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#scheme 04:36:58 can someone explain that code: "(let ((x (list 1 2 3))) (setcdr (lastcdr x) x) x)" ? 04:37:11 We cannot, this is not standard scheme. 04:37:17 Care to defien setcdr and lastcdr? 04:37:44 looks like it gives you an infinite list of (1 2 3 1 2 3 ...) 04:38:00 since the cdr of 3 is the list x again 04:39:21 Well, there are no infinite lists in scheme. It could be a circular list, depending on the definition of setcdr. 04:39:35 -!- sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:39:54 tali713 [~user@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:40:05 -!- tali713 [~user@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:40:15 tali713 [~user@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:44:10 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.208.109] has quit [Quit: ...] 04:49:04 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 04:55:16 tali713` [~user@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:57:20 -!- tali713 [~user@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:04:32 -!- stamourv [~user@racket/stamourv] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:06:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-57.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:10:13 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[~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:40:35 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:46:56 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-228-37.eurotel.cz] has joined #scheme 07:51:13 civodul [~user@193.50.110.227] has joined #scheme 07:52:44 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:01:01 wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 08:11:56 rudybot: (string->number "350.48076923f0") 08:11:56 eli: ; Value: 350.48077f0 08:12:01 rudybot: slap pjb 08:12:04 eli: but tbh I'd rather just slap an old thinkpad onto permanent TV-driving duty. 08:12:32 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #scheme 08:14:12 mmc2 [~michal@178-85-64-28.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 08:14:50 `f0' ? 08:15:00 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-228-37.eurotel.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:16:20 -!- ijp [~user@host86-171-129-175.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:16:35 ijp [~user@host86-171-129-175.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 08:21:08 ski: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.lang.lisp/ZfkVk_y1aYs/-BgSrWkO3xgJ 08:21:08 http://tinyurl.com/a5natq4 08:21:54 rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #scheme 08:24:41 -!- mmc2 [~michal@178-85-64-28.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:27:36 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:28:58 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-228-37.eurotel.cz] has joined #scheme 08:40:35 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme 08:42:08 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:51:46 Kooda [~the_game@2a01:e35:2f0c:a980:2e0:4cff:fe68:999] has joined #scheme 08:57:49 mark_weaver 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[whitequark@fehu.whitequark.org] has joined #scheme 17:26:43 palach [Miranda@93.175.8.253] has joined #scheme 17:27:27 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-233-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 17:27:48 I've seen in multiple places that Scheme has C-like "undefined behavior", eg here: http://blog.regehr.org/archives/213 17:27:55 but I couldn't quite find where it was in particular 17:28:10 I guess it has something to do with floating-point math. Anything else? 17:29:08 huseby [~huseby@gateway/tor-sasl/huseby] has joined #scheme 17:33:33 the canonical example is (if #f #f) 17:34:55 hm 17:35:05 why define this as UB? 17:37:14 because no-one agrees what value it should return, or how many of them 17:37:39 wouldn't this be implementation-defined behavior? 17:38:16 what's the distinction? 17:38:49 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 17:38:58 IDB means that the behavior should be defined in the spec for your system. UB means that everything could happen, including `rm / -rf'. 17:39:22 well, in C, that is. 17:39:24 I see 17:39:43 -!- evoli [~Adium@173-228-28-89.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:40:04 without rereading the r5rs or r6rs, I don't believe it makes a specific call on this 17:40:15 quite disturbingly, lots of things people rely on is UB in C. INT_MAX+1; *((int*)NULL); 1/0; etc. 17:40:24 I think it's either "the spec says X" or "the spec does not say anything" 17:40:34 I don't think too many people program Scheme? 17:40:37 mostly the latter in the case of the r5rs 17:40:58 Euthy: no, they are all too busy writing scheme interpreters to write scheme 17:41:38 Well, I meant most people program specific implemenations of the language, not vanilla Scheme. 17:41:56 that's because vanilla (r5rs) scheme is useless 17:43:29 whitequark: How do people rely on those things? 17:44:59 I just think the examples were a bit odd. :) 17:45:03 Euthy: they're subtle. http://blog.regehr.org/archives/226 17:45:12 there are NULL pointers used as sentinels 17:45:31 and there are assumptions which pop up in unexpected places due to constant propagation, macro expansion, etc 17:46:14 you see, the compiler assumes that after ptr->x, it can safely remove all NULL checks 17:46:20 that once lead to a security bug in linux. 17:46:27 *after ptr->x is executed. 17:47:09 quite in an interesting way, null pointer dereference is nevertheless not defined as a trap (or an actual memory access either). 17:48:47 http://blog.regehr.org/archives/213#comment-703 :) 17:57:05 as r6rs is a huge step into the wrong directions, writing a huger diversity r5rs implementations is necessary,m let alonet r4rs and r3rs 18:01:30 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-228-37.eurotel.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:10 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.211] has joined #scheme 18:02:14 evoli [~Adium@63.251.248.156] has joined #scheme 18:04:42 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@31.176.156.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:05:13 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@31.176.147.137] has joined #scheme 18:05:42 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD6099B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:14:22 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:15:15 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 18:25:36 mmc2 [~michal@178-85-64-28.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 18:25:56 whitequark: Are you sure that the RnRS standards use the phrase "undefined behavior" ? 18:27:12 taylanub: no, what's why I have asked 18:27:33 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 18:27:52 IIRC the reports have two kinds of undefined/unspecified/etc. cases: There is the "unspecified value" that things can return, and there's "is an error" which actually means the implementation can do what it wants. 18:28:21 hm I see, R5RS 1.3.2 18:28:23 I guess the "is an error" case could be called "undefined behavior," but generally a Scheme implementation will either actually report an error, or do something good. 18:28:46 taylanub: Racket has a nice exception system 18:29:01 every non-worthless scheme does 18:29:09 some of the worthless ones too 18:29:41 does R5RS? 18:29:49 nope 18:29:57 don't be daft 18:29:59 so Stalin scheme wouldn't have them 18:30:01 lame 18:30:13 stalin wasn't r5rs to begin with 18:30:15 does it? 18:30:23 I thought the goal was to be 18:30:29 maybe I'm mixing up standards 18:31:05 oh R4RS 18:31:46 when was the last time stalin had a release anyway? 18:32:12 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:32:36 there are also unspecified orders 18:32:52 2006, wow that's more recent than I'd have guessed 18:35:15 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #scheme 18:35:39 tupi [~user@139.82.89.157] has joined #scheme 18:36:42 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 18:37:36 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-69-181-111-195.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:37:47 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:38:12 -!- graememcc [~chatzilla@host31-53-9-104.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:38:16 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 18:43:35 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:46:16 graememcc [~chatzilla@host86-148-164-5.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 18:46:44 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:45 -!- pessoa [~pessoa@188-195-211-39-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Started wasting time elsewhere] 18:59:28 -!- nowhereman_ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-149-40.w90-48.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:59:36 nowhereman_ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-112-173.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 19:06:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-57.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:07:17 spobat [~spobat@p5DC76BF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:08:56 -!- spobat [~spobat@p5DC76BF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:09:33 ha, stalin. i played with that once 19:12:38 it was kind of fun to see what it would do in the C output, after minutes of waiting 19:13:41 couldn't have written anything long then :) 19:13:46 i also made the mistake of trying to run the self-compiling script, which basically destroyed my computer 19:14:06 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 19:14:28 yeah, it was never long 19:21:54 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:23 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has left #scheme 19:28:45 pnpuff [~dioxyrane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #scheme 19:42:23 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 19:43:28 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:45:22 spobat [~spobat@p5DC76BF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:47:47 -!- spobat [~spobat@p5DC76BF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:50:08 foeniks [~fevon@p54A05BD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:52:59 carleastlund [~cce@gotham.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 19:54:26 -!- pnpuff [~dioxyrane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: "non confundar in aeternum"] 19:58:01 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 20:01:09 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:27 Do you mind if I propose "fource" and "fice" to continue the series that started with "once, twice, thrice?" 20:05:52 adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:08:17 Actually, let's go with "fince;" since five has a medial n buried in there somewhere: q.v. "fünf." 20:09:01 -!- palach [Miranda@93.175.8.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:09:31 -!- Mining|away is now known as MiningMarsh 20:09:37 This is the same occupation that the father's of language engaged in; now comes the salesmanship part, though, where I have to sell fource and fince to humanity. 20:10:44 s/father's/fathers/. 20:14:01 Fuck the Oxford skeptics, by the way, who claim that "once, twice, thrice" is an inextensible series. 20:15:30 "once twice thrice quadrice quince" - About 3,750 results (0.10 seconds) 20:15:37 some people might mind 20:18:04 aoh: That's interesting; looks a little Latinate, though. Don't fource and fince have a nice Anglo-Saxon feel? 20:18:20 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:18:27 turbofail2 [~user@38.99.37.211] has joined #scheme 20:20:22 spobat [~spobat@p5DC76BF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:22:25 -!- turbofail2 [~user@38.99.37.211] has quit [Client Quit] 20:24:41 dzhus [~dzhus@95-31-27-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 20:24:44 arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #scheme 20:39:34 -!- spobat [~spobat@p5DC76BF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:42:27 samth [~samth@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net] has joined #scheme 20:42:42 civodul [~user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has joined #scheme 20:48:41 -!- ijp [~user@host86-171-129-175.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:50:00 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:51:12 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:58:06 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:59:21 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.211] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 21:00:18 -!- hash_table [~quassel@128.249.96.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:06:29 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-42-68.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:09:45 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-42-68.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:10:20 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-42-68.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:13:03 -!- graememcc [~chatzilla@host86-148-164-5.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0.1/20130117041235]] 21:17:12 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:20:01 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-42-68.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:29 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-42-68.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:25:40 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 21:28:27 pessoa [~pessoa@188-195-211-39-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 21:30:26 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:31:03 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 21:31:29 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 21:39:06 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 21:39:40 -!- wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:49:54 ijp [~user@host86-171-129-175.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 22:02:43 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:09:31 lld build fails for me with this: http://pastie.org/5948064 22:09:35 is it normal? 22:10:59 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [] 22:13:10 add^_ [~add^_@m83-190-167-197.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 22:13:30 -!- MiningMarsh is now known as Mining|away 22:13:55 er, wrong channel, sorry 22:18:45 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 22:20:10 jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:22:52 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-233-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:23:35 Fare [~fare@208.54.36.237] has joined #scheme 22:26:11 FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@gw-wifi12.cdf.utoronto.ca] has joined #scheme 22:26:33 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-78-82-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:19 -!- FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@gw-wifi12.cdf.utoronto.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:33:30 -!- Mining|away is now known as MiningMarsh 22:41:51 adiii [~adityavit@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-05.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #scheme 22:42:06 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.64.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:42:52 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.34.8] has joined #scheme 22:44:47 -!- pessoa [~pessoa@188-195-211-39-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Started wasting time elsewhere] 22:48:24 -!- adiii [~adityavit@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-05.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:54:06 -!- Fare [~fare@208.54.36.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:58:53 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:10 jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 23:02:13 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m83-190-167-197.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 23:04:51 Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-245-55.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:05:28 -!- foeniks [~fevon@p54A05BD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:14:01 francisl_ [~flavoie@199.84.162.167] has joined #scheme 23:14:05 -!- francisl_ [~flavoie@199.84.162.167] has quit [Client Quit] 23:16:20 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:18:12 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:27:48 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:29:39 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 23:34:50 -!- civodul [~user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:52:41 hash_table [~quassel@70-138-246-219.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:53:25 -!- BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-42-68.columbus.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 23:55:18 -!- tupi [~user@139.82.89.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:01 mario-go` [~user@wkit.com.br] has joined #scheme 23:56:11 -!- mario-goulart [~user@wkit.com.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:03 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]