00:00:07 But all these functions are very C-like, and they are hard to use even in C. I can't imagine using them in lisp like language. 00:00:46 they're not any harder to use in lisp 00:00:49 Well, the issue is using Lisp-like languages to interact with programs written in C. There's going to be some oddness no matter what you do. 00:01:23 -!- alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD565AD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:02:00 so from this very long discussion I recall that there are no good ways of making it, and the easiest would probably be scsh ? 00:02:13 Nothing wrong with scsh 00:02:41 I don't know what `C-like' means here or how C is relevant, except insofar as the implementation of the subprocess support has to interact with a C API (which, while hard to use, is badly used in most Lisp systems I've seen, probably because the authors have a moral objection to paying attention to C APIs). 00:02:48 pumpkin360: Umm, no, I'd say both scsh and Racket, and probably a couple of other Schemes mentioned above, would be perfectly fine for your purposes. 00:03:33 this could probably be done in bash actually, with the assistance of a named pipe 00:03:54 -!- ffio [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:04:01 Riastradh: "C-like" means "interfacing with other things only by means of an imperative stream of fixed-bit-width values, rather than having a GC'd VM where processes can share higher order values like civilized human beings" 00:04:35 I'll admit that second thing mostly only exists for multiple-program interactions _in my imagination_, but it is a nice thing nevertheless 00:04:50 ffio_ [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has joined #scheme 00:04:58 carleastlund: thx. So will try to write it in Scheme, although not sure if I shouldn't make in C. 00:05:02 This is why I try never to leave my nice, single-language-application coccoon of safety. 00:05:14 is scheme48 for 64-bit availible in the arch repo ? 00:05:37 pumpkin360: Try in something Scheme-like; if that fails, try a shell or scripting language. There is no need to go all the way down to C for this. 00:05:39 jcowan, no, there are plenty of things wrong with scsh... For example, it's dead, and it's stuck in the 32-bit world. 00:06:01 Scheme as a whole is stuck in the 1980s, so that doesn't bother me. 00:06:40 So I write in a 1980s language (or several) on a 1970s platform. Hey, it suits my large and club-like fingers. 00:07:01 carleastlund: At first I though it will be nice to do it in C because of it's nice interaction with UNIX. Never have been so wrong. :D 00:07:22 Just about nothing is nice to do in C, except for the few things that only C can do. 00:07:43 Well, doing things in C isn't so bad if you have a GC 00:09:19 carleastlund: never the less I like C. (the feeling that You work with the CPU, and it doesn't forgive or make anything for You if not stated preciselly... awsome) 00:09:39 *nevertheless 00:09:56 *awesome 00:10:09 well, depending on your compiler, you may not really be working that closely with the CPU 00:10:19 but when it comes down to APIs ... 00:10:24 Yeah, you are working with a 1990s virtual CPU 00:10:36 or perhaps also 1970s, not sure. 00:11:31 it's still better than somekind of JVM ... Java is the total opposite of C - I don't like it. 00:11:46 pumpkin360: Also, because C doesn't have a precise spec, the compiiler can do plenty of things because your program cannot be stated precisely. Ironically, it's languages like Lisp/Scheme where you have a more precise notion of what the computer is allowed to do. 00:11:47 carleastlund, when complex programs have to interact, passing around complex higher-order values between them makes them harder to understand, not easier... 00:12:02 Riastradh: bullshit. 00:12:07 What do you mean? C has a very precise specification. 00:12:27 Yes, full of undefined behavior. But then, so is Scheme's specification. 00:12:32 Oh yeah? What happens when you pick a random pointer and write to that address plus 1,058,999? 00:12:33 Right. 00:12:37 Riastradh: +1 for bullshit 00:12:53 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:13:13 Kojimoto [~Jeremy@69-84-118-201-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has joined #scheme 00:13:18 I agree that keeping interfaces between mutually suspicious programs is a win 00:13:34 I also like the unidirectionality of (classical) C/Unix programming 00:13:46 Scheme is every precise compared to C I guees. Just as carleastlund said, C has many unsecified things. 00:13:46 that is, data flows from node to node, not back and forth client/server style 00:13:54 Scheme does too, trust me on this. 00:14:07 Count the number of "is an error" in the Scheme spec, relative to its size 00:14:12 (excluding R6RS) 00:14:18 Arbitrary restrictions on APIs do not make things easier to understand. It makes security easier, maybe, but if you actually have a complicated, higher-order API you need to get done, and have to express it using ports your API becomes _a mess_. 00:14:19 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #scheme 00:14:51 The Scheme spec itself, with all its "is undefined", is not specifically what I'd point to as being better than C. For a specific language spec I'd point to, the ML language spec would be a good one. 00:15:08 from what I heard "int int int int int hello;" is proper syntax with the respect to specification (don't bother trying to compile it) 00:15:19 But a higher level language where there isn't even such thing as "write to this address plus one" to try to assign a meaning to, is what I was getting at. 00:16:20 Anyway I think I just dug myself into like 2-3 flamewars that I probably can't sustain. I'm opinionated about language design, film at 11, I'm going to put my responses on hold for a while and let others have the last word. :) 00:16:47 -!- TheCrownedFox [~austin@24.sub-70-196-195.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:16:50 That is exactly why C is awesome (*var)=something, 00:17:33 -!- carleastlund [~carleastl@209-6-40-238.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #scheme 00:17:50 carleastlund [~carleastl@209-6-40-238.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:18:29 although that is sad that I am learning two more less unusefull languages. Will never get a job. 00:19:39 so scsh is NOT availible on 64-bit (someone mentioned it in the discussion, but some time ago the maintainer of scsh told that it is). 00:19:42 ? 00:21:07 It will afaik run on 64-bit oses if compiled in 32-bit mode. 00:21:30 But I don't really know, next week will be my first 64-bit OS evar. 00:23:06 How do you even get a 32-bit OS these days?! 00:24:00 I was on Win XP until Friday, when my motherboard died the death. 00:24:31 Even when I get my new machine with Win 7 (these are work machines), 00:24:50 I'll probably still be running a lot of Win32 software, notably Cygwin. 00:24:51 http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html - OS/370 probably never came out in 64-bit :), (nor 32, but that's an other story) 00:25:11 OS/370 is now Z/OS, which is 64 bit 00:25:28 :/ 00:25:41 z/OS, sorry 00:28:18 carleastlund, the properties of C you objected to -- that is, that it tends not to give feedback for mistakes -- aren't related to what you characterized pejoratively as `C-like'. 00:30:00 `Unix-like' would be more accurate for those -- that is, organizing programs into parts that have simple and clearly defined interfaces with byte streams, rather than complex higher-order interactions. 00:30:42 +1, except that the interfaces are rarely actually byte streams: they are dynamically typed record streams composed of byte streams. 00:32:06 For a persnickety definition of `actually', yes, but for a practical definition of `actually', it really is the case that you can rewrite `f | g' as `f > x' and examine it with any of a variety of Unix tools and then feed it into g with `g < x'. 00:34:27 A bad engineer can always build arbitrarily complex and debugging-resistant layers on top of the *mechanism* of byte streams, but doing so would disregard the *intent*. 00:34:52 What intent? 00:35:19 The intent to store information in simple formats that a variety of tools can easily process. 00:35:22 The fact that input and output can be stored losslessly in files means it is built from byte streams. 00:35:30 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:35:47 Or, you might say `the intent behind the Unix philosophy'. 00:36:10 Sure, but the dominant *intentional* format is records (lines) composed of fields (separated by some character, often TAB but often settable), with dynamic types. 00:36:29 Which is higher-order than bytes. 00:45:31 carleastlund, and, in answer to your question earlier (sorry, I have been dealing with some violent feline politics): What happens when you pick a random pointer and write to that address plus 1,058,999 is very precisely specified as undefined behaviour. Even doing the arithmetic is precisely specified as undefined behaviour: if you have a pointer p to an object of n bytes, you can compute p, p+1, p+2, ..., p+n, but anything beyond or before th 00:45:55 (I assume your `random pointer' was to an object of fewer than 1,058,999*sizeof(*p) bytes.) 00:47:57 -!- Kojimoto [~Jeremy@69-84-118-201-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has quit [Quit: Kojimoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooootoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo] 00:48:45 Qoj [~Joq@69-84-118-201-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has joined #scheme 00:53:30 -!- carleastlund [~carleastl@209-6-40-238.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 00:59:07 -!- b4284 [~b4283@223-138-72-200.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:11 -!- aranhoide [~smuxi@240.Red-83-59-17.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:01:48 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:03:39 walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 01:05:04 -!- pcl [~pcl@cpe-172-254-108-166.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:16:23 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-72-84-229-181.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:16:43 -!- walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:20:22 walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 01:23:23 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 01:29:41 hmm 01:35:45 -!- Qoj [~Joq@69-84-118-201-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:36:12 Qoj [~Joq@69-84-118-201-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has joined #scheme 01:37:05 if I connect STDIN to some pipe it does not wait for input of scanf, just reads EOF? (like I would be using a fscanf) 01:38:54 No, it has no idea that it's connected to a pipe, so yes, it waits. 01:41:56 oh, wrong room. But if Your already here - http://bpaste.net/show/114622/ 01:42:17 it prints that the scanf() get EOF. 01:43:12 I run it from inside a program. 01:44:48 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:45:38 nvm, enough for today. Thanks for the help everyone. 01:45:47 -!- pumpkin360 [~main@aggd195.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 01:48:01 BossKonaSegwaY2 [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has joined #scheme 01:50:07 BossKonaSegwaY3 [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has joined #scheme 01:50:10 -!- BossKonaSegwaY1 [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:51:13 Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 01:52:14 -!- BossKonaSegwaY2 [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:53:31 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has joined #scheme 01:54:22 -!- BossKonaSegwaY3 [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:56:05 jlongster [~user@pool-72-84-229-181.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:56:37 BossKonaSegwaY1 [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has joined #scheme 01:57:53 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:07:17 rudybot, are we alone? 02:07:18 Qoj: screen, instead of relying on buffer contents alone. It takes 02:07:27 rudybot, thats my boy 02:07:28 Qoj: boy, I'd love to play darts with you and bpalmer ;) 02:07:45 rudybot, quick this treat I know they dont feed you around here 02:07:49 Qoj: but then i treat both the terrorists and the schemers similarily 02:08:16 rudybot, i'll be back later, this time ill set you free 02:08:17 Qoj: for good or ill, what I do is run Emacs.app with (server-start) in .emacs. I have this in my .bash_profile: alias ec='/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/bin/emacsclient -n' 02:08:26 rudybot, I have to go I hear footsteps 02:08:27 Qoj: i wouldnt like to follow in plato's footsteps, or even lipservice it. so many modern tyrants claim to be strong adherents of plato. he's a twatt. ;) farther one gets from epicurus or socrates, in greek philosophy, from what i've seen, the worse off we are. 02:19:26 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:46 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 02:19:55 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21:46 homie__ [~homie@xdsl-78-35-133-178.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:22:01 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 02:22:54 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:24:37 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-150-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:31:08 pcl [~pcl@cpe-172-254-108-166.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:32:45 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 02:42:58 mario-go` [~user@email.parenteses.org] has joined #scheme 02:43:07 -!- mario-goulart [~user@email.parenteses.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:50:44 -!- walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:53:06 -!- tenq|away is now known as tenq 03:11:29 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-108-182-78-175.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:13:22 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:19:05 jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-108-182-78-175.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:19:32 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:23:33 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:29:23 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.103.146] has joined #scheme 03:37:19 racycle [~racycle@75-25-129-128.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:39:39 -!- Qoj [~Joq@69-84-118-201-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:43:11 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD92CD5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:43:40 taylanub [tub@p4FD92E0D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 03:46:09 walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 03:46:57 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-72-84-229-181.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:48:04 -!- ffio_ [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 03:54:43 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:22 -!- walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:05:08 -!- copec is now known as copec_ 04:05:39 -!- copec_ is now known as copec 04:10:24 -!- arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 04:11:05 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:13:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-225.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:21:10 fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has joined #scheme 04:21:33 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 04:24:13 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172.15.249.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:24:31 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:25:25 -!- homie__ [~homie@xdsl-78-35-133-178.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:34:21 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-108-182-78-175.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:35:51 LeoNerd: re "it's useful to be able to I'm wondering if higher order functions, without recursive calls, can do everything that recursive functions can do.. 10:13:52 I'm trying to do this exercise in Simply Scheme, where you have to compare two sentences using no recursion, and only higher order functions. 10:14:23 let's how I can do this.. 10:14:36 Can you use y-combinators? Or does that count as recursion in the exersice? ;-) 10:15:09 what is a y-combinator? 10:15:44 It's a way to do recursion without calling names. (that's a simplified version of it I guess..) 10:15:51 So I guess it's a nogo 10:15:54 one of the basic brick for recusivity, :) 10:17:09 zacts: what's the exercise definition? 10:17:46 add^_: http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~bh/ssch9/lambda.html 10:17:57 exercise 9.9 10:18:38 I must use only higher order procedures and no recursion. recursion isn't introduced yet in this chapter. 10:18:44 Hm 10:22:02 the tools provided are higher order procedures, both input and output, keep, every, accumulate, and repeat. 10:22:47 and the procedures provided by simply.scm to manipulate sentences and words. 10:22:51 Ah 10:22:58 Well 10:23:03 I just need a hint. 10:23:09 You got all the building stones in the chapter 10:23:14 member? 10:23:21 yeah 10:23:22 that's your hint 10:23:29 :-) 10:23:32 ok, thanks. I'll see what I can do 10:23:34 is a intersection of two sets, can be used with map 10:23:52 yeah, so an upside down U 10:23:57 zacts: did you do the previous exercises ? you can use similar constructs 10:24:25 YoungFrog: yeah I did, but accidentally deleted my .scm file. I forgot what I did. 10:24:36 maybe I'll try the previous one again, then do this one. 10:24:37 Hm 10:25:13 Well, I can't really say it because that would spoil the exercise 10:25:22 But you need stuff from the chapter anyway 10:25:29 defined in the chapter 10:25:48 -!- karswell [~user@87.114.92.76] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:26:01 yeah, I'll post back when I've figured it out. need to eat breakfast 10:26:11 probably you need to define a predicate same-word? somewhere 10:27:49 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #scheme 10:29:29 Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 10:30:09 oh easy 10:30:11 I got it 10:30:16 yeah, I forgot about member? 10:31:02 Maybe I shouldn't have given such a good hint :-P 10:31:09 Great though! 10:31:26 thanks, it's ok. it is very similar to the previous exercise, now that I remember 10:31:57 :-) 10:34:37 gotta go for a while 10:37:15 MrFahrenheit 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quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:51:23 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:53:34 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has joined #scheme 13:54:29 manolis__ [~manolis@188.4.143.179.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #scheme 13:54:58 Hey there, I'm having a hard time enlarging the fonts in edwin (mit-scheme) 13:55:14 I tried this: http://superuser.com/questions/207938/how-to-change-default-font-in-mit-scheme-edwin 13:55:15 http://tinyurl.com/jvpudrv 13:55:31 but I get "unknown font 9x15" 13:56:24 That was impressive but I already tried that. 13:56:49 -!- BossKonaSegwaY1 [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:57:01 jlongster [~user@pool-72-84-229-181.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:57:06 homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:58:11 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:59:01 -!- duncanm_ [~duncan@a-chinaman.com] has quit [Remote host closed 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[~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #scheme 14:28:02 lol 14:33:18 -!- brianloveswords [~brianlove@li124-154.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:33:27 I need some help with edwin, is there anyone here? 14:33:36 Hi. 14:34:11 Hi, Riastradh 14:34:16 Perhaps try a string like "Courier 12". I'm fuzzy on how X fonts work. 14:34:39 brianloveswords [~brianlove@li124-154.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 14:37:22 It didn't work. 14:37:58 Try `M-x set-font TAB'. Does that show a lot of possible completions? 14:41:02 It does. I'm completely knew to emacs, how do I scroll down the tab list? 14:41:18 `C-x o' to switch windows 14:44:54 yeah, there is only "6x13" in the "AxB" form, the rest are fonts with extremely names as in "-adobe-utopia-b-i-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso10646-1: 14:45:29 Well, try one of those. 14:47:20 masm [~masm@a89-153-155-94.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 14:48:42 pcl [~pcl@cpe-172-254-108-166.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 14:49:55 nah, uknown font-name as well. 14:50:07 Can I just use regulat emacs with sicp instead of edwin? 14:50:14 Does it make any difference? 14:50:21 I spent two hours trying to make that work. 14:50:30 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:51:35 Did you write a colon like you quoted here? 14:51:45 Also, when you run `M-x set-font', it should complete when you hit TAB. 14:51:59 no, that was a typo, it was a closing quote. 14:52:28 OK. If you hit TAB when you've typed in one of those names, does it say `[Sole completion]'? 14:53:41 you were right, I had reached the point where it said sole completion 14:54:07 Now the font changes indeed, can I add a number after the name as a size parameter? 14:54:24 One of the numbers in those horrible names is the font size... 14:54:35 aaah. 14:55:03 ok, I'll figure it out from here (I hope) :) 14:55:12 Thank you very much, Riastradh. 14:55:36 Sorry the font crap is insane. It's the old X11 font crap; nobody has updated Edwin to do xft or anything (which is what `Courier 12' is an example of). 14:56:21 ok, I hope I'll struggle with edwin until I finish SICP and then turn to emacs. 14:57:11 btw, above I meant "I had *not* reached sole completion". 14:57:59 (Of course, xft is insane too. It's all insane, and I don't want to deal with it, which is why nobody has improved that stuff in ages...) 15:07:56 -!- aranhoide [~smuxi@220.Red-79-159-109.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:08:12 chturne [~charles@host86-147-194-54.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 15:09:17 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:11:53 -!- bjz_ [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:11:53 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:11:55 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 15:12:00 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops|lunch 15:12:24 aranhoide [~smuxi@220.Red-79-159-109.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 15:15:10 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #scheme 15:16:20 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:17:16 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:20:32 -!- amoe [~amoe@li195-121.members.linode.com] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 15:20:35 jao [~jao@208.Red-193-153-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 15:20:38 -!- jao [~jao@208.Red-193-153-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:20:38 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 15:21:01 homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:22:05 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:25:24 -!- Triclops|lunch is now known as Triclops256 15:26:08 -!- manolis__ [~manolis@188.4.143.179.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:49 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:28:00 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:33:02 -!- aranhoide [~smuxi@220.Red-79-159-109.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:36:29 aranhoide [~smuxi@149.Red-79-157-100.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 15:41:38 amoe [~amoe@li195-121.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 15:44:35 -!- masm [~masm@a89-153-155-94.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:45:03 dessos [~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:46:31 -!- dessos [~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #scheme 15:47:44 manolis___ [~manolis@188.4.19.9.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #scheme 15:49:12 Actually, I have a final question, 15:49:36 (edit 'console) would solve my problems with the fonts 15:50:00 but it returns: ;Requested display type unavailable: #[display-type 13 console] 15:50:49 Is there anyway to use the console instead of a new X11 window? That way I would be able to just adjust the terminal fonts. 15:57:16 -!- alexei___ [~amgarchin@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:57:50 arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #scheme 15:59:09 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:20 rszeno [~rszeno@79.118.12.112] has joined #scheme 16:04:31 -!- ffio [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:04:43 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 16:05:01 ffio_ [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has joined #scheme 16:12:43 acedia [~rage@unaffiliated/ffs] has joined #scheme 16:14:32 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #scheme 16:18:23 -!- manolis___ [~manolis@188.4.19.9.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:21:40 manolis____ [~manolis@188.4.19.9.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #scheme 16:22:18 -!- joneshf-laptop 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Le splitte du nette 18:00:51 -!- chturne_ [~charles@host86-147-194-54.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:04:55 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-23.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 18:09:49 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:14:11 -!- davexuni` is now known as davexunit 18:15:16 joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has joined #scheme 18:21:12 wbooze__ [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-232.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:21:27 -!- wbooze__ [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23:21 gcartier [~gcartier@modemcable010.136-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 18:23:53 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:24:33 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-232.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:26:00 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:28:11 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:36 ASau````` [~user@p4FF96152.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:39:10 -!- ASau```` [~user@p5797F506.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:39:48 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 18:41:08 preflex_ [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 18:41:09 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:41:52 -!- preflex_ is now known as preflex 18:44:45 skeuomorf [~skeuomorf@197.32.239.254] has joined #scheme 18:54:41 aranhoide [~smuxi@149.Red-79-157-100.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:58:16 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:20 trusktr [~trusktr@173-10-14-122-BusName-stockton.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 19:10:53 -!- skeuomorf [~skeuomorf@197.32.239.254] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:13:59 -!- trusktr [~trusktr@173-10-14-122-BusName-stockton.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:14:32 trusktr [~trusktr@173-10-14-122-BusName-stockton.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 19:14:38 -!- trusktr [~trusktr@173-10-14-122-BusName-stockton.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:15:51 trusktr [~trusktr@173-10-14-122-BusName-stockton.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 19:15:56 -!- gcartier [~gcartier@modemcable010.136-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:02 tupi [~user@139.82.89.157] has joined #scheme 19:19:43 carleastlund [~carleastl@209-6-40-238.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 19:23:53 jrapdx [~jrapdx@74-95-41-205-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 19:24:01 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 19:37:28 -!- aranhoide [~smuxi@149.Red-79-157-100.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:41:24 does chibi scheme work on Android? 19:42:07 jewel [~jewel@105-236-99-241.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:44:06 simon`` [4d421769@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.66.23.105] has joined #scheme 19:45:49 hi. I'm a little confused about how to interpret "syntax analysis of Scheme" (or Lisp in general). if you only look very shallowly at it, matching parentheses is surely context-free. but if you are to make any further analysis, you quickly run into macros. is the distinction between syntax and semantics blurry, or am I just not watching close enough? 19:47:10 Giomancer [~gio@107.201.206.230] has joined #scheme 19:48:30 simon``: The syntax of Scheme-with-macros is indeed pretty degenerate, and is just down to parenthesis-matching. Macro expansion has to be considered part of the semantics, and not a separate "purely syntactic" issue. 19:56:01 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 19:58:08 -!- pcl1 [~pcl@172.254.108.166] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:58:31 pcl [~pcl@cpe-172-254-108-166.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:02:06 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-99-241.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:02:44 -!- fogus|gone [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:03:42 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 20:03:56 aranhoide [~smuxi@149.Red-79-157-100.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:10:15 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-23.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:46 civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has joined #scheme 20:13:51 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-232.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:18:22 hm. Chibi is core dumping... 20:24:17 -!- simon`` [4d421769@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.66.23.105] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:28:27 -!- blackwol` is now known as blackwolf 20:30:11 masm [~masm@a89-153-155-94.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 20:32:14 -!- superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:32:44 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 20:32:57 -!- ernst_ is now known as ernst 20:46:02 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has joined #scheme 20:48:11 -!- brianloveswords_ is now known as brianloveswords 20:48:53 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:59:34 -!- masm [~masm@a89-153-155-94.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:05:49 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 21:11:29 bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 21:23:12 what is the best way to install guile or racket on OSX? 21:23:35 -!- davexunit [~user@38.104.7.18] has quit [Quit: Later] 21:24:00 Racket probably has an installer on its home page, Guile is in MacPorts and maybe some other "package-management for OS X" things (what was the other one, "Brew" ?). 21:24:53 You can also compile them yourself. I have no idea about Racket, but compiling Guile is relatively easy if you're generally comfortable compiling software and don't mind 2-3 dependencies which you'll probably also need to build yourself. 21:26:20 ok, thanks 21:29:55 -!- aranhoide [~smuxi@149.Red-79-157-100.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:38:04 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 21:38:12 zacts: Re Racket installation: (add1 taylanub) ; the installers on the home page are the easiest way 21:38:26 ok, yeah that's what I'm using 21:43:35 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 21:46:46 walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 21:50:38 -!- langmart` [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:59:27 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 22:00:38 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C430B0.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:01:03 -!- Okasu 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quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:46:54 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 624 seconds] 22:47:13 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:47:14 levi` [~user@c-24-10-225-212.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:47:14 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:14 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:14 -!- levi [~user@c-24-10-225-212.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:11 -!- levi` is now known as levi 22:48:25 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #scheme 22:48:43 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:48:46 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #scheme 22:49:05 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #scheme 22:50:17 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #scheme 22:50:20 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 22:50:46 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #scheme 22:53:55 -!- tupi [~user@139.82.89.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:14 I've been using guile for a while now, but I just reinstalled gentoo on my computer, and I'm wondering if I should switch to a different lisp 22:55:20 scheme* 22:55:22 not lisp 22:55:28 but scheme 22:55:35 Triclops256: bigloo or racket. 22:55:57 Of course, that depends on what you want to do in scheme. 22:55:59 pjb: Advatages/disadvatages 22:56:37 Sorry, I can't expand now. Google for them and read about them. 22:57:05 kk, will do 22:57:06 thanks 22:58:57 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #scheme 23:07:11 pjb: Switching to racket, thanks for the tip 23:10:44 -!- agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:10:54 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-72-84-229-181.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:11:55 fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has joined #scheme 23:12:06 -!- walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:15:24 walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 23:17:51 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 23:19:17 aranhoide [~smuxi@149.Red-79-157-100.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:22:40 youlysse` [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 23:24:25 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:32:55 -!- aranhoide [~smuxi@149.Red-79-157-100.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:59 bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 23:36:25 jlongster [~user@pool-72-84-229-181.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:39:50 dsevilla [~user@174.Red-83-54-235.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:41:26 Qoj [~Joq@69-84-118-201-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has joined #scheme 23:41:35 rudybot, are you there 23:41:35 Qoj: well, there is some wanderlust development. But yeah, it could be better. iirc, wanderlust can do offline stuff that mew cannot. 23:41:43 rudybot, oh good boy 23:41:44 Qoj: Oh boy that is fun 23:41:57 rudybot, quick take this treat 23:41:58 Qoj: Does Google's HR procedure REALLY involve sending unsolicited emails to hackers that have caught their interest? I'm inclined to treat this here message as a high-class phishing attack. 23:42:12 rudybot, ill cya later stay golden 23:42:13 Qoj: Need to go to sleep anyways, cya 23:43:16 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.118.12.112] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:45:09 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-72-84-229-181.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:50:51 bots sleep? 23:51:11 just like nicferrier 23:51:13 When else could they dream of electric sheep? 23:51:19 carleastlund++ 23:51:39 fast _and_ to the point 23:52:24 do any of you people have experience with haskell, along with scheme 23:52:37 I would be interested in a comparison between the languages 23:53:00 I am starting with scheme, but also eventually want to add haskell to my toolbox 23:53:01 I saw some Haskell code once. 23:53:02 In a book. 23:54:04 like how does lazy evaluation work in scheme? 23:54:30 how can I represent infinite sets in scheme? 23:54:30 strictly speaking (ha), it doesn't. 23:54:38 -!- youlysse` [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:54:39 if you want lazy evaluation, you have to use a different language. 23:54:41 -!- pierpa`` [~user@host82-222-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:55:20 I am reasonably sure there are libraries that do a reasonable job of simulating lazy evaluation, though. 23:55:28 PlaneT? 23:55:42 *zacts* will check it out 23:55:50 I'm still learning scheme though.. 23:55:51 zacts: Scheme per se doesn't have lazy evaluation globally, on the other hand you can implement lazy constructs, e.g. lazy streams. And Racket has promises -- built-in, memoized, lazy data structures -- plus #lang lazy for general-purpose lazy programming. 23:57:42 what channel was that? 23:57:55 channel? 23:58:00 #lang lazy 23:58:01 Serious problem 23:58:04 can someone help me out 23:58:19 No, that's a language in Racket. Start your file with "#lang lazy" rather than "#lang racket" to use lazy evaluation in Racket. 23:58:27 ah ok, cool 23:58:54 ?