :P 14:45:25 And that's way too much for my mind to handle ATM. Have to get some syntax-case practice. 14:45:45 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:46:16 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:46:34 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 14:48:46 dan64, (apropos "xyz") and (pp (f x y z)) are both useful. 14:49:19 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-2-40-24-153.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:57:05 -!- superjudge [~mjl@37-46-176-69.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:58:29 -!- boycottg00gle [~user@stgt-5f71a3c0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:22 joast [~rick@cpe-24-160-56-92.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 15:04:04 pnpuff [~l@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #scheme 15:04:24 -!- pnpuff [~l@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #scheme 15:10:40 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:43 bjz_ [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 15:11:42 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #scheme 15:14:36 racycle [~racycle@75-25-129-128.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 15:16:24 -!- alexei [~amgarchin@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:19:33 duggiefresh [~dyun@c1fw239.constantcontact.com] has joined #scheme 15:20:25 Belaf [~campedel@net-2-40-24-153.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 15:31:04 miloshadzic [~miloshadz@213.137.110.174] has joined #scheme 15:31:46 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has joined #scheme 15:46:36 whoa so () is not even allowed in scheme? (i.e. empty list)? 15:47:49 one more thing...is cons the only way to add a new item to a list? 15:47:59 append adds a LIST but how add an ATOM? 15:48:52 (append l (list x)) 15:49:39 theseb: A bare () in Scheme code is "an error" as per the standards. "An error" does not need to raise an exception or so, and many implementations allow () as a synonym to '(). A list is passed around via the first cons cell in its chain, and elements can be added by mutating any of the cons cells in its chain. 15:49:42 *taylanub* AFK 15:50:51 Riastradh: aha..that works if you wrap the atom you want to add in a list...e.g. (append '(1) '(2 3 4)) 15:51:01 gives (1 2 3 4) 15:51:38 here's the deal...i think pairs and cons are icky...my secret plan is to avoid pairs and (list ....) and (append ....) allow me to do that!!!! mwahahaha 15:52:16 i NEVER want expose that lists are IMPLEMENTED with cons pairs...i just want to always display/show lists 15:52:37 i may not even decide to implement them as linked lists (cons pairs) 15:52:59 -!- tenq is now known as tenq|away 15:53:41 theseb: you do realise that (cons 1 '(2 3 4)) is probably to be preferred to (append '(1) '(2 3 4)) in most cases? 15:53:43 so you don't even want to do (cons 1 '(2 3 4)) ? 15:54:06 lol 15:54:51 You should consider avoiding any sort of fixation on `atoms' versus `lists'. For example, if you set down a rule that (append ) has the effect of putting at the front of , and (append ) concatenates the two lists, then how will you put a list into a list? 15:55:06 (The word `atom' is basically useless in real Lisp programs.) 15:55:30 add^_, ecraven: admittedly (cons 1 '(2 3 4)) is nicer but if someone does (cons 1 2) i am forced to display a non-list which bites 15:56:48 theseb: indeed, you are displaying a cons cell :) 15:57:02 alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD638EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 15:57:11 why do you dislike cons cells? 15:57:36 It is perfectly valid to be wanting to work on the list abstract data type level. 15:57:39 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD9461A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:57:53 (define first car) (define rest cdr) (define prepend cons) 15:58:05 taylanub [tub@p4FD9150F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 15:58:14 (prepend 1 (append (list 2 3 4) (list 5))) --> (1 2 3 4 5) 15:58:52 ecraven: because lists do everything for me.....it is cleanest imho to think of scheme as just atoms and lists 15:59:11 theseb: but "just atoms and lists" is not Scheme :) 15:59:17 ecraven: i agree an alternative is to think of scheme as just atoms and cons cells BUT.... 15:59:45 theseb: `atom' is a word that is not used much in modern Scheme parlance 15:59:46 ecraven: that introduces the complexity of having to distinguish between cons cells that = lists and fact they display differently 16:00:19 theseb: i do not dispute your ideas, but what you are proposing is in fact not Scheme, but some other dialect of lisp 16:00:31 -!- tenq|away is now known as tenq 16:00:52 i don't want to have to explain that a "list" is really some rube-goldberg thingie (1 . (2 . (3 . (4 . ())))) or whatever 16:00:57 -!- haroldwu [~haroldwu@116.59.237.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:01:13 i don't see much added value in that 16:01:35 theseb: did you write recursive functions on lists yet? 16:01:51 ecraven: no? am i in for a surprise? 16:01:53 something like summing all numbers in a list? or implementing MAP? 16:01:57 ecraven: Isn't "atom" defined as "anything that's not a list" anyway? 16:02:07 stamourv: in my world YES 16:02:18 with perhaps some issues with () 16:02:28 theseb: yes, try implementing those, you'll see why lists are cons cells 16:02:33 theseb: The empty list is a list. 16:03:03 stamourv`: I'm not sure in Scheme. In CL, probably :) Personally, I don't see much atomicity in a vector or a record 16:03:19 stamourv: in some places iirc () is a list and an atom 16:03:41 theseb: (list? '()) is always #t 16:03:49 ogamita: (add1 you). I often want to think of lists abstractly. Makes OO reasoning easier. :) 16:03:58 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:04:55 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:05:09 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:13 ecraven: I don't think the term "atom" really means anything in Scheme-land anyway. When people do want to use it (for hysterical raisins, mostly, AFAICT), they tend to define it as `(negate list?)' IME. 16:05:18 -!- sttau [~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:05:40 And yes, I agree that neither vectors nor records are really atomic. 16:06:03 But then again, these tend to be conveniently ignored by anyone who wants to use the term "atom" anyway. 16:06:46 Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 16:07:20 stamourv`: thus I'd rather not use the word `atom' to describe any Scheme concept (except in, for example, a physics application :) 16:07:36 (add1 ecraven) 16:08:40 hehe, MIT/GNU Scheme defines 1+ and -1+ procedures :) 16:08:50 -1+ ? 16:09:05 (- x 1) 16:09:21 Why the trailing + ? 16:09:28 -1 by itself is not a valid symbol (it's a number) 16:09:29 LeoNerd: Can't just be `-1'. 16:09:36 Ahhyes 16:09:44 I tend to call those succ and pred 16:09:54 -!- rgrau [~user@164.Red-79-151-55.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10:03 sttau [~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has joined #scheme 16:10:54 ecraven: is the reason you say Scheme is not just atoms and lists because of the introduction of extra advanced structures like vectors and records? 16:11:17 theseb : seen "Purely Functional Random-Access Pairs and Lists" by David Van Horn in 2009 at ? 16:11:26 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:11:27 ski: ok..thanks 16:11:28 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:11:39 (that's SRFI 101, forgot to say) 16:11:58 Daemmerung [~goetter@63.142.200.228] has joined #scheme 16:12:00 ski: it says so in the url otherwise ;-) 16:12:01 -!- miloshadzic [~miloshadz@213.137.110.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:12:08 theseb: yes, to me, an `atom' is a number or a symbol or (debatably) a string. the notion of `atom' made much more sense in earlier lisps (I believe) 16:12:23 add^_ : yeah, if you already know what to look for :) 16:12:44 lol 16:12:45 True 16:13:30 atoms makes sense in CL. But not so much in Scheme I suppose.. 16:14:01 add^_: well but ecraven's point is that modern lisps add so much extra goodies that atoms makes no sense 16:14:08 add^_: think vectors, records and .... 16:14:26 add^_: that is true even in CL no? 16:14:36 *ski* . o O ( "atoms make sense in Prolog .." ) 16:14:41 I am not familiar enough with CL to decide on the usefulness of the notion of `atom' in CL :) 16:15:04 Ok, I guess I shouldn't have said something that didn't make sense xD 16:15:51 It's not a useful idea in Common Lisp either. 16:15:52 I suppose it all boils down to certain terminology. But I could be wrong. 16:16:09 Riastradh: was it ever? in older lisps? 16:17:17 Come to think of it, I never ever used the atomp or anything like it in CL nor Scheme.. 16:17:24 Uh 16:17:31 I'll shut up now.. 16:19:03 In 1960, sure... 16:19:13 Gotta run. 16:19:14 *poof* 16:22:39 -!- b4283 [~b4283@118.150.139.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:09 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26:24 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 16:27:21 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 16:28:15 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-51.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:28:57 sstrickl [~sstrickl@racket/sstrickl] has joined #scheme 16:32:47 ski: any idea how those stack up against the fingertree version of sequences? 16:33:29 hm, no 16:35:54 fair enough :) 16:39:16 tupi [~user@139.82.89.157] has joined #scheme 16:41:55 is (negative? -0.0) true or unspecified? 16:45:57 it would be #f 16:46:17 strange 16:46:19 The zero? procedure tests if the number object is = to zero, positive? tests whether it is greater than zero, negative? tests whether it is _less than zero_, 16:46:58 the r6rs has a note about it 16:47:09 well it has one for flnegative? 16:47:23 "Note: (flnegative? -0.0) must return #f, else it would lose the correspondence with (fl< -0.0 0.0), which is #f according to IEEE 754 [7]." 16:47:50 I would imagine positive? zero? negative? to be mutually-exclusive 16:47:59 just so 16:49:43 ok... I guess that makes sense 16:55:28 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@racket/sstrickl] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 16:55:32 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 16:55:32 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:56:23 "Flonums implement IEEE semantics, not algebraic ones" -jcowan 16:58:20 of course, otherwise we wouldn't need, among other things, a negative zero 16:59:18 so then, what should odd? and even? do with non-integers? 16:59:44 raise an exception 16:59:45 &assertion-violation, I think 17:00:28 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@89.202.203.51] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:00:58 what about inexact numbers? I'm getting different behavior depending on the interpreter I test it on 17:01:23 like (even? 2.0) is giving an error on some but #t on others 17:01:34 You know; I think the ability to use hyphens in symbol names is the one Scheme feature I miss most that's lacking in prettymuch any other language. 17:01:54 LeoNerd: i've always been an underscore fan myself 17:02:09 I think it looks uglier, though 17:02:16 do-x-with-y vs do_x_with_y 17:02:25 I like how sql does identifiers 17:02:40 I don't really like anything else about sql though 17:03:02 `identifier-here` ? 17:03:22 strings are quoted with ', identifiers with " 17:03:34 LeoNerd: _ may just be from my C and python roots 17:04:53 tsuyoshi: check (integer? 2.0) on those systems 17:05:05 tsuyoshi: it's behaviour on inexact integers isn't specified directly (as far as I can see), but I you could infer from one of the examples that it should work 17:05:54 rudybot: eval (integer? 2.0) 17:05:55 Daemmerung: your sandbox is ready 17:05:55 Daemmerung: ; Value: #t 17:06:01 yay, rudy's still alive 17:06:23 and r6rs does have the procedures flodd? and fleven? in that weird flonums module 17:06:24 Daemmerung: (integer? 2.0) is true on everything 17:06:47 this was wrt your `odd?' query. odd? and even? are defined only on integers 17:06:52 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-192-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 17:07:09 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07:19 yeah but on scm, (integer? 2.0) gives #t but (even? 2.0) gives an error 17:07:46 personally I'd call that a bug 17:07:49 *Daemmerung* nods 17:07:56 ok 17:08:19 this tells me that my implementation of integer? is wrong, though 17:10:04 you wouldn't be the first implementation to specify supporting only exact integers. 17:11:10 -!- alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD638EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:11:17 alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD638EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:12:46 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 17:13:19 well, I'm supporting floats as inexact numbers 17:13:43 and I had integer? the same as exact?, which I'm supposing now is wrong 17:16:54 you can have exacts that aren't integers 17:17:03 rudybot: (exact? (/ 10 3)) 17:17:03 ijp: your sandbox is ready 17:17:03 ijp: ; Value: #t 17:17:12 rudybot: (exact? 3+3i) 17:17:12 ijp: ; Value: #t 17:17:31 rational and complex respectively 17:17:34 i see my proposal for schemebot was vetoed 17:17:39 >:( 17:18:19 at least a name related to lisp would be nice 17:18:25 e.g. mccarthybot 17:18:31 or paulgrahambot 17:18:31 :) 17:18:47 lambdabot 17:18:50 *ijp* flays theseb with a hose 17:18:59 the name lambdabot is taken by the #haskell bot 17:19:09 s/he who writes the bot gets to name the bot. 17:19:14 yeah but I'm not bothering with exact rationals... 17:20:17 you sound a lot like Bigloo, which makes those same C-ish design decisions 17:21:15 well, in my case it's sml-ish 17:22:46 so even?/odd? only take integers... so (even? 2.0) should be true and (even? 2.1) should be an error 17:26:25 cosmez [~cosmez@200.92.100.68] has joined #scheme 17:35:42 sstrickl [~sstrickl@129-2-129-155.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #scheme 17:35:42 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@129-2-129-155.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Changing host] 17:35:42 sstrickl [~sstrickl@racket/sstrickl] has joined #scheme 17:36:06 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C430B0.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:40:02 ubikation [~quassel@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:45:54 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:46:44 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 17:51:27 Ripp__ [~Ripp___@c-67-180-16-120.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:52:44 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #scheme 17:53:50 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #scheme 17:55:23 -!- edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:59:15 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 17:59:19 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:49 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:59:58 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 18:13:30 vraid [~vraid@c80-216-227-77.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 18:13:34 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 18:15:37 alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD638EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:15:38 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD638EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:20:19 mmc1 [~michal@j212142.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 18:20:35 _ffio_ [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has joined #scheme 18:20:55 -!- ffio_ [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:22:10 is there any scheme implementation that supports exact and inexact flonums? 18:24:50 -!- sttau [~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:28:21 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:30:28 rudybot: nick cheesesteakbot 18:30:29 -!- rudybot is now known as cheesesteakbot 18:30:45 hmm, he took that rather literally 18:30:49 cheesesteakbot: nick rudybot 18:30:50 -!- cheesesteakbot is now known as rudybot 18:31:03 *offby1* whistles innocently 18:31:34 sttau [~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has joined #scheme 18:33:53 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 18:34:39 an exact flonum sounds like a contradiction 18:34:50 rudybot: (exact? 4.0) 18:34:50 ijp: ; Value: #f 18:35:01 miloshadzic [~miloshadz@178-222-63-154.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #scheme 18:39:31 -!- miloshadzic [~miloshadz@178-222-63-154.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:40:49 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:44:32 ijp: that depends, you can easily work out (* 0.4 0.1) exactly (with a non-IEEE representation) 18:45:41 ijp: sounds like a matter of definition, each flonum is exact after rounding has been applied 18:46:04 but i agree, the question is strange 18:47:27 rudybot: (exact? #e4.0) 18:47:28 *offby1: your sandbox is ready 18:47:28 *offby1: ; Value: #t 18:47:30 *offby1* whistles innocently 18:50:06 rudybot: (exact? #e0.25) 18:50:07 ecraven: your sandbox is ready 18:50:07 ecraven: ; Value: #t 18:50:11 rudybot: (exact? #e0.1) 18:50:11 ecraven: ; Value: #t 18:50:17 rudybot: (exact? #e0.2) 18:50:17 ecraven: ; Value: #t 18:54:07 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:08 not all reals are flonums. 19:06:41 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-170-78-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:08:20 -!- _ffio_ [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:10:58 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #scheme 19:22:57 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 19:27:51 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #scheme 19:28:43 -!- Ripp__ [~Ripp___@c-67-180-16-120.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:40:54 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@racket/sstrickl] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 19:42:49 Ripp__ [~Ripp___@c-67-180-16-120.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:48:00 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f769154.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:54:08 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f769154.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 19:56:38 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 19:57:59 -!- wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:08:46 jao [~jao@55.Red-79-148-157.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:08:49 -!- jao [~jao@55.Red-79-148-157.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:08:49 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 20:12:16 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:14:14 sstrickl [~sstrickl@racket/sstrickl] has joined #scheme 20:15:25 wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 20:18:15 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #scheme 20:20:46 civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has joined #scheme 20:29:12 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:33:18 -!- superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:36:37 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 20:38:43 -!- Shoozza [shoozza@unaffiliated/shoozza] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:38:50 Shoozza [shoozza@unaffiliated/shoozza] has joined #scheme 20:45:02 pnkfelix [~Adium@bas75-2-88-170-201-21.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 20:57:09 -!- superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:59:10 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:00:35 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:20 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 21:02:42 -!- Shoozza [shoozza@unaffiliated/shoozza] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:03:18 Shoozza [shoozza@unaffiliated/shoozza] has joined #scheme 21:03:23 -!- Ripp__ [~Ripp___@c-67-180-16-120.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:03:32 -!- davexunit [~user@38.104.7.18] has quit [Quit: Later] 21:04:32 Ripp__ [~Ripp___@c-67-180-16-120.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:06:09 -!- duggiefresh [~dyun@c1fw239.constantcontact.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:12:53 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:14:38 -!- pothos [~pothos@114-36-247-93.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:21:26 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-198-98.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:22:49 -!- wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:29:48 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #scheme 21:30:22 just checking....alists are defined as lists of pairs but not as lists of *cons* pairs right? 21:30:40 the reason i'm asking is MIT Scheme docs says this is an alist..((a 1) (b 2) (c 3))). 21:31:05 i would have guessed ((a . 1) (b . 2) (c . 3)) 21:31:09 no? 21:35:04 Giomancer [~gio@107.201.206.230] has joined #scheme 21:36:05 well, I've seen people do ((a 1) (b 2) ...) just because it looks nicer, but usually alist means the latter 21:38:01 Well, you could still just use car of the result in that case 21:38:07 any pair. what's in the cdr of the pair is up to you. 21:38:12 kuribas [~user@d54C430B0.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 21:41:25 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:44:07 Daemmerung: ah so *either* works..ok thanks 21:45:27 -!- alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD638EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:48:22 -!- LAMMJohnson [~ja@user-5af4304c.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:39 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 21:49:29 Remember, (a 1) is just pretty notation for (a . (1)) aka (a . (1 . ())) 21:50:41 rudybot: (assoc 'b '((a . 1) (b . 2) (c . 3))) 21:50:42 ijp: ; Value: '(b . 2) 21:50:48 rudybot: (assoc 'b '((a 1) (b 2) (c 3))) 21:50:48 ijp: ; Value: '(b 2) 21:51:10 theseb: so, yes, both work. The only difference is how you access your result 21:51:15 LAMMJohnson [~ja@user-5af4304c.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #scheme 21:51:19 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:52:59 -!- edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:03:19 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #scheme 22:03:50 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:04:21 -!- LAMMJohnson [~ja@user-5af4304c.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:53 davexunit [~user@c-71-232-35-199.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:14:00 part 22:14:05 ha. oops 22:14:06 -!- GlenK [~GlenK@vpn.lax-noc.com] has left #scheme 22:16:18 ogamita [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-54-119.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 22:19:35 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:19:45 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #scheme 22:19:49 -!- ubikation [~quassel@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:22:10 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C430B0.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:26:22 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:26:54 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF96920.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: fixing X.] 22:27:58 ASau [~user@p4FF96920.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:40:15 -!- tupi [~user@139.82.89.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:06 -!- noam [~noam@213.57.201.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:30 noam [~noam@213.57.201.130] has joined #scheme 22:48:31 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@bas75-2-88-170-201-21.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:53 pnkfelix [~Adium@bas75-2-88-170-201-21.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 22:49:15 sc00fy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 22:49:45 -!- dsp_ [~dsp@technoanimal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:53 dsp_ [~dsp@technoanimal.net] has joined #scheme 22:50:50 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:52:32 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:57:35 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:58:16 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:58:21 -!- sc00fy is now known as scoofy 22:59:29 xilo [~xilo@107-209-248-232.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 22:59:30 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@bas75-2-88-170-201-21.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:17:53 -!- ogamita [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-54-119.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:22:00 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-145-216.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:58 -!- mrowe_away is now known as mrowe 23:25:08 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 23:26:04 LAMMJohnson [~ja@user-5af4304c.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #scheme 23:31:47 -!- vraid [~vraid@c80-216-227-77.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:34:36 -!- youlysses [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:44:42 -!- stamourv is now known as stamourv`` 23:46:10 -!- LAMMJohnson [~ja@user-5af4304c.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:27 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #scheme 23:55:46 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:56:01 fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme