00:11:09 ThePawnBreak [Cristi@94.177.108.25] has joined #scheme 00:17:16 githogori [~githogori@c-50-131-15-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:17:41 -!- langmartin [~user@68-186-113-4.dhcp.knwc.wa.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:17:50 tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.192.129.248] has joined #scheme 00:23:22 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:24:11 -!- masm [~masm@bl17-200-117.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:25:32 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:25:48 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:27:42 -!- ThePawnBreak [Cristi@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:35:38 ThePawnBreak [Cristi@94.177.108.25] has joined #scheme 00:36:16 peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #scheme 00:41:07 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:41:14 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:49:54 -!- arbn [~arbn@pool-74-98-200-128.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:51:26 arbn [~arbn@pool-74-98-200-128.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:59:37 -!- tejaswidp [~tejaswidp@117.192.129.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:00 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 01:15:17 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #scheme 01:39:13 woonie [~woonie@175.156.195.38] has joined #scheme 01:43:14 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:45:51 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #scheme 01:46:55 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 01:59:25 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 01:59:26 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:01:32 -!- turbofail [~user@38.99.37.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:03:42 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:18:50 spionHL [~spion@95.156.41.214] has joined #scheme 02:20:55 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 02:20:55 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:24:10 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 02:24:10 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:26:42 albert-sicp [~albert@108-205-152-179.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:28:42 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-251.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:29:54 albert-sicp: etags -l scheme --regex="/[ t]*(def[a-z-]+[ t]+(.*)/1/" **/*.scm 02:30:10 Does anyone else have any suggestions for running etags on Scheme files? 02:30:24 http://bc.tech.coop/blog/031102.html 02:30:33 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-82.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:35:11 The problem here is that the code is wrapped in a module. 02:35:23 I suspect that etags notion of Scheme has to be modified. 02:38:12 albert-sicp: etags -l scheme --regex="/[ t]*(def[a-z-]+[ t]+.*/1/" **/*.scm 02:38:24 That takes away the parenthesis-constraint for things like case-lambda. 02:39:56 mayhaps you can include the body code from another file ? 02:40:17 (as i think is common with the module system in Scheme48) 02:41:18 ski: Exactly; that supposed to be best-practice. None of the egg authors do it, though. 02:41:21 I'll have to revive it. 02:41:32 Once upon a time, no code went in my module files; now it's inlined. 02:41:36 Fuck. 02:44:40 as i understand it, this way is much nicer to use with multiple module systems from different Schemes, so can be more portable 02:51:10 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 02:51:11 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:56:02 ski: It would also work with Semantic, apparently; which, via ElDoc, would allow Scheme Complete to give you contextual docs for your Scheme procedures. 02:56:27 albert-sicp is coming from Eclipse-land, where all this shit is implicitly expected. 02:56:34 Would be nice to get it rolling. 02:57:10 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 02:57:10 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:57:37 once upon a time I kludged up a regexp that would let etags do the right thing for scheme. 02:57:57 But I dunno if I still have it; for small project that use git (which describes pretty much everything I do), "M-x git-grep" works fine 02:58:16 /project/projects/ 02:58:19 -!- spionHL [~spion@95.156.41.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:59:05 offby1: Interesting; let me know if you can find the regexp-incantation. 02:59:10 *offby1* looks 02:59:13 Meanwhile, we'll try git-grep. 02:59:24 git-grep only exists in my .emacs as far as I know :-( 03:00:18 offby1: Oh, I see; there's vc-git-grep, but that's something different. 03:00:24 klutometis : "Semantic","albert-sicp" ? 03:00:49 klutometis: I found this, but cannot vouch for it: http://ix.io/2Db 03:01:21 I'm looking to emulate eclipse features like jumping to definitions and documentation in emacs, when working with chicken scheme 03:01:34 ski: Oh, sorry; Semantic is some new-fangled Emacs thing which parses language semantically. There's support for Scheme: . 03:01:34 http://tinyurl.com/7w92cyv 03:01:38 klutometis: also this, ditto: http://ix.io/2Dc 03:01:51 ski: albert-sicp is the prenominate cat in this channel. 03:01:58 albert-sicp: funny, klutometis and I are talking about exactly that 03:02:07 offby1: Thanks. 03:02:20 .oO("prenominate cat"?) 03:02:29 offby1: Aforementioned person 03:02:39 SPIK INGLICH 03:02:53 "Party of the first part" 03:03:42 Damn; is "prenominate cat" undecipherable? 03:03:50 I'm experiencing uncaniness. 03:04:07 My model of mind is defective. 03:04:19 "uncaniness": N. The condition of not being a dog 03:04:26 offby1: Heh. 03:04:27 i.e., not being on the Internet 03:05:01 rudybot: who's your daddy 03:05:02 *offby1: So did Go Daddy lose or not lose its domains? 03:05:13 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:05:22 rudybot: Do you think I keep track of every Internet troll?! 03:05:23 *offby1: well, all the m-audio stuff works with linux. they make something cheaper in the $70 range called the plain Fast Track, and i think something cheaper 03:05:30 :-( 03:05:33 "think" apparently 03:05:37 I was hoping for "troll" 03:05:43 no, "track". 03:05:44 hmph 03:06:14 surprising how often the quip has _two_ words in common. 03:06:14 offby1: Are you using a reverse-logarithmic thing that prefers the long-tail? 03:06:19 more or less. 03:06:21 offby1: True. 03:06:28 i.e., I prefer longer utterances. 03:06:33 Oh, interesting. 03:06:36 but I always go for the "rarest" word. 03:06:57 honestly I only glanced at your code one, said "huh, I don't really understand this", and went off and did my own thing. 03:07:03 I better bring back incubot just to keep you on your toes. 03:07:11 oh indayd 03:07:12 Server failure, too lazy to resurrect him. 03:07:21 geez, kid: ec2! 03:07:26 Yeah, no shit. 03:07:59 s/one/once/ 03:08:04 but you probably inferred that 03:08:11 Turns out ec2 is less oeconomic than running a rig, in some cases, though. 03:08:25 could be. 03:08:42 But if some guy on IRC sets you up an account and says "go for it" ... then it could be cheaper 03:08:42 *offby1* whistles innocently 03:08:57 where by "cheaper" I mean 'free' 03:09:03 Heh; that would be pretty cool. 03:09:26 and I don't mean "I can get you a free ec2 instance 'cuz I work at Amazon"; I mean "I'll give you a login on my pathetic micro-tiny instance" 03:09:56 (although the former might indeed be worth investigating at some point) 03:11:04 offby1: Did you go back, or are you still at the advertising joint? 03:11:34 I'm at Amazon, but alas as a contractor. I'm hoping for the fabled "blue badge" (i.e., full-time permanent status) but it's early days yet 03:11:47 Oh, nice; that's a home-coming for you, isn't it? 03:11:50 The advertising joint, alas, laid me off. 03:11:55 I seem to recall you having worked there at some point. 03:12:08 pothos [~pothos@36-224-100-109.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 03:12:10 Well, I'd worked at Amazon as a contractor once before, but it was a disaster. I was so bored that I ... I ... I wrote an IRC bot :) 03:12:21 srsl 03:12:22 y 03:12:31 Heh; there's got to be some variant of Greenspun's for that. 03:12:42 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-28-174.dynamic.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:12:42 *ski* thinks "prenominate cat" is indeed uncanine 03:13:19 (oh, i see offby1 got ahead of me) 03:13:26 I did? Oh, pardon me 03:13:34 *offby1* tips his hat moves to the back of the line 03:13:39 "Any sufficiently uninteresting job degenerates into IRC-bot-writing." 03:13:46 :-) 03:13:54 no, it's all right. i bid thee, don't make amends for my sake 03:14:03 Apres tois, Alphonse 03:14:12 Oh, nice, you guys: I didn't even catch the lack of n in "uncaniness". 03:14:15 Good eyes. 03:14:21 pretty sure I was a good boy and didn't do it on company time, but still 03:21:04 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 03:33:44 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 03:39:10 realitygrill [~realitygr@ool-ad03a5e7.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 03:42:51 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 03:45:32 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-160-157.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 03:46:22 -!- b4283 [~user@114-47-0-239.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:47:39 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #scheme 03:56:24 b4283 [~user@114-47-0-239.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 03:56:24 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-160-157.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:56:50 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@ool-ad03a5e7.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 03:57:36 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-160-157.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 04:07:37 -!- albert-sicp [~albert@108-205-152-179.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:21:43 phao_ [phao@177.78.86.177] has joined #scheme 04:24:42 -!- FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:25:24 -!- phao [phao@189.98.142.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:25:29 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:27:41 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #scheme 04:53:21 -!- phao_ [phao@177.78.86.177] has quit [Quit: Not Here] 04:53:31 phao [phao@177.78.86.177] has joined #scheme 04:54:30 realitygrill [~realitygr@ool-18ba55c0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 04:54:47 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yjbabxcjasnncxsw] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:55:18 -!- nischayn22 [u5809@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dycittcamzpezbze] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:58:33 anothervenue [~lucasallm@76.91.162.213] has joined #scheme 05:03:01 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-49-7-63.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:03:29 bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-49-7-63.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 05:09:32 nischayn22 [u5809@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zefiwagyfwgekoxe] has joined #scheme 05:16:27 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:17:25 FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 05:17:58 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #scheme 05:20:38 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@66-168-47-170.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 05:21:06 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:23:10 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host73.190-229-121.telecom.net.ar] has joined #scheme 05:27:29 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@c-69-136-24-18.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: EPIC5-1.1.2[1638] - amnesiac : Error 467: Illegal brain function. Process terminated] 05:31:27 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zwkfxlwpdvxgijke] has joined #scheme 05:36:32 mhr [60fd6497@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.253.100.151] has joined #scheme 05:36:42 -!- FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:37:59 http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/03/23/the-long-overdue-serious-attempt-at-lisp-part-1-which-lisp/#comment-861 in a comment it says that hygienic macros are less powerful than, I guess, "dirty" macros. Is that true? If so, why? 05:37:59 http://tinyurl.com/74adpel 05:38:57 define powerful 05:40:05 being able to do bad things, maybe ? 05:40:06 syntax rules is certainly less convenient to use for complicated purposes than defmacro can be, but oleg and al petrofsky have done some quite astonishing things with them 05:40:11 I'm not really sure, I'm just learning about macros and what they are and what they can do. To be honest, I can't say I completely understand what a hygienic and non-hygienic macro is. 05:40:28 `syntax-rules' isn't the only hygienic macro system 05:40:39 syntax-case, on the other hand, is basically better than defmacro for all conceivable purposes 05:40:47 05:40:54 mhr, a hygienic macro system is one in which you can write reliably composable macros. An unhygienic macro system is one in which any code using macros tends to break in random weird ways that are hard to predict, a long time after you wrote it and forgot about it. 05:40:56 ski: I know, but people tend to conflate the two ideas 05:41:07 ijp : indeed, hence my clarification 05:41:58 Riadstradh: in that case, I'd take a hygienic macro system over a headache, even if it might be "more powerful". 05:43:09 Exactly, mhr. And, that said, a macro system supporting hygiene isn't necessarily even precluded from doing everything a macro system lacking it, such as Common Lisp's, can do. 05:44:03 found another article regarding hygienic vs. non-hygienic: http://www.randomhacks.net/articles/2002/09/13/hygienic-macros 05:44:46 *blog post, to be specific 05:45:52 -!- ijp [~user@host86-174-98-205.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:46:10 ijp [~user@host86-174-98-205.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 05:46:29 at this point, with syntax parameters, I think there is only one reasonable use case for unhygeinic macros, and that is define-struct type macros 05:46:42 though, this is may be a limitation of my imagination 05:47:47 mhr : might be interesting 05:48:27 You can do DEFINE-STRUCT hygienically, and you can do DEFINE-STRUCT unhygienically. If you do it hygienically, then you can write other hygienic macros in terms of it -- it's composable. If you do it unhygienically, all the macros and users of the macros involved interfere and fail to compose. 05:49:19 Riastradh: I took it as implied that I was talking about the ones that generate function names 05:49:28 So am I, ijp. 05:49:54 Riastradh: so how do I create function names from others hygienically? I suspect I am missing a step 05:52:07 What's important is whether the caller of the DEFINE-STRUCT macro -- and only the caller, not other parties -- has access to the generated names. 05:52:47 I see 05:53:05 -!- alcuadrado [~alcuadrad@unaffiliated/alcuadrado] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:53:06 As a simpler example, consider AIF. You can do AIF hygienically, or you can do it unhygienically. 05:54:06 mhr : also see the two important properties at the start of 05:54:54 right, so to clarify, if I have a hygienic AIF, then the introduced identifier would be available in code written to use it directly, and in the code of macros that use it, but if it was introduced indirectly by a macro, it shouldn't interfere with the code 05:54:59 (also see for `aif') 05:55:23 unless said macro also explicitly made it available 05:55:44 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-209-233-96.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:55:59 yes? no? 05:57:14 Just a moment; I had a good example a while ago of what goes wrong with an unhygienic AIF, but I haven't thought about it in years and need to reconstruct it. 05:57:59 *ski* is not quite sure of how ijp's situation looks like 05:59:34 ski: (aif foo bar it) <- it captured here 05:59:45 (define-syntax some-macro .... (aif ...) ...) (let ((it 'val) (some-macro it))) <- it not captured here 06:00:28 at least, I think this is the distinction he is trying to make 06:01:44 anyway, I'm fine with the hygiene/unhygeine distinction in general, it's just this special case with *generated* (i.e. may be different in different macro invocations) identifiers, than I am confused on (I think) 06:01:46 (the macro on the page i linked to would be called like `(aif it foo bar it)', which is one reason i wondered) 06:02:12 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #scheme 06:02:29 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-141.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:03:11 i'm not sure how `it' above could be considered to be "generated" 06:03:23 ski: it wouldn't be 06:03:43 ski: I'm not talking about classic AIF either, since that always binds 'it' 06:04:02 then i'm not sure what you're talking about 06:04:33 ski: cases like (define-struct foo (bar baz)) -> definitions make-foo foo-bar foo-baz 06:05:19 the names that are bound are synthesised from the arguments deterministically, but not passed in explicitly 06:05:28 ah, composing new identifiers out of old (given) ones, and of statically given parts 06:05:37 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-66-32.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 06:05:47 (the `-' is the statically given part in this case) 06:07:31 this a newbie question, but does scheme have side-effects ever? where should I be aware of that? 06:07:58 mhr: set!, data structure mutators and io 06:08:06 that it? 06:08:31 they are the obvious ones 06:08:37 okay, cool 06:08:55 -!- anothervenue [~lucasallm@76.91.162.213] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 06:09:15 anothervenue [~lucasallm@76.91.162.213] has joined #scheme 06:12:12 lolcow [~lolcow@196-209-233-96.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:12:31 mhr : `set-car!',`display',`set!',`call-with-current-continuation',`with-input-from-port',`current-input-port' e.g. 06:12:54 ah, good point about call/cc 06:13:08 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-141.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:13:15 (also `dynamic-wind') 06:13:19 -!- lolcow is now known as leppie 06:13:38 I thought set-car! was taken out? http://blog.racket-lang.org/2007/11/getting-rid-of-set-car-and-set-cdr.html 06:13:39 http://tinyurl.com/2bws4fr 06:13:46 mhr: in racket only 06:13:48 with-exception-handler 06:13:49 mhr : that's Racket 06:14:01 shame they didn't remove string-set! while they were at it 06:14:05 nvm then 06:14:06 mhr : and it's still present in the `r5rs' language in Racket 06:14:19 ijp: string-fill! too 06:14:24 yes 06:14:33 *ski* agrees with ijp,leppie 06:14:37 rudybot: string mutation is a war crime 06:14:38 ijp: "Film noir is a cinematic term used primarily to describe stylish Hollywood crime dramas, particularly those that emphasize cynical attitudes and sexual motivations." 06:14:42 FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 06:15:29 *ijp* considers starting an anti-string-set! pressure group 06:15:52 ijp joins 06:16:03 death to mutable strings! 06:16:06 is there a list somewhere of what was carved out of racket that is still in r5rs? or is it really not a huge list? 06:16:31 probably transcript-on and transcript-off; they won't be missed 06:17:09 mhr : i think the general sentiment (to the extent such a one exists) in Scheme is that one should normally refrain from using side-effects, but don't be afraid of using them when they help 06:17:10 I expect the rest is still there 06:17:46 ah 06:18:23 mhr : e.g., when looping, it's better to not use `set!' or mutation, if you don't really need to (or it makes the code much simpler and more maintainable) 06:28:37 -!- woonie [~woonie@175.156.195.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:31:47 *ski* waits a moment 06:32:33 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #scheme 06:41:11 -!- anothervenue [~lucasallm@76.91.162.213] has left #scheme 06:41:22 anothervenue [~lucasallm@76.91.162.213] has joined #scheme 06:46:14 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f77b5b2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 06:48:42 -!- TheRealPygo [~Pygosceli@kiel-5f7684ba.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:53:28 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-209-233-96.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:58:09 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-141.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:01:50 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 07:04:11 -!- elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:04:30 makes sense 07:06:36 woonie [~woonie@175.156.195.38] has joined #scheme 07:07:29 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:09:53 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:10:20 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-63-124.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:10:47 cljs_newb_239879 [800c6768@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.12.103.104] has joined #scheme 07:10:48 sup 07:10:52 I want to write a theorem prover 07:11:01 rather, go throughwriting the core of one 07:11:04 a gugided tour 07:11:19 I want somethign like sicp, but "structure and IMPLEMENTATION of theorem provers" 07:11:38 waht books should I read? 07:12:44 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-141.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:13:36 elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has joined #scheme 07:16:35 -!- nischayn22 [u5809@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zefiwagyfwgekoxe] has left #scheme 07:16:47 leppie [~lolcow@196-209-233-96.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:17:21 -!- hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:17:21 -!- getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:17:25 -!- jonathansizz [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:18:24 cljs_newb_239879: are you saying you want to write a book? I'm confused as to what your goal is. 07:18:33 no, I want to read such a book 07:18:38 I am no where near qualified to write such a book 07:19:08 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-63-124.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 07:21:25 I don't think that Theorem Provers are explicitly tied to Scheme. I imagine if you are qualified in theorem proving, as well as Scheme you can accomplish your goal. 07:21:28 ffs [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has joined #scheme 07:21:40 So Id say Read SICP, TSL and TSPL 07:23:05 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@ool-18ba55c0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:28:14 -!- cljs_newb_239879 [800c6768@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.12.103.104] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:30:16 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 07:36:54 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:40:46 -!- arbn [~arbn@pool-74-98-200-128.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:45:07 TSL? TSPL? 07:46:18 -!- ffs [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:46:23 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.101.47] has joined #scheme 07:51:03 sonstwo [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has joined #scheme 07:53:03 for TSPL, I'm going to guess he meant The Scheme Programming Language, link: http://www.scheme.com/tspl3/ 07:53:27 as for TSL, I don't have a clue 07:54:19 whoops, newer edition: http://www.scheme.com/tspl4/ 07:54:55 Cheers. 07:56:47 The Little Schemer 07:57:04 and yes TSPL is The Scheme Programming Language 07:57:31 anothervenue: now I feel so moronic, I'm reading The Little Schemer right now, wow 07:57:56 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-48-212-214.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 07:58:16 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD60A31.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 07:58:23 mhr :D I just ordered it off of Half.com 07:59:55 never heard of half.com, what's their deal? it looks like an amazon 08:00:00 -!- FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:00:54 Its an eBay company, basically people sell used Books/CDs etc 08:01:12 I got a copy for $12 08:01:12 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-49-7-63.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:02:13 amazon sells it for $18 or so, pretty good deal 08:03:06 I basically check Amazon-Kindle-Half-Ebay, and go with whoever is cheapest. 08:03:27 choas [~lars@p4FDC48FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:03:37 I thought the kindle runs on amazon's services? 08:04:27 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:05:55 Yeah, but I'll buy the digital copy if it's cheaper 08:06:01 haha 08:06:34 ffs [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has joined #scheme 08:07:11 ah, got it. do you ever use barnes and noble? 08:07:39 -!- sonstwo [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:11:17 Sometimes, but usually their prices are really high 08:11:37 keenbug [~daniel@p4FDB67F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:12:15 huh, then I'm probably wasting my money, haha 08:12:34 are eq? and = the same thing? I typed (eq? 5 5) and (= 5 5) into Dr. Racket, and got #t for both 08:12:48 no 08:13:12 rudybot: eval (= 1 1.0) 08:13:13 ijp: your sandbox is ready 08:13:14 ijp: ; Value: #t 08:13:17 rudybot: eval (eq? 1 1.0) 08:13:17 ijp: ; Value: #f 08:14:27 oh, so then why did they both produce #t? I'm confused. What does each really mean? 08:14:53 also, eq? isn't technically defined for numbers IIRC 08:15:07 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-160-157.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:15:09 rudybot: eval (eq? 1234567890 (+ (- 1234567890 1) 1)) 08:15:09 ski: ; Value: #f 08:15:26 mhr: = is numerical equality, eq? is (roughly) pointer equality 08:15:29 oh, so I guess I'd be better off just sticking to = then in those circumstances 08:17:29 cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-38-178.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 08:18:28 going to bed, bye folks 08:18:29 -!- mhr [60fd6497@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.253.100.151] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:33:03 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:34:10 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: um... 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11:26:53 gremmachook [u1735@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hfwnpzbdswmrgcfp] has joined #scheme 11:29:33 Anyone suggest static site generators in Scheme that they know/have used? 11:30:49 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4dbec5ba.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 11:31:03 only sxml->xml and call-with-output-port ;-) 11:33:28 -!- TheRealPygo [~Pygosceli@kiel-4dbec5e8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:34:06 sonstwo [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has joined #scheme 11:34:20 -!- ffs [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:38:47 Sorella [~quildreen@189-12-48-135.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #scheme 11:38:47 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@189-12-48-135.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 11:38:47 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #scheme 11:42:52 -!- sonstwo [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43:09 ffs [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has joined #scheme 11:51:41 -!- copumpkin 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z) evaluates x, yielding some value t, and evaluates to (list t y) if t is true or z if t is false. 16:32:43 (I was called away last night while I was reminding myself of this example.) 16:33:06 -!- Cristi__ [Cristi@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:33:13 ijp, I might like to write this in terms of AIF: (define-syntax or-list (syntax-rules () ((or-list x y z) (aif x (list it y) z)))). 16:34:30 ijp, with a hygienic macro system, (let ((it 1)) (or-list 0 it 2)) yields the list (0 1). With an unhygienic macro system, the use of AIF in the definition of OR-LIST leaks into its caller, and that expression yields (0 0). 16:42:23 mmc1 [~michal@178-85-66-32.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #scheme 16:42:58 FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 16:48:44 yoklov [~yoklov@66-168-47-170.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #scheme 16:48:46 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@66-168-47-170.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:24 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:57:42 -!- ThePawnBreak [Cristi@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:00:07 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.34.241] has left #scheme 17:01:23 -!- bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-48-212-214.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:02:16 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-48-212-214.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 17:04:13 -!- attila_lendvai 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FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@CPE00222d560998-CM00222d560995.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:41:05 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:44:31 jcowan [~John@p-67-158-180-195.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #scheme 17:46:30 hoi 17:46:51 Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 17:47:32 jcowan: ola 17:48:04 I wanted to mention how much I appreciate your new nick 17:48:24 I hated having to type the old one, and nick completion didn't help because of the coincidence with Quadrescence. 17:49:43 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:50:03 jcowan: don't get too accustomed 17:50:33 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:50:37 obviously Quadresce's existence is the real problem 17:51:51 Well, don't kill him, I need him. 17:52:22 Question for all: does anyone have practical experience using non-standard hash table 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[~fantazo@91.119.101.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:44 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-115.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:24 r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.126.198.200] has joined #scheme 19:54:35 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD61170.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:41 alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD61170.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:59:56 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-115.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:59:56 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-48-219-98.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 20:03:39 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r186-48-212-214.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:04:04 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 20:05:54 -!- alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD61170.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:06:05 alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD61170.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:12:19 Riastradh: yes, I think I got that with my attempt at an explanation. 20:16:38 gcartier [~gcartier@modemcable044.80-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:20:31 -!- pothos [~pothos@36-224-100-109.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:20:38 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme 20:25:07 -!- alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD61170.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:26:07 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD61170.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:33:49 -!- Sorella_ is now known as Sorella 20:38:58 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:39:29 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 20:41:09 -!- corani [~yaaic@119.80.86.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:47:49 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:39 alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD61715.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:52:40 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD61170.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00:15 jao [~user@206.Red-88-0-164.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:00:29 -!- jao [~user@206.Red-88-0-164.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:00:29 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 21:07:43 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 21:08:35 *fbs* wonders if http://paste.lisp.org/display/130429 can be simplified 21:08:49 '("a" "b" "c") -> "a,b,c" 21:10:16 if it isn't (string-join '("a" "b" "c") ","), then answer is yes :P 21:10:18 -!- ThePawnBreak [Cristi@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:11:04 ijp wins the fridge! 21:12:47 actually, that behaves differently if it gets empty strings in the list 21:12:56 but that's solvable with filter 21:13:02 -!- arbn [~arbn@pool-74-98-200-128.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:13:13 yea 21:16:01 one mini-optimisation is to use fold left instead of fold right, which won't build up stack space 21:16:10 this is safe since concatenation is associative 21:17:05 fold right can be faster cause of garbage collection if you need to reverse list at the end 21:17:37 which isn't relevant here 21:18:01 still nice to know 21:18:04 secondly, it says nothing of the space complexity of the algorithm 21:19:06 -!- alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD61715.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:20:17 Foldl for eager algorithms, foldr for lazy ones. 21:21:18 rudybot: fold, unfold, refold, fold-pairwise, unfold, fold again 21:21:18 ijp: fold, unfold, pair-fold, refold, ...depends... 21:21:58 rudybot: did the code turn into a beautiful crane? 21:21:59 ijp: clean dolly and crane work. But no shakeycam. 21:24:53 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-95.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:27:34 :o 21:27:48 jcowan: Am I right in understanding that you are not interested in formal semantics? 21:29:51 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 21:30:01 Quite right. 21:30:15 I have never paid the slightest attention to it in either R5, R6 or R7 21:30:49 they rarely make exciting reading 21:31:06 Alright, so it looks like maybe two or three of us are interested in putting more effort into things, I think. 21:31:10 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:31:26 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:35:54 I think so. So you should get yourself made into a WG (but don't let formal SC approval hold you up) 21:36:15 Do you still agree that the formal semantics should be left out of the R7RS-small document? 21:36:41 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-115.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:21 With the current state of affairs, I can only conclude that any formal semantics we include in R7RS will be laughably embarrassing. 21:37:27 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:27 *jcowan* agrees. 21:37:46 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:52 I do not want that to happen. To me, if we have a bad formal semantics in the standard, that will just hamper efforts to make a better, normative one. 21:38:13 And it will save 3 pages, which actually is a consideration for some people. 21:38:16 We are already at 84 pages. 21:38:19 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-115.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:38:20 Sometime soon I plan to put out a call and get a separate discussion going somewhere. 21:38:59 I suspect that movement on the formal semantics will be necessarily slow because of the efforts that most of us spend on other things, including, but not limited to, WG1 and soon, WG2. 21:38:59 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-180-81.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:39:11 -!- realitygrill [realitygri@nat/hackerschool.com/x-npqrayaouryrotwd] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 21:39:23 Well, you have my total support. I have filed ballot ticket #458 to blow the existing semantics away. 21:39:32 The good news, on some level, is that we have a good body of work to start with. 21:39:38 Yes. 21:39:46 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 21:40:16 Unfortunately, my research grants do not pay me to do Scheme's Formal Semantics. :-) 21:40:41 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:40:51 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 21:42:01 A story: Germany, 1935 21:42:18 cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-30-24.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 21:42:21 A man comes into a room with another man sitting behind a desk. The first man holds a newspaper clipping. 21:42:26 "Well, what's this?" 21:42:26 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-115.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:42:30 "I came about this job." 21:42:33 "Show me that!" 21:42:48 The man behind the desk reads the clipping. 21:43:18 "It says here 'Must be young', and you are over seventy if you're a day." 21:43:28 "It says here 'Must be healthy' and you can barely walk!" 21:43:45 "It says here 'Must be of Aryan origin', and you are obviously a Jew!!" 21:44:24 "SO WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE????" 21:44:32 "Simple," says the old man. 21:44:42 "I just wanted to let you know, that on me you shouldn't depend!" 21:44:52 *FurnaceBoy* groans 21:44:53 And that's how I feel about formal semantics. 21:45:19 lol 21:45:26 ... 21:46:39 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-115.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:47:47 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-249.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 21:47:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-249.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:05 Formal semantics introduced me to "truish"; haven't seen that anywhere else. R5RS talks about "not false" at best, doesn't it? 21:52:39 -!- em is now known as ninkasi 21:56:01 -!- ninkasi is now known as em 21:56:31 Never mind; nothing about "not false." 21:57:24 -!- poisonarms [~poisonarm@cpe-70-116-22-88.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 21:58:12 -!- dzhus [~dzhus@95-25-114-44.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:00:37 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:06:05 realitygrill [realitygri@nat/hackerschool.com/x-tplaurmaspvqrujo] has joined #scheme 22:06:11 -!- realitygrill [realitygri@nat/hackerschool.com/x-tplaurmaspvqrujo] has quit [Client Quit] 22:08:39 sonstwo [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has joined #scheme 22:09:06 -!- ffs [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:09:14 realitygrill [realitygri@nat/hackerschool.com/x-bucjcoprhlagajit] has joined #scheme 22:14:20 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-28-174.dynamic.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 22:15:55 -!- realitygrill [realitygri@nat/hackerschool.com/x-bucjcoprhlagajit] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:20:47 -!- jcowan [~John@p-67-158-180-195.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:35:09 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@233-20-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #scheme 22:35:16 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@233-20-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Client Quit] 22:41:00 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD61715.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:42:06 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:45:16 realitygrill [realitygri@nat/hackerschool.com/x-ftkaqjbfioxivzom] has joined #scheme 22:46:27 -!- realitygrill [realitygri@nat/hackerschool.com/x-ftkaqjbfioxivzom] has quit [Client Quit] 22:50:41 pothos [~pothos@114-25-206-65.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 22:51:42 -!- FRSHPRNCFBLR [~noone@gw-wifi14.cdf.utoronto.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:53:03 -!- kudkudyak [~user@94.72.153.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:56:09 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD61715.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:12 alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD61715.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:56:22 realitygrill [realitygri@nat/hackerschool.com/x-bvtqpcobgrmrdjzv] has joined #scheme 22:58:28 tcleval [~tcleval@177.19.68.58] has joined #scheme 22:59:22 -!- tcleval [~tcleval@177.19.68.58] has quit [Client Quit] 23:06:53 tcleval [~tcleval@177.19.68.58] has joined #scheme 23:07:59 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:09:40 Hi 23:09:52 -!- weirdo [sthalik@kronstadt.misaki.pl] has left #scheme 23:11:12 -!- realitygrill [realitygri@nat/hackerschool.com/x-bvtqpcobgrmrdjzv] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:13:38 -!- choas [~lars@p4FDC48FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:14:02 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.101.47] has joined #scheme 23:15:03 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:19:35 -!- gcartier [~gcartier@modemcable044.80-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:38 -!- bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-48-219-98.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:45:47 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:46:26 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 23:59:55 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r186-52-130-24.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme