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[~donovan@204-195-27-175.wavecable.com] has quit [Quit: USER DEAD IMMINENT] 08:55:36 SrPx [~SrPx@177.205.234.199.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #scheme 08:56:55 Hello. I don't understand something. Scheme is said to attempt to keep it as short as possible while still being turing complete. So I would guess it would have no more than a few primitives from which the rest of the language is defined, as does lambda calculus. 08:57:12 So, what are those primitives? Is there a list? 09:07:54 -!- ski [~md9slj@t-2020-07.studat.chalmers.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:09:46 agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 09:16:27 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #scheme 09:23:36 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:27:02 -!- SrPx [~SrPx@177.205.234.199.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:28:12 bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 09:30:18 SrPx [~SrPx@177.205.234.199.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #scheme 09:32:46 mhi^ [~mhi@mhi.sanctioned.net] has joined #scheme 09:33:26 SrPx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheme_%28programming_language%29#Standard_forms seems to contain a list of fundamental forms 09:33:27 http://tinyurl.com/m5o732h 09:44:13 civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has joined #scheme 10:06:27 -!- fgudin [fgudin@odin.sdf-eu.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:06:49 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:07:01 fgudin [fgudin@odin.sdf-eu.org] has joined #scheme 10:07:47 -!- tenq [~hatFolk@ip68-100-228-234.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:09:06 civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has joined #scheme 10:10:12 permagreen [~donovan@204.195.27.175] has joined #scheme 10:43:19 -!- SrPx [~SrPx@177.205.234.199.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:56:48 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:02:18 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:21:34 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:24:41 jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:32:07 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #scheme 11:45:37 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B29816D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:47:17 -!- permagreen [~donovan@204.195.27.175] has left #scheme 11:54:50 jeapostrophe [~jay@pool-96-237-249-24.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 11:54:51 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@pool-96-237-249-24.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:54:51 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 12:05:25 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 12:07:52 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:09:06 -!- certainty [~david@www1.d-coded.de] has quit [Quit: "bye bye ..."] 12:11:23 certainty [~david@www1.d-coded.de] has joined #scheme 12:13:02 przl [~przlrkt@p5B29816D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 12:17:19 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:21:45 b4284 [~b4284@223-142-220-230.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 12:22:28 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 12:24:30 hkBst: Of course it's actually a misconception that Scheme tries to be the absolute minimum turing-complete lambda-calculus-alike. For that, one might want to look into Unlambda instead. 12:24:40 Seems like SrPx left, unfortunately. 12:29:45 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #scheme 12:31:50 -!- b4284 [~b4284@223-142-220-230.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:03 taylanub: I really like the Clinger-quote (as I am sure many here do) about obviating features by removing unnecessary restrictions. I think that is probably a good way to describe what Scheme tries to be. 12:32:17 b4284 [~b4284@42-66-120-61.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 12:32:45 -!- b4284 [~b4284@42-66-120-61.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:00 b4283 [~b4283@42-66-120-61.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 12:45:49 jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@cpe-72-230-245-1.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:52:20 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 12:58:11 Indeed. Although that's a very informal goal; obviously we don't want a turing-tarpit either. 12:58:47 *taylanub* ponders on whether these things could be described formally. :P 12:59:25 I think John Shutt did some work on a formal description for the "power" of a language. Maybe ey wasn't the first either. 13:00:21 taylanub: I think the explanation for the usefulness of call/cc is significant there. 13:01:29 Unlambda is not a lambda-calculus-alike...it has no lambda! 13:01:42 The lambda calculus is an absolute minimum Turing-complete lambda-calculus-alike... 13:02:12 as its need can always be eliminated by CPS-transforming your entire program. But its existence obviates the need for a global program rewrite. 13:06:00 davexunit [~user@38.104.7.18] has joined #scheme 13:06:49 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 13:07:01 taylanub, I suspect the term you want is `expressiveness', not `power'. 13:14:44 chturne [~charles@host81-157-142-137.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 13:20:47 gcartier [~gcartier@modemcable010.136-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 13:28:14 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-170-146.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:34:32 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:19 civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has joined #scheme 13:37:42 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:42:55 -!- davexunit [~user@38.104.7.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:03 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 13:49:15 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:53:46 tenq [~hatFolk@SSID-Mason.wireless.gmu.edu] has joined #scheme 13:55:07 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #scheme 13:56:58 -!- edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:59:38 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 14:00:13 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 14:04:40 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B29816D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:05:38 przl [~przlrkt@p5B29816D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 14:09:52 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:14:41 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:02 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 14:23:18 taylanub: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.51.4656 14:24:31 also see 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