00:00:55 dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-183-188.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:04:05 -!- anothervenue [~anotherve@76.91.162.213] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 00:07:40 why oh why isn't there a separate section for reader syntax in r7rs? 00:07:52 it's splattered all over the place 00:08:13 and when writing the reader i have to search for stuff like 00:08:22 radix-reader syntax, etc. 00:17:57 Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-250-130.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:18:17 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 00:18:52 Aethaeryn, there? 00:43:01 TDJACR [~TDJACR@lilug/member/tdjacr] has joined #scheme 00:43:24 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:19 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:49:24 b4284 [~user@122-117-157-82.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 00:55:30 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:02:29 -!- gcartier [~gcartier@modemcable044.80-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:32 zitterbewegung [~user@c-67-163-71-109.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:06:38 -!- zitterbewegung is now known as r2q2 01:06:44 Hi. 01:09:15 Anyone interested in a story I have about an email conversation with john mccarthy 01:09:41 I think I finally understand what he was talking about. 01:10:31 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 01:10:38 Hi Riastradh 01:12:02 elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has joined #scheme 01:15:07 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:15:08 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:21:23 Hi. 01:22:28 Remember a long time ago that I had some emails from John Mccarthy. 01:22:42 Where I asked him about a presentation at ILC called Beyond lisp 01:23:38 I will get the confrence proceedings 01:24:00 I think I finally understand his emails. It just took me 4 years of computer science training. 01:24:04 well more like 6 01:24:34 http://www.international-lisp-conference.org/2005/speakers.html#john_mccarthy 01:24:35 http://tinyurl.com/89ldu49 01:24:54 So his idea was to take an automated theorem prover 01:24:59 and add a large set theory. 01:25:08 Basically a set theory with probably hundreds or thousands of axioms 01:25:16 So that you could do useful things with it 01:26:36 suiqiang [~suiqiang@118.250.94.186] has joined #scheme 01:26:49 http://paste.lisp.org/+2SIY 01:27:02 So his idea was to use set theory. 01:27:18 Now that I have studied category theory I thought to myself: that sounds like a fun topos to make. 01:27:48 Sounds like ACL2. 01:28:03 Yes, in fact the idea is INSPIRED by ACL2. 01:28:49 I think that the email from Mccarthy had another effect. It made me think that I could ask useful questions. 01:28:58 Its a really fond memory of my childhood too. 01:29:38 So, I think that if I were to code this idea of mccarthy I would take like Boyer Moore and reimplement heavy.ax 01:29:46 and use category theory as shortcuts. 01:30:35 When I heard that mccarthy died I felt bad that I didn't do anything about this idea. 01:31:13 Its one thing to know a living legend dieing in an obitiuary. Its quite another when you emailed them a few times. 01:31:46 Anyways, I really just wanted to talk about that story. 01:32:05 Now you have a story to tell your grandkids! 01:32:16 Yea. 01:32:24 Now I have a task that I can do for a few years. 01:32:32 Implementing Mccarthy's final dream. 01:33:21 Its good to talk about this. It really lifts a weight off my chest. 01:37:59 -!- LeoNerd [~leo@cel.leonerd.org.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:35 -!- elliottcable is now known as tees 01:41:35 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-63-124.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:43:43 So, is everyone excited for the leap second on Saturday? 01:45:40 breathless 01:47:57 -!- suiqiang [~suiqiang@118.250.94.186] has left #scheme 01:51:17 I think my heart will lose a second. 01:51:48 Wait I have a date on sunday 01:58:19 -!- TDJACR [~TDJACR@lilug/member/tdjacr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:59:22 TDJACR [~TDJACR@lilug/member/tdjacr] has joined #scheme 02:02:20 -!- imphasing [~Alex@97-81-80-39.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has quit [Quit: YOLO SUCKAS] 02:04:02 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-183-188.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:17:48 arbn [~arbn@pool-74-98-200-128.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:19:37 krfantasy [~krfantasy@123.159.54.224] has joined #scheme 02:21:22 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@c-69-136-24-18.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: EPIC5-1.1.2[1638] - amnesiac : Do the gene pool a service... Add a bucket of chlorine today!] 02:22:53 -!- krfantasy [~krfantasy@123.159.54.224] has left #scheme 02:23:18 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:24:03 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 02:25:33 -!- r2q2 [~user@c-67-163-71-109.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:30:17 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:30:42 realitygrill [~realitygr@ool-18ba55c0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 02:35:01 -!- turbofail [~user@38.99.37.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:35:31 -!- anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:37:23 chu [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 02:37:23 -!- chu [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 02:37:23 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #scheme 02:40:55 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 02:46:01 -!- phao [phao@187.91.102.114] has quit [Quit: Not Here] 02:46:20 -!- micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:49:50 micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has joined #scheme 02:50:25 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:59:08 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:01:25 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 03:03:17 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-falzcevvvjljnaxl] has joined #scheme 03:04:23 phao [phao@177.78.122.5] has joined #scheme 03:05:02 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-falzcevvvjljnaxl] has quit [Client Quit] 03:22:24 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 03:31:55 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 03:37:36 jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:42:15 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:43:15 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 03:43:35 imphasing [~Alex@97-81-80-39.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has joined #scheme 03:44:50 poindontcare [~user@cloudbovina.bovinasancta.com] has joined #scheme 03:52:07 tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:58:30 -!- woonie [~woonie@175.156.195.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:59:53 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-19.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:00:38 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:01:49 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 04:01:57 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-175.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:06:09 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 04:12:27 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #scheme 04:16:43 Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 04:16:56 "Translate the following expression into prefix form" 04:17:07 It's ok to use an editor made for editing Lisps, right? 04:17:14 As in, hilights matching parentheses? 04:17:35 yes 04:17:38 it's a must, actually 04:17:43 I wouldn't ask you to count parentheses if I were your instructor, but I don't know who your instructor is, so... 04:17:52 Riastradh, I'm reading SICP independently 04:18:01 Sgeo, go grab Emacs and paredit 04:18:09 :/ 04:18:16 I'm already using DrRacket with the SICP language 04:18:16 In that case, go for it. 04:18:17 Is that ol? 04:18:20 *ok 04:18:56 Sgeo: why you asking about it? 04:19:24 you read scip independetly and it is your buissness to use tools or not 04:19:34 your own* 04:20:01 Okasu, he thought it's like cheating or something 04:20:18 Sgeo, worry not, everyone in their sane mind use paren-matching 04:21:00 It's not cheating. Gerry doesn't use paredit, but he does use Emacs, and he doesn't worry about counting parentheses any more than any other Lisp hacker does, which is not at all. 04:21:04 I should really check my answers to 1.1 04:22:45 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-63-124.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 04:22:52 -!- arbn [~arbn@pool-74-98-200-128.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:26:17 what do i read in order to be able to implement hygienic macros? 04:26:27 i think my reader is complete, except for , ,@ ` 04:27:27 it smells like unification, but i'm not precisely sure 04:27:31 s/precisely// 04:28:39 arbn [~arbn@pool-74-98-200-128.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:29:04 Start by reading Jonathan Rees's article `Implementing Lexically Scoped Macros' from Lisp Pointers in 1992 or 1993 or so. 04:29:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.58.148] has joined #scheme 04:29:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.58.148] has quit [Changing host] 04:29:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 04:32:07 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196.209.233.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:36:37 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-191-21.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 04:36:39 Riastradh, is there only one ellipsis? 04:36:44 in the expansion, that is 04:37:18 sorry, it totally blows my mind away 04:37:32 Hmm? Expansion of? 04:38:27 Riastradh, of a syntax case 04:40:35 http://paste.lisp.org/display/130283 04:40:44 I think my solution is ugly somehow 04:41:23 Besides using something which I don't think was mentioned at that point (maybe it was, I was reading days ago and only doing exercise now), it feels like that's a repetitive solution 04:41:29 I like your solution, Sgeo. I've seen much uglier ones. The only terser ones I've seen are tricky, and not really clearer. 04:41:57 Sgeo, reduce max? 04:42:00 And I don't think SICP mentioned nested defines like that, but I may be wrong 04:42:06 SICP uses them all the time. 04:42:21 But did it mention it before these exercises? :/ 04:42:35 Sgeo, worry not 04:43:00 Sgeo, could you tell me what this exercise does? 04:43:33 "Define a procedure that takes three numbers as arguments and returns the sum of the squares of the two larger numbers." 04:45:04 your solution seems ok 04:45:38 Thanks 04:47:02 Riastradh, could you please give me something else to read, on macros? it still blows my mind, but i got the basics 04:47:14 is the renaming scheme optimal? 04:47:46 -!- arbn [~arbn@pool-74-98-200-128.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:48:05 what i'm concerned about is how to match the formals to the expansion's ellipsis 04:48:13 there are many possible ways, consider the classic 'my-or' 04:48:23 Forget the pattern language for now; read Jonathan's article. 04:48:26 it just... blows my mind how to write an algorithm capable of all that at the same time 04:48:55 Riastradh, reed's? i somewhat did 04:49:18 ok, another question 04:49:25 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-191-21.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:49:38 do i have to keep track of stuff like => or 'else'? 04:49:58 hmm. 04:50:23 i once read LYAH and it blew my mind with higher-kinded types 04:50:28 but this is even better 04:52:56 Riastradh, i can gensym like there's no tomorrow and do the expansion. but please tell me what to do next, i can't find good papers 04:54:30 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-199-83.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 04:55:23 weirdo: http://readscheme.org/ has pretty much everything you could ever need on this. 04:57:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:05:01 If I try to do SICP and Common Lisp (separately), will I start getting confused between the two languages? 05:05:18 asumu, papers mostly describe how to use them, not how to implement them 05:05:28 some links to useful papers are broken, too 05:05:29 Sgeo: no. They're sufficiently different. 05:05:38 Sgeo: furthermore, you can do the exercises in CL. 05:06:03 Sgeo, you have the REPL at the ready, so any mistakes will be punished by appropriate error messages 05:06:16 http://eli.thegreenplace.net/category/programming/lisp/sicp/ 05:07:23 Sgeo, just don't get all spoiled on LOOP ;-) 05:08:27 Sgeo: In case you consider doing SICP in CL: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1159208/can-i-use-common-lisp-for-sicp-or-is-scheme-the-only-option/1169169#1169169 05:08:28 http://tinyurl.com/7c7k3yc 05:10:45 weirdo: Some of us don't see loop as spoil-inducing... 05:10:55 Is normal-order evaluation the same thing as laziness? 05:11:03 (I have a bit of a Haskell background) 05:12:27 Sgeo: "normal order" is a bad term for something that is sometimes call-by-name and sometimes call-by-need; "laziness" is usually the latter. 05:15:39 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme 05:18:10 Riastradh, i actually implemented my last scheme -> js compiler as an environment of lexical bindings in form lisp-symbol -> js-identifier 05:18:33 i consed up the context with every recursion in the code walker 05:18:45 this seems similar to that rewriting scheme 05:18:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.58.148] has joined #scheme 05:18:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.58.148] has quit [Changing host] 05:18:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 05:22:20 For exercise 1.6, should I assume applicative-order? 05:22:26 anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #scheme 05:22:34 Because there is no problem in normal-order. 05:24:43 Sgeo: Yes, but you should probably think of "call by value" and "call by name" instead because that terminology is weird. 05:39:17 (iirc, "normal order" also reduces under lambdas) 05:40:09 (.. and "applicative order" as well) 05:43:41 ski: reducing under lambdas is never safe... 05:43:52 (lambda (foo) ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)))) 05:43:59 s/never/not always/ 05:44:26 *ski* nods 05:44:26 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@ool-18ba55c0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 05:51:03 jewel [~jewel@196.215.148.118] has joined #scheme 05:52:42 please give me some hint on the pattern language 05:53:45 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 05:53:54 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-98.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 05:57:20 rudybot: give weirdo hint 05:57:20 weirdo: eli has given you a value, say "rudybot: eval (GRAB)" to get it (case sensitive) 06:01:34 rudybot, eval (GRAB) 06:01:34 weirdo: your sandbox is ready 06:01:35 weirdo: ; Value: "Ra helps those who help themselves" 06:03:19 rudybot: advice 06:03:19 minion: advice 06:04:35 *ski* thought it was Kastyke who helps those who help themselves .. 06:09:14 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #scheme 06:09:23 morning 06:24:20 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:35:31 -!- phao [phao@177.78.122.5] has quit [Quit: Not Here] 06:37:15 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.197.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:40:36 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #scheme 06:40:37 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:40:37 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 06:45:35 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:50:27 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 06:55:14 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.148.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:06:19 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:06:19 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d066ae4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:06:19 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:06:19 -!- s_p_a_c_e_d_o_u_ [~bro@128.249.96.10] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:06:19 -!- pyro- [~pyro@unaffiliated/purplepanda] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:06:19 -!- m4burns [~m4burns@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:06:19 -!- spanner [~quassel@128.249.96.10] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:06:19 -!- mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:06:37 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d066ae4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 07:06:57 pyro- [~pyro@chopstick.dcollins.info] has joined #scheme 07:07:30 spanner [~quassel@128.249.96.10] has joined #scheme 07:07:37 s_p_a_c_e_d_o_u_ [~bro@128.249.96.10] has joined #scheme 07:08:15 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:08:41 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-199-83.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:09:06 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 07:09:50 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 07:13:20 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-191-77.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:14:22 LeoNerd [~leo@cel.leonerd.org.uk] has joined #scheme 07:14:25 m4burns [~m4burns@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 07:17:51 what does an ellipsis match? last expression in list? all expressions since a binding? 07:18:10 in the template 07:19:50 "replicate zero or more times" 07:20:00 thanks 07:20:45 how many times depends on which variable having been bound "inside" an ellipsis in the pattern you use 07:21:48 I feel stronger. 07:21:53 Updated my journal. 07:22:38 (is that TR or Torment or what ?) 07:22:54 ski, Torment 07:23:04 i used to do that all the time when friend taught me mathematics 07:23:07 mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 07:33:40 rudybot: eval (define-syntax foo (syntax-rules () ((foo (a b ...) (c d ...) ...) '((a c ...) ((b ...) d ...) ...)))) 07:33:40 ski: Done. 07:33:47 rudybot: eval (foo (a0 a1 a2) (b0 b1 b2) (c0 c1 c2)) 07:33:47 ski: ; Value: ((a0 b0 c0) ((a1 a2) b1 b2) ((a1 a2) c1 c2)) 07:36:14 rudybot, eval (define-syntax foo (syntax-rules () ((foo (a ...) ...) '((a 1 ...) ...))) 07:36:15 weirdo: error: #:1:0: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 07:36:19 rudybot, eval (define-syntax foo (syntax-rules () ((foo (a ...) ...) '((a 1 ...) ...)))) 07:36:20 weirdo: error: #:1:58: syntax: too few ellipses for pattern variable in template at: a in: (quote ((a 1 ...) ...)) 07:36:26 hmm. 07:37:14 `1' doesn't contain a pattern variable bound inside an ellipsis 07:37:30 i just wanted to append it after the a 07:37:32 each `...' only applies to the form immediately preceding it 07:37:38 i see 07:37:46 that explains my pondering 07:38:05 rudybot: eval (define-syntax foo (syntax-rules () ((foo (a ...) ...) '(((a 1) ...) ...))) 07:38:05 ski: error: #:1:0: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 07:38:12 rudybot: eval (define-syntax foo (syntax-rules () ((foo (a ...) ...) '(((a 1) ...) ...)))) 07:38:12 ski: Done. 07:38:37 rudybot: eval (foo (a b c) (d e f) (g h i)) 07:38:37 ski: ; Value: (((a 1) (b 1) (c 1)) ((d 1) (e 1) (f 1)) ((g 1) (h 1) (i 1))) 07:38:50 but what if i wanted (a 1 b 1 c 1 ...)? 07:40:19 rudybot: eval (define-syntax quote-let (syntax-rules () ((quote-let ((?identifier ?expression) ...) ?body ...) '((lambda (?identifier ...) ?body ...) ?expression ...)))) 07:40:19 ski: Done. 07:41:38 rudybot: (quote-let ((el (car lst)) (lst (cdr lst))) (display el) (newline) (bar lst)) 07:41:38 ski: ; Value: ((lambda (el lst) (display el) (newline) (bar lst)) (car lst) (cdr lst)) 07:42:20 weirdo : then ellipsis can't do it -- you'd have to do it explicitly 07:43:03 ok 07:43:05 thank you 07:44:31 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:44:42 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 07:49:16 ski, what if... ,@ `? 07:49:23 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:50:03 `syntax-rules'-macros doesn't use those for constructing code 07:52:00 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-141-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:54:19 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 07:56:37 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-141-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 08:07:34 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-55-240.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:07:41 ski, am i right that it gets complex because ellipsis might not be the last thing on given proper list? 08:07:50 have to match greedily and backtrack? 08:08:41 ASau [~user@95-27-166-36.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 08:09:06 i hope not 08:14:00 -!- ffs [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:20:52 peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 08:22:56 wingo [~wingo@129.pool80-102-203.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #scheme 08:26:15 rudybot, eval (define-syntax foo (syntax-rules () ((foo (a ... b ...) '(a ... b ...))))) 08:26:15 weirdo: error: #:1:19: syntax-rules: bad syntax in: (syntax-rules () ((foo (a ... b ...) (quote (a ... b ...))))) 08:29:14 rudybot, eval (define-syntax foo (syntax-rules () ((foo ((a ... 42) '(a ...))))) 08:29:14 weirdo: error: #:1:0: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 08:29:25 rudybot, eval (define-syntax foo (syntax-rules () ((foo ((a ... 42) '(a ...)))))) 08:29:25 weirdo: error: #:1:19: syntax-rules: bad syntax in: (syntax-rules () ((foo ((a ... 42) (quote (a ...)))))) 08:30:56 poisonarms [~poisonarm@cpe-66-68-80-227.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 08:31:38 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:34:18 ok, i get it. no backtracking. 08:40:53 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-28-174.dynamic.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 08:49:21 Hi 08:49:38 as everyone knows, "i" is commonly used as a loop counter in C and C++ 08:50:05 similarly, are there certain classes of objects that are traditinallly given a certain name in scheme? 08:50:21 also, compare Haskell x:xs which is seen often 08:53:01 there are a number of conventions in the r5s 08:53:03 *r5rs 08:53:26 they are mentioned explicitly in some section that i'm sure you can find :) 08:53:28 http://community.schemewiki.org/?variable-naming-convention 09:08:18 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #scheme 09:19:00 -!- tuubow [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:02 tuubow_ [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:23:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:25:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #scheme 09:34:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-98.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-98.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 09:47:42 -!- b4284 [~user@122-117-157-82.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:48:32 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:56:07 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #scheme 10:08:02 nischayn22 [u5809@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dycittcamzpezbze] has joined #scheme 10:08:29 Hey anyone help me with using scheme on Windows 10:10:20 download racket 10:11:42 wingo: I have downloaded mit-scheme, how to use it? 10:12:11 it seems like a text editor and I don't know how to run programs in it 10:14:24 sorry, can't help you there 10:14:30 find the manual and read it :) 10:14:49 I tried, but didn't get any of it :( 10:15:12 if you could just give a small hint that would be enought 10:15:49 i think you have to go to the *scheme* buffer 10:16:19 how? 10:16:59 I am in the *scheme* buffer I think 10:17:53 I don't see a prompt there, just a cursor 10:18:18 and tehre you can write, eg (+ 1 3) 10:18:44 answer_42: then how to run it? 10:19:02 -!- RITRedbeard__ [~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:19:32 snizzo [~Claudio@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has joined #scheme 10:20:56 RITRedbeard__ [~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:21:54 maybe C-x C-e 10:22:11 yeah, thats it 10:22:30 answer_42: thanks so much 10:22:32 that evaluates the expression left of point 10:22:43 I was not getting that silly thingy 10:23:03 You might wann read that: http://www.gnu.org/software/mit-scheme/documentation/mit-scheme-user/Edwin.html 10:23:03 http://tinyurl.com/yhbeo4v 11:08:55 masm [~masm@bl18-51-45.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 11:16:20 -!- bfgun [~b_fin_g@r190-135-88-242.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:25:05 dropster1 [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #scheme 11:26:46 SN0W [~SN0W@unaffiliated/sn0w] has joined #scheme 11:26:53 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:27:02 dropster2 [~Kim@212.242.116.229] has joined #scheme 11:27:11 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 11:28:58 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:29:25 -!- dropster1 [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:29:38 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r190-135-44-101.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 11:38:13 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 11:43:25 keenbug [~daniel@p4FE39E78.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 11:45:29 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:07:23 I can't get mit-scheme to install. I do ./configure --prefix=/home/me/usr && make && make install, and it returns: http://paste.lisp.org/+2SJ4 12:07:45 (I'm not root on my machine, so I must install to my /home) 12:08:20 Can you show the whole build transcript? Also, what version of MIT Scheme is this, and what tarball did you download? 12:08:38 I downloaded the unix 64 bit from gnu.org 12:08:59 http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mit-scheme/stable.pkg/9.1.1/mit-scheme-9.1.1-x86-64.tar.gz 12:08:59 http://tinyurl.com/6rhl6a7 12:09:13 "unix 64 binary." from http://www.gnu.org/software/mit-scheme/ 12:09:15 wingo_ [~wingo@129.pool80-102-203.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #scheme 12:09:45 -!- wingo [~wingo@129.pool80-102-203.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:10:00 Seems like the compilation step works fine. 12:13:47 dnolen [~user@cpe-69-203-204-197.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:15:38 Can you still show the whole build output? 12:16:07 Riastradh: from the make: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=GWYAtYGk 12:17:42 OK, I'll take a look at it later today. 12:18:07 -!- SN0W [~SN0W@unaffiliated/sn0w] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:18:20 Riastradh: and this is from configure: http://pastebin.com/WecRv20c 12:18:26 Riastradh: thanks. 12:19:37 Also, I saw now when I piped the output to files, that the configure gives a warning: "configure: WARNING: No tparam found; will emulate it from terminfo tparm" probably because I this time ran the command in tmux. 12:19:55 By the way, in the extracted output, is there anything in the src/lib subdirectory? And does the signature on the tarball you downloaded verify? 12:20:16 *impaktor* checks 12:20:41 No, that's fine. It doesn't have to do with the terminal you ran the command in; it has to do with what a brain-damaged mess the whole Unix terminal capability database thing is. 12:21:46 I have a src/lib with some links and a src/lib/lib with some other links. Too non-specific? 12:22:03 Do their targets exist? 12:22:14 Should be some files called runtime.com and all.com. 12:22:14 hm, they're red. 12:22:29 seems like a bad thing. 12:23:31 OK, will take a look later today. *poof* 12:25:33 Nope, the ffi/ffi-test-const.bin, ffi/ffi-test-shim.so, /ffi/ffi-test-types.bin are all missing. As are all target files linked from src/lib/lib. Seems like a probable cause for the problem. 12:26:47 And md5sum is correct for the tar.gz-file I downloaded. 12:29:54 Weird. on my other 64 bit Arch computer I installed it using the AUR script: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/mi/mit-scheme/PKGBUILD and that worked fine. 12:30:07 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:32:38 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:33:08 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 12:42:30 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.197.227] has joined #scheme 12:42:57 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@3ad50e34.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:44:26 -!- sizz [~sizz@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 12:44:40 sizz [~sizz@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 12:49:32 ffs [~garland@unaffiliated/ffs] has joined #scheme 13:00:57 -!- wingo_ is now known as wingo 13:01:36 b4283 [~b4283@122-117-157-82.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 13:02:55 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:04:08 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.197.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:11:46 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:13:37 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 13:17:34 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.222.191] has joined #scheme 13:24:45 -!- b4283 [~b4283@122-117-157-82.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:35 -!- tuubow_ [~adityavit@c-69-136-105-164.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:33:19 b4283 [~user@122-117-157-82.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 13:34:17 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 13:42:59 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@c-71-233-148-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:45:29 i wrote half of a pattern-matcher with ellipsis. could you please take a look at my code and tell me how bad it is? 13:45:41 it doesn't do any renaming or environments yet 13:46:27 http://paste.lisp.org/display/130289 13:49:00 weirdo: you should write some examples/test cases for it. 13:49:28 hkBst, been testing in trusty ol' REPL 13:49:42 oh REPL, we go way back. waaaayyy back. 13:51:03 weirdo: that's good, but it also helps other people to understand what you're trying them to comment on :) 13:51:16 +to get 13:51:43 take a look: 13:51:44 racket@seaking2/ellipsis-patmatch> (begin (display (ellipsis-pattern-match '() '((1 2 3) 4 5 6) '((a ...) b ...) #f)) (newline)) 13:51:47 ((b 4 5 6) (a 1 2 3)) 13:52:08 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 13:52:39 copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has joined #scheme 13:52:50 the working part collects data into variables basing on ellipsis 13:54:09 hkBst, i've read that some popular macroexpanders have incorrect edge cases 13:54:42 need to read some papers... 14:01:58 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:04:27 untrusted [~user@stgt-5f719795.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 14:06:30 -!- dropster2 [~Kim@212.242.116.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:09:02 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 14:11:52 -!- bweaver [~weaver@unaffiliated/bweaver] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 14:12:28 jrslepak [~jrslepak@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 14:15:45 tupi [~david@139.82.89.157] has joined #scheme 14:16:43 snizzo_ [~Claudio@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has joined #scheme 14:16:54 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:17:52 -!- snizzo_ [~Claudio@iglu.cc.uniud.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:00 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 14:22:27 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-69-203-204-197.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 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[~fantazo@91.119.222.191] has joined #scheme 22:16:14 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 22:18:45 phax [~phax@adsl-68-74-59-158.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 22:18:46 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-74-59-158.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:18:46 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 22:23:55 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: .] 22:27:05 weirdo : you noted that one can say `(a ...) ...', yes ? 22:27:16 copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has joined #scheme 22:27:24 ski, yes 22:27:45 ski, i wanted to thank you again for illuminating the behavior of hygienic macros 22:27:48 i have it half-done now 22:28:04 collecting into variables works, now 'just' fill the template 22:28:17 it's very late, but will finish tomorrow 22:28:24 *ski* thinks he didn't do any illumination on the topic of hygienic macros 22:28:36 ski, wasn't it you who said that they collect into variables? 22:28:47 .. maybe a little on ellipsis patterns, though 22:28:53 -!- jrslepak [~jrslepak@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:29:06 i believe my system to be mostly correct now 22:29:44 (but ellipsis patterns is mostly orthogonal to the hygiene issues) 22:30:05 well, that's the part i had problems with 22:30:25 unless it's genetic algorithms, it's fun to learn something by implementing it 22:30:27 :-) 22:30:36 iisjmii [~user@229-240.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #scheme 22:36:45 -!- iisjmii [~user@229-240.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has left #scheme 22:42:28 Sorella [~quildreen@187-127-252-15.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #scheme 22:42:29 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@187-127-252-15.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 22:42:29 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #scheme 22:43:20 -!- poisonarms [~poisonarm@cpe-66-68-80-227.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:44:57 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 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has joined #scheme 23:23:13 phao [phao@177.146.129.109] has joined #scheme 23:29:18 ski: just kudos for all your patient explainin 23:30:01 ok 23:30:35 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-4-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:35:14 chu [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 23:35:15 -!- chu [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 23:35:15 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #scheme 23:35:48 dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-183-188.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:36:56 -!- snizzo_ [~Claudio@host18-237-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:39:39 -!- imphasing is now known as iph 23:49:33 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-28-174.dynamic.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:49:57 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-28-174.dynamic.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 23:54:05 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping 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