00:17:39 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:17:42 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 00:34:13 walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:36:36 lo 00:37:01 hi 00:37:31 A rare occurrence -- the words we said were both synonyms and antonyms. :) 00:37:43 :D 00:39:18 where can I find old MIT scheme AI research documents? 00:39:38 At CSAIL. 00:41:30 neato 00:44:09 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:44:47 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 00:47:04 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:48:23 is this a good tutorial to check out: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme.html ? 00:48:39 (teach yourself scheme in fixnum days) 00:49:44 I believe so, yes, though I haven't read it myself. 00:56:29 well, I do have a lot to read with simply scheme / htdp / plai / sicp. almost done with simply scheme. 00:56:41 which scheme standard/s should I read after completing sicp? 00:56:53 if I want to work on projects like guile and guix? 00:58:18 I've never read a Scheme standard for the purposes of programming in the language. After getting through whatever tutorials/guides, I'd read whatever code you're working with and use reference documentation. 00:58:39 But if you want to read a standard, read whichever one the project is designed to work on. 01:00:25 so the standard exists mainly for people implementing actual scheme interpreters? 01:01:18 That's it's primary purpose, yes. 01:01:25 its* 01:01:37 (I still have a long way to go before guile/guix..) I will probably be asking questions. 01:01:43 pothos [~pothos@1-164-211-116.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 01:01:49 We'll probably be answering them. 01:03:24 Of course, as standards go, Scheme is one of the smallest you'll find, so reading it shouldn't take too long regardless. If it turns out to be useful, you can always tell me I've been missing out all this time. :) 01:03:44 my main goal with scheme is to learn new ways of thinking about programming, and learning different concepts related to programming. like abstraction, have a real fundamental understanding of OOP, how to design programs and api. language design. AI/ML. 01:04:29 AI/ML is a long way off from anything you'll learn from a programming language. 01:06:28 well, to me I guess with (scheme) it seems you can focus more on the concepts, rather than the syntax and details of a particular language. 01:07:04 -!- estevocastro [~estevocas@97.Red-79-157-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:07:09 perl on the other hand has a lot of perldoc and details you must learn before you can even code within it. 01:07:19 True, I certainly see the advantage in using a functional language when learning a new concept. 01:08:08 Hmm. I never found perl all that tricky. Then again, I'd learned ML before Perl and mostly just treated it like a functional language, as much as possible. 01:08:36 I wonder if it's more a matter of how tutorials are written. 01:08:54 I know a bit of perl, but need to really learn more about general concepts and programming. 01:09:16 Well, I'd say you've come to the right place -- I'm certainly not _recommending_ perl! 01:09:56 I hope to apply what I learn from scheme / books that use scheme as a medium for teaching cool concepts, to other languages that I will use. 01:10:10 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Bed-time; Peace people. o/] 01:10:12 such as perl / python / etc.. 01:10:38 An excellent idea. Just beware, we will spoil you. Once you get used to Scheme, going back to other languages won't always be easy. 01:11:10 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 01:11:33 :D 01:15:54 so what kinds of ML stuff have you done? 01:16:28 I'm thinking about maybe learning more about AI/ML. I guess ML is a subset of AI? 01:16:34 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 01:16:43 Sorry, by ML here I mean the language called ML, not Machine Learning. 01:16:49 ah ok 01:17:44 (nowadays SML and O'Caml are the main ML dialects) 01:19:04 -!- walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:19:12 -!- ffio_ [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:19:50 _ffio_ [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has joined #scheme 01:20:23 walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 01:21:26 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:22:43 es [~estevocas@97.Red-79-157-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 01:22:44 -!- es is now known as estevocastro 01:22:51 I think the idea of making programs that start to behave on their own, and do things that you didn't originally intend yet they work, is an interesting idea. 01:29:43 Skynet! 01:30:39 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08:05:17 kojimoto [455476c9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.84.118.201] has joined #scheme 08:05:36 Hello i'm new to programming and CS and starting by SICP 08:05:45 I see I need to get scheme 08:05:53 do I just install the racket thing 08:05:56 or is there mroe? 08:06:21 Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 08:06:47 anyone there? 08:08:34 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:09:55 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 08:12:27 peterhil [~peterhil@85-76-131-116-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #scheme 08:12:49 -!- walter [~walter@c-75-73-211-125.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:16:21 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:16:48 -!- gjord [~gjord@ool-18babf32.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:17:59 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #scheme 08:19:28 gjord [~gjord@ool-18babf32.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 08:20:08 Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 08:25:38 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 08:26:45 -!- xilo [~xilo@107-209-248-232.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:27:46 zzzzt [~zzzzt@71-13-40-97.dhcp.dlth.mn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 08:30:04 oh 08:30:09 koij 08:30:43 http://community.schemewiki.org/?scheme-faq-standards#implementations 08:31:47 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2521477/what-is-the-best-scheme-interpreter-or-compiler 08:31:48 http://tinyurl.com/oo9thoh 08:33:55 ccorn: wow that answer is old 08:37:08 -!- zzzzt [~zzzzt@71-13-40-97.dhcp.dlth.mn.charter.com] has left #scheme 08:39:37 walter [~walter@c-75-73-211-125.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:39:52 pierpa` [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 08:41:03 -!- walter [~walter@c-75-73-211-125.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:42:00 Cromulent|2 [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 08:42:35 jewel [~jewel@105-237-9-188.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:43:26 -!- Cromulent|2 [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 08:49:31 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:57:22 -!- arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 09:00:36 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@h165043.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 09:09:01 -!- kojimoto [455476c9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.84.118.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:13:26 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C4E31B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:16:40 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-9-188.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:19:27 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #scheme 09:21:26 ccorn [~ccorn@h165043.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 09:22:59 -!- wbooze_ [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-151-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:23:13 wbooze_ [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-151-232.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 09:23:46 -!- wbooze_ [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-151-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:30 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-151-232.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 09:30:38 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@85-76-131-116-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:03 -!- LAMMJohnson [~ja@user-5af43c37.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:37:28 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 09:37:55 kojimoto: there is more but racket is fine. it even has a SICP mode; look into that 09:43:22 LAMMJohnson 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[~estevocas@97.Red-79-157-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 11:27:50 -!- es is now known as estevocastro 11:37:25 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.98.73] has joined #scheme 11:37:53 -!- amoe_ [~amoe@host-92-26-171-145.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:38:34 mageslayerden [~denis@185.11.83.77] has joined #scheme 11:38:54 Hi guys. I am sure someone can help me here :). I'd like to 11:38:55 pretty print hashes. Actually the ideal case is to 11:38:55 pretty-print every scheme-supported object. So far I only 11:38:55 found (pretty-print hash) which gives something like 11:38:57 # :( 11:39:16 Err, sorry for multiline... 11:39:45 ccorn [~ccorn@h165043.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 11:45:57 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@h165043.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 11:51:16 amoe [~amoe@host-92-26-171-145.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 11:52:17 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-151-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:57:57 -!- mageslayerden [~denis@185.11.83.77] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:13 -!- LAMMJohnson [~ja@user-5af43703.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:03:09 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:04:27 LAMMJohnson [~ja@user-5af438e5.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #scheme 12:09:02 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-191-134.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:09:22 -!- LAMMJohnson [~ja@user-5af438e5.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:23:29 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:37:31 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-146.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:38:06 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.98.73] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:38:22 kuribas [~user@d54C430B0.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 12:56:52 ccorn [~ccorn@h165043.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 13:14:59 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@h165043.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 13:21:01 LAMMJohnson [~ja@user-5af438e5.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #scheme 13:21:39 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d0661be.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:21:46 TheRealPygo [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d066c5f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 13:27:18 -!- estevocastro [~estevocas@97.Red-79-157-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:40:33 alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD606B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 13:49:14 newtothis [~chatzilla@77.126.164.83] has joined #scheme 13:50:06 -!- pothos [~pothos@1-164-211-116.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:25 pothos [~pothos@1-164-211-116.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 14:02:40 -!- _ffio_ [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:03:10 ffio [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has joined #scheme 14:03:24 xwl [~user@182.48.101.22] has joined #scheme 14:05:54 hi, if (define a '((1 2) (10 20))), can i remove car of a using set-car! and set-cdr! ? 14:06:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-126.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 14:09:48 peterhil [~peterhil@85-76-131-116-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #scheme 14:18:59 Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 14:47:14 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:56:19 xwl: Why don't you try? :-) 14:56:33 sttau [~user@unaffiliated/sttau] has joined #scheme 14:57:08 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 14:59:22 xwl: which means "yes" depending on what you want :-P 14:59:49 xwl: you cannot, a is bound to a literial immutable data structure. 15:00:04 Try with (define a (list (list 1 2) (list 10 20))) instead. 15:00:16 pjb: huh? 15:00:40 s/literial/literal/ sorry. 15:01:03 quoted lists aren't immutable. 15:01:46 Either that or guile doesn't follow the standard(s) 15:01:53 Because I just tried. 15:02:02 Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 15:02:28 or alist, whatever. 15:05:14 pjb: please correct me if I'm wrong.. 15:05:24 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 15:05:26 ok, say a is defined with list. So, i want to use set-car!, set-cdr! to change a to '((10 20)), how to do that? 15:05:55 it seems if i do: (set-car! a '()), i will get '(() (10 20)) 15:06:10 there will always be the empty list there? 15:07:17 I'd probably just do (set! a (cdr a)) 15:07:21 But oh well 15:07:41 add^_: you should consider them immutable. An implementation may or may not take the pain of allocating them in immutable memory. Eg. an interpreter probably won't, notably for REPL expressions. But a compiler most probably will. 15:08:03 pjb: on immutable data structures, agreed. 15:08:22 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-191-134.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:08:38 I'm one to agree about it *should* be immutable that is. 15:08:47 Or that one should think as if they were. 15:08:48 add^_: in my case, a is part of another list, so i woundn't do set!. 15:09:23 Well use (set! a (cdr (car (cdr a)))) or something, just find the right one. 15:09:23 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD606B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:09:28 Make a backup list and try 15:09:44 The point is that setcar! setcdr! have an effect on shared data structure which often is not what you want. Not using them allow you to share data structures which leads to more efficient (and more parallelisable) code. 15:09:59 Of course, it all depends on the case. 15:10:01 aha 15:10:15 TIL 15:10:17 :-) 15:10:29 (define b a) (setcar! a 42) (car b) --> 42 which may not be what you wanted 15:10:48 true 15:10:58 (define a (list 1 2)) (define b a) (set! a (cons 42 (cdr a))) a --> (42 2), b --> (1 2) 15:11:21 Yup 15:11:28 Hence the distinction of functions with and without '!' 15:12:10 :-) 15:12:15 pjb: so it is not possible to do mine with set-car!, set-cdr! only? i have to do it in the list that uses a ? 15:12:55 alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD606B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 15:14:43 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:14:47 yes it's possible. 15:15:59 (define a (list '(1 2) '(3 4))) (set-car! a (cadr a)) (set-cdr! a '()) a 15:16:44 but this won't work if a has only one elmenent, like (define a (list '(1 2 ))) 15:16:59 This is possible when a is bound to a mutable pair. But it is not possible to transform a pair into (). So you can delete the first element of a list only when there are more than one. 15:17:46 that is a bit pain in some cases. 15:18:13 for example, when trying to delete an element in a large list. 15:20:56 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:22:08 xwl: the usual idiom is something like: (set! a (delete! element a)) 15:22:39 This way, the delete! function may return a when it's not the first pair that's deleted, or may return () when the last element in a is deleted. 15:32:33 -!- brianloveswords [~brianlove@li124-154.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:34:21 brianloveswords [~brianlove@li124-154.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 15:34:42 xilo [~xilo@107-209-248-232.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:01:06 How to best keep a counter while mapping ? It feels wrong to bind a value outside and increment it through mutation each time inside .. because mutation. 16:01:37 taylanub: a helper function? 16:01:43 Oh, let loop should do. 16:01:50 Named let I mean. 16:01:53 yeah 16:08:33 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@85-76-131-116-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:20:31 ccorn [~ccorn@h165043.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 16:24:32 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:25:13 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:32 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #scheme 16:26:26 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:28:34 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:36:00 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:10 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #scheme 16:42:44 -!- alexei_ 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