00:09:47 jfe_ [~user@ool-18bfe75c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 00:09:50 hi all 00:10:43 is a variable "free" if it's defined in an enclosing scope? 00:11:10 conversely, is a variable "bound" if it's defined in the "current" scope? 00:12:19 anntzer [~antony@gyrus.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:12:51 jfe_, it would be better to talk about expressions. 00:13:38 -!- anntzer [~antony@gyrus.Berkeley.EDU] has left #scheme 00:13:44 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 00:14:08 x is bound in (2+ (let x = 3 in x+4)) considered as a whole, but considering only (x+4), it's free. 00:14:59 x is only bound within (let ..), right? 00:15:06 -!- jrslepak_neu [~jrslepak@punchout.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:15:19 yes. 00:17:03 jfe_: yes, freeness of variables is relative to scopes. 00:17:10 -!- pepijndevos is now known as pepijn_away 00:17:25 jrslepak_neu [~jrslepak@punchout.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 00:27:53 reading SICP... "A formal parameter of a procedure has a very special role in the procedure definition, in that it doesn't matter what name the formal parameter has." 00:28:49 does this mean that binding expressions may shadow names defined in enclosing scopes? 00:28:54 shardz_ [~samantha@ilo.staticfree.info] has joined #scheme 00:29:09 by shadow i mean "hide" 00:29:54 -!- imphasing [~Alex@97-81-65-25.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:29:59 aoh_ [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #scheme 00:30:27 imphasing [~Alex@97-81-65-25.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:30:29 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:30:35 twem2 [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has joined #scheme 00:30:48 jhemann [~Jason@156-56-194-219.ssl-vpn.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 00:31:38 -!- shardz [~samantha@ilo.staticfree.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:31:38 -!- net4all [~net4all@bacon.lysator.liu.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:31:38 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:31:38 -!- twem2_ [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:31:39 -!- brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:31:41 -!- m4burns [~m4burns@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:31:55 jfe_, that's possible, I think it may also mean that "argument names don't matter" 00:32:49 -!- sethalves [~user@ext.nat.phx.lindenlab.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:32:50 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:33:00 m4burns [~m4burns@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 00:34:11 sethalves [~user@ext.nat.phx.lindenlab.com] has joined #scheme 00:36:10 brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has joined #scheme 00:36:37 adiii [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:38:30 -!- pepijn_away is now known as pepijndevos 00:39:18 -!- brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:39:41 The PC movie format continues. They guy called, and said he can only open AVI files. I don't even have to reeoncode stuff, I just transfer the data from the one container to the other. 00:40:24 -!- aoh_ [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:40:32 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #scheme 00:42:00 oops 00:42:22 brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has joined #scheme 00:42:31 -!- saccadewrk [saccadewrk@nat/google/x-gzabzwrefoygywdz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:42:57 saccadewrk [saccadewrk@nat/google/x-hwbfzsnvbvuuybkm] has joined #scheme 00:44:03 net4all [~net4all@bacon.lysator.liu.se] has joined #scheme 00:48:14 jhemann_ [~Jason@2601:d:a900:2b:1898:aa7f:d7d5:4aaf] has joined #scheme 00:51:01 -!- jhemann [~Jason@156-56-194-219.ssl-vpn.indiana.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:52:45 jfe_: watch 00:52:48 rudybot: (((lambda (x) (lambda (y) x)) 3) 4) 00:52:48 jrslepak: ; Value: 3 00:52:52 rudybot: (((lambda (x) (lambda (x) x)) 3) 4) 00:52:52 jrslepak: ; Value: 4 00:55:00 jfe_: in version 1, x refers to what's bound by the outer lambda -- in version 2, both lambdas bind x, so x refers to what's bound by the inner one 01:02:52 in that link asumu sent, the syntax parameters paper, the first example of an unhygenic macro doesn't even work for me. Same error 01:03:37 http://pastebin.com/8wyZv6wu 01:04:01 gives unbound identifier error when it sees abort 01:05:08 Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 01:05:14 What do people think of Kernel? 01:08:10 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-69-133-27-32.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:20:25 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:22:06 foof: yes, will do 01:24:31 jrslepak: thanks :) 01:29:55 peeeep [~potato@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:30:15 foof: done, also added the diff with the fix that worked for me 01:32:23 jfe_: now, think about it: if the parameter shadows an enclosing binding, doesn't that mean that it matters a lot what name the formal parameter has? ie. that sentence of sicp is just wrong. 01:33:03 For the same reason, traveling to a star that's ten light years away takes just a couple of years to get there. 01:35:06 I honestly cannot for the life of me get these unhygenic macros to work 01:35:22 jfe_: compare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus#Alpha_equivalence which is wrong like the sentence of sicp above, with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus#.CE.B1-conversion which is correct. 01:36:16 can anybody help out. I just need one simple example of an unhygenic macro and I can take it from there 01:36:27 s/\./? 01:37:07 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:38:03 (defmacro for ((var start increment end) &body body) `(let ((i ,increment) (,var ,start)) (while (< ,var ,end) ,@body (incf ,var i)))) 01:39:54 (let ((i 42)) (for (j 1 1 3) (print i))) prints 1 twice instead of 42 twice. 01:39:54 doomrobo, note that that code is Common Lisp 01:40:09 yeah, I need it in scheme 01:40:18 Well, aren't non-hygienic macros in scheme written as in CL? 01:40:29 It's not r5rs anyways. 01:40:45 Scheme's macros are hygienic, although some implementations offer unhygienic macros 01:40:54 And I've seen unhygienic macros being faked 01:41:02 are you saying there is no way at all by any means whatsoever to implement unhygenic macros in r5rs? 01:41:33 doomrobo: you can write a scheme that implement unhygienic macros in r5rs. 01:42:05 But in r5rs, it won't be at the same floor of the metalinguistic tower. 01:42:47 so is there or isn't there a way? I have been thinking about this for 5hrs and it's killing me 01:42:56 CL offers more facilities to merge metalinguistic tower floors, but you often have to use a different floor too. 01:43:01 no CL 01:43:02 scheme 01:43:33 Depends on what you mean exactly by "no way at all by any means whatsoever to implement unhygenic macros in r5rs". 01:43:45 pjb, I want it to work in racket 01:43:46 that's it 01:43:54 just racket code that is unhygenic 01:43:59 Well racket is not restricted to r5rs. 01:44:09 I know, I was asking for that as a best case 01:44:12 (and that's all I know about racket). 01:44:13 I don't care anymore 01:44:23 Racket violates R5RS I think 01:44:31 wouldn't surprise me 01:44:34 It no longer considers itself Scheme but a Scheme-derivative 01:49:43 -!- dzhus [~dzhus@95-24-202-97.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:50:04 b4283 [~b4283@60-249-196-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 01:50:41 -!- b4283 is now known as b4284 01:51:24 doomrobo: said otherwise, have you heard about Turing Equivalence? 01:52:05 nope 01:52:31 pjb, I could implement Python in Brain****, that does not mean that Brain**** supports named variables. 01:52:36 >.> 01:52:48 Well, ok, except for reading/writing files etc. 02:02:00 Sgeo: that could be argued. But in the case of lisp and scheme, since they're metalinguistic programming languages, it can be argued even more strongly. 02:02:55 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 02:08:38 -!- pepijndevos is now known as pepijn_away 02:11:16 DEAR GOD WHY WAS THIS SO DIFFICULT: http://pastebin.com/U8MyEyPW 02:13:27 Because unhygienic macros are BAAAAD! 02:13:30 At least, in a lisp-1. 02:13:44 well it works and that's all I care about 02:13:55 Perhaps. I don't know what it does. 02:13:59 because you approached this expecting macros to be like macros in C? 02:14:29 jrslepak, I didn't at all. I've seen the power in LISP macros and I was hoping there would be some simple way to side-step it 02:14:33 Aren't Clojure's macros unhygienic/ 02:14:38 And Clojure is a lisp-1 02:14:46 Does Clojure have macros? 02:14:55 doomrobo: then because you did not expect hygiene :-P 02:15:04 pjb, yes 02:15:06 They're bad in a Lisp-2 too. It's just that the probability of being bitten is a little lower. 02:15:10 jrslepak, that's more like ti 02:15:13 *it :-P 02:15:14 Riastradh: yes. 02:15:16 http://clojure.org/macros 02:15:32 With a gensyming feature similar to one described in let-over-lambda 02:16:02 `Broken' is a better word than `unhygienic'. 02:16:27 Also, CL prevents f-redefinition, even locally, of the symbols exported from the CL package. 02:16:39 They're all second-class, and as such, are broken. Kernel is the way. 02:16:40 That's great, for the CL package. 02:16:43 *Sgeo* ducks 02:18:06 That said it's easy to write macros as hygienic as needed in CL, I don't know of any actual problem caused by them. 02:19:15 I don't know if scheme as a library for macrolet. The macros I define with macrolet are often unhygienic: they expand to forms containing variables defined in outer scopes. 02:19:50 (let ((state 'x)) (macrolet ((word1 () `( state )) (word2 () `( state )) ) (sentence (word1) (word2) ))) 02:19:51 I haven't gotten to the relevent section yet, but I'm under the impression Kernel operatives are hygienic yet programmatic 02:19:54 Best of all worlds 02:20:01 thus defining a mini DSL of local scope. 02:21:32 *pjb* should go read r7rs 02:24:00 *Sgeo* is reading Revised -1 Report on the Kernel Programming Language 02:24:25 Sgeo, you're either the creator or a rabid fanboy 02:24:57 Not a fanboy yet, but so far I think I'm a fan 02:26:21 I'd be more of a fanboy if there were a community 02:26:21 mister_m [~mister_m@li519-220.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 02:27:07 It turns out that it's very hard to reason about programs that use fexprs, Sgeo, and that's why they don't turn up in any practical programming languages today. 02:28:27 it's unreasonable! 02:28:27 For example, in Scheme, I can guarantee you that -- provided I/O works -- if you apply the procedure (lambda (f) (f #t (begin (display "Foo!") 0) 1)) to any argument, no matter what argument you pass it, then it will display `Foo!'. 02:29:02 Kernel, however, gives no such guarantees. 02:31:15 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-123-93.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 03:00:19 Sgeo: yeah, they're hygienic, because they pass expressions that are already bound to environments, i think 03:01:26 -!- doomrobo [~michael@cpe-72-225-251-161.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 03:03:18 Riastradh: Io (language) behaves like that, but I thought Kernel bound applicatives at expansion time 03:05:08 I didn't think there was an expansion time, but I haven't even come near finishing reading the report 03:06:58 Hmm, you know, I think I might be confused. Never mind 03:07:13 About Kernel I mean 03:08:24 I think I momentarily confused it with Dybvig's "expansion passing style" paper of old, that was recently reddited 03:09:49 ...why was that reddited? I never understood what's so exciting about it. 03:11:20 Well, it was a little clever, you have to admit. But not exciting. 03:11:42 Clever? What's the point? 03:12:41 (let loop ((form form)) ((expander (car form)) form loop)) and (lambda (form loop) (loop ...)) versus (let loop ((form form)) (loop ((expander (car form)) form))) and (lambda (form) ...). 03:12:52 Well, maybe it only appeals to amateurs. I liked it 03:13:27 Is there anything interesting you can do besides (lambda (form loop) (loop ...))? 03:13:34 Maybe I'm missing something. 03:19:25 Well, you can implement let-macro 03:38:28 grettke [~grettke@CPE-70-92-11-221.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:40:56 reddited. 03:41:03 sounds like a curse. 03:41:09 you reddited what 03:44:16 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 03:47:12 In Soviat Russia, article reddits you! 03:47:19 Apologies, qu1j0t3 03:47:48 masm [~masm@bl17-198-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 03:49:52 How many folks would be up for a non-acm-ieee-icfp related Scheme shindig? Wonder where Schemers lie. 03:50:27 Where at? 03:51:38 Riastradh: i'd draw the illusion to Pravda. 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joined #scheme 13:28:48 tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.213.187.115] has joined #scheme 13:32:17 adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-254-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:34:57 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-25-246.dynamic.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 13:39:52 are there code coverage tools for any scheme? 13:43:07 -!- tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.213.187.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:44:10 -!- hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:46:25 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-211.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 13:50:19 3http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Code-Coverage.html 13:50:39 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:51:00 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 13:52:21 ijp [~user@host31-53-16-58.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 13:53:53 adu: Racket does with "syntactic test suite coverage" set in the language menu. 13:54:14 ah thanks 13:56:03 tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.192.140.153] has joined #scheme 13:56:49 -!- tokiya [~tokiya@210.24.42.190] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:56:49 -!- pothos [~pothos@114-36-234-167.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:56:49 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-165-161.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:56:50 -!- klutometis [~klutometi@pdpc/supporter/professional/klutometis] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:56:50 -!- dlind [~user@h-2-78.a322.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:56:50 -!- shachaf [~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:57:25 pothos [~pothos@114-36-234-167.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 13:57:25 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-165-161.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:57:25 shachaf [~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf] has joined #scheme 13:57:25 klutometis [~klutometi@pdpc/supporter/professional/klutometis] has joined #scheme 13:57:25 dlind [~user@h-2-78.a322.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #scheme 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14:06:26 I know you guys probably hate me by now, but how would I implement a pop function using mlists to take one element from the beginning of a list given only set-mcar! set-mcdr! mappend! 14:07:14 For the less enlightened among us: what's an mlist? 14:07:21 LeoNerd: a mutable list 14:07:25 ^^ 14:07:27 racket 14:07:30 Ah. 14:07:54 I know it's all ugly but it has to be if you're making an imperative language in Scheme 14:08:25 -!- tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.192.140.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:08:27 that's not true 14:08:39 in Scheme lists are mutable, actually. 14:08:49 mario-goulart: in racket this is not the case 14:08:51 Yeah, that's what confused me. 14:08:58 and mutable lists are a mistake anyway IMO 14:08:59 Racket is a Scheme-like variant language 14:09:11 so how would I do it? 14:10:04 doomrobo: well, assuming you want to operate on the mlist directly, and not indirect it through a sentinel, then you could mutate the car and cdr of the first pair to have the values of the second pair 14:10:15 this breaks down for lists of length 1 however 14:11:11 kvda_ [~kvda@ppp121-44-123-94.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 14:11:20 doomrobo: What's the exact specification? 14:11:33 something like (define (pop! l)(let ((p2 (cdr l)))(set-car! l (car p2))(set-cdr! l (cdr p2)))) 14:12:26 Euthy`, of what? 14:12:27 frankly though, the sentinel solution is nicer 14:12:52 Of the problem. 14:13:07 and corresponds more closely to the idea of a single mutable list datatype, than a sequence of mutable pairs 14:13:10 I'm assuming this is some kind of homework? 14:13:14 Euthy`, no 14:13:28 -!- miql [~miql@ip98-165-228-225.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:13:30 Euthy`, I just had to pop from a list given only car and cdr mutators 14:14:13 or, you can write a macro instead of a function 14:14:28 that would work as well 14:14:29 (define-syntax-rule (pop! l) (set! l (cdr l))) 14:14:42 yeah, and I could avoid using mlists altogether 14:14:57 because set! still works if it's in a macro 14:15:18 set! is not guaranteed to return the new value, iirc? 14:15:31 not return 14:15:32 set! isn't guaranteed to return anything 14:15:35 modify the environment 14:15:46 so it points to a new value 14:16:31 yeah, I like the macro idea better 14:18:51 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:19:05 Is there some convention as to whether pop returns the popped value or not? 14:19:23 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:19:54 I find it highly useful when it does 14:19:59 :-P 14:20:11 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #scheme 14:20:15 Euthy`, I believe that's the definition 14:21:07 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 14:24:45 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:34:38 hash_table [~quassel@128.249.96.123] has joined #scheme 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[~tejaswidp@117.192.147.103] has joined #scheme 19:28:31 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-60-41.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 19:30:32 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD603D1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:32:40 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-179-210.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:36:54 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:36:57 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #scheme 19:42:34 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-254-35.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 19:43:32 -!- tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.192.147.103] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 19:45:07 tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.192.147.103] has joined #scheme 20:00:04 -!- tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.192.147.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:01:41 Why do you think syntax called `(thunk body ...)' never caught on, that reduces to `(lambda () body ...)'? 20:02:06 I'm tempted to make one; but it seems bizarre to me that it doesn't exist (at least in Chicken). 20:02:10 I guess it's because it doesn't do you much 20:02:31 It's semantically clearer, though; not necessarily a keystroke-saving device. 20:02:31 klutometis: I use it fairly often. Makes things a bit cleaner (in Racket). 20:02:43 m4burns: Oh, nice; Racket has it out of the box? 20:02:53 I'd argue that it's not semantically clear 20:03:02 since thunk is "defined" to be a function which takes no arguments 20:03:10 klutometis: yeah, it's built into the core module 20:03:15 but... I guess it's a matter of choice 20:03:16 My very first question when I came to #scheme, oh, about 6 years ago; was "what the hell is a thunk?" 20:03:25 `Thunk' sometimes means promise. 20:04:08 Riastradh: Oh, interesting; niladic lambda just happens to be an implementation. 20:05:45 phao: In that case, if niladic lambda is merely one implementation of thunk, it seems even more appropriate to have a thunk-form. 20:06:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:08:14 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:09:36 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-179-210.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:43 idk 20:10:53 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-179-210.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:10:58 do you have a special form for functions of 2 arguments, or 1? 20:10:59 or 3? 20:11:03 they're even more common. 20:11:18 I don't see the point. There is nothing wrong with it, but I don't see the point. 20:13:35 tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.192.137.173] has joined #scheme 20:16:53 I've had the trivial definition of such a thunk macro in my utils module for ages, but it just feels like more work to import it, than to just do (lambda () ...) 20:17:16 if it was built in, then maybe I could see the point of it 20:17:53 klutometis, the, afaik, generally accepted guideline is somewhat like this: 20:18:12 do it if you want, but you should keep this sort of stuff hidden in your "module" 20:18:17 because someone else may not want it. 20:19:01 I guess many programmers have their own utilities libraries that reflects personal preferences, which they use, but don't expose 20:19:26 phao: Copy-and-paste is a pain in the ass; might petition Felix to include something like `thunk' in `miscmacros'. 20:19:34 =) 20:19:54 make your own klumisc module =D 20:20:04 klutils =D 20:20:09 We've relied on the thunk/niladic-lambda pun for so long that it seems like second-nature; I'm teaching Scheme to some noobs, though, and the pun is somewhat distracting. 20:20:10 klutometis: I'd also suggest adding -> and ->> from clojure to miscmacros, since they are quite nice 20:20:12 phao: Heh. 20:20:26 (define-syntax (thunk b ...) (lambda () b ...)) quick enough to type ;p 20:20:48 ijp: I like those, too; check out: . 20:21:36 leppie: Yeah; combine that with three or four forms, though, and you have an obligatory preamble. 20:22:03 tejaswi [~tejaswidp@117.192.141.124] has joined #scheme 20:22:20 klutometis, about teaching... 20:22:21 leppie: for similar reasons, when and unless have been reinvented in at least a dozen places in guile 20:22:27 I've seen some materials that, tot each 20:22:32 they had their own extensions 20:22:35 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:22:40 like "load this before reading" 20:22:48 phao: That's not a bad idea. 20:22:48 ijp: :) at least R6RS has it builtin ;p 20:22:51 and then they're add some functions, 20:23:09 leppie: yeah, but at leasat they added it to the base (guile) module too, eventually 20:23:19 they'd* 20:24:11 -!- tejaswi [~tejaswidp@117.192.141.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:27 -!- tejaswidp 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