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Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 05:38:54 b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 05:50:38 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:02:26 .-.. --- 06:02:53 is logic programming basically ai? 06:04:59 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #scheme 06:10:13 -!- pjb [~t@cust-seco21th2-46-193-64-247.wb.wifirst.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:15:24 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:21:20 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:22:22 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 06:28:00 -!- carleastlund [~cce@c-98-223-186-213.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 06:58:06 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.200.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:22:01 mmc [~michal@178-85-56-58.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 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[~g@209-6-150-35.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 08:39:17 :) racket!!! 08:39:19 oh yeah 08:41:31 -!- bjz [~brendanza@CPE-121-222-141-160.lnse1.woo.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:45:38 bjz [~brendanza@CPE-121-222-141-160.lnse1.woo.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 08:50:20 -!- republican_devil [~g@209-6-150-35.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:58:15 jrapdx [~jra@c-76-115-235-187.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:08:08 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:14:12 wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 09:19:44 -!- mmc [~michal@178-85-56-58.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:31:41 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #scheme 09:34:24 -!- pnpu1f [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:48:46 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Read error: Operation timed 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[~Jayrays@unaffiliated/jayrays] has joined #scheme 23:22:18 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-141-181.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:49 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:57 kencausey [~ken@67.15.6.88] has joined #scheme 23:31:09 jao [~user@232.Red-83-32-71.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:31:09 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-131.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:31:15 -!- jao [~user@232.Red-83-32-71.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:31:15 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 23:36:05 If I were restricting myself to R5RS what is the idiomatic way to do forall? I tried to use something like (apply and (map ...)) but I guess and is a macro and can't be used with apply. 23:36:35 Perhaps I really need to implement forall with recursion? 23:36:44 kencausey: What does `forall' do ? 23:36:53 Is it like for-each ? 23:37:05 taylanub: It's more like SRFI-1 `every', I think. 23:37:21 Maybe I'm using the wrong name. I mean basically every 23:37:23 kencausey: Is this roughly the semantics of forall? http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-1/srfi-1.html#every 23:37:28 True for all values 23:37:35 Or fail at first false anyway 23:37:55 kencausey: SRFI-1 is itself idiomatic; if you don't want to use it, why not just extract the code for the reference SRFI-1 implementation? 23:38:09 s/for/from/. 23:38:26 Well, sure, but I was thinking that there was something like my apply and that was idiomatic and relatively simply to slip in. 23:38:41 (apply values (map ...))? 23:38:58 No, that won't do; give me a sec. 23:39:05 Thanks 23:39:36 Maybe I'm wrong but I thought this would come up often. 23:40:06 kencausey: It does; that's why we use SRFI-1. 23:40:17 :) 23:40:21 I think for-all is indeed the canonical name, don't know how I could forget. 23:40:29 Yeah, I forgot the hyphen 23:40:32 kencausey: I'd say reduce over `and' wrapped in lambda; but reduce is also srfi-1. 23:40:32 that in r6rs 23:41:10 (But then SRFI-1 calls it `every' ..) 23:41:10 Idiomatic reduce is likely to be my next question. ;) 23:41:36 kencausey: If this is some exercise in Spartan self-restriction, I'd say you're stuck with a named let; doing the folding yourself. 23:41:51 OK, that's more or less what I wanted to know. 23:42:14 Same with reduce: named-let (or some other mechanism) and an accumulator. 23:42:40 `Idiomatic' is a little weird to me, though; people don't bandy it about with Scheme very much. 23:42:51 It's vaguely reminiscent of Python or Ruby; where things are rife with idiom. 23:43:07 Idiom-this, idiom-that; Jesus Christ. 23:43:30 Maybe it's some synonym for group-think. 23:44:07 Well, there is value in writing code in a way that anyone else familiar with the language/community is going to find clear because common formations (aka idiom) are used. 23:44:08 I guess there's `bad' Scheme and `good' Scheme; where bad Scheme is generally `bad looking.' 23:44:13 Maybe that's what they're talking about. 23:44:56 I'm a newbie here, so while I CAN do something in some way, I would like to learn the common way some of these clearly repeating patterns are usually implemented. 23:44:58 kencausey: The idioms in Scheme are things like tail-recursion instead of iteration, I'd say; maybe I'm wrong. 23:45:33 OK, I consider tail recursion a fallback but maybe I've just been using Clojure too much. 23:45:55 It's not a bad idea to read through the reference implementation of SRFI-1, in that case; it's hard to go wrong with Olin, although he does have some idiosyncratic idioms. 23:46:02 kencausey: No, tail recursion is meat and potatoes. 23:46:06 OK, will do 23:46:30 Clojure is subject to the tyranny of the JVM and lack of dynamic dispatch (hence recur). 23:46:33 By the way I see schemers.org front page is still broken. Anyone know who to contact? 23:46:36 We don't suffer from those constraints, though. 23:46:46 kencausey: Someone else mentioned that; not sure. 23:46:49 Clojure is slowly escaping the bounds of the JVM 23:46:55 I mentioned it yesterday 23:46:55 Really? How so? 23:47:12 Hickey's reimplementing it in JS? 23:47:22 Or mono or something weird? 23:47:26 Clojure also runs on Javascript and CLR and there are other less active environments 23:47:39 Yes those and others, python, llvm, etc. 23:47:50 Mostly still in the alpha or less stage though 23:47:53 I thought those were just little side-experiments; interesting to see if they gain traction. 23:48:24 JVM is still clearly THE Clojure though. 23:48:28 Same problem, though: many of those host-environments don't support tail-recursion optimization per se: still have to resort to trampolines, &c. 23:48:43 ClojureScript has as much support as Clojure at this point and has perhaps more momentum. 23:48:50 Interesting 23:50:24 kencausey: , by the way. 23:50:33 Thanks, just got there myself 23:51:12 Actually, I hadn't found the link to the reference implementatoin yet, so thanks 23:51:24 Bottom of the page 23:51:51 First thing I did after taking a Clojure-hiatus and coming back to Scheme was writing a documentation system that links directly to the source-code; just like the Clojure docs. 23:51:58 That's not a bad innovation, that. 23:52:14 indeed 23:52:16 And forward-chaining, too; I'll give that to him. 23:52:36 spiderwe` [~user@67-0-174-231.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 23:53:27 -!- spiderwe` [~user@67-0-174-231.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:02 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:59:09 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme