00:04:01 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Ragequit] 00:22:35 samth_ [~samth@c-76-16-238-41.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:23:21 BW^- [~Miranda@5-15-173-19.residential.rdsnet.ro] has joined #scheme 00:24:07 in the R7RS small spec for define-library , is the point here that if you are implementing a module to be used in the context of a module system, you need to write all of its body code within the (define-library ) form ?? 00:25:06 seeing the example, looks like it's yes ont hat one 00:25:12 em 00:25:15 correct? 00:25:55 aha.. no.. 00:27:00 or.. without the define-library form, can you export identifiers? hm 00:38:55 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD60A61.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:44:25 jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has joined #scheme 00:45:08 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:54:22 Saturn_ [~rose@113.14.43.163] has joined #scheme 00:54:40 hi 00:55:32 anyone? 00:56:03 yes? 00:58:49 -!- dsp [~dsp@athedsl-4516296.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:02:06 -!- jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:13:08 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 01:20:42 BW^ as i understand it, yes to first question, no to second 01:21:49 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE000e582ae076-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:22:27 based on syntax from 7.1.7, page 64 and what i read in 5.6.1, page 28 01:23:59 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE000e582ae076-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 01:26:00 rszeno: mhm 01:26:17 rszeno: what identifiers are exported if you don't provide an (export) library declaration? 01:26:46 i guess none 01:27:18 mhm. that is not specified in the spec though i'm with you that i also am tempted to understand that none may be the default. 01:27:28 that might penalize incremental development. 01:28:13 rszeno: do you have any thought on that >=99% of Scheme files would need a (define-library) form and required to be inended two steps (as all body code is in a define-library + a begin form)? 01:28:58 right now i'm looking in the grammar to see where import is valid 01:29:38 mhm 01:30:01 being in the body, i don't like it but is a matter of taste, probably is better this way 01:30:04 rszeno: the ballot ends in a couple of hours; 01:30:12 rszeno: http://lists.scheme-reports.org/pipermail/scheme-reports/2013-April/003299.html 01:30:13 http://tinyurl.com/cbr8y7d 01:30:26 quite soon. 01:30:27 I object to it on the grounds that it breaks all my previously portable code 01:30:42 rszeno: matter of taste and probably better this way - which? 01:30:42 of course, only idiots write portable scheme in the first place 01:31:05 ijp: =)) object to which? 01:31:15 BW^-: the define-library form 01:31:16 *offby1* high-fives ijp 01:31:24 well, for me, to write *all* body code in a define-library form appears pretty wild!! 01:31:24 *ijp* high-fives offby1 and sobs 01:31:25 aha guys 01:31:30 yeah i'm completely on this 01:31:36 ijp,offby1: did you vote?? 01:31:39 all the library to be inside the define-library 01:31:43 please say you did. otherwise please go and vote now. 01:31:49 rszeno: ouch. 01:31:52 hm. 01:32:12 BW^-: I'm not voting 01:32:19 i've read all the R7RS now, it's great work !! lots of things got into the right places. though, the define-library form is an exception to my eye right now. 01:32:21 ijp: why so? 01:32:35 Since I stopped reading in disgust at the fourth revision, I'm honest enough to know I can't vote fairly 01:32:50 ijp: what happened at the fourth revision? 01:33:03 the most useless exception api every 01:33:16 ijp: anything more? 01:33:20 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 01:33:34 offby1: voted? =) if not do anyhow =) 01:33:38 well, I was already annoyed, since all my code is considered broken 01:33:42 can't be worse than "no" and explain it :)) 01:33:56 ijp: in what respects? 01:34:04 I write portable r6rs code 01:34:09 aha 01:34:17 r7rs is not r6rs-compatible by design 01:34:26 mhm yeah i'm with you. 01:34:38 ijp: in r6rs, did library code need to be *within* the library form? 01:34:45 yes 01:34:54 but is much formalized, isn't this a good thing? 01:34:54 unless you wrote an include macro 01:35:10 mjm 01:35:11 mhm 01:35:24 i'm very impressed with the R7RS work, very sincerely. 01:35:30 me too 01:36:07 right now, i believe I'll send a no vote, with regard to the define-library form and the absence of clarification that no export library declaration means that *all* identifiers are exported, which is of enormous value during incremental development. 01:36:17 i understand will broke a lot of things but 'show must go on', :) 01:36:19 -!- samth_ [~samth@c-76-16-238-41.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:36:46 i'll also include that with addressing of those two things my vote immediately switches to yes; 01:36:50 rszeno: scheme isn't portable anyway, and you fuck over the few people who care? 01:36:50 . 01:36:54 fuck the show 01:37:13 we'll all be back here in 3 years for r8rs 01:37:53 a standard provide a optional framework 01:38:09 optional means unportable in practice 01:38:23 r5rs and every other computing standard proves that 01:38:31 if is possible to do something better then what is inside will probably be the next standard 01:38:50 guys, in this r7rs spec, what's needed to get the extra r7rs stuff, like r7rs complex numbers or the 25 cdddr etc. variants? 01:39:40 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:40:00 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6919 01:40:21 "MUST (BUT WE KNOW YOU WON'T)" should be sprinkled liberally throughout the document 01:40:36 +1 01:42:34 rszeno: what do you mean "much formalized"? R6RS had an executable formal semantics. 01:43:44 i was thinking to the previous versions in general, not particulary to r6 01:44:11 the r5rs had a denotational semantics as part of the document 01:44:19 I think r4rs did too 01:44:29 and yes, is about formal semantics 01:45:06 rszeno: the semantics of R7 is nearly identical to R5. 01:47:06 rszeno,offby1,*: why is "(library name)" defined as a list of symbol and fixnum? 01:47:24 i'm sure you are right, i'm more a visitor to scheme 01:47:25 for two symbols I see the point; (scheme base) or (mypackagee mymodule) 01:48:05 symbols or fixnums, surely? 01:48:16 a version number or alike could fit in too, so say (mypackage mymodule 1 0 0) 01:48:23 thought his could be fit into the name als 01:48:23 o 01:48:46 and that is likely to handle srfis 01:48:50 what i'm looking for is that there are ways that package names could be written as a package and a symbol name in total for instance 01:49:00 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 01:49:01 the srfi 97 names, like (srfi :1) are kinda naff 01:49:05 and when doing that, an import form could neatly import more modules from the same package 01:49:14 by doing like (import (srfi 13 1 97 etc etc etc)) 01:49:18 you get the point 01:49:18 BW^-: and the r6rs had versions, nobody used them 01:49:25 mjm 01:49:27 mhm 01:49:32 adu [~robbins@pool-173-66-11-197.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:49:47 ijp: what about (srfi :1), what would that mean? 01:50:00 srfi 1 is a lists libary 01:50:02 library* 01:50:17 ijp: why the colon i.e. making it a keyword 01:50:17 ? 01:50:20 the : is because integers were not allowed in library names 01:50:37 and : does not make it a keyword, the r6rs does not have keywords (in the sense you are thinking of) 01:51:36 srfi 97 names are a minor inconvenience, but every r6rs implementation supports them. i.e. this is an abomination, and we must get rid of it 01:52:11 BW^-: I have no idea 01:52:15 I don't follow the standards 01:52:23 yes, every scheme on the planet supports srfi 1 01:52:42 actually, I think gambit doesn't 01:52:47 except perhaps that scheme-on-a-chip 01:53:14 ijp: Gambit does not bring SRFI 1 built-in right, for instance on Gambit-Black Hole you get it by (import (srfi 1)) . 01:53:20 and this wasn't about the srfi itself, but the naming 01:53:44 and what is gambit black hole? 01:54:04 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:55:30 oh look, gambit got a module system 01:56:21 and people say the r6rs was a failure. The popular holdouts got module systems. 01:58:53 Gooder [~user@192.200.155.66] has joined #scheme 01:59:34 maybe we can have another failed standard and kill of mutable pairs 02:00:39 ijp: Black Hole is a popular module system for Gambit. 02:02:47 -!- germ13 [~germ13@cpe-108-185-98-230.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:05:41 agumonkey [~agu@126.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 02:17:08 -!- michelp [~michelp@ec2-50-17-232-64.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #scheme 02:18:47 cibs [~cibs@118-163-170-73.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 02:23:40 rszeno1 [~rszeno@86.125.230.169] has joined #scheme 02:24:15 -!- rszeno1 [~rszeno@86.125.230.169] has quit [Client Quit] 02:26:43 rszeno1 [~rszeno@86.125.230.169] has joined #scheme 02:26:54 -!- BW^- [~Miranda@5-15-173-19.residential.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:27:04 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@86.125.230.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:27:07 -!- rszeno1 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[~tenq@ip68-100-228-234.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 03:16:17 BW^- [~Miranda@5-15-173-19.residential.rdsnet.ro] has joined #scheme 03:16:31 could "lambda machine" be said to be a a general word to describe what a scheme/lisp environment is? 03:16:59 -!- pierpa` [~user@95.236.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:17:08 hm, i think i'd say, naah on that one. :) 03:23:49 *shrug* 03:23:54 you can call it anything you want. 03:24:00 It's probably not very illuminating, though. 03:24:18 If someone already knows what "lambda" is, then they are likely to already know what scheme is; if they don't, then it won't explain anything. 03:24:24 On the other hand, it sounds cool. 03:28:32 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:28:52 preflex_ [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 03:29:36 -!- preflex_ is now known as preflex 03:33:51 offby1: plus one on the "illuminating" view 03:34:56 You can syndicate any boat you row. 03:36:47 excuse me i don't understand 03:40:34 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Quit: MichaelRaskin] 03:40:48 -!- trusktr [~trusktr@130.86.99.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:41:00 -!- karswell` [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:49:13 karswell [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 03:56:59 just an obscure reference to an old ong 03:57:00 song 04:00:48 :D 04:06:54 cdidd [~cdidd@128-69-130-17.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 04:12:48 -!- permagreen [~donovan@204.195.27.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:16:40 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:26:03 permagreen [~donovan@204.195.27.175] has joined #scheme 04:40:52 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 04:41:41 bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 04:42:01 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 04:43:58 -!- bjz 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quit [Client Quit] 14:05:52 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has joined #scheme 14:05:52 stamourv` [~user@ahuntsic.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 14:10:13 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:19:45 masm [~masm@a213-22-163-216.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 14:20:48 -!- thatJasonSmith [~vader@ip68-102-56-198.ks.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:23:12 -!- noam [~noam@213.57.201.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:58 noam [~noam@213.57.201.130] has joined #scheme 14:25:04 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:25:07 Is there any page with the release schedule for CouchDB? 14:27:14 pothos_ [~pothos@114-25-198-70.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 14:27:24 -!- kryptiskt [~kryptiskt@213.101.209.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:27:26 kryptiskt_ [~kryptiskt@213.101.209.229] has joined #scheme 14:27:37 -!- pothos 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[~user@c-24-10-225-212.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 16:35:05 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:05 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:11 jeapostr1phe [~jay@128.187.138.113] has joined #scheme 16:35:19 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 16:35:53 kobain_ [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #scheme 16:35:56 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Ping timeout: 273 seconds] 16:36:48 -!- mario-goulart [~user@198.199.72.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:38:07 mario-goulart [~user@email.parenteses.org] has joined #scheme 16:39:26 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p5DC61EDD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 16:39:31 hiroaki [~hiroaki@p5DC61EDD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 16:41:23 -!- Blice_ [~blice@alrig.ht] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:41:32 jcowan [~jcowan@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 16:42:49 humina humina 16:43:13 Blice [~blice@alrig.ht] has joined #scheme 16:43:24 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:43:30 vote, vote, vote: deadline is noon May 21 UTC, instructions at http://lists.scheme-reports.org/pipermail/scheme-reports/2013-April/003299.html 16:43:30 http://tinyurl.com/cbr8y7d 16:46:49 The affirmative vote is at 83%, so this draft is probably going to fail. 16:46:57 But the next draft may well pass. 16:47:13 krig_ [~krig@109.74.3.242] has joined #scheme 16:47:16 jrslepak_ [~jrslepak@punchout.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:47:35 gnomon_ [~gnomon@CPE000e582ae076-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 16:48:54 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE000e582ae076-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:55 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@punchout.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:55 -!- krig [~krig@109.74.3.242] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:32 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 16:49:42 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 16:49:45 -!- jrslepak_ is now known as jrslepak 16:50:08 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:50:43 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:50:49 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@p5DC61EDD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:54:31 -!- jeapostr1phe [~jay@128.187.138.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:56:10 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 17:03:46 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD907BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:28 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #scheme 17:07:27 Cool, glad to hear there is still some sort of progress. 17:07:49 Oh yes, the WG will have 54 formal and informal objections to dispose 17:08:03 Most of them IMAO clearly out of scope 17:08:20 http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/PlebisciteObjections 17:09:02 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:11:07 waxysubs` [hope7@world.peace.net] has joined #scheme 17:11:54 pothos_ [~pothos@114-25-198-70.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 17:11:55 borism [~boris@ec2-46-137-69-182.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 17:12:13 noam_ [~noam@213.57.201.130] has joined #scheme 17:12:45 mario-go` [~user@email.parenteses.org] has joined #scheme 17:13:02 alexei_ [~amgarchin@pD9E1632F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:13:37 snarkyboojum_ [~snarkyboo@67-23-4-190.static.slicehost.net] has joined #scheme 17:13:59 I particularly like , "The Scheme community is broken" 17:14:12 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE000e582ae076-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 17:15:57 taylanub 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17:26:26 Well, herding the cats in a standards group is always a bit of a job. 17:26:57 My group at work is heavily involved in some IEEE standards and an associated industry alliance group. 17:28:17 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:28:21 bjz_ [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 17:29:16 I wonder how anyone managed to get unanimous consensus in previous reports. 17:29:49 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 17:32:36 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@67-23-4-190.static.slicehost.net] has joined #scheme 17:32:59 krig [~krig@109.74.3.242] has joined #scheme 17:33:31 SeySayux_ [SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has joined #scheme 17:33:37 Euthy` [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 17:34:39 gf3 [~gf3@aether.gf3.ca] has joined #scheme 17:34:39 eni [~eni@82.230.88.217] has joined #scheme 17:36:16 jrslepak_neu [~jrslepak@punchout.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 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*.split] 17:43:15 -!- stephe [~stephe@quux.ca] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:16 -!- rps1 [~rps@c-24-14-251-6.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:16 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE000e582ae076-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:16 -!- snarkyboojum_ [~snarkyboo@67-23-4-190.static.slicehost.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:17 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:18 -!- SeySayux [SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:19 -!- ASau [~user@p5797F7E8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:19 -!- hobson [~hobson@ec2-54-244-123-240.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:19 -!- joast1 [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:19 -!- stamourv [~user@racket/stamourv] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:20 -!- dev- is now known as developernotes 17:45:33 alexei_ [~amgarchin@pD9E1632F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:45:34 levi`: That's why almost nothing happened between R2RS and R5RS. 17:45:34 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 17:47:28 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:49:39 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #scheme 17:52:34 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:56:38 I'm not sure why anyone would even value unamimous consent in an evolving standard, unless change was expressly not desired. 17:56:53 -!- levi` is now known as levi 17:58:43 -!- levi is now known as 21WAALFCD 17:58:53 cibs [~cibs@118-163-170-73.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 17:58:53 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #scheme 17:58:53 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #scheme 17:58:53 cdidd [~cdidd@128-69-130-17.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 17:58:53 arbscht_ [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #scheme 17:58:53 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:58:53 stamourv [~user@ahuntsic.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 17:58:53 hobson [~hobson@ec2-54-244-123-240.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 18:00:40 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-77.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 18:00:51 *rszeno* standardisation will die, is a global trend, is not scheme specific 18:00:57 -!- 21WAALFCD is now known as levi 18:01:41 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:11:11 That's nonsense. The world runs on standards, and the process generally works very well in areas where it's needed. 18:11:53 It's not perfect, but human enterprises never are. 18:12:48 the world doesn't run on standards it run on needs 18:14:14 You can believe what you like; I'm not going to argue it with you. 18:15:13 kib0 [~kib0@200.92.100.68] has joined #scheme 18:16:01 i jump to this conclusion based on what i seen, is not something i like or not or something i promote in a way or another 18:17:38 All I have to say is that if you don't see standards all around you, you probably just aren't looking in the right places. 18:19:00 maybe you are right, :) 18:20:06 peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-77.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 18:20:13 but what i see is only some people who try to impose some particular ideas and other who try to invent new things to escape from this trap, :) 18:20:19 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:20:20 -!- cibs [~cibs@118-163-170-73.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:20:22 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:20:22 -!- arbscht_ [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:20:23 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-69-130-17.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:20:23 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:20:24 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-77.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:20:24 -!- stamourv [~user@ahuntsic.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:20:24 -!- hobson [~hobson@ec2-54-244-123-240.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:20:58 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.92.51] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:21:16 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.92.51] has joined #scheme 18:32:26 Yes, but new things are rarely successful without an ecosystem, and that requires cooperation, and cooperation is facilitated by standards. 18:34:19 i call it communication not standard 18:34:32 No one cares what you call it. 18:34:39 this was done in 2009, http://lists.r6rs.org/pipermail/r6rs-discuss/2009-August/004590.html 18:34:57 i'm curios to see something similar now 18:35:43 yes i'm sure about this, but is a difference between standard and communication 18:41:01 Look, I work in the world of embedded computing, where software meets everyday devices. My company is pretty big and has products in many industries around the world, and some of the technologies I work with are common to other industries, so I've become a bit familiar with them as well. I can tell you from personal experience that standards are not going away. In fact, in some areas they are becoming *more important* over time. 18:43:33 Innovation always happens on the borders of standards and sometimes far removed from them, but that doesn't mean that the standards are any less valuable or that they're going to go away. Today's standards were yesterday's innovations; the ones that stuck and didn't have competition stifled. 18:46:10 many of today standards promote *specific* solutions for a group not necessarely usefull for user and this is a form of abuse, you know that 18:46:38 -!- zacts``` is now known as zacts 18:46:51 -!- zacts [~user@c-174-50-84-161.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:46:51 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 18:47:43 Oh geez, you're one of those. Nevermind. 18:48:35 no, i'm not 'one of these' i just am 18:50:33 ask your self how many users ask here questions having in mind the idea to implement a 'new lisp' 18:51:41 most of them they fail because have no idea what they are doing but they have a reason 18:54:09 sorry if i bother you, is only a opinion 18:59:51 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p5DC61EDD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:02:52 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:04:05 amoe_ [~amoe@host-2-96-227-3.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 19:06:38 zacts [~blueberry@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 19:07:09 -!- amoe [~amoe@host-92-26-169-133.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:09:45 germ13_ [~germ13@cpe-108-185-98-230.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:10:04 stephe [~stephe@quux.ca] has joined #scheme 19:10:33 amoe [~amoe@host-78-147-157-141.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 19:10:49 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD907BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:11:15 taylanub [tub@p4FD907BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:13:54 -!- amoe_ [~amoe@host-2-96-227-3.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:15:45 -!- Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:15:46 -!- stephe- [~stephe@quux.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:15:46 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:15:47 -!- germ13 [~germ13@cpe-108-185-98-230.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:16:12 -!- miql [~miql@ip72-201-117-173.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:18:39 Kabaka [kabaka@equine.vacantminded.com] has joined #scheme 19:18:59 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-192-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 19:25:29 trusktr [~trusktr@130.86.99.126] has joined #scheme 19:31:12 -!- langmartin [~user@host-184-174-177-89.WISOLT3.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:32:09 -!- samth_ [~samth@c-76-16-238-41.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:34:19 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:34:24 langmartin [~user@host-184-174-177-89.WISOLT3.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 19:36:11 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:25 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:41:47 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@pD9E1632F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:42:34 -!- wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:42:58 alexei_ [~amgarchin@pD9E1632F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:45:48 rps1 [~rps@c-24-14-251-6.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:46:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-239.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 19:49:00 civodul [~user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has joined #scheme 19:58:45 ASau [~user@p5797F7E8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:59:02 You don't bother me, but we are clearly not actually communicating despite exchanging a lot of words. When you said that standardization failing was a global trend, I apparently took a wider view on that statement than you did. 20:03:38 karswell [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:07:18 -!- langmartin [~user@host-184-174-177-89.WISOLT3.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:09:22 i'm not good in expressing myself i know this, :) 20:10:09 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 20:11:51 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #scheme 20:11:51 cibs [~cibs@118-163-170-73.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 20:17:34 wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 20:25:55 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 20:26:55 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:27:34 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #scheme 20:28:24 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 20:28:37 miql [~miql@ip72-201-117-173.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 20:28:37 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #scheme 20:28:37 arbscht_ [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #scheme 20:28:37 cdidd [~cdidd@128-69-130-17.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 20:28:37 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #scheme 20:34:13 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:35:24 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:35:59 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #scheme 20:35:59 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 20:35:59 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 20:38:06 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 20:39:58 jeapostrophe [~jay@128.187.168.88] has joined #scheme 20:39:58 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@128.187.168.88] has quit [Changing host] 20:39:58 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 20:49:07 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:53:48 -!- cpach_ is now known as cpach 21:04:08 -!- klutomet1s [~klutometi@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Changing host] 21:04:08 klutomet1s [~klutometi@pdpc/supporter/professional/klutometis] has joined #scheme 21:04:12 -!- klutomet1s is now known as klutometis 21:08:28 sethalves [~user@headache.hungry.com] has joined #scheme 21:09:08 levi`: That's why almost nothing happened between R2RS and R5RS. 21:09:31 -!- trusktr [~trusktr@130.86.99.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:10:03 Haha, I started reading through the original reports a couple weeks back, started with R2RS the other day and indeed, other than arguably more-or-less nit-picky details, there's only a couple things that were added since then. :P 21:10:38 But R6RS was a huge expansion (600%), and R7RS-small a substantial expansion (150%). 21:10:40 I mean that's the impression I got, have yet to read through it. 21:10:44 both relative to R5RS 21:12:12 R7RS is the same number of pages as R2RS, apparently. :P 21:12:23 But R7RS is two-column. 21:12:24 R7RS is split into 2 though? 21:12:38 Ah, indeed. 21:12:39 Yes, I'm referring to R7RS-small here. R7RS-large will be too large for a single document. 21:12:40 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@gw-s1-p-nat.arc.losrios.edu] has joined #scheme 21:13:40 whereas R6RS is not i don't think, so the comparison seems wonky 21:15:22 Hrm, this makes me wonder if I should really bother with R2 to 5RS. (The first two papers were definitely enlightening though.) 21:18:07 -!- wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:18:42 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:19:13 Well, it depends on what you want. If you want to know what is actually available, read R5RS. Essentially all Schemes support essentially all of it. 21:19:37 R7RS-small is a direct revision of R5RS, whereas R6RS is a fairly complete rewrite and huge extension. 21:19:51 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:23 The main concern is getting a better computer scientist. :) (If I'm worthy of that title at all yet, being self-educated and all.) It seems like R2 is already a "reference" or "dry spec" kind of document, unlike the first two papers, but I suspect there's still a couple things I could pick up from it and the subsequent specs. 21:28:01 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-69-130-17.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-239.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:29:55 -!- eni [~eni@82.230.88.217] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:39:14 -!- jewel_ [~jewel@105-236-20-77.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:40:32 R5RS is the most highly regarded in PLT circles afaik 21:44:19 -!- sethalves is now known as sethAway 21:46:21 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 21:47:06 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD907BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:47:09 -!- tupi [~user@139.82.89.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:47:19 -!- agumonkey [~agu@126.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:47:32 taylanub [tub@p4FD937D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:48:08 -!- civodul [~user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:51:24 -!- sethAway is now known as seth 21:51:27 -!- seth is now known as sethalves 21:59:27 http://this-plt-life.tumblr.com/post/36425229640/when-i-see-that-the-designer-of-a-new-dynlang-knows-the 21:59:28 http://tinyurl.com/c4jglov 21:59:35 thanks rudybot 22:00:12 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Quit: z____z] 22:04:39 robot-be` [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:04:43 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #scheme 22:05:21 mario-go` [~user@email.parenteses.org] has joined #scheme 22:06:17 -!- mario-goulart` [~user@email.parenteses.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:37 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@richmon2-dhcp-43.greenmountainaccess.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:09:07 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:15:55 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:17:15 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #scheme 22:21:25 acarrico [~acarrico@richmon2-dhcp-43.greenmountainaccess.net] has joined #scheme 22:33:53 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Quit: z____z] 22:35:11 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:43:55 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #scheme 22:49:06 trusktr [~trusktr@130.86.99.216] has joined #scheme 22:58:46 -!- trusktr [~trusktr@130.86.99.216] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:00:08 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #scheme 23:00:42 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:01:02 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Quit: z____z] 23:01:04 stamourv`` [~user@ahuntsic.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 23:05:55 bipt [~bpt@cpe-173-095-170-102.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:06:31 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@gw-s1-p-nat.arc.losrios.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:07:16 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:18:18 jao [~jao@173.Red-79-144-32.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:18:21 -!- jao [~jao@173.Red-79-144-32.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:18:21 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 23:19:43 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@pD9E1632F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:21:43 alexei_ [~amgarchin@pD9E1632F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 23:29:19 -!- germ13_ [~germ13@cpe-108-185-98-230.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:32:07 tenq [~tenq@ip68-100-228-234.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 23:37:14 adiii [~adityavit@NYUFWA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-07.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #scheme 23:39:15 -!- ijp [~user@host81-155-24-157.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:39:40 -!- miql [~miql@ip72-201-117-173.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:40:40 -!- bjz_ [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:45:43 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 23:49:52 ASau` [~user@p5797F6D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 23:53:41 -!- ASau [~user@p5797F7E8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]