00:09:03 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
00:10:53 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme
00:11:04 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-60-41.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:13:41 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
00:27:30 -!- confab [~confab@public-nat1.scc.losrios.edu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
00:33:14 -!- masm [~masm@bl18-56-8.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
00:36:17 -!- asumu [~at@2001:470:b:b7:1e6f:65ff:fe23:c3d4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:36:30 asumu [~at@2001:470:b:b7:1e6f:65ff:fe23:c3d4] has joined #scheme
00:37:00 -!- dmx [~dmx@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)]
00:40:31 -!- b4283 [~b4283@114.47.17.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:45:51 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
00:58:53 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-149-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
01:01:04 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme
01:07:23 -!- lcc [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
01:08:03 lcc_ [~lcc@71-222-132-61.albq.qwest.net] has joined #scheme
01:09:57 -!- lcc_ [~lcc@71-222-132-61.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit]
01:10:33 lcc [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme
01:36:13 jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme
01:40:51 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme
01:42:14 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #scheme
01:48:16 b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme
01:54:33 arthurmaciel [~user@201.52.207.96] has joined #scheme
01:55:15 <arthurmaciel> guys, does it make any sense to talk about Scheme and Agile programming? I'm new to this Agile stuff and was wondering if it was worthy studying. Many people around here talk about it.
01:55:52 <gnomon> arthurmaciel, where is "here"?
01:56:17 <ijp> as far as I'm aware, the agile methodology is not specific to anyone language, so I don't see why not
01:56:26 <ijp> *any one*
01:57:42 <gnomon> The agile methodology is more about managing the feature / implementation ticket queue than the actual code, isn't it?
01:58:52 <jcowan> Agile shares common roots with Lisp.
01:59:33 <jcowan> "Start with a blank screen and debug it."
02:02:00 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-60-41.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme
02:02:08 <ijp> I shouldn't have thought there was any bugs on a blank screen
02:02:44 <fds> Well, if the bug is that it doesn't give you the desired output... ;-)
02:03:58 <gnomon> Bug: this implementation does not match the functional specification!
02:04:34 <arthurmaciel> gnomon: sorry, here is Brazil
02:05:05 <arthurmaciel> jcowan: where is that quote from?
02:06:08 phao [phao@189.98.158.180] has joined #scheme
02:06:34 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-60-41.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
02:06:37 <jcowan> It's an XP expression; I'm not sure whose.  But it's also what classical hacking is like.
02:06:41 <jcowan> http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=5342
02:06:49 <jcowan> "Hacking and Refactoring"
02:10:25 <qu1j0t3> arthurmaciel: i think Agile is rather language agnostic.
02:12:43 <sethalves> http://programming-motherfucker.com/
02:12:57 <sethalves>   * read zed shaw rants for entertainment only
02:14:44 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
02:15:28 <jcowan> Yeah.  Why would you buy a book called Learn Python The Hard Way?  If you wanted to learn it the hard way, you'd just read all the documentation.
02:15:34 <qu1j0t3> meh
02:15:43 <qu1j0t3> that's not a terribly hard way to learn python, tbh
02:15:52 *qu1j0t3* sort of learned what he needed to, that way
02:15:56 <hypnocat> what's the easy way?
02:16:17 <qu1j0t3> i'm not sure there is an easy way to learn anything.
02:16:19 <ijp> brain transplant with an existing pythonist
02:16:22 <sethalves> start with @decorators, then hit your head with a hammer
02:16:22 <arthurmaciel> sethalves: thank you so much. That was the funniest thing today.
02:16:34 <ijp> decorators aren't a difficult concept
02:16:34 <qu1j0t3> sethalves: :)
02:16:39 <arthurmaciel> ijp: brain transplant is experimental. trust me.
02:16:42 <sethalves> cool syntax, bro
02:16:45 <jcowan> qu1j0t3: _all_ the documentation.
02:16:45 <qu1j0t3> ijp: no, but the key is step 2
02:16:49 <qu1j0t3> jcowan: meh.
02:16:56 <jcowan> You mean "Step 2: ????"
02:16:57 <qu1j0t3> jcowan: that's the SLOW way.
02:17:17 <jcowan> Well, okay, then.  Learn Python with no access to a computer.
02:17:19 <qu1j0t3> jcowan: hard if you can't read, i guess.
02:17:23 <qu1j0t3> jcowan: WHY.
02:17:26 *jcowan* learned Fortran and PDP-8 assembly language that way.
02:17:34 <qu1j0t3> i learned C that way.
02:17:40 <qu1j0t3> K&R FTW
02:18:24 <jcowan> I wrote a command-line calculator in PDP-8 assembly language one summer during high school, when I had no access to the PDP-8.
02:19:00 <gnomon> jcowan, I would like to take a moment to point out that you are a maniac.
02:19:01 <arthurmaciel> guys, are you trying to scare me the easy way?
02:19:11 <arthurmaciel> gnomon: moment given
02:19:18 <gnomon> arthurmaciel, much obliged.
02:19:53 <jcowan> And when I say wrote, I mean on yellow lined legal pads.
02:20:04 <qu1j0t3> jcowan: :)
02:20:14 <qu1j0t3> jcowan: PAL-III syntax?
02:20:22 <arthurmaciel> ok, guys, I left the mutual help channel five minutes ago, ok? No self-confidence statements are needed anymore.
02:20:24 <jcowan> PAL-8.  Close enough.
02:20:50 <qu1j0t3> jcowan: did you Greenspun in it?
02:20:52 <jcowan> No, this is the "uphill both ways in the ten-foot-deep snow" channel.
02:21:24 <jcowan> No.  Just because the program was verbose didn't actually make it complicated.
02:22:02 <qu1j0t3> jcowan: i see
02:22:21 <arthurmaciel> well, the next question for my trolling day is: what do you think about Arc? Do you love it?
02:22:26 <arthurmaciel> Do you use it for production?
02:22:40 <jcowan> I think "meh", is what I think.
02:22:43 <arthurmaciel> Do you use it in your toaster?
02:22:53 <arthurmaciel> oh, sorry, that's NetBSD.
02:22:54 <ijp> meh is being somewhat charitable imo
02:23:15 <jcowan> gnomon: My wife says "Yes, but you're *my* maniac."
02:23:19 <ijp> since it was hyped up something awful
02:23:40 <arthurmaciel> but seriousloy now, jcowan mentioned verbosity. And one thing I don't understand in Scheme why people are used to define instead of def
02:23:56 <jcowan> Well, exactly.  I'm trying to allow for that deflation.  I mean, Arc was a fearful disappointment, but it's not *so bad*.
02:24:22 <jcowan> Define, ha.  Call-with-current-continuation, now that's more like it.
02:24:38 <sethalves> with-input-from-string
02:24:47 <arthurmaciel> sorry, I'm leaving (lol)
02:25:37 <arthurmaciel> well, at least those need all the words to be understoodable (call/cc is only comprehensible after you know the long version)
02:25:39 <jcowan> datagram-channel-local-address, from my WG2 UDP proposal.
02:25:55 <arthurmaciel> but, def is obvious, isn't it?
02:25:56 <ijp> jcowan: my favourite is make-custom-textual-input/output-port
02:26:21 *jcowan* chuckles.
02:26:56 <jcowan> Which reminds me that I need to put custom ports on the WG2 input docket, even though I personally don't like them.
02:26:57 <ijp> or bytevectorieeesinglenativeset!
02:27:00 <sethalves> arthurmaciel -- maybe you need a nice macro
02:27:06 <gnomon> kThat's what he/she/ver/it/they said.
02:27:12 <gnomon> -1s/^k//
02:29:14 <arthurmaciel> :)
02:29:56 <arthurmaciel> thank you, guys, for the humour and tips. Have a good night.
02:30:29 -!- arthurmaciel [~user@201.52.207.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:31:31 <jcowan> ijp: in my proposal that will be bytevector-f32-set! with a byte offset, or f32vector-set! with an element offset.
02:35:00 Sorella_ [~quildreen@201-58-198-116.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #scheme
02:35:16 <ijp> that's a slightly more sensible name
02:37:18 <Riastradh> Datagram `channel'?
02:38:39 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
02:38:43 <jcowan> A better name is solicited.
02:39:07 <Riastradh> How about `socket'?
02:39:56 <gnomon> If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port / And the bus is interrupted as a very last resort
02:40:14 *ijp* nods approvingly
02:40:26 <gnomon> And the address of the memory makes your floppy scan abort / Then the socket packet pocket has an error to report
02:43:11 <jcowan> Riastradh: That reminds me.  Some years back, you posted that you'd prefer to see a full socket API, but you were rather short on details.
02:44:23 <jcowan> In particular, does that mean that sockaddr, msghdr, linger, and the other structures required by socket programming should be exposed as Scheme objects with setters and getters for their fields?
02:46:08 <Riastradh> sockaddr, yes, except that the byte order botch should be fixed.  linger, no.  msghdr, defer.
02:50:40 <jcowan> It would take a ferociously long time to work out that sort of thing for all 1191 procedures and Ghu knows how many structs.
02:50:52 <sethalves> well, lack of access to all those details is one of the things that keeps me from using scheme at work
02:50:56 <jcowan> Fortunately, WG2 will not be providing a complete Posix binding.
02:51:16 <ijp> sethalves: and it will continue to do so for the long term future
02:51:33 <jcowan> If I were doing it, though, I'd do it systematically, providing exactly what C provides.
02:52:17 <Riastradh> You don't need to do *everything* to do *something* useful.
02:53:35 <sethalves> it's possible to do high-qps networking in scheme, but you've got to put it behind apache2 or ngnix or something
02:53:54 <sethalves> i haven't gotten an all-scheme server to do very well
02:53:54 <Riastradh> 1191 is a gross exaggeration of what you need to do to make something that is useful and fit to be extended later.
02:54:52 <Riastradh> Also, you ABSOLUTELY NEED REAL WORKING CODE, not a committee to write a specification to kindly request that implementors consider setting aside some time to ponder inclusion of the committee's ideas some time in the next few versions of their software.
02:55:06 <ijp> indeed
02:55:44 <jcowan> Fortunately, most Schemes already have real working code in the form of a native Posix interface.
02:55:58 <jcowan> Or an FFI, or both.
02:56:13 <jcowan> But I can't provide RWC for 45 Schemes, either.  Or even ten.
02:56:38 <Riastradh> Real working that is demonstrated to work practically, not merely code that exists and has maybe been run once or twice or even many times in some collection of unit tests.
02:56:46 <sethalves> networking in scheme gets tangled up with the u8vector/bytevector fight
02:57:16 <sethalves> blob
02:58:04 <jcowan> That's just terminology, and it's been settled at least for small Scheme.
02:58:25 <gnomon> The blob!
02:58:27 <ijp> and it was previously settled in r6rs
02:58:28 <gnomon> http://youtu.be/HCtcgI4BcIQ
02:58:38 <ijp> thankfully, no-one read that
02:58:48 <jcowan> Indeed, R7RS adopted "bytevector" at least partly because R6RS did.
02:58:55 <ijp> (jcowan excepted)
02:59:10 <jcowan> And at least six or seven implementors.
03:00:38 <sethalves> the naming is settled, but networking code takes bytevectors or strings, depending on where you are
03:01:05 <sethalves> and if it takes strings, and you send it unicode, who knows what will happen?
03:01:13 <sethalves> someone!  but not me
03:02:10 <jcowan> Oh, I see.  To support WG1 at all, you have to split strings and bytevectors, though you can support any subset of Unicode you like.
03:03:14 <jcowan> Well, not less than ASCII.
03:03:27 <sethalves> it also gets tangled up with threading.  some schemes (bigloo) provide no form of select at all
03:03:43 <sethalves> and those that provide select do so grudgingly, I think
03:05:05 <sethalves> racket with its fearsome events and sync
03:05:09 -!- Inode [~inode@time.uk.chromedpork.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
03:05:33 <jcowan> Select allows event-loop programming; it doesn't require threading in its full evilness.
03:05:59 <sethalves> right, most provide select but hope you'll use threads
03:06:05 <sethalves> bigloo gives you no option
03:06:09 <sethalves> (ffi aside)
03:07:01 <sethalves> what i'm trying to say is: implementing everything C provides might be controversial, in addition to being a lot of work
03:07:22 <ijp> this is scheme, everything and anything is controversial
03:09:20 <jcowan> Oh yes.  But as I say, I don't need that for WG2 purposes.  In practice I will probably need to look very closely at as many Schemes as I can manage and see what their Posix interface looks like.
03:10:34 <sethalves> is your proposal someplace I can see it?
03:12:35 <jcowan> I don't have a proposal yet.
03:12:40 <sethalves> ah
03:13:02 <jcowan> That's what I'm saying: to even get a proposal I need to do a bunch of research to make sure I provide the correct function points.
03:13:13 <sethalves> i see.
03:14:14 <jcowan> In a library-oriented large Scheme, names and parameter order and such don't matter so much: they are trivial to remap if you don't like them.  What matters is getting enough, but not too much, function into each library.
03:15:21 <jcowan> I don't want to duplicate the Smalltalk String class with its 300+ methods.
03:16:11 <sethalves> i fear that anything less than a complete mapping of all the bsd socket structs is going to leave us unable to do some thing
03:17:44 <sethalves> ipv6?
03:18:28 <jcowan> One idea I had was to take the list of system calls on OS X, *BSD, and Linux, union them, and intersect that with Posix.  Then provide a direct but low-level implementation of each such syscall and all its associated structs.
03:18:59 <sethalves> multicast?  srv records?  dynamic dns?
03:19:32 <sethalves> and windows
03:19:52 <jcowan> If not all of it works on Windows, I'm not fussed.  It's a *Posix* interface, after all.
03:20:37 <jcowan> DNS is a library, and given the sockets API, you could write it in Scheme.
03:20:47 <jcowan> I'm not saying this is a *good* idea, just that I had this idea.
03:20:53 <sethalves> heh
03:21:29 <sethalves> i dunno.  i've seen so many attempts to simplify networking
03:21:40 <sethalves> and they all keep you from doing some things that are useful
03:21:41 <Riastradh> s/simplify/cripple/1
03:22:15 <sethalves> i guess if you can write the simple interface on top of the complete one, you win
03:22:57 <foof> jcowan: hato has a pure scheme dns implementation
03:23:06 <jcowan> Ah, good.
03:23:18 <ijp> I've seen at least two others
03:23:21 <jcowan> How about a pure scheme termcap/ncurses implementation?
03:23:36 <Riastradh> `Oops, all networked Scheme programs fail to handle hosts with both A and AAAA records because of the way the ``TCP library'' codified by WG2 works.' is not something you want to hear.
03:24:06 <Riastradh> Does hato just have a stub resolver, or does it do recursion?
03:24:10 <foof> I have basic ncurses for vt100, which is all that matters these days.
03:24:53 <foof> Riastradh: actually I don't remember, it's been ages since I looked at the code :)
03:24:57 <jcowan> Riastradh: Standardizatiuon doesn't codify libraries, it codifies *interfaces* to libraries.
03:25:21 <foof> but the completeness or quality of hato is irrelevant to this discussion
03:28:10 <foof> the concern that WG2 could mis-specify DNS, on the other hand, is valid
03:29:31 <foof> but there are a lot of eyes looking at this from a lot of smart people, and we don't need to specify any of the implementation or low-level details, so I think we can avoid any major mistakes
03:30:08 <ijp> On a side note, how do you intend to convince people to adopt these interfaces?
03:30:55 <foof> they'll vote with their feet - if we provide libraries that are useful and portable, people will use them
03:31:21 <jcowan> In some cases we'll be able to provide actual libraries as sample implementations.  In other cases, not.
03:31:35 <ijp> foof: for pure scheme ones, this is fine, but not all are going to be
03:31:39 <jcowan> Just so.
03:33:01 <foof> most can be done in pure scheme.  things like tcp can be implemented as wrappers around existing native tcp libraries, which are near ubiquitous.
03:33:02 <ijp> and colour me cynical, but I don't believe just putting them out there is going to be sufficient
03:34:55 <jcowan> There will be some lobbying of implementors, just as we've done for WG1.
03:35:09 <foof> perhaps, but when I have time and get a Snow2 server running it will be a lot easier for people to use all of this
03:35:33 <jcowan> And a couple of clients, too.
03:37:21 -!- Sorella_ [~quildreen@201-58-198-116.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)]
03:39:11 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme
03:39:12 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Changing host]
03:39:12 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme
03:39:30 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme
03:39:44 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has left #scheme
03:44:39 <jcowan> I'm of course too close to the situation to know for sure, but I think that the R7RS process has built up a vast amount of credibility.
03:46:02 <ijp> We'll know for sure in a few years time
03:46:46 <jcowan> Glasnost and perestroika can do a lot for you.  They can also work against you, of course.
04:00:53 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:01:12 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme
04:04:37 close-paren [~close-par@c-76-104-189-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
04:06:30 Inode [~inode@time.uk.chromedpork.net] has joined #scheme
04:12:42 -!- hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
04:20:41 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme
04:29:09 -!- jao` [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
04:30:03 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:30:59 -!- jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
05:03:45 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
05:06:30 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has left #scheme
05:10:37 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #scheme
05:10:42 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme
05:12:39 -!- fpqc is now known as BoyLover115
05:12:45 -!- BoyLover115 is now known as fpqc
05:16:53 confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #scheme
05:21:46 cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-64-138.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme
06:01:32 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-60-41.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme
06:06:06 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
06:07:23 preflex_ [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme
06:08:05 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
06:08:07 -!- preflex_ is now known as preflex
06:09:57 -!- covi [~covi@wasp.dreamhost.com] has quit [Quit: leaving]
06:10:59 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-60-41.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
06:17:24 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
06:30:21 Technodrome [~sdfsdf@unaffiliated/technodrome] has joined #scheme
06:30:28 <Technodrome> hey
06:30:37 <Technodrome> i would like to create a web framework in scheme
06:31:02 <ijp> then do it
06:31:19 jewel [~jewel@196-210-160-143.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme
06:32:49 <ijp> unless you'd prefer I talk you out of it?
06:32:51 <Technodrome> i mean i'm trying to figure out the best platform etc to build it on and what way will work best
06:33:11 <Technodrome> ijp: my mind is not that weak!
06:37:15 <ijp> Technodrome: I'm no web app expert, but I'd just use whichever scheme you are working with now
06:37:20 <ijp> or have you never used scheme before?
06:38:27 <Technodrome> ijp: I have never used scheme ever, but i would love to make a web framework in it ..makes no sense right?
06:38:40 <ijp> yes very strange
06:38:41 <Technodrome> if that was true it would make you happy, but it's not
06:38:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
06:39:11 <ijp> If you're looking for recommendations racket or guile 2. Though everyone else will no doubt recommend their favourite to you.
06:45:22 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #scheme
06:45:22 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host]
06:45:22 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme
06:45:33 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme
07:00:15 hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #scheme
07:00:15 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host]
07:00:16 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme
07:00:24 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:02:11 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #scheme
07:04:39 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-160-143.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
07:08:30 -!- drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
07:11:18 drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has joined #scheme
07:14:02 wingo [~wingo@89.131.176.233] has joined #scheme
07:16:16 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
07:47:03 <Technodrome> ijp: I <3 U
07:48:28 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8]
07:54:08 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #scheme
08:06:06 -!- cataska_ [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
08:08:33 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:16:29 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
08:19:00 mmc1 [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme
08:20:19 add^_ [~add^_@m213-101-201-147.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme
08:20:46 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-23-48.dynamic.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme
08:20:57 -!- phao [phao@189.98.158.180] has quit [Quit: Not Here]
08:21:06 phao [phao@189.98.158.180] has joined #scheme
08:21:18 -!- phao [phao@189.98.158.180] has quit [Client Quit]
08:22:08 phao [phao@189.98.158.180] has joined #scheme
08:22:25 -!- phao [phao@189.98.158.180] has quit [Client Quit]
08:22:48 phao [phao@189.98.158.180] has joined #scheme
08:23:29 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme
08:23:44 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8]
08:23:49 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #scheme
08:45:20 Qinix [~qinix@1.202.56.184] has joined #scheme
08:50:54 Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme
08:53:51 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
09:01:46 -!- close-paren [~close-par@c-76-104-189-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: close-paren]
09:03:10 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:03:40 hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #scheme
09:03:41 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host]
09:03:41 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme
09:07:19 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-23-48.dynamic.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme
09:09:23 fschwidom [~fschwidom@46.115.16.172] has joined #scheme
09:10:19 preflex_ [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme
09:11:01 hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #scheme
09:11:47 shardz_ [~samantha@ilo.staticfree.info] has joined #scheme
09:11:49 drdo` [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has joined #scheme
09:16:47 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [*.net *.split]
09:16:47 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-23-48.dynamic.vinet.ba] has quit [*.net *.split]
09:16:48 -!- drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has quit [*.net *.split]
09:16:48 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [*.net *.split]
09:16:48 -!- Nisstyre_ [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [*.net *.split]
09:16:48 -!- shardz [~samantha@ilo.staticfree.info] has quit [*.net *.split]
09:16:49 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo
09:16:57 -!- preflex_ is now known as preflex
09:25:08 Nisstyre_ [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #scheme
09:26:23 -!- Qinix [~qinix@1.202.56.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
09:29:49 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving]
09:30:14 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme
09:44:12 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #scheme
10:08:04 kuribas [~user@d54C43503.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme
10:08:55 <kuribas> Hi, I have a plt program that sends email to a list of addresses, but it aborts when it cannot find the hostname.  How can I catch it and continue?
10:09:46 <kuribas> I use `smtp-send-message`.
10:14:52 -!- Technodrome [~sdfsdf@unaffiliated/technodrome] has left #scheme
10:15:48 <wingo> kuribas: folks in #racket might have better answers
10:16:02 <amoe> What should happen if I try to display a string containing a unicode code point, say "Entit\x00e9;" (r6rs notation), in an ISO-8859-1 locale?  I presume it's unspecified, but at least Racket, Mosh, Ikarus seem to simply output the UTF-8 encoding which mangles it in an 8859-1 locale, is that a bug?
10:16:05 <kuribas> wingo: I see, thanks!
10:17:26 <foof> amoe: printing to a terminal with the locale set to latin-1, it should honor that setting
10:17:45 <foof> I personally think file ports should always default to utf-8 regardless.
10:18:31 <foof> But most Schemes just ignore locales entirely and expect you to use a utf-8 terminal.
10:18:42 <ijp> amoe: if tha character is availalbe in iso-8859-1, I would imagne it either prints it with that encoding, or it printed out the escape sequence
10:18:44 <wingo> for guile, see http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Ports.html
10:18:52 <wingo> ports have encodings and conversion strategies
10:18:59 <wingo> one strategy is to error out
10:19:07 <wingo> if the conversion fails
10:19:16 <wingo> another is to write "?" characters
10:19:17 <wingo> etc
10:19:53 <ijp> well, the latter would only apply to 'write'
10:20:49 masm [~masm@bl18-56-8.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme
10:21:04 <foof> amoe: R6RS also provides port conversions, so you could write your own repl.
10:21:31 <foof> It doesn't provide env variables though, for those you need R7RS.
10:21:49 <ijp> most r6rs implementations provide srfi 98
10:22:36 <amoe> Guile seems to print the escape sequence in that case.  But there's no reason why that conversion would fail, I guess, because U+00E9 is available in ISO-8859-1
10:22:54 *amoe* wonders if he has a misconfigured locale
10:23:44 <ijp> actually to correct that last remark, most r6rs implementations provide access to environment variables, and there is a portable srfi 98 for r6rs that wraps those
10:25:10 -!- b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:25:22 <foof> it's not portable, it just list all the implementations manually :)
10:26:12 <ijp> it's portable in practice, if not ideal
10:27:29 <foof> there's a qualitative difference - if it were truly portable, it would work out of the box on any new R6RS implementation
10:27:55 <ijp> sure
10:28:20 <ijp> but that's still better than 99% of the other libraries out there
10:29:12 <ijp> and this is the typical scheme situation for "portable" libraries
10:31:06 <ijp> one day we'll look back at this and laugh, I hope
10:31:12 <foof> actually, most "portable" scheme libraries are just single-file R5RS (or earlier) blocks of code that you're expected to load
10:32:02 <ijp> yes, and usually after you provide your own hocus pocus to include the srfis necessary for it
10:32:18 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r190-135-24-37.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme
10:32:22 <ijp> or uncomment out the appropriate implementation specific part like in pstk
10:32:35 <foof> followed by collections of portability libraries like snow and common-scheme that basically do what the R6RS libraries do - agree on a few common pieces and conditionally include the rest
10:33:00 <foof> s/portability libraries/portability frameworks
10:36:07 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r190-135-88-15.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
10:43:17 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme
10:46:32 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Client Quit]
10:49:41 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
10:54:05 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
10:56:31 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme
11:03:51 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme
11:11:56 -!- phao [phao@189.98.158.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
11:15:01 phao [phao@189.98.158.180] has joined #scheme
11:16:21 tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.192.154.99] has joined #scheme
11:21:50 phao_ [phao@177.77.164.218] has joined #scheme
11:25:30 -!- phao [phao@189.98.158.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
11:25:46 -!- phao_ [phao@177.77.164.218] has quit [Client Quit]
11:26:02 -!- pepijn_away is now known as pepijndevos
11:27:49 xwl [~user@123.108.223.31] has joined #scheme
11:34:41 phao [phao@177.174.85.156] has joined #scheme
11:51:17 -!- jennifer [~jennifer@unaffiliated/jennifer] has quit [Quit: jennifer]
11:52:01 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
11:53:44 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C43503.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)]
11:54:00 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-125-214.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme
11:54:39 -!- tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.192.154.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
12:03:03 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
12:06:19 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #scheme
12:06:21 tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.202.30.124] has joined #scheme
12:16:04 -!- ijp [~user@host86-128-183-198.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: The garbage collector got me]
12:17:10 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme
12:32:52 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
12:35:20 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:38:53 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme
12:41:45 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:42:51 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme
12:57:53 hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme
13:00:22 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme
13:10:56 -!- Inode [~inode@time.uk.chromedpork.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
13:11:03 Inode [~inode@time.uk.chromedpork.net] has joined #scheme
13:15:43 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:21:41 -!- phao [phao@177.174.85.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
13:24:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
13:30:24 -!- hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
13:31:25 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
13:34:10 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
13:38:21 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme
13:39:05 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-aeb2e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
13:42:59 SHODAN [~shozan@83.226.178.174] has joined #scheme
13:59:19 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
13:59:27 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #scheme
14:01:49 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m213-101-201-147.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_]
14:03:46 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
14:04:41 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.42.135] has joined #scheme
14:14:32 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has left #scheme
14:16:12 -!- pepijndevos is now known as pepijn_away
14:16:43 ijp [~user@host86-128-183-198.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme
14:17:24 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme
14:17:29 -!- pepijn_away is now known as pepijndevos
14:22:12 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:29:36 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #scheme
14:29:36 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host]
14:29:36 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme
14:43:36 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
14:44:34 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #scheme
14:50:30 b4283 [~b4283@114-47-17-19.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme
14:52:27 phao [phao@187.91.227.145] has joined #scheme
14:53:09 -!- fschwidom [~fschwidom@46.115.16.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
14:54:19 hash_table [~quassel@128.249.96.123] has joined #scheme
14:56:17 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme
15:02:57 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
15:03:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.42.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
15:06:05 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-35-137.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit []
15:07:33 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-35-137.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme
15:08:40 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
15:10:11 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-35-137.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Client Quit]
15:11:53 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-35-137.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme
15:12:50 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-125-214.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:13:09 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
15:17:41 fschwidom [~fschwidom@46.115.16.172] has joined #scheme
15:20:56 add^_ [~add^_@m213-101-201-147.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme
15:21:52 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
15:26:06 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
15:27:04 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:27:34 joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has joined #scheme
15:29:10 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme
15:30:05 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme
15:33:17 -!- confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
15:37:21 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme
15:42:11 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme
15:45:01 aloysius21 [~user@99-123-152-51.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme
15:45:26 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m213-101-201-147.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_]
15:47:58 dmx [~dmx@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme
15:50:27 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-149-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: What happened to Systems A through E?]
15:51:38 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-212.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme
16:02:37 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
16:06:10 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
16:07:54 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme
16:08:27 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme
16:18:16 teurastaja [~chatzilla@modemcable168.103-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme
16:18:44 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
16:19:12 <teurastaja> how would one replace side-effects in scheme?
16:19:32 <phao> this is likely to be highly dependent of the operation
16:19:55 <phao> usually, passing the data around, and transforming only the necessary pieces to its "continuation" is a way
16:21:05 <teurastaja> (define list->queue ls) (let ([q (list ls)]) (set-cdr! q (last-pair (car q))) q))
16:21:07 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-60-182.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
16:21:20 <teurastaja> just an example
16:22:29 <phao> that code looks incorrect...
16:22:47 <teurastaja> its incorrect?
16:23:20 <phao> well, didn't you want to have a parenthesis before list->queue ?
16:23:27 <teurastaja> oops
16:23:28 <phao> don't***
16:23:38 <teurastaja> lol yes
16:23:45 <teurastaja> (define (list->queue ls) (let ([q (list ls)]) (set-cdr! q (last-pair (car q))) q))
16:24:24 <phao> but that code doesn't actually changes ls
16:24:26 <teurastaja> is it possible not to use side-effects here?
16:24:27 <phao> change*
16:24:39 -!- tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.202.30.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:24:43 <teurastaja> youre right
16:24:52 <phao> ok.
16:25:16 <phao> let me see what it does
16:25:25 <phao> idk what last-pair do
16:26:04 <phao> ok..
16:26:05 pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #scheme
16:26:22 <phao> so you're returning a list which has as car ls, and as cdr the last pair of ls ?
16:26:30 Qinix [~qinix@1.202.56.184] has joined #scheme
16:26:35 <pjb> teurastaja: there's always a side effect: cons modifies the memory!
16:27:58 <teurastaja> i guess this wouldnt work: (define (list->queue! ls) (cons (list ls (last-pair ls))))
16:28:01 <phao> maybe you could just do (define (list->queue ls) (list ls (last-pair ls)))
16:28:03 <phao> if I understood your code correctly, this should work
16:28:38 <teurastaja> lol
16:28:49 <teurastaja> i made another error
16:28:59 <phao> or not
16:29:11 <phao> supposely, you unerstand what you wanna do better than I do.
16:29:14 <phao> But... who knows.
16:29:51 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has left #scheme
16:30:47 <teurastaja> but last-pair doesnt refer to the last-pair in the car of the result
16:32:24 <phao> it doesn't.
16:32:24 <phao> it refers to the last pair of ls, right?
16:33:58 <teurastaja> not  supposed to
16:34:06 <teurastaja> its a q
16:35:13 <phao> You lost me.
16:35:28 <phao> But anyway... it doesn't seem you need that set in there. You saw that already.
16:35:40 <teurastaja> the cdr is supposed to refer to the last pair of the queue, not the previous list
16:36:16 <teurastaja> ...which is in the car
16:36:43 jrslepak [~jrslepak@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme
16:36:44 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-60-182.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme
16:36:53 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
16:37:02 <phao> I am not really sure what you want, but it really feels like you are trying to build something cyclic.
16:37:07 <phao> usually, as I know how to, cyclic DS are usually build with assignments
16:37:21 <phao> lazy evaluation seems to be an alternative too
16:37:26 -!- noam [~noam@213.57.201.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
16:37:39 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme
16:38:26 -!- Qinix [~qinix@1.202.56.184] has quit [Quit: Bye]
16:43:26 <teurastaja> because i define a rotation like this: (define (rotate! q) (set-cdr! (cdr q) (list (caar q))) (set-cdr! q (cddr q)) (set-car! q (cdar q)))
16:45:50 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-50-131-15-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:46:53 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme
16:49:47 -!- teurastaja [~chatzilla@modemcable168.103-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
16:54:40 ssbr__ [~ssbr@python/site-packages/ssbr] has joined #scheme
16:56:54 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme
16:57:05 -!- ssbr [~ssbr@python/site-packages/ssbr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
16:58:18 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:59:27 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:59:28 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme
17:00:34 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #scheme
17:05:25 realitygrill [~realitygr@ool-18ba55c0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme
17:05:45 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@ool-18ba55c0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit]
17:15:36 -!- b4283 [~b4283@114-47-17-19.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:18:16 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:20:53 -!- fschwidom [~fschwidom@46.115.16.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:23:54 -!- mmc1 [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
17:25:47 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme
17:29:49 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme
17:35:46 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD60460.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme
17:41:19 pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #scheme
17:43:49 `fogus [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has joined #scheme
17:47:09 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
17:55:00 choas [~lars@p4FDC5D0A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme
17:58:22 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme
18:01:45 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme
18:03:18 framling [U2FsdGVkX1@ma.sdf.org] has joined #scheme
18:04:08 jfe [~jfe@12.34.212.237] has joined #scheme
18:06:08 -!- jfe [~jfe@12.34.212.237] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:07:01 <framling> Is SICP as relevant and worthwhile now as it once was?
18:09:09 <sethalves> yeah
18:09:13 <C-Keen> short answer: yes, long answer: depends
18:09:23 <phao> likely
18:09:45 <phao> they differ by 4 characters
18:09:49 <phao> =D
18:09:53 <penryu> try it and see.
18:12:10 <framling> Will do!
18:12:54 <pjb> framling: depends on what you want to become.
18:13:18 <pjb> framling: for the general public, 6.001 turned to python.  For CS/programmers, it is still SICP http://web.mit.edu/alexmv/6.S184/
18:14:01 <penryu> hrm
18:14:02 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-60-41.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme
18:14:06 <penryu> (abs (apply - (map strlen '("yes" "depends"))))
18:14:18 <penryu> I miss scheme sometimes.
18:16:46 fschwidom [~fschwidom@46.115.16.172] has joined #scheme
18:16:49 -!- fschwidom [~fschwidom@46.115.16.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:16:51 <framling> I've always liked the idea of functional programming. Is there a market for Scheme programmers?
18:17:06 <pjb> Yes,
18:17:11 fschwidom [~fschwidom@46.115.16.172] has joined #scheme
18:17:16 <pjb> Small but existing.
18:18:44 <framling> How about other functional languages?
18:19:20 <pjb> I think CL job market is bigger than Scheme.  There are also companies working with Haskell or Erlang.
18:19:34 <pjb> You can probably count them on  your fingers.
18:19:49 <framling> I've heard good things about Haskell.
18:20:03 <framling> I think I'll go through SICP and then try it out after.
18:23:42 <penryu> ocaml claims a portion of the financial market. but again, you'll only need one hand to count them, I'd wager
18:24:55 <qu1j0t3> penryu: Jane Street.
18:25:10 <qu1j0t3> penryu: i've noticed there is considerable diversity in platforms in those areas.
18:25:15 <penryu> qu1j0t3: that would be the one I've heard of.
18:25:22 <qu1j0t3> penryu: it might be the last area where healthy heterogeneity exists...
18:25:39 <qu1j0t3> penryu: pretty much every functional language is represented somewhere.
18:25:43 <qu1j0t3> penryu: including Lisps
18:25:47 <qu1j0t3> penryu: (in that biz)
18:25:58 <`fogus> Clojure is experiencing nice growth ATM
18:26:03 <penryu> not sure how I'd feel about a commerical entity using haskell directly.
18:26:46 <penryu> clojure intrigues me. just need to make the time.
18:27:03 <penryu> ie, "take the time away from haskell"
18:27:20 <`fogus> I feel the same about Haskell. :-)
18:27:37 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:27:53 <penryu> I really enjoy haskell, but I'm just not convinced of it's general utility.
18:28:09 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme
18:28:55 <qu1j0t3> penryu: Scala is also used in financial.
18:29:20 <qu1j0t3> penryu: some high profile scala'ists and authors work in banks. Edward Kmett, Debasish Ghosh, and so on
18:29:29 <penryu> I need to learn scala, if only to effectively weigh in on the F# v. Scala debate
18:29:37 <qu1j0t3> penryu: and they write about using typesafe modelling
18:29:44 <qu1j0t3> penryu: (see also Yaron Minsky / Jane Street)
18:29:48 <qu1j0t3> Yaron recently joined twitter, btw.
18:29:56 <qu1j0t3> or maybe not recently joined, but i only recently noticed
18:30:01 <penryu> yaron?
18:30:04 <`fogus> I work with Scala for ~3 years.  It was a nice experience
18:30:05 <qu1j0t3> i invited him to Quora, not sure if he ever took it up.
18:30:16 <qu1j0t3> penryu: Yaron is the FP evangelist and Ocaml expert at Jane Street. Has blog
18:30:27 <penryu> ahh.
18:30:28 <qu1j0t3> penryu: read his "OCaml for the Masses" article in ACM Queu
18:30:30 <qu1j0t3> +e
18:30:38 <qu1j0t3> `fogus: Cool!
18:30:49 <qu1j0t3> `fogus: i've been using it for six months, it'sbeen a great experience.
18:30:57 <penryu> @yminsky ?
18:31:15 <qu1j0t3> that's him.
18:31:41 <penryu> ah, I've read that.
18:32:03 <penryu> that's probably what cemented by decision to do ML in general.
18:32:30 <penryu> but I was torn between Yaron (and my friend, another ocamler) and my attempts to decipher my xmonad.hs
18:32:34 <DerGuteMoritz> framling: if you can't find a Scheme job there's always http://moritz.twoticketsplease.de/files/guild.png
18:32:52 <penryu> also, someone told me haskell as more difficult. so I chose it.
18:33:40 <framling> http://moritz.twoticketsplease.de/files/guild.png
18:33:48 <framling> Oops, sorry
18:34:07 HG` [~HG@wprt-4db6ec20.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme
18:34:38 <qu1j0t3> penryu: yeah I was about to pick up Ocaml but Quadresce caught me first and directed me to Scheme and Standard ML.
18:36:23 -!- Quadresce is now known as Quadrescence
18:36:41 <Quadrescence> ._.
18:38:57 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:39:42 <qu1j0t3> Quadrescence: <3
18:40:51 <Quadrescence> The barrier to entry to SML has increased a little, with SML/NJ's apparently difficult install process.
18:41:39 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.]
18:42:07 -!- HG` [~HG@wprt-4db6ec20.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:43:58 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #scheme
18:48:38 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
18:54:03 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
18:55:27 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme
18:57:10 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-178-002-095-030.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme
18:59:09 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme
19:02:36 youlysse` [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme
19:03:21 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:04:03 -!- asumu [~at@2001:470:b:b7:1e6f:65ff:fe23:c3d4] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
19:06:17 -!- bfgun is now known as bfig
19:06:24 j`ey [~joey@unaffiliated/jey/x-00002] has joined #scheme
19:06:30 -!- j`ey [~joey@unaffiliated/jey/x-00002] has left #scheme
19:06:45 pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #scheme
19:07:22 -!- aloysius21 [~user@99-123-152-51.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:18:52 untrusted [~user@stgt-5f71a96a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme
19:27:25 -!- fschwidom [~fschwidom@46.115.16.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
19:31:15 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-125-214.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme
19:41:36 -!- hash_table [~quassel@128.249.96.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20:04:11 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-63-36.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme
20:05:12 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20:06:12 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-64-138.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:09:15 -!- phao [phao@187.91.227.145] has quit [Quit: Not Here]
20:10:08 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20:11:09 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme
20:12:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:19:08 -!- pepijndevos is now known as pepijn_away
20:25:17 -!- copumpkin is now known as stickle
20:28:27 -!- stickle is now known as copumpkin
20:30:16 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:34:13 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme
20:35:34 -!- untrusted [~user@stgt-5f71a96a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:36:32 -!- `fogus is now known as `fogus|away
20:37:39 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20:39:51 -!- copumpkin is now known as orifice
20:43:43 -!- orifice is now known as copumpkin
20:44:11 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.]
20:46:26 hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme
20:46:37 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-178-002-095-030.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
20:47:00 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-178-002-095-030.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme
20:47:01 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #scheme
20:49:51 kuribas [~user@d54C43503.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme
20:51:03 confab [~confab@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has joined #scheme
20:51:29 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-178-002-095-030.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20:52:18 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme
20:53:40 -!- dmx [~dmx@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:59:57 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-60-182.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
21:02:02 -!- confab [~confab@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:02:24 confab [~confab@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has joined #scheme
21:03:00 -!- confab [~confab@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has quit [Client Quit]
21:03:19 confab [~confab@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has joined #scheme
21:14:44 -!- confab [~confab@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:15:05 confab [~confab@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has joined #scheme
21:15:10 jlongster [~user@pool-98-117-94-43.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme
21:15:35 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-60-182.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme
21:16:31 -!- confab [~confab@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has quit [Client Quit]
21:16:59 confab [~confab@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has joined #scheme
21:17:53 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme
21:19:55 -!- vmcv_ [~victor@187.67.229.152] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:27:46 -!- langmartin [~user@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
21:28:36 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-63-36.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_]
21:29:49 -!- youlysse` [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:31:21 -!- confab [~confab@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:32:32 -!- choas [~lars@p4FDC5D0A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
21:32:49 -!- wingo [~wingo@89.131.176.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
21:34:43 confab [~confab@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has joined #scheme
21:37:41 -!- confab [~confab@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has quit [Client Quit]
21:38:03 confab [~confab@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has joined #scheme
21:39:56 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: What happened to Systems A through E?]
21:41:24 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
21:48:18 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C43503.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)]
22:00:58 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD60460.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
22:06:33 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
22:09:12 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-149-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
22:21:41 -!- samth is now known as samth_away
22:23:50 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]
22:34:18 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r190-135-29-154.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme
22:37:38 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
22:37:46 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r190-135-24-37.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
22:44:03 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-212.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
22:51:37 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #scheme
22:51:37 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood]
22:53:32 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
23:03:06 tupi [~david@189.119.80.134] has joined #scheme
23:04:18 -!- tupi [~david@189.119.80.134] has quit [Client Quit]
23:13:11 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #scheme
23:18:21 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-60-41.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
23:21:19 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #scheme
23:24:37 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #scheme
23:24:54 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Client Quit]
23:27:08 -!- logger_ [~logger@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
23:35:27 -!- bfgun [~b_fin_g@r190-135-29-154.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:36:19 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme
23:40:33 -!- confab [~confab@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
23:41:11 asumu_ [~at@2001:470:b:b7:1e6f:65ff:fe23:c3d4] has joined #scheme
23:41:41 -!- asumu_ is now known as asumu
23:41:43 logger_ [~logger@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme
23:41:48 -!- asumu [~at@2001:470:b:b7:1e6f:65ff:fe23:c3d4] has quit [Changing host]
23:41:48 asumu [~at@racket/asumu] has joined #scheme
23:46:41 -!- logger_ [~logger@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
23:48:26 githogori [~githogori@c-50-131-15-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
23:51:42 logger_ [~logger@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #scheme