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[~arbn@71-87-150-49.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has joined #scheme 06:29:11 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 06:30:38 -!- pdponze [~pierre@37.0.45.21] has quit [Quit: pdponze] 06:33:39 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.29.73] has joined #scheme 06:35:38 alicebob [~b@c-24-14-148-164.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:35:52 what is nil is mit-scheme 06:36:24 i know what 'nil' is used for with lists. but (cons 4 nil) throws in error in mit-scheme. but this is the syntax used in sicp 06:36:45 unbound variable nil 06:37:08 (define nil '()) 06:37:12 alternatively 06:37:17 (define nil (list)) 06:37:42 there isnt a primative nil? 06:37:58 it's spelled : '() 06:38:26 ok, that works 06:38:41 so what is going on in sicp? why do they use (cons 4 nil)? 06:38:44 rudybot: eval (define nil '()) 06:38:45 ski: your sandbox is ready 06:38:45 ski: Done. 06:38:56 rudybot: eval (symbol? nil) 06:38:56 ski: ; Value: #f 06:39:04 ...i dont recall them defining it 06:39:39 at the time the book was written, nil was how it was spelled in MIT-Scheme 06:39:49 oh ok 06:39:55 ski: thanks 06:42:41 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:47:15 -!- phao [phao@177.115.172.181] has quit [Quit: Not Here] 06:56:30 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-68-252.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:01:40 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-209-176.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:16:49 alicebob: that's what you get with a language that has soon 7 revisions of it standard, in the same time Common Lisp has a single standard ever. 07:17:18 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-139-123.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:17:22 But in academia, they're smart enough to adapt to changing standard, and they don't have legacy code. 07:22:11 alicebob: don't listen to pjb, he's just grumpy because the language he prefers is so damn ugly 07:22:24 :P 07:24:28 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:36:06 I have hopes with r7rs, perhaps it'll be a standard that I could use, writing practical programs able to run on several implementations and target platforms. 07:36:46 But I'm also afraid there's no stopping and soon after somebody will start working on a r8rs and a r9rs and so on. So I'm wondering how much of a moving target it'll be, compared to Common Lisp. 07:40:57 I think we need a mini-revolution (standard module system), and after that it will likely revert to minor revisions, plus new libraries. 07:44:12 That would be nice. 07:57:10 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 07:58:29 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:07:03 wingo [~wingo@89.131.176.233] has joined #scheme 08:23:53 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:25:07 -!- Daemmerung [~goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:26:27 Daemmerung [~goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 08:31:13 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:31:47 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 08:33:53 kuribas [~user@94-227-88-230.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 08:34:54 -!- b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:36:42 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:37:06 b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 08:37:40 adiii [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:40:35 pjb: Plus, I snapped up r8rs.org. 08:51:54 qigai [~root@42.227.234.20] has joined #scheme 08:52:10 schemeice-9 08:56:26 scheme ice 08:57:38 who knows the scheme ice-9 Tutorials 09:04:52 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-53-95.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 09:05:49 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-186-72.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:16:11 poindontcare [~user@c-50-131-221-119.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:21:05 -!- qigai [~root@42.227.234.20] has left #scheme 09:36:30 -!- arbn [~arbn@71-87-150-49.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:37:37 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On http://tinyurl.com/8v4byld I dont understand what is (make-prefix-generator prefix). Can any macro guru help me here? 16:08:35 tcleval: that is the syntax pattern 16:09:17 or syntax template 16:09:30 but I mean one and the same thing ;p 16:10:01 or do you need help what it does after that? 16:10:18 pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #scheme 16:10:30 leppie: thax for your help. I am new to macros, and I see that I have to write a lot of code for my image processing that could make use of macro power. 16:10:35 yes I do need 16:10:59 let me tell you what I know, and them what I dont 16:11:08 then* 16:11:13 while not a really complex macro, that one is far from trivial. i would start on simpler examples 16:12:12 I understand, but that macro kind of solve my problem, but I am one of those guys that need to understand the code, and not just use it 16:13:05 (datum->syntax (syntax prefix) (symbol-append pre-sym 'vector-length) append u8 or s8 to vector-length 16:13:27 yes, those are just aliases 16:13:35 (pre-sym (syntax->datum (syntax prefix))) sets pre-sym to the prefix 16:14:33 make/prefix needs one arg (stx) that could be u8, s8, ... 16:14:34 well it gets the name passed, eg u8 s8 16:14:40 yes 16:14:51 then stores it in a value for later 16:15:37 but what I really dont get is (make-prefix-generator prefix) why do I need that on syntax-case? warnning: never used syntax-case before just define-syntax 16:15:40 which it uses in symbol-append, and then converts back to syntax, so it can be used in the macro 16:16:07 it is the same as the clause/rule in syntax-rules 16:16:35 actually I see the confusion 16:17:55 make-prefix-generator and prefix are just pattern variables, but normally _ is used instead of make-prefix-generator. Not sure why it is done like that, as it is never used later (which is about the only reason you want to do that) 16:19:37 also, shorthand syntax notation is not used, so you get (syntax prefix), instead of just #'prefix 16:19:59 -!- mmc1 [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:21:17 leppie: that was nice of you, now I get it. And there is the extra (lambda (stx)) needed because of syntax-case 16:22:03 yes, syntax-rules (if based on syntax-case) does that for you, but hides the procedural 'layer' 16:22:52 leppie: I am going to abuse a little bit and ask you to look this chicken version of the very same macro http://pastebin.com/jFtyjWvT I dont get the first lambda 16:23:44 that is another macro expansion system, like syntax-case is. I think that is rename/compare (????) 16:25:21 tcleval: look at the definition on syntax-rules in terms of syntax-case here http://www.r6rs.org/final/html/r6rs-lib/r6rs-lib-Z-H-13.html#node_sec_12.8 16:25:55 leppie: really strange to me, I prefer the first version as I dont need to worry about quasiquotes 16:26:27 let me see if I have an even nicer version ;p 16:26:37 actually not 16:26:44 tcleval: sounds like what you really want is a module system rather than macros. One that lets you export identifiers with a prefix. 16:26:48 (if I understand what you're doing) 16:28:49 tcleval: here is a similar thing I did not long ago for IronScheme http://paste.lisp.org/display/131734 16:28:57 -!- arpunk2 is now known as arpunk 16:29:35 export as a normal syntax form is awesome ;p 16:30:45 asumu: no, actually I was looking for ways of writing vector, and matrix procedures for different kinds of primitive data (unsigned integers, integers...) I got myself duplicating code a lot, then I looked around and found that you could write macros to avoid duplicating code. I could write some parts using functions that return a lambda, and the duplicated part could be inside that lambda. 16:31:21 casion [~casion@pool-71-100-13-87.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:31:26 tcleval: sounds like a perfectly good use case ;p so mine might help you too 16:31:49 leppie: very nice 16:32:04 mine is more vector orientated, so it might be better ;p 16:33:42 leppie: where is syntax-format defined? 16:34:07 github is down, so hard to view ;p i'll paste 16:35:05 http://paste.lisp.org/display/131734#1 16:35:39 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 16:35:42 thx 16:40:01 -!- lcc [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:40:38 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 16:40:38 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:40:38 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 16:41:40 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-42-68.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined 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seconds] 18:05:11 spionL [~spion@77.28.248.188] has joined #scheme 18:05:26 phao [~phao@187.117.194.16] has joined #scheme 18:05:57 -!- spionL [~spion@77.28.248.188] has left #scheme 18:06:54 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:06 Aune [~Arne@h-152-28.a163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #scheme 18:14:52 -!- icemanack [~user@2001:da8:e000:1a08:bd07:f21a:681a:28] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:50 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:08 -!- copumpkin is now known as john_smith 18:37:29 -!- john_smith is now known as copumpkin 18:37:49 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #scheme 18:38:07 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-57-187.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:40:13 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:41:27 HG` [~HG@wprt-4db6d75d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 18:42:02 -!- HG` [~HG@wprt-4db6d75d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:44:21 -!- sambio [~sam@190.57.227.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:44:26 pjb: that's part of academic policy too. 18:44:52 pjb: without new revisions of standard nobody would buy new books :) 18:45:25 :-) 18:50:51 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:51:37 Anyway, I'm afraid, that with their current approach to FPNs, 18:51:37 Scheme isn't likely to get attraction of numeric people. 18:54:32 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-57-187.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 18:54:45 maybe not physicists, but it should work fine for number theorists 18:56:24 tali713` [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:57:03 Number theorists are not numeric people, they use integers. 18:57:33 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:57:33 -!- kuribas [~user@94-227-88-230.access.telenet.be] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:57:34 -!- jrslepak_neu [~jrslepak@punchout.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:57:34 -!- yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:57:34 -!- djanatyn [~djanatyn@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:57:34 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:57:35 -!- shachaf [~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:57:35 -!- mister_m [~mister_m@li519-220.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:57:35 -!- LeoNerd [~leo@fairy.dictatorshipcake.co.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:58:46 kuribas [~user@94-227-88-230.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 18:58:47 djanatyn [~djanatyn@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 18:58:47 jrslepak_neu [~jrslepak@punchout.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 18:58:47 copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has joined #scheme 18:58:47 shachaf [~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf] has joined #scheme 18:58:47 mister_m [~mister_m@li519-220.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 18:58:47 LeoNerd [~leo@fairy.dictatorshipcake.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:59:15 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 18:59:45 Viaken [~david@projecthq.biz] has joined #scheme 19:00:23 yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 19:01:59 -!- Daemmerung [~goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit [Quit: Smoove out.] 19:02:57 -!- LeoNerd [~leo@fairy.dictatorshipcake.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:04:00 hm... looks like my interpretation of "numeric people" was too broad 19:05:22 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 19:06:06 In fact, there're some really nice features in CL and Scheme that could be attractive, 19:06:16 in particular, non-positional parameters. 19:06:36 OTOH, unboxed arrays is a must. 19:07:53 dmx [~dmx@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:14:53 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:20:12 adiii 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