00:16:08 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-79-185.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:19:30 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:20:51 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-165-185.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 00:23:01 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-176-157.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:24:38 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-159.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:24:42 arbn [~arbn@pool-74-98-200-128.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:24:54 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-141-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 00:30:10 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-157.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:32:13 visar [~visar@77.29.49.190] has joined #scheme 00:32:55 -!- visar [~visar@77.29.49.190] has left #scheme 01:01:22 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:02:00 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.134.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:09:22 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 01:13:22 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 01:14:54 chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 01:14:54 -!- chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 01:14:54 chu_ [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #scheme 01:15:00 -!- chu_ is now known as chu 01:30:25 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@c-69-136-24-18.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 01:32:44 Robert__ [~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:32:50 arcfide [~arcfide@c-69-136-24-18.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:32:59 -!- Robert__ [~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:33:30 -!- RITRedbeard__ [~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:21 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:36:42 leo2007 [~leo@221.219.118.47] has joined #scheme 01:37:00 -!- bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:59:14 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:02:09 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:06:29 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-165-185.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:10:48 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #scheme 02:11:02 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-179-86.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 02:20:25 -!- Okasu [~okasu@s094127069016.m.truevds.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:29:30 -!- hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:30:00 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 02:32:06 -!- getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:36:04 hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:37:16 -!- b4283 [~user@122-117-157-82.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:24 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 02:39:29 jonathansizz [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:40:13 getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:41:29 b4283 [~user@122-117-157-82.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 02:49:08 Okasu [~okasu@s094127069016.m.truevds.ru] has joined #scheme 02:49:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@221.219.118.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:52:14 Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 02:53:01 Question about SICP: Would it make sense to use an ereader to read SICP away from the comp, and pause for excersizes? As in, are excersizes generally at the end of sections or chapters, or are there interactive bits I should be doing in the middle? 02:54:53 -!- Okasu [~okasu@s094127069016.m.truevds.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:55:33 Okasu [~okasu@s094127069016.m.truevds.ru] has joined #scheme 02:55:41 leo2007 [~leo@123.112.99.115] has joined #scheme 02:56:19 Sgeo: that's what i do , actually. 02:56:37 Sgeo: it's not a perfect system but it's not a perfect world :| 03:06:00 -!- arbn [~arbn@pool-74-98-200-128.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:06:17 phao [phao@177.78.102.178] has joined #scheme 03:10:08 -!- Okasu [~okasu@s094127069016.m.truevds.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:14:45 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-28-174.dynamic.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:23:43 arbn [~arbn@pool-74-98-200-128.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:25:38 Okasu_ [~okasu@s094127069016.m.truevds.ru] has joined #scheme 03:26:49 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:27:21 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 03:36:00 -!- Okasu_ [~okasu@s094127069016.m.truevds.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:53:20 Okasu_ [~okasu@s094127069016.m.truevds.ru] has joined #scheme 03:55:44 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:57:29 -!- Okasu_ is now known as Okasu 04:12:32 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.194.8] has joined #scheme 04:22:21 weirdo [sthalik@kronstadt.misaki.pl] has joined #scheme 04:22:22 hey 04:22:32 are global function bindings mutable? 04:23:12 Those that you make yourself, yes. 04:23:30 thank you 04:24:07 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-50-131-15-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:39:13 -!- anothervenue [~anotherve@76.91.162.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:39:53 githogori [~githogori@c-50-131-15-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:40:36 anothervenue [~anotherve@76.91.162.213] has joined #scheme 04:44:35 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:46:20 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:20:21 -!- phao [phao@177.78.102.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:21:17 phao [phao@177.78.102.178] has joined #scheme 05:24:19 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:35:17 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 05:35:45 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:37:07 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #scheme 05:37:37 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-105-73-50.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:38:47 -!- phao [phao@177.78.102.178] has quit [Quit: Not Here] 05:54:33 -!- getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:54:44 -!- jonathansizz [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:54:55 -!- hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:14:48 mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has joined #scheme 06:16:03 phao [phao@177.78.102.178] has joined #scheme 06:16:28 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-78.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:21:50 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-179-86.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:21:58 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.112.99.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:25:15 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 06:26:04 madmuppet006 [~chatzilla@122-62-124-247.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 06:26:59 leppie [~lolcow@196.209.233.21] has joined #scheme 06:34:59 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:40:23 how would I go about writing a cond procedure? 06:48:32 You can't write it as a procedure. You have to use macros (define-syntax ...) 06:52:36 answer_42: thanks for the info .. 06:53:13 http://people.csail.mit.edu/jaffer/r5rs_9.html 07:00:00 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:03:08 -!- arbn [~arbn@pool-74-98-200-128.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:04:40 -!- phao [phao@177.78.102.178] has quit [Quit: Not Here] 07:11:43 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@c-69-136-24-18.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: EPIC5-1.1.2[1638] - amnesiac : Zzzz] 07:24:35 jewel [~jewel@196.215.148.118] has joined #scheme 07:29:44 corani [~yaaic@119.80.86.239] has joined #scheme 07:37:08 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:49:30 -!- corani [~yaaic@119.80.86.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:51:49 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-176-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:12:13 peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #scheme 09:01:50 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.148.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:03:58 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196.209.233.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:07:46 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-106-209.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:20:36 -!- madmuppet006 [~chatzilla@122-62-124-247.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]] 09:23:37 snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 09:49:28 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-106-209.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:54:08 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-106-209.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:11:13 snizzo_ [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 10:14:16 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:25:37 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-106-209.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:29:37 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-165-169.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:44:40 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-165-169.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:47:21 snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 10:49:21 -!- snizzo_ [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:49:53 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-106-209.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:54:50 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD61352.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 11:00:18 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r190-135-26-47.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 11:00:18 -!- bfig [~b_fin_g@r190-135-17-82.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00:50 arbn [~arbn@pool-74-98-200-128.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 11:01:58 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:04:33 ASau` [~user@95-28-55-240.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 11:05:47 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-25-120.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:06:57 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:07:04 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 11:12:44 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-157.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:15:27 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-176-157.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:17:41 tdammers [~tobias@212-182-150-105.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #scheme 11:24:24 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.50.67] has joined #scheme 11:26:56 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-176-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:28:31 Sorella [~quildreen@189-12-93-5.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #scheme 11:28:31 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@189-12-93-5.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 11:28:31 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #scheme 11:31:41 wingo [~wingo@89.131.176.233] has joined #scheme 11:32:31 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.194.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:38 masm [~masm@bl18-60-124.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 11:40:24 fgq [~fgq@110.52.62.11] has joined #scheme 12:31:34 RITRedbeard__ [~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:35:48 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD61352.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:38:48 -!- masm [~masm@bl18-60-124.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:38:51 -!- wingo [~wingo@89.131.176.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:44:29 -!- ssbr_ [~ssbr@python/site-packages/ssbr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:45:00 ssbr_ [~ssbr@python/site-packages/ssbr] has joined #scheme 12:52:23 -!- ssbr_ [~ssbr@python/site-packages/ssbr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:55:37 keenbug [~daniel@79.219.110.142] has joined #scheme 13:00:12 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-160.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:02:13 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:03:05 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-28-174.dynamic.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 13:06:31 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.50.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 13:16:00 -!- arbn [~arbn@pool-74-98-200-128.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:18:42 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-160.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:20:08 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-173-160.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:23:08 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-160.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:31:05 getpwnam [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 13:31:10 jonathansizz [~ian@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 13:31:55 hash_table [~quassel@70-138-242-181.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 13:39:06 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.172.244.60] has joined #scheme 13:39:07 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.172.244.60] has quit [Changing host] 13:39:07 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has joined #scheme 13:41:06 ijp [~user@host31-53-168-51.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 13:46:04 snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 14:02:16 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-106-209.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:04:52 tupi [~david@177.31.66.32] has joined #scheme 14:06:04 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:15:43 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:19:47 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-234.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:24:15 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-234.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:29:13 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-106-209.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:31:11 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-160.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:31:22 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-173-160.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 14:33:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-78.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:33:38 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-106-209.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:36:24 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 14:38:29 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 14:38:39 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-234.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:38:56 snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 14:43:13 -!- fgq [~fgq@110.52.62.11] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:00:27 visar [~visar@77.29.157.247] has joined #scheme 15:01:01 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:01:08 -!- visar [~visar@77.29.157.247] has left #scheme 15:01:10 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-143-234.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:02:05 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 15:04:56 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:08:05 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #scheme 15:11:30 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.217.91] has joined #scheme 15:15:29 covi [~covi@221.237.45.29] has joined #scheme 15:15:39 Hi all. How to install the scheme platform on Linux? 15:16:55 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:19:09 kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has joined #scheme 15:20:02 covi: Ther is nothink like THE scheme platform. 15:20:59 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-165-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:21:30 You have to choose an implemantation(chicken, mit-scheme, gambit, guile etc), and that would be something you could install 15:26:33 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.50.67] has joined #scheme 15:26:56 phao [phao@187.91.248.223] has joined #scheme 15:29:33 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:30:02 jewel [~jewel@196.215.148.118] has joined #scheme 15:32:02 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-165-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:36:43 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:41:55 -!- covi [~covi@221.237.45.29] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:42:45 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:44:00 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #scheme 15:49:09 icrazyhack [horieyui@202.120.202.55] has joined #scheme 15:57:43 -!- tupi [~david@177.31.66.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:55 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 16:12:51 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-160.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:15:07 -!- Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:16:22 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4dbecbd2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:16:37 -!- icrazyhack [horieyui@202.120.202.55] has quit [Quit: http://www.cnblogs.com/crazyhack] 16:18:37 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4dbed510.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 16:28:33 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-160.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:00:55 -!- kk` [~kk@unaffiliated/kk/x-5380134] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:07:04 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:09:12 -!- woonie [~woonie@175.156.195.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:14:19 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 17:16:19 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-173-160.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:26:06 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-50-131-15-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:20 githogori [~githogori@c-50-131-15-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:37:14 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.217.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:13 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@fsf/member/vu3rdd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:15 add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-32-128.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 17:53:03 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #scheme 17:58:31 Giomancer [~Gio@adsl-76-231-35-17.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:59:30 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-32-128.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 17:59:42 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:35 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-160.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:06:17 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-173-160.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Bye] 18:06:44 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:11:56 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-156-115.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:17:57 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 18:25:05 kudkudyak [~user@94.72.169.69] has joined #scheme 18:25:42 turbofail [~user@99-121-57-65.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:26:08 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-156-115.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:26:24 Suthe [~Suthe@113.Red-83-33-81.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:26:31 peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 18:30:54 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-156-58.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:34:50 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 18:34:53 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-28-174.dynamic.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:35:23 snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 18:36:57 arcfide [~arcfide@c-69-136-24-18.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:39:56 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-156-58.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:44:48 Sorella_ [~quildreen@201-58-229-66.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #scheme 18:44:56 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-156-58.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:45:45 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:51:05 -!- Giomancer [~Gio@adsl-76-231-35-17.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY.SYS Corrupted: Re-boot universe? (Y/N/Q)] 18:56:36 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-28-174.dynamic.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 18:59:08 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-156-58.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:03:34 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:03:53 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-156-58.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:08:04 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@c-69-136-24-18.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: EPIC5-1.1.2[1638] - amnesiac : WHAT? THE ROOF IS ON FIRE?] 19:10:18 -!- Sorella_ is now known as Sorella 19:10:55 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-156-58.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:11:08 arcfide [~arcfide@c-69-136-24-18.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:12:48 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:13:05 snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 19:14:59 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:17:03 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:18:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-241.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 19:19:31 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:23:53 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:37:23 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:38:27 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: ltz] 19:43:17 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:47:25 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:47:58 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-156-58.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:50:30 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.148.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:57:08 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-156-58.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:01:59 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:09:50 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:10:51 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 20:14:11 dzhus [~dzhus@95-24-90-166.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 20:18:42 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:19:23 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #scheme 20:19:31 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:19:38 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:25:29 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-156-58.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:30:33 teurastaja [~chatzilla@modemcable168.103-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:31:24 how could i insert an element after each element of a list? 20:32:23 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-156-58.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:32:59 because the tail-recursive version of a consing algorithm needs to reverse the resulting list 20:34:12 rudybot: (require srfi/1) 20:34:13 ijp: Done. 20:34:20 rudybot: (define (insert-after x list) (fold-right (lambda (a o) (cons a (cons x o))) '() list)) 20:34:20 ijp: Done. 20:34:35 rudybot: (insert-after 'foo '(bar baz quux)) 20:34:35 ijp: ; Value: (bar foo baz foo quux foo) 20:35:11 that's one way to do it 20:37:07 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:38:21 i didnt think about fold... 20:38:34 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:38:36 *fold-right 20:38:42 nobody expects the Spanish fold! 20:39:21 rudybot: do they? 20:39:22 qu1j0t3: ny times announces they will start charging in 2011 20:41:23 teurastaja: functional programming is like origami, it's all about the folding and unfolding 20:41:49 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:50 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 20:49:45 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:54:22 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-156-58.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:54:58 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-160.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:31 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-160.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:59:06 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:01:40 -!- teurastaja [~chatzilla@modemcable168.103-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:09:19 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-156-58.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:09:19 -!- ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:10:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-241.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:02 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 21:18:37 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:19:05 ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #scheme 21:22:23 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:23:28 leppie [~lolcow@196.215.142.213] has joined #scheme 21:24:07 ijp: if you want to have fun folding, try Rubic's Magic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubik%27s_Magic 21:24:08 -!- ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:25:28 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.217.91] has joined #scheme 21:27:16 ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #scheme 21:37:55 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196.215.142.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:38:41 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:45 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD61352.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:42:24 leppie [~lolcow@196.215.142.213] has joined #scheme 21:48:38 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196.215.142.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:53:21 leppie [~lolcow@196.215.142.213] has joined #scheme 21:53:42 snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 21:57:47 -!- keenbug [~daniel@79.219.110.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:04:08 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 22:06:06 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:10:56 phao_ [phao@177.146.137.171] has joined #scheme 22:12:24 -!- phao [phao@187.91.248.223] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:18 -!- phao_ [phao@177.146.137.171] has quit [Client Quit] 22:16:34 -!- RITRedbeard__ [~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:23 RITRedbeard__ [~RITReadbe@c-68-37-165-37.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:29:48 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #scheme 22:30:46 What does scheme use to translate '(foo) into (quote (foo)) or vice versa? 22:31:32 the parser, it's just sugar. 22:31:55 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196.215.142.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:36:00 leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-41.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 22:37:04 -!- snizzo [~Claudio@net-188-216-157-51.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:45 pawan [~pawan@adsl-68-74-59-158.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 22:39:02 -!- pawan [~pawan@adsl-68-74-59-158.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:40:19 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-209-224-41.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:40:32 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 22:43:10 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD61352.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:44:44 What's a good standards-compliant Scheme? I'm going to be writing my own Scheme interpreter, so I need something to test in to compare. 22:45:09 i.e. I don't care if it's full of features. In fact, features might get in the way unless it has a compatibility mode. 22:45:40 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 22:48:22 racket is usually pretty faithful in it's standards specific mods 22:48:25 *modes 22:49:58 qu1j0t3: s/parser/reader/ 22:50:22 qu1j0t3: Most times when I hear people talk about "parsing" Scheme, usually it's because they've gone off to la-la-land. 22:54:33 Most other languages call it a parser 22:54:42 Aethaeryn: scheme doesn't use anything for that. It's just implemented in it. 22:55:04 phao [phao@187.91.182.194] has joined #scheme 22:55:23 LeoNerd: It doesn't matter what other languages call it. Other languages don't have a cleanly separated concept of reader vs compiler vs evaluator. 22:55:41 Aethaeryn: the r5rs standard is so small that all scheme implementations do cimply with it very much. 22:55:44 LeoNerd: In Lisp-like languages, reading and evaluating are very, very distinct processes. 22:55:47 Sure 22:55:47 s/cimply/comply 22:56:00 And people calling it a "parser" instead could simply be a conflation of names 22:56:17 It's possible to understand a concept and still occasionally use the wrong word for it because most other situations us a different word :) 22:56:19 pjb: Is there some issue with r6rs and r7rs? 22:56:20 In Common Lisp, it's a reader macro (and standard one) that reads '(foo) into (quote (foo)). 22:56:28 pjb: Very nice. :-) 22:56:41 Aethaeryn: well, let's ignore r6rs, and wait for the definitive version of r7rs. 22:57:13 So r5rs is what Schemes tend to implement? 22:57:15 pjb: I disagree, a huge number of "scheme" implementations aren't compliant 22:58:00 one particular offender *cough*kawa*cough* isn't even properly tail recursive by default 22:58:17 Aethaeryn: There are, to my knowledge, more R5RS implementations than R6RS implementations, by a fairly big margin. 22:58:32 Aethaeryn: Given R6RS has been out for 5 years now, it can't simply be due to R6RS being "too new". 22:58:37 cky: Is that just due to age or do people not like r6rs... oh 22:58:48 well it was "too new" and then the excuse was "no one implements it" 22:59:09 then "oh but r7rs is coming out soon anyway" 22:59:09 ijp: Except nobody said that about R5RS. 22:59:26 ijp: R7RS was a reaction to R6RS's...controversiality. 22:59:53 (in part) 22:59:59 cky: it would be significantly less controversial people actually read it 23:00:42 The current r7rs draft isn't too bad... only 81 pages 23:00:46 Perhaps. But...what people are used to with R5RS and before, R6RS definitely has the character of tl;dr. 23:01:14 I'm not saying that that's the only reason it's controversial. 23:01:24 people are also used to not programming to the r5rs 23:01:24 Just responding to your comment about "if only people read it". 23:01:41 jcowan [~John@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 23:02:01 cky: as I've pointed out many times before, the two most common reactions to the r6rs are "it sucks" and "i haven't read it", and the overlap between the two is staggering 23:02:02 -!- bfgun [~b_fin_g@r190-135-26-47.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:02:09 hmm, r5rs is only 50 23:02:22 ijp: Don't confuse correlation with causation. 23:02:26 bfgun [~b_fin_g@r190-135-85-157.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 23:02:38 ijp: Some people may have started reading it, realised it sucks, and stopped. Or maybe the two are not even causative at all. 23:02:57 no, the causation tends to be: I use $foo, $foo's implementor says it sucks, therefore it sucks QED 23:03:52 ijp: If R6RS is so great, then R7RS would be very similar to R6RS, right? But that's not what's happening. 23:04:01 ijp: I think Scheme's one of the few major languages that people can read through the entire standard to say that it sucks or not. The current *draft* (i.e. they'll probably add to it) for ecmascript 6 is 334 pages! 23:04:04 hoi 23:04:09 jcowan: o/ 23:04:31 cky: that's a historically inaccurate assessment 23:04:50 Aethaeryn: That's partly because of all the Knuth-style algorithms in ES6, or have they removed those? 23:05:09 jcowan: Idk, I looked at it and thought "tl;dr" :-P 23:05:21 And then was glad that I don't have to write a web browser. 23:05:35 Right. Of course, HTML5 is huuuuuuuge. 23:05:44 cky: by similar logic, if the r5rs was so great, I wouldn't be complaining about the fact no-one writes to it 23:06:11 and the fact that many implementation (even popular ones) aren't compliant 23:06:12 jcowan: Another problem with web standards is that they might never be fully implemented. By the time that they get close, they'll just make a new version and lobby for things that never got implemented to be removed. 23:06:22 So, yeah, big standards can be a problem. 23:06:33 It's called "the game of shifting standards" 23:06:43 it gives people with first-mover advantage an impossible lead 23:08:42 It's kind of a good thing that Scheme-in-the-browser never happened. Imagine how ugly and huge r7rs would be if JavaScript were a Scheme as originally intended! 23:09:02 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:09:12 Aethaeryn: Eh, DSSSL used some variant of Scheme and it didn't fuglify Scheme. 23:09:20 yeah, for one it would be terrible if scheme had a standard library 23:09:47 and don't get me started on portable error conditions, who the hell wants that 23:09:59 r7rs Appendix A: Standard Libraries 23:10:12 Aethaeryn: the r7rs's standard library is a joke 23:10:18 as is the r5rs's 23:10:40 *LeoNerd* wonders if a string-reverse exists yet 23:10:59 LeoNerd: SRFI 13 probably has one. 23:11:01 *cky* checks. 23:11:09 Well that's likely good enough 23:11:37 Yeah, in Scheme, much useful functionality live in SRFIs. 23:12:47 Kinda like Perl + CPAN then perhaps? 23:13:01 LeoNerd: that comparison is insulting to perl 23:13:08 Heh.. perhaps 23:13:44 But the idea at least is similar... keep the core language small and minimal, and a standard wellknown location for library extensions 23:14:01 LeoNerd: I wish SRFIs were more like CPAN. But no. 23:14:06 Ahh 23:14:26 LeoNerd: Implementations implement SRFIs usually as built-in libraries. 23:14:27 arbn [~arbn@pool-74-98-200-128.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:14:39 Ahhh 23:14:43 By built-in, I mean bundled with the implementation, not necessarily that it's written in C or something. 23:14:53 Ohright 23:14:53 Many SRFIs are actually implemented as Scheme code. 23:14:55 Hrmmmm... 23:15:00 OK that's not really CPANlike then 23:15:15 -!- phao [phao@187.91.182.194] has left #scheme 23:15:21 phao [phao@187.91.182.194] has joined #scheme 23:15:32 leppie [~lolcow@196.215.142.213] has joined #scheme 23:15:45 There is talk about creating a CPAN-like thing for R7RS. 23:16:20 Many implementations have their own implementation-specific CPAN. Racket has PLaneT, Chicken has Eggs Unlimited, Guile will soon have Guildhall, etc. 23:16:28 Guildhall??! 23:16:29 Hah 23:16:31 $20 says it goes the way of scm-pkg 23:16:36 sounds like r7rs release is going to be a big event 23:16:41 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.217.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:48 ijp: ? 23:16:52 exactly 23:17:16 7 seems to be where it's at. Scheme 7, Java 7.. 23:17:25 Perl are lagging behind on 5 or 6 though :P 23:17:27 Windows 7. :-P 23:17:37 Though Windows 8 is coming out soon. 23:18:08 jcowan: whats the time from for large ooc? 2 years? more? 23:18:24 er, time frame 23:19:38 I think we are going to go with a "rolling release" process, where packages are released gradually. 23:19:54 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 23:19:57 that makes some sense 23:20:00 e.g. SRFI 1 has already been blessed, so it will require only stylistic changes to become part of R7RS-large. 23:20:17 How large is r7rs-large? 23:20:33 Aethaeryn: I'm told ~100 packages or so 23:21:40 -!- mmc2 [~michal@178-85-66-32.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:22:01 Currently we have 67 approved packages, 33 more in the input hopper 23:22:06 so yeah 23:22:06 Google's not really providing current data, but it looks like r7rs-large will *start* when r7rs-small is *finished* http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/10/04/1942209/r7rs-scheme-progress-report 23:22:06 http://tinyurl.com/3rdvj46 23:22:10 So... a long time. 23:22:28 The only thing WG2 has done so far is to bless those 67 packags 23:22:37 and some proposals have been written for a good many of them 23:22:57 jcowan: The packages are written in r7rs-small, though, right? So you could just drop them in as-is? 23:23:13 Not always. 23:23:13 I need to eventually take the time to write up the extended version of my rant 23:23:18 ijp: Please do 23:23:35 How about taking the time to write up the working code version of your rant, ijp? 23:23:45 Aethaeryn: Some of them can't be written portably in r7rs-small, e.g. the extended file, TCP socket, and UDP socket packages. 23:24:06 `TCP socket and UDP socket packages'? 23:24:23 I know that's a bugbear of yours, but that's what the WG voted for. 23:25:15 In any case, a *real* Posix binding would have 1100+ APIs and maybe 100 object types. It's a huge job. 23:25:29 s/object/opaque object 23:26:23 Riastradh: supposing I were to, say, write portable exceptions for the half dozen most popular scheme implementations, I still don't genuinely believe people would use them 23:26:47 jcowan: But they're at least sufficiently modular for someone *else* to be able to write? :-P 23:26:49 the racket community is a good example of that 23:27:09 Aethaeryn: So I hope 23:27:40 About 15 are blessings of specific pre-existing specs, so they need only editorial work 23:27:43 Riastradh: from the looks of things, I can barely even convince people that the lack of portability is a problem 23:27:52 the other 50-80 will need to be specified in details. 23:28:00 ijp: It's primarily a problem for library authors. 23:29:24 ijp: It depends on the goal of the particular implementation 23:29:45 ijp: My stance on the whole topic: http://stackoverflow.com/a/11066232/13 23:30:14 yes, you have told me it many time 23:30:18 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196.215.142.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:31:02 cky: yes i was tempted to write reader... my bad. 23:31:05 but as long as we are going to pretend there is a scheme standard, I'm going to keep disagreeing with it 23:31:11 Wikipedia treats Racket as "a language in the Lisp/Scheme family": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racket_%28programming_language%29 23:31:36 Contrast with how they treat something like, e.g., SBCL ("a free Common Lisp implementation") 23:31:46 Aethaeryn: Scheme : Racket :: Kerberos : Microsoft Kerberos. :-P 23:32:10 Not to say that Racket is a Microsoft product. 23:32:25 But, it's fair to say that there is a fair amount of lock-in in the Racket ecosystem. 23:33:37 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 23:33:49 I'm not even sure I should call my language (that will most likely go absolutely nowhere at all, since it's just a way for me to learn and experiment) a Scheme, since that kind of implies that I should focus on being an implementation rather than a language. 23:34:23 Call it Experimental Language 42. 23:34:32 Aethaeryn: So what is your language trying to accomplish that Scheme (or another Lisp dialect) doesn't? 23:35:13 cky: It's going to be aimed at in-browser deployment (i.e. written in JavaScript and compilable to JavaScript). Yes, it's most likely been done half a dozen times before because Scheme is small and simple. 23:35:30 (Especially since there's a Common Lisp subset, which is presumably harder, that exists, too.) 23:35:34 Aethaeryn: So, basically, CoffeeScript with S-expressions. ;-) 23:35:40 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 23:35:41 s/half a dozen/more than a few dozen/ 23:36:07 The main difference is that I'm going to attempt to use it to write HTML 5 games. So it will actually have to perform well and use clever tricks/libraries. 23:36:26 Instead of just being an academic exercise. 23:36:44 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.50.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 23:36:49 Aethaeryn: Like I said. CoffeeScript with S-expressions. :-P 23:36:52 This is why I'm being extremely cautious about it, because there's about 20 ways for it to fail. 23:37:38 cky: Exactly. I'm actually going to allow some direct JavaScript S-expressions as well, closer to CoffeeScript with the almost 1-1 translatability. 23:38:18 Something like this: (js-object ("key" . "value goes here") ("foo" . (js-array "this" is" "an" "array"))) 23:38:31 Except right now it's only aiming at the (much easier) JSON 23:39:37 cky: The main reason I'm doing this is because I absolutely hate the aesthetics of Java-style syntax, and it's really getting in the way of me taking JavaScript (the language I have to use in the browser) seriously. 23:39:47 So, purely selfish and I expect no one else to use it. 23:41:11 I'm actually considering using a macro system powerful enough that I can rewrite (js-object) and (js-array) into an intermediate syntax for concise writing, since it will probably be used often. Hence, my inquiry about (quote) 23:41:40 Something like this perhaps: {("key" . "value goes here") ("foo" . ["this" "is" "an" "array"])} 23:42:24 Is this a terrible idea that will come back to hurt me later on? 23:43:15 Scheme doesn't define {} or [] to mean anything so far... some implementations repurpose them for themselves.. 23:43:32 :) 23:43:56 [] is frequently used as synonyms for (); it's acceptability is up for debate 23:43:59 *its 23:44:06 R6RS defines [] to mean () 23:44:12 R5RS/R7RS don't 23:44:12 Oh 23:44:36 some people love it, some people hate it, though you can find it in papers from over 20 years ago 23:45:02 I always liked Interlisp-style brackets: ] closes as many )s as necessary (and vice versa) 23:45:29 As a C/Perl programmer I do quite like {...} being used to delimit big chunks of code, like entire functions or lambda expressions 23:45:34 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-11-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:45:52 I'm tentatively calling this project Scheme Script and the subset of JavaScript I'm aiming at first SSON (Scheme Script Object Notation) 23:46:17 And it's not going to be that pure because I'll probably need to do messy-hacks like translating (this-stuff) to thisStuff in variable names when calling JavaScript 23:48:07 Aethaeryn: JRuby already does this sort of translation for Java classes. 23:48:20 Ah, good. 23:48:21 (SchemeScript was the name of the Eclipse plugin at one point.) 23:48:36 i.e., a method named fooBarBazQux would be accessible under the name foo_bar_baz_qux in JRuby code. 23:48:37 how about just Schript ! 23:48:44 lol 23:48:50 *qu1j0t3* expects it will offend germans 23:49:02 I'm not sure I should actually have Scheme in the name, though, since the JavaScript compatability and in-browser nature will likely make it heavily incompatible. 23:49:03 Überscript 23:49:23 LeoNerd: All ur parentheses are belong to us 23:49:33 That would have to be Schrift 23:49:37 jcowan: quite 23:49:53 I just ran '[a b c] through my 45 Schemes 23:50:08 45?? 23:50:38 I thought people didn't use the []s 23:50:54 phao: it's a love hate thing. 23:51:08 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:51:15 leppie [~lolcow@196.215.142.213] has joined #scheme 23:51:16 phao: there are the lutherans and the papists on this 23:51:26 I haven't made a detailed report yet, but there are five basic outcomes: (a b c), [a (and blow up on undefined b and c), syntax error, #(a b c), and in Kawa it's ($bracket-list$ a b c). 23:51:37 hah 23:51:41 I always used ()'s only 23:51:56 LeoNerd: cowan@pubuntu:~$ schemes 23:51:56 For Scheme, try racket, gosh, mit-scheme, gsi, csi -R numbers, bigloo, scheme48, scsh, guile, kawa --output-format readable-scheme, sisc, chibi -Mscheme.base, scm -m, petite, vicare, larceny, ypsilon, mosh, iron, nexj, stklos, ksi, sscm, shoe, tinyscheme, s9, dream, rs, s7, bdc, xlisp, rep, schemik, elk, umb-scheme, vx-scheme, oaklisp, llava, sxi, sizzle, spark, /opt/femtolisp/femtolisp/flisp, dfsch-repl, inlab, ol 23:52:42 "mine" in the sense that I have them available, not in the sense that I wrote them, obviously 23:52:47 Heh.. nice 23:52:59 I'll point you at mine when I have enough of it online :) Make it 46 23:53:14 Well, technically, you could easily write 45 schemes in about 90-365 days. 23:53:21 I'm sure you'd get faster as you go along. 23:53:34 The trick woould be to think up enough differences. 23:53:51 I strongly suspect that after the first dozen or so you would lose the perspective necessary to differentiate them. 23:53:53 As the man says, it's not that it *takes* all kinds, it's that we *have* all kinds. 23:54:03 gnomon: exactly 23:54:11 jcowan, get outta my head, you! 23:54:18 (also, hullo!) 23:54:29 And hey ho to you too. 23:54:58 phao: I think even people that use [] only use it in restricted ways, like around a cond-clause or case-lambda-clause 23:55:28 jcowan: so is [] bad or not? 23:55:51 Aethaeryn: it sounds like you're not trying to be compliant with anything, so imho : go nuts. 23:56:13 hmm 23:56:15 A matter of taste. 23:56:17 qu1j0t3: Oh, it *cannot* be compliant anyway since the browser is sandboxed from certain things. 23:56:27 I suppose a node.js version could handle it. 23:56:33 Aethaeryn: i mean syntactically. i see no reason not to make your syntax as convenient as possible. 23:56:35 Aethaeryn, I think some people find that it helps making sense of where things are. 23:56:44 in making sense* 23:57:07 We tried to factor R7RS-small so that people can comply even if there's a lot their implementation language/environment can't provide. 23:57:41 -!- b4283 [~user@122-117-157-82.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:57:43 Who knows, you could have the first R7RS-small implementation with (scheme base) only. 23:57:55 Aethaeryn, be guided by the principle of least surprise. Is your intended audience JavaScripters looking to try a little Scheme? Keep that in mind. Are you trying to drag Schemers into the browser? Play to their expectations. 23:57:55 which is smaller than R5RS 23:58:05 Aethaeryn, or merely please yourself! 23:58:17 gnomon: Well put again 23:58:34 jcowan: do you have a link to your srfi spreadsheet? 23:58:38 hmmm, you know, no one has evver seen us in the same place! 23:58:47 *gnomon* winks 23:58:56 *qu1j0t3* blinks 23:59:01 http://tinyurl.com/scheme-s5 23:59:02 *gnomon* stinks 23:59:08 Has anyone ever seen you in different places? 23:59:19 gnomon: Well, it seems like [] and {} aren't *too* common, and Schemers can just use (js-object) and (js-array) instead of {} and [] if they prefer. 23:59:44 Riastradh: I don't know, I'm sure. I know you've seen me; have you seen gnomon? 23:59:46 I guess the issue with SSON is that it needs to seem as elegant as JSON and the macros would be able to do it, in fact it would arguably be better without the commas. 23:59:53 jcowan: thank you