00:01:20 carleastlund: i like this indentation style more 00:03:15 Well, I hope it serves you well if you decide to adopt it. :) 00:04:37 lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has joined #scheme 00:06:42 do you know how to access to the scribble documentation that gets installed with each package? 00:06:56 when I select racket help module, it always open the web browser 00:07:22 dsevilla, are you trying to find the source code for the documentation? 00:07:50 either load the documentation files or access to some documentation system that renders it 00:08:47 Is your web browser not being pointed at the right place? Because the Racket documentation is meant to be opened in a web browser. 00:09:29 carleastlund: ah, sorry, i thought it was accessing the internet, now I see the URL 00:10:30 carleastlund: and just out of curiosity, drracket environment doesn't have an internal browser not to depend on the system web browser? 00:10:57 We did for a while, but it turned out to be a lot of work to maintain and no one ever liked it as much as the browser they use every day to view everything else. 00:11:34 So basically rather than slave away to maintain an inferior product, we gave in and just rely on the ones the "pros" write. 00:11:35 carleastlund: I see, yes, as I kind of remember it being rendered internally. I use racket from time to time 00:12:03 carleastlund: an FFI for webkit would have best of both worlds, right? 00:12:09 I don't know if it's done already 00:12:19 for the webkit library, I mean 00:13:18 What would we get out of that, that we don't get out of just opening up Safari? 00:13:37 Greater opportunity for getting a SIGSEGV in the Racket process, of course! 00:13:57 I think it would give more a sensation of an integrated environment 00:14:00 Also, more opportunities for remote code execution to break out of the sandbox. 00:14:28 Riastradh: you could restrict it to the local documentation 00:14:35 Integrated maybe, on the other hand users of, say, Chrome or Firefox would get what, to them, is an inferior interaction. 00:14:38 in case you opened it for browsing the documentation 00:15:20 I hear what you're saying, but I think we've made an executive decision that integrating the document browser isn't one of our goals. 00:15:44 carleastlund: OK, that's perfectly right, it was just my impressions, not that they matter :) 00:16:10 They do matter, and thanks for sharing them! 00:16:18 OK, some other questions, does the editor have a "hinting" mode that shows the documentation similar to what eldoc mode does in emacs for emacs lisp? 00:16:45 *taylanub* 's opinion on web browsers: the WWW is hopelessly over-complicated, therefore WWW browsers are doomed to be hopelessly over-complicated. Stay away from them as much as possible. 00:17:02 that is, when you write "(require" it shows you in some small window the signature/contract for the function 00:18:06 taylanub: yeah, this is why I was suggesting an FFI for say webkit library 00:18:10 but enough of the WWW :) 00:20:34 i wonder if using waf to build a scheme impl would be considered blasphemy ;) 00:20:51 -!- main [~main@aggi113.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:21:52 From a certain amount of meta-analysis (instead of personal experience), I'm led to believe that autotools is all you want. 00:22:11 I'm probably biased as a GNU lover. 00:23:02 i'm already using waf in a few other projects and it's pretty damn nice 00:25:12 -!- zacts [~blueberry@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:50 -!- dsevilla [~user@16.Red-79-151-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:49 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:52:34 tcsc [~tcsc@c-76-127-240-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:12:27 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:18:35 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 01:29:37 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 01:55:03 alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD605F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 02:02:48 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:06:07 -!- alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD605F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:11:57 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:12:55 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #scheme 02:17:36 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:22:18 trusktr [~trusktr@173-10-14-122-BusName-stockton.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 02:24:28 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:50:58 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:55:03 -!- tupi [~user@189.60.57.97] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06:21 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 03:08:49 rszeno [~rszeno@79.118.12.201] has joined #scheme 03:17:54 brianw [~brianw@cpe-70-113-19-93.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:21:17 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:23:42 -!- brianw [~brianw@cpe-70-113-19-93.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:25 -!- b4283 [~b4283@198.199.102.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:33:50 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:34:35 |izzie [~lizzie@c-24-62-142-91.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:35:02 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 03:37:06 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.118.12.201] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:39:33 b4283 [~b4283@198.199.102.93] has joined #scheme 03:40:04 <|izzie> http://paste.lisp.org/display/137621 03:40:39 <|izzie> i'm a beginner and i don't understand why i get the error message: define: expected a variable, but found a part 03:40:42 tenq [~hatFolk@ip68-100-228-234.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 04:01:32 rszeno [~rszeno@79.118.12.201] has joined #scheme 04:12:25 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-68-45-152-123.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:22:15 brianmwaters [41b78511@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.183.133.17] has joined #scheme 04:34:25 -!- tcsc [~tcsc@c-76-127-240-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 04:38:20 redSnow [~Thunderbi@58.249.118.176] has joined #scheme 04:38:56 tcsc [~tcsc@c-76-127-240-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:38:56 -!- tcsc [~tcsc@c-76-127-240-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:42:55 lizzie: It looks like you're trying to define a function called "boxify", but you've given it an expression as its argument name. You need to give a variable for its argument name. 04:47:17 -!- brianmwaters [41b78511@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.183.133.17] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:59:25 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 05:09:18 -!- banannagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:18:49 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:28:02 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:29:51 bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 05:54:31 -!- ijp [~user@host86-141-178-24.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: The garbage collector got me] 05:55:35 -!- trusktr [~trusktr@173-10-14-122-BusName-stockton.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:56:22 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@58.249.118.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:12:20 agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 06:34:23 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.118.12.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:35:12 -!- weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:35:48 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 06:49:21 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.79.92] has joined #scheme 06:54:34 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:00:17 jewel [~jewel@105-236-245-37.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:04:59 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has joined #scheme 07:08:10 trusktr [~trusktr@173-10-14-122-BusName-stockton.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 07:10:32 jvloothuis [~jeroen@D97AE4E7.cm-3-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #scheme 07:16:10 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:16:10 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:16:10 -!- kbtr [~kbtr@li198-73.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:16:21 kbtr [~kbtr@li198-73.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 07:16:21 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 07:16:26 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:18:53 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 07:19:36 ffio [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has joined #scheme 07:29:47 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-98.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 08:08:47 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #scheme 08:32:43 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-144-170.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:52:00 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:07:17 astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-235-122.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 09:08:53 mmc1 [~michal@j212142.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #scheme 09:09:57 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.79.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:20:57 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-192-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 09:23:33 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.93.192] has joined #scheme 09:41:10 wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 10:01:03 pnkfelix [~user@bas75-2-88-170-201-21.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 10:25:05 aranhoide [~smuxi@73.Red-79-148-46.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 10:27:32 BW^- [~Miranda@5-15-167-12.residential.rdsnet.ro] has joined #scheme 10:28:22 if you see what causes the memory leak in this Gambit code feel free to share, 10:28:22 (define a (c-lambda () scheme-object "___result = ___EXT(___alloc_scmobj)(___sU8VECTOR,10000,___MOVABLE0);")) 10:34:12 -!- ffio [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:34:23 ffio_ [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has joined #scheme 10:39:52 BW^ valgrind doesn 10:40:02 doesn't help? 10:40:23 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:02 BW^- sorry, i miss a -, :) 10:41:04 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has joined #scheme 10:42:05 alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD56FC4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 10:43:26 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #scheme 10:44:09 rszeno: no no it's a scheme-level issue 10:44:15 scheme c api 10:44:55 -!- aranhoide [~smuxi@73.Red-79-148-46.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:45:30 ah, ok 10:48:29 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:52:06 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-197-84.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:53:32 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-197-84.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:58:05 noam_ [~noam@213.57.201.130] has joined #scheme 10:58:46 -!- noam [~noam@213.57.201.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:03:58 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has joined #scheme 11:13:37 newtothis [~chatzilla@77.126.229.224] has joined #scheme 11:17:15 bjz_ [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 11:19:40 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:23:56 -!- bjz_ [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24:26 bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 11:29:43 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:33:07 -!- jvloothuis [~jeroen@D97AE4E7.cm-3-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: jvloothuis] 11:43:12 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has joined #scheme 11:46:14 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-197-84.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:51:52 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:01:20 elon [~elon@D97B1021.cm-3-4a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #scheme 12:01:38 http://pastebin.com/ERKzQHAh 12:01:44 Wikipedia on stack overflow: "Languages like Scheme, which implement tail-call optimization, allow infinite recursion of a specific sort—tail recursion—to occur without stack overflow." 12:01:44 Why, then, is this happening? I'm not exactly sure what a "stack" or "call stack" is, and Wikipedia is a bit complex, so could anybody help me on this? 12:06:07 -!- tenq [~hatFolk@ip68-100-228-234.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:10:01 -!- lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:12:12 elon, I think that line on wikipedia is misleading you a bit. When they say "of a specific sort", they mean something very specific that doesn't apply to your program. The problem with your program is that most likely that A is calling itself repeatedly, forever. 12:13:34 Your code is very poorly indented, by the way, which makes it very hard to read. If you're using a Scheme-savvy editor, try using its autoindent feature to clean up the code, it may make life easier for you, and will definitely make it easier for Schemers to help you. 12:16:09 carleastlund: Sorry for that. Geany indents Python and C fine, but not Scheme, for some reason. Thanks for your answer 12:17:52 elon: You seem to have substituted wrong ? The first substitution should result in (A 0 (A 1 -3)), no ? 12:18:04 Re: the bug in your program, I think your substitution example is based on the program you _meant_ to write, but the program you actually wrote isn't quite right. What taylanub said. 12:19:07 tenq [~hatFolk@ip68-100-228-234.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 12:19:44 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #scheme 12:20:03 Also, some implementations will allow you to see a trace of a function-call. For example in Guile's REPL, you can type ",trace (A 1 5)" and it will show you how it substitutes. 12:20:27 taylanub, there are no negative values in Ackerman, :) 12:20:59 rszeno: I guess the implementation in that paste is wrong then .. 12:21:08 is from sicp 12:21:54 I suspect there was a transcription error, because that does not look like the correct Ackermann function to me. 12:22:02 and here is ok in guile 12:22:31 is possible, i don't know 12:22:45 carleastlund: Sorry, you're correct. There is a transcription error 12:23:12 This is the correct one: http://pastebin.com/HJcas4Bu 12:23:38 And now it works.... 12:23:45 Sorry for bothering you with this.... 12:23:48 Stupid mistake... 12:24:02 elon, no worries, never hurts to ask! 12:24:49 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:27:27 elon it work but as Bike said is still not tail recursive and no tail call optimization 12:27:37 -!- elon [~elon@D97B1021.cm-3-4a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:37:53 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #scheme 12:40:11 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 12:40:15 redSnow [~Thunderbi@58.249.118.176] has joined #scheme 12:41:04 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.93.192] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:45:52 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:46:12 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #scheme 12:47:08 aha, so the proper way to allocate an u8vector from C in Gambit is 12:47:16 ___result = ___EXT(___alloc_scmobj)(___sU8VECTOR,len,___STILL); 12:47:16 if (!___FIXNUMP(___result)) { // Heap overflow check inspired by ##make-u8vector in ___kernel.scm . 12:47:16 ___still_obj_refcount_dec(___result); // Inspired by ##make-u8vector of ___kernel.scm . 12:47:24 at least that works well. 12:48:41 -!- trusktr [~trusktr@173-10-14-122-BusName-stockton.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:51:54 For some reason I don't like this at all. :P 12:56:01 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.98.131] has joined #scheme 12:59:29 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-192-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:26 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-192-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 13:01:17 so i was running some of the shootout benchmarks 13:01:23 playing with this binarytrees one 13:01:36 racket does pretty respectably, and i was thinking chibi did as well 13:01:50 (depth 20, racket does it in ~21secs, chibi in ~28, C in ~12) 13:02:06 -!- pierpa` [~user@host111-221-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:02:35 turns out chibi had `(iterations (* 2` instead of `(iterations (expt 2` 13:02:38 not quite the same thing, turns out 13:08:41 576seconds with the fix 13:09:02 for reference, python3 takes 627s, python2 530 13:11:13 interested to see about lua too, since it and chibi have similar usecases 13:19:21 So you mean Chibi does it in 576s where Racket does in 21s ? 13:19:40 yep 13:19:42 output is the same 13:19:54 Quite the difference. 13:19:59 quite! 13:20:01 I wonder how Guile does nowadays. 13:20:06 racket has a jit doesn't it? 13:20:13 No idea .. 13:20:22 also the racket version uses racket/unsafe/ops 13:20:36 i wonder if i can find a version that doesn't to make the comparison a bit more fair 13:21:24 Racket has a JIT, yes. 13:21:42 And, how would finding a different version make the comparison "fair"? 13:21:53 it's mostly for curiosity's sake 13:22:09 ok :) 13:22:32 the chibi version doesn't use unsafe ops so i'm curious to see how the racket version would do without them 13:23:59 ah y'know what, i'm misreading the time(1) output 13:24:10 racket: 24.295 total 13:24:11 The question is, does chibi have them? If so, its examples should have them. If not, that's an optimization chibi isn't letting you perform. :) 13:24:27 py3: 2:52.79 total 13:24:32 py2: 2:25.44 total 13:24:52 chibi: 9:38.51 total 13:25:01 lua: 5:00.34 total 13:25:09 quite impressive on racket's part 13:25:45 Hrm, is Chibi just a reference implementation ? 13:25:46 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@58.249.118.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:26:18 i heard somewhere it's the reference impl for r7rs? 13:26:22 I reckon it being recommended for embedding into C applications actually. Maybe it's concentrated on minimal implementation size. 13:26:36 yeah, that was the original goal, going off the project page 13:26:38 https://code.google.com/p/chibi-scheme/ 13:27:05 Latest release, 0.6, has an R7RS-small test-suite apparently, neat. 13:27:36 yeah i need an embeddable language and i'm agonizing over my choices basically ;) 13:28:01 chibi's guts are starting to make more sense, esp with regard to its ctypes stuff 13:28:52 ruby does it in 2:08.14 13:28:55 that's a surprise actually 13:30:40 tupi [~user@189.60.57.97] has joined #scheme 13:31:34 aranhoide [~smuxi@114.Red-83-59-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 13:31:50 how's chicken's embedding API? anybody played with it? 13:31:54 Guile also has a neat C API for embedding and extending. I'd check it out. 13:32:27 Don't know about Chicken; I think they're mainly concentrated on making stand-alone Scheme programs though, having a compiler and all. I could be mistaken though. 13:36:28 wrl, time -v? also bash have its own time so you need /usr/bin/time -v on debian for example 13:37:21 rszeno: will re-run with that 13:37:33 is there a problem with the built-in time func? using zsh also, not bash 13:38:14 i don't know, if zsh doesn't have a time builting like bash probably not 13:38:23 builtin 13:38:57 Also note that start-up times might have significant impact, so you might get faulty results if you want to know the pure execution time of a certain procedure. 13:39:53 taylanub: i'm writing off startup time. for a nearly ~10 minute execution time it doesn't matter a ton 13:40:11 gnu time include i/o and ipc calls 13:40:27 memory too 13:41:25 zsh does have a time keyword. but it doesn't take any options. 13:41:51 in zsh you can just do "=time" instead of "/usr/bin/time", though, to use the external one. 13:42:04 memory page allocation/deallocation have some effect on time execution and gnu time show this, sort of 13:50:43 -!- BW^- [~Miranda@5-15-167-12.residential.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 13:51:31 b4284 [~b4284@116.59.240.188] has joined #scheme 13:51:55 davexunit [~user@pool-71-162-77-127.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 14:01:09 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:04:57 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:209e:5ccd:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:06:26 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:209e:5ccd:b3ee:137e] has joined #scheme 14:13:59 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-245-37.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:22:20 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #scheme 14:22:32 -!- aranhoide [~smuxi@114.Red-83-59-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:26:00 aranhoide [~smuxi@27.Red-83-59-17.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:36:57 elon [~elon@D97B1021.cm-3-4a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #scheme 14:43:26 jeapostr1phe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 14:45:00 amoe_ [~amoe@host-78-147-152-241.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 14:47:02 redSnow [~Thunderbi@58.249.118.176] has joined #scheme 14:47:38 -!- amoe [~amoe@host-2-96-236-139.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:54:34 -!- b4284 [~b4284@116.59.240.188] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:57 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:03:18 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.98.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:09:04 civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has joined #scheme 15:16:45 -!- hopfrog [~quassel@pool-108-39-216-117.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:21:02 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:33:04 man racket is just fast as hell 15:34:04 -!- elon [~elon@D97B1021.cm-3-4a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:34:16 on this binarytrees benchmark, unsafe (!) racket takes 29s and v8 takes 22 15:34:20 or err 15:34:22 safe racket 15:34:30 safe rack takes 29s, unsafe 23s, v8 takes 22 15:35:09 -!- pnkfelix [~user@bas75-2-88-170-201-21.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:36:45 safe racket* 15:36:50 typos everywhere 15:37:43 On the topic of EVAL: Would it be appropriate to use EVAL to load configuration files written in Scheme for an application? You could use LOAD I suppose, but if I wanted to supply default values for certain variables, am I right in thinking the best way to do that would be using EVAL with a custom environment? 15:38:04 -!- ffio_ [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:41:15 If you want the configuration file to have arbitrary Scheme code, sure. 15:41:45 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:37 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #scheme 15:45:55 `load' calls eval anyway, doesn't it ? 15:47:52 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@58.249.118.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:55:16 -!- aranhoide [~smuxi@27.Red-83-59-17.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:59:15 OK, cool. Just making sure I'm getting a hang of the use cases for EVAL :) 16:00:28 dnolen` [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:01:20 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 16:03:13 -!- newtothis [~chatzilla@77.126.229.224] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 16:06:30 imh [~imh@108-90-41-180.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:08:05 -!- davexunit [~user@pool-71-162-77-127.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:08:56 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:33 add^_ [~user@m176-70-15-126.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 16:28:10 adiii [~adityavit@c-68-45-152-123.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:30:27 -!- dnolen` [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:17 dnolen` [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:36:18 BW^- [~Miranda@5-15-173-217.residential.rdsnet.ro] has joined #scheme 16:36:27 in R5RS, in letrec, the evaluation order is first to last right? 16:36:40 while any value can refer to any value created later 16:37:10 so this is onlike define in a local scope in R5RS, that has undefined evaluation order but you can refer to any value created later 16:37:12 correct? 16:38:31 In the R5RS? The order of evaluation is unspecified and any right-hand side can refer to any left-hand side. 16:39:20 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 16:40:17 riastradh: did you just describe letrec? 16:40:19 in r5rs 16:40:37 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 16:40:37 Both LETREC and internal definitions. 16:40:41 aha 16:40:42 ok 16:41:02 the one with an asterisk is the one which goes in order right Riastradh ? 16:41:22 letrec* 16:41:36 Or is that R6RS specific? 16:41:50 LETREC* was added in the R6RS. 16:41:55 pierpa` [~user@host111-221-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 16:42:07 Aah 16:42:12 Right, nevermind then :-) 16:43:13 there's clearly some R5RS that has letrec* 16:43:15 chicken i think 16:43:24 not too much to define for yourself i think 16:49:15 gcartier [~gcartier@modemcable010.136-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 16:50:16 davexunit [~user@pool-71-162-77-127.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:55:12 aranhoide [~smuxi@27.Red-83-59-17.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 17:04:32 -!- numeral [~numeral@198.23.228.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:11:04 (define-syntax letrec* (syntax-rules () ((letrec* ((var val) ...) body) (let ((var #f) ...) (set! var val) ... body)))) ;Yeah, that was easy. 17:11:33 Got to love syntax-rules for simple things. 17:12:47 pnpuff [~LaGrange@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #scheme 17:13:25 -!- pnpuff [~LaGrange@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #scheme 17:14:58 elon [~elon@D97B1021.cm-3-4a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #scheme 17:18:28 -!- dnolen` [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:22:56 hopfrog [~quassel@pool-108-39-216-117.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:23:12 -!- elon [~elon@D97B1021.cm-3-4a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:29:57 -!- imh [~imh@108-90-41-180.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 17:34:01 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 17:35:06 jcowan [~jcowan@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 17:56:10 -!- brianloveswords [~brianlove@li124-154.members.linode.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:56:19 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 17:58:41 brianloveswords [~brianlove@li124-154.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 18:03:16 hoi 18:05:21 jewel [~jewel@105-236-245-37.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:06:16 taylanub: That won't work. You need at `let*' in the expansion. 18:06:23 Also, for simple cases, I really like: 18:06:29 rudybot: doc define-syntax-rule 18:06:29 stamourv`: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/stx-patterns.html#(form._((lib._racket%2Fprivate%2Fmisc..rkt)._define-syntax-rule)) 18:06:40 or 18:06:47 rudybot: doc define-simple-macro 18:06:54 stamourv`: no docs for a current binding, but provided by: syntax/parse/define 18:07:16 rudybot: (require syntax/parse/define) 18:07:16 stamourv`: Done. 18:07:17 rudybot: doc define-simple-macro 18:07:18 stamourv`: http://docs.racket-lang.org/syntax/Defining_Simple_Macros.html#(form._((lib._syntax%2Fparse%2Fdefine..rkt)._define-simple-macro)) 18:10:23 stamourv`: Sure a sequence of `set!'s inside a `let' won't work ? 18:11:32 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 18:15:36 frankel, re: your earlier question about using load for configuration files -- probably read would be sufficient, if most configuration values can be expressed in (implicitly) quoted form. That saves you from the question of what namespace to eval in, and of whether the configuration file is a security hole. 18:17:50 carleastlund, but if I wanted something with more bang that a name=value style configuration file, something more akin to a .emacs, EVAL would be excusable, right? 18:17:56 READ is probably a security hole itself, but anyway... 18:18:52 Vanilla Scheme read shouldn't be, should it? I know Racket's read does have features that can be, but they can be disabled. 18:19:33 Anyway, frankel, certainly, you can have executable configuration files. Racket will load executable programs from .racketrc, if I remember correctly. I just like to avoid that kind of thing if at all possible. 18:21:16 Oh right, thanks for the pointer. I have a healthy fear for EVAL at the moment. I'll leave it to the experts for now :D 18:22:45 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #scheme 18:23:23 `read` allows DoS attacks because there is no way to bound the input. 18:23:34 I may propose a delimited version of it for the large language. 18:24:31 In particular, you need to delimit sequence length, sequence depth, the length (in chars) of numbers, and the length of character names. 18:24:40 s/need to/need to be able to 18:25:18 jvloothuis [~jeroen@D97AE4E7.cm-3-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #scheme 18:25:47 I think if someone can install configuration files large enough to crash the machine on read, they probably don't need read itself to cause problems. But I take your point. :) 18:27:05 Also, some machines are small, which is one reason why read is in an optional library in R7RS-small 18:29:07 taylanub: Actually, you're right. I read too fast. 18:29:22 What is the meaningful distinction between an optional library in the small version, and something relegated to the large version? 18:30:21 It's recommended (i.e. SHOULD) to provide all the small-language libraries; large-language libraries are MAY for small-language systems and SHOULD for large-language systems. 18:30:38 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD926B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:31:08 taylanub [tub@p4FD908A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:32:12 -!- BW^- [~Miranda@5-15-173-217.residential.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:39 What do words like "should" and "may" convey in a technical document? 18:32:44 ASau` [~user@p4FF96425.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:32:56 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2119 18:33:35 The scheme base library is always required; it's still an open question whether the other small-language libraries will become required in the large language. 18:36:12 -!- ASau 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