00:00:49 DT`` [~ea@79.53.87.168] has joined #scheme 00:01:47 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:03:47 realitygrill [~realitygr@209-6-30-187.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:03:53 -!- DT` [~ea@host168-87-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:04:10 I have a list of closures. Is there a member? analog to test if a closure is in the list? 00:07:18 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:08:51 ijp` [~user@host31-52-140-210.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 00:09:17 member should work just fine 00:10:07 as long as you're looking for an identical closure, and not one that's merely "equal" 00:10:45 turbofail: member? or member; i used member? and got an error 00:10:54 maybe just member 00:10:57 hiptobecubic [~john@unaffiliated/hiptobecubic] has joined #scheme 00:10:59 ijp`` [~user@host31-52-23-158.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 00:11:10 -!- ijp`` [~user@host31-52-23-158.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:11:24 -!- ijp [~user@host81-159-30-33.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:11:26 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:11:37 adiii [~adityavit@c-68-45-153-184.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:11:44 ijp [~user@host31-52-23-158.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 00:11:55 -!- ijp` [~user@host31-52-140-210.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:11:57 just member, no question mark 00:12:23 Is there a way to construct lists like (range 0 10) -> (list 0, 1, 2....) 00:12:37 ijp: i think i'll use memq, as i want eq? 00:12:55 hiptobecubic: if your scheme has srfi-1, then you could do (iota 10) 00:13:17 apparently not 00:13:19 well, really you want eqv?, but in this particular instance, that doesn't matter 00:14:00 I think few people realise/care about the difference between eqv? and eq? 00:14:17 mark_weaver [~user@TURNTABLE.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:14:37 rudybot: eval (require srfi/1) 00:14:37 ski: Done. 00:14:45 rudybot: eval (iota 4 10 2) 00:14:46 ski: ; Value: (10 12 14 16) 00:14:59 ijp: why do you think i want to use eqv? instead of eq? 00:15:22 covi: in this case, I said it doesn't matter 00:15:27 hiptobecubic: almost every scheme has srfi-1, but you might need to load it explicitly. which scheme are you using? 00:15:53 gambit-c 00:16:00 covi: but in general, people tend use eq? when they mean eqv? 00:16:29 hiptobecubic: ah, yes, that's one of the very few that doesn't include srfi-1. 00:17:31 but there's this: http://dynamo.iro.umontreal.ca/~gambit/wiki/index.php/File:Srfi1.scm 00:17:32 ijp: interesting. what's the diff. between eqv? and eq? 00:18:43 eq? may behave differently on characters, numbers, and probably a few other cases that I don't remember 00:20:41 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-ijshhnfvsphhkvpu] has joined #scheme 00:22:21 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 00:27:47 -!- huseby [~huseby@ip65-47-28-158.z28-47-65.customer.algx.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:30:27 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 00:34:18 -!- mmc [~michal@178.85.56.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:35:52 -!- masm [~masm@bl18-43-68.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:37:39 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:45:41 -!- hiptobecubic [~john@unaffiliated/hiptobecubic] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:47:48 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:51:06 -!- snorble_ [~snorble@213.101.209.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:00:56 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 01:04:09 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 01:04:17 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:04:21 -!- mark_weaver [~user@TURNTABLE.MIT.EDU] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:16:24 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 01:19:02 rudybot: are you bamboozling the #scheme denizens again? Naughty 01:19:03 *offby1: time difference never seemed too much of a difficulty for the denizens of this channel to me. 01:39:43 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:41:08 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:41:45 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 01:44:59 b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 01:49:20 SlitazMint [~ivar@189.38.208.215] has joined #scheme 01:54:44 -!- Blkt [~user@62.10.10.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55:51 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:58:37 ympbyc [~ympbyc@220.98.6.134] has joined #scheme 02:02:12 peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 02:09:54 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-ijshhnfvsphhkvpu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:14:17 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:14:22 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:15:21 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:15:39 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:23:30 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-lezxllkhiktsuvto] has joined #scheme 02:23:35 jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 02:27:15 I want to write a C compiler with scheme. 02:27:56 like seriously actually. 02:28:04 a scheme C compiler. 02:28:14 then, do it? 02:28:42 or are you looking for people to convince you otherwise 02:29:05 what advantages would my compiler have over other compilers? 02:29:28 hm.. 02:30:43 Maintainability, perhaps. Gcc is at the extreme end of the speed/portability tradeoff; it compiles slowly but handles lots of chips and OSes. 02:33:13 well, I need to understand sicp first, but this is a longterm goal of mine. 02:33:25 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-129-191.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:34:58 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:36:24 spiderweb, WHY? 02:36:52 -!- confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:28 spiderweb, there were those guys who had a partial evaluator for C in scheme. But they used an existing library for parsing C, it's too much of a hell to get all the details right. 02:37:29 Fare: I'm wondering if I can make a more reliable compiler with scheme. 02:37:46 how many years of work do you want to put in it? 02:38:57 Fare: 1-2 years to get it up and running, @ least working a little bit. will it take that long to make a working compiler? 02:39:16 confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #scheme 02:39:31 linus made his initial kernel in a relatively short time span. a compiler wouldn't seem to be as complex to me. 02:40:20 in 1-2 years, I doubt you can do anything useful, except a proof of concept 02:40:36 spiderweb, you underestimate the blubness of C, and all the nasty details. 02:40:54 what would you target? 02:41:02 what about you help with a more interesting project? 02:41:09 say, I want a Linear Lisp 02:41:24 well, first I need to seriosuly get thru sicp. 02:41:25 or rather, say, Linear Scheme. 02:41:33 THAT would be novel. 02:41:56 That would be a Good Thing. I assume you would want to deliver something Forthish as the IL? 02:42:26 I don't think so, not forth. 02:42:33 as an intermediate language 02:42:54 what's the advantage of Forth as the IL? 02:43:14 It also is linear unless and until you use a DUP-like operator. 02:43:19 for performance, you want to emulate the registers of the underlying architecture 02:43:28 http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/LinearLisp.html <-- read this first 02:43:35 with FORTH, you'll end up wasting cycles in administrative copying 02:43:59 well, let's say I just use scheme for the front end to the compiler. 02:44:06 jcowan, explicit DUP operators, regions in which a linear object appears classical to users, etc. 02:44:12 and then something else already existing for the backend. 02:44:20 spiderweb, what remains? 02:45:22 Occasionally you do need a value more than once, so there is no getting away from duping at the source level of a LL. 02:46:01 jcowan, yes and no. Once again, regions. 02:46:07 Actually, this is the one I wanted: http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/ForthStack.html 02:46:29 one man's linear value is another man's forever immutable value. 02:46:57 but yes, explicit duping can be nice... when it's available. 02:48:09 Here's a closed quadratic formula solver in LL: 02:48:10 (defun quadratic (a b c) ; stack is now ...abc 02:48:10 (let* ((a a-prime (dup a)) (b b-prime (dup b))) ; [footnote 3] 02:48:10 (/ (+ (- b-prime) (sqrt (- (square b) (* 4 (* a c))))) 02:48:10 (* 2 a-prime)))) 02:48:33 This compiles to [roll3 dup roll4 dup neg roll2 square '4 roll5 roll6 * * - sqrt + '2 roll3 * /] 02:48:45 yup 02:49:06 that's cool man 02:49:23 -!- confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:50:29 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:51:00 I have much to learn. 02:52:01 we all do 02:52:20 if you like Forth and Scheme, see Factor 02:55:52 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:57:08 *ski* wonders whether Fare wants linearity or uniqueness 02:59:49 kind of both 03:00:09 Fare: yeah, maybe I should focus on something more useful. 03:00:23 I just want to do a _real_ project with scheme you know? 03:00:33 Sure. Linear Scheme. 03:00:41 It's well past due a project. 03:00:51 Or if you can deal with CL, I have plenty of projects. 03:01:06 I'm not ready yet, but down the road. I still need to get thru sicp 03:01:16 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #scheme 03:01:35 just brainstorming I guess. sorry. out loud. 03:02:08 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:02:09 not to flood the channel or anything.. 03:02:36 tali713 [~user@76.17.236.129] has joined #scheme 03:03:03 np 03:03:20 Advice: pick something SLIGHTLY different from what other people do. 03:03:43 ok 03:03:44 this way, you cannot just cargo cult, you have to actually do and learn 03:03:57 AND, if you hit it big, you get something useful for other people. 03:04:06 that's cool 03:10:21 confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #scheme 03:16:36 -!- confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:34:02 astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-247-103.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 03:40:03 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 03:42:47 -!- copumpkin is now known as Sssateneth 03:43:31 -!- Sssateneth is now known as copumpkin 03:54:31 confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #scheme 03:59:55 -!- SlitazMint [~ivar@189.38.208.215] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:10:32 How can I grow a vector? vector-set! gives out-of-range errors for indices outside of (vector-length v). make-vector lets you set a fill value, but not initialize it from an existing vector. 04:11:24 You can't: vectors are fixed length. 04:11:37 aw cmon, don't be a defeatest. 04:11:52 Decent soil, some standard fertilizer, and a south-facing windowsill are all you should need 04:12:10 Your best bet is to call make-vector to get twice as big a vector and copy the elements into it. 04:12:35 jcowan: Thanks 04:12:37 You'll have to have either a variable or a simple data structure like a pair to keep a hold of the current identity of the vector. 04:13:14 offby1: haha :) 04:13:54 if you're using a fancy-shmancy scheme, there may be some other sort of data structure that you can use, that is more or less like a vector, but does let you grow it. 04:14:01 can't think of what it'd be called offhand though. 04:17:14 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 04:21:11 rudybot: (require srfi/43) 04:21:12 ski: Done. 04:21:20 rudybot: eval (let* ((v (vector 2 3 5 7)) (n (vector-length v))) (vector-unfold (lambda (i) (if (< i n) (vector-ref v i) 42)) (* 2 n))) 04:21:20 ski: error: car: expects argument of type ; given: #f 04:21:57 madsy: I have one I prepared earlier, if you'll give me a moment to find it 04:25:42 funny how languages like perl and python have lists that grow, but us schemers never seem to want that feature 04:30:34 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-154-130.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 04:34:57 -!- ijp [~user@host31-52-23-158.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36:14 ijp [~user@host31-52-23-158.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 04:36:54 I swear, there is some unwritten law of computers that offering help to someone is the quickest way to freeze your irc client 04:37:39 offby1: I think they go by a few names, but the one I know them under is "arraylist" 04:38:03 I've probably run across a library or two that has them, but I've never missed them while writing scheme 04:40:48 offby1, isn't there a SRFI for that? 04:41:05 nope 04:41:21 https://gist.github.com/2433305 was the version I wrote before, but it uses foof loop, so it would need some slight tweaking 04:43:51 *ijp* makes a note to finish this and package it for guile 04:55:37 Twey [~Twey@unaffiliated/twey] has joined #scheme 04:56:41 ijp: Instead of doubling the size of the vector, you may be better multiplying it by 3/2 and adding a small constant. Then you don't have to special-case if the original size is 0. 04:57:00 3/2? You mean, the golden ratio, don't you? 04:57:04 ijp: There's some thread where people believed that the optimal growth factor is actually phi (1.618...) 04:57:06 Yes. 04:57:22 But 1.618... is inexact. 3/2 is exact and fairly easy to write. 04:58:10 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:58:32 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-lezxllkhiktsuvto] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:59:10 I'll stick it in the todo.txt, no guarantees 04:59:19 Hehehe. 04:59:46 rudybot: (/ (add1 (sqrt 5)) 2) 04:59:47 cky: your sandbox is ready 04:59:47 cky: ; Value: 1.618033988749895 04:59:53 rudybot: (define phi (/ (add1 (sqrt 5)) 2)) 04:59:54 cky: Done. 05:00:19 rudybot: (expt phi 10) 05:00:19 cky: ; Value: 122.99186938124426 05:00:26 rudybot: (expt phi 9) 05:00:26 cky: ; Value: 76.01315561749645 05:01:28 more important is I no longer seem to have, er, misplaced, the test cases 05:01:33 Oh, I forgot. The Fibonacci sequence is phi^n divided by (sqrt 5), not phi^n directly. But, like, if you have a powers-of-phi table, you just go up to the next size when the current size is exceeded. 05:01:36 s/no longer// 05:01:46 ijp: :-O You'll have to write some new ones! :-P 05:02:10 rudybot: (log 4096 phi) 05:02:11 cky: error: log: expects 1 argument, given 2: 4096 1.618033988749895 05:02:17 rudybot: (/ (log 4096) (log phi)) 05:02:17 cky: ; Value: 17.285041084950674 05:02:28 the second argument to log is an r6rs extension 05:02:30 rudybot: (expt phi 17) 05:02:30 cky: ; Value: 3571.000280033584 05:02:32 ijp: Hahaha. 05:02:37 dunno if it made it into r7 05:03:51 I _almost_ think it would be better to provide log2 log10 and ln 05:08:56 cky: actually, I think I'm just going to appropriate vectors.test from guile, and be done with it :) 05:09:21 I still need tests for extending them, but that's less work 05:11:03 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 05:13:34 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-68-45-153-184.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:13:35 ijp: Yes, it did. 05:16:31 bah, that won't work as nicely because of exception type differences 05:16:35 jcowan: TIL 05:17:01 *ijp* sucks it up and writes a real test suite 05:18:16 cky : .. i suppose you could use actual fibonacci numbers 05:22:11 -!- bjz [~brendanza@203-206-132-21.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 05:26:04 rudybot: eval (define-values (phi-0 phi-1) (apply values (map (lambda (f) (/ (f 1 (sqrt 5)) 2)) (list + -)))) 05:26:04 ski: Done. 05:26:12 rudybot: eval (define (fibonacci n) (/ (- (expt phi-0 n) (expt phi-1 n)) (- phi-0 phi-1))) 05:26:12 ski: Done. 05:26:46 rudybot: eval (map fibonacci (iota 13)) 05:26:46 ski: ; Value: (0 1.0 1.0 2.0 3.0000000000000004 5.000000000000001 8.000000000000002 13.000000000000002 21.000000000000004 34.00000000000001 55.000000000000014 89.00000000000003 144.00000000000006) 05:27:25 Looks like you want to use floor. 05:27:37 or maybe round (just in case) 05:27:47 Mmm. 05:28:06 and, you'd still need to use exact 05:28:15 presumably the errors will become too large, for large enough inputs 05:29:03 or inexact->exact for r5rs users 05:29:53 keeping track of two succedent fibonacci numbers exactly is easier, i think 05:30:23 (their ratio will tend to `phi' as they increase) 05:31:32 ski: According to Knuth, since phi-1 (in your case) is < 1, (expt phi-1 n) gets very, very small for larger n. In practice, you can skip that term, and let "round" handle the difference directly. 05:32:46 all things considered, doubling, or cky's 3/2 +  suggestion is much more obvious, than tracking fibs 05:32:58 rudybot: (define fib (let ((sqrt5 (sqrt 5)) (phi (/ (add1 sqrt5) 2))) (lambda (n) (round (/ (expt phi n) sqrt5))))) 05:32:59 cky: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: sqrt5 in module: 'program 05:33:12 rudybot: (define fib (let* ((sqrt5 (sqrt 5)) (phi (/ (add1 sqrt5) 2))) (lambda (n) (round (/ (expt phi n) sqrt5))))) 05:33:12 cky: Done. 05:33:20 rudybot: (map fib (range 20)) 05:33:21 cky: ; Value: (0.0 1.0 1.0 2.0 3.0 5.0 8.0 13.0 21.0 34.0 55.0 89.0 144.0 233.0 377.0 610.0 987.0 1597.0 2584.0 4181.0) 05:34:55 ijp: I can't speak about platforms with managed memory systems (especially one with a moving GC), but in C++, which has no GC, let alone a moving one, doubling can actually cause massive memory holes. 05:35:19 cky : hm. looked like the errors were increasing above. i wonder when they'd be larger than `1/2' 05:36:13 ski: Well, floating-point numbers have limited precision, so at sufficiently-large n, you will see real errors. 05:36:26 ski: Knuth's claim is for actual numbers, not FP. 05:36:35 ok 05:37:14 at large sizes, I can see that, but surely that would hold for phi too? 05:37:28 rudybot: eval (values phi-0 phi-1) 05:37:28 ski: ; Value: 1.618033988749895 05:37:29 ski: ; Value#2: -0.6180339887498949 05:37:31 ijp: It's the (expt phi n) that errors out, not the smaller term. 05:37:37 the solution then would be to decrease the rate as the vectors get larger 05:37:55 cky: re: memory fragmentation 05:38:43 (those are the two possible solutions `x' for `x^2 - x - 1 = 0') 05:40:03 ijp: I wrote about this, with actual numbers, in a Stack Overflow post years ago. I'm hunting it now. 05:40:49 adiii [~adityavit@76.117.52.187] has joined #scheme 05:40:58 So, I see Stack Overflow's search facility is throttled, and I managed to hit it. \o/ 05:41:46 anyway, priorities. Testing and packaging first, making it scale to 1000000000 sized vectors second. :) 05:42:45 ;-) 05:42:56 superjudge [~mjl@37-46-176-69.customers.ownit.se] has joined #scheme 05:46:57 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:49:07 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-154-130.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:58:28 mark_weaver [~user@209-6-91-212.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 06:00:00 cky: a better way to calculate fibonacci numbers quickly is to use matrix exponentiation. See http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2011-01/txtGaSbapq3P2.txt 06:01:01 that can be done with exact arithmetic, and thus works for arbitrarily large fibonacci numbers, bounded only by available memory. 06:01:34 *ski* was assuming cky already knew how to compute them by keeping the last two around 06:02:29 (at least, that's what i meant by "keeping track of two succedent fibonacci numbers", though perhaps that was opaque) 06:04:48 ski: indeed, but then the next step is to keep matrices which allows you to compute the Nth fibonacci number in O(log(N)) matrix multiplications. 06:04:53 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 06:05:15 -!- jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has left #scheme 06:06:34 (and it uses only 2x2 matrices) 06:06:35 mark_weaver : hm, ok. *looks more closely* 06:07:52 -!- b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:08:14 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:08:38 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:08:49 Most of that file is the (not very good) matrix implementation for GOOPS. Once you have that, the code to compute the fibonacci is only 6 lines (at the end of the file). 06:09:00 i see 06:17:23 b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 06:19:37 on my system, that program takes 78 milliseconds to compute the one millionth fibonacci number (208988 decimal digits), and 1.21 seconds to compute the ten millionth one (2089877 digits). 06:19:38 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:20:27 (though printing those numbers takes considerably longer) 06:22:16 mark_weaver: Nice. :-) 06:22:25 ski: Well, of course. (Re keeping the last 2 values.) 06:22:41 interesting stuff 06:25:00 the basic idea is that the matrix [0 1][1 1] represents a single step of the fibonacci iteration, because it transforms the column vector (a b) to (b a+b). 06:25:05 niels1 [~niels@p4FD6FF01.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 06:25:56 so then you just exponentiate the matrix, using the usual fast exponentiation algorithm. 06:26:22 what i hadn't realized before was that you could employ the fast exponentiation here 06:26:24 and then multiply that matrix by the starting state (0 1) 06:29:00 that's cute 06:29:13 this same trick can be used to speed up any iteration where the iteration step is a linear map. 06:29:17 yup 06:31:47 ecraven [~user@178.79.130.240] has joined #scheme 06:36:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.28] has joined #scheme 06:36:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.28] has quit [Changing host] 06:36:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 07:01:39 -!- impaktor [~user@b2.thep.lu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:52 impaktor [~user@b2.thep.lu.se] has joined #scheme 07:02:47 -!- niels1 [~niels@p4FD6FF01.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:12:33 -!- mark_weaver [~user@209-6-91-212.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:13:29 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:16:09 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 07:18:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:20:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.28] has joined #scheme 07:20:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.28] has quit [Changing host] 07:20:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 07:20:54 -!- rotty [rotty@de.xx.vu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:21:03 rotty [rotty@de.xx.vu] has joined #scheme 07:38:01 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.180.211] has joined #scheme 07:38:24 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #scheme 07:38:24 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:38:24 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:46:49 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme 07:47:49 -!- fds [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:48:10 fds [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 07:48:30 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:48:59 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 07:54:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:56:09 wingo [~wingo@83.54.7.88] has joined #scheme 07:56:55 civodul [~user@193.50.110.189] has joined #scheme 08:01:23 -!- wingo [~wingo@83.54.7.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:10:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.173] has joined #scheme 08:10:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.173] has quit [Changing host] 08:10:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 08:16:57 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:21:24 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:43:04 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #scheme 08:44:08 niels1 [~niels@p4FD6F691.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:53:12 -!- hypnocat [~hypnocat@unaffiliated/hypnocat] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:01:10 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:21:58 Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.196.89] has joined #scheme 09:22:08 hail Scheme 09:25:17 hail 09:38:58 *ski* . o O ( "hail storms will be no surprise late afternoon" ) 09:43:29 hiptobecubic [~john@unaffiliated/hiptobecubic] has joined #scheme 09:43:40 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@37-144-103-248.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:47:04 just something from Captain America 09:47:07 =] 09:47:24 He says "hail scheme" ? 09:47:51 yep 09:48:20 What/who is scheme in the move? 09:48:24 *movie 09:49:17 in the movie it's a different gang 09:49:43 which stand for an idea.. So now I replace it with this. 09:53:09 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.180.211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:03 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:56:32 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 10:00:04 masm [~masm@bl18-43-68.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 10:07:56 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD93630.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:08:10 taylanub [tub@79.217.75.68] has joined #scheme 10:11:56 Gmind: I think you meant, "Heil, #scheme!" I know the scene you're talking about. 10:12:03 -!- hiptobecubic [~john@unaffiliated/hiptobecubic] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:12:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:12:03 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:12:03 -!- ffs [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:12:03 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:12:03 -!- blubberdiblub [~foobar@blubberdiblub.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:12:03 -!- BossKonaSegwaY1 [~Michael@cpe-75-187-42-68.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:12:03 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:12:03 -!- cibs [~cibs@219.87.142.18] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:12:03 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:12:03 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-eccde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:12:03 -!- ozzloy 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[Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:33:57 -!- b4283 [~b4283@1-172-86-95.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:41:04 hiyosi [~hiyosi@19.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #scheme 14:42:37 -!- Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.196.89] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:45:31 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:45:56 b4283 [~b4283@1-172-86-95.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 14:46:48 -!- wingo [~wingo@62.37.74.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:01:43 Scheme has no 'return' keyword. Discuss. 15:04:19 `return', as found in e.g. C, C++, Java, C# isn't compositional 15:06:01 What's "compositional" mean? 15:06:02 by which i mean, you can't generally factor out a block of code to a difference procedure (passing common variables as arguments), because any `return' in that block would now return from the new procedure, instead of from the old one 15:06:24 *LeoNerd* nod.. 15:06:34 Yeah; it wasn't a complaint as such, simply an observation 15:06:38 otoh, using `call-with-escape-continuation', this isn't a problem 15:06:57 Well.. yes. :) Given that 'return' is just activating an escape cont. 15:07:00 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 15:14:59 jao [~jao@83.32.71.232] has joined #scheme 15:15:02 -!- jao [~jao@83.32.71.232] has quit [Changing host] 15:15:02 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 15:15:11 -!- niels2 [~niels@p4FD6F621.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:16:13 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:31:18 -!- superjudge [~mjl@37-46-176-69.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:31:53 I wonder how a purely functioal and combinatory logic based Scheme would be .. In other words, an eager evaluated, dynamically typed Haskell written in s-expressions. :P 15:32:26 huseby [~huseby@home.husebyhome.com] has joined #scheme 15:33:18 (hm, Haskell has bound variables, so couldn't really be considered a "combinatory logic") 15:33:22 (But it'd be closer to Scheme than Haskell, I guess. Static typing and lazy evaluation are very central to Haskell, after all.) 15:33:42 ski: Oh .. the function parameters, right ? 15:33:47 -!- masm [~masm@bl18-43-68.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:34:08 True, I've been told this just the other than and apparently forgot again. They call them "symbols" and not "variables" though, since they are indeed *not* variable. 15:34:13 yes. you can do a lot with function parameters (even in Scheme ;), without mutation or other side-effects 15:34:31 masm [~masm@bl18-43-68.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 15:34:51 (Hrm, but they are variable in the sense that you can pass varying arguments to the function.) 15:35:08 OK, I guess just "purely functional" is the correct terminology, then. 15:35:22 who are "they" ? 15:35:30 *ski* . o O ( ) 15:35:30 http://tinyurl.com/aosgbvl 15:35:51 Hehe. Can't remember in which channel it was. 15:36:12 If you don't have set! and friends, then you can likely get away with lazy evaluation in Scheme. Though you'd need some way to force it for things like IO side-effects 15:36:25 in Scheme, symbols and variables are distinguished 15:37:11 ski: Oh right, it has nothing to do with the symbol data type. 15:37:20 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 15:37:46 (LeoNerd : one way would be monads. another would be to have a separate language category for expressing I/O. possibly there are more options) 15:37:57 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-140-251.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:38:33 right, symbols are one way to *represent* identifiers in an AST datum representing an expression (or other language phrase) 15:58:56 Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.196.89] has joined #scheme 16:07:46 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Quit: MichaelRaskin] 16:10:36 -!- masm [~masm@bl18-43-68.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:13:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 16:19:49 -!- rapacity [~rapacity@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:07 -!- civodul [~user@193.50.110.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:44 rapacity [~rapacity@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #scheme 16:28:39 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-48-88.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 16:28:59 Gmind1 [~Deulamco@113.190.196.89] has joined #scheme 16:30:04 masm [~masm@bl18-43-68.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 16:30:08 -!- Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.196.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:32:57 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:34:33 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:38:05 samth_away: do you happen to know what chicken flags were used to run the benchmarks whose results are http://www.mail-archive.com/users@racket-lang.org/msg14717.html ? 16:38:53 -!- confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:40:31 confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #scheme 16:41:27 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-149-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: What happened to Systems A through E?] 16:44:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:47 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:47:54 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:49:59 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-48-88.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 16:50:58 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:53:29 wingo [~wingo@90.163.81.26] has joined #scheme 16:56:48 jaaso [~jaaso@178.239.26.136] has joined #scheme 16:58:32 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@77.221.24.15] has joined #scheme 17:08:57 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #scheme 17:09:16 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:10:14 peterhil- [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #scheme 17:10:21 -!- peterhil- [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:48 peterhil- [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #scheme 17:16:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:18:21 johnuk [~chatzilla@175.156.174.83] has joined #scheme 17:18:24 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:18:26 Hi guys 17:19:03 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:19:08 Has anyone read the book "The Reasoned Schemer" ? 17:19:25 Would you recommend it to learn Logic Programming? 17:19:54 -!- ijp [~user@host31-52-23-158.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:20:39 *ski* has sadly not read it 17:22:30 i would suggest that you learn some Prolog (not necessary to the exclusion of that book) -- if not for any other reason, then because most resources on LP is on Prolog or Prolog-based systems 17:24:34 bipt [~bpt@cpe-173-095-170-102.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:24:54 Hmm ok 17:25:15 -!- masm [~masm@bl18-43-68.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:25:23 (but you could also take a look at Oz (see the book CTM),Mercury,Curry (functional-logical), and perhaps also constraint logic systems (present in Prolog systems (e.g. ECLiPSe), and the two former at least)) 17:26:04 (there is also a ##prolog channel here) 17:26:25 masm [~masm@188.83.43.68] has joined #scheme 17:29:15 ijp [~user@host86-143-195-44.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 17:29:51 jrslepak [~jrslepak@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 17:30:08 -!- wingo [~wingo@90.163.81.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:33:32 johnuk, reasoned schemer was a nice take on logic programming, and kanren is open source so you can have a look at it with or without the book 17:34:32 PAIP also has a prolog->lisp compiler 17:35:20 -!- astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-247-103.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:35:29 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme 17:36:36 ski aoh: Alright Thanks 17:36:53 yw 17:52:04 -!- jaaso [~jaaso@178.239.26.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:52:39 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #scheme 17:54:46 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:24 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 17:59:48 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-111.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 18:03:18 snorble_ [~snorble@213.101.209.229] has joined #scheme 18:09:39 hypnocat [~hypnocat@unaffiliated/hypnocat] has joined #scheme 18:18:32 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 18:20:01 -!- b4283 [~b4283@1-172-86-95.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:07 mmc [~michal@178.85.56.58] has joined #scheme 18:51:57 `fogus [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has joined #scheme 18:54:24 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD600CC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:55:33 agent-p [~smuxi@s3941.dyn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #scheme 18:55:59 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-78-82-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:56:50 hey 18:56:51 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 18:58:49 *ski* peers quizzingly at agent-p 18:59:23 yow Ski ;) 18:59:58 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:00:22 rudybot: any advice for our new cult member ? 19:00:24 ski: well... he does have certain signature "bits" in his movies which make him more of a cult director... 19:00:34 I have a question about Scheme "Racket" .. I want a PDF file that explains all about lists in "Racket" ! Can anyone help me .. 19:00:54 I tried to find and searched in google .. 19:01:02 But I need it in a French Version ! 19:02:31 hm .. those seem pretty harsh conditions 19:02:59 mayhaps pjb-v could help you 19:03:04 In German maybe ? 19:03:14 you could also try asking in #racket 19:03:40 i was going to suggest , but that's english (and no pdf) 19:04:31 Thanks Anyway Ski ... Actually it was the first thing i've found when I used Google 19:04:33 agent-p : if you stay awhile (in here, and possibly also in #racket), perhaps someone who can help you more notices your question 19:04:45 I'm here ;) 19:04:55 for the moment, yes :) 19:04:59 And I'm staying ;) 19:06:08 (but some people, i'm not saying you, seems to think that if they don't get a suitable answer in five minutes, they won't get it at all, quitting so that helpful people who might have been able to answer later can't) 19:07:47 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 19:07:47 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 19:08:14 I know what you mean .. I've been using IRC servers for years, chatting, asking and etc so I know that I will get my answer .. I just have to wait for it ;) 19:09:31 in that case, please feel at home :) 19:09:41 Thanks ski :) 19:10:50 Blkt [~user@62.10.10.99] has joined #scheme 19:12:15 tupi [~david@139.82.89.157] has joined #scheme 19:13:21 good evening everyone 19:13:36 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 19:13:40 Good Evening Blkt ;) 19:13:46 :D 19:14:25 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme 19:16:35 -!- tali713 [~user@76.17.236.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:37 tali713` [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:19:40 -!- tali713` is now known as tali713 19:21:27 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:56 What's the difference between let and define? 19:24:12 define creates a new name in the scope that the (define ...) appears at, visible to its sibling expressions 19:24:20 `let' binds variables in a local scope, contained inside the `let' form 19:24:23 let creates a new scope inside itself, where the new names are visible 19:24:48 `define' binds a variable in a scope in which the `define' form is contained 19:26:35 rudybot: eval (define amicable-pair (list 220 284)) 19:26:35 ski: Done. 19:27:27 rudybot: eval (let ((n (* 10 11))) (define (double x) (+ x x)) (member? (double-n) amicable-pair)) 19:27:27 ski: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: member? in module: 'program 19:28:19 rudybot: eval (let ((n (* 10 11))) (define (double x) (+ x x)) (member (double n) amicable-pair)) ; oh, right 19:28:19 ski: ; Value: (220 284) 19:29:23 *jaimef* hunts for a json parsing example 19:29:53 rudybot: eval (let ((n (* 10 11))) (define (double x) (+ x x)) (member (double n) (reverse amicable-pair))) 19:29:53 ski: ; Value: (220) 19:30:23 (`member' yields the tail starting with the given element) 19:30:54 the first `define' binds `amicable-pair' in a "global / top-level" scope 19:31:25 the `let' binds `n' in the scope consisting of `(define (double x) (+ x x)) (member (double n) amicable-pair)' 19:32:13 the inner `define' there binds `double' in the scope the definition occurs in .. in this case it's inside the `let', so `double' doesn't escape the `let' here 19:32:35 (the inner define also binds `x' in the body `(+ x x)') 19:33:16 hiptobecubic : ok ? 19:33:42 ski, no one highlighted me so i didn't see the replies :) let me read 19:34:00 (well .. i just did :) 19:34:31 ok 19:34:38 Yes i get it thanks guys 19:35:44 .. it also happens that with `define' on top-level, you can use a new `define' to replace the old definition -- however this is mostly intended for debugging purposes 19:44:24 uselpa [~uselpa@83.99.17.8] has joined #scheme 19:44:44 Are there test cases written for Scheme compilers? 19:45:01 i.e. pass these test cases to produce correct output and you meet the definition of Scheme 19:45:50 not as such 19:45:51 Coming up with the test cases for all significant requirements seems like, well, much of the work that would go into a Scheme compiler. 19:47:28 And it would spot a lot of the trivial errors that simply might not ever come up in one's own coding style. E.g. (cadaar) is required in r7rs but is not in chibi-scheme 19:48:24 *ski* . o O ( "R5RS Pitfalls" ) 19:48:27 the scheme standard is mainly a loose guideline anyway 19:48:41 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:48:51 ski: Yes, almost like that. 19:49:32 Aethaeryn: I believe there is a large R6RS test suite. 19:49:49 perhaps jcowan knows of any equivalent for R6RS or R7RS 19:49:58 Aethaeryn: https://github.com/plt/racket/tree/master/collects/tests/r6rs/ 19:50:02 asumu: Too bad no one used r6rs, thus prompting r7rs. 19:50:12 -!- masm [~masm@188.83.43.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:50:26 *ijp* uses r6rs 19:50:30 some implementations did R6RS 19:50:34 I'm not interested in that debate, but there you go. 19:50:36 ijp: I didn't mean literally no one. 19:51:18 Aethaeryn: no-one uses r5rs either for that matter 19:52:10 asumu: I didn't mean to prompt debate. Maybe r6rs is the most awesome thing ever. I just meant to say that it's no longer the latest, and hence those test cases aren't useful for the latest. 19:52:42 It is the latest until R7RS is ratified. I don't know if R7 has a test suite, but maybe Chibi has some? 19:53:01 anyway, your best bet is adapting someone elses 19:53:25 masm [~masm@bl18-43-68.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 19:53:51 asumu: I'm not sure. I've been using the r7rs draft as a manual to chibi-scheme since the chibi-scheme documentation was a dead link. It's not quite r7rs, as I've learned the hard way a few times. 19:56:52 Unfortunately, portable Scheme code is very difficult to write. I'll probably have to ditch chibi-scheme once I get it complete enough to be able to compile the compiler program from the compiler draft itself. 19:56:53 Aethaeryn: To get e.g. cadaar: (import (scheme base) (scheme cxr)) 19:57:19 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-12-121.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:57:25 metasyntax: Ah. That doesn't follow r7rs draft, though, since it puts that under (scheme base) 19:57:42 metasyntax: Is the documentation available somewhere? 19:58:14 Ah, interesting, the link from the Google Code page works now. http://synthcode.com/scheme/chibi/ 19:58:22 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:25 hiroaki [~hiroaki@77.20.78.82] has joined #scheme 19:58:34 Aethaeryn: I found that just by going through the source code, but R7RS WG1 Draft 7 does note that the c___r procedures are part of the cxr library. 19:58:57 Page 42, as it were in Draft 7. 19:58:57 they should have just got rid of them anyway... 19:59:02 tali713 [~user@76.17.236.129] has joined #scheme 19:59:23 metasyntax: Ah. I've noticed contradictions before. I think I reported one in here months ago. 19:59:34 -!- hiptobecubic [~john@unaffiliated/hiptobecubic] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:59:39 ijp: Tradition/legacy. It makes it hard to git rid of anything. 20:00:33 metasyntax: Is there a generic ->string that functions similar to (display) but converts to string instead of print? i.e. doesn't require knowing the type ahead of time 20:00:56 Could be a contradiction somewhere... I don't see it, but I've yet to read the whole thing (silly work, burning me out and making me play Dark Souls when I get home instead of programming like a good little hacker). :P 20:00:58 legacy? who cares. I'd conjecture that little legacy code obeys the standard anyway 20:01:01 I find myself wanting this generic ->string when I do recursive string-manipulation with (string-append) 20:01:31 since little non-legacy code does 20:01:43 metasyntax: Well, I think the problem is that the Appendix A on page 68 in the latest draft (6?) hasn't been updated to reflect changes in the body. 20:02:00 So the libraries as listed there may not match the actual descriptions in the standard itself. 20:02:35 Aethaeryn: looks good in draft 7, which is hot off the presses. 20:02:45 Ah. 20:03:24 metasyntax: Link? http://www.scheme-reports.org/ still links to draft 6 on the home page 20:03:34 http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/attachment/wiki/WikiStart/r7rs-draft-7.pdf 20:03:58 mayhap it's not officially official yet :-) 20:04:02 cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-110-123.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 20:04:03 Wow. 20:04:09 Well, there's the problem with relying on a draft. 20:04:33 Yes, appendix A is very different here. 20:04:44 And scheme-base is more logical 20:05:46 -!- uselpa [~uselpa@83.99.17.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:13 -!- ghast [~user@host218.190-138-30.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:08:38 Is there a list of changes between the drafts ? 20:11:16 Aune [~Arne@109.228.152.28] has joined #scheme 20:13:51 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 20:14:13 taylanub: Not sure if there's a nicely readable listing, but there's ballot results on Trac (http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/), and the documents are in a Mercurial repository (http://abrek.synthcode.com/hg/r7rs-wg1) if you really want to go into that level of detail. 20:18:44 Hmm, well, if the Appendix A has been updated and that's reflected in chibi-scheme, then the only real incompatability with the base r7rs between chibi-scheme and the scheme I am writing will be the library system. 20:22:06 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 20:27:46 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 20:28:12 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:35:23 -!- johnuk [~chatzilla@175.156.174.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:38:29 civodul [~user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has joined #scheme 20:47:27 hiptobecubic [~john@unaffiliated/hiptobecubic] has joined #scheme 20:50:52 -!- Gmind1 [~Deulamco@113.190.196.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:55:17 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-173-095-170-102.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:00:20 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 21:02:15 Holy chao, why have I never heard of `syntactic-closures' macros until now ? 21:14:28 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #scheme 21:14:57 what are the semantics of ' really? 21:15:01 and does it have an inverse? 21:15:09 hiptobecubic: 'foo = (quote foo) 21:15:25 '(foo bar) = (quote (foo bar)) etc. 21:15:32 ok 21:15:40 is there unquote? 21:15:47 It returns s-expression data. 21:15:58 What would its "inverse" be ? 21:16:20 `eval' maybe. 21:16:28 well if I, for example, (define expr '(and #t (or #t #f))) 21:16:46 now i have expr as an s-expression 21:17:07 eval isn't actually in scheme though is it? 21:17:19 It is, but see. 21:17:32 hiptobecubic: quasiquote has an unquote, which is an "inverse" in a sense. 21:17:32 see? 21:17:34 It expects a second "environment" argument. 21:18:30 (See as in see its documentation.) 21:19:02 Usually eval is a bad idea to use, unless you really know what you're doing. 21:20:15 Good Night guys ;) 21:20:18 -!- agent-p [~smuxi@s3941.dyn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:00 s/guys/people/ maybe .. 21:26:52 eval is slightly nicer to use in r6rs/r7rs, since it is easier to create custom environments 21:35:33 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@77.20.78.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:38:02 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-48-88.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 21:40:17 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-111.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:33 -!- adiii [~adityavit@76.117.52.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:46:48 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:48:16 -!- BossKonaSegwaY1 [~Michael@cpe-75-187-42-68.columbus.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 21:51:06 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #scheme 21:53:22 adiii [~adityavit@76.117.52.187] has joined #scheme 21:58:07 mario-goulart: https://github.com/plt/racket/blob/master/collects/tests/racket/benchmarks/common/mk-chicken.rktl 21:58:14 http://tinyurl.com/ba64yhs 21:58:14 -!- ijp [~user@host86-143-195-44.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:24 (I assume.) 22:08:59 ijp [~user@host31-53-169-133.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 22:11:14 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:22:49 -!- peterhil- [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:25:20 stamourv: thank you. 22:27:12 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 22:27:23 I'd sugest adding -d0 to those arguments. 22:27:59 suggest* 22:28:13 What does it do? 22:29:06 Without it, the compiler adds some overhead for maintaining the call-trace buffer. 22:29:26 Ok, but everything is still safe, right? 22:29:35 Yes. 22:29:40 (IIRC, we don't allow unsafe benchmark versions.) 22:29:50 Great, added to my to-do list! 22:29:54 Except that the error messages won't be very good. :-) 22:29:55 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-154-130.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:30:11 These benchmarks have had 25+ years to be debugged. 22:30:14 But it is safe, yes. 22:30:22 Seriously, look at the timestamps in these files. 22:30:25 Ouch. 22:32:52 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 22:33:11 pxp [~pxp@72.185.225.68] has joined #scheme 22:34:10 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:08 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:36:35 -!- amgarching [~matveev@2001:4ca0:2608:0:4d9f:45f3:97bc:585] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:44 -!- jrslepak_neu [~jrslepak@punchout.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:05 jrslepak_neu [~jrslepak@punchout.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 22:44:42 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:51:04 amgarching [~amgarchin@p4FD600CC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:51:06 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD600CC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:55:38 -!- civodul [~user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:58:58 -!- hiptobecubic [~john@unaffiliated/hiptobecubic] has left #scheme 23:04:44 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 23:10:26 samth [~samth@dhcp107-16-155-211.hil-sdgodt.snd.wayport.net] has joined #scheme 23:10:26 -!- samth [~samth@dhcp107-16-155-211.hil-sdgodt.snd.wayport.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:10:26 samth [~samth@racket/samth] has joined #scheme 23:12:09 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:19:48 -!- cky [~cky@fsf/member/cky] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:24:09 cky [~cky@fsf/member/cky] has joined #scheme 23:24:52 -!- wossname [~user@66.199.39.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:56 -!- Blkt [~user@62.10.10.99] has quit [Quit: good night!] 23:28:07 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: What happened to Systems A through E?] 23:33:58 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 23:34:11 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:34:30 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-12-121.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:38:14 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-48-88.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 23:38:55 -!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has left #scheme 23:39:42 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #scheme 23:46:07 -!- Aune [~Arne@109.228.152.28] has quit [Quit: Lämnar] 23:51:34 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:03 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@77.221.24.15] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:57:28 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep]