00:10:22 -!- spobat_ [~spobat@p5DC76B49.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:11:20 So can some one help me withm y prolog??? 00:11:21 yes or not 00:12:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-252.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:59 Fare [~fare@c-68-81-138-209.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:44:51 NIGHT`ELF, Looks the the answer is no. 00:54:17 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 00:57:10 jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 01:00:35 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:04:45 jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 01:05:02 -!- ase [~se@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:20 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD60B54.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 01:09:41 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:35:37 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-31-137.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:40:50 -!- masm [~archie@bl17-202-197.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:10 -!- NIGHT`ELF [elf4ospi@mac.os.x.forever.bergon.net] has quit [Quit: ELF IS SLEEP] 01:48:48 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:47 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:00:49 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:14:51 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:21:14 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:22:21 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 02:26:28 b4283 [~b4283@1-172-83-247.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 02:34:47 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #scheme 02:37:09 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 02:37:58 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 02:42:29 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:55:11 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:58:42 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 03:00:16 adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:03:34 Kevin [~Thunderbi@d83-189-62-233.cust.tele2.de] has joined #scheme 03:09:47 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #scheme 03:09:48 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-21-70.dynamic.telemach.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:10:24 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:11:18 -!- Kevin [~Thunderbi@d83-189-62-233.cust.tele2.de] has left #scheme 03:13:24 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:23:20 spiderweb: curried functions make type checking easier (not really an advantage in Racket though) 03:23:26 but it DOES reduce the complexity of the language 03:24:18 er, s/Racket/Scheme/ 03:24:24 *Nisstyre* thought he was in that channel 03:34:35 Tau [~Euler@186-194-45-62.i-next.psi.br] has joined #scheme 03:34:46 how can i do in order to handle well all those parenthesis? 03:34:50 its driving me nuts. 03:37:10 hi 03:39:17 Tau: use emacs 03:39:31 adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:39:33 spiderweb how could it help me 03:39:50 what is your problem again, I just rejoined. 03:40:49 spiderweb the parenthesis 03:40:53 spiderweb i keep missing them 03:41:01 they are a fucking pain in the ass. 03:41:11 and it hurts my eye. 03:41:28 an editor like emacs will help keep them balanced. 03:41:38 spiderweb ill try it 03:41:47 also, indent your code well. 03:41:54 emacs will help with that too. 03:42:14 serhart [~stevee@70.126.151.37] has joined #scheme 03:42:50 its alright. 03:42:52 lets try 03:43:05 you can even do this with vim 03:43:56 you won't be able to easily edit scheme without the aid of a decent text editor. 03:44:51 with vim do % to match the parens in normal mode. 03:44:59 hmm 03:45:00 i see. 03:45:10 filetype plugin indent on, will set up indent for you when you are editing scheme files 03:45:36 I also have a way to where you can do in insert mode instead of when indenting scheme code. 03:45:42 emacs just works out of the box 03:46:41 spiderweb i see. 03:46:51 spiderweb the parens matching thing helps 03:46:56 but its still painful. 03:47:06 yeah, it would be almost impossible without that 03:47:06 to visualize well scope of stuff. 03:47:11 -!- serhart [~stevee@70.126.151.37] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:47:11 -!- pjb [~user@cust-seco21th2-46-193-64-247.wb.wifirst.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:47:11 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-47-42.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:47:11 -!- r126l [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:47:11 -!- lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:47:11 -!- evhan [evhan@pdpc/supporter/active/evhan] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:47:12 -!- duncanm [~duncan@a-chinaman.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:47:17 duncanm [~duncan@a-chinaman.com] has joined #scheme 03:47:18 la la la 03:47:22 r126l [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has joined #scheme 03:47:27 evhan [evhan@pdpc/supporter/active/evhan] has joined #scheme 03:47:32 do you know how to indent scheme? 03:47:34 pjb [~t@cust-seco21th2-46-193-64-247.wb.wifirst.net] has joined #scheme 03:47:38 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-47-42.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 03:47:42 offby1 [~user@ec2-50-18-28-110.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 03:47:46 -!- offby1 [~user@ec2-50-18-28-110.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Changing host] 03:47:46 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 03:47:51 -!- pjb is now known as Guest65446 03:48:42 spiderweb more or less. 03:48:50 spiderweb i have been doing stuff like this 03:49:13 http://codepad.org/sxrVC2u7 03:51:35 ( say-Tau '( you can put space between parens and symbols ) ) 03:53:03 also, you didn't indent that code very well imo. 03:54:33 spiderweb hmm 03:54:37 the space thing helps too. 03:55:03 Well, it's not good lisp style to put spaces between parentheses and symbols. 03:55:07 -!- Guest65446 is now known as pjb` 03:55:19 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 03:55:22 http://paste.lisp.org/display/134345 03:55:25 hum 03:55:30 Tau: look at that paste 03:55:56 why would you put space inbetween parentheses and symbols? 03:56:12 spiderweb i see. 03:56:20 pjb: It's not conventional, but I thought that it might help him to get used to visualizing things. I'm not reccomending that he/she does this all of the time, though. 03:56:33 spiderweb i see the point. 03:56:36 (plus I'm still a newbie somewhat too) 03:59:24 Tau: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-10.html#%_sec_1.1.6 03:59:36 look at the section with pretty printing. 03:59:58 spiderweb i see. 04:00:02 nice. 04:04:18 amgarching [~amgarchin@p4FD60BD3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 04:04:51 really, I would say that indentation is key. you brain sees faces and patterns, so if you indent in a way that conveys the structure of the program, then you will comprehend it better imo. 04:06:52 spiderweb true 04:08:02 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD60B54.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:09:44 serhart [~serhart@70.126.151.37] has joined #scheme 04:10:28 for if I generally always put the then clause on a separate line, and then the else clause on another separate line. but that's me.. 04:10:40 all indented with emacs or vim 04:12:16 you kind of have to train your brain to see chunks of scheme code, it's really weird at first. 04:14:27 William [~William@108-85-16-151.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:14:52 -!- William is now known as Guest26466 04:28:01 spiderweb yes. 04:28:12 spiderweb i hope i get used to it. 04:28:26 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:30:04 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 04:32:09 Tau: have you read the little schemer? (I'm almost done reading it). 04:32:10 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 04:32:29 spiderweb im reading sicp. 04:32:35 oh, ok 04:32:36 spiderweb whats the little schemer? 04:33:01 the little schemer is in a question answer format, and it has a series of exercises. 04:33:10 it's like hannon for piano, but for scheme. 04:33:13 sounds good. 04:33:27 i was trying to figure out how to sort a list. 04:33:27 it may help you to learn to see patterns, it starts out really simple though. 04:33:29 in scheme. 04:33:33 i kind of gave up. 04:33:39 i know how to do it imperatively. 04:33:54 but i failed doing it resurcively at first. 04:34:16 the things that brings me to scheme is its functional characteristic. 04:34:39 i thought of haskell but its wealthier in terms of syntax i didnt wish to spend much time on it. 04:35:16 yeah. the little schemer has examples of higher order functions, but the main goal is to get you to think recursively and actually see scheme code in patterns. 04:35:18 recursively* 04:35:39 spiderweb im gonna go for it 04:35:39 -!- b4283 [~b4283@1-172-83-247.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:35:42 when i finish sicp. 04:36:17 it's simple though, but good practice, at least to me it is.. 04:36:29 i see. 04:36:43 spiderweb what have you done with scheme so far 04:36:46 you may or may not like it 04:37:34 Tau: I'm just getting through the little scheme books right now, and simply scheme. then I am going to do sicp. I haven't done much yet with scheme, mostly Perl. I want to work on guix. 04:37:56 spiderweb i see. 04:38:02 i have been using python. 04:38:15 i will stay with scheme just for project euler challenges for a time. 04:38:25 maybe later i pick up something serious to do with scheme. 04:39:19 spiderweb whats guix though 04:39:39 Tau: http://gnu.org/s/guix 04:40:04 spiderweb are you using mit-scheme 04:40:12 I'm using guile and racket 04:40:25 guile-2.0.7 that is 04:40:34 oh i see. 04:40:42 im sticking with mit-scheme for now. 04:40:46 might change later. 04:41:23 how far are you through sicp? 04:41:41 spiderweb im in the beginning yet. 04:42:06 neat, you know that there are also lectures right? 04:42:15 spiderweb hmm, lectures? 04:42:28 like videos etc? 04:43:16 http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-001-structure-and-interpretation-of-computer-programs-spring-2005/ 04:43:16 http://tinyurl.com/27e9qvh 04:43:24 oops I'll tinyurl next 04:44:15 also, http://webcast.berkeley.edu/series#c,s 04:44:35 the berkeley lectures that use scheme are the Brian Harvey lectures. 04:44:42 the newer ones use python 04:44:45 spiderweb awesome. 04:45:08 the mit lecture notes are useful too. 04:45:25 spiderweb it will really help. 04:45:29 thank you for the hint. 04:45:32 =) 04:50:16 Tau: also, I believe that racket has some nice support for sicp. like the picture language and things like that. need to look into it, though.. 04:51:08 spiderweb i'll consider changing for racket. 04:51:12 spiderweb these videos are awesome. 04:51:18 spiderweb they even have subtitles. 04:51:28 its gonna really help a lot. 04:58:24 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-64-28.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:00:09 -!- Fare [~fare@c-68-81-138-209.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:01:10 cool 05:09:25 -!- notdan [~h@unaffiliated/notdan] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:11:11 b4283 [~b4283@1-172-83-247.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 05:11:33 notdan [~h@rootshell.me] has joined #scheme 05:11:53 Fare [~fare@c-68-81-138-209.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:15:56 -!- notdan [~h@rootshell.me] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:17:44 notdan [~h@rootshell.me] has joined #scheme 05:22:26 -!- notdan [~h@rootshell.me] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:23:57 notdan [~h@rootshell.me] has joined #scheme 05:25:33 spiderweb see you. 05:25:34 -!- Tau [~Euler@186-194-45-62.i-next.psi.br] has quit [Quit: Tau] 05:25:56 ttyl 05:35:45 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:38:18 -!- b4283 [~b4283@1-172-83-247.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:39:50 -!- notdan [~h@rootshell.me] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:40:54 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:41:45 notdan [~h@rootshell.me] has joined #scheme 05:44:32 cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.200.208] has joined #scheme 05:45:09 spiderwe` 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[~codygman@pool-173-74-60-248.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:50:42 If I were making something to hold my grocery list, what would be the scheme way of persisting that data? 06:50:50 -!- amgarching [~amgarchin@p4FD60BD3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 06:51:23 -!- Fare [~fare@c-68-81-138-209.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:57:15 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:03:54 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 07:06:50 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:15:39 kpal [~kpal@217-12-75-152.sibtele.com] has joined #scheme 07:39:29 ASau [~user@217.118.90.159] has joined #scheme 07:44:00 -!- kpal [~kpal@217-12-75-152.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:44:30 kpal [~kpal@217-12-75-152.sibtele.com] has joined #scheme 07:46:05 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 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[~spobat@p5DC76B49.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 13:37:55 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD60BD3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 13:40:19 ase [~se@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #scheme 13:40:58 -!- 16SAASIHE [~hiroaki@p54A6B1E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:33 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 13:47:33 -!- sethalves [~user@headache.hungry.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:48:10 jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-67.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:48:38 sethalves [~user@headache.hungry.com] has joined #scheme 13:50:33 -!- mmc [~michal@178-85-64-28.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:52:20 NIGHT`ELF [NIGHTELF@mac.os.x.forever.bergon.net] has joined #scheme 13:52:31 hello can some one help me with my prolog expert system i offer money real money 13:53:46 isn't there #prolog or sth? :D 13:54:05 yes but nno body alife therre and no body answers and probably no one needs money ;[ 13:54:11 I only work for play money 13:54:42 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 13:54:43 My prices are 800 Euro/hour with 40 hour minimum. 14:06:26 mmc [~michal@178-85-64-28.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 14:22:29 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:34:59 -!- sethalves is now known as sethAway 14:37:56 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:12 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-21-70.dynamic.telemach.ba] has joined #scheme 14:41:53 wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 14:49:27 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-21-70.dynamic.telemach.ba] has joined #scheme 14:53:30 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-21-70.dynamic.telemach.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:04:23 -!- wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:13:29 Riastradh 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[~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 18:41:01 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.127.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:41:44 cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-31-206.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 18:48:22 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 18:49:05 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 18:53:53 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-31-206.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:00:15 -!- snorble_ [~snorble@213.101.209.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:11:29 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:11:59 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 19:25:00 -!- tupi [~user@186.205.46.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:33:02 Houshalter [~Houshalte@oh-74-5-164-185.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #scheme 19:35:42 wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:43:03 -!- wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:12:59 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-170-209.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:35 apeman_ [~apeman@133.241.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #scheme 20:16:43 in GRacket REPL, how do you get previous line? 20:18:49 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-170-209.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:19:23 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:19:52 apeman_: M-p, I think. (That is, Alt and p) 20:20:15 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 20:21:44 does everyone tend to pretty-print scheme the same way? 20:24:21 More or less, Emacs tends to be the canonical source, AFAIK. But see this if you care enough: http://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/style.txt 20:29:23 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 20:36:57 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-1.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:17 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-1.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 20:38:16 what kind of rules would be used to format: 20:38:25 http://ideone.com/3tL2Is 20:38:45 Common sense. 20:39:16 common sense is learned 20:39:55 You can also use: (- x (- y z)) == (- (+ x z) y) 20:40:20 So it should be the same as: 20:40:20 (/ (+ a e (- (+ b d (/ g p)) f)) 20:40:20 (* k (- e i) (- b z))) 20:40:35 Then associativity + and - 20:40:48 So it should be the same as: 20:40:48 (/ (- (+ a e b d (/ g p)) f) 20:40:48 (* k (- e i) (- b z))) 20:41:04 But then, perhaps there are numerical computing reasons why it was written as it was in the first place. 20:41:18 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 20:41:36 yes it can be simplified. i was wondering more like 20:41:44 2 lines is enough, or should be more lines? 20:41:55 In this case, I think 2 lines are enough. 20:42:03 I'd wonder more about the name of the variables 20:42:53 yea. they are actually numbers but then someone might say just do (- (/ 37 150)) 20:43:25 Also, if your program is heavy in mathematical formulae (eg. taken from a "book"), you can write a few macros to let you type them in as they are written in the book source. Something like: (infix (a+e+b+d+g/p-f)/(k*(e-i)*(b-z))) 20:44:23 -37/150 20:49:44 h 20:49:45 so who has no life is here now 21:06:47 u me both 21:07:23 go get one 21:07:28 it's not THAT hard. 21:07:49 how? 21:07:58 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: KEEP SPARKS. FLAME AWAY.] 21:08:22 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #scheme 21:13:09 learn social skills, do field work, experiment, get better 21:13:19 unlike many people, you have a brain - so use it 21:14:14 find yourself a girlfriend. 21:16:05 -!- ASau [~user@217.118.90.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:17:16 even if i had those skills, there would need to be people that i like 21:18:16 it's a big world. There are. 21:18:50 also, start easy -- you won't get the optimal results until you've made progress, but you can enjoy the progress before you've reach optimal status 21:20:45 it's hard to do worse than I did. Yet I am now happily married with kid. 21:23:35 i dunno about that 21:24:21 i am here because of who i am, not just the lack of outgoingness 21:27:13 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:36:46 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:40:55 anyway 21:41:09 know what you want 21:46:57 -!- NIGHT`ELF is now known as night`elf`YEAR 21:47:11 -!- night`elf`YEAR is now known as night`elf`NEW^^Y 21:47:19 -!- night`elf`NEW^^Y is now known as elf`NEW^YEAR 21:50:05 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:52:00 -!- ase [~se@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:13 -!- Houshalter [~Houshalte@oh-74-5-164-185.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:00:10 damn is macro magic satisfying 22:00:58 happy new year 22:01:22 it's still 2012 where i am 22:02:25 snowylike dont worrie dude 22:05:05 `quote` [~quote@c-98-234-17-207.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:09:30 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:10:16 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 22:12:54 -!- `quote` [~quote@c-98-234-17-207.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:14:24 -!- graememcc [~chatzilla@host86-157-250-186.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121129165506]] 22:41:13 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:42:18 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 22:46:24 -!- apeman_ [~apeman@133.241.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:24 -!- notdan [~h@rootshell.me] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:25 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:25 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:25 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:25 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fnogobxoqrbsyknn] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:25 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-d7b3e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:25 -!- tizoc [~user@unaffiliated/tizoc] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:46:31 SHODAN [~shozan@c-d7b3e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 22:46:34 tizoc [~user@unaffiliated/tizoc] has joined #scheme 22:46:41 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 22:46:41 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 22:46:55 apeman_ [~apeman@133.241.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #scheme 22:47:02 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hkeoiknvdgmicgzz] has joined #scheme 22:47:22 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 22:49:13 zeroish [~zeroish@c-69-248-213-122.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:51:18 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 22:51:31 notdan [~h@rootshell.me] has joined #scheme 22:51:31 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@c-69-248-213-122.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:29 zeroish [~zeroish@c-69-248-213-122.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:55:27 in scheme, a web page claims that (if uses normal order evaluation. Is this technically accurate, since (if short circuits? 22:55:34 Houshalter [~Houshalte@oh-74-5-164-185.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #scheme 22:58:31 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@c-69-248-213-122.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:58:43 jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #scheme 23:02:43 IMO, that's a strained way of looking at 'if', but I can see what they're getting at. What web page, btw? 23:03:03 http://community.schemewiki.org/?sicp-ex-1.6 23:06:35 It's a defensible way of looking at 'if', sure. 23:07:26 With normal order evaluation, the arguments to a procedure are not evaluated unless they are used, and they are evaluated only once. 23:08:26 'if' always evaluates the condition, and depending on its value, proceeds to return either the consequent or alternate expressions. 23:08:48 zeroish [~zeroish@c-69-248-213-122.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:09:48 However, a real normal order evaluator would not even evaluate the consequent or alternate expr of the 'if' until the values of those expressions were needed by some primitive operation such as 'car', 'cdr', '+', etc. 23:11:32 For example: (define (f x) 5) followed by (f (if #t (/ 3 0) (/ 5 0))) 23:11:58 a real normal order evaluator would never perform any divisions in that example, because 'x' is not used by 'f'. 23:12:23 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@c-69-248-213-122.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:24 i thought normal order expands them regardless of whether they are needed 23:12:43 zeroish [~zeroish@c-69-248-213-122.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:13:49 no, that's applicative order. scheme uses applicative order for normal procedure calls. 23:14:16 applicative order means that all of the arguments to a procedure are evaluated before calling the procedure. 23:15:02 see http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/sicp/book/node85.html 23:17:23 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:17:31 i am confused by: ``fully expand and then reduce'' evaluation method is known as normal-order evaluation 23:18:23 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 23:18:55 apeman_: are you working through SICP? if so, how far along are you? it may be premature to try to understand the distinction. SICP will cover the difference in detail later in the book. 23:19:17 yes, im on chapter 1 of SICP 23:21:26 In the "Metalinguistic Abstraction" chapter of SICP, you will even build a Scheme interpreter and modify it to use normal order evaluation. At that point, it will much easier for you to understand the distinction. 23:22:24 (I can try to explain it if you are impatient, but I suspect it will be better to learn things in the proper order) 23:23:28 i can wait 23:30:33 -!- Houshalter [~Houshalte@oh-74-5-164-185.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:32:02 Houshalter [~Houshalte@oh-74-5-164-185.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #scheme 23:33:59 apeman__ [~apeman@62.241.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #scheme 23:35:46 -!- apeman_ [~apeman@133.241.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:35:52 -!- apeman__ is now known as apeman_ 23:41:06 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A6AD18.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 23:41:25 hiroaki [~hiroaki@p54A6AD18.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme