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02:43:41 lol, scheme library 02:43:46 assuming they were call/cc safe, of course 02:43:58 :-p 02:44:31 close-paren: I guess that depends on what you mean by "work transparently" 02:45:54 assume a null set, then see how far we can go 02:46:11 eg map 02:46:37 map is call/cc safe, right? 02:46:50 it doesn't have to be 02:47:24 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 02:48:01 oh, well, assuming a call/cc map, then 02:48:10 I still don't know what it is you are after 02:48:43 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:49:15 gotta go, but I will be back with sample later 02:50:16 little human needs attention :-) 02:52:16 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:53:10 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 02:54:05 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Client Quit] 02:57:45 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 02:58:56 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 03:17:39 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 03:27:15 -!- lifecoder [~dan@194.44.246.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:38:40 close-paren` [~close-par@c-76-104-189-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:46:32 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:48:41 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 03:51:29 jfe_ [~jfe@ool-18bfe75c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 03:51:33 hi all 03:52:29 hey ho 03:55:12 i'm having a hard time understanding how to apply the order of growth concept to tree-recursive algorithms, e.g. a tree-recursive fibonacci algorithm 03:58:40 when measuring space requirements, is it the number of leaves or nodes that are counted? 03:58:48 or both? 03:59:09 Both, I'd say. 03:59:17 same question for the number of "steps" in the computation 03:59:24 "time" 03:59:44 s/"//g 04:03:14 mhr [60fd75c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.253.117.194] has joined #scheme 04:03:41 in recursive algorithms, people often elaborate an recurrence relation 04:04:25 num of steps (ns) of input of size s is = + ns(s/2) 04:04:29 ns(1) = 3 04:04:37 (something like that), and solve the recurrence relation 04:05:04 In Teach Yourself Scheme in Fixnum Days (http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-5.html#node_sec_3.3), it said that there are many scheme forms with implicit begins. What are examples of forms that don't have implicit begins? 04:05:04 http://tinyurl.com/8tcyjco 04:05:12 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 04:05:35 mhr, lambda, afaik, usually do not 04:06:07 it said in the book that "In Scheme, lambda-bodies are implicit begins" 04:06:34 I didn't know that. 04:06:42 Sort of... 04:06:56 `if` has no implicit begins 04:06:58 (lambda () (begin (define x 0) x)) isn't kosher. 04:07:01 I thought people implemented begin with a macro that translated to some lambda expr 04:07:08 That's one way, yes. 04:07:14 phao, no, that doesn't work. 04:07:30 It doesn't work because of the way definitions work. 04:07:43 In particular, ((lambda () (begin (define x 0)) x)) has to work and yield 0. 04:08:05 Expanding that into ((lambda () ((lambda () (define x 0))) x)) doesn't do that. 04:08:10 hmm 04:08:18 nice 04:08:30 Yes, it only works for expression-based begin (which is an expression) 04:08:38 it looks like begin must be built-in then.. 04:08:45 mhr, perhaps a clearer illustration is that COND has implicit BEGINs but IF does not. 04:08:48 phao, yep. 04:08:52 Splicing begin is another matter from expression-only begin. 04:08:55 okay, thanks 04:09:03 COND doesn't allow defines, though. 04:09:24 *jcowan* thinks it was a mistake that expression-only begin and splicing begin have the same keyword. 04:09:53 the splice one looks sort of pointless... 04:10:09 isn't (lambda () (define x 0) x) valid? 04:10:20 Splicing BEGIN is essential for macros. 04:11:04 hmm, ok then. 04:11:36 Off-topic: Does anyone ever use S/MIME with Diffie-Hellman key agreement? Are there even any S/MIME implementations that support it? 04:13:32 ijp: i've got the code from earlier. http://codepad.org/3JQGtVZr -- special-set produces a side effect only in the current continuation - previously and future continuations are unaffected 04:15:37 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-173-81.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:16:20 in http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-6.html it says that (if (< p 90) 'low-pressure) is a valid program. Don't conditionals have to have else branches? 04:16:36 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 04:16:40 No, mhr, but it's a useless program. 04:17:04 mgr - i believe in some scheme's that (if c t) --> (if c t (void)), or thereabouts 04:17:04 In particular, it has no side effects, and the value is not useful. 04:17:21 (It could return the symbol LOW-PRESSURE even if p >= 90.) 04:18:46 Riastradh: huh, i don't think what you said is correct 04:19:44 Riastradh: are you saying the predicate returns true always ? 04:19:55 when I tried it, it didn't return 'low-pressure for some reason 04:20:04 No, b4283, I'm saying that if p >= 90, the IF expression could return anything. 04:20:21 It could return #F, it could return (), it could return 42, it could return the procedure CALL-WITH-CURRENT-CONTINUATION, or it could return the symbol LOW-PRESSURE. 04:21:17 The value of (IF #F ) is unspecified. 04:21:38 close-paren`: you still haven't answered my question from earlier, what does it mean for your proposed special let and set to be transparent? 04:21:47 okay 04:22:15 did I say transparent? 04:22:31 will it work transparently over existing scheme libraries? 04:22:47 oh, i mean that, other than the value of 'y', that the above program should behave as though normal call/cc was in effect 04:23:37 what do you mean "normal call/cc", you've never proposed changing it 04:23:37 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-50-131-15-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:23:47 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:24:17 I'm sure you have a sensible question somewhere in your head, but I'm afraid I'm not privy to all these assumptions you seem to be making 04:24:25 this goes in r6rs: "If test yields #f and no alternate is specified, then the result of the expression is unspecified." 04:24:25 heh, fair enough 04:24:57 if you mean: can I write a let and set!, and other 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21:48:09 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 21:49:30 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m212-152-15-136.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:49:35 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-31-29.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: zzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzz] 21:49:56 -!- spionL [~spion@46.217.23.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:50:29 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:51:14 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 21:54:40 -!- jfe_ [~jfe@ool-18bfe75c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 21:57:23 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #scheme 22:00:27 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:05:56 yoklov [~yoklov@66-168-47-170.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:06:44 phao [phao@177.115.53.195] has joined #scheme 22:11:02 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:20:18 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 22:23:18 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:25:57 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:33:02 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:36:13 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@racket/sstrickl] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 22:46:51 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:48:40 Is there any syntax for composing large expressions that let you use the return value of the last expression in some places in the next expression? 22:48:45 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:48:54 I mean, I usually do a bunch of lets, but a better syntax for it would be helpful. 22:49:10 I mean ((+ a b) => (+ _ c) => (* d _)) 22:49:29 you could write one yourself 22:49:46 Sure... Any ideas on how to? 22:49:53 clojure has -> which is quite nice, though not as general as that 22:50:27 phao: erm, have you never written a macro before? 22:50:42 I have... But I honestly can't think how to write this. 22:51:03 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:51:43 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 22:52:21 I can think of how to do that using stuff like macro facilities which gives me the actuall list structure of the expression. 22:55:52 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 22:56:07 https://gist.github.com/3420134 22:56:23 thanks.. let me see. 22:56:23 that's a quick version piggybacking on the cut macro (srfi 26) 22:57:02 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-26-82.dynamic.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:57:21 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-26-82.dynamic.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 22:57:48 -!- dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:57:55 -!- dzhus [~dzhus@95-24-54-235.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:59:24 That's very strange to me. Lots idk in there. I'll look carefully. 23:01:18 -!- crundar [Jason@2001:18e8:2:28a6:dd65:b4eb:f26e:cc3f] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:01:31 well (cut + <> foo <> bar) == (lambda (temp1 temp2) (+ temp1 foo temp2 bar)) 23:02:24 (compose f g) would be roughly (lambda args (f (apply g args))) 23:03:06 so, I just turn that list of next-forms into functions, then compose them in reverse order 23:04:13 so, (==> (+ a b) (+ <> c) (* d <>)) == ((compose (lambda (x) (* d x)) (lambda (y) (+ y c))) (+ a b)) 23:05:21 which in turn is (let* ((y (+ a b)) (x (+ y c))) (* d x)) 23:05:40 et voila 23:06:47 ok.. 23:06:49 thx =) 23:06:51 gotta go now 23:10:58 -!- phao [phao@177.115.53.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:12:23 andyjpb [~andyjpb@253.75.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #scheme 23:12:35 is #unspecified false or true? 23:12:36 http://api.call-cc.org/doc/scheme#sec:Booleans 23:13:15 realitygrill [realitygri@nat/hackerschool.com/x-xgnaohgiebzvniud] has joined #scheme 23:13:35 it would probably be true, though you shouldn't really be relying on it 23:14:29 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-149-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:14:36 I didn't think so. 23:14:55 i guess I'll have to default all the record slots to #f 23:14:59 thanks 23:17:47 right, it's a case of 'say what you mean' 23:23:51 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 23:24:52 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #scheme 23:24:52 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:28:49 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-52-166-250.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:29:19 -!- copumpkin is now known as TomWilliams 23:29:49 -!- realitygrill [realitygri@nat/hackerschool.com/x-xgnaohgiebzvniud] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:29:52 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #scheme 23:29:52 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:30:06 -!- TomWilliams is now known as copumpkin 23:33:39 -!- DT`` is now known as DT` 23:40:23 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.98] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:44:07 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #scheme 23:44:07 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:49:42 crundar [~Jason@99-108-224-199.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:49:42 -!- pepijndevos is now known as pepijn_away 23:50:53 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #scheme 23:50:53 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:55:35 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:55:53 -!- mmc1 [~michal@178-85-60-41.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]