00:02:02 phao [phao@177.77.154.171] has joined #scheme 00:02:16 bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-48-196-161.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 00:03:37 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #scheme 00:03:38 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:06:52 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #scheme 00:15:31 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:20:47 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #scheme 00:26:12 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 00:29:28 -!- keenbug [~daniel@p4FE39639.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:33:15 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:40:34 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 00:44:56 Sorella_ [~quildreen@201-58-253-28.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #scheme 00:48:39 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:54:37 jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 00:59:03 thinking about it, #t is #f upside down 01:01:27   01:07:34 hoi 01:08:19 And AND is OR upside down, too. 01:09:15 ente: WOW 01:09:34 ente: (= 'mind 'blown) 01:10:31 We could add # and # as optional representations. 01:10:52 F# is not the same as #f :P 01:11:23 No, but #F is the same as #f 01:11:42 #t 01:13:21 -!- wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:39 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD61B0A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:23:10 *jcowan* notes that Gambit doesn't like #T or #F 01:24:22 are #T and #F special? 01:24:43 (because after all, scheme isn't case-insensitive, right?0 01:24:51 close-paren [~close-par@c-76-104-189-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:28:31 It depends. R5RS and earlier versions are case-insensitive, but many implementations deviate from the standard in this respect. R6RS and R7RS are case-sensitive. However, booleans and inexact numbers are case-insensitive in all standards. 01:28:40 hive-min1 [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 01:28:48 See http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/CaseInsensitivity for details 01:29:47 -!- hive-mind [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:41:34 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 01:43:54 cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-143-136.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 01:46:25 jcowan: #x41 thru #x5b are dead to me 01:48:29 close-paren: Wevs 01:49:02 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-48-196-161.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:49:28 githogori [~githogori@c-50-131-15-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:55:34 -!- Sorella_ [~quildreen@201-58-253-28.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 01:56:32 jcowan: wevs? 01:56:46 Slang for "whatever". 01:56:52 as in "what-EV-er" 01:56:59 as in "this interests me, why?" 01:58:20 *close-paren* hides in shame 01:59:55 -!- phao [phao@177.77.154.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:00:18 b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 02:00:42 hive-mind [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 02:01:27 -!- hive-min1 [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:04:42 phao [phao@187.117.219.251] has joined #scheme 02:05:27 bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-49-6-113.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 02:06:26 wow BURN 02:24:22 Personally I'm fond of capital Letters, in Moderation. 02:27:16 -!- turbofail [~user@38.99.37.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:28:34 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 02:35:54 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-219-162.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:53:57 -!- andyjpb [~andyjpb@253.75.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:53:58 close-paren` [~close-par@c-76-104-189-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:04:49 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:05:27 -!- yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:07:32 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:07:41 foof` [~user@li126-140.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 03:08:17 -!- foof [~user@li126-140.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:58 yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 03:09:08 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #scheme 03:09:08 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:13:04 -!- foof` is now known as foof 03:18:09 permagreen [~donovan@204-195-27-175.wavecable.com] has joined #scheme 03:34:50 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 03:35:11 I like capital letters pretty much anyWhere. 03:36:41 EvErYonE knows thAt engLisH is mOre ReadaBle lIkE this 03:40:06 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #scheme 03:41:28 StUdLyCaPs 03:41:40 indeed 03:43:39 -!- yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:46:14 yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 03:48:37 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #scheme 03:48:37 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:53:41 preflex_ [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 03:54:08 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #scheme 03:54:08 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:55:33 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:55:41 -!- preflex_ is now known as preflex 03:57:26 My favorite capitol letters are D and C 03:59:33 levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:00:12   04:00:39 my eyes just got very confused looking at those 04:01:00  04:08:37 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #scheme 04:08:37 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:18:08 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #scheme 04:18:08 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:25:11 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #scheme 04:26:10 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:31:29 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:33:51 -!- close-paren` [~close-par@c-76-104-189-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: close-paren`] 04:37:05 -!- ijp [~user@host86-182-156-79.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:37:31 -!- jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:47:24 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 05:03:13 RageOfThou 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[~b4283@114-47-19-2.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 12:00:29 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:00:30 eni_ [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #scheme 12:03:05 ventonegro [~alex@cust.static.46-14-234-161.swisscomdata.ch] has joined #scheme 12:09:06 -!- keenbug [~daniel@p4FE392CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:20:13 bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-54-227-29.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 12:28:52 -!- phao [phao@177.146.187.219] has quit [Quit: Not Here] 12:39:58 jao [~user@164.Red-83-32-68.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 12:40:05 -!- jao [~user@164.Red-83-32-68.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:40:06 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 12:41:57 superjudge [~superjudg@37-46-176-67.customers.ownit.se] has joined #scheme 12:43:48 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-229-92.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 12:48:21 Curious: Has anyone noticed that after programming in Clojure, the absence of map and (perhaps) set literals in Scheme makes the language feel decrepit? Can we agree that sets and maps are fundamental data structures that deserve sugary syntax? 12:55:34 -!- tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.192.129.16] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:44 or just use clojure? was there something you missed in clojure? 12:58:33 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #scheme 12:59:48 -!- pepijn_away is now known as pepijndevos 13:00:05 qu1j0t3: Clojure is not Scheme. I am a Schemer living in the real world, and to the extent that it's possible, I would like Scheme to join me. 13:00:12 realitygrill [~realitygr@ool-18ba55c0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 13:01:41 -!- Razz [~tim@kompiler.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:03:00 edw: i am not sure that you'll get that far in the committee framework. perhaps invent a Scheme-II, ReScheme, etc 13:04:52 I couldn't get through all of Richard Gabriel's most recent paper--he should perhaps consider that we don't feel the same joy _reading_ his musings that he evidently takes in _writing_ them--but the gist of the part I read, that the researcher-lunatics have taken over the asylum, seems to be the case in the Scheme world. 13:05:37 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-26-82.dynamic.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 13:05:46 A mapping is a concept that deserves first-class syntactic status. 13:05:49 edw: code talks 13:06:14 I would ask this: How did Clojure get started? 13:08:43 qu1j0t3: Have you considered changing your name to 7r011b0t? 13:09:12 edw: i would like functional map and set literals 13:09:15 i think racket has them 13:14:51 Razz [~tim@kompiler.org] has joined #scheme 13:14:52 My thoughts are being shaped by a system I'm building that uses string representations of Clojure data structures a la JSON in Redis. Clojure's very rich (ah, not pun intended) literals make a big difference when using data structures to transmit meaning from one component to another. 13:15:26 Razz__ [~tim@kompiler.org] has joined #scheme 13:15:43 -!- crundar [~Jason@99-108-224-199.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:16:54 They make JSON seem primitive: being able to distinguish between lists, vectors, strings, keywords, symbols, sets, and maps makes the format a joy to use. I had a weekend project to write a Clojure reader in Scheme last year, but if fell behind the horizon. 13:17:21 A writer would be useful too, obviously. 13:18:15 And it's a short step from there to writing Scheme in clj-exprs. 13:18:47 FWIW, I made a fairly complete Clojure reader for Chicken https://gitorious.org/chicken-eggs/sexpressive/commits/clojure 13:18:53 -!- Razz [~tim@kompiler.org] has quit [Client Quit] 13:18:53 -!- Razz__ [~tim@kompiler.org] has quit [Client Quit] 13:18:58 I think only set literals are missing or something 13:19:01 tim_ [~tim@kompiler.org] has joined #scheme 13:19:06 -!- tim_ is now known as Razz 13:20:37 phao [phao@177.174.183.121] has joined #scheme 13:20:55 DerGuteMoritz: Cool. 13:21:01 *edw* checks it out 13:21:49 it's used by my puny and incomplete attempt to implement Clojure in Scheme: https://bitbucket.org/DerGuteMoritz/chicken-clojure 13:22:20 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-149-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: What happened to Systems A through E?] 13:23:07 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:24:19 Reading your commit comments, I'm wondering if a near-mechanical translation of the Clojure reader might be the most reliable way to fully implement the reader, though the reader is probably so full of idiomatic Clojure that perhaps implementing a set of macros to support... OK, I AM GOING OFF THE DEEP END HERE. 13:24:26 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-149-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:26:56 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #scheme 13:27:52 The Clojure 1.4 reader is quite interesting: http://www.infoq.com/interviews/hickey-clojure-reader 13:28:48 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-149-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:29:47 edw: the clojure reader is mostly implemented in Java 13:30:35 Damn. The CLJS reader then... 13:30:47 heh yeah that might work 13:32:56 It's aggravating. 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joined #scheme 22:27:36 I wish that there was a generic cpan for scheme, regardless of implementation. 22:28:49 that would rely on schemers writing portable code 22:29:23 I guess cpan is possible in perl because of the number of implementations. 22:29:37 dorodango should work for most r6rs implementations 22:29:42 Afaik, most people use the same implementation of perl, no? 22:29:55 yeah 22:30:29 packages for generic scheme can only do so much... 22:31:20 you can write wrappers to cover up the specifics, but the more implementations you support the harder this is 22:31:41 I'd say it is unlikely 22:32:30 Anything significant I/O related is out, afaik. 22:32:42 phao: in r5rs yes, in r6rs no 22:32:57 that's better then. 22:32:59 it's unfortunate that certain people seem to think scheme should be designed to be half implemented over the weekend 22:33:33 Yeah, different implementations have different ways of doing things, so even if the language looks the same, the precise behaviour may not be. 22:34:25 afaik, charset stuff is also left out the specs... I'd guess that lots of string-related stuff can't be done in a stadard way then 22:34:36 phao: again, an r5rs issue 22:35:25 lcc, maybe you can do something like that for r6rs then =) 22:35:50 (see dorodango note above) 22:35:59 I still would think that the standard is not precise enough to make something useful that works on all implementations. 22:36:13 But I never read r6rs... only r5rs 22:36:17 you could read it and make an informed decision 22:36:36 nahh... 22:36:40 doesn't look worth it. 22:36:41 of course, the whole point of r7rs is to save scheme from making hard decisions that would lead to portable code 22:37:18 Even the 50pgs of r5rs looked like a waste of time... Reading language standards is not currently very useful to me. 22:37:53 ijp, maybe people who use scheme like this sort of "It has a 50pgs spec! It's really small!" 22:39:09 the funny thing is, that even at 50 pages, people still manage to not implement all of it 22:39:36 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: What happened to Systems A through E?] 22:40:09 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 22:40:17 Bah, the original Lisp paper was only 34 pages! And people have still spent over 50 figuring out how to implement that properly 22:42:56 ijp =) 22:53:06 lcc, another question... 22:53:14 Why do you "worry" about this? 22:53:31 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:53:31 It's usually that there is no harm in sticking with one implementation. Afaik. 22:55:03 hm... I just like the idea of being able to reusue scheme code with multiple implementations. just pondering. 22:55:42 Hmm, what about the SRFI? 22:56:11 phao: only 3 srfis could be described as ubiquitous 22:56:23 ijp, hmm, sad 22:57:28 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@66-168-47-170.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 23:06:45 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:11:43 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-60-41.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:21:31 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:26:28 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #scheme 23:31:39 -!- ijp [~user@host86-169-200-68.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ciao] 23:39:24 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-125-214.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 23:44:50 -!- dmx [~dmx@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:44:55 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:33 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:48:27 -!- crundar [~Jason@99-108-224-199.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:54:01 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 23:55:00 yoklov [~yoklov@66-168-47-170.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #scheme 23:55:49 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 23:59:56 -!- Guest3838 [~klutometi@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Changing host] 23:59:56 Guest3838 [~klutometi@pdpc/supporter/professional/klutometis] has joined #scheme