00:00:06 Hmm. Code optimization and JIT compilation might be seen as negative-big-O operations, in some sense. 00:01:25 -!- weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:06:50 LAMMJohnson [~ja@user-5af43933.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #scheme 00:14:47 BossKonaSegwaY1 [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has joined #scheme 00:16:07 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:17:00 carleastlund: Or does is that a case of big-O delta being negative, if only by a constant? 00:17:15 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has joined #scheme 00:19:01 -!- BossKonaSegwaY1 [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:21:19 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:21:27 -!- agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:23:17 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has joined #scheme 00:29:46 trusktr [~trusktr@173-10-14-122-BusName-stockton.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 00:32:50 weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has joined #scheme 00:32:54 theseb [d807e14e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.7.225.78] has joined #scheme 00:34:02 -!- theseb [d807e14e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.7.225.78] has quit [Client Quit] 00:34:21 BossKonaSegwaY1 [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has joined #scheme 00:34:24 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:38:19 -!- trusktr [~trusktr@173-10-14-122-BusName-stockton.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:40:16 -!- BossKonaSegwaY1 [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:40:17 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has joined #scheme 00:52:15 -!- weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:57:58 weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has joined #scheme 01:00:46 theseb [d807e14e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.7.225.78] has joined #scheme 01:02:12 Norvig here: http://norvig.com/lispy.html says you only need 6 "special forms" for Lisp.....nowhere do i see a car, cdr or atom function!?!?!? how does he get *pieces* of lists? 01:03:44 (quote, if, set!, define, lambda, variables, constants and procedure calls) 01:04:09 oops forgot begin 01:04:41 theseb: car, cdr, and cons are primitive functions, not special forms 01:04:46 -!- LAMMJohnson [~ja@user-5af43933.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:05:22 A special form is something syntactically special, whereas car, cdr, cons, and so forth are just value bindings, the same as you get from (define pi 3.14). 01:05:56 theseb: (define (cons a b) (lambda (m) (m a b))) (define (car m) (m (lambda (a b) a))) (define (cdr m) (m (lambda (a b) b))) 01:06:46 ijb: reading... 01:06:57 ijp: while church encodings are mind-bending fun, they're not the basis of Lisp and unlikely to actually clarify this issue 01:07:04 very true 01:07:07 LAMMJohnson [~ja@user-5af43933.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #scheme 01:07:25 ijb: wow so you created cars, cons and cdrs with only lambda's and defines 01:07:33 i didn't know that was possible 01:07:34 theseb: don't get too sidetracked by ijp's lambda stuff, it's an interesting side issue but not actually an answer to your (implicit) question 01:07:49 theseb: I'd love to take credit, but alonzo church beat me by about 70 years 01:07:59 on the other hand if it makes sense, play with it all you want :) 01:08:19 you can do the same thing -- lambda-based encodings -- for any datatype you like 01:10:21 http://www.infoq.com/interviews/tony-hoare-qcon-interview 01:13:15 carleastlund: does "primitive function" imply "could be implemented with the special forms"? 01:13:24 theseb: nope. 01:13:27 wah 01:13:32 that would have been cool 01:14:02 theseb: generally, a primitive function is one implemented in the runtime of the language -- meaning not in the language itself. The first few -- such as car, cdr, and cons -- generally cannot be implemented in the language itself. 01:14:34 So to implement a Lisp, you need a few special forms, plus a runtime including a few primitive functions (and a garbage collector, etc.). 01:14:36 carleastlund: wait..you just said car, cdr and cons can be implemented with just a define...i'm confused 01:15:03 theseb: no, I meant their names are normal value bindings like you get with a define. The value itself, you can't write. 01:15:55 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:16:13 carleastlund: just to be clever...couldn't we use something like ijp's stuff above to not really HAVE to define any primitives? 01:16:27 theseb: do you like fast programs? 01:16:40 carleastlund: you must agree there is something elegant about implementing the whole language with just the special forms 01:16:43 theseb: church encodings do not have a lot of the nice properties that real cons/car/cdr have. 01:16:56 even then, there's still IO 01:17:03 ijp: ug....optimizations..... 01:17:19 ijp: that's just "practical"....were being "clever" or "theoretical" right now 01:17:33 ijp: Knuth said optimization is the root of all evil 01:17:35 if you want to be theoretical, you need nothing more than functions and application 01:17:45 theseb: he said _premature_ optimisation 01:17:55 theseb: but Lisp values print out nicely. There's no good way to print out a closure. So once (list 1 2 3 4 5) becomes #, you can no longer meaningfully read the output of your programs. 01:17:58 yes..thanks for the clarification 01:18:00 on knuth 01:18:28 carpenters have known this forever: measure twice, cut once. 01:18:54 theseb: look up the lambda calculus, the whole language is just 3 special forms and it is as computationally powerful as anything. But you wouldn't want to write "hello, world" in it. :) 01:19:16 and if you do, there's unlambda 01:20:03 unlambda? 01:20:07 or LazyK 01:20:14 which is based on the SKI combinator calculus 01:20:24 theseb: one of those "yeah, let's just program in the lambda calculus" tarpits 01:20:57 I have for a while been meaning to write AES in it, but after a few hours, the joke starts to wear thin 01:20:57 carleastlund: Why do you think people say "special forms" when they seem to mean macros? 01:20:58 http://homepages.cwi.nl/~tromp/cl/lazy-k.html 01:21:07 carleastlund: Are macros really a special case of special forms? 01:21:08 ijp: oh i know why i wasn't just reading lambda calculus books.....there is a mismatch between how LC and Lisp do function invocation 01:21:33 ijp: the impedance mismatch made it hard to know what in Lisp was fundamental and what not 01:21:41 carleastlund: And are "special forms" really only special because they employ lazy evaluation (i.e. normal order)? 01:21:49 an implementation of unlambda in lazyK 01:21:52 klutometis: quote 01:21:54 klutometis: from the point of view of a client, the two are indistinguishable. It's only by looking at the implementation that you can tell the difference. 01:21:57 ijp: for some reason McCarthy decided again just making a superset of LC 01:21:58 I put some time wasting in your time wasting 01:22:03 so you can waste time while you waste time 01:22:07 theseb: he misunderstood it 01:22:14 klutometis: Uhh, no. "define" isn't a function application, but has nothing to do with lazy evaluation. 01:22:15 it took 30 years to fix the mistake 01:22:59 special form is just a macro built into the runtime, just as a primitive function is just a function built into the runtime. 01:23:16 adiii [~adityavit@c-50-156-85-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:24:18 I think that statement is slightly imprecise, but the analogy works for most purposes. 01:24:18 ijp: hmmm 01:25:16 ijp: what do you mean "fix the mistake".....even today Lisps are not just supersets of LC...so how was the mistake "fixed"? 01:25:18 estebistec [~estebiste@cpe-72-133-228-205.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:25:46 theseb: the original lisp was scoped wrong 01:26:03 ijp: ah..you are referring to scheme's lexical scoping 01:26:22 so scheme is closer to church's LC then because of that? 01:26:25 i'm cool with that 01:26:29 i like scheme 01:26:40 scoping is a fundamental issue with the LC, and one reason why people sometimes argue for manipulating combinators 01:27:21 because nothing makes code readable by disallowing binding anything to a name :p 01:27:28 s/by/like/ 01:27:38 ijp: wait...so can we say Scheme is a superset of LC? 01:27:52 carleastlund: it is easier to manipulate, reading is a different matter 01:27:59 it would be nice to know i'm learning LC when i learn Scheme 01:29:09 rudybot: I'm not a number, I'm a free variable 01:29:10 ijp: the cache contains the same amount of data, and i am removing the last n number when i get n new data.. 01:29:10 theseb: the lambda calculus is useful as a mathematical model. Learning to program practically in any language will not teach you LC. Its purpose _is_ its simplicity, so supersets don't really possess the elegance. 01:29:22 tomobrie1 [~tomobrien@cpc14-dals15-2-0-cust157.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 01:30:01 theseb: flip to any page in barendreght, and you'll find something neat, that won't impact your programming a bit :P 01:30:04 Scheme is as lambda-calculus-ish as you need it to be, but programming in Scheme won't teach you the interesting stuff that has been done with just the lambda calculus, that's a whole other domain. 01:30:39 .oO(have I finally managed to stop misspelling his name?) 01:30:50 ijp, I don't think there's an "h" 01:30:59 damn, you're right 01:31:14 I wouldn't have said anything if you hadn't thought bubbled. :) 01:31:33 rudybot: but it looks better this way, doesn't it? 01:31:34 ijp: --eval '(current-buffer)' seems like it should work, but it looks like it's already operating on the *server* buffer by then 01:31:43 Darn it, I should have written "ijhp: looks like you got it rigt" 01:31:57 rudybot: must you non-sequitur at every available opportunity? 01:31:57 ijp: non-sequitur security 01:32:03 so yes :( 01:32:46 when I was young, I always misspelled character as charachter, maybe it's just an 'h' thing 01:33:02 ijp: you recommend that book? if yes i'll read it since it is free here...http://mathgate.info/cebrown/notes/barendregt.php <-- same one? 01:33:53 -!- tomobrie1 [~tomobrien@cpc14-dals15-2-0-cust157.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:34:10 it's the standard reference, but not really a beginners one, I think 01:34:12 theseb: I'm going to guess the math formulas won't be easy to read in ASCII format. That text is also extremely dense and assumes a lot of mathematical background. So you can easily put it off if you're just dipping your feet into the lambda calculus so far. 01:34:38 mostly I was trying to make a point 01:35:09 ijp: ah...k.....thanks 01:37:43 time to go to library to find a LC book.....bye all.....great channel....and fascinating topics! 01:37:46 -!- theseb [d807e14e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.7.225.78] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:38:33 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 01:48:27 -!- jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@38.98.105.130] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:55:00 trusktr [~trusktr@173-10-14-122-BusName-stockton.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 01:55:50 -!- LAMMJohnson [~ja@user-5af43933.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:57 r0rschach [~r0rschach@cpe-66-108-114-156.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:03:04 what is LC? 02:03:14 zacts: lambda calculus 02:03:15 oh 02:03:16 yeah 02:03:24 jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@pool-173-68-5-126.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined 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[~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #scheme 14:21:50 -!- dan64- is now known as dan64 14:22:35 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:24:05 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:24:07 taylanub [tub@p4fd92546.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 14:24:15 Is it going too far if I have `foo-set!', `foo-set!*', and `foo-set!**' ? :P 14:26:51 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #scheme 14:27:01 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:27:13 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #scheme 14:27:16 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:27:26 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #scheme 14:29:02 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #scheme 14:29:14 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:29:24 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:26 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #scheme 14:29:29 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:30:22 Probably. 14:30:28 What are the last 2 for? 14:32:25 My API has a record type wrapping multiple values, and the second takes the values directly instead of a record that wraps them. The third is for much less related internal usage .. I think I'll give that one a different name. 14:33:36 pcarrier [uid12046@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-arjtxwpylwlyjwci] has joined #scheme 14:34:33 Why not a record with multiple fields, one for each value? Then, the second one goes away, you just create a new record. 14:35:03 ./con 14:35:16 wrong chat. o-o" 14:35:19 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 14:36:27 taylanub: sometimes a % prefix is used for internal identifiers like that 14:36:33 I thought it would be convenient for the user if they don't necessarily need to allocate a new record. 14:36:54 I strongly disagree. 14:37:27 If you don't need to preserve the identity of the record, allocating a new one is a much better idea. 14:37:34 -!- fgudin_ is now known as fgudin 14:37:37 Rules out all kinds of state-related bugs. 14:38:40 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:38:57 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:39:06 -!- bjz_ [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:39:14 ggherdov [uid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-krqrhkkvgfqiuopk] has joined #scheme 14:40:39 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:40:51 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:41:03 DerGuteMoritz: In my case the module system of the implementation handles that. 14:41:23 well you still need a name 14:41:33 I was suggesting it as an alternative to the ** suffix 14:41:42 stamourv: Potentially the code will be used in performance-critical situations, where heap-allocation would be undesirable; I think I'll just offer them for now, at worst it's a freedom to do something wrong ... 14:42:04 bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 14:42:44 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:42:47 *stamourv* shrugs. 14:42:58 Premature optimization, etc. 14:44:51 premature evil 14:45:28 pedo evil! 14:45:32 lol 14:46:57 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:47:04 o_O 14:48:01 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:48:28 -!- nmeum_ [~nmeum@2a00:12c0:1015:123::] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:48:57 nmeum [~nmeum@2a00:12c0:1015:123::] has joined #scheme 14:50:00 Usually my biggest bane is premature abstraction. :P It's just fun to generalize! 14:55:57 ffio [~fire@203.109.64.93] has joined #scheme 14:56:22 vxe1313 [~vxe1313@192.5.110.4] has joined #scheme 14:56:23 I don't get the point of the whole multiple value thing, tbh 14:56:49 I would have preferred if some convenience function was offered to destructure lists instead, on the receiving end 14:57:03 and functions just returned 'multiple values' as lists 14:57:18 all sort of special cases would have been avoided 14:57:29 What about the whole multiple argument thing? 14:57:51 riastradh, at least that's treated consistently across the language 14:57:54 Wait, was I unclear ? When saying "wrapping multiple values", I meant "multiple values" as in the plain English sense: many values. 14:58:56 taylanub: I have misunderstood you, sorry 14:59:11 aranhoide: Kernel does something interesting there, but I don't think it's Scheme-compatible. Or maybe it is; actually I think it's just like implicitly having `destructuring-bind' everywhere. 14:59:25 aranhoide: No problem, MV is an interesting topic too. :P 15:00:14 taylanub: ya, I like that. it's not scheme compatible because it clashes with the |define| shortcut for functions 15:00:27 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #scheme 15:00:48 -!- vxe1313 [~vxe1313@192.5.110.4] has left #scheme 15:01:01 (define (foo a b c) ) would evaluate expr and destructure the result into foo, a, b, and c 15:01:12 not define a function foo with arguments a, b, c 15:01:48 Oh yeah, but no problem more "fundamental" than that, or is there ? It could be done in Scheme by redefining `define' ? (Is that even possible ? I reckon it being invalid in either some or all cases.) 15:01:49 that's define-values in Scheme 15:02:37 dergutemoritz: but define-values binds the result of a multiple-value-returning function, right? 15:02:51 yes 15:03:05 well, s,function,expression, 15:03:24 the kernel equivalent would be a form that just destructures a list instead 15:03:33 (actually, a tree, but that's a different matter) 15:03:42 that can of course be done in Scheme 15:04:04 what you can't do is take the multiple-value system away (but you can choose not to use it) 15:04:09 -!- jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@38.98.105.130] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:04:14 -!- SeySayux [SeySayux@222.76-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 15:04:14 SeySayux [SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has joined #scheme 15:04:40 -!- joast is now known as Guest1988 15:04:41 -!- dan64 is now known as Guest12453 15:04:41 (NickServ is back!) 15:04:44 so it's not a big deal, I was just saying I don't think it's much of a win 15:04:51 (define-values (a b c) (apply values '(1 2 3))) 15:06:00 -!- ffio is now known as Guest47909 15:06:24 yes, and you could wrap that in an hygienic macro even 15:06:56 but why o why :P 15:07:33 who knows! 15:07:34 :-D 15:10:28 (define-tree (a (b c) d) (apply tree '(1 (2 3) 4))) ;; Well I guess it's just pattern-matching. 15:11:16 I wonder what the useful/annoying ratio would be if all binding constructs had that logic built-in, as they do in Kernel. 15:11:49 Hrm, well, apart from `define' I think it's actually backwards-compatible, isn't it ? 15:12:19 yep, because the nested lists are illegal in standard scheme 15:12:43 I think at least chicken gives it some meaning, but it might actually be just that (memory fails me) 15:12:57 chicken chicken chicken 15:13:07 just use match if you need this kind of thing 15:13:14 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #scheme 15:13:17 Guile 1.x used to do something weird with nested argument-lists in `lambda', I think creating curried definitions. 15:13:31 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:13:47 (define ((f x) y) (+ x y)) in various Schemes means (define f (lambda (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y)))). 15:13:50 taylanub: I think that's what chicken does too 15:13:51 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #scheme 15:13:51 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Client Quit] 15:13:59 It's a transitive application of the rule (define (f x) x) = (define f (lambda (x) x)). 15:14:06 exactly 15:14:16 tupi [~user@189.60.0.201] has joined #scheme 15:18:48 jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@38.98.105.130] has joined #scheme 15:19:28 Is it true that the most naive implementation of multiple-values would expand to code using lists (this would be user-implementable), but the actual point is to have the primitives transform to low-level code that doesn't use lists (which cannot be user-implemented, hence must be in the base-language) ? 15:27:16 strmpnk [strmpnk@gateway/shell/ircrelay.com/x-nhwtsoceiafwmine] has joined #scheme 15:27:44 Roughly. 15:27:52 -!- wingo_ is now known as wingo 15:40:23 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:45 -!- levi` is now known as levi 15:55:39 Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 15:57:44 jonrafkind [~jon@c-50-131-54-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:59:49 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-28.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:00:22 jcowan? 16:04:06 -!- tenq is now known as tenq|away 16:05:08 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 16:05:53 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:06:59 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:25:44 alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD62F9B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 16:30:27 -!- LeoNerd 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[~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:50:47 "except" 18:52:45 Okasu [~1@94.25.229.70] has joined #scheme 18:53:17 Isp-sec [~palach@93.175.8.253] has joined #scheme 18:55:12 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:02:21 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:59 superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 19:09:55 jao [~jao@208.Red-193-153-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:10:42 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 19:11:12 homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:13:35 -!- Okasu [~1@94.25.229.70] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:15:00 ASau [~user@p4FF96FAC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:15:16 Okasu [~1@94.25.229.70] has joined #scheme 19:15:44 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:16:06 wbooze 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timeout: 245 seconds] 19:52:11 agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 20:00:02 -!- Khisanth is now known as Guest88966 20:00:02 -!- jao is now known as Guest79891 20:00:04 -!- ffio is now known as Guest33963 20:01:00 -!- Guest79891 is now known as jao 20:02:43 -!- jao [~jao@208.Red-193-153-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:02:43 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 20:03:43 -!- LAMMJohnson [~ja@user-5af43933.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:59 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 20:11:56 -!- Guest88966 is now known as Khisanth 20:12:27 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 20:17:55 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18:31 civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has joined #scheme 20:19:18 -!- fds [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:19:26 fds [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 20:19:29 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:21:10 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:22:34 homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:24:42 I was asking in #guile but perhaps this is the place I should ask: http://paste.lisp.org/display/138010 could someone give me a hint about how I can make a macro (hygenic) instead of using these three functions, which are almost the same all three of them... 20:25:22 I was thinking of making a helper function for the macro, but am still kinda confused about it. 20:25:46 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:31:07 LAMMJohnson [~ja@user-5af43933.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #scheme 20:31:29 estevocastro [~estevocas@253.Red-83-59-17.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:38:56 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 20:39:51 -!- edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:40:34 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:42:16 -!- superjudge [~mjl@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:45:38 igotnole_ [~igotnoleg@71-219-141-83.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 20:46:01 sethalve_ [~user@headache.hungry.com] has joined #scheme 20:47:02 there is no srfi for multimethods/generics? 20:47:17 certaint1 [~david@www1.d-coded.de] has joined #scheme 20:47:30 that's a thing I found exciting in a particular scheme implementation 20:47:49 alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD62F9B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:49:34 cross_ [cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has joined #scheme 20:49:34 m4burns_ [m4burns@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 20:49:42 aoh_ [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #scheme 20:51:29 rudybot_ 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20:55:10 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #scheme 20:55:24 -!- SeySayux_ [SeySayux@222.76-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 20:55:24 SeySayux_ [SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has joined #scheme 20:55:36 -!- aoh_ is now known as aoh 20:55:43 taylanub [tub@p4FD92546.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:56:12 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #scheme 20:56:18 -!- sethalve_ [~user@headache.hungry.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:56:19 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Changing host] 20:56:19 aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has joined #scheme 20:59:18 xchg [~xchg@unaffiliated/xchg] has joined #scheme 21:00:03 homie_ [~homie@xdsl-78-35-171-65.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:00:32 entitativity [~entity@c-50-136-180-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:01:30 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 21:03:54 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 21:06:17 -!- duncanm_ is now known as duncanm 21:07:23 ASau` [~user@p4FF96FAC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:08:33 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-157-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:08:42 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF96FAC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:08:43 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:09:02 hey, lame question. I have an empty list, and another non empty list (1 2 3). How do I append the list to the empty list so I get ((1 2 3)) ? 21:09:55 and after another append ((1 2 3) (1 2 3)) 21:09:57 and so on 21:10:39 -!- ASau` [~user@p4FF96FAC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:33 ASau` [~user@p4FF96FAC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:13:29 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD62F9B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:15:02 in other words, how do I build list of lists on the fly 21:15:24 fds_ [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 21:15:35 -!- zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:15:53 cons 21:16:00 rudybot: (cons '(1 2 3) '()) 21:16:11 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #scheme 21:16:15 rudybot? 21:16:24 rudybot_: (cons '(1 2 3) '()) 21:16:25 nmeum_ [~nmeum@2a00:12c0:1015:123::] has joined #scheme 21:16:25 xchg: your sandbox is ready 21:16:25 xchg: ; Value: '((1 2 3)) 21:16:31 *stamourv* shrugs. 21:16:37 tab :P 21:16:44 rudybot: init racket 21:16:56 notice the _ at the end? 21:16:58 Oh, I see. 21:17:00 rudybot_: init racket 21:17:01 stamourv: your sandbox is ready 21:17:17 rudybot_: Trying to hide from me, are you? 21:17:18 stamourv: then there will be hide- and show- commands which it looks like you already found. 21:17:31 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:17:32 -!- alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD62F9B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:17:32 -!- fds [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:17:33 -!- ecloud_ [~quassel@cm-84.208.147.184.getinternet.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:17:33 -!- nmeum [~nmeum@2a00:12c0:1015:123::] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:17:33 -!- Guest12453 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:17:34 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:17:34 -!- tizoc [~user@70.87.222.112] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:17:39 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 21:18:32 offby1: ^ 21:18:45 zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 21:18:46 tizoc [~user@unaffiliated/tizoc] has joined #scheme 21:20:04 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:22:10 -!- edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:23:26 sethalves [~user@headache.hungry.com] has joined #scheme 21:26:06 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #scheme 21:27:21 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 21:27:28 pjb`` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 21:28:09 pnpuff [~wff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #scheme 21:28:10 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-28.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 21:28:27 -!- pjb`` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:40 -!- pnpuff [~wff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #scheme 21:30:35 -!- pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:31:21 pjb`` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 21:32:01 Ah ok, problem solved with many thanks to the people on #guile :-) 21:33:59 -!- pjb`` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:26 pjb``` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 21:34:57 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:39:01 -!- pjb``` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:24 Guest12453 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 21:39:40 boycottgoogle [~user@stgt-5f71a954.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 21:41:13 pjb``` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 21:45:35 -!- pjb``` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:54:04 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:26 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 21:55:18 -!- sethalves is now known as sethAway 21:56:29 -!- sethAway is now known as seth_ 21:56:31 -!- seth_ is now known as sethalves 21:57:20 -!- TheRealPygo is now known as pygospa 21:58:55 -!- edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:03:25 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 22:04:12 -!- rudybot_ is now known as rudybot 22:04:20 rudybot: feeling better? 22:04:21 *offby1: I know the feeling 22:04:35 stamourv: in theory, he's supposed to fix his nick on his own. In practice ... 22:06:15 offby1: What about a (public) command that renames it to its regular name? 22:07:22 -!- Isp-sec [~palach@93.175.8.253] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:07:45 boycottg` [~user@stgt-5f71a954.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 22:07:58 -!- boycottgoogle [~user@stgt-5f71a954.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:11:32 -!- boycottg` is now known as boycottg00gle 22:16:19 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:18:15 *offby1* rubs chin 22:24:24 pjb1 [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 22:24:26 Guest8029 [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 22:24:26 -!- Guest8029 [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 22:24:41 -!- pjb1 [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:43 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 22:27:26 pjb`` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 22:27:32 -!- pjb`` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:43 -!- pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:31 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C430B0.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:41:16 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:44:18 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD62F9B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:52:01 -!- walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:52:13 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 22:56:12 carleastlund [~carleastl@209-6-40-238.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:00:44 -!- boycottg00gle [~user@stgt-5f71a954.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:24 -!- estevocastro [~estevocas@253.Red-83-59-17.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:15:53 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:21:50 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:24:21 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 23:31:15 tomobrien [~tomobrien@cpc14-dals15-2-0-cust157.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 23:36:51 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:51:52 estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has joined #scheme 23:53:14 -!- estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:04 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d067747.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:56:11 TheRealPygo [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f7685a3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 23:59:43 -!- tomobrien [~tomobrien@cpc14-dals15-2-0-cust157.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]